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WikiXDC: Misplaced Pages 10th Birthday!

You are invited to WikiXDC, a special meetup event and celebration on Saturday, January 22 hosted by the National Archives and Records Administration in downtown Washington, D.C.

• Date: January 22, 2011 (tentatively 9:30 AM - 5 PM)
• Location: National Archives and Records Administration (NARA), downtown building, Pennsylvania Avenue & 7th St NW.
• Description: There will be a behind-the-scenes tour of the National Archives and you will learn more about what NARA does. We will also have a mini-film screening featuring FedFlix videos along with a special message from Jimmy Wales. In the afternoon, there will be lightning talks by Wikimedians (signup to speak), wiki-trivia, and cupcakes to celebrate!
• Details & RSVP: Details about the event are on our Washington, DC tenwiki page.

Please RSVP soon as possible, as there likely will be a cap on number of attendees that NARA can accommodate.

Note: You can unsubscribe from DC meetup notices by removing your name at Misplaced Pages:Meetup/DC/Invite/List. BrownBot (talk) 01:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Books anything but simple

Carol, as you may not know, google books doesn't provide the same level of within book viewing between various states. Was Boaz the author of that chapter in Boaz? Fifelfoo_m (talk) 02:02, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I shouldn't have just copied editor in cause when checked realized that Boaz not editor but author of whole book. As the "about" testified. Also, sometimes one can double check factoids on "Look inside" if it's available on Amazon.com. CarolMooreDC (talk) 02:09, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

the version linked to prior to my run through was structurally part of the CATO web exerpts of The Primer. I obviously have a very large irritation towards the editor who provided such a half arsed citation. Excuse my en_au but bad citation shits me to tears because it cuts off rational debate and turns sourcing into shitty argumentum ad autoritum Fifelfoo_m (talk) 04:47, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

yes, it can be frustrating. But it took me two years before started using books google, and 6 months to figure out how to do it halfway right. CarolMooreDC (talk) 05:14, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments

I made some comments at User_talk:Spaceclerk#ANI which partly discusses you, I feel it is only fair to give you a heads up on the mention :) --Errant 15:58, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:05, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

COIN

Per feedback, I have moved my concerns to WP:COIN. I think it will be best for both of us to get these concerns resolved on the merits once and for all. Jehochman 20:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

In contrast to my mere POV issues, hopefully these real COIN concerns about you will be addressed, as I wrote at the WP:Conflict of interest noticeboard. More at your talk page. CarolMooreDC (talk) 21:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I didn't see anything at my talk page. I only edit for education, amusement or procrastination. It's a weird hobby. Most of what catches my attention are things like U-853, Russian submarine K-152 Nerpa, Gamma ray burst, Battle of Coral Sea, often related to WWII, Cold War, astronomy or Internet technology. Jehochman 04:35, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Patience. I have so much to learn from Kenilworth Terrace :-) CarolMooreDC (talk) 13:06, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Would you mind, please, striking an accusations you've made against me until such time as you have the evidence to back them up? Thank you. I'll admit that the COI case against you is not very strong. The matter is really an appearance of WP:ADVOCACY, which is an area of evolving policy. I hope you are willing to listen to feedback and possibly make modifications in your approach. (I won't determine that; somebody uninvolved like Kenilworth is who you should listen to.) And if you feel like I'm being unfair to you at any point, please leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Jehochman 15:10, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Be specific. I already struck a couple things that are more appropriately brought up in an COIN I might do against you. (But only if actual evidence should show itself. I haven't even asked a question on your talk page yet.) Also, your approach of screaming bigotry instead of dealing with real issues in an NPOV way isn't working out too good, as I know others have told you by now on 2 or 3 boards and the talk page, but I don't feel like searching out all the diffs. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:15, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, I made a guess about what recent comment you meant. Feel free to think about what you meant for when and if I get around to officially asking you on your talk page. I'd rather work on improving articles, personally. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:36, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate a lot of your efforts to improve articles. I hope we can get along in spite of the fact that we occasionally have strong editorial disagreements. Jehochman 15:49, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Clarification

You asked about this diff. What I meant was the our definition of WP:COI has fuzzy edges. It is often hard to classify whether editing is COI, or WP:UNDUE or WP:SOAP (see WP:ADVOCACY for a more nuanced description). Your thoughts and criticism on these issues is welcomed. Misplaced Pages policies in these areas are complex and evolving. Jehochman 15:47, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

If it's difficult, than don't go rushing to WP:COIN, especially when you haven't gone to my talk page to ask me first, according to WP:COI last time I read it. Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality board

Point of order, I think it would go to miscellany for deletion, no? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:43, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. That should stick in my mind since I just archived something quick that was deleted through that. I'll give it some time. CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:45, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Your COI concerns on my talk page

No. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 20:28, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

FYI

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 20:54, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

January 2011

Template:Z8

This was far beyond the pale.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:37, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

please use this time to evaluate your role in wp. i hope in the future you will direct your energy toward content. there is a chance you have become too enthusiastic in enforcing your understanding of wp policy. Darkstar1st (talk) 21:52, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Unblock request

Carolmooredc (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

While I don’t have a problem with a short block of a week or so for my failure to think straight under the circumstances, I feel that three months is unjustly long, given the lack of administrative response when I went to Wikiquette about harassment this week and another editor went to WP:ANI with related concerns. So do many of the editors at the relevant WP:ANI

Notes:

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{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2=(''Trying to correct per complaints as template suggests I can''): I realize that all the harassment I was putting up with this week ''from a number of users in a number of places'' was '''not''' an excuse for a) thinking the best place and way to approach just one user I had an issue with was an explicit WP:COI question on his talk page which made ''highly negative assumptions about his personal behavior because of the areas in which he was editing and attacked him based on those assumptions''; b) not realizing that Wikia, even if owned by Jimmy Wales, is an Off-Wiki site; and c) assuming that because another editor linked there ] and posted controversial links from[REDACTED] editors there, it was OK for me to link to my WP:COI question there. (I have asked the originator of the Wikia page to take it down, both at the page and via email, so no one else gets in trouble.) While I don’t have a problem with a short block of a week or so for my failure to think straight under the circumstances, I feel that three months is unjustly long, given the lack of administrative response when ] this week and another editor went to ]. So do many of the editors at ] I certainly do not want this to happen again and will have to continue to look for appropriate venues to ask for help when harassment issues arise long before it gets to the point I lose my temper and common sense. If there is some Misplaced Pages administrative group that advises people on dealing with this sort of thing, I’m very sorry I missed it. If there isn’t, maybe one could be created. Thanks for your attention. ] (]) 17:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}

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{{unblock reviewed |1=(''Trying to correct per complaints as template suggests I can''): I realize that all the harassment I was putting up with this week ''from a number of users in a number of places'' was '''not''' an excuse for a) thinking the best place and way to approach just one user I had an issue with was an explicit WP:COI question on his talk page which made ''highly negative assumptions about his personal behavior because of the areas in which he was editing and attacked him based on those assumptions''; b) not realizing that Wikia, even if owned by Jimmy Wales, is an Off-Wiki site; and c) assuming that because another editor linked there ] and posted controversial links from[REDACTED] editors there, it was OK for me to link to my WP:COI question there. (I have asked the originator of the Wikia page to take it down, both at the page and via email, so no one else gets in trouble.) While I don’t have a problem with a short block of a week or so for my failure to think straight under the circumstances, I feel that three months is unjustly long, given the lack of administrative response when ] this week and another editor went to ]. So do many of the editors at ] I certainly do not want this to happen again and will have to continue to look for appropriate venues to ask for help when harassment issues arise long before it gets to the point I lose my temper and common sense. If there is some Misplaced Pages administrative group that advises people on dealing with this sort of thing, I’m very sorry I missed it. If there isn’t, maybe one could be created. Thanks for your attention. ] (]) 17:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC) |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}

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{{unblock reviewed |1=(''Trying to correct per complaints as template suggests I can''): I realize that all the harassment I was putting up with this week ''from a number of users in a number of places'' was '''not''' an excuse for a) thinking the best place and way to approach just one user I had an issue with was an explicit WP:COI question on his talk page which made ''highly negative assumptions about his personal behavior because of the areas in which he was editing and attacked him based on those assumptions''; b) not realizing that Wikia, even if owned by Jimmy Wales, is an Off-Wiki site; and c) assuming that because another editor linked there ] and posted controversial links from[REDACTED] editors there, it was OK for me to link to my WP:COI question there. (I have asked the originator of the Wikia page to take it down, both at the page and via email, so no one else gets in trouble.) While I don’t have a problem with a short block of a week or so for my failure to think straight under the circumstances, I feel that three months is unjustly long, given the lack of administrative response when ] this week and another editor went to ]. So do many of the editors at ] I certainly do not want this to happen again and will have to continue to look for appropriate venues to ask for help when harassment issues arise long before it gets to the point I lose my temper and common sense. If there is some Misplaced Pages administrative group that advises people on dealing with this sort of thing, I’m very sorry I missed it. If there isn’t, maybe one could be created. Thanks for your attention. ] (]) 17:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

I would conditionally support an unblock or shortening. The condition is that Carolmooredc has stop talking about other people in her unblock request, and agree to cease all battlefield-style activity. If she is just going to come back and start slagging people (myself included) again, filing retaliatory noticeboard threads, and making baseless or retaliatory accusations, then unblocking can't be done yet. Any wrongdoing by people is irrelevant to her own unblock request. She has to stop trying to shift blame to other people. This type of projection is exactly what lead to the block. If she wants to edit hot topics related to race, religion and ethnic conflicts, she has to keep cool, and she has to be ready to deal with questions about her possible biases without going to DEFCON 1. Jehochman 18:09, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't see her shifting the blame. It seems like she's accepted responsibility for losing her temper, stated that what she did off-wiki was inappropriate, and that she cared enough that she took the time/effort to email the site admin to takedown the offensive content. She's owned up to what she's done, explained its origins, and is ready to move on and get back to editing. Given how productive of an editor she is, it is absurd to have a punitive 3-month block on her account, now that she's acknowledged that it is a mistake, and that she won't do it again.

But it seems that in addition to this, she is also asking you and other users who have been hounding her about her personal/political views and what she does in her personal life, to stop; and also to stop insinuating that she's anti-Semitic. This is what you are calling "shifting the blame". But that's inaccurate. In reality she's simply asking you to accept responsibility for your own actions, which played every bit as much of a role in this conflict as hers did. She's asking you and other editors who have been hounding her ((Such as User:Darkstar1st, whose recent edit warring blocks, talk page I'd highly suggest people taking a look at, especially regarding his history with CarolMooreDC at Talk:Libertarianism, and his tendency to falsely label people anti-Semitic and misrepresent disputes)) to accept responsibility for your actions, and to stop badgering her about her politics and implying that she's anti-Semitic. This seems like a fair and reasonable request to me. It seems to me that you do need to "keep cool" with the aspersions regarding anti-Semitism and "advocacy", and stop portraying yourselves as neutral observers who are simply trying to remove "anti-American POV", while CarolMooreDC is just your typical career left-wing anti-semitic(?) activist, who is unable to remain neutral (like you, of course). Doing so will help resolve the dispute. -- Jrtayloriv (talk) 19:15, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

There does not appear to have been consensus for a block, or at least a long block, at ANI. TFD (talk) 18:11, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I continue to reject the allegations of "harassment" of CarolMooreDC by me. These repeated unsunbstantiated accusations seem to constitute further harassment of me per WP:AOHA. Does CarolMooreDC accept that her posting on my talk page was, and was intended to be, an unjustified grossly personally offensive attack?

I have commented further at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Unblock_request. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 18:26, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I would urge that Carolmooredc not be unblocked until she figures out what was wrong with asking "if you are financially benefiting yourself by engaging in a little written free sadism against a female".--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

"too personal" was not the issue. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:43, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

No, I don't think you do. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

That last change was heading in the right direction, at least. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:09, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

oppose unblock, support block carol appears to have much knowledge of wp:policy, the block is fitting the offence. Darkstar1st (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support reduction of block. While I generally support the imposition of blocks for personal attacks, I think a 3 month block for a first offense without a warning may be a bit excessive. Especially now that the user has retracted the attack, apologized, and pledged to work through dispute resolution venues in the future. Kaldari (talk) 19:38, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support reduction of block mostly per Kaldari. I generally think that duration of a block should roughly match the timescale of the disruption leading to it. Considering the overall pattern of CM's editing over the last several days, which to me shows clear evidence of disruptive battleground behaviour, I think one week is appropriate. I am not convinced that an immediate unblock would not lead to a resumption of the behaviour, even though the proximate issue has been addressed. Franamax (talk) 20:32, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Question from Jrtayloriv

Carol -- Just to alleviate people's concerns that you don't understand why what you did was wrong, could you answer the following:

1. Do you acknowledge that your personal attacks towards User:Kenilworth Terrace were totally inappropriate and unneccessary?
2. Why do you feel these attacks were inappropriate?
3. What are you going to do differently in the future if you feel you are being harassed by a group of editors?

Thanks, Jrtayloriv (talk) 19:22, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

First, I just realized via your question that I could answer here. (Assuming it saves.)

1. Yes, I finally get that my attacks were totally inappropriate and unneccessary? I confess I did not at first, even this morning.
2. I realize I made inappropriate attacks after looking at his contributions and assuming some highly speculative personal motivation and then asking him about it in an offensive way. I would not be at all surprised if others have made negative assumptions about me based on looking at my contributions history and attacked me, so the user does have my sincere sympathies and apologies.
3. What to do differently when groups go after me? Write a better Wikiquette naming several people? Go to WP:ANI naming several people? Do User:RfCs naming several people? That is where I admit I need further advice - i.e., when the harassment continues, even despite one or more editors or admins warning the harasser(s).
4. Since a 7.5 year old off wiki email is often the focus of harassment, and so far the advice is not to go into detail about it, I don't know how to defend the recurrent references to it. Let me say again, it was a stupid, overly generalized and exaggerated response to weeks of harassment and threats, but certainly not written with some evil bigoted intent. I feel that a lengthy correction of it complete with refs about then existing specific incidents/issues/etc, or stating in detail my current views, would be inappropriate, even on my user page and doubtless lead to more accusations by people who have a different POV. But if there's some policy on this that I missed, I sure wish people would help me out with that. CarolMooreDC (talk) 20:02, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carol — though I don't know about every detail of this, I wanted to say something more in general. There are certain people who will always point to stuff that happened in the past (7.5 years ago should be proof enough); they will never let go of it, and their goal seems to be to get rid of you, no matter what you say or try. In this case, as difficult as it may be, your only option is to ignore it. Don't even bother filing a complaint, don't bother going to any noticeboard. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 20:20, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Apology accepted. Thank you. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 20:45, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• Requests for unblock