| Revision as of 13:12, 15 July 2011 editRobertcurrey (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users933 edits →Note 90← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:32, 16 July 2011 edit undoPseudo-Richard (talk | contribs)27,682 edits →Economic antisemitism: Regarding your recent comment on Orangemarlin's Talk PageNext edit → | ||
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| == Economic antisemitism == | == Economic antisemitism == | ||
| I wonder if you would take a look at a ]that I'm working on. If this looks familiar, it is because I started by taking Noleander's] article and hacking at it, throwing out a lot of irrelevant and even dubious material but keeping stuff that was relevant to the topic. (see the edit summaries to get a sense for what I mean). The more I work with Noleander's ] text, the more I stumble over problematic passages. | I wonder if you would take a look at a ] that I'm working on. If this looks familiar, it is because I started by taking Noleander's] article and hacking at it, throwing out a lot of irrelevant and even dubious material but keeping stuff that was relevant to the topic. (see the edit summaries to get a sense for what I mean). The more I work with Noleander's ] text, the more I stumble over problematic passages. | ||
| The thing is... the ] article doesn't really take on these issues head-on and give them adequate treatment. My proposed article will do that but I need some feedback as to whether my draft article is headed in the right direction and I would really appreciate input as to how to improve it. | The thing is... the ] article doesn't really take on these issues head-on and give them adequate treatment. My proposed article will do that but I need some feedback as to whether my draft article is headed in the right direction and I would really appreciate input as to how to improve it. | ||
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| :--] (]) 15:42, 1 July 2011 (UTC) | :--] (]) 15:42, 1 July 2011 (UTC) | ||
| When you have time, I would appreciate it if you would take another look at my article which I have now moved into article mainspace under the title ]. Suggestions for improvement would be much appreciated at ]. | When you have time, I would appreciate it if you would take another look at my article which I have now moved into article mainspace under the title ]. Suggestions for improvement would be much appreciated at ]. | ||
| Thank you. --] (]) 07:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC) | Thank you. --] (]) 07:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC) | ||
| :PR...slr is much more competent about these issues than I ever will be. I don't have access to most of the sources, and frankly, my background is in science. If this were an article on how antisemitism had an effect on biochemistry, I probably could do it. slr is your man for this. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 00:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC) | :PR...slr is much more competent about these issues than I ever will be. I don't have access to most of the sources, and frankly, my background is in science. If this were an article on how antisemitism had an effect on biochemistry, I probably could do it. slr is your man for this. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 00:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC) | ||
| :::Slrubenstein, regarding your recent post on Orangemarlin's Talk Page, perhaps you have not read the recent discussion where Orangemarlin explained that he was undergoing major heart surgery that had a low probability of survival. This surgery was scheduled for last Monday and we have not heard from him since. Of course, we all hope that he survived the surgery and is recuperating in ICU but we have no information one way or the other. | |||
| :::As for your suggestion that the next step is an RFC, I am certainly open to that. What I'd like to ask is how you would phrase the RFC. Might I ask that you draft the RFC and invite me to comment before you issue it? You are, of course, under no obligation to do so but I'm hoping that we could collaborate to improve the quality of responses we get. | |||
| :::You have criticized my research methods. I acknowledge that this is not the way to do academic research but I assert that my methods are equal to or better than most work that is done at Misplaced Pages. I don't think an RFC on this topic will be very fruitful. | |||
| :::On a different tack, Jayjg has raised the question of whether "economic antisemitism" is a phrase that is widely used. A search of Google Books suggests that it is much less used than "racial antisemitism" or "religious antisemitism" so the question seems to be "Is it used enough to warrant there being a Misplaced Pages article on it?". I think so but Jayjg's comments seem to imply that he does not. | |||
| :::Jayjg also asserted that "economic antisemitism" is not part of any of the "standard taxonomies" but did not respond when I asked what those "standard taxonomies" are and how they differed from the ones that are mentioned in the ] article. I'm open to being shown that there are taxonomies that do not mention "economic antisemitism". I haven't seen any but that might be because Google Search provides positive results (i.e. it's easier to search for sources that mention "economic antisemitism" than it is to search for sources that don't). | |||
| :::Are your issues with the article different from the ones listed above? | |||
| :::--] (]) 19:32, 16 July 2011 (UTC) | |||
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Note 90
Note 90 is not a historian/anthropologist/sociologist of religion or the occult, and does not seem to use the word divination. I couldn't understand this reference on the Astrology Main page, but I thought I would ask you rather than clutter the discussion, assuming everyone else knows what it is. Thanks and thanks for your contribution on the page. Please leave a message on my Talk Page. Robert Currey talk 20:06, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for your reply - where can I find Note 90? - is there a link? It is the first time I have seen it mentioned on the page.
- I agree the source for the definition should be authoritative - which is either from a scholar or reputable publication. However, I believe that it should be one that is acceptable to the majority of the practitioners and the current definition is ideal for a minority, but inadequate for most astrologers. Robert Currey talk 20:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- I am sorry I still don't get it. Where are the numbered Notes? Are these a list of comments on the Talk Page? Are these the footnotes on the main page? Are you able to give me a link, please? Robert Currey talk 21:38, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Ahh! I think you were referring the footnote in the main astrology page. I thought that at first, but the Geoffrey Cornelius quote didn't seem to relate to divination, so I ruled it out. Robert Currey talk 22:27, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
- Since you contributed to the debate on whether divination is the most appropriate term to define astrology in the first sentence, I wanted to let you know that I have asked for a straw poll on the astrology discussion page to find out whether we should seek alternatives (without specifying the wording at this stage) or we should keep divination. Robert Currey talk 22:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
Economic antisemitism
I wonder if you would take a look at a draft article that I'm working on. If this looks familiar, it is because I started by taking Noleander'sJews and money article and hacking at it, throwing out a lot of irrelevant and even dubious material but keeping stuff that was relevant to the topic. (see the edit summaries to get a sense for what I mean). The more I work with Noleander's Jews and money text, the more I stumble over problematic passages.
The thing is... the Antisemitism article doesn't really take on these issues head-on and give them adequate treatment. My proposed article will do that but I need some feedback as to whether my draft article is headed in the right direction and I would really appreciate input as to how to improve it.
I am particularly concerned about the section titled "Historical development" which I suspect may be too long and too detailed. Still, I didn't want to throw it all out without getting some input from other editors. --Pseudo-Richard (talk) 05:13, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for your thoughtful response on my Talk Page. It is by far and away the fullest and most thoughtful response that I have received to date. I have moved your comments to User talk:Pseudo-Richard/Economic antisemitism so that they will remain with the article if and when it is ultimately moved to article mainspace. (Question: do you think the draft is ready to move into article mainspace in its current condition?)
- I am gratified that you saw value in the draft article and did not have a knee-jerk response of rejecting it because it incorporated text from Noleander's disastrous attempt to write an article on Jews and money.
- I am not prepared to address in detail each of the points you made. I will need to digest them for a bit and do some additional research. However, I would like to point out that I have recently made some changes to the Antisemitism article which fit right in with some of your points. When you have time, please look at the (incomplete) section on "Forms" as well as the new introduction to the "History" section.
- I think the "six stages of development" model that Jerome Chanes puts forth is very close to what you were talking about in your comments. While there is some evidence of anti-Judaism as far back as the ancient Egyptians and the pre-Christian Greeks and Romans, there is a clear change when Christianity adds religious anti-Judaism to what had hitherto been primarily an ethnic/cultural anti-Judaism. I haven't found a consensus among the sources as to how and when this ethnic/cultural/religious anti-Judaism turned into anti-semitism. This is an area that I have not read enough about.
- The key here is that anti-semitism grows during the medieval era to the point where Jews are targeted during the ramp-up to Crusades and are expelled from Iberia.
- Although one might expect the emancipation of the Jews to have ended antisemitism, it is argued that antisemitism transformed during the 19th century, culminating in the antisemitism of Nazi Germany which was an amalgam of economic, cultural and racial antisemitism.
- I will continue to work on developing these ideas in the Antisemitism and History of antisemitism articles. However, my focus for the time being is on the Economic antisemitism article.
- Thanks again for your helpful comments. When you have time, I would appreciate your further thoughts for improving any of the related articles.
When you have time, I would appreciate it if you would take another look at my article which I have now moved into article mainspace under the title Economic antisemitism. Suggestions for improvement would be much appreciated at Talk:Economic antisemitism. Thank you. --Pseudo-Richard (talk) 07:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
- PR...slr is much more competent about these issues than I ever will be. I don't have access to most of the sources, and frankly, my background is in science. If this were an article on how antisemitism had an effect on biochemistry, I probably could do it. slr is your man for this. OrangeMarlin 00:06, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
- Slrubenstein, regarding your recent post on Orangemarlin's Talk Page, perhaps you have not read the recent discussion where Orangemarlin explained that he was undergoing major heart surgery that had a low probability of survival. This surgery was scheduled for last Monday and we have not heard from him since. Of course, we all hope that he survived the surgery and is recuperating in ICU but we have no information one way or the other.
- As for your suggestion that the next step is an RFC, I am certainly open to that. What I'd like to ask is how you would phrase the RFC. Might I ask that you draft the RFC and invite me to comment before you issue it? You are, of course, under no obligation to do so but I'm hoping that we could collaborate to improve the quality of responses we get.
- You have criticized my research methods. I acknowledge that this is not the way to do academic research but I assert that my methods are equal to or better than most work that is done at Misplaced Pages. I don't think an RFC on this topic will be very fruitful.
- On a different tack, Jayjg has raised the question of whether "economic antisemitism" is a phrase that is widely used. A search of Google Books suggests that it is much less used than "racial antisemitism" or "religious antisemitism" so the question seems to be "Is it used enough to warrant there being a Misplaced Pages article on it?". I think so but Jayjg's comments seem to imply that he does not.
- Jayjg also asserted that "economic antisemitism" is not part of any of the "standard taxonomies" but did not respond when I asked what those "standard taxonomies" are and how they differed from the ones that are mentioned in the Antisemitism article. I'm open to being shown that there are taxonomies that do not mention "economic antisemitism". I haven't seen any but that might be because Google Search provides positive results (i.e. it's easier to search for sources that mention "economic antisemitism" than it is to search for sources that don't).
- Are your issues with the article different from the ones listed above?