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Conservatism B‑class Top‑importance

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Opposing Political Party

what is their major opposing political party?

There is no real opposition in Russia. There are some little opposition paries: Kommunisicheskaya Partiay Rossiyskoy Federacii (KPRF, Kommunist Partie of the Russian Federation), Soyuz Pravyh Sil (SPS, Union of the Rights Powers), Yabloko, NBP (National-Bolshevik Partie) etc.

SPS is a joke, no longer considered a serious party by anyone.

It certainly seems strange to call LDPR one of UR's "main political rivals." It's a big party, but I think in order to be a "main political rival" both your size and your opposition should be notable. The latter is not true of LDPR.205.212.74.42 02:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

=My opinion

LDPR is not an opposition. Thay are controled by UR, Yabloko was financed by Khodorkovsky, but now he is not able to give tham money(he is in prizon as he wanted to become a prezident), so now have no political power. 2 days ago SPS was destroyed by it's leader - Nikita belih.

UR is funny party)))) Their leader - Vladimir Putin, officially is not the member of that Party.

See Fair Russia, Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Civilian Power. ellol 15:48, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

LDPR was formed by KGB and later on FSB. It is full of their agents. It is anything but "Opposition". "In America, the Opposition harrasses the Government; In Russia, there is no Opposition!" Hehe--SergeiXXX (talk) 01:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Nationalism

• There's no evidence to claim the party is nationalist. Nationalism does stay for nation-state and single ethnicity. Which is very far from what is common for UR rhetorics and policies, with their many non-russian members (Mintimer Shaymiyev, Murtaza Rakhimov, Taymuraz Mamsurov, etc). Gryzlov uses the word "nationalism" as synonimous to chauvenism, almost like an insult.Garret Beaumain 15:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that some users constantly add nationalism to ideology without any sources. So my suggestion is that until someone finds a reliable research that UR has some nationalist elements in it, the only ideology should be centrism. DVoit (talk) 00:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Party organization

Any word on how they are organized? They just had their 8th Party Congress () ... They have their own party newspaper ... central committee ... central committee presidium ... the structure is very similar to the CPSU... 202.89.155.120 (talk) 10:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Ideology

I have removed Anti-Neoliberalism from the ideology of the party. I do not think it is correct for the ruling party that has Alexei Kudrin who is a self-declared neo-liberal.

In my honest opinion United Russia is not an ideological party but a power grabbing group of administrators and businesspeople. They are united not to implement some ideologicaly-driven policy changes but just to push out the other power seeking groups Alex Bakharev (talk) 02:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The presence of a token member of the opposite ideology such as Alexei Kudrin Is part of the common tactic of Incorporation and cooptation. In studying comparative government you see this phenomenon in nearly every dominant regime: the Trotskyite Workers' Party (Brazil) who has been highly successful electorally selected a capitalist for the role of vice-president , And the United States Republican party frequently uses token democrats such as Zell Miller and Joseph Lieberman to project the image of multiparty consensus.

As for policies United Russia’s quasi socialist Keynesian policy of Nationalizing key industry sectors and restricting media ownership are certaly opposed to Neoliberal principles and have received the support of communist Mikhail Gorbachev who said "Putin is pursuing policies that benefit the majority of the Russian people," . Undeniably the fact that Neoliberal factions such as the now defunct Union of Right Forces were strongly opposed to UR’s platforms and the fact that the modern remnants of the pro-western and Neoliberal parties under The Other Russia have become the most vehement critics of UR while the Communists have tacitly supported it’s policies goes to show that it is opposed to the Anatoly Chubais neoliberalism.

As for your opinion of United Russia being a Power seeking group it does have some validity , However the policies and ideology are what define a political party and movments such as Peronism. Additionally the goal of most political parties is “power grabbing; The United States Republican Party’s goals under Karl Rove were the creation of a permanent Republican majority, UR was simply more successful in that respectFreepsbane (talk) 17:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I remove "populism".

say nothing on UR's policies.

is a blog

contradicts that UR is populist:

Disavowing a populist position calling for expropriation of the assets of the rich, Russia must protect its business class, who in return must “pay taxes and respect traditions and morals.”

And finally, the only to say something on this in one sentence is . Sentence says, UR uses some elements of left parties agenda, and calls it "populism".

United Russia has essentially marginalized the liberal parties by adopting many elements of their economic agenda. At the same time, KPRF was undermined by the United Russia’s populist stand on some dear to the Communists issues such as prosecuting ‘oligarchs’, re-installing old Soviet symbols, and attempts to forge economic and political unions with former Soviet republics.

This is not what Misplaced Pages uses as sources.Garret Beaumain (talk) 22:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with your analysis and suggest you look at the context of the valid sources. Notes that Putin the leader and icon of UR notes that "He has raised over 20 million Russians out of grinding poverty, improved education, health care and the pension system, (partially) nationalized critical industries,' lowered unemployment, increased manufacturing and exports, invigorated Russian markets, strengthened the ruble, raised the overall standard of living, reduced government corruption, jailed or exiled the venal oligarchs, and amassed capital reserves of $450 billion." a essential list of populist actions done in a anti-neoliberal Keynesian manner.

Your OR. Source does not claim this actions are populist. And, sorry, but "improved education, health care and the pension system, lowered unemployment..." - doesn't any government aims this? Every politician promises to do this, so every politician is a populist?Garret Beaumain (talk) 09:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

You are intentionally ignoring the statements noting that UR has nationalized key industries; A neoliberal government avoids taking an active role in the economy.Freepsbane (talk) 17:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

is a Essay by, Álvaro Vargas Llosa a well known critic of the new left wing governments that have been elected into power. In his essay he condemns what he sees as the populist authoritarian stances of the UR comparing it to the now dominant Latin American left.

A person's blog. It is easy to find such essays for Republican party of USA, for example, that would call their policies "populist". Examples: BusinessweekTime magazine (and no blogs!)Garret Beaumain (talk) 09:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Vladislav Surkov in a speech partly directed towards western observers would seem to disavow a populist stance. However he voices strong suport for the state nationalization of corporations and describes ‘’russia's enemies as oligarchic revanchists’’ Tellingly Surkov has compared Putin’s policies to the Social Democratic New Deal of Roosevelt Freepsbane (talk) 04:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

And where the word "populist" there?Garret Beaumain (talk) 09:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Anti-neoliberalism is esaily and neutrally can be described as conservatism, but "populism" is too a disputable term. Almost every politician was ever labelled as a populist by someone. It is not a program policy.Garret Beaumain (talk) 09:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The term conservatism is a misleading, vague and broad way to describe UR. The term conservatism in the west is acosiated with the policies of Thatcherism and Reganomics both supporters of neoliberalism. The term populism is not inherently POV and is used to describe many parties such as the Brazilian Democratic Movement Party, That said if you are so adverse to using the term Keynesian or Anti-Neoliberalism could be used to describe the policies.Freepsbane (talk) 17:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Anti-neoliberalism as a main ideology?

Regaring anti-neoliberalism as supposed official ideology of the party. Honestly speaking, I even didn't bother to read through all of the supposed 'sources', since simple google search gives 10 (!) hits for query '“United Russia” anti-neoliberalism' and 5 (!!) hits for '“United Russia” anti-neoliberal' (see).Needless to say, most of the hits were the very article here (!) or wiki clones. I didn't see any academic sources.IMHO a classical case of WP:SYNTH. 80.235.111.150 (talk) 15:19, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

It certanly is not a case of synthesis, all of the listed sources note that United Russia’s policies have oposed economic liberalism. United Russia’s leaders themselves have given speaches asailing oligarchs and have enacted nationalisation policies. Anti Neo liberalism is more specific and avoids reader confusion with social liberalism and consecuently, Unless if you want to put down the more common google hits Iliberal/Anti liberal .Freepsbane (talk) 19:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so. Neither do Alex Bakharev, Miyokan, Garret Beaumain and apparently just every user other than you. Please stop putting your personal POV into the main infobox. Your sources do not have the term anti-neoliberalism which is not a widely used term anyway. Most google hits I got refer to Anti-Globalization or similar radical movements.

As to your sources.

1. Source 1 market oracle is hardly a definitive source. It's just one web site.
2. Source 2 Robertamsterdam.com seems to be a blog of a certain Robert Amsterdam.
3. Source 3 - Heritage Foundation - an American conservative think-tank. Totally unsuitable for sourcing categorical judgments here. (perhaps one might want to use Pravda as a source on political parties, too?)
4. 4. An article in Russian newspaper Moskovskiye Novosti, where Gorbachev argues that Putin's policies “Putin's policies were consistent with own social-democratic positions.” We might now also conclude that United Russia is a social democratic party, right?

All in all, none of your sources have anything close to analysis by a political scientists that would analyse the possible ideology of the United Russia party. Basically, the Internet is a bulky resource and anyone with a few time and internet access might find newpaper articles, blogs, commentary by political opponents etc. that would support or 'prove' whatever POV that the searcher would like to find. Even that Putin is the Antichrist and United Russia a satanic tool. Or whatever. But the point is, we must base an encyclopedia on neutral sources. If possible, on academic, impartial ones.

80.235.111.150 (talk) 08:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Until we either find a document of United Russia self-describing the party as Anti-Neoliberal or find an authoritative academic study that states this we cannot state United Russia to be anti-neoliberal. Besides Kudrin, a first Putin's deputy on economics is a self-described neoliberal, Illarionov, one of the most prominent Russian neoliberals was for a long time Putin's aide and so on. We have an article on Putinism, assuming United Russia is essntially Putin's party can we put Putinism as UR's ideology? There is also an article on Sovereign democracy many prominent United Russia's people selfdescribed their ideology as one maybe we could include this as an ideology? Alex Bakharev (talk) 08:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I was also thinking in this direction, i.e to add sovereign democracy, after some sources have been found to back up this. Also, 'populism' is an option, though the term might have some negative connotations. 80.235.111.150 (talk) 09:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I fail to comprehend your point. Neither Kudrin nor Illarionov have ever been members of United Russia, and the latter has never pledged support to it. Colchicum (talk) 18:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

With all due respect 80.235.111.150 one could look at your contributions and claim you have done nothing but POV pushing, so let’s not start throwing those accusations around. The fact remains that all of those sources you summarily rejected were from political scientists, yes the Heritage Foundation is Neoconservative bordering on imperialistic plataforms. Yet it still shows that the world’s Western style far Right forces believe UR is anti Free market, at the same time the left leaning Gorbachev gives a similar position, along with a centrist UK business rag. If Anti Neoliberal is in contention (although neoliberal describes Russia’s once powerful capitalist factions) then a new term that concisely describes United Russia’s Nationalisation/Anti liberal economic Social Justice actions. And yes I do agree sovereign democracy is a centerpiece of UR’s plataformFreepsbane (talk) 18:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

If Anti-neoliberalism was such a widely used term, you shouldn't have trouble finding an academic source that would elaborate on this topic. Instead of obstinately re-adding those random web pages as sources (which you have been doing for months). As of now, one may wonder, whether the term itself has been crafted by you. I think that discussion on the theme of nationalisation, privatisation, populism etc would suit in the article text. But no speculation in the main infobox. Thanks. 80.235.111.150 (talk) 18:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

As for alleged POV pushing by me. I do have a dynamic IP right now so I am not responsible for what my predecessors have done somewhere. Regarding Freepsbane's wording like “quasi socialist Keynesian policy” (Keynesianism equalled with Socialism!), 'populist actions done in a anti-neoliberal Keynesian manner', claims that UR must be “anti-neoliberal” supported by arguments like 'but they are supported by the communist Gorbachev', 'but the neo-liberal SPS opposed Putin (so Putin must be anti-neoliberal)', 'Communists have tacitly supported it’s policies', don't prove anything but the level of Freepsbane's disputing style. This is definitely not indicative of academic discussion, but of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. EOD as of now. 80.235.111.150 (talk) 18:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Don’t take my statements out of context. I never claimed that Keynesianism was the same as Socialism: I indicated that the Putin administration definitely employs Kensyan economic principles, and some observers claim UR’s nationalization policies are socialistic in nature. you yourself have yet to add a single “academic” source in your writings.

Furthermore anti neoliberal movements included within the neoliberal article as a anti page would be a POV fork. If a more general term such as anti Laissez-faire is fine with you then use it. As there are no problems with my sources, and they all state that UR is unfriendly to western style economic liberalism/capitalism.Freepsbane (talk) 19:31, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

“I indicated that the Putin administration definitely employs Kensyan economic principles″ - your own 'indications' are not enough. You'll need to have reliable sources. I suggest you find these, format the information neutrally and add it into the appropriate place in the article as others have done. There are surely plenty of sources that portray UR as an evil neo-liberal capitalist party that is continuing “Yeltser's” masonic policies etc. But not all such opinions are notable, or what?!80.235.111.150 (talk) 19:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Indeed not all sources are notable, however I think converging opinions from well known Individuals such as the Neocons and Gorb are both notable and ironically synergistic. Freepsbane (talk) 20:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Continuing additions of unsourced POV text into infobox.

Though the account Freepsbane (talk · contribs) seems to have left editing after the last one of his reverts on October 16 , various IPs - first from Canada (76.102.245.63 (talk · contribs)), second from from Italy (87.8.151.67 (talk · contribs)) are carrying on the edit war in a similar manner.

Removal of sourced material and adding Socialism into infobox (perhaps he might try adding communism next time?) is already bordering on vandalism. Such unfounded changes should be undone by constructive users at the first sight. --80.235.111.150 (talk) 13:27, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Conservatism? Right-wing!? Is this a joke?

Are you kidding me? I used to live in Russia, and spent a large portion of my life there (eleven years). Let me tell you, United Russia's ideology is NOT conservatism! It is most certainly not a right-wing party!. The party is largely comprised of former communists and/or members of the Soviet Communist Party turned "democrat". This is a joke! There is nothing right-wing about this party. It is an anti-personal freedom, anti-free market, anti-small government, anti-everything-the-west-stands-for party. If you want to define right-wing as promoting traditional values (as opposed to economic liberalism), even then you couldn't call UR right-wing! This is absurd! Absurd!

--Gneek (talk) 01:46, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Ideology/ Russia's political landscape

I agree that it is difficult to determine the ideology of such a party (as also indicated by the debates on the talk page here and the range of opinions to this question). Commentators agree that it is diffcult to say, what kind of ideology that organization - party of power - really adhreses to. But this is exactly why we should try to avoid POVish notions and all kinds of OR.
For example, I can only regard as counterproductive, if some users insist on introducing the field 'position' to the infobox. See above: here a user appeared who is convinced there's nothing right wing about this party, yet some keep on adding very arbitrary position = Social: Center-right Fiscal: Center-right to the infobox.
Such a thing definitely adds more to miscomprehension, than to knowledge. Such a simplistic classification may be used in case of the US political parties, but it really says nothing about Russian ones. If the UR were centre-right on both 'social' and 'fiscal' affairs (how exactly did one determine such a thing in Russian context?), then where are its foes like SPS or Kasparov located? I think it is still better to retain just the the notion centrism. This left-right spectrum is disputed in the Western political science, and much better models have been offered to map the Russian political parties. In 1990s, as one analyst writes

When discussing political orientation, the popular Western terminology of "the right" and "the left" is little suited to Russian realities.

There is, however, a more fundamental objection to the use of the "left-right" terminology. The political landscape in Russia is not a straight line, but more like a triangle. One apex is the democrats, another the communists and the third, the patriots. While the democrats can be described as "right" Western-style, and the communists as "left", some of the patriots lean to the left and others to the right, and yet both belong in the same camp. The political forces in-between these apexes are, naturally, called "centrists". As current usage has it, democrats in Russia are those who advocate continued or resumed reform leading away from totalitarian socialism toward Western-style free-market democracy. The communists are made up of those groups who want to see a complete or partial restoration of the political and economic situation that existed prior to 1991. The patriots, nationalists and national-patriots are those who sometimes agree and sometimes disagree with the free market economy, but in any case believe that restoring the great Russian state is more important than rehabilitating the economy. The patriots, for their part, are divided into ethnic patriots (ethnic nationalists) and imperial patriots (imperial nationalists). Ethno-nationalists see a future great Russian state in ethnic and racial-ethnic terms, while imperial patriots put the ethnic, racial and national characteristics of the state low on the list of their priorities or dismiss them altogether.

Until recently (about 1993) the "centrists" were those whose position was wishy-washy and who vacillated between the main opposing forces, leaning to the winning side. At present, the "center" is more stable and independent of the apexes of the political triangle: the "centrists" are those who want to consolidate the results achieved so far in the belief that reforms have by and large been completed, and who do not want a return to the pre-Gaidar past.

(See ). Despite changes since that time, the political landscape in Russia can fundamentally be summarized as such a triangle (there used to be a graph online, too, but I couldn't find it right now). I really doubt if adding position = Social: .... Fiscal: .... would enable to summarise useful information in the articles on Russian political parties. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 09:53, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism

I belive this is pure vandalism. Non-notable and non-reliable sources. Nanobear (talk) 06:27, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Thats not really true anymore , ive given many sources that it is soKids4Fun/TALK 14:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Why is it so important for you insert this controversial catchphrase (invented by a blogger) into the lead? You even reverted my compromise version. It's certainly enough to state the current level of popularity. What do you think happened if, instead of "40% of Americans support the Democractic Party", I added "20% of Americans hate the Democratic Party" into the lead of Democratic Party (United States)? Your edit does not adhere to WP:NPOV - we're trying to build an encyclopedia here, not a political blog or journal. Nanobear (talk) 12:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

What was wrong with my compromise version? Why do you just keep reverting? Nanobear (talk) 11:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Not only this is not vandalism, but this is a widespread expression and opinion in Russia promoted by Navalny and many others. Biophys (talk) 04:07, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it is OK to start a proper criticism section, however, currently there's just an opinion of one commentator listed there. I agree with those, who argue that this opinion doesn't belong to the lead, at least for the time being. (For comparison many more people think too that Yeltsin headed a corrupt regime of crooks, but in such a wording it would be misplaced in the lead of the resp. article. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 11:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the criticism section. One half was uncited claims and anecdotes, another contained wrongly cited sources and labels, instead of serious criticism. What we need is neutral, well-referenced, serious criticism from experts. GreyHood 22:54, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Also, I've just checked the political party articles in the other countries, e.g. Republican Party (United States) or Democratic Party (United States) and I don't see any kind of criticism section or primitive propaganda bickering there. And that's good, no need to turn Misplaced Pages to political arena. GreyHood 22:59, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

I would say that the slogan "The party of Crooks and Thieves" is so widespread by now it should be mentioned. Even Putin seem to connect the phrase with United Russia as can be seen from what happened in Novosibirsk recently . Närking (talk) 18:47, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

"Crooks and thieves"

Hi! My position on that is like this. The "crooks and thieves" meme was launched by A. Navalny, got traction in the blogosphere and spread into the real world. There was even a big opinion poll on that showing some serious percentage of the population are (1) aware and (2) agree. Now it is widely mentioned/discussed in secondary sources (see refs in the "Criticisms" section). Misplaced Pages, as a tertiary source, should mention it then. No options here. Just because: it is a notable fact. From what I understand about Mr Greyhood, he has a recurring motive of proving Russia is great. There is nothing bad about that, but it is not an excuse for erasing entire sections (with nice citations, BTW). Yours, Gritzko (talk) 05:28, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

The spread of the meme to the real world is questionable, and even on internetz it is supported just by some bloggers, not everyone or the majority. Media like The Econonmist and The Guardian tend to give excessive attention to actions of the marginal Russian political opposition with dismal ratings.

You know better than the Economist, that's for sure. Given your solid background, please feel free to dismiss any media. Gritzko (talk) 09:35, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

"A big opinion poll", at least the one that was cited, has shown no serious percentages, just a typical level of critical perception of the government found in Russia and in most societies. 14% said "definitely yes" to the slogan, and 19% said "likely yes", with 29% "likely no" and 18% "definitely no" (I do not know, who did misuse the source and inserted 64% support into the article). So this is not a majority view in Russia, and the percentage of those who supported the slogan roughly corresponds to the percentage of people who support other parties than the United Russia.

That is your interpretation. Gritzko (talk) 09:35, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages has no utmost need to mention anything found in secondary sources, even the most respectable ones. It is a matter of editorial consensus to choose what material is the most important and relevant to include into the article.

Basically you're saying you'll filter facts/publications the way you see fit. Gritzko (talk) 09:35, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

The existing policies and practices should be taken into account. Per WP:NPOV and the examples of good political party articles, like the Republican Party (United States), Democratic Party (United States), Labour Party (UK), Conservative Party (UK), there is no place for low-level political slogans and no need for a separate criticism section at all. Misplaced Pages should not be used as political battleground. GreyHood 09:07, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Nonsense. You cannot avoid politics in an article on a political party. There is a fact, the fact is well-published, period. Your personal attitudes don't matter. Gritzko (talk) 09:35, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

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