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	re ] I am new to writing articles, and I would appreciate a little more guidance. You ask for more reference. I listed 23. You don't think that is enough? Are there specific parts that you feel are deficient? Thx ] (]) 02:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)		re ] I am new to writing articles, and I would appreciate a little more guidance. You ask for more reference. I listed 23. You don't think that is enough? Are there specific parts that you feel are deficient? Thx ] (]) 02:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
			:Copied to appropriate place. ''] ]'', <small>02:57, 19th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).</small><br />
	Thanks for leaving a message. Rich Farmbrough-->
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			:{{tick\|18}} Answered on user's talk page. ''] ]'', <small>02:57, 19th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).</small><br />

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I will generally answer here. R.F. Warning: a therefore can become a wherefore (George Orwell)

IMPORTANT. Due to the volume on this talk page I archive semi-manually, a 2 day archive time is not fast enough to keep it clear and a is too fast to allow me to deal with every thread completely. If you feel that a thread has been archived too soon please copy it back here and note that you have done so both on the thread both on archive and here. Thanks. RF

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About bots and categories - clarify request

Conversation - actions required.
I brought this up at wp:ani but it's not that relevant. (Fine details of sort are important, but not my main point, I think we can live with any alphabetical ordering - especially when cat contents tend to group similar items anyway..). The issue is that your bot (and others?) appears to be acting only on recent or new pages (based on experience). It would be reassuring to know that this bot or another bot is applying the changes systematically starting at Aardvark and working up to Xylophone.. Does the bot do that ?, and if not can there be one please (I think I explained why at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Minor_technical_question). Just mark this section "done" if the issue is definitely already addressed, and a solution exists and has been implemented. Thanks.Sf5xeplus (talk) 16:21, 1 October 2010 (UTC) Well - yes and no. I have a BRFA for diacritics in biographies, and I have done all those pages. I did have a plan to do exactly what you suggest - and not just for diacritics - and for the excellent reason that starting at Aardvark means not breaking any ordering as you go through (if I remember correctly) but there was one extremely vociferous critic that sapped the energy out of the whole thing - believe it or not you can't change a space on WP without someone objecting - possibly me! However: what would be possible, if a little hard, would be to do it on a category by category basis: automatically identifying categories where an "out of order" (lets call it an O3) occurs and correcting all members. And of course setting default sorts for pages with diacritics only would also probably be acceptable. Rich Farmbrough, 16:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC). ok thanks. I'll be back (or get Yobot to fix it) if a similar problem occurs; now I've mentioned the probably of that becomes infinitely unlikely. Problem not resolved, but probably solved. As for systematic bot A to Z diacritic work - maybe wait a bit and suggest again. I can supply +1 !vote.Sf5xeplus (talk) 17:00, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Conversation - actions required.

I brought this up at wp:ani but it's not that relevant. (Fine details of sort are important, but not my main point, I think we can live with any alphabetical ordering - especially when cat contents tend to group similar items anyway..). The issue is that your bot (and others?) appears to be acting only on recent or new pages (based on experience). It would be reassuring to know that this bot or another bot is applying the changes systematically starting at Aardvark and working up to Xylophone..

Does the bot do that ?, and if not can there be one please (I think I explained why at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Minor_technical_question). Just mark this section "done" if the issue is definitely already addressed, and a solution exists and has been implemented. Thanks.Sf5xeplus (talk) 16:21, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Well - yes and no. I have a BRFA for diacritics in biographies, and I have done all those pages. I did have a plan to do exactly what you suggest - and not just for diacritics - and for the excellent reason that starting at Aardvark means not breaking any ordering as you go through (if I remember correctly) but there was one extremely vociferous critic that sapped the energy out of the whole thing - believe it or not you can't change a space on WP without someone objecting - possibly me! However: what would be possible, if a little hard, would be to do it on a category by category basis: automatically identifying categories where an "out of order" (lets call it an O3) occurs and correcting all members. And of course setting default sorts for pages with diacritics only would also probably be acceptable. Rich Farmbrough, 16:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC).

ok thanks. I'll be back (or get Yobot to fix it) if a similar problem occurs; now I've mentioned the probably of that becomes infinitely unlikely. Problem not resolved, but probably solved.

As for systematic bot A to Z diacritic work - maybe wait a bit and suggest again. I can supply +1 !vote.Sf5xeplus (talk) 17:00, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Italic titles

Conversation - actions required.
Back in July you were a model of efficiency using AWB to strip out {{Italic title}}. Just curious - not to seem demanding, I hope - would your technical abilities and/or old-school industry be sufficient to the job of restoring those templates where removed, in the wake of this discussion? Wareh (talk) 01:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC) Was it as recently as July? And I can't remember being very thorough about it although I try. Not to restore, specifically (although it wouldn't be that hard), but to install for, for example, all ships, novels or whatever the consensus is. Incidentally it would have been good to have been involved in the discussion - you may have missed that I was replacing or proposing, at one point (maybe back in 2009), more specific templates - I forget the names but effectively {{Novel title}} or similar. This allows policy to flip-flop without having to edit a zillion articles. I was also installing "Italic title" (I proposed a specific name for that I think) on taxon pages, the temptation of projects to build the formatting into infoboxes is very large - I see the ships are going down that channel? - but misguided because 1. not all articles will have the infobox 2. it then becomes very difficult to use the infobox without italics 3. it is not clear from the page source how an "effect" is achieved - newbarrier. Rich Farmbrough, 07:27, 3 October 2010 (UTC). Topic specific templates also allow automatic processing of standard exceptions for example "HMS Midgard" instead of "HMS Midgard" if that is needed. Rich Farmbrough, 07:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC). The connection to you only just occurred to me as I manually changed a couple of articles on books whose italic titles you had removed. I'm sorry if this news of the discussions was not timely (and I did in fact know nothing about your previous template proposals), but I hope even this belated information about the change in policy may be useful in the hands of someone who clearly knows a lot about templates, automatic processes, etc. I take it you are suggesting that {{Italic title}} could perhaps be routinely added according to categories, e.g. Category:Books by date. The problem is that even "books" is too narrow: Category:Works by author and Category:Works by date are really only slightly too broad, but they include a lot of non-"books" (by WP category) whose titles should be italicized in running text. Most everything in Category:Ancient Greek works by author and Category:Philosophical works by author (areas near and dear to me) should be italicized, but I suspect many of them are not categorized as WP "books." So, if more specific templates were to be developed, I'd suggest that {{Novel title}} is way too narrow: even {{Book title}} has coverage issues for the relevant range of works. You've already lost me with some of the technical issues you raise, but book titles (more or less) are where I'd really love to see automated changes in equal or greater volume to the previous italic-removals. Do you see a good chance of achieving that? Here's what may be the most practical idea I can come up with. If the article title appears in the lead '''''Like this''''', isn't that the best criterion for applying {{Italic title}} (or DISPLAYTITLE for longer titles that break that template)? This seems to me to apply perfectly the new policy at WP:AT, which is simply, "Use italics when italics would be used in running text." If you think that's a useful avenue, perhaps you can take it to WP:AT or the appropriate technical forum where such things get implemented? Or I can at your suggestion: but I am very inexperienced on the technical side. Wareh (talk) 15:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC) No criticism was intended. Yes I miss lots of discussions, and end up "sighing" some of the time - but I really couldn't keep up with them all anyway - this one seems to have come to an acceptable conclusion, although I'm not sure I agree with it, I have always found this issue tricky, and, of course non-critical (unlike invisible capitals in template names <joke />). The ' ' ' ' ' idea is great - cuts to the chase - in would include ' ' too, since that probably means that the bolding was forgotten. It would probably be suitable for a WP:BRFA - I have a bit of a backlog there right now. Rich Farmbrough, 15:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC). I'm glad that sounds useful--it really only occurred to me in the course of replying to you here. So does "backlog" mean you think you'll pursue that eventually, or would it make more sense for me to go to somewhere like WP:BOTREQ, and if so, with or without stopping by Misplaced Pages talk:Article titles first? (The policy at WP:AT is plain enough, but I don't want to step on any toes in initiating action on that scale.) Sorry if this is asking for too much hand-holding, but I'm only slowly learning the ropes of all this behind-the-scenes work. Wareh (talk) 15:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC) No it's fine, I'll get a BRFA in presently. I'm just trying to streamline the way I deal with it - although the average response time of the BAG is long. Rich Farmbrough, 16:06, 3 October 2010 (UTC). I'll drop you a note when it's there, and you can mention it at other venues to gain input. Rich Farmbrough, 16:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC). Thanks. You are a true Misplaced Pages public servant! Wareh (talk) 13:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Conversation - actions required.

Back in July you were a model of efficiency using AWB to strip out {{Italic title}}. Just curious - not to seem demanding, I hope - would your technical abilities and/or old-school industry be sufficient to the job of restoring those templates where removed, in the wake of this discussion? Wareh (talk) 01:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Was it as recently as July? And I can't remember being very thorough about it although I try.

Not to restore, specifically (although it wouldn't be that hard), but to install for, for example, all ships, novels or whatever the consensus is.

Incidentally it would have been good to have been involved in the discussion - you may have missed that I was replacing or proposing, at one point (maybe back in 2009), more specific templates - I forget the names but effectively {{Novel title}} or similar. This allows policy to flip-flop without having to edit a zillion articles. I was also installing "Italic title" (I proposed a specific name for that I think) on taxon pages, the temptation of projects to build the formatting into infoboxes is very large - I see the ships are going down that channel? - but misguided because 1. not all articles will have the infobox 2. it then becomes very difficult to use the infobox without italics 3. it is not clear from the page source how an "effect" is achieved - newbarrier. Rich Farmbrough, 07:27, 3 October 2010 (UTC).

Topic specific templates also allow automatic processing of standard exceptions for example "HMS Midgard" instead of "HMS Midgard" if that is needed. Rich Farmbrough, 07:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC).

The connection to you only just occurred to me as I manually changed a couple of articles on books whose italic titles you had removed. I'm sorry if this news of the discussions was not timely (and I did in fact know nothing about your previous template proposals), but I hope even this belated information about the change in policy may be useful in the hands of someone who clearly knows a lot about templates, automatic processes, etc. I take it you are suggesting that {{Italic title}} could perhaps be routinely added according to categories, e.g. Category:Books by date. The problem is that even "books" is too narrow: Category:Works by author and Category:Works by date are really only slightly too broad, but they include a lot of non-"books" (by WP category) whose titles should be italicized in running text. Most everything in Category:Ancient Greek works by author and Category:Philosophical works by author (areas near and dear to me) should be italicized, but I suspect many of them are not categorized as WP "books." So, if more specific templates were to be developed, I'd suggest that {{Novel title}} is way too narrow: even {{Book title}} has coverage issues for the relevant range of works.

You've already lost me with some of the technical issues you raise, but book titles (more or less) are where I'd really love to see automated changes in equal or greater volume to the previous italic-removals. Do you see a good chance of achieving that?

Here's what may be the most practical idea I can come up with. If the article title appears in the lead '''''Like this''''', isn't that the best criterion for applying {{Italic title}} (or DISPLAYTITLE for longer titles that break that template)? This seems to me to apply perfectly the new policy at WP:AT, which is simply, "Use italics when italics would be used in running text."

If you think that's a useful avenue, perhaps you can take it to WP:AT or the appropriate technical forum where such things get implemented? Or I can at your suggestion: but I am very inexperienced on the technical side. Wareh (talk) 15:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

No criticism was intended. Yes I miss lots of discussions, and end up "sighing" some of the time - but I really couldn't keep up with them all anyway - this one seems to have come to an acceptable conclusion, although I'm not sure I agree with it, I have always found this issue tricky, and, of course non-critical (unlike invisible capitals in template names <joke />).
The ' ' ' ' ' idea is great - cuts to the chase - in would include ' ' too, since that probably means that the bolding was forgotten.
It would probably be suitable for a WP:BRFA - I have a bit of a backlog there right now.

Rich Farmbrough, 15:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC).

I'm glad that sounds useful--it really only occurred to me in the course of replying to you here. So does "backlog" mean you think you'll pursue that eventually, or would it make more sense for me to go to somewhere like WP:BOTREQ, and if so, with or without stopping by Misplaced Pages talk:Article titles first? (The policy at WP:AT is plain enough, but I don't want to step on any toes in initiating action on that scale.) Sorry if this is asking for too much hand-holding, but I'm only slowly learning the ropes of all this behind-the-scenes work. Wareh (talk) 15:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

No it's fine, I'll get a BRFA in presently. I'm just trying to streamline the way I deal with it - although the average response time of the BAG is long. Rich Farmbrough, 16:06, 3 October 2010 (UTC).

I'll drop you a note when it's there, and you can mention it at other venues to gain input. Rich Farmbrough, 16:07, 3 October 2010 (UTC).

Thanks. You are a true Misplaced Pages public servant! Wareh (talk) 13:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Railway

Conversation - actions required.
Hi, did you correct those Burmese infobox errors afterwards? Can you move all of the Gare de... in Category:Railway stations in France categories to ...... railway station. There is consensus to do so at WP:Trains. They should be in english.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC) E.g Gare de Colmar should be Colmar railway station.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC) See #Burma .. let me know. Yes that's not hard, when I get back about 5pm I'll get on to it. category:Paris Métro should not be a sub cat of Paris railway stations as this puts rolling stock into a station category. Rich Farmbrough, 13:03, 6 October 2010 (UTC). Gare Aero d'Montparnasse OK Gare de, Gare du and Gare d' I take it are fine to move, how about: Gare Maritime de Cherbourg Done Gare Maritime de Dieppe Done Gare Montparnasse Gare RER de Saint Germain-en-Laye Gare Saint-Lazare Gare TGV Haute-Picardie ? Rich Farmbrough, 13:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC). Mmm I'd go with: Gare Maritime de Cherbourg = Cherbourg Maritime railway station Gare Maritime de Dieppe = Dieppe Maritime railway station List here. Rich Farmbrough, 17:57, 6 October 2010 (UTC). Hang on a moment - I'm new to this but can't find the consensus for change described above. (Yes I tend to favour the Gare de .. title obviously.) Don't look at Category:Railway stations in Germany either :) . Lot's of stuff like Mannheim Hauptbahnhof. Particularly there is an objection to things like Gare d'Avignon TGV are in fairly common use in English, as are others. I'm worried that if you bot this it will make a mess eg consider Gare du Nord.Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC) Look on the talk page - specifically Manheim Hauptbahnhof and Gare du Nord are mentioned as exceptions. I don't think even if I was "botting it" I could affect the BBC pages... Or perhaps you mean the content of pages? There is no intent to do a search and replace (As far as I know.) Rich Farmbrough, 18:31, 6 October 2010 (UTC). Yes funny - I linked to the BBC to show an example of common usage.Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:38, 6 October 2010 (UTC) I'd also suggest (can that be demand) that the ones moved be moved back. This Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Railway_stations discussion hasn't really established a consensus for such a big change. Also despite being an English word too, I don't feel that 'maritime' is the correct English translation, possibly 'marine' is better, but fundamentally its usage is specific to the name - a literal translation probably won't make much sense. Although not English the French names satisfy Misplaced Pages:Article_titles#Deciding_an_article_title, especially recognisability. This definitely seems to have been an error in your judgement in honesty.Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:27, 6 October 2010 (UTC) Of course you can Revert (using "undo" - not roll-back if you have that) - then go and Discuss - its part of the BRD cycle, although with a month elapsed form the discussion, it's not that bold. Just drop me a note to let me know which bits if any you revert - or if you wish discuss then revert if necessary. Rich Farmbrough, 19:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC). I might have but as I'm not objecting to the other changes they exceptions with "Maritime" would seem out of place. There seems to be a few examples in english of the usage that's been proposed/changed ("xxx maritime station"), I'm not sure if "xxx harbour station" or "xxx port station" is better or worse. Must do more research before acting.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC) Note Just to make it clear - I've changed my position (on naming) from object to neutral - you can ignore the above.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC) (Thanks for the note: RF.) Will try to get back to this today or tomorrow. Rich Farmbrough, 11:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC). More Anyway far be it for me to stand in the way of progress - if the station name is simply "gare de xxx" then I don't object to "xxx station" etc. I'm not sure about the ones with "maritime" in. However you did get the capitalisation wrong, its railway station (lower case) eg King's Cross station. (ok so some USA stations use Railroad Station with caps, but that's for another day). Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2010 (UTC) Yes that is what was suggested, and normally I love WP's "down" style, and regularly take Dr Blofeld out the back and threaten him with his own sharks for using capitals in things like "Splurgle District". However thinking about it for a moment will reveal that it is not that simple. If the name is "Gare d'" then Station is part of the name. Though I argue elsewhere that, for example Kingston University is also Kingston university, so "downing" is a fairly safe operation, where as "upping" is not (Manchester universities <> Manchester Universities for example), in this case I think the cap is justified. I am open to persuasion however, more: if you can get consensus from WP T on either style I will go with that quite happily . I would indeed personally prefer just "Station" or "station", since to my ear "Railway" is the default. Other varieties of English, however, may vary. Rich Farmbrough, 19:01, 6 October 2010 (UTC). Category:Railway stations in Belgium could be an example of precedence - 1/2 of it speaks French of a sort (or maybe that's wrong too). As an additional capitalisation of gare is not always done (except at the beginning of a sentence) eg , also http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=+site:www.lemonde.fr+le+monde+gare Le Monde uses lower case if not leading a sentence. eg No idea what the official French ministry of spelling and culture position is on this controversy.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:13, 6 October 2010 (UTC) That's interesting. I am, sadly, an expert in neither Walloon (as I remarked earlier today, funnily enough) or railway stations, although there is a fascination about abandoned underground stations that probably speaks to either a deep character flaw, or to much "Quatermass" as a child. (Hobbs End I think? OR was that the good Doctor?) The place for discussion is is most likely the WikiProject. You can cut and paste this wholesale if you wish. Rich Farmbrough, 19:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC). Or maybe I should take your opinion, my doubts, and the talk page suggestion as consensus for lower case? IDK. I'l think on't. Rich Farmbrough, 19:19, 6 October 2010 (UTC). I've left a note at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Capitalisation_of_french_railway_stations and on Blofeld's page too. I can let you know (though I've suggested others post here since I'm fairly certain this is a non-controversial thing already decided). I can let you know. the reason I'm hassling you about this is because I'm under the impression that you have 'thousands' of station articles to name change..? maybe that's not the caseSf5xeplus (talk) 19:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC) Thanks. It's about 400 - see the list I mentioned. I was planning on creating redirects to the Gare du Nord articles - an of course anyone could move back specific items. Oh and yes, re: Le Monde, French capitalisation differs from ours for proper nouns (e.g. Académie française) but that's about as far as my knowledge takes me. Rich Farmbrough, 19:49, 6 October 2010 (UTC). There seemed to be no objection to moving the pages to lower casing e.g Rouen railway station. These really should be moved as Gare means nothing to most non French speakers. I personally prefer the Railway Station capitalised but consensus at WP:Trains seems to be lower casing. "railway" station is necessary as "station could refer to bus station, tram/cable car station or even a scientific research station.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:41, 6 October 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the notes, will try to get back to this today or tomorrow. Rich Farmbrough, 11:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC).

Conversation - actions required.

Hi, did you correct those Burmese infobox errors afterwards? Can you move all of the Gare de... in Category:Railway stations in France categories to ...... railway station. There is consensus to do so at WP:Trains. They should be in english.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

E.g Gare de Colmar should be Colmar railway station.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

See #Burma .. let me know. Yes that's not hard, when I get back about 5pm I'll get on to it.

category:Paris Métro should not be a sub cat of Paris railway stations as this puts rolling stock into a station category. Rich Farmbrough, 13:03, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

OK Gare de, Gare du and Gare d' I take it are fine to move, how about:

? Rich Farmbrough, 13:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

Mmm I'd go with:

Gare Maritime de Cherbourg = Cherbourg Maritime railway station
Gare Maritime de Dieppe = Dieppe Maritime railway station

List here. Rich Farmbrough, 17:57, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

Hang on a moment - I'm new to this but can't find the consensus for change described above. (Yes I tend to favour the Gare de .. title obviously.)

Don't look at Category:Railway stations in Germany either :) . Lot's of stuff like Mannheim Hauptbahnhof.

Particularly there is an objection to things like Gare d'Avignon TGV are in fairly common use in English, as are others. I'm worried that if you bot this it will make a mess eg consider Gare du Nord.Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Look on the talk page - specifically Manheim Hauptbahnhof and Gare du Nord are mentioned as exceptions. I don't think even if I was "botting it" I could affect the BBC pages... Or perhaps you mean the content of pages? There is no intent to do a search and replace (As far as I know.) Rich Farmbrough, 18:31, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

Yes funny - I linked to the BBC to show an example of common usage.Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:38, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd also suggest (can that be demand) that the ones moved be moved back. This Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Railway_stations discussion hasn't really established a consensus for such a big change. Also despite being an English word too, I don't feel that 'maritime' is the correct English translation, possibly 'marine' is better, but fundamentally its usage is specific to the name - a literal translation probably won't make much sense. Although not English the French names satisfy Misplaced Pages:Article_titles#Deciding_an_article_title, especially recognisability. This definitely seems to have been an error in your judgement in honesty.Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:27, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course you can Revert (using "undo" - not roll-back if you have that) - then go and Discuss - its part of the BRD cycle, although with a month elapsed form the discussion, it's not that bold. Just drop me a note to let me know which bits if any you revert - or if you wish discuss then revert if necessary. Rich Farmbrough, 19:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

I might have but as I'm not objecting to the other changes they exceptions with "Maritime" would seem out of place. There seems to be a few examples in english of the usage that's been proposed/changed ("xxx maritime station"), I'm not sure if "xxx harbour station" or "xxx port station" is better or worse. Must do more research before acting.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Note Just to make it clear - I've changed my position (on naming) from object to neutral - you can ignore the above.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC) (Thanks for the note: RF.)

Will try to get back to this today or tomorrow. Rich Farmbrough, 11:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC).

Anyway far be it for me to stand in the way of progress - if the station name is simply "gare de xxx" then I don't object to "xxx station" etc. I'm not sure about the ones with "maritime" in.

However you did get the capitalisation wrong, its railway station (lower case) eg King's Cross station. (ok so some USA stations use Railroad Station with caps, but that's for another day). Sf5xeplus (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes that is what was suggested, and normally I love WP's "down" style, and regularly take Dr Blofeld out the back and threaten him with his own sharks for using capitals in things like "Splurgle District". However thinking about it for a moment will reveal that it is not that simple. If the name is "Gare d'" then Station is part of the name. Though I argue elsewhere that, for example Kingston University is also Kingston university, so "downing" is a fairly safe operation, where as "upping" is not (Manchester universities <> Manchester Universities for example), in this case I think the cap is justified. I am open to persuasion however, more: if you can get consensus from WP T on either style I will go with that quite happily . I would indeed personally prefer just "Station" or "station", since to my ear "Railway" is the default. Other varieties of English, however, may vary. Rich Farmbrough, 19:01, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

Category:Railway stations in Belgium could be an example of precedence - 1/2 of it speaks French of a sort (or maybe that's wrong too). As an additional capitalisation of gare is not always done (except at the beginning of a sentence) eg , also http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=+site:www.lemonde.fr+le+monde+gare Le Monde uses lower case if not leading a sentence. eg No idea what the official French ministry of spelling and culture position is on this controversy.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:13, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

That's interesting. I am, sadly, an expert in neither Walloon (as I remarked earlier today, funnily enough) or railway stations, although there is a fascination about abandoned underground stations that probably speaks to either a deep character flaw, or to much "Quatermass" as a child. (Hobbs End I think? OR was that the good Doctor?) The place for discussion is is most likely the WikiProject. You can cut and paste this wholesale if you wish. Rich Farmbrough, 19:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

Or maybe I should take your opinion, my doubts, and the talk page suggestion as consensus for lower case? IDK. I'l think on't. Rich Farmbrough, 19:19, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

I've left a note at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#Capitalisation_of_french_railway_stations and on Blofeld's page too. I can let you know (though I've suggested others post here since I'm fairly certain this is a non-controversial thing already decided). I can let you know. the reason I'm hassling you about this is because I'm under the impression that you have 'thousands' of station articles to name change..? maybe that's not the caseSf5xeplus (talk) 19:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. It's about 400 - see the list I mentioned. I was planning on creating redirects to the Gare du Nord articles - an of course anyone could move back specific items. Oh and yes, re: Le Monde, French capitalisation differs from ours for proper nouns (e.g. Académie française) but that's about as far as my knowledge takes me. Rich Farmbrough, 19:49, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

There seemed to be no objection to moving the pages to lower casing e.g Rouen railway station. These really should be moved as Gare means nothing to most non French speakers. I personally prefer the Railway Station capitalised but consensus at WP:Trains seems to be lower casing. "railway" station is necessary as "station could refer to bus station, tram/cable car station or even a scientific research station.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:41, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the notes, will try to get back to this today or tomorrow. Rich Farmbrough, 11:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC).

Printworthy

Conversation - actions required.
It occurs to me that any redirect that is categorised (Misplaced Pages:Categorizing redirects) excluding those which only have categories which are subcats of Category:Misplaced Pages redirects should always be printworthy redirects (Template:R printworthy).. Any chance of a bot for that?? Sf5xeplus (talk) 14:05, 9 October 2010 (UTC): Yes, but probably better to either ensure Category:Unprintworthy redirects is in the appropriate redirect templates, and the rest would be printworthy by default? Rich Farmbrough, 14:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC). Maybe - in an earlier life I might have created various unprintable redirects (spelling and caps variations) that I haven't got on a watchlist and don't remember.. I haven't done that for years since I learnt better. Following on with the logic - a bot could "printworthy" all mainspace categorised redirects, and "not-printworthy" all other redirects not already having "printworthy". A few printworthy redirects might get missed but that's a user problem.. The final sauce would be to have a bot to tag "printworthy" any "unprintworthy" redirects if they are subsequently categorised in the 'mainspace'. That would categorise all redirects, with only minor printworthy omissions - the omissions could be manually caught by categorising with "bot categorised unprintworthy" - giving a much more easily human-checked list of possible bot errors. Once done maintenance should be minimal.. Hope springs eternal.Sf5xeplus (talk) 14:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC) Yes I think there is something to that. I just changed 20th Century Masters: The Millennium Collection: The Best of Rob Zombie to unprintworthy, it was the second one I looked at - and quite bottable. Rich Farmbrough, 14:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC).

Conversation - actions required.

It occurs to me that any redirect that is categorised (Misplaced Pages:Categorizing redirects) excluding those which only have categories which are subcats of Category:Misplaced Pages redirects should always be printworthy redirects (Template:R printworthy)..

Any chance of a bot for that?? Sf5xeplus (talk) 14:05, 9 October 2010 (UTC):

Yes, but probably better to either ensure Category:Unprintworthy redirects is in the appropriate redirect templates, and the rest would be printworthy by default? Rich Farmbrough, 14:08, 9 October 2010 (UTC).

Maybe - in an earlier life I might have created various unprintable redirects (spelling and caps variations) that I haven't got on a watchlist and don't remember.. I haven't done that for years since I learnt better.

Following on with the logic - a bot could "printworthy" all mainspace categorised redirects, and "not-printworthy" all other redirects not already having "printworthy". A few printworthy redirects might get missed but that's a user problem.. The final sauce would be to have a bot to tag "printworthy" any "unprintworthy" redirects if they are subsequently categorised in the 'mainspace'.

That would categorise all redirects, with only minor printworthy omissions - the omissions could be manually caught by categorising with "bot categorised unprintworthy" - giving a much more easily human-checked list of possible bot errors. Once done maintenance should be minimal.. Hope springs eternal.Sf5xeplus (talk) 14:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes I think there is something to that. I just changed 20th Century Masters: The Millennium Collection: The Best of Rob Zombie to unprintworthy, it was the second one I looked at - and quite bottable. Rich Farmbrough, 14:51, 9 October 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot duplicate tags feature request

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Sorry if this is not the place to leave this, but this is mostly a feature request I think. In this diff, it would be nice if SmackBot would notice that there are duplicate tags and remove the duplicated tags. Would this be easy to implement? Devourer09 (t·c) 16:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC) I'm not sure how hard it would be, it depends on scope, I suspect that the main difficulty would be dividing the list up into remove and don't remove, dfor example, multiple Expand section, or multiple Citation needed tags are legitimate (but not adjoining). Simpler might be to limit it to tag knots, in which case it would be fairly easy. I'll submit a BRFA. Rich Farmbrough, 16:31, 12 October 2010 (UTC). BRFA submitted and in trial. Rich Farmbrough, 02:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC).

Conversation - actions required.

Sorry if this is not the place to leave this, but this is mostly a feature request I think. In this diff, it would be nice if SmackBot would notice that there are duplicate tags and remove the duplicated tags. Would this be easy to implement? Devourer09 (t·c) 16:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure how hard it would be, it depends on scope, I suspect that the main difficulty would be dividing the list up into remove and don't remove, dfor example, multiple Expand section, or multiple Citation needed tags are legitimate (but not adjoining). Simpler might be to limit it to tag knots, in which case it would be fairly easy. I'll submit a BRFA. Rich Farmbrough, 16:31, 12 October 2010 (UTC).

BRFA submitted and in trial. Rich Farmbrough, 02:12, 16 October 2010 (UTC).

Minor issues

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{{Wikibreak}} William Rodgers, Baron Rodgers of Quarry Bank Misplaced Pages:Good article criteria

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Someone has messed with the Snoqualmie, Washington Page - the "Location" has trash in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.136.218.242 (talk) 20:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

DNB

I've left a comment at WT:WP DNB#Bot_building about the new Magnus Manske tool in the area (Magnus put it together in a couple of hours after the meetup). I've never been exactly sure about the merits of importing text from Wikisource other than in an article: but I think the merits would be improved by a number of possible "added value" steps. One of those would be to take into account the output of this tool, and only import articles for the project to work on which come up as "none found" with that matching tool. I.e. remove or sort according to what the tool finds, which can be (a) no match, (b) very plausible match, (c) inconclusive run with numerous candidates none of which is a great fit, (d) > 50 hits. There is actually a good argument for first doing that sorting into four. The case (d) is one either for human intervention, or for another layer of matching attempt. Case (b) is the sort of stuff I'm going by hand, and invites work expanding stubs and adding the ext lk back. So anyway case (a) is the most fruitful at this point for an import.

And what else? Imported text should be topped-and-tailed in some way to make it more useful (will need a lead section, should finish with reference using {{cite DNB}} and attribution using {{DNB}}, both filled in with wstitle=). There is actually a lot of scope for stripping out parts of the article too: certainly the sections, and with more intelligence much of the inline refs between parentheses. NB the use of small caps within parentheses for author names, which should be a clue.

Charles Matthews (talk) 13:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Risk list bot

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I would love to see the BLP risk list turned into an ongoing bot. We could manage it as an ongoing queue by having the bot keep all the previous hits with context in a local file or DB on the backend. For example: Bob Smithinson: accused of an affair with his After this hit, "riskbot" would keep this in a local file or db, and then would filter it out of subsequent runs, context included. That way if the affair gets added back in with slightly different context, we'd get another warning. It would take all the "new hits" and append them on the bottom of the running queue page. As people check the hits, they'd remove them from the page. It's O(n^2) on the number of hits, but scrubbing one set of lines with another is pretty inexpensive, since it's just simple equality. Let me know what you think. Gigs (talk) 01:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC) It's worth doing I think. The time consuming part at the moment is actually accessing all the articles, thought they are mostly small. There's ways to optiminze this away however. Rich Farmbrough, 01:45, 31 October 2010 (UTC).

Conversation - actions required.

I would love to see the BLP risk list turned into an ongoing bot. We could manage it as an ongoing queue by having the bot keep all the previous hits with context in a local file or DB on the backend.

For example:

Bob Smithinson: accused of an affair with his

After this hit, "riskbot" would keep this in a local file or db, and then would filter it out of subsequent runs, context included. That way if the affair gets added back in with slightly different context, we'd get another warning. It would take all the "new hits" and append them on the bottom of the running queue page. As people check the hits, they'd remove them from the page. It's O(n^2) on the number of hits, but scrubbing one set of lines with another is pretty inexpensive, since it's just simple equality. Let me know what you think. Gigs (talk) 01:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

It's worth doing I think. The time consuming part at the moment is actually accessing all the articles, thought they are mostly small. There's ways to optiminze this away however. Rich Farmbrough, 01:45, 31 October 2010 (UTC).

Misplaced Pages talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs#Authentical plugin?

Yes, it is still there. I suggest we continue this on our talk pages(or you can add me in Runescape, as i also seen you on the rswiki) so do you know what to do to fix it?Joeytje50 (talk) 20:39, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, i am on the list, as the error for Joeytje50(not on list) is "Joeytje50 is not enabled to do this" while the error for Bot50(on list) gets the error "The password you provided is incorrect. (an authentication plugin rather than MediaWiki itself rejected the password)" And i asked Cook Me Plox, and i talked about it on the irc, and he doesn't know what the problem is.Joeytje50 (talk) 20:53, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm.. what to do with this? Needs some tech attention at Wikia I guess. Rich Farmbrough, 10:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC).

Bibliographies

This is just a personal opinion, mind you. Like I said, I am, rather slowly, assembling bibliographies of the various geographical areas of the earth. As they would deal with things like the local flora, fauna, people, culture, and the like, they could also serve as the basis for things like, for instance, Bibliography of South American military history, which would be a selection of books about the military history of that area drawn from the bibliographies of the main states/regions themselves.

That will not however include such things as the sciences, or philosophy, or the major religions, and certainly not off-world topics like astronomy. They would probably need to be created entirely separately.

My own basic choice would be to maybe have others create bibliographies for the sciences, business, and other topics that don't have clear geographic ties.

I would think the items to be included would best include separate books/works on the topic that have been reviewed by academic journals and other reputable specialist magazines, and/or included in books or articles of bibliography of that topic.

There are obviously questions regarding how long to make these bibliographies, and that's a separate matter entirely. The bibliography of physics, like the bibliography of Christianity, would be potentially endless. For such broad topics, maybe the best way to proceed would be to look at the various extant reference works, like encyclopedias, that deal with the topics, and to start include only those works which are included in the bibliographies of the articles in those encyclopedias. That would be a start, anyway. John Carter (talk) 17:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

The bibliography of physics should probably include some well known wide ranging texts, Weidner and Sells, Richards, Wier, Zehrs and Zemansky I think are two, the vade meca of various fields, seminal works, and key references (Handbook of Physical Data?) and cross references to detailed, bibliographies of mechanics, relativity, gravitation, string theory, etc... Rich Farmbrough, 12:57, 9 November 2010 (UTC).

IPA dump search

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Hey Rich, If you have the time, would you mind doing another search of the dump, as you did at User:Rich Farmbrough/temp14? I've run through that last list. (20 articles which I can't do on my own are all that's left.) A couple things different this time: no article exclusions (I will simply have AWB ignore anything within templates, unless you can pre-parse those at your end), plus a couple extra characters we missed last time. (If you can search for pure diacritics, that would be even better; otherwise I've noticed some more common combos, such as β̞ i̯ u̯ e̯ o̯, plus another character, ‹ˁ› that is commonly mistaken for IPA ‹ˤ›.) Thanks, — kwami (talk) 07:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC) What do you think of this? I'll have a look at making this scan a regular thing. Rich Farmbrough, 09:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC). Yeah, silly me. That worked fine. We missed β̞ last time, though, and if individual diacritics aren't possible, i̯ u̯ e̯ o̯ will probably turn up a good number of hits. — kwami (talk) 06:04, 12 November 2010 (UTC) I'm doing my own search of the IPA letters (the first block in your search), so never mind about doing them again. However, AWB won't work w ˥ ˦ ˧ ˨ ˩ ꜛ ꜜ, which you included in that block last time. There are also a few new ones you didn't include and AWB wont' cover, if you can add them: ꜞꜝ ↗↘‖˕˔‿ and t͜ . Plus, of course, any diacritics, which AWB search doesn't handle well. Thanks!! — kwami (talk) 18:54, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Conversation - actions required.

Hey Rich,

If you have the time, would you mind doing another search of the dump, as you did at User:Rich Farmbrough/temp14? I've run through that last list. (20 articles which I can't do on my own are all that's left.)

A couple things different this time: no article exclusions (I will simply have AWB ignore anything within templates, unless you can pre-parse those at your end), plus a couple extra characters we missed last time. (If you can search for pure diacritics, that would be even better; otherwise I've noticed some more common combos, such as β̞ i̯ u̯ e̯ o̯, plus another character, ‹ˁ› that is commonly mistaken for IPA ‹ˤ›.)

Thanks, — kwami (talk) 07:13, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

What do you think of this? I'll have a look at making this scan a regular thing. Rich Farmbrough, 09:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC).

Yeah, silly me. That worked fine. We missed β̞ last time, though, and if individual diacritics aren't possible, i̯ u̯ e̯ o̯ will probably turn up a good number of hits. — kwami (talk) 06:04, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm doing my own search of the IPA letters (the first block in your search), so never mind about doing them again. However, AWB won't work w ˥ ˦ ˧ ˨ ˩ ꜛ ꜜ, which you included in that block last time. There are also a few new ones you didn't include and AWB wont' cover, if you can add them: ꜞꜝ ↗↘‖˕˔‿ and t͜ . Plus, of course, any diacritics, which AWB search doesn't handle well.

Thanks!! — kwami (talk) 18:54, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Note to self

Need to check on enzymes. Rich Farmbrough, 10:39, 18 November 2010 (UTC).

Burma

Hi. What's the chances of you being able to use your tools to help with dabbing for Burmese settlements. Check out Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Burma (Myanmar)/Township templates and User:Dr. Blofeld/Burma#Repeated places names...♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

What I'll do first is draw up all of the templates. Once that is done Abok should be linked inside two different township templates when currently it is just Abok and so. Most of them do not even have dab pages...Once I've drawn up the templates hopefully you will be able to read the what links here and run something... example:Ahlaw. Perhaps you have something which will be able to read the ... Township links and generate dab pages like Ahlaw with Ahlaw Paungbyin and Ahlaw, Tamu linked. Bets thought to wait until I've created all the templates so the links can easily be accessed in the what links here.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:09, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

What I envisage is a script which reads .... Township , e.g Ahlaw being linked in the template named Tamu Township and extracts the name and dabs them e.g as Ahlaw, Tamu. It would need to generate pages and also correct the existing links in the templates. Might need BAG approval. I've also proposed it to Plastikspork. Perhaps you could contact him and decide the best way to do it. Meanwhile I'll continue making the templates after I've stubbed some of the few missing township articles for Bago region..♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/Femto Bot 4

Template: Trial complete.. *

Edits by:

Rich Farmbrough at 21:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC).

Last edit by BAGGER was by Xeno at 15:16, 2 November 2010 (UTC).
Last edit by me at 21:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC).
Last edit by anyone was by Rich Farmbrough at 21:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC).
Bottom edit was by Rich Farmbrough at 21:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC).

Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 22:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Norway

Hi Rich. A while back I began adding infoboxes to Norwegian villages, mostly unreferenced stubs lying around from 2006 which were created by Punkmorten (Geshicte). Given that he won't so much as make the tiniest edit to Norwegian geo articles these days, somebody has to do it.Basically it just adding an infobox with the location info county etc and a pin map like Kjelvik. I was wondering if you could copy the that infobox and use some sort of script to add infoboxes (and copy the coordinates from the bototm of the page into the infoboxes to the rest of the villages by county of the Category:Populated places in Norway. So far I've done Finnmark and Sog. Browse Category:Villages in Akershus for starters for example.. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

What's troubling you Rich? I also need your help with User:Dr. Blofeld/Country year templates.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:42, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Respond eh? See voo play? :p

Hi Rich. You may want to comment at this discussion. Actually, it would be great if you could. :) œ 19:41, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Commented. Will attempt to revisit later. Rich Farmbrough, 22:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC).

Villages, North Cyprus

Hello, I wondered if I could ask you for help? Some time ago someone started a stub for all the villages of North Cyprus. The problem is that they used the Greek names, which are today historical (they have not been used since the war in 1974). Today the Turkish names are used. Hence, as I understand it, according to WP:NAME (see the discussion on Gdańsk vs Danzig) the Turkish names should be used in the articles (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

I have started moving some of the villages of the Kyrenia District -however, it takes for ages for me to do so. I would very much appreciate some help. Thanks, Guestworker (talk) 01:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Is there evidence that the Turkish names are used in the English speaking world? Rich Farmbrough, 19:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC).

Hi, you can look at any guide-book in English of "North Cyprus" or "Northern Cyprus" (Books which are published in the English speaking world) and you will see the the Turkish names are used. Thanks, Guestworker (talk) 06:53, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Re: Misplaced Pages:Database reports/Unlisted stub types

I like what you did with this report on the stub templates. Can it be updated? Can a similar report be run for the Categories? Finally, could these be automatically set to update, say, once a month? or even once a quarter? Dawynn (talk) 20:30, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's pretty much what I planned, if they are going to be maintained. However it looked like there were other lists doing a similar job that had not been attended to for a significant period of time. Rich Farmbrough, 17:49, 8 December 2010 (UTC).

Note there is a report for "Uncategorized Stub types" too ]. Rich Farmbrough, 05:24, 9 December 2010 (UTC).

Revive Wildbot?

A few folks would love to see someone revive and/or take over Wildbot. You've been mentioned a couple times: Up for it? --W☯W 20:25, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

List of townlands of County Cork

I note that you've tried to slim down the above page a bit. I took the matter of size to WikiProject Ireland but they didn't seem particularly interested! As you have been around Misplaced Pages a fair bit (apparently you've got a few thousands edits under your belt), I wondered if you had any ideas on how to make the article accessible to Joe Bloggs. Would splitting it up into List of townlands of County Cork, A–E etc. be acceptable? What's the point in having a page which 80% of readers won't be able to access? Thanks. —Half Price 20:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Splitting by barony would make more sense. Rich Farmbrough, 23:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC).

Yes, though significantly more troublesome. OK, thanks. —Half Price 11:23, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Except that I already did it.... Rich Farmbrough, 11:25, 20 December 2010 (UTC).

Yes, sorry, it isn't hard at all! —Half Price 16:07, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

You Blog

I noticed your blog page. Im not sure if I should/can add to it, so I'll ask here. Unless sidelined to other WP activities, I usually do Random Article editing;commas, spelling, recasting, replace redundancy, etc. Reading your blog I realized how buzy an editor like you must be with all your interests, etc. Is there some simple mindless task that I could perform to assist you? (Emphasis on the simple) 40 years ago, I worked in a building as a Night Superintendant. The house carpenter worked at night, on his own time, creating beautiful dressers, etc. on consignment. I was his unpaid assistant and learned invaluable, life-long lessons in the Art of Carpentry. Maybe the same can happen for me at WP. Buster Seven Talk 19:30, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Template:Infobox wine region

~~Being f~~ Fixed. BTW, hundreds of users have used the wrong infobox on UK school pages (maybe other countries too, I haven't looked yet). Do you know of a quick fix that retains the data? I can't use AWB on my computers. Cheers. --Kudpung (talk) 00:57, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh? Which template? I thought that there was a resolved discussion which ended up unifying the school (educational institution) infoboxes. Yes I have a fix for this sort of thing. Rich Farmbrough, 06:38, 31 December 2010 (UTC).

There is no cohesion at the schools project of the kind you get with a project like wine for example where there is a standardised template and a regular group of dedicated members who monitor the quality of the articles and intervenes where necessary. School articles are each and every one written by SPA, none of them read the guidelines, and in the same way as many new editors think every new article needs a new cat for it, they think every school type or school district needs a custom infobox. The end effect is that we have 39 different infoboxes out there where all we need are three: one for US Schools, one for UK schools, one for Oz schools, and a generic one for the est of the world. A big team has just recently improved the programme functions of the UK Schools infobox, and I've had a list made at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Schools/UK schools using wrong infoboxes of nearly 400 schools that are using the wrong one. I started to work through the list manually but I felt that this could somehow be automated as I am currently running the schools project pretty much single handed. Any ideas you have would be greatly appreciated. --Kudpung (talk) 07:14, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I am pretty sure I replaced all except the UK/Oz ones a couple of years back. And at that time both were completely replaceable with the main infobox - I actually did a trial replacement of each, without loosing any fields. We flatter ourselves that "Ofsted" or "DFES number" is somehow special. Rich Farmbrough, 09:18, 31 December 2010 (UTC).

Hi Rich. Yes, you're right about the DfES and Ofsted fields, but if it was that long ago I guess the 370 on this list are more recent. They have either used deprecated boxes, or copied ones from other school articles. --Kudpung (talk) 19:12, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Years pages

Greetings! Your name came up in a discussion at Template_talk:Unreferenced#Internal_References. The suggestion was that one of your minion bots might be helpful in cleaning up bannerspam on the years, decades, centuries pages. How would you feel about that?--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 21:30, 31 December 2010 (UTC)---

Removing noinclude tags

Why are you removing noinclude tags: ? These year pages are transcluded in higher level articles, and your removal royal screws up the entire chain. 68.35.24.151 (talk) 22:25, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining, I was told there was no current purpose. Onlyinclude is a better directive for this purpose. Rich Farmbrough, 22:54, 1 January 2011 (UTC).

I agree. It should be a straightforward task to take all the "year" articles and flip the logic. Even better would be to add a comment next to it as well, so people don't inadvertently remove it. I know I have done the same before in season episode list articles which were being transcluded in another article. Plastikspork _―Œ 23:25, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

infoboxes

Did you see my reply above? --Kudpung (talk) 22:57, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

No , I hadn't noticed that the Oz box had gone because that whole section on the schools main page is a template of some kind and I don't know how it got there in the first place, so no changes show on my watchlist. My main problem is still how to automate the change over of the near 500 pages here. --Kudpung (talk) 23:20, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/Mirror Bot

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Mr.Z-man at 04:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC).

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Mr.Z-man at 04:10, 2 January 2011 (UTC).

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Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 04:23, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Project Stamford

I've taken up your invite to join, and hope I can do something helpful. But it seems to me there are clever people than me about.

R.J.Penhey (wikipedian RJPe (talk · contribs) might be a useful addition, although he might not want to get involved, judging by what he has said elsewhere. But his own research expertise is far superior to mine

The obvious person to write about Stamford Castle would be David Roffe. But I can't see that he is a wikipedian, unless you know differently. --Robert EA Harvey (talk) 10:24, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 3 January 2011

2010 in review: Review of the year

News and notes: Record fundraiser celebrated and debated; Board-appointed Trustees; brief news

In the news: Fundraising success media coverage; brief news

WikiProject report: Where are they now? Redux

Features and admins: Featured sound choice of the year

Arbitration report: Motion proposed in W/B – Judea and Samaria case

Technology report: Bugs, Repairs, and Internal Operational News

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 01:05, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

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Rich Farmbrough at 09:56, 4 January 2011 (UTC).

Last edit by BAGGER was by H3llkn0wz at 13:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC).
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Last edit by anyone was by Rich Farmbrough at 09:56, 4 January 2011 (UTC).
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Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 10:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

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Edits by:

Rich Farmbrough at 10:02, 4 January 2011 (UTC).
Rich Farmbrough at 09:56, 4 January 2011 (UTC).

Last edit by BAGGER was by H3llkn0wz at 13:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC).
Last edit by me at 10:02, 4 January 2011 (UTC).
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Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 10:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

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Never edited by BAG.
Last edit by me at 13:22, 1 January 2011 (UTC).
Last edit by anyone was by ] at 13:22, 1 January 2011 (UTC).
Bottom edit was by Rich Farmbrough at 09:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC).

Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 10:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/Femto Bot 4

Template: {{BAG assistance needed}}. *

Edits by:

Last edit by BAGGER was by Mr.Z-man at 04:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC).
Last edit by me at 10:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC).
Last edit by anyone was by ] at 10:12, 4 January 2011 (UTC).
Bottom edit was by Rich Farmbrough at 11:04, 3 January 2011 (UTC).

Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 23:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Femto Bot 4

Hi Rich. There don't seem to be any examples of Femto Bot having pinged bag members for this task. Would it be possible to get that done? Possibly on that request itself (hence me commenting here and not there), or by just briefly moving the time down to a couple of hours. If so, I'm happy to okay another trial, but for that particular function. - Kingpin (talk) 15:03, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok I'll have a look at the code, I was kinda reluctant to enable it even during the trial. Rich Farmbrough, 15:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC).

Well another thing I was going to mention was the times it waits. Basically, any chance of changing your waiting periods to at least 1 week to start off with, since that's what's suggested at BRfA, and seems more realistic than one/two days (alternatively you could write something slightly more complex to get the number of open BRfAs and base the time off that (if there are more BRfAs give BAG more time)). The other thing that needs to be discussed is having the bot turn on tasks once they are approved. How secure is this, could a user pretend to be a BAG member and get the bot to start before it's actually been approved? - Kingpin (talk) 15:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes time is a moot point. I'll have to think about it. With 12 "active" members BRFAs should be hit fairly quickly, though.
Hm yes they could, but they'd fool me too. Rich Farmbrough, 15:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC).

1) But of course, when it comes to BAG "active" really does need quotation marks =p. Well either 7 days or based on the number of open requests would be my suggestions. Also, how is the member to message selected? Have you done anything about looking at BAG members who previously commented? 2) Personally, I still think this bit needs to be semi-automated, even just have a pop-up box saying " is about to be , the last person to edit the request was . Continue?". - Kingpin (talk) 15:37, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Well the code to run the trials is still in early stages too. Probably I need to write some new "stop" code since I was relying on AWB built in feature mostly. Rich Farmbrough, 15:39, 5 January 2011 (UTC).

Okay, feel free to give me a poke once you're happy with the code. Especially that for the BAG pinging function (also I'm still interested about how you select which BAG member to message, hopefully you aren't messaging the same one the first time every time. Would also be good if you at least started with a BAG member who's already familiar with the BRfA (you could just steal that from AnomieBOT's report)). Just to quickly wrap up for now, here's what I feel should to be done -

Consider increasing time before a request is considered stale.
Take a look at some different methods for which order BAG members are messaged in.
Write up code for the auto-start of tasks, with some form of manual approval (I agree with H3llkn0wz on this, I'm not comfortable with it being fully automated). Best, - Kingpin (talk) 22:43, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Stamford

Are you going to work on this? It's outside my range so I don't think I could help you any. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • 06:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes I'm still getting to grips with the template. Rich Farmbrough, 11:33, 8 January 2011 (UTC).

Nomination for deletion of Template:Portal/Images/Wikipedia essays

Template:Portal/Images/Wikipedia essays has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Mhiji 21:40, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

A lot of duplicate albums categories

I'm finding an awful lot of duplicate categories that you've recently created.

You created Category:Ice T albums; pre-existing Category:Ice-T albums
You created Category:2Pac albums; pre-existing Category:Tupac Shakur albums
You created Category:Warner Brothers albums; pre-existing Category:Warner Bros. Records albums

and so on. I realise you are probably doing this through some sort of mechanical process, but really I think we need to a be a bit more careful in avoiding duplicates. These duplicate categories are even being placed on articles where the pre-existing one already exists, as with Rhyme Pays, which had Category:Ice-T albums and Category:Ice T albums on it. Good Ol’factory 09:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I started out addressing specific labels, where the process works reasonably well. Clearly a more generic approach will require more generic safeguards. Rich Farmbrough, 15:47, 13 January 2011 (UTC).

Template:Lfpfr

Please check the new id is worked. Carlos Henrique id isn't Carlos-Henrique. Matthew_hk t c 14:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, interesting, problem fixed, template improved, I think the page needs moving though? Rich Farmbrough, 15:48, 13 January 2011 (UTC).

Happy tenth!

File:Verre de whisky.jpg

Happy 10th anniversary of Misplaced Pages!

Perseus, Son of Zeus has bought you a whisky! Sharing a whisky is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the WikiLove by buying someone else a whisky, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Enjoy!

Spread the good cheer and camaraderie by adding {{subst:User:HJ Mitchell/WikiScotch}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Message received at 18:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

--Perseus, Son of Zeus 18:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC) --

Happy 10th

File:Verre de whisky.jpg

Happy 10th anniversary of Misplaced Pages!

Hey Bzuk (contribs) has bought you a whisky! Sharing a whisky is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the WikiLove by buying someone else a whisky, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Enjoy!

What goes around, comes around. Spread the good cheer and camaraderie by adding {{subst:User:HJ Mitchell/WikiScotch}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Bzuk (talk) 15:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit notice at Colony High School (Alaska)

Rich, how would you feel about this combined notice:

Attention!

The community has placed this article on article probation as specified at here. Any addition of content that is not properly sourced, does not conform to Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy, or is defamatory will be promptly removed. In addition, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages should you persist in such actions.

Do not add the names of minors who are not independently' notable to this page.

--EdJohnston (talk) 17:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Ed, I don't have a fish in this race. But if I edited an article about a school, and the words "Sarah Palin" appeared in an edit notice, I would immediately assume that her child attended the school.

How about:

Attention!

Do not add the names of minors who are not independently' notable to this page.

Rich Farmbrough, 17:35, 16th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Nomination for deletion of Template:County routes in Erie County, New York (129–160)

Template:County routes in Erie County, New York (129–160) has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. — This, that, and the other (talk) 01:33, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Distinguish the

Template:Distinguish the has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at ]. -DePiep (talk) 15:30, 17 January 2011 (UTC) --

All-inclusive categories

Whatever happened with trying to get rid of all-inclusive categories? Debresser (talk) 17:40, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Sabotaged by Fram who insists that they are "useful". Rich Farmbrough, 23:26, 17th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Where was the discussion? Debresser (talk) 23:35, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Template:Prior Rich Farmbrough, 01:50, 18th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Please comment

Please comment on Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_January_17#Category:Wikipedia_introduction_cleanup. Debresser (talk) 16:29, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

And on Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_January_17#Template:No_definition. Debresser (talk) 23:01, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

And on Template_talk:R_from_other_template#Mistake. Debresser (talk) 23:45, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Priority for 18 Jan

Clean the talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 02:47, 18th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Minor slip- big problems

Accidents happen. During your clean up of Kingston Mill, Stockport you changed the word Mill to ill in the Infobox template. This then orphaned the NFC image,. File:Kingston Mill, Stockport 0004.png‎ and the deletionistas at NFC tagged the image for destruction within 48 hours.See Misplaced Pages talk:Non-free content for the ongoing debate as to all the issues there that affect anyone that is documenting defunct companies. I have reverted the M and will follow the trail back to revert the tag. Thanks for your your other efforts though.--ClemRutter (talk) 09:34, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I have wondered about the wisdom of deleting orphaned fair use images. Thanks for your note. Rich Farmbrough, 13:53, 18th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Recent edits

Please respond to Fram's recent post on your talk page about current Smackbot editing. Rd232 15:02, 18 January 2011 (UTC) copied from User talk:SmackBot by Femto Bot, (possibly the smallest bot in the world) 15:05, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Cough cough. The {{citation needed}} redirect is at least on the AWB template list, but it still should not be done without a substantive other change. The infobox isn't even on the list. FFS, if you can't sort this out, sooner or later you're going to lose the right to make any AWB edits which aren't pre-approved specific simple tasks (like the unref removal above, Smackbot 43) - do you want that? Rd232 17:07, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Officeholder is to subtle for the AWB template list I believe. Rich Farmbrough, 00:27, 19th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Request

I made some moves and changes, as discussed in Template_talk:R_from_other_template#Mistake. There are 55 out of the more than 800 templates in Category:Redirects from warning templates that are protected. Could you edit them, please. This is an example of the most common edit I made. Debresser (talk) 15:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Debresser (talk) 15:49, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

On addition I noticed Category:Redirects to template from non-template namespace which has a empty cat notice, but as far as I understand, no template sorts therein, not even Template:R from other template which is mentioned specifically on the category page. So perhaps you could delete it? Debresser (talk) 15:31, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

This could be seen as a clean-up category, I see no problem with it existing. Rich Farmbrough, 15:33, 18th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

The reason it shouldn't exist is that it will never be populated. Debresser (talk) 15:45, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I nominated it for deletion here. Just thought it would be fair to let you state your opposition there as well. Debresser (talk) 19:37, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Please also see Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_January_18#Template:R_from_other_template. Debresser (talk) 15:48, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Your timestamp

Hello! Just a question: Is your personalized signature compatible with archiver bots (such as MiszaBot, ClueBot, etc)? Hey Mid (contribs) 15:27, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Depends how smart they are I suppose. Certainly Sine-Bot hasn't jumped in. Rich Farmbrough, 15:33, 18th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Is it worth taking the risk then? Though most threads have at least one or two "valid" timestamps, so it's not much of a problem. Hey Mid (contribs) 15:37, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

According to its user page, SineBot normally ignores editors with more than 800 edits on the assumption that they should know better. I doubt the archival bots recognize any date format for signatures other than the standard. Anomie ⚔ 17:25, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you're right – users who've been active here for a while don't have their unsigned posts automatically timestamped by SineBot. Hey Mid (contribs) 18:16, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 January 2011

News and notes: Anniversary celebrations; Foundation reports; local language problems; brief news

In the news: Anniversary coverage continues; Thai government translates Misplaced Pages; brief news

Sister projects: Upcoming steward elections, and a retrospective on stewards' work in 2010

WikiProject report: Talking wicket with WikiProject Cricket

Features and admins: First featured picture from the legally disputed NPG images; two Chicago icons

Arbitration report: New case: Shakespeare authorship question; lack of recent input in Longevity case

Technology report: January Engineering Update; Dutch Hack-a-ton; brief news

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 19:21, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Smackbot errors

this introduced a second references section, and still didn't fix the problem. This needs a references section, but despite the edit summary none was added. This produced a double references section header. This didn't solve the problem either. This adds the incorrect date parameters. As does this one. These are from checking the latest 25 edits only. Please stop. Fram (talk) 19:59, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Not again... Hey Mid (contribs) 20:01, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh yes, this again. Despite this listing of problems, Smackbot has made the exact same errors again, like here (unsubstituted date parameters) and here, where the same edit was done for the third time. The first two times were reversed by Debresser, Rich Farmbrough corrected his own third edit. But the ones from my previous post are not corrected, and as evidenced new problems are added to it. Fram (talk) 22:37, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Random Smiley Award

For your contributions to Misplaced Pages and humanity in general, you are hereby granted the coveted Random Smiley Award.
(Explanation and Disclaimer)

♠TomasBat 02:14, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Cheering at 2:14 in the morning! Rich Farmbrough, 02:15, 19th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

U-Vistract---a little help

re U-Vistract I am new to writing articles, and I would appreciate a little more guidance. You ask for more reference. I listed 23. You don't think that is enough? Are there specific parts that you feel are deficient? Thx Camdoc2001 (talk) 02:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Copied to appropriate place. Rich Farmbrough, 02:57, 19th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Also:

Y Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 02:57, 19th day of January in the year 2011 (UTC).

Revision as of 02:57, 19 January 2011

Nudges

About bots and categories - clarify request

Italic titles

Railway

More

Printworthy

SmackBot duplicate tags feature request

Minor issues

DNB

Risk list bot

Misplaced Pages talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs#Authentical plugin?

Bibliographies

IPA dump search

Note to self

Burma

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/Femto Bot 4

Norway

Respond eh? See voo play? :p

Villages, North Cyprus

Re: Misplaced Pages:Database reports/Unlisted stub types

Revive Wildbot?

List of townlands of County Cork

You Blog

Template:Infobox wine region

Years pages

Removing noinclude tags

infoboxes

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/Mirror Bot

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot 37

Project Stamford

The Signpost: 3 January 2011

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot 41

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot 42

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot 43

Status update: Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests for approval/Femto Bot 4

Femto Bot 4

Portal:Stamford

Nomination for deletion of Template:Portal/Images/Wikipedia essays

A lot of duplicate albums categories

Template:Lfpfr

Happy tenth!

Happy 10th

Edit notice at Colony High School (Alaska)

Nomination for deletion of Template:County routes in Erie County, New York (129–160)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Distinguish the

All-inclusive categories

Please comment

Priority for 18 Jan

Other uses problem

Minor slip- big problems

Recent edits

Request

Your timestamp

The Signpost: 17 January 2011

Smackbot errors

Random Smiley Award

U-Vistract---a little help