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Title

Excuse me, but why is this not titled 2008 financial crisis like it has been and should be? The financial crisis is over, whether there is a recession now is irrelevant to the events of 2008 specifically. No, not 2007, no not 2012. Someone should take charge to reverting the title and getting some of the crap monikers of "Great recession" - no one has used that word but the President himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.205.81.131 (talk) 00:05, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I think the current title should stand as it is. Even during the Great Depression, there were times when many thought they were "out of it" or "heading out of it". The Obama Whitehouse would like everyone to believe we are out of it, for their own political purposes. But, while there have been many "ups", nowhere near all the "downs" have been fixed; nor does it appear that further major "downs" will not continue, and probably grow significantly. Diligentdave (talk) 22:41, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

World map of GDP growth rates

I posted this on the talk page for the image but I'll post it here too. The map of world GDP growth rates shows Botswana's economy collapsing with Zimbabwe's economy slightly rising. I'm no economist but I do read the news; isn't Botswana the one with the relatively thriving economy while Zimbabwe is the one with the collapsing economy?

Right now Botswana is the country in southern Africa that is dark brown (i.e. decreased 8-10%) while Zimbabwe, to its immediate northeast, is green.

Zimbabwe gave up on its currency and adopted the greenback. That might have something to do with it, especially considering that "improvement" would be relative to previously rock-bottom (and digging). - Tenebris

Trimming External Links

I have trimmed the external links section per WP:EL. Please add links with care, making sure that they are allowed by a specific category detailed at WP:ELYES. For convenience of use as sources, I'm listing the links trimmed below. Note that some of these links don't qualify as reliable sources.

• Fengbo Zhang: 1. Perspective on the United States Sub-prime Mortgage Crisis, 2. Accurately Forecasting Trends of the Financial Crisis, 3. Stop Arguing about Socialism versus Capitalism
• Stewart, James B. "Eight Days: the battle to save the American financial system", The New Yorker magazine, September 21, 2009.
• Testing the Efficiency of the Commercial Real Estate Market: Evidence from the 2007-2009 Financial Crisis - Paper by Otto Van Hemert, NYU Stern & AQR Capital Management
• Credit Crisis Indicators (Updated daily) - Five ways to measure recent market disruption, from the New York Times
• The Great Commercial Paper Meltdown of 2007
• Atwood, Margaret, Payback: Debt and the Shadow Side of Wealth. Toronto: House of Anansi. 2008
• Cohan, William D., House of Cards. Tale of Hubris and Wretched Excess on Wall Street. New York: Doubleday. ISBN 978-0-385-52826-9
• Ferguson, Niall, The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World. London: Allen Lane. 2008. ISBN 978-1-84614-106-5
• Gjerstad, Steven (April 6, 2009). "From Bubble to Depression? Why the Housing Bubble Crashed the Financial System but the Dot-com Bubble Did Not". Wall Street Journal. p. A15. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |month= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
• Haigh, Gideon, ‘Stupid Money’, Griffith Review 25, Queensland: Griffith University, Spring 2009, pp. 13–46. ISBN 1448-2924
• John C. Hull, The Credit Crunch of 2007: What Went Wrong? Why? What Lessons Can Be Learned?, Rothman School Research Paper: "Microsoft Word - JCRpaper.doc" (PDF). Retrieved November 11, 2009.
• Impact of the Financial Crisis Towers Perrin Thought Leadership
• Davis Polk Financial Crisis Manual
• Tracking the Global Recession accurate and useful information from Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis
• Sjostrom, Jr., William K. "The AIG Bailout". (2009)
• Tett, Gillian, Fool’s Gold: How Unrestrained Greed Corrupted a Dream, Shattered Global Markets and Unleashed a Catastrophe. London: Little, Brown (ISBN 978-1-4087-0164-5) / New York: Simon and Schuster, 2009.
• Woods, Thomas (2009). Meltdown: A Free-Market Look at Why the Stock Market Collapsed, the Economy Tanked, and Government Bailouts Will Make Things Worse. Washington, DC: Regnery. ISBN 1596985879.
• Ruppel, Conrad: Global Financial Crisis: Corporate Governance and Regulation"Dimensions of the Global Financial Crisis ". Cuvillier-verlag.de. Retrieved May 1, 2010., Cuvilier Verlag, Göttingen 2010, ISBN 978-3-86955-256-9.
• Erollover on housing bubble
• Text and summary of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008
• Nocera, Joe (October 1, 2008). "36 Hours of Alarm and Action as Crisis Spiraled". New York Times. Retrieved October 2, 2008. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) (Background on development of the Treasury proposal to Congress)
• "The Day the S.E.C. Changed the Game" Report by Stephen Labaton Produced by Amy O'Leary in The New York Times: September 28, 2008 -->
• A view from inside the financial world. Deeper analysis and part of the solution ? Eddy Vanderlinden
• Financial Crisis -Theological Responses and Resources
• 2008-2009 Global Financial Crisis (useful links)
• Number of failed banks in USA from 2000 to 2009
• What Gave Rise to the Global Financial Crisis?
• IPS News - Financial Crisis special report
• Williams, Mark T. (March 2010). "Uncontrolled Risk: The Lessons of Lehman Brothers and How Systemic Risk Can Still Bring Down the World Financial System". Mcgraw-Hill.

"Late-2000s" is not a good name for this article

The title for this article is undoubtedly wrong. "Late-2000s" is completely imprecise.

Firstly, what period does this refer to - it could be 2900 to 3000 for example. Secondly, let's suppose it means the latter part of the first decade, like 2005 to 2010 - then it excludes the current year, when the crisis is very much still ongoing.

I think Mike Schwartz comments above about the previous title for this article are completely correct - this article should be called "Financial Crisis of 2007-Present".

(Paulbotha23 (talk) 09:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC))

Absolutely. The current title is ambiguous, as it could be (and I did initially) read as referring to the late part of the millennium, rather than the decade. Ironically, you could just as easily call this the "Early-2000s financial crisis" for the same reason. There must be a less ambiguous name.

—SterlingNorth (talk) 10:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm surprised the name isn't "Global Financial Crisis," as that, or GFC, are the most common terms I've heard it referred to, yet neither of these terms are even mentioned on the page (outside the refs). Google gives 12 million hits for "global financial crisis" (with quotes) compared to the term used at the top of the article, "great recession," which nets 4 million. DrHacky (talk) 06:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Ability to find in a search is extremely important, so if someone knows how to change the title then go ahead. I forgot how or I would do it. It is very simple to do.Phmoreno (talk) 13:17, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I would also call it Global Financial Crisis. We never had a global financial crisis before, and the current crisis is often refereed to as such. If anyone has a doubt, do a disambiguate page, but I vote to call this GFC as many above. --Wikijasmin (talk) 19:43, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree. 113.203.142.160 (talk) 12:28, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree entirely! I also think the name, even now, is incredibly pretentious. The article on the Great Depression is not called "late 1920s to late 1930s financial slowdown," it's called the Great Depression. Why can't this article be named the Global Financial Crisis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.13.238 (talk) 06:42, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I think that the 2007–2012 global financial crisis page should be renamed global financial crisis, after all it'snot over yet so this smaks of recentism.Slatersteven (talk) 15:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

See (long and dirty) discussion below :) SPat 15:19, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request

I believe this is out of date. "The U.S. Senate passed a regulatory reform bill in May 2010, following the House which passed a bill in December 2009. These bills must now be reconciled. " 72.187.98.128 (talk) 10:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Role of Credit Ratings Agencies & Litigation

I think that this article should include the significant role the credit ratings agencies played in facilitating the markets for derivatives, CDOs and CDSs. Without their consistent Triple A ratings the investment banks and their investors would have been forced to do much greater risk assessments, which may have mitigated the crisis.

I also think it would be relevant to document the litigation that resulted from the crisis, and in a general sense what that process has contributed to a sense of culpability. Have the courts aportioned responsibility/blame through litigation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.14.13 (talk) 13:42, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Name Change

I am happy that the name changed to 2008-2012 Global Financial Crisis. It's a step in the right direction. However, in my view the crisis started already in 2007. Even the article describes events that already happens in 2007 (e.g. the collapse of Northern Rock in the UK occurred in 2007). Literally, we could debate for ages if the crisis started in 2007, 2008, or in 2006 - but there is not a precise date, as well the crisis might not end in 2012.

I suggest to change the name to "Global Financial Crisis" at it is also called in the article several times and as it is commonly known to economists or the laymen. "Global Financial Crisis" already redirects to this article anyway. I know it requires a bit of courage to call it just "Global Financial Crisis", but in my view it would be the best name for the article.

Let us know your views. --Wikijasmin (talk) 19:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Other articles documenting ongoing events change the article title as the years go by (e.g. "2008–2012" becomes "2008–2013," etc..), and I think that should work well for the current title. I think it may be slightly early to call it just the "global financial crisis," especially when almost every economic crisis in modern history is global or arguably so. If a strong consensus develops for a move, or a strong media consensus develops around the name, then I think it's great, but I'd err on the side of caution for now. After all, titling something like the "Great Depression" has downsides in that it may introduce bias when first learning about the subject (as if it's the only "great" depression, or it's the largest depression of all time, arguably encouraging a certain deficit in common interest related to the Depression of 1873–79 and other similar events). 2007 may be a good year to use for the beginning of the crisis, though I thought 2008 might be the least controversial (in that the fewest number would argue the crisis had yet to begin in 2008). I think addressing the relative ambiguity of when the crisis actually began would make a great addition to the article ("economists x and y place the beginning of the crisis in 2007, and some suggest strain was apparent related to z in mid-2006" etc..). --Xaliqen (talk) 06:36, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree with 2008-2012 Global Financial Crisis. 113.203.142.160 (talk) 12:29, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I may be a bit behind on this, but what set of criteria are we using to determine whether the crisis has ended? I feel that going by sources could be a bit tricky, because I think you will always have a number of people saying "the economy is in trouble" at any given point of time. Again, I'm probably being very naïve about this, and my apologies if this has already been fought over elsewhere. SPat 16:55, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I think you are right. There is a number of people who would say that the crisis already ended in the US, while others would say that it still goes on (in particular in Europe). However, there is probably even a separate article on the European sovereign debt crisis. Thus, it's not clear if the crises ended or not, or if it transformed into a different crisis (that goes under a different Misplaced Pages title).

Furthermore, why do we assume that the crisis will ever end? Maybe this will be like a Japanese style depression that will go on forever (see Lost Decade (Japan)). I wonder who actually determined here that the global financial crisis started in 2008, because in my understanding it started all in 2007.

However, if the policy is to update the years of ongoing events on a rolling basis - I am fine with it. Although, am I the only one who things the crisis stared in 2007? --Wikijasmin (talk) 04:17, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm a complete outsider in this field, but let me just add my $0.02:

The way I see it, the "financial crisis" started around the time of the crash of Bear Sterns (summer '08), Lehman Bros. and Merrill Lynch (fall '08). I'm assuming there exist some measures of stability of financial institutions (banks etc.), and I would say that these would mark the end of the financial crisis. My guess is that with this reasoning, the financial crisis ended in 2011.

I think that the financial troubles of 2007 are pretty much described in the subprime mortgage crisis article (including, say, the collapse of Northern Rock). Further, the current financial problems seem to be localized to Europe (as covered in European sovereign-debt crisis), and even if they do lead to a global crisis, that crisis would be distinct from the subject of this article.

To summarize, I propose we mark a clear distinction between the following three articles

• Subprime mortgage crisis: which describes the events leading up to the financial crisis (late 90s to 2007)
• 2008–2011 global financial crisis: subject to verification as above
• European sovereign-debt crisis: which may turn into a global financial crisis itself, but that will be a different article (2012 onwards)

I'd like to hear what y'all think about this. Best, SPat 15:24, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I think if you consider that the Global Financial Crisis was preceded by Subrime mortgage crisis then the year 2008 might be a good start. I initially considered that the Global Financial Crisis started with the subprime crisis (i.e. that it was a part of it), but if you keep it separate that is fine too.

I also wonder why we do not use the years for the Subprime mortgage crisis' nor the European sovereign-debt crisis, but for the Global Financial Crisis we need to add the years 2008-2012. As with the other two crisis, it is not perfectly clear when it started and when it ended.

I am sure some people would say that the Global Financial Crisis is still ongoing, while I do understand your point that it ended in 2011. Same some people would say that the sub-prime crisis was the first period of the Global Financial Crisis, while I also understand the other argument that the financial crisis actually started with the collapse of Bear Sterns. --Wikijasmin (talk) 21:32, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Please see the RFCs on this from last year at (can find the archives!)

There are 3 problems with the "2012" title

• The financial system is not in crisis - nobody thinks it's in imminent danger of collapse, which is what a financial crisis is - not at all the same thing as a recession.
• Some pretty good sources that say it was over in 2009 or 2010 - see the stabilization section
• This can be fairly political - so I'm sure you can find some politician somewhere who says that there is a crisis, but we need real economic or financial reliable sources that say that we are in a financial crisis - and I just don't think that they are there.

So ultimately you need to "Get a source." We should just move it back to the old title, and call an RfC if anybody disagrees. Smallbones (talk) 02:13, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I had a look at the previous discussions and RfCs and they all seem to be inconclusive at best. I tried a quick search of my favorite sources (Wall Street Journal, Al Jazeera, New York Times, The Guardian,...) and the overall impression confirms my original idea: that everything after 2011 is included under "European sovereign debt crisis". In particular, see this Guardian article:

It's also perhaps appropriate to rename European sovereign debt crisis to (say) 2011-2012 sovereign debt crisis in order to include problems in Washington in that article. I did not find many sources to settle the 2007 v. 2008 starting issue. Secondly, I feel that it's probably not a great idea to rely on mainstream sources (such as my Guardian ref. above) to decide this issue. It would be very helpful if someone could suggest any reputed academic review articles which discuss the extent of the crisis. (To give an analogy, if this were in my field - Physics, I would rely on Nature and Science as sources, rather than main stream media OR the primary academic papers)

To summarize, I am certain that the "-2012" should not be there in the title, but I'd like to see more sources/opinions. As I said earlier, my vote is for 2008-2011 global financial crisis. Meanwhile, I request all editors to please not move the article until we have a consensus. Once we do agree on a consensus title, we should probably get it move-protected.

Sorry for the long post, SPat 17:17, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree that there is a need for sources to settle the issue, that there may not be a consensus among the sources, and that there isn't a consensus here ... yet. My vote is for the "intersection of all sets" ... i.e. "Global Financial Crisis." I'm sure someday with hindsight there will be a common name given to the crisis but right now everyone seems to know that we are talking about the recent financial crisis. Jason from nyc (talk) 11:54, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I've asked for comments on WT:Economics and WT:Finance. I hope the experts there have something to say. SPat 16:03, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

-Seems like a scope issue, not a time-date issue- If we are talking about this being a global crisisBold text, then it's very much on-going except the battleground has moved from Wall Street to Europe (Greece, Spain, Ireland, etc.). It that case, the article about it being over should be qualified to being over in the US not as a whole. If we are talking about only the U.S. then yes, it is over but then the article should be changed to U.S. Financial Crisis. Right now it's a bit of both and should be corrected. Moreover, even if you change it to the U.S. financial crisis then any day now you might wake up to it continuing because it seems the underlying causes of the crisis have not been addressed and Europe going into a financial freefall will take Wall Street with it (since they are its lenders). Also, see required viewing below.

--Daniel E Romero (talk) 01:42, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

But scope translates to time-period in history. First we must get from the sources what they define as "crisis". That tells us scope and period. If the financial problems started in '06 or '07 but didn't reach crisis proportions until 2008, that might be an argument for 2008 as the crisis year. Note that our second paragraph reads " Although there have been aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between late-2008 and mid-2009." If this article is merely about the financial crisis or private banking crisis, it might be called "Global Financial Crisis 2008" with little loss of accuracy. The following recession was an economic crisis caused by the financial crisis.

The subsequent global government debt crisis was caused by a drop in tax receipts (and increase in spending) that comes with recession.But if the scope is narrow (break down in private banking and credit) the subsequent recession and government debt might be relegated to other articles or added at the end in a aftermath section with links to other articles.

Thus, the question is what do the best sources define as crisis both in scope and depth? I would think that this has to be decided with editors of other articles on finance and economics (as SPat suggests). Jason from nyc (talk) 14:49, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

The decline started in late 2007. Thats when the housing bubble burst. MohammedBinAbdullah (talk) 16:16, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I have no trouble with that assertion but I believe we should use and reference common terminology instead of original research. And we should reach some consensus. Jason from nyc (talk) 00:13, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Name Change (Dissent)

I am unhappy with this name change. The world economy grew by 5.3% in 2010 and 3.9% in 2011, and is projected at 3.5% in 2012 according to the IMF. This is 13.2% total growth. The vast majority of countries shared in this growth. There is little question that the vast majority of humanity is better off in 2012 than in 2009. In no sense has the 'world economy' been in 'recession' or 'crisis' throughout this entire period. Media attention in the West has disproportionately focused on a few places of the world (southern Europe, the UK/US) that either are still in recession or are experiencing slow job growth. Rather than a singular event, this is really separate, discrete events that have very little if anything to do with each other. For example, the troubles of Greece are rooted in its adoption of the Euro; it was not caused by US subprime mortgages. The BRIC nations and Africa have grown steadily during this period and been little affected by Greece's woes, and so on. To try to create a single narrative based on the US housing market and asset some global recession lasting into 2012 is completely absurd, IMO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.45.73.51 (talk) 02:49, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Your argument has merit, but I believe that not only are these disparate events linked together (if not by a single cause, then by knock-on effects such as the interdependence of financial markets, and the fact that slowdowns in developed economies mean less demand for exports from BRIC nations, etc.) but moreover that the World economy is still fragile. In recession? No. In crisis? Possibly. There are still events that could cause major disruption if not dealt with, the EU sovereign debt crisis among them. The fact that economic growth continues does not mean "crisis averted". Recent articles like "IMF cuts global growth forecast as emerging economies slow" that say things such as "emerging market nations, long a global bright spot, being dragged down by the economic turmoil in Europe" make it clear that events in developed nations impact the economies of developing ones, and that the world economy is not currently on a sure footing. For example this article mentions "a slowdown not only in China, the world's second-largest economy, but anemic growth across the BRIC grouping of major emerging economies". Fleetham (talk) 14:46, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

He/She has a very good point. Your point is valid also but if we take "links" as a reason for inclusion we'll never end. Each phase of the business cycle leads to the next. The article has become bloated. We need a discussion to break down history. This might be: banking crisis of 2008, recession of 2009, sovereign debt crisis, etc. The fact that one leads to the next doesn't mean we should have a super-article with all of economic history. Jason from nyc (talk) 15:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, links are a reason for inclusion. Fleetham (talk) 15:44, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Move article to "Global Financial Crisis"

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved - Some rationale is warranted for the No Move decision. The arguments that Global financial crisis is vague and ambiguous are strong and supported by reliable sources. Google scholar discloses sources as early as 1897 that refer to “global financial crisis”. Ngram shows the phrase becoming prevalent in the 1960s. The fact that lots of sources refer to the current situation as a Global financial crisis is merely reflective of its “current event” status. We must remember that WP is a general encyclopedia that covers centuries of history and not a current events encyclopedia dominated by the latest news. However, the arguments that the present dates being used in the title may not be precise or accurate may be valid and as such warrant continued discussion on the talk page. Not so much as to what they should be in the title, but to ensure the article’s content is accurate and supported by sources. The current title leaves no doubt that the article is about the contemporary (on-going?) financial crisis and the article’s content support that. If the crisis started in 2007 and is indeed on-going in 2013, the current title will serve readers adequately for another 7 months. As with all contemporary, on-going events (especially one as global and complex as this is) there is always difficulty (even by learned scholars) in defining the boundaries. If the dates need changing, and reliable sourcing and consensus supports a new range of dates, I will move the article. It is now move protected. Mike Cline (talk) 17:12, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

2007–2012 global financial crisis → Global Financial Crisis – In my view, the less cumbersome, the less complex, and the more accessible an article name is, the better. In this case, there are two additional points to support the page move. The first is that no reader will reasonably confuse "Global Financial Crisis" with any other similar event in history, rendering the "year" prefix to the article redundant. The second is that the current "2007-2012" designation is unstable, as editors (and indeed, economists) cannot determine when the event started or ended, or whether it is still on-going. The only point of contention is whether or not we make the GFC a proper noun (i.e. capitalize all the initials). Colipon+(Talk) 00:49, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Are there any particularly convincing arguments about why this page shouldn't simply be called the "Global Financial Crisis"? I can't see it having dab issues with any other similar event in history, not to mention that there are obviously issues with determining which year it began and which year it ended, in addition to the scope of 'crisis'. It would make much more sense to just skip the year designation altogether. Colipon+(Talk) 03:56, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree. While I agree also with Jason from NYC comments above, it might be easier to just call it Global Financial Crisis and maybe add a section on the precise date/scope being unclear because we are still very close from its happenings. Although this might be a loss of accuracy in the article. But it also seems we haven't been able to come to a consensus... --Daniel E Romero (talk) 08:42, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree as well. I feel that if/when anyone wants to dab this to "YYYY-YYYY global financial crisis", the burden of proof is on them to provide conclusive sources supporting the title. Does anyone know if we could get an admin to move-protect this once we do move it to the new title? P.S.: busy with finals this week - can't spend too much time over here... SPat 21:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

• Comment considering the number of commentators calling part of the Great Depression also a global financial crisis, a hatnote may also be in order. 70.49.124.225 (talk) 06:45, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose, it's too ambiguous, it's not a permanent name. During the 1970s people talked about "the recession", but the Misplaced Pages article is 1973–75 recession. Some kind of qualifier is needed. Fifteen years from now, people won't be calling it The Global Financial Crisis... unless it's still going on. I wasn't in favor of changing to the current title of "2007–2012 global financial crisis", but at least it has the advantage that it will remain valid for the next seven months or so, after which the issue can be revisited. Unless and until some simpler name catches on, maybe a once-a-year rename update is the least bad option. -- P.T. Aufrette (talk) 03:21, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

• Support. We should not pre-disambiguate this term, so far "the Global Financial Crisis" only refers to a single subject. We are not here to predict whether or not it will stay that way (see WP:CRYSTALBALL). I also agree with the proposer that there should be special reason to try avoid pre-disambiguating for this term, since that we thereby avoid having to make the contentious judgment of when the crisis started and ended.TheFreeloader (talk) 09:55, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose, I agree w/ the nom that the current title isn't perfect at all. However, the first argument is definitely not true, see for example Category:Financial crises and especially Wall Street crash of 1929 (it's most certainly not a coincidence that the year is in the title), which would also come to my mind when thinking of a "Global Financial Crisis". Furthermore, no matter how the article title is, "financial crisis" should most certainly be decapitalized. Concerning the year, I'd go with something like "2007–" or "2007–present", since that's true, but "2007–2012" implies that it ends this year, which may or may not turn out to actually happen. --The Evil IP address (talk) 16:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • We've already established that the only other event of comparable magnitude that may have a run on this "GFC" name happened in the 1930s, and that event is known, unambiguously, as "the Great Depression". From a pragmatic standpoint, no one is going to confuse the two, or confuse the GFC with anything else in history. Thus that argument does not hold water. Colipon+(Talk) 16:22, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
• Support. There is no single dominant manner in the sources for referring to the financial crisis. Some refer to the 2008 bailout of the financial institutions as the crisis and the subsequent recession as post-crisis fallout. Others include the recession as part of the crisis. Still others include the EURO crisis and government debt explosion as a continuation--and others see it as separate. Our article says the crisis ended in 2009 (see paragraph two) which means the banking sector was stabilized at that point. Given a lack of consensus in the sources, I suggest a simple "Global Financial Crisis". Years from now a uniform manner of referring to the events may emerge at which time we can make one final change instead of the yearly changes we now make. Let's keep it simple and relatively uncontroversial. Jason from nyc (talk) 21:57, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
• Support. I have been following this crisis very closely since 2008 and after numerous articles, documentaries, and talks on the subject, unlike the examples cited above, e.g. Wall street crash of 1929, it is not clear if this event has ended. Moreover, unlike the crash of 1929 example, this is a current event, we do not have the luxury of historical analysis to clearly distinguish when this ended. We are in the middle of it now, therefore, it would seem prudent to wait until we are clearly out of this mess and have time and distance to reflect back on it before assigning it a dating qualifier. I feel that often some of us want it to be over already and are all too happy to end the "2012" end mark, but it you hear what economists are saying like Paul Krugman and want documentaries like PBS' Money, Power and Wall Street, this is far, far from over and right now rather than curing the cause, we have only temporarily put on a stop on its symptoms with no way of knowing whether the issue will recur. Unless you really narrow the scope on this article it doesn't make sense to have a dating qualifier. --Daniel E Romero (talk) 22:13, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose. It's not the one and only Global Financial Crisis. Renaming this article would be like naming an article "The Recession." There's sure to be more than one "global financial crisis" even if this happens to be the first. Besides, it goes against precedent; all the other articles of its ilk have dates attached. Fleetham (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
  • That is still basically WP:CRYSTALBALL, not to mention an implicit admission that this is the only event by widely known as the "Global Financial Crisis", further strengthening the case for the move. Colipon+(Talk) 01:38, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
  • It's just a general term not a proper noun. It's not forecasting to say "don't use general terms to refer to specific events." That's why every other article on recessions, bank panics, etc. have dates attached. A global financial crisis is something that happened and could happen again. The global financial crisis of 2007 onward is a specific event. Fleetham (talk) 03:06, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Just for reference, at present "Global Financial Crisis" redirects to our current article. There is no disambiguation page. There doesn't seem to be a need for disambiguation yet. Your concern for future contingencies is understandable. Still, GFC is less unstable than GFC 2007-2012. Jason from nyc (talk) 12:08, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

• Support Sources commonly refer to the crisis as the 'global financial crisis', per WP:COMMONNAME we should as well. In 1920, World War I was commonly referred to as the Great War; an encyclopaedia at that time would have referred to it as such. We can change the title of the article, if and when the name for this event changes. To try to pre-empt this change violates WP:CRYSTAL. LK (talk) 06:16, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Per WP:AT :"...the ideal article title will resemble titles for similar articles precisely identify the subject," "Titles are often proper nouns," and "Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined by reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources." The current title better meets Misplaced Pages's WP:NAMINGCRITERIA: Recognizability, Naturalness, Precision, Conciseness, and Consistency. Fleetham (talk) 09:56, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, I'm not sure why WP:CRYSTALBALL is being mentioned. That policy basically states, "don't write an article about an event that has yet to happen," which isn't the issue here. Could you or Colipon please explain its relevance here? Fleetham (talk) 10:03, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
    • There is more in WP:CRYSTALBALL than that, but the general gist of the policy is that we should not write Misplaced Pages based on our predictions of the future, we should observe how things are described at the moment by reliable sources and describe them the same way. And on WP:AT part, the current naming does not fit with criteria of Naturalness and Conciseness, Naturalness, as people would not normally call the financial crisis what the article currently is called, and Conciseness, as the current name is longer than it needs to be. WP:COMMONNAME is also a very important part of WP:AT, and the current title of this article is not the common name for this subject, barely any reliable sources use the current title to refer to the crisis.TheFreeloader (talk) 18:59, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
      • No argument about what it's commonly referred to as in newspapers, but those same articles would call any recession simply "the recession," and so WP:COMMONNAME isn't the most robust argument in this case.
      • Also, I think Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (events) is relevant here and also supports my don't use a common noun use a proper noun argument, as (although you may think differently) there is no "universally agreed-upon common name." It comes down to proving that such a thing exists. Fleetham (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
        • WP:NCE doesn't actually say anything about common nouns versus proper nouns, it just says that a term has to be a common name for it to be used, and as such WP:COMMONNAME still holds true. WP:NCE is just a guideline telling how make a title in case an unambiguous common name does not exist. I think it is clear that the "Global financial crisis" is the common name for this event, a quick search on any search engine will show you that it is very commonly used, just the common use of the shorthand "GFC" should indicate that it is becoming the common name of the event. And even if it wasn't the common name, I think the method WP:NCE sets out for finding a title for an article about an event still would lead us to this name. It says to first ask what happened, and where it happened, well it was a financial crisis and it happened globally, so it is the "Global financial crisis". Since this term, as I see it, isn't ambiguous, WP:NCE tells us to not put any further descriptors on the title. You have not actually shown yet that "global financial crisis" is used to any significant extent by reliable souces to refer to anything other or more general than the most recent financial crisis. I think the ball is in your court to show that it is.TheFreeloader (talk) 13:19, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
• Support, though I'm ambivalent about whether to give it capital letters. Global Financial Crisis (with or without capitals) is what it's called now, and what it's very likely to be called in the foreseeable future. I think the WP:CRYSTALBALL argument does hold, since although it might be called something else in ten or twenty years, that's not for us to prejudge (and it's certainly possible to move it whenever it does start being called something else...) I note that Global Financial Crisis already redirects here. At the very least the "–2012" part needs to go; I noticed that previously and thought it to be a little odd. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 21:57, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose, almost every modern financial crisis is 'global,' attaching a date is both more precise and encyclopedic. Suggesting this is the global financial crisis makes it more difficult to discuss other crises in an efficient manner. If you talk to a historian about the 'global financial crisis' they wouldn't necessarily know what you're talking about. If, on the other hand, you mention the '2007-2012 global financial crisis,' everyone knows exactly what you're referring to. --Xaliqen (talk) 23:32, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
  • If that were the case, can you give another example of something that could be construed as an example of a "global financial crisis" and has been referred to as such by a large number of reputable sources? Colipon+(Talk) 23:36, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
    • Sure, I'll spend the the time it takes to compile the list of sources you're asking for, just as soon as you prove 'global financial crisis' isn't ambiguous. If you want to use a generic title, the burden of proof is on you.--Xaliqen (talk) 23:50, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
      • A simply Google search for "Global financial crisis" in quotation marks - and you will find that all the references to such a name refers to the 2007-12 global financial crisis. Colipon+(Talk) 00:07, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
        • A simple Google search isn't enough to convince me we should use a generic term for a specific event. 'Global financial crisis' is a generic term. Furthermore, I don't see how Google, which favors recent events, is the best reference source for pre-2000s historic material. Here are several sources suggesting 'Global financial crisis' is a generic term that does not specifically refer to this particular event: Note the use of "a global financial crisis" in these articles, suggesting a generic term (especially when looking at the danger of future global financial crises). Note the following sources and their use of the term 'global financial crisis' predating 2007 (search within the article to find the term): There is quite a lot of evidence suggesting this term is generic and not specific to this incident. --Xaliqen (talk) 00:41, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment:(Edit conflict with Colipon) I agree that the title "Global Financial Crisis" has a problem: namely it is too generic. However, as it stands, any title of the form "20XX-20YY global financial crisis" has a problem that we're unable to find almost any conclusive source that'll allow us to settle what XX and YY should be. In a sense, we have to choose the lesser evil here: violating WP:PRECISE via an ambiguous title, or violating WP:VERIFY by an unreferenced title. I think WP:VERIFY is the more sacred principle here.

I actually did try searching for sources that could declare starting/ending points of the crisis, but the only one I came up with was the Guardian article that I quoted above. As I said earlier, I would really like if someone could suggest reliable academic sources that would help us settle with a well defined scope for start/end time. (This isn't really my field so I don't know what are the best places to find this). For those who just joined this discussion proposal, you may find it helpful to go through the discussion on article scope right above this. Best, SPat 00:16, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I am not sure that the title "Global Financial Crisis" would violate WP:PRECISE. The way I read the policy, it just says that if an article title isn't the primary topic for for a given title title, then it should be disambiguated. But this article is the primary topic for Global Financial Crisis, given that the namespace currently is a redirect to this article, and this article doesn't even have a hatnote. I think the current title is more of violation of WP:PRECISE, given that it more precise than it needs to be. There are no other Misplaced Pages articles competing for the title "Global Financial Crisis".TheFreeloader (talk) 08:34, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

My intermediate Economics text, Macroeconomics and the Financial System by Mankiw and Ball, refers to "The U.S. Financial Crisis of 2007-2009". Fleetham (talk) 03:20, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Support. Have a look at the history of Global Financial Crisis. Do we want to be doing this forever? The current crisis is the current primary meaning, and there is no evidence that this will change. It hasn't changed for The Depression, and the proposed title is even more specific and likely to stick. Andrewa (talk) 03:10, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose - financial crises are about banks and other financial institutions threatening to collapse en masse. By their very nature, they are fairly short term events. They are different from recessions. Please read the section on Stabilization - there are many sources that say they financial crisis was over in 2009. Is there a single reliable source that says directly that we are now in a financial crisis? Just noted Fleetham's comment above with " Macroeconomics and the Financial System by Mankiw and Ball, refers to "The U.S. Financial Crisis of 2007-2009" ". BTW, that was a direct challenge "Is there a single reliable source that says directly that we are now in a financial crisis?" Smallbones (talk) 04:18, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

That does not address this discussion, which is about the article move alone. Colipon+(Talk) 14:23, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

To spell it out, there have been lots of "Global financial crises". This article should be entitled "Financial crisis of 2007-2009" or similar. Smallbones (talk) 15:02, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Ok, but there is a lot of dispute over those dates (see above) - whether the subjective belief that it ended in 2009 is true or not. There are many reliable sources that say it did not end in 2009. There are also RS that say it did not begin in 2007. Some say it ended in 2011, some say 2012. Perhaps some of the dates are more convincing than others, but we cannot pinpoint an exact date from these disparate opinions. Colipon+(Talk) 16:27, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Re:"subjective belief that it ended in 2009" - this is no more subjective than any other "fact" supported by reliable sources on Misplaced Pages, i.e. it is supported by an official government commission, a Presidential speech, TIME Magazine, and the New York Times. Not to mention the Economics text cited above. And common sense supports this as well - we are simply not in a financial crisis now - just look at the stock prices of banks in 2008 vs. now. BTW, that was a direct challenge "Is there a single reliable source that says directly that we are now in a financial crisis?" Smallbones (talk) 17:25, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose - Keep 2007–2012 global financial crisis as it is. MohammedBinAbdullah (talk) 14:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Required viewing

PBS recently released a four-part documentary on Frontline about the financial crisis, where they interview many top heads of banks and other institutions to explain the how, why and ongoing effects of the Global Financial Crisis. After you watch this documentary you will likely reconsider any ideas that this is over. As discussed above by various people on the name change section - it's hard to pinpoint the exact start and end of the crisis. Here it is: http://video.pbs.org/video/2226666502 Hopefully, someone can enter some of this information into this article. --Daniel E Romero (talk) 01:42, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Late 2000's recession and this article

I am not an expert in this area, but is there any reason to have separate articles on the "Late 2000's recession" and the Global Financial Crisis? I find that the articles have a significant degree of overlap. While I can see why they would be separated (this article deals with financial aspects such as stock markets, liquidity, credit risk etc., while "Recession" deals with economic downturn in general), I am wondering if this is the best approach for our readership, who might end up on one article while looking for the other. Colipon+(Talk) 01:46, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

I think that the Global Financial Crisis is definitely a separate phenomenon from the recession that began (in the US) in 2007. Clearly they are related and arguably one caused the other but I think they are distinct.Jreiss17 (talk) 19:13, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Role of International Monetary Fund in the Global Financial Crisis 2007-2012

Just wondering did/would IMF help those economies in need and when? (122.126.109.222 (talk) 07:39, 26 May 2012 (UTC))

Plus, did the government of Greece received professional advices from American investment bankers (those headed to work for the White House afterward) to buy US private (banking and housing) debts before the crisis surfaced? Then US should be continually responsible for this global financial crisis. (122.126.109.222 (talk) 15:39, 26 May 2012 (UTC))

There's no doubt many people in the U.S. played a role in the global crisis (the U.S. as a country can hardly be responsible for anything, because it's a non-sentient idea). Historically, the evidence is already emerging that what was presented in the media at the time wasn't the whole story, but the people involved came from practically all countries around the world. Laying the responsibility on a particular group of people in a particular country is an overly-simplistic solution to a global problem. I'm sure we'll see this argument come up, though, seeing as how it's politically expedient to lay complex problems at one person's (or country's) feet. --Xaliqen (talk) 13:02, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree to imagine that in our age any other country's persons other than United States are resourceful enough to crackdown the world economy by its own selfish greed and in return devastated the economy of itself (United States). That is a failed trade-off in asymmetrical economic condition which is far less than expected by the Nobel Prize. (122.126.109.145 (talk) 18:23, 1 June 2012 (UTC))

Anyone who is interested about the step stone finding from Nobel Prize on Economic Sciences about the current 2007–2012 global financial crisis for the empirical research on cause and effect in the macro-economy, please refer to http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economics/laureates/2011/advanced-economicsciences2011.pdf . (125.225.89.30 (talk) 02:53, 2 June 2012 (UTC))

Link error

Somehow, in some articles, the article's title appears as a red link. Can it be repaired? 71.20.120.188 (talk) 23:54, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Which articles? It's possibly a typo (perhaps using title case). That can be fixed with redirects or simply changing the link. Which articles? bobrayner (talk) 14:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Further legal and political impacts

This article is missing information about Error: you must specify what information is missing.. Please expand the article to include this information. Further details may exist on the talk page.

I added a new section to cover the conviction of the former Prime Minister of Iceland. Listening to the news, there is considerable remarking on how few if any criminal charges have been made against any private parties who caused the crisis. There have also been significant political consequences, arguably resulting in power changes in several countries and perhaps precipitating the Arab Spring. These would be good areas for more research on this topic, especially as the events become more historical than current. -- Beland (talk) 21:00, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi. I am afraid the crisis is still current (and worsening) largely to United States only such as United States federal government credit-rating downgrade, 2011. (125.225.88.31 (talk) 04:17, 3 June 2012 (UTC))

Our article is both incomplete and inferior as can be expected in a contemporary report of a major event in world history. As future scholarly work evaluates this matter more reliable and comprehensive information will become available. Day by day accounts drawn from the popular media are a poor substitute for the verdict of history. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:01, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Marxian Explication of the crisis missing

David Harvey and other marxian scholars point out that, globally, this crisis seems pretty much the embodyment of the classic capitalistic crisis, with the search of financial gains - that is the classic reaction of the capital to the lowering of industrial profitability - leading up to financial innovations that "patched" an unsustainable situation only for some time. The difference with past crisis is that the global market has allowed more room for "kynetic accumulation" and that the actual world discourage at least one of the classic capitalist way out of these crisis: war. It would be noce if someone - maybe, someone more scholarly proficient than me - incorporated these observations into the article. No matter that Marx is still a 4 letter word for many in the USA, he wasn't always wrong.

By the way, as USA, UE, Japan and China all hope to climb out of the crisis improving exports, one can't help but wonder who's going to import what... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.50.151.216 (talk) 11:31, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

World GDP

Hi. Anyone who is interested on the History of World GDP please visit http://www.economist.com/node/16834943 . China was the predominant GDP owner until 1820. Industrial Revolution by the West that constructed the system of Capitalism (and Imperialism/New Imperialism to India and China) tilted the GDP growth to the West/Japan until year 2000. For details, see Historical Statistics of the World Economy 1-2008 compiled by Angus Maddison. (and The World Economy: Historical Statistics, most notably the ] Contours of the World Economy 1-2030 AD Essays in Macro-Economic History (ISBN：0199227209) published by Oxford University Press) (125.225.88.190 (talk) 07:52, 17 June 2012 (UTC))

rename?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, though, to paraphrase Captain Jack Sparrow, WP:RELTIME is more of a guideline. Favonian (talk) 15:56, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

2007–2012 global financial crisis → 2007–present global financial crisis – It is over half-way thru 2012 and there are continuing issues. 108.73.115.215 (talk) 06:51, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

• There's a policy called WP:RELTIME, which I think would discourage the use of the ill-defined concept of "the present". —BarrelProof (talk) 17:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
• Speedy close. Not much argument here. Colipon+(Talk) 21:25, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

IMF's update about the global financial crisis

Current update from the International Monetary Fund, see http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2012/06/index.htm . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.42.79.81 (talk) 15:35, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

How about "Global financial crisis of 2008"?

It has been proposed in this section that 2007–2008 financial crisis be renamed and moved to Global financial crisis of 2008. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

2007–2012 global financial crisis → Global financial crisis of 2008 – The argument is that the beginning and end are much harder to call than the high mark. Otherwise this would never end and the article could expand to cover everything financial under the sun till the end of times. Moreover, a five year span is no longer a crisis. A crisis is something swift and abrupt. Did you know that Pangaea is still breaking apart? Imagine they would have to carry around a "200M BC-2012" in a prefix and update every year! Yes, it is still happening! Really? Yes. Scroll down all the way and read. Yaniv256 (talk) 06:09, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

You have a point, and I think we do have an article on the acute crisis of 2008, or should; however, the title you suggest would not accurately describe the Great Recession which is still in progress. User:Fred Bauder Talk 12:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

And indeed it should not, as a recession is a lengthy ordeal which does warrant a separate article. It is also primarily a real economy event, so the tag "financial" is inappropriate. Yaniv256 (talk) 14:00, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I support this, this was one of the issues that was completely ignored in the RfC above. SPat 15:20, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

My true feelings are that dropping the "global" puff tag would also be advisable. But, I am holding back on that one as I am guessing there is no chance of establishing a consensus. Yaniv256 (talk) 17:01, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Moreover, with all due respect to the science of econometrics, it will probably never be quite clear if the financial crisis caused the recession or predicted it. So the two must be separate phenomena. Yaniv256 (talk) 17:11, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I think the article's title doesn't distinguish between the two related financial crises and the related recessions. The initial crisis should be covered here (pretty much as it is) while the 2009-present European sovereign-debt crisis is already covered in another article. The question is how to date the initial crisis. Clearly the crisis hit it's peak in Fall 2008, but it could be said to begin with Bear Stearns's collapse in March. The collapse of Northern Rock in could also be considered the beginning of the crisis or it might just be mentioned as an antecedent.--Bkwillwm (talk) 04:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Global financial crisis of 2007-2009 would perhaps be better, recognizing the fuzziness around the edges. Note that there is almost no mention in the text about 2010, 2011, or 2012. (Just search the text to see) All the hits here are on the publication dates of the sources. Since there is nothing about a financial crisis in 2010 or later, we have to change the article title. Also, please note the stabilization section - nobody has added to or refuted anything in this section. An obvious move. Smallbones (talk) 18:39, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Fine with me. In fact, anything that can get a consensus and change the current name to one of the mainstream names would be fine with me. But we got to change it! No encyclopedia in the world is going to call it that! The reason I didn't suggest this name is only that I thought it would not pass, because people would claim that this or that happened in 2010, or that it is not over yet. Why don't we put both names up for a poll together with the current name, and eliminate from the bottom? They both get my support. That said, my copy of "Advanced Macroeconomics" (2012) by David Romer titles the epilogue "The finanical and macroeconomic crisis of 2008 and beyond" so there is no shame in cutting the edges out. Yaniv256 (talk) 21:00, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Not sure on the mechanics of what you're proposing: an RfC limited to three choices? Go ahead with it in any case. Smallbones (talk) 21:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I am posting a table below. We can keep having this discussion here while at the same time casting our votes in the summary table. Anyone who can't figure how to vote in the table by himself or herself is welcome to post his wishes here and we will edit them into the table. Yaniv256 (talk) 21:56, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Financial crisis of 2007-2009 is recognizable, more concise without "global", and more precise than "2008" (but not overly precise).Jojalozzo 21:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

• Still prefer "Global financial crisis", as the name is more-or-less unambiguous in contemporary common usage. Colipon+(Talk) 02:13, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

As I understand the arguments - for:the term "Global" is very commonly used with the rest, so why not use it? against: everything in the financial world today is global, especially something as important as this - so it is simply redundant. I'm vacillating! Smallbones (talk) 02:45, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it is really not very important if we keep the global or not. Don't stress about it. The main thing is getting that -2012 down. Yaniv256 (talk) 03:21, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Oppose to any change The Global Financial Crisis has multiple dimensions, including the Euro Crisis, which is still ongoing. The crisis isn't quite over yet. This financial crisis is unique because of its global effects, and there "Global" part should definitely stay.---- Futuretrillionaire (talk) 05:51, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

One thing to note is that whilst the effects have had many ramifications in many countries, a number of large economies such as China, India and Brazil have continued to grow, albeit at varying paces - there is no financial crisis, banking crisis or government finance crisis in a number of countries. Therefore the "global" term is not all that accurate. It's kind of tighter I think to call this the International Banking & Debt Crisis, but there you go - there will always be different names for it - the common one is the one we should go with. The date range is a different issue. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 11:17, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Comment: Futuretrillionaire raises a fair point and looking at the multidimensional aspects, one can argue for a continuing financial crisis. However if we adopt that argument, the article really needs to describe all those aspects (in detail) and not just almost exclusively concentrate on the 2008 events and there causes and direct consequences, because in that case the article name is still a misnomer. On that note people here should have a look at 2008–2012 global recession as well, the naming there appears at least at first glance even much more problematic.--Kmhkmh (talk) 12:05, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose The crisis continues to unfold. It may acquire a new, generally used, name, but all central banks remain in emergency mode at this point. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I am posting a relevant chart. I believe a paper in the IMF Working Paper Series counts as a valid secondary source and it was commented on in one of The Economist's blogs. See the cited paper for details.

→Yaniv256 _contribs 19:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Were you thinking the chart suggests that the crisis spiked sharply and is then effectively over? It refers to banking collapses? The article obviously struggles a little with definitions because the "financial crisis" covers so much turf - many would argue that whilst the banking crisis is still around (recently Spanish banks for example), it has now morphed into a European sovereign debt crisis and a US debt crisis - and of course we have articles such as the ridiculously lengthily-introduced European sovereign-debt crisis. Maybe this article does need narrowing down a bit to just the initial crisis, leading on to all the other articles. On the other hand, if it's meant to be a summary article, the title probably does need to be more general. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 20:02, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I did mean to suggest that, but now I noticed that the caption clearly reads "number of systemic banking crisis starting in a given year". So, come to think of it, it might not be so relevant after all, and had I noticed that before posting I would probably not have posted it. I guess we are best to just take it into account in some general off-hand way. →Yaniv256 _contribs 20:25, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Four-way RfC summary table

It's pretty clear that "Global financial crisis of 2008" is the consensus choice. Can we make the switch now? Smallbones (talk) 13:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Only if a good reason could be found for such a change. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Fred, see above - there is no mention of anything after 2009 in the article! There are no additions, opposition, etc. to the section that said stabilization happened in 2009, and there are no reliable sources stating that there was a financial crisis after 2009. Three strikes and a consensus and the title is out!. Smallbones (talk) 19:33, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

• Support, in general, though we might want to call it "2008 global financial crisis" to remove the ugly "of 2008" or, if you guys believe it's still happening, then I'd go w/ "Global financial crisis starting 2008", as this makes it clear that only the starting date is known. --The Evil IP address (talk) 13:44, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Quoting wp:naming conventions (numbers and dates):

There are many events that repeat on a regular or semi-regular basis, such as the Summer Olympics or the U.S. presidential elections. ... While the date is up front, this gives a maybe undue focus to the year, rather than to the event - This format is however widely used, so acceptable as Misplaced Pages page name format. ... For events that recur at non-regular intervals, for instance Ecumenical councils, the articles on the individual events usually avoid a date indication, but are numbered/characterised otherwise (e.g. place of event, combined with numerical), for instance: Fourth Council of the Lateran; First Council of Lyon; Second Council of Lyon; Council of Vienne - similarly for Crusades: First Crusade, Second Crusade, etc... Note, however, that exceptions to the rule of avoiding dates are applied according to established practice, for instance: Crusade of 1101 (minor crusade, not numbered, and generally indicated by the year it occurred).

→Yaniv256 _contribs 16:58, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

• Support, The content of this article ends in 2009 because that's a logical end to the global financial and economic events that occurred during that period. After that it transitioned into a regional crisis centered on 17 countries that adopted the Euro as their common currency, while even directly abutting countries remain financially and economically stable. Even the financial and economic instability created by the so-called Arab Spring is so far limited to a couple of countries. 71.241.203.207 (talk) 23:21, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at 2007–2008 financial crisis. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

I'll be bold and request that an admin (needed because of move protection) move the page to Global financial crisis of 2008 as shown by a clear consensus in the table above, and the complete lack of any reliable sources to support the current name. Smallbones (talk) 00:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

• I would support that. I don't think "Global financial crisis of 2008" is perfect - but it's substantially better than the status quo. bobrayner (talk) 01:06, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

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