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Revision as of 17:39, 9 October 2012

Edit waring

You are edit waring which is against the rules of wikipedia, you have reverted two editors today. If you do not stop then I will report you Zrdragon12 (talk) 17:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

You are now being reported Zrdragon12 (talk) 17:53, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

You reverted me first btw, on both pages. If i'm edit warring how are you not. Also check the table and you will see that it says democide. Rummel never estimated how many people the NVA/VC killed in south Vietnam, he estimated there democide. Not the same thing. Also your message came to me after I changed the Vietnam war casualties page. The other editor reverted me first and so did you. Why don't you report him aswell then. All i did was change a word so it would be correct according to the source and i also added numerous reliable sources to the phoenix program.

You reverted User:Justin Kidding today and I reverted it back to what it was you then reverted it again,that is edit waringZrdragon12 (talk) 18:01, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

He reverted my edits first, so is he not edit warring and so did you revert my edits first.

Ah so you are editing on different IP addresses and you just admitted that.Zrdragon12 (talk) 18:07, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

My IP adress changes. Nothing i can do about it.

Your sources are the CIA,hardly scholars.Zrdragon12 (talk) 18:16, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I think William colby and the CIA are pretty good sources on a CIA program and the other one is a famous Historian who actually has a wikepedia page. Why do you keep reverting my edit on the Vietnam war casualties page. You are edit warring. Check the source the figures are clearly stated as democide. The words murder, intentionally killed and killed are all incorrect for Rummels figures. His figures do not include all collateral damage and they sometimes include people who were not actually killed or murdered liked in famine or forced relocation. The word democide is only world which is actually accurate. Plus he clearly states the figure is democide and it is already used on this page.

Pretty good sources? They lie for a living so no they are not pretty good sources at all,they are pretty bad sources.Also Rummels figures are just a theory of his and nothing more.Rummel reckons that Stalin killed 60 million when others scholars say about 20 million including famine. The word democide is not a good word to use,it sounds pretty stupid in a sentence, killed is fine.Zrdragon12 (talk) 18:39, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

It is original research to use the word killed and factually wrong. Murdered is far more accurate as well. Most sources say Vietcong infrastructure.

Murdered is a POV and not allowed. Killed is fine and describes what happened. All sections have killed in it and are neutral because of that.The program targeted the civilian infrastructure of the VietCong underground government,even congressional deabtes in the early 1970's state that.

Ogden Reid, a member of a congressional committee investigating Phoenix in 1971, "if the Union had had a Phoenix program during the Civil War, its targets would have been civilians like Jefferson Davis or the mayor of Macon, Georgia." Zrdragon12 (talk) 18:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

That does not contradict what I changed it to. Remember I kept the civilian infrastructure part and the quote. Most sources say it targeted the Vietcong infrastructure. Killed is incorrect and original research. Deliberately killed is more correct but still these figure do also include people dying from poor prison conditions etc. The source says democide, so that should be enough.

Evan J. Parker Jr. was the senior CIA officer William Colby chose as the first director of the Phoenix Program in Saigon. Edward C. Brady,Brady worked with the CIA Province Officer. He learned Vietnamese and began to socialize with them. Eventually

he was loaned to Australian CIA contractor Ted Serong, who was forming the CIA’s PRU team in Tuyen Duc Province. Suborned by the CIA.When Brady's tour at the JGS ended, the CIA station asked him to capitalize on his well-placed connections. Brady agreed and was assigned to the Phoenix Directorate as a cover for his espionage activities. "So I went over there and spent a couple hours talking to Evan Parker. He said, We're interested in targeted operations against the civilian part of the Communist party.' And I was ready for that - psychologically and emotionally. .......

Says civilian,That is the head of the Phoenix program himself in Saigon stating they were targeting the civilian part of the communist party.Zrdragon12 (talk) 18:58, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

• Side Note: Rummel never estimated that Stalin killed 60 million people.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 23:24, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
• Side Note: Yes he did.Anybody with google knows that much Zrdragon12 (talk) 01:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

What's wrong with you? You repeat false statements without any regard for the truth! Check his webite!TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 03:33, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Unlike you I stick to facts. I have seen him quoted many times as stating that 60 million dead under Stalin.12:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zrdragon12 (talk • contribs)

Where???TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 13:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

In books.Zrdragon12 (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2012 (UTC) His own tables state 55 million killed by Stalin and that is wrong. He is claiming that Stalin killed 1/3rd of the population of the USSR. That is why Rummel is considered a joke but hey you love him. Zrdragon12 (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Just to add,Rummels tables top estimate for deaths in the USSR between 1917 and 1953 is 80,000,000, that is more than half the population he believes that were killed by the leadership. Absolute rubbish.He has democide for civilians from 1929 to 1953 top estimate of nearly 92 million and that is why he is a joke.His top estimate from 1917 to 1987 is staggering 141 million,that is nearly the entire population killed by their leaders. and this is the guy YOU use as a source. Zrdragon12 (talk) 13:58, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

You have provided no source, and you obviously cannot read if you checked Rummel's site. Rummel estimates a total of 60 million deaths from the Russian civil war, Lenin, Stalin, all of their successors, and all Soviet war democide from WW2 to Afghanistan. That's less than a tenth of the total population under Soviet control. His Stalin estimate is 40 million.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 14:55, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

The source is Rummels tables and the figures that I provided come from his tables,I have them in front of me now and that is what they state.Not too sure where you are getting that the population of the Soviet Union was 400 million as it was not.The census in the 1930's puts it as about 140 million. I guess you just made it up. The Soviet census in 1989 only had 286 million on it so where you get 400 million in the Stalin era is beyond me.The Soviet Union has never ever had a population over 290 million. Of course you are trying to claim that the eastern block was part of the Soviet Union,well it was not.Soviet Census (1989) Zrdragon12 (talk) 17:13, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Let me be clearer: The total number of people who lived in the Soviet Union throughout its entire history and not at the time of any one census.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 17:20, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Was not 400 million as you claim. You were wrong. Just accept it. Zrdragon12 (talk) 17:23, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Very funny, now you have to change your argument now you have been proven wrong. One minute you are claiming it was 10% of the population under Stalin which would be 400 million which is a joke borne out by every Soviet census and not you are claiming you meant the population thru out it entire history. LMAO. You are done and dusted and proven to not know what you are talking about. Zrdragon12 (talk) 17:39, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 03:34, 9 October 2012 (UTC)