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:::: Pârvan in Getica: pp 54-55 (1982 edition) or 88-89 (1926 edtion): "Am avea deci regatul lui Roles Între Durostonlln-Abritus-Axiopolis, '''regatul lui Dapyx spre Capidava-Carsium, cu interiorul spre Ulmetum-Histria (e de fapt aici cel de-al doilea mare centru dacic al Dobrogei: territorium Capidavense)'''. --] (]) 01:38, 1 April 2011 (UTC) :::: Pârvan in Getica: pp 54-55 (1982 edition) or 88-89 (1926 edtion): "Am avea deci regatul lui Roles Între Durostonlln-Abritus-Axiopolis, '''regatul lui Dapyx spre Capidava-Carsium, cu interiorul spre Ulmetum-Histria (e de fapt aici cel de-al doilea mare centru dacic al Dobrogei: territorium Capidavense)'''. --] (]) 01:38, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
::::: Three of your four sources only say there was pre-Roman settlement. Nothing about fortifications. The "fortified" part is your OR. The rest of your reply is sophistry. ] (]) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC) ::::: Three of your four sources only say there was pre-Roman settlement. Nothing about fortifications. The "fortified" part is your OR. The rest of your reply is sophistry. ] (]) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I added the POV tag for the emphasis on "Geto-Dacians" and the undue weight given to some minority/obsolete views. Examples:
:* The article starts with Capidava was Geto-Dacian settlement. Wrong! Most sources (including those quoted for the "Geto-Dacian settlement") emphasize it was first and foremost a Roman fort. The pre-Roman settlement might have not been in the same place (see above "la o oarecare distanta de cetate").
:* The modern village Capidava only recently was renamed that way, the article misleads the reader to believe there's a sort of continuity.
:* It is POV, but also it goes against ] by mentioning Calidava as a valid name in the lead (wheres this is a scribal error).
:* It mentions Dacians attested epigraphically, but no Romans at all. Moreover that mention falls under ], because Tsinna, Zura et Tsiru, the sons of Bassus, raised that epitaph in the Roman fort Capidava, not in a "Dacian town" as presented in the article.
:* Many statements are supported only by obsolete refs. E.g. "By 130-150 AD the former Dacian center Capidava was already Romanized" (Pârvan), whereas all the recent refs state clearly Capidava was a Roman fort built by Trajan. ] (]) 02:16, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

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This article contains a translation of Capidava from ro.wikipedia.

Geto-Dacian center ?

To my best knowledge, nobody could archaeologically prove that a Getic settlement pre-dated the Roman fort, which is dated anyway only to the time of the Dacian wars, much later that the establishment of the Roman rule over the region. I don't consider the name enough to call this Roman fort Geto-Dacian (sic). Is there any source supporting such claim?Anonimu (talk) 22:40, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

The article is still under works so more content is planned to be added along this lines. There are Dacian ceramics and objects, some in the Constanta Museum. Planning to add pictures and content on that. But for one, check the Dacian town section. It is properly sourced and clarifies that statement. The city name is obviously Geto-Dacian, and unlike other davae it withstand the test of time. That says something too. --Codrin.B (talk) 15:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Any source for Dacian ceramics pre-dating the Roman fort? The Getic name doesn't confirm a pre-existent settlement on the spot, it's just that a rather late Getic toponym for a Roman fort. As for withstanding the test of time, as basically every Roman settlement in the region (excepting the dubious claims about Harsova and Constanta), no ancient name was preserved. So the name only says that the Romanian authorities didn't like the name Calachioi for one of the best preserved Roman forts on the Romanian controlled part of the Danube, so they decided to resurrect an ancient name.Anonimu (talk) 15:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
If you are genuinely interested in the subject and want to be constructive, let's search for them together. I am working on that. --Codrin.B (talk) 18:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


According to scholars, the Dacian Capidava is correctly identified. I didn’t find any doubt among them. Boldwin (talk) 00:03, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Sources from 90 years ago? In the mean time over 20 archaeological missions have studied Capidava and found no trace of a pre-Roman settlements on the spot. I suggest you update your knowledge base... we're not in the 1930s you know.Anonimu (talk) 08:31, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Do you have any reliable source that is doubting the Dacian Capidava's location at the current identified spot of Topalu commune ? Boldwin (talk) 10:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
If there is no newer research proving the 90 years old knowledge wrong, the sources are just fine. Not only fine, but good as the information came from reliable, respected archaeologists like Pârvan, Florescu and most recently Opriş who spent a lot of their time on site. --Codrin.B (talk) 03:00, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

The article currently says "fortified Geto-Dacian center". But the two more recent sources do not support that claim:

  •  : (assumed) pre-Roman settlements, Roman fort ("mici garnizoane romane s-au instalat in vechile asezari dacice de pe malul Dunarii, intre altele si la Capidava", "Imparatul Traian, in cadrul pregatirilor razboaielor daco-romane avea sa construiasca, cu detasamente ale Legiunilor V Macedonica de la Troesmis si XI Claudia de la Durostorum un castellum pe stanca de la Capidava" a.k.a. "fortul de la Capidava", "Toponimul getic de Capidava - insemnand cetatea de la cotitura- confirma o locuire preromana, pozitia geografica deosebita explicand insemnatatea asezarii bastinase, loc care permitea comunicatia intre dacii din Dobrogea si cei din Campia Munteana")
  • : "The camp was raised in early 2nd century, duirng Emperor Trajan's reign, as a defence element of the Danubian limes. Capidava must have been built by a detachment of Legion XI Claudia, brought by Trajan to Durostorum after the conquest of Dacia." (nothing about a pre-Roman camp/fort/etc) On the same site, there's this text, translated after Opriş (see the previous ref): "old Dacian settlements", "mperor Trajan would build a castellum on the cliff at Capidava the fort at Cpidava". And here is the research history, as you can see it's all about Roman and Byzantine periods. Daizus (talk) 16:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Roman Capidava took its name from the nearby old Geto-Dacic dava ‘settlement’ Florescu and Miclea (1980)
Here: http://www.capidava.ro/territorium.php it can be seen Suceveanu's opinion ( 1991 p. 31, 51-52, 55)) about the nearby (civitas ?; vicus ?) pre-Roman settlement related to the traco-getic name....Boldwin (talk) 18:20, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
And how is that proving the pre-Roman settlement was fortified, as stated in the lead? Also Suceveanu doesn't say "nearby" but "la o oarecare distanta de cetate". Daizus (talk) 23:02, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Daizus, leaving aside ancient sources, common sense and logic, there are four (!) archaeologists and historians who spent significant times of there careers at Capidava, and who saying "Geto-Dacian center". Are you accusing all of them of OR? This is ridiculous.
Regarding sources specifically, this is from capidava.ro, by Opris in 2006 (!). I will cite directly the paper, if citing the site is confusing and makes it hard to find the info.
Regarding being a Roman center, of courses it is! But this doesn't meant it wasn't a Dacian center before. They are not mutually exclusive. Your quotes above prove nothing and the info is already used in the Roman section of the article.--Codrin.B (talk) 01:08, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
The cimec source says this "The Getic toponym of Capidava - meaning the curve fortified settlement - confirms a pre-Roman dwelling, while the special geographic position explains the significance of the local settlement, a place that made possible the communication between the Dacians in Dobrudja and those in the Wallachian Plain. Tabula Peutingeriana provided accurate data on the distances between Axiopolis, Capidava and Carsium. These distances coincide with the distances between the present localities of Hinog - Capidava and Capidava - Harşova. The check on the table can be made through the uncovering of a marking pillar in the locality of Seimenii Mici that indicates the distance of 18,000 feet from Axiopolis to Capidava, that is 27 km."
Pârvan in Getica: pp 54-55 (1982 edition) or 88-89 (1926 edtion): "Am avea deci regatul lui Roles Între Durostonlln-Abritus-Axiopolis, regatul lui Dapyx spre Capidava-Carsium, cu interiorul spre Ulmetum-Histria (e de fapt aici cel de-al doilea mare centru dacic al Dobrogei: territorium Capidavense). --Codrin.B (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Three of your four sources only say there was pre-Roman settlement. Nothing about fortifications. The "fortified" part is your OR. The rest of your reply is sophistry. Daizus (talk) 01:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I added the POV tag for the emphasis on "Geto-Dacians" and the undue weight given to some minority/obsolete views. Examples:

  • The article starts with Capidava was Geto-Dacian settlement. Wrong! Most sources (including those quoted for the "Geto-Dacian settlement") emphasize it was first and foremost a Roman fort. The pre-Roman settlement might have not been in the same place (see above "la o oarecare distanta de cetate").
  • The modern village Capidava only recently was renamed that way, the article misleads the reader to believe there's a sort of continuity.
  • It is POV, but also it goes against WP:PSTS by mentioning Calidava as a valid name in the lead (wheres this is a scribal error).
  • It mentions Dacians attested epigraphically, but no Romans at all. Moreover that mention falls under WP:OR, because Tsinna, Zura et Tsiru, the sons of Bassus, raised that epitaph in the Roman fort Capidava, not in a "Dacian town" as presented in the article.
  • Many statements are supported only by obsolete refs. E.g. "By 130-150 AD the former Dacian center Capidava was already Romanized" (Pârvan), whereas all the recent refs state clearly Capidava was a Roman fort built by Trajan. Daizus (talk) 02:16, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
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