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"Was this reviewed?"

On Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals) you wrote:

... much of the burden of revieweing edits could be improved with better tools. For example, I would love to know if one of my trusted collegues has already reviewed the same edit I'm reviewing. This would greatly reduce my review burden, and allow me to monitor many, many, many more articles. linas 23:35, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Fantastic idea. Do you know whether there is some ongoing discussion on such things? (Feel free to reply here; I'm watching this page.) — Nowhither 18:36, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I suspect there is, but I know not where. I have noticed that the wikimedia software made an attempt at implementing something like this, but it was either a hack or mis-designed or incomplete. You can see this on newer wikimedia sites, for example . If you look at edit histories, you'll see red exclamation marks denoting unreviewed pages. But you'll also notice that any sockpuppet can reset them, ... so it really doesn't work correctly. So it seems someone thought about it, but I don't know what the status is, or where its going, or who is doing it. You'll have to look up the wikimedia folks.

Anyway, what I really want is actually fancier than what I wrote at the village pump, but I thought I'd keep it simple. I'd happily engage in a conversation with the wikimedia developers if you can locate them. linas 04:01, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

To clarify: This site runs the latest version of the wikimedia software, but the review system is turned off because it hurts performance. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 11:23, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, it could be written as a fancy SQL query, and that would make the lights dim. Is this MySQL or Postgres? I'm guessing there are ways to make this more efficient, by using status bits of various kinds, requiring table redesigns. No matter, I didn't like the way the red exclamation marks worked anyway; they weren't really useful. linas 14:20, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

The WikiMedia sites are using MySQL. I was wrong by the way: the feature that you described is called "RC patrol", it's described on m:Help:Patrolled edit, and it seems that it was turned off because anybody could mark an edit as patrolled (as you already noticed, see also this mail and replies). I was confusing it with the m:Article validation feature, which is a more elaborate scheme that is disabled for performance reasons. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 15:05, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, thanks for the links, I'll have to prowl around there a bit. My other bit of patrol paranoia is that it is easy to review only the most recent change; thus a "bad edit" could be hidden in the history and overlooked. Thus, I'd prefer to see *all* changes since I last looked. linas 04:01, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you could add WP:WPCS to your watch list

Since you wrote a fairly large amount of material in this area, I think your participation in some discussions would be very valuable. Having seen articles like lambda calculus degraded, I empathize with your concerns here. In WP:WPM it appears that a sufficient number of expert editors have formed a critical mass, so that WP:RANDYs don't have much luck in degrading most Math articles. Despite what the official policies might say, WP:CONSENSUS is often a game of numbers. Even though the talk page of a basic article like Function (mathematics) is pretty depressing given the amount of human resources that have been wasted in zero-sum games, some actual improvements did come out of the discussions there. Thanks. Pcap ping 09:31, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the invite ... I see from your page that you are "semi-retired" ... so am I. I plink on occasional articles but hardly have a "watchlist" -- too time-consuming/exhausting. linas (talk) 21:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

September 2009

This is the only warning you will receive for your disruptive comments.
The next time you make a personal attack as you did at User_talk:Pohta_ce-am_pohtit#Watchlist, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. We do not call editors idiots; "vandalizes" and "subtle vandalism" are not the term, see Misplaced Pages:Vandalism so you can learn what vandalism actually is. Also, see assume good faith regarding "brazen" as the only intent was to improve an article that still has referencing problems. Inline citation preferences aside, the existing citations are not uniform in format and even Misplaced Pages requires that, as does every academic journal I know, and that was the root of the problem. Aboutmovies (talk) 18:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Fuck off, asshole. You did not act in good faith, you vandalized the article. People like you need to be outed and kicked out. linas (talk) 14:12, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Linas, you've been here a long time, you've been blocked once before for such behavior. I know that you know the guidelines of Misplaced Pages, including WP:NPA. Please heed them. tedder (talk) 18:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I've never been blocked before. Let me be clear: Mr. User:Aboutmovies vandalized an article. Then he attacked the editor who fixed the article. Then, for good measure, he attacked me. Then I called him an asshole. Then he got you to block me. And your were sucked right into his game. So to summarize: Fuck off tedder. You are part of the problem, and not part of the solution. The sooner we get rid of fucking asshole admins like you, the better[REDACTED] will be. linas (talk) 00:19, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Wow. Surely you're going to undo these last couple comments, right? You can't expect to talk like that and remain unblocked. Wknight94 00:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, you (Linas) were blocked on 6 December 2007, for "Persistent incivility and personal attacks over a number of talk pages, was warned." Good times. I'm hoping you can settle down, comment on the content, and help us build an encyclopedia. tedder (talk) 05:32, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

No, you are wrong. I was never blocked on that date. The use of blocks by powerful admins against defenseless users is a highly uncivil, anti-social action. There is no way to interpret your action against me as anything other than a personal attack, by you, against me. You are wrong in every way, and it is well within my social rights to respond to you by using swear-words: you have already committed the far greater anti-social evil here, and you deserve all the opprobrium you can get. linas (talk) 15:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I am planning on asking the above admins to issue an apology, to voluntarily relinquish their powers as admins, and to take a leave of absence from Misplaced Pages. I have started a formal complaint at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_mediation/User:Linas, but that appears to be the incorrect forum. linas (talk) 01:41, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Formal complaint filed at: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Attack by multiple admins upon User:Linas. linas (talk) 03:05, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I can see no abuse of power here by any of the involved admins to be honest, but as I mentioned on my talk page, you are free to initiate my recall procedure if you feel I should have my sysop rights revoked. –Juliancolton |  03:08, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

You have violently abused your power, and you should be utterly ashamed of yourself. You should be ashamed to even post such nonsense as that above. You are ruder than any swear words could ever be, and yet seem to be utterly unaware of it. Please leave. I have asked you to leave me alone before, in very simple and plain english, but you don't understand. I now ask you once again: please leave: please leave me alone, please leave my talk page, please leave Misplaced Pages. You are a pox, you do not belong here. You should go away. linas (talk) 03:26, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I apologize if you feel that way. Insulting you was certainly not my intention. You are free to remove this post once you've read it, but I respectfully ask that you withdraw your attacks against me so we can work together to resolve this dispute. You seem like a constructive contributor, and I don't want to see you blocked further. –Juliancolton |  03:40, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

WQA

Hello, Linas. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.- sinneed (talk) 16:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Having looked over the sequence of events, I find that the language used by Linas is completely and utterly unacceptable. A block for personal attacks would already be justified -- any continuation of this pattern will certainly lead to a block. Looie496 (talk) 16:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC) I was not aware that Linas had been blocked when I wrote this, and I apologize for giving the appearance of "piling on". Looie496 (talk) 18:48, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

This is all my fault- sorry, the block message should have automagically gone in before this thread. tedder (talk) 18:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Fuck all of you. We need a fucking lynch mob and get all of you fucking admins driven off of WP. We need to put edit blocks on every fucking single article on WP and shut you fucking assholes out. I'm tired of cleaning up all the fucking vandalism out of the fucking articles, and I'm tired of getting attacked by fucking assholes, like you, who don't have a fucking clue of what the article is about to begin with, and, because you're a fucking admin, should know fucking better then to fuck with none of your business. Fuck off all of you. 00:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I've blocked your account for 3 days for unacceptable personal attacks. You may contest this block by following the instructions listed at WP:APPEAL. –Juliancolton |  00:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I am unable to locate this discussion. I am pursuing actions against the admins involved in this drive-by shooting. linas (talk) 01:30, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I found it, it is located at: Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive564#Nuclear_meltdown_at_User_talk:Linas linas (talk) 01:37, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I am a "completely uninvolved" (though quite possibly still an arsehole) Administrator...

You may be aware that there is a discussion relating to you at ANI. Are there any points you would like conveyed there? I would point out that any comments along the lines that have recently been deleted are not going to be forwarded (and will likely be removed from here - though not by me - again), but if there are genuine gripes behind the avalanche of swearing I would be happy to either note them there or even review them to see if there is some underlying grievance I can address. I will watch this page, but as I am a Brit (as you can see by the way I spell arsehole - which does not seem to get the same reaction as "mule-pit") I may be a while in responding. Anyhow, the offer is there. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Pretty much a dumbass to boot, too - I didn't check whether you are able to edit this page. You can email me if there is anything that you wish me to do for you, in this matter. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You have not committed any offense to me, I have no anger towards you. I choose to rain insults only upon those who have acted in unprovoked malice against me. Thank you for inviting me to the discussion. I appear to now be unblocked, and can participate in it. Where, exactly, is it? linas (talk) 01:25, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Never mind, I found it, I think what' you are referring to is here (right?): Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive564#Nuclear_meltdown_at_User_talk:Linas Pretty darn cowardly of them to organize a "nuclear attack" on me from the shelter of their obscure little corner of WP. linas (talk) 03:13, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

That indeed was it. I made the original offer in ignorance of you being unable to edit this page - so by the time you were able to respond the matter refered to had been archived. Nevertheless, if you wish to use the services of an admin who has no previous interaction with you (perhaps as a sounding board or similar) then feel free to contact me. Cheers, LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:32, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:ANI

ANI thread regarding you at WP:ANI#User:Linas again. Wknight94 03:45, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

For those of you who are English language impaired: "Fuck off" means "leave me alone". Don't believe me? Google it. What part of "fuck off" don't you understand? What is wrong with you people? Jeez. Go jump off a cliff. Go fly a kite. Get lost. Leave. Stop harassing me. linas (talk) 04:05, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

If I may kindly interject; please, linas, calm down. There's no reason for the attacks. I understand that you feel wronged, but you can't beat these guys with harsh language or make them reconsider. All you're doing is inviting more abuse. The more you justify it, the more you ask to get gang-banged. Let me suggest, perhaps, a short break from Misplaced Pages to take a breather. If you don't feel that necessary, at least stop the profanity. Please? Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 04:44, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Please understand that we have a code of conduct on Misplaced Pages, which applies to you as well. If you have a grievance against others, swearing at them and telling them to "jump off a cliff" is not acceptable under any circumstances.  Sandstein  05:07, 30 September 2009 (UTC) (Diff fixed,  Sandstein  05:12, 30 September 2009 (UTC))

I can't say with honesty that I agree with this block, but I'd like to let you know that my offer still stands, Linas. I'll keep a watch on your talk page for any replies, or you can email me if that's your preferred method. Please keep my offer in mind as an option! Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 05:10, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Linas (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Thanks for the offer, I didn't know I could edit anything when there's a block on. I honestly do not understand how these awful people got into these positions of power. From my point of view, I have been "gang raped" by four admins now. I fail to see why the "code of conduct" applies to me, but not to them. Worse, the infractions they are committing are far more severe than mere swearing/blue language I'm accused of. From my point of view, it would appear that a there's a lynch mob running around in Misplaced Pages, attacking inactive editors (you will see that my activity has been very low for the last year), and that the lynch mob acts with complete impunity: when I complained to the arb, they basically dismissed the case. They are either blind to this rather serious problem, or are unwilling or unable to deal with it. This is all going to be to the detriment of WP -- these wild and lawless gangs of admins are going to drive away editors who are knowledgeable and capable, while encouraging crazy editors to be more bold in their bizarre defacement attempts. I don't see any good coming out of this. ::In my case, I stopped being active a few years ago, due to this pernicious lawlessness and misbehaviour, and the lack of any workable mechanism to maintain article quality for any articles that are far off the beaten track. I felt that my time was being wasted; honestly, I have many projects I'm interested in, and WP became a loosing proposition; I simply found more important things to work on. I know I am not alone, and I am now saddened that the arb committee seems to also have lost its power and vision and simply cannot/will not control the mob any longer. Oh well. ::Anyway, you don't have to remove any blocks, its not like I'm going to increase my activity as a result. Maybe in a few years, after these admins have been driven out, and some sort of order has been restored. I dunno. Good luck till then. linas (talk) 18:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Decline reason:

No reason given to unblock outside of manifesto. Syrthiss (talk) 19:17, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/User:Linas. For the Mediation Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 23:30, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Take-down request

Please take down the blatant personal attacks on your user page. Thank you. Wknight94 16:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Please stop your personal attacks on me. linas (talk) 16:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

ANI notification

Hello, Linas. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. tedder (talk) 17:06, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Really, Linas, when you've been blocked for personal attacks before, running around to multiple noticeboards complaining about incompetent/corrupt admins is unwise at best. Might I suggest you retract the comments before someone comes along with a 1-month block? I won't ask you to do anything more at this point than just take them down quietly. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

User:Linas and User:Linas/Leadership need to be taken down/refactored as well. Wknight94 17:15, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I've refactored the userpage to remove the names. Linas, whilst you're perfectly allowed to criticise Misplaced Pages, its admins or anything else on your userpage, when you start naming individual editors, you cross a line. Equally, I've deleted the sub-page - calling people "fuck brained idiots" also crossed the line. Thanks, Black Kite 17:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the section of your user page which violates WP:NPA against five fellow admins. You are strongly cautioned not to restore it or your user page will be reverted and protected so that you can't edit it at all. Mjroots (talk) 17:24, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I've restored it for now. Give me a bit of time on this, please. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Figures. I think you have it backwards. Can't you see that what you are doing is far worse, far more offensive, than anything that I've done? Don't you think that deleting random user page content is more offensive, and crosses a far more serious line, than using swear-words, or naming admins? (I certainly do: I believe you have committed the greater sin/moral wrong.) How am I supposed to tell people that "these are the admins who are abusing their power" when I am not allowed to use their names? How can I ask for a change in leadership without indicating which leaders are the ones that need to be thrown out? How can I even have a conversation when I get blocked from editing?

I don't understand why you admins feel that you are immune to criticism, can do anything you feel like, can cross any line you wish. Why am I held to a higher standard than you are? Shouldn't it be the other way around? The gag is a far greater crime then a few swear words. The gag is a far greater crime than a public naming and outing of the WP admins who are abusing their power. If Wkinight94 was innocent, and a good guy, he wouldn't be sitting here, attacking me ... again. linas (talk) 17:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not "random" user page content, it's content that consensus has agreed should not be there. I want to help you here, Linas, but if you're going against established standards, that will be hard to do. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:41, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Why should I back down? You are the ones provoking this argument. Stop provoking me, and I will stop being provoked. You can't kick someone in the head, and then say "quiet down now, and stop fighting", and expect them to respond in some cool-headed, coherent manner. You can't threaten someone with a block, and then say "hey don't feel threatened: cool down, act rational". But, hey, it seems that just about none of you guys seem to get this. So, if you feel like being a bully today, then block me for a month or whatever. Either that, or just stop bullying me. linas (talk) 17:44, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I tried. Sorry you didn't want the help. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:45, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm quite fine with personal attacks on your userpage. The forumshopping? Not so much. Please continue the conversation at ANI. tedder (talk) 17:40, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

@Linas: You can raise whatever issue you want in the proper venue and manner. You did that at WP:RFAR and were soundly rejected. Your own advice in such situations is to quietly slink off with your tail between your legs. Wknight94 17:44, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Why should I? You started this attack, why should I be the one to submit to it? Why can't you just leave me alone? Why do you need to bully me? linas (talk) 17:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

These people are actually trying to stop you getting blocked, as was I. But seriously, if you launch multiple attacks on people in your userspace, you shouldn't be surprised when they object to it. They will "leave you alone" when you stop doing it. Black Kite 17:53, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, its really hard to tell who is doing what. The last block expired recently; I cleaned up my user page, and *whammo* within an hour, the beehive has been stirred again, and I'm getting stung from all directions. linas (talk) 18:00, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I think if you remove the attacks on named editors from your userpage, this will all die down straight away. It's got to be the best course of action, no? (Edit: I see Sarek has removed it anyway. If you say that you won't re-instate it, I think we can close this right now). Black Kite 18:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Disagree with proposal

I have read your complaint on the maths project page and had a look at what caused the argument. I completely disagree with you. You should count to ten and think to yourself before any new outburst "Misplaced Pages is the encyclopaedia any idiot can edit". There's no point in insulting good faith editors, you should explain the problem in a clear and coherent manner. There is no point insulting trolls and vandals, they feed on other's unhappiness. You're investing too much feeling into it all. Dmcq (talk) 17:38, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't a good faith edit. You are right about the trolls, but apparently, a whole bunch of them are now admins, and that's a problem. Word of caution: someday, they will attack you. linas (talk) 17:49, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

If not good faith then see my remark about not feeding trolls. Dmcq (talk) 17:55, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I also looked at the situation. I got the impression that it probably started as follows: Aboutmovies searched for the string "beyond words" on Misplaced Pages to look for references to this new age publisher. Somehow he managed to miss the fact that he was messing with maths articles, and made his 3 silly edits. (Some things to consider: monoid is originally a philosophy term and may well be abused in new age; a large part of the general population will be unable to identify "Springer Verlag" as a publisher's name.) When he was reverted, he understood why and accepted this, but was in a bad mood. When you called him a vandal this was technically incorrect because he had done it because of inattentiveness, not bad faith. But of course it wasn't a good idea of his to template you for that. It was also a bad idea to discuss details of citation formatting etc. in such a situation, and there was a series of misunderstandings. I must say that I strongly disagree with the extreme escalation that happened in this case. This includes the silly blocks, but also your running to Arbcom and mediation and the words you used when doing so. It looks as if once you were blocked you lost the ability to see the situation with someone else's eyes. Hans Adler 18:55, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Vandal and "idiot" - let's not forget that: . Wknight94 19:02, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

"a large part of the general population will be unable to identify 'Springer Verlag' as a publisher's name." This hit me like a sledgehammer between the eyes. You are, of course correct. You are equally correct that linas seems not to see things through the eyes of others, but I think this started because many didn't see it through the eyes of linas. Can there be people who don't recognize "Springer Verlag"? Of course, many. How many of them ought to be editing a mathematical article carelessly? Probably none. Can anyone with a clue take a look at Trace monoid and think it is a New Age topic? I doubt it. While "vandalism" might be too strong a term, I sympathize with Linas. Am I the only one recalling the move Rambo as I plow through this incident?--SPhilbrickT 18:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

A better place for you?

Hi Linas. Your contribution to WP is really great; and it is really a pity that it will be somewhat spoiled, inevitably. However, what about Citizendium? Isn't it closer to your dream? (I write a little both here and there). Boris Tsirelson (talk) 19:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Citizendium isn't so bad. It's an excellent place for creating new content without too many distractions from other editors. Unfortunately this includes the pleasant ones, too. Hans Adler 21:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh yes, CZ has serious drawbacks. This is why I write "a better place for you?" rather than "a better place for us all!". And this is why I am trying both wikis. Unfortunately, the approval mechanism of CZ is nearly idle. Worse, it should remain nearly idle (I would be glad to be wrong in this prediction). But anyway, if someone wants his writings to either stay constant or monotonically increase in quality, he/she should think about CZ. Boris Tsirelson (talk) 21:58, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

(u/i)Don't go to Citizendium. Despite this recent setback, you have been such a driving force for Misplaced Pages's mathematics and physics articles that it would be a dreadful shame if you left. The high profile of Misplaced Pages does bring in a lot of idiots and drama ensues, but it also brings in more experts than even Citizendium, and a lot of high-quality articles, even very specialized ones, are the result. To respond directly to Boris, "constant" would seem to characterize the quality of Citizendium articles a little more than "increasing": they are by and large written by one (or in rare cases two) individuals. In the ideal scenario, Misplaced Pages is obviously a much more powerful paradigm: rather than being based on "I know this...", it seems to be based more on "I know this and you know that..." with the view that an article written by a mathematician, an engineer, a physicist, and a philosopher, might ultimately be superior to one written by any individual who is a self-proclaimed (accredited) "expert" on something related to what he or she is writing about. Freethinking characterizes Misplaced Pages, and to me you are the archetypal free thinker. Le Docteur (talk) 22:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

In spite of the above approbation, I do disagree with some of the finer points of your edits overall: Informed disagreement is, of course, part of the Misplaced Pages cycle. Nevertheless, Misplaced Pages is obviously a better place for you (in my mind). There is a difference between informed disagreement and "cranks". Unfortunately the lovely bureaucracy that is Misplaced Pages (not!) is generally unable to distinguish between these two things, and it is quite frustrating. It is now, apparently, required that most editors here must consume "alphabet soup" lest they succumb to the barbarian hoards. A better course of action, I would like to think, is to report directly to a WikiProject. (This is similar to the adage in academia that the only way to get something done is with departmental backing... or somesuch.) I personally think that the way forward is to strengthen ties among project members. Le Docteur (talk) 23:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm dreadful at writing so Citizendum would be bad for me but for someone who's work will just degrade on[REDACTED] it could be better. This company I was in once had everyone in the company doing some tests on their own and then in groups. My manager said afterwards how this showed that together people did better and called on me to say how I had done. Actually I'd done second best in the whole company on my own and far better than any of the groups so perhaps I wasn't the best choice, I had to think quick and dissemble to get out of the position. I had been quite unable to get my group to agree with what I said and they'd done some really silly things. I though it was a pity and checked it out with the person who did best, what he had was he was much more diplomatic than me in dealing with people, and his group had also done better than mine. So overall I'd say if you're good enough the wisdom of the crowds isn't actually true. I like to try working with people and helping them do things better but you have a definite forte for getting a good article written. Dmcq (talk) 23:40, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

About "the lovely bureaucracy": leaders that are (say) mathematicians is an Utopian idea, be it in Misplaced Pages or in real-world politics. Boris Tsirelson (talk) 06:45, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Category:Reliability interconnections

Hi, Linas. I proposed to merge Category:Reliability interconnections to Category:Electric power transmission systems. You could comment it here. Beagel (talk) 09:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

MfD

Hi Linas, Have you seen Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion#User:Linas/Lattice models and another below that I have not looked at yet? It looks like the nom did not advise you. Cheers, --Bduke (Discussion) 02:17, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. linas (talk) 23:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Boy's surface/Proofs‎

The article Boy's surface/Proofs‎ has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

Uhh, Who proposed this? Who posted the above to my talk page? Where is the discussion of the deletion? Jeez. linas (talk) 22:06, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

re Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Linas/Wacky thoughts

Please don't be paranoid. We have never met in[REDACTED] so there is no personal hidden agenda. I run into this page while doing word search. I do dislike the fact taht some people are turning[REDACTED] into a tool for socializing and self-promotion, which was not hidden in the nomination. However after reading the bottom of your user page I understand why you were so jumpy. Don't worry, I am quite far from evil "wikipedia leadership" and any other MMORPG. Twri (talk) 03:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Or not. See Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding User:Altenmann. Pcap ping 15:36, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Dang. Thanks for the notice! linas (talk) 20:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Temporary password emails

Hi Linas. I have left a message for you at Misplaced Pages talk:Security#Hack attempts/paranoia.

--David Göthberg (talk) 18:21, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Networking

Hi there,

read a couple of your stuff on Wike(m/p)edia policy and partially agree. I am mainly active on the German version, so not so well known over here. I suppose, you don't read German, but if you do, I invite you to read and contribute to de:Benutzer:Fossa/Nebel. If you don't, let me know, if you are interested in an English version, if I ever get to one. I suppose you also know User:Daniel Quinlan/gaming?

Cheers, Fossa_?! 07:19, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I had not seen that essay on "gaming wikipedia" before. I have no desire to play these kinds of political games. I want to be able to tell the truth, and to collaborate in a constructive manner. I am very disappointed to note that this kind of gaming seems to be implicitly/explicitly approved by Misplaced Pages management/admins -- many editors here seem to actually want to play this game -- its very nearly enshrined in "policy" on various policy pages. Culturally, its the wrong path to go down -- it consigns honesty and integrity to a low level of importance -- and allows asshole admins to fuck whomever they please. Perhaps its unavoidable for certain classes of articles -- but it is pointless and stupid with regards to science articles. linas (talk) 17:55, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I see that you are a mathematician, and the ideology of the natural sciences is "to tell the truth", as you put it. There are philosophical reservations to the "truth", which I am sure you are aware of. But suppose you want to tell the best model fit for reality (call it "the truth", if you wish), then you will not get around "playing games", that holds true for both[REDACTED] and science. Have you heard about Game Theory and/or Science Studies? To get to the "truth", social networking and "playing games" is absolutely indespensible. The Misplaced Pages establishment does exactly that, but does not admit that it does play games. Fossa_?! 12:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, well, sure, but some games have better/more appealing rules than others. The rules of the current[REDACTED] game puts too much power in the wrong kind of people. Alas, I do not read German; maybe someday ... linas (talk) 13:12, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree with the poor rules and the wrong people at the important decision-making positions. The question is only, what to change first: The network or the rules? I suggest, it's easier to first change the network first, but for that the right people need to be recruited into the network. Only with the "right" type of people at important network places you will be able to change the rules. In any case, I will in the future write everything bilingual, so count on you being bothered again. Fossa_?! 16:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Electric power distribution systems

Category:Electric power distribution systems, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.

HELP!

Anti-laser needs your help! Chrisrus (talk) 02:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Question about old edit to Event horizon

Hi Linas, in this edit from 2006 (differences from previous version here) you added the sentence "If the observer is lowered very slowly, then, in the observer's frame of reference, the horizon appears to be very far away, and ever more rope needs to be paid out to reach the horizon" and also the sentence "if the rod is lowered extremely slowly, then it is always too short to touch the event horizon, as the coordinate frames near the tip of the rod are extremely compressed." These sentences have survived basically unchanged to the present...but what was your basis for them? You seem to be saying that in some sense the distance to the horizon is infinite, but p. 824 of the Misner/Thorne/Wheeler textbook Gravitation says:

The divergence of ${\displaystyle g_{rr}}$ at r=2M does not mean that r=2M is infinitely far from all other regions of spacetime. On the contrary, the proper distance from r=2M to a point with arbitrary r is ${\displaystyle \int _{2M}^{r}|g_{rr}|^{1/2}\,dr=^{1/2}+2M\,ln|(r/2M-1)^{1/2}+(r/2M)^{1/2}|}$ when r > 2M ... which is finite for all 0 < r < ∞

The "proper distance" found by integrating the metric line element along a spacelike path with constant t coordinate and varying r coordinate (analogous to the "proper time" which is found by integrating the metric line element along a timelike path) can be understood like this: imagine we have a chain of observers who are each hovering at some constant r-coordinate, each with only an infinitesimal distance to their nearest neighbors and with the chain stretching from infinitesimally close to the event horizon out to some distance R. Suppose that at a single t-coordinate each observer measures the distance between themselves and their nearest neighbor closer to the horizon, using a short free-falling ruler which is momentarily at rest relative to themselves. Then if we add up all these little measurements, the total will be the "proper distance" from R to the horizon, and as mentioned above it will be finite. It seems to me this notion of "proper distance" is also the best answer to the question of how long a rope lowered very slowly from R would need to be to reach the horizon, is there some other way of answering the question I'm not thinking of, or were you thinking that the distance as measured by a series of very short rulers (each instantaneously at rest in Schwarzschild coordinates) would actually be infinite? Hypnosifl (talk) 20:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for the delayed response, I don't get on WP very often any more. The sentences were trying to describe the differences between an adiabatic maneuver to get all of those observers in place, and free-fall. So, yes, if one just "uses a short free-falling ruler" to measure the distance between observers, one does indeed get the finite proper distance ${\displaystyle \int _{2M}^{r}|g_{rr}|^{1/2}\,dr}$, as you point out. Rather, this was an attempt to address the question: "what is the length of an accelerated ruler?" Now, rather than measuring the distance between observers using free-falling rulers, one attempts to perform the measurement with rulers that are stationary with respect to the horizon, i.e. are being more and more strongly accelerated as they approach the horizon (the acceleration being provided by the tug of the rope). I believe that the right answer is that such rulers get strongly contracted, so much so, that this distance becomes infinite. Put another way, this is an attempt to explain why, in one frame of reference (the free-falling, proper-time frame) there is no singularity at the event horizon, while in others, there is. In particular, the amount of acceleration one needs to hover at the event horizon is "infinite" -- more properly speaking, "unbounded" as one approaches the horizon. This is the infinity that the dangling rope is trying to illustrate: the tip of the rope must undergo ever stronger acceleration as it approaches the event horizon, and the accelerated rulers become ever shorter. Unfortunately, I cannot give a reference for this.

BTW, there is a similar but different phenomenon for freely-falling observers. Suppose one observer, far away from the horizon, drops a blinking light into the black hole. This external observer would never see the blinker actually cross the event horizon! It would take "forever" to even approach the horizon. Basically, the external observer would perceive the blinking to get slower and slower, and the light to be more and more red-shifted, as the falling blinker approached the horizon. The red-shift, and the blinking become infinite as the horizon is approached; the external observer cannot ever see it being crossed. (Of course, the falling blinker hits the singularity in finite proper time). The dangling-rope thing is an attempt to illustrate the space analog of this time-based divergence. linas (talk) 19:44, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I copied all this to Talk:Event horizon which is a better place for this discussion. I also re-edited my reply there for more clarity. linas (talk) 20:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Question

I do not understand you idea : . As such, Legendre polynomials can be generalized (In what way?) to express the symmetries of semi-simple Lie groups (not SO(3)?) and Riemannian symmetric spaces. (not euclidic ?) Gvozdet (talk) 12:02, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Sorry for the late response, I do not get on Misplaced Pages very often. This is not "my idea"; rather, there are papers, books and conferences on the topic. Simply-put, whenever one has a space with a continuous symmetry, one also has a symmetry group describing the symmetry; these are essentially the Lie groups. One may define a Laplacian on such spaces, and then study the eigenfunctions of the laplacian on these spaces. These solutions can be considered to result in "generalizations" of the associated Legendre polynomials. linas (talk) 21:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

BTW, moving further discussion to the talk page Talk:associated Legendre polynomials. linas (talk) 21:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Shapley-Folkman lemma

Dear Linas,

your edit summary noted having trouble imagining why the Shapley-Folkman lemma was previously rated "high". I suggested "high" per the criterion "has an important impact in other fields, outside of mathematics" (paraphrasing from my fallible memory), because of the conceptual importance of the result in economics and operations research. I have not reverted and do not object to your change, but just wanted to explain why I suggested "high". In fact, after viewing the other "B-Plus class articles, I agree that the Shapley-Folkman lemma's importance fits better with the other "Mid" priority articles.

In contrast, I rated its importance as only "mid" in economics, per the economics criterion that this subject is encountered by graduate students but not by undergraduates or by the general public, in contrast.

Best regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 23:48, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I ranked it "mid" only because ranking it "low" would be rude .. but seriously, this is of low importance to mathematics. To be "high", it would have to be covered in hundreds of textbooks, fill the pages of the various pop-sci books and magazines on a regular basis, and maybe the topic of a few best-selling books by Nobel-prize-winning authors. The topic fails miserably in this criteria; I don't even see how it deserves "mid" importance. linas (talk) 00:10, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

The criteria you mention have no basis in WP policy, particularly in its mathematics project. However, the SF lemma appears in the 2 best (and only standard) microeconomic textbooks, which are listed (Mas-Collel, Green, and Whinston (?) and Varian.

Exercise. The Shapley-Folkman lemma generalizes Carathéodory's theorem (convex hull), which is a prototype for MSC 52A35, geometric transversality theorem.

For a humility-check, the SF lemma has inspired work by some mathematicians like, e.g. J.W.S. Cassels, Roger Howe, Lloyd Shapley, Jon Folkman, Ivar Ekeland, besides the probabilists and econonists mentioned, some of whom have already won the Nobel prize in economics---there being no Nobel prize in mathematics. Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 01:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know, the topic of every WP math article, including those ranked of 'low' importance, appears in multiple textbooks; I think its fairly safe to say that pretty much every such topic has inspired work by distinguished individuals, however humble or acclaimed they may be, as well as having served as the foundation for homework exercises. linas (talk) 01:56, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Well said. Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 23:03, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Periodic Zeta function

Hi! Here you added expression for periodic zeta function using polylogarithm. Are you sure it is not a type, since in the reference provided it's polygamma.--MathFacts (talk) 12:50, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I just removed the mathworld ref just now; the polygamma is clearly wrong.linas (talk) 21:59, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

bug in Bernoulli polynomial diagram

Hi -- the diagram of the Bernoulli polynomials that you contributed at Image:Bernoulli_polynomials.svg is wrong because the constant terms of the even-numbered polynomials are truncated by gnuplot's integer arithmetic. The values of the even-numbered polynomials at x = 0 and x = 1 should be the Bernoulli numbers; in your diagram they are 0. You need to calculate the constant terms with floating-point arithmetic (e.g. by adding a decimal point). Can you upload a corrected version? I don't have gnuplot running here. Joriki (talk) 00:28, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Huh. Indeed, you are right. Although .. I changed to flt pt, and there was no discernible change to the image, because the the values at 0,1 are so tiny compared to the y-axis scale. I changed the x-axis scale to graph only between zero, one; I should have done this off-the-bat, as it helps enmphasize the convergence to sine, cosine. Due to image caching, the change might not be immediately visible, though. Click on the image to get the new version. linas (talk) 18:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for making the change. Sorry I didn't notice this earlier, but now that the plots are right I noticed that the colours are extremely difficult to tell apart -- the two shades of green and the two shades of blue look almost the same on my screen. I think you can change the colors by adding 'lt rgb "#RRGGBB"' after the linewidths. Joriki (talk) 05:58, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the colors bugged me too, but I didn't know how to change them. I found a pink & ochre that seemed to contrast ... linas (talk) 14:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Much clearer now. But you didn't change the gnuplot code :-) Joriki (talk) 15:59, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Zero mass particle

Good day! I can not to understand some thoughts. What is relativistic Lagrangian?

When relativistic effects are significant, the action of a point particle of mass m travelling a world line C parametrized by the proper time ${\displaystyle \tau }$ is

${\displaystyle S=-mc^{2}\int _{C}\,d\tau }$.

If instead, the particle is parametrized by the coordinate time t of the particle and the coordinate time ranges from t₁ to t₂, then the action becomes

${\displaystyle \int _{t1}^{t2}L\,dt}$

where the Lagrangian is

${\displaystyle L=-mc^{2}{\sqrt {1-{\frac {v^{2}}{c^{2}}}}}}$

If the m=0 (for instance photon) its proper time τ is also 0. So S==0. For all L.

Am I right?

So Lagrangian for photon must be indefinite.

But we know that Lagrangian for the electromagnetic field is: The resulting Lagrangian for the electromagnetic field is:

${\displaystyle {\mathcal {L}}=-\rho \phi +{\vec {j}}\cdot {\vec {A}}+{\epsilon _{0} \over 2}{E}^{2}-{1 \over {2\mu _{0}}}{B}^{2}.}$

First and second term is interaction between photon and other particles. But other terms we can consider as Lagrangian for photon.

I see the contradiction. From the one hand we can not define it, but from the other we can!!! What is real Lagrangian for photon!!

Thank you very much for explaining me!! Gvozdet (talk) 12:00, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Yes. The first lagrangian that you give is for a "classical relativistic point particle". It looks correct to me. In classical mechanics, point particles are always massive, there is no such thing as a "massless" classical point particle. Now, the photon is a quantum mechanical particle, and as a particle, the only correct way is with a quantum field Lagrangian (which you did not write down). There is no such thing as a "classical photon". The second Lagrangian that you wrote down is for the classical electromagnetic field, and not the quantum field. In what you wrote down, E and B are classical fields, not quantum fields, and j and rho are classical currents and charges, and are not particles. So, this is wrong:

First and second term is interaction between photon and other particles.

No. It is the interaction between the classical electromagnetic field, and classical charges/currents. There are no particles here.

But other terms we can consider as Lagrangian for photon.

This is wrong; there is no photon here. In order to talk about photons, one must quantize the fields; the full second-quantized field theory is a lot more complicated; see canonical quantization for basic details. The partition function that describes the second-quantized electromagnetic field (i.e. "photons") interacting with a classical current j is

${\displaystyle Z(j^{\mu })=\int DA\exp({\frac {i}{\hbar }}\int d^{4}xj^{\mu }A_{\mu }+{\frac {1}{4\pi }}F_{\mu \nu }F^{\mu \nu })}$

Note that the integral DA is performed over all possible field configurations of the four-potential A. This is a path integral and is very very "large". Only in this way is it possible to get "photons". The ${\displaystyle F_{\mu \nu }}$ is the electromagnetic stress tensor. linas (talk) 19:54, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Now I totally understand all my errors! Gvozdet (talk) 09:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

Hello, this is just to let you know that I have granted you the "autopatrolled" permission. This won't affect your editing, it just automatically marks any page you create as patrolled, benefiting new page patrollers. Please remember:

• This permission does not give you any special status or authority
• Submission of inappropriate material may lead to its removal
• You may wish to display the {{Autopatrolled}} top icon and/or the {{User wikipedia/autopatrolled}} userbox on your user page
• If, for any reason, you decide you do not want the permission, let me know and I can remove it

If you have any questions about the permission, don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, happy editing! Acalamari 14:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Casimir invariant

You wrote, "Superficially, topological quantum numbers form an exception to this pattern; although deeper theories hint that these are two facets of the same phenomenon." What deeper theories? Mporter (talk) 13:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I probably had in mind results from string theory/knot theory/M-theory/calabi-yau/quantum lie groups but can't easily/quickly remember whatever it was that prompted this edit. Sorry :-) linas (talk) 21:51, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I realize that the above is a horrible answer; for which I doubly apologize. It has been a very long tie since I've thought about such things. Probably the easiest/most direct readings where these ideas would occur would be in the calabi-yau texts, in quantum lie groups, and in non-commutative algebra. Strictly speaking, one is no longer dealing strictly with Lie groups any more, but with various generalizations or similarly-behaved structures. Again, sorry. If something pops into my head later on, I'll try to put it down. linas (talk) 22:02, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Young Symmetrizer

"image of a_\lambda" The image of a_\lambda is one element, one endomorphism of a tensor power of V. That is, the image of a_\lambda under CS_n -> End (VxV...xV) is an endomorphism of VxVx...xV.

Do you mean the image of that? I guess you probably do. The wording is just slightly confusing, should explain it in 2 steps. I'll bet that you were thinking 'the image of the image of a_\lambda' but it is unfortunately a bit elided, which is going to confuse a lot of people....at least it confused me until I thought a lot about what you meant by that cryptic phrase. Createangelos (talk) 21:36, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Not sure, I'd have to study it again. linas (talk) 01:15, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Satisfiability

In the article on satisfaction, you added text about a theory being convergent, but you linked it to Convergence (logic), which describes a proeprty of rewriting operations, not a property of theories. I left some other comments on the talk page of that article. Could you make sure that the language you add to the article is formally correct? — Carl (CBM · talk) 21:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

OK. linas (talk) 22:47, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

July 2011

Please do not add or change content without verifying it by citing reliable sources, as you did to John Henry (folklore). Please review the guidelines at Misplaced Pages:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. — Bdb484 (talk) 21:10, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

I would appreciate it if you discussed your concerns on the talk page of that article. Blanking it whole-sale, as you did, and in particular, blanking the primary section, which provides the main narrative, is wrong. This folklore is a common topic in children's textbooks, and is central to American mythology. To just blank it out, leaving nothing but an uninformative shell, is bad.

An article about John Henry should actually explain the myth, the folklore, itself. As it is, your edits left only a section that offers some poorly-grounded, vague historical speculation. The speculative grounding in history is utterly unimportant to the myth, its just some boring pedantic footnote! It shouldn't be the tail that wags the dog! linas (talk) 01:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011

Please do not add unsourced content, as you did to John Henry (folklore). This contravenes Misplaced Pages's policy on verifiability. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages.

The material in question has been tagged for some time, and editors have been bringing their concerns about it to the talk page for some time, but you have not seen fit to chime in on those discussions except to say that uncited material should be retained and that the cited material needs to be deleted because it's drivel.

The verifiability policy is really a very easy one to comply with, and I hope you'll take the opportunity to do so. — Bdb484 (talk) 20:53, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Here's a brilliant opportunity for me to be uncivil to another asshole editor who makes[REDACTED] such a bad place to work in. Let me put it plainly: you, Mr. bdb484, represent the very epitomy of what is wrong with wikipedia. You are exactly the kind of person who makes this a shitty place to do editing. So let me get to the uncivility fortwith: fuck off, asshole. Leave me alone! I do so wish that the[REDACTED] admins would ban you, but, alas, they will ban me. Oh well. linas (talk) 03:31, 15 August 2011 (UTC)