• edit
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• War in Afghanistan (2001–2021):
  • NATO forces in Afghanistan launch an investigation after a US airstrike in Nangarhar Province kills five Afghan policemen and injures another two. (ABC News Australia)

• The Dow Jones Industrial Average and S&P 500 hit record highs. (Marketwatch)

• American National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden is granted a one-year temporary political asylum in Russia and leaves Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport. (RT) (CNN)
• In talks in Manila, the Philippines and Vietnam agree to work together on a framework for resolving maritime territorial disputes in the South China Sea. (Voice of America)

• Russian police detain 1,200 illegal Vietnamese migrants in raids in Moscow. (ABC News)
• Eight people are arrested in Greece for allegedly trying to smuggle weapons into Turkey. (IANS via Vancouver Desi)
• The U.S. states of Minnesota and Rhode Island begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. (MSNBC)
• The Dhaka High Court rules the registration of Bangladesh's largest Islamic group Jamaat-e-Islami as a political party illegal making it potentially ineligible to contest elections. (Bloomberg)
• The government of Uruguay legalizes the medical usage of marijuana, restricting legal purchases to Uruguayans in that country. (New York Times)
• Former school bus driver Ariel Castro is sentenced to life plus a thousand years for kidnapping three women and holding them hostage for a decade in Cleveland, Ohio. (ABC News Australia)
• Italy's top court confirms that former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi will serve a prison sentence for a tax fraud conviction. (Al-Jazeera via Yahoo!)

• The Prime Minister of Tuvalu, Willy Telavi, is removed from office by Governor General Iakoba Italeli after accusations that he allegedly tried to replace Italeli as Governor General. Opposition leader Enele Sopoaga is appointed as the country's acting Prime Minister. (Islands Business)
• Geoff Thorn, the General Manager of Parliamentary Service in the Parliament of New Zealand, submits his resignation to the Speaker David Carter after phone and other data belonging to Fairfax New Zealand journalist Andrea Vance were released to an inquiry without her permission. (TV New Zealand)
• Robert Mugabe's ZANU-PF party claims victory in yesterday's Zimbabwean general election as the opposition Movement for Democratic Change alleges "massive fraud". (News Limited)

Edward Snowden

• Nominated by Sca (talk · give credit)

• Support - Sure, we're probably all sick of Snowden, but this basically brings a conclusion to a story that had international ramifications, at least until his asylum expires or he gets nabbed by the CIA while in Russia.--WaltCip (talk) 15:33, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment If this is posted, we should probably avoid the use of the term "whistleblower". We can use "dissident", used in the lead of the Edward Snowden article. -- tariqabjotu 16:03, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support - previous stages of this story were rejected with rationale "wait for asylum/arrest". That point is now here. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:46, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support per Thaddeus. μηδείς (talk) 17:10, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support per those above, this is a milestone in the story. Next up, what happens in 364 days? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:19, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Strong oppose - Sorry, his 15 minutes of fame was already up a month ago, Misplaced Pages is not a place to give him his own platform of fame for another 15 minutes of fame. Donnie Park (talk) 17:21, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with "fame." (I should have said "controversial" rather than "now famous" above.) Whatever anyone thinks about Snowden's actions, it's a fascinating and complex personal story dealing with issues that could have extremely important political consequences.

Further, Snowden has been associated, at least tangentially, with Wiki, and for that reason has been very conspicuous by his absence from English Wiki's "In the News." Sca (talk) 19:02, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Wikileaks has nothing to do with Misplaced Pages other than the parasitic use of a morpheme. μηδείς (talk) 19:06, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Good to know — I wondered about that. But I venture to say that because of its use of Wiki, Wikileaks probably is associated in many peoples' minds with Misplaced Pages.

PS: Learned a new word: morpheme. Sca (talk) 19:11, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, wiki- is a free morpheme at this point, since we can say there are various wikis, such as Misplaced Pages, Conservapedia, and Wikileaks. The latter two I would say are obviously glomming off the prestige of Misplaced Pages. Unfortunately for those of us who do not want to be associated with conserva- or -leaks, Wiki- and -pedia were not trademarked. μηδείς (talk) 19:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Some smart lawyer should look at the possibility of still trademarking Wiki. Sca (talk) 23:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Put him on the frontpage when this traitor is convicted, not before. Lugnuts 17:42, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Ready this is well-updated after several "wait" nominations and well supported; a few political opposes are not valid for ITN purposes. μηδείς (talk) 18:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support Undisputable coverage and "asylum" was pointed to as the postable time in previous discussions. Traitor would normally imply co-operating with or leaking something to enemies, rather than to allies and fellow citizens. 88.88.162.176 (talk) 18:25, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Posted -- tariqabjotu 18:58, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Post-posting support Provoked a strong reaction from the US this one. (And can a certain editor give it a rest with the "traitor" crap?) --Somchai Sun (talk) 19:38, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Point of order. I object to the use of "dissident". This is a violation of NPOV. The article no longer used that term in the lede as of a few moments ago when I went in add the word "fugitive", which is how the New York Times describes him. I believe the admin who posted this blub inserted his own personal editorial judgment in lieu of consensus. Can we please fix this now? Replace "dissident" with "fugitive". "Fugitive" is a very nice, neutral, factual term for a person who has been indited and is fleeing (and seeking asylum). Whether he is a whistleblower or a traitor is highly debatable and won't be settled until he faces a court of law. Jehochman 02:04, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
• Whistleblower is correct, he was travelling before he was charged, and he is revealing unconstitutional activity condemned by just about every authourty outside the Obama regime. μηδείς (talk) 02:21, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

  He's been charged with a crime. Because he has run from the law, he's a fugitive. The article explains who things he's a whistleblower and who thinks he's a criminal or traitor. There are some of each. It is definitely not for us to decide. We just report the facts in the most neutral way possible. Jehochman 02:33, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

  I agree with Jehochman that fugitive is the least objectionable term here. It's 100% accurate, since he is evading arrest by legal authorities, regardless of whether you support or oppose what he did, or whether you support or oppose what the U.S. authorities are doing in response, he is a fugitive. Whether he is a dissident or not, and whether he is a whistleblower or not, depends on which political tribe you get your talking points from. But he is wanted by legal authorities, and he is evading them. --Jayron32 02:37, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

  I've taken out the word "dissident" because it's just unnecessary and controversial. The article explains all the nuances: whether he's a dissident, whistleblower, criminal, traitor, etc. If there is a consensus to insert "fugitive" or "fugitive intelligence analyst", one of those could be added, but I don't feel comfortable doing that until there is a stronger consensus. Jehochman 02:40, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

  That's fine too. Less is more; in the sense that no word is better than the wrong word. --Jayron32 02:43, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

There was nothing npov with the word dissident, our own definition of dissident is "A dissident, broadly defined, is a person who actively challenges an established doctrine, policy, or institution". Who can really argue that Snowden is not one. I feel that Jehochmans oppose of the term is based on that it doesn't have that much negative connotations. However i think current blurb is also fine but I oppose putting fugitive in it, if dissident is npov then certainly fugitive is as well. I also object accusing Tariq of anything here. SeraV (talk) 08:10, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Unless Medeis is on the US Supreme Court, no activity Snowden has revealed has yet been adjudicated to be unconstitutional. 331dot (talk) 08:14, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Even if this stuff is not illegal in USA, which would be a shame indeed for USA, most of that activity is illegal in other countries, including mine and Germany, which still makes Snowden a whistleblower. SeraV (talk) 08:42, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

(1) Laws of other countries do not apply in the US. For instance, in Germany it is illegal to walk around in a Nazi uniform. In the US this activity is protected as free speach. (2) Whether Snowden is a whistleblower/dissident or a criminal/traitor depends on whether he chooses to stand before a court of law and justify his actions, or perhaps Congress will pass a law or the current or future President will pardon him. We, Misplaced Pages, cannot decide which term is accurate. It is entirely possible that he will eventually return the USA and be acquitted by a jury of 12 citizens. For the moment, he is a fugitive because he chose to run away rather than to justify his actions. If you look at the biography of Nathan Hale you will see a different type of behavior. (Disclosure: My personal belief is that he needs to take responsibility and face the jury. Delivering those computers to Russia was the worst possible thing he could have done and will undermine his position severely. If he's not a traitor, he should stop acting like one.) Jehochman 13:17, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

He has been granted political asylum, with your logic we could just as well call him political dissident who is persecuted by his own government, but that would be biased. It is just as biased if we use the word fugitive, exactly since it it not our place to decide which term is accurate. With the word fugitive we would be taking the side of US government. And my point was that even if US goverment doesn't see him as a whistleblower other goverments might since he exposed illegal activity towards them. SeraV (talk) 15:36, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

The mistake you are making is that you are applying your own logic or analysis. Instead, just look at the words being used by reliable news sources, and use those same words. Jehochman 15:45, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

He has been called whisteblower quite often in reliable sources, you can't claim that most or even majority use the word fugitive. But seriously current wording about this is fine. I just wanted to say that I oppose the use of fugitive. SeraV (talk) 15:53, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

I believe the admin who posted this blub inserted his own personal editorial judgment in lieu of consensus.

@Jehochman: Excuse me? I request that you strike that comment immediately. There is no basis for that accusation. I have never in my life edited the Edward Snowden article, or any articles related to him. If the first sentence had said "Edward Snowden is an American whistleblower", I wouldn't have objected to the term on the Main Page. And subsequent to my comment, no one commented on the suitability of the term "whistleblower" or objected to my comment about "dissident". The reason I mentioned dissident is because it was in the first sentence of the article, and content on the Main Page defers to article content. Why is it acceptable for you to use the same rationale to promote "fugitive" (also not from the original blurb!), but my use of the same rationale is "personal editorial judgment"?

Now that the term has been removed from the first sentence (with "fugitive" added at your hands, but never mind), I have no objection to it being removed from the Main Page and no objection to the use of the term "fugitive" as now in the article. But, I do firmly object to your baseless suggestion that I usurped consensus in favor of what I wanted, and request that you strike that comment (which was entirely irrelevant to the rest of your comment) immediately. -- tariqabjotu 03:08, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

• Post-posting support - I must say that those opposing from a personal POV with personal attacks and heated rhetoric are editors who should really get a grip. Jusdafax 03:36, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
• Post-posting support High profile case with potential important impacts in Russia-US relations. Spencer 16:29, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, since people continue to comment, post-posting oppose. I don't care about the political and emotional furor in the US. My concern is that this is nothing more than an incremental update. There's nothing here except the fact that a man who was in Russia can stay in Russia. Resolute 18:06, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment. The blurb as it is currently written suffers from goes-without-saying-everything-is-about-America-unless-otherwise-stated syndrome. Could we possibly replace "Former NSA contractor" with something line "Former US intelligence contractor"? Formerip (talk) 00:07, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

  I can make the modification, but is the NSA really not recognizable here? I don't think it's "everything is about America" syndrome, more "NSA is recognizable with the link and without further context, especially considering this story has been in the news for two months" syndrome. I'd like to think there are some intelligence organizations -- FBI, CIA, Mossad, MI-6, etc -- that could suffice without beating people over the head which country is being discussed . -- tariqabjotu 00:15, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

  I recommend dropping "American" and using "Former intelligence analyst". That's what the most reliable local media are calling him. We've discussed this at length at the article talk page. Shorter is sweeter. Jehochman 00:22, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

  Yes, being American doesn't make his activities more or less significant. And Tariq..., I'd agree that CIA, FBI, Mossad & MI-6 are well known, but NSA is no better known than ASIO. HiLo48 (talk) 00:25, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

  Certainly the vast, vast majority of British people (I can't speak to anything wider than that) will have no idea what NSA means. Formerip (talk) 00:30, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

  We provide links in blurbs for a reason. I bet a large number of people don't know the National Assembly is the lower house in the Cambodian Parliament, but they can click on a link and find out. There is always information omitted from blurbs: for a brief time yesterday, we omitted that he had any ties to the intelligence community, for example. We have to draw a balance between being informative and being brief. (In this case, we have a well-known story with the title a basic formality; the former formulation provided a link to a relevant article.) I think the alternative you suggested is fine, as it's informative (perhaps more so?) and brief, but we face this issue on all blurbs, regardless on origin, and we don't need to levy accusations of bias. -- tariqabjotu 01:47, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

  I disagree. I feel like the connection to the U.S. is very important to the story, and thus the blurb. It's an American being granted asylum in Russia, after all, and it's only five more characters. I don't understand how one can make the argument that "NSA" can't be mentioned in the blurb because people don't know that's an American intelligence organization, but then state the fact that he's American is not relevant. At least some connection to the U.S. should be made -- by saying he's from the NSA, by saying he was a contractor for U.S. intelligence, or by explicitly saying he's American. I do agree "analyst" sounds more natural than "contractor" though. -- tariqabjotu 01:32, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Silvio Berlusconi

• Updated and nominated by Alessandro57 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by ThaddeusB (talk · give credit)

• Support, convictions of former heads of government are notable, but remove "finally" from the blurb. 331dot (talk) 09:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support with alt blurb. As per 331dot. --LukeSurl 09:39, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support Ditch "finally" and you've got yourself a perfect nomination doktorb _words 09:40, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, and feel free to change the blurb (my italo-english deserves it :-))! "Finally" means "definitively", "irrevocably" because in Italy we have three degrees of judgments (trial, appeal, appeal to the supreme court): he has been condemned several times in trial and appeal, but this is his first definitive condemn, and IMHO this should be pointed out in some way. Paraphrasing Churchill, maybe this is neither his end, nor the beginning of his end, but for sure the end of his beginning. :-) Alex2006 (talk) 09:52, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support, as I believe that exhausts the legal system and he will now actually go to jail. Another blurb suggestion, which attempts a middle ground between the two above:

The Italian Supreme Court sentences former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to four years in prison for tax fraud.

Modest Genius 11:46, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support per Doktorbuk. Must lose the word finally. CaptRik (talk) 11:59, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Done. I hope that English speaking readers understand that no appeal is possible. Alex2006 (talk) 12:04, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - I think for the news blurb the clarity is not needed and possibly even lost on readers from some countries. The article looks like it covers it adequately. CaptRik (talk) 14:29, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose unless maybe we have a picture of him hanging in effigy? He was just posted a few weeks back. μηδείς (talk) 13:24, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Not Updated curious who marked this updated with one sentence. μηδείς (talk) 18:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Updated and marked ready - article is now updated. I adjusted the blurbs to make it clear that this is a denied (final) appeal, not a fresh conviction. --ThaddeusB (talk) 05:12, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
• Posted -- tariqabjotu 06:03, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
• Post posting Support - Berlusconi's final appeal being denied is a big deal, so even though there was a recent post about his legal issues, this is again an ITN-worthy blurb in my view. Jusdafax 06:09, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Tuvalu Prime Minister

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit)

• 'Oppose He's only the acting Prime Minister. Maybe something more permament would cut it. Lugnuts 17:26, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• 'Oppose acting PM, support if permanently installed. Gamaliel (talk) 18:14, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - only acting PM.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose if only an acting PM; would support if this person is made the actual PM. 331dot (talk) 20:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support He is the actual Prime Minister, not just an acting one. What they mean is that he is acting subject to the caretaker convention until an election is held. It is very unusual for a PM to be dismissed by a Governor-General (or monarch) in a Westminster system - it hasn't occurred in decades. Neljack (talk) 01:14, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose this jurisdiction has a population of less than 12,000. μηδείς (talk) 20:41, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Objection - according to the article I read in the Sydney Morning Herald, the (?) former PM notified the Queen that he was dismissing the Governor-General so it is not clear whether the PM or GG has been dismissed and a constitutional crisis brewing. To me, that makes the story more noteworthy but also presently unclear whether a new PM will be needed. EdChem (talk) 13:41, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Lavasoa dwarf lemur

• Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Maky (talk · give credit)

• Are these things really in the news? Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't care less every time a new species of mole rat is discovered wherever. --Bongwarrior (talk) 03:08, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• I agree with Bongwarrior, it is always interesting and highly encyclopedic that a new animal species is discovered wherever. But main news? Unlike the ant story below in which its getting massive headlines for some reason (front page in Yahoo, CNN, etc...), I think this, and other similar articles should be discussed in DYK instead. Secret 04:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• I'm not vaguely familiar with zoology but according to a few studies only a minute number of mammals (estimates place it between a dozen and 3% of all known and unknown species) remain undiscovered, so perhaps discoveries as such are more notable than we thought even though there seems to be a spike in discoveries. YuMaNuMa 05:42, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Strong support yeah, I understand the skepticism about what seems like literally every-day report of a new species, however, if there is one thing in biology that I genuinely believe should be ITNR, is a new species of primates is discovered. Nergaal (talk) 06:21, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Cheirogaleus lavasoensis would need to be created. --LukeSurl 07:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support if someone creates the article. Per Nergaal, a new species of primate is fairly significant. But, seriously guys 'n' gals, we need to establish that there is a high bar for new species stories. Formerip (talk) 09:39, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose, lemurs are speciose. According to Misplaced Pages's own article, List of lemur species, "From 2000 through 2008, 39 new species were described and nine other taxa resurrected" and it is continuing; Mar 2012, two discovered. Abductive (reasoning) 15:56, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

OK, that's helpful. Make mine a very weak support. Formerip (talk) 17:09, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support Dwarf lemurs are sublime. The discovery of 39 species is irrelevant unless we've posted them all. Most will be splits from existing species anyway, not real discoveries. μηδείς (talk) 17:11, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support If we refuse to post new species, mammals especially ITN will only have post about deaths, politics and sports. As an encyclopedia we really should look bit further than that. SeraV (talk) 17:51, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support if there's an article, per Formerip. Gamaliel (talk) 18:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support in order "to point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them." A new mammal is "encyclopedic news". Even without any traditional news coverage discoveries like this meet our criteria when the relevant article is created/updated. 85.167.110.98 (talk) 18:20, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose As some of you know, I write extensively about lemurs on Misplaced Pages, and though I will probably end up writing this article as well, I have to agree with some of the early comments. Many of the small, nocturnal lemurs are being split into new species, and some years as many as 10 or more may be "discovered"... and it's done almost entirely based on DNA. DYK-worthy, yes. ITN-worthy... I'm not so sure. Personally, I only nominate new primate fossil discoveries and maybe a truly surprising lemur species discovery. Extinctions are another one I would definitely nominate. But not this. – Maky 03:11, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Let me clarify that I'm primarily concerned that frequent new lemur species being listed on ITN may make it more difficult for genuinely important discoveries to get mentioned. If, for example, 10 mouse and/or dwarf lemur species are described this year (and there have already been 3, including this one), will anyone support a related but more significant discovery if I bring it to ITN? At this point, I am weakly opposing because, yes, I would like to see lemur discoveries mentioned on ITN. However, professionally, I favor reserving ITN for more significant discoveries. – Maky 03:26, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I am curious now, what do you think is the biggest discovery when it comes to lemurs in the past 5 years? Nergaal (talk) 03:40, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Although it was in 2006 (7 years ago), I think the explosive jump in sportive lemurs was pretty big, especially since hardly anyone studies them. Otherwise I think some of the fossil discoveries in Africa regarding Algeripithecus and others were quite significant since it helped begin to establish the evolutionary history of lemurs (beyond speculation). The same can be said of some of the cognitive studies that are slowly debunking long-held views about simian cognitive superiority and cognitive evolution. Also, the 2010 study by Ali & Huber that helped clinch some evidence for oceanic dispersal for the colonization of Madagascar was also very big. However, these latter cases don't get as much press. But then again, our news media is actually for our entertainment, not our enlightenment. People are more entertained by new, cute species than complex cognitive studies or primate fossils that aren't human ancestors. I guess it then becomes a question of what ITN is. Are you like the news media and primarily serve an entertainment role, or do you care about educating the public? I'm not trying to be combative—I'm asking a serious question that I've never seen addressed on ITN before. – Maky 03:58, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

In the "news" is a misnomer. The requirement is that the article is sufficiently updated to reflect sufficiently important recent events. 85.167.110.98 (talk) 06:35, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

So in that case, if a pivotal research article in the study of lemurs (or primate evolution) is published but doesn't get mentioned on any major news sites, then can I still nominate a sufficiently updated article reflecting these important recent events and expect support? Or does it have to directly involve something cute and fluffy and/or relate to the popular topic of conservation (in which case it might get some press)? I'm just playing devil's advocate. Please understand that I if this nomination passes, then I will happily bring every new lemur species that gets announced to ITNC, even if it's 10 in one month, and I will not be happy if all the reasoning thrown around here in support gets tossed out the window. I want people to think about this fairly and proactively. Again, I'd be very happy to see this one on ITN rather than DYK. I just want this nomination and all future nominations judged evenly, and I don't want more important nominations knocked because less significant articles like this got approved too often. – Maky 07:27, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support - new living mammals are sufficiently rare and sufficiently important to post. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:14, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Two species of mouse lemur were described earlier this year, and were not considered for ITN. Three new species of slow loris were also discovered this year (and got a lot more press coverage), and they only made DYK. The same goes for a sportive lemur in 2011, another mouse lemur 2012, and two more mouse lemurs in 2009. Important, yes. Is it a huge event? No. And so far, no major news organization has covered it, as far as I can tell. – Maky 05:17, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I think we should cover all of them. They may not be "news", but they are "encyclopedic articles updated to reflect recent events". I would consider this a near-perfect case of "subjects might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them." 85.167.110.98 (talk) 06:30, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Btw, I'm reading the research article now, and the authors note that 3 other new species were also discovered, though not officially named. Expect more in the future. – Maky 06:37, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I looked it up - about 25 species of mammal have been described each of the last few years (sometimes more than 1 at once, which would mean even if we covered all it would be less than 25 postings). That quite a bit more than I expected, as I was relying on old information of ~2/year before genetic testing caused the recent increase. Even so, I personally would support posting most or all of the new mammals (bats and rodentia make up the majority of the new species, so if we were to exclude some those would be good choices). Certainly, we have room for 2 primates (lemurs)/year on average if the trend holds - and it probably won't since at some point the genetic testing possibilities will be exhausted. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:32, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the data for small, nocturnal lemurs, lorises, and galagos is suggesting that the new species descriptions are only just beginning. The inaccessibility of their deep, dark, wet forests is the only thing holding back the research. Well... that and a relative lack of academic interest in lorises and galagos. But in truth, we are only entering a new stage in taxonomic expansion, similar to what was seen during the 1700s and 1800s. Worse, there will probably be just as much of a mess to clean up afterwards. (In other words, some of these species will be erased and made taxonomic synonyms.) Again, I'm fine with it as long as everyone understands what kind of precedent we're setting. I will be citing this nomination in the future—that's why I'm playing devil's advocate so fervently. – Maky 16:59, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

In my opinion it would be remiss of an encyclopedia with a "news" section to not use it for the discovery of new species of primates. Personally I would extend this beyond primates as well. A higher turnover rate is desirable, and an increase in "deathless" stories would be even better. 88.88.162.176 (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Well put. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks 88.88.162.176 (talk) 18:29, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Posted -- tariqabjotu 18:58, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

July 31

Portal:Current events/2013 July 31

July 31, 2013 (2013-07-31) (Wednesday) edit history watch Disasters and accidents At least ten people die as a result of a heatwave in the Shanghai which has recorded its highest temperatures on record, surpassing 40 °C (104 °F). (AFP via France 24) Forty people are missing and presumed drowned after a bus plunges into a canal near Sirhind-Fategarh, Punjab, India. (The Hindu Times) At least seven people have been killed and another 40 hospitalised from drinking illegal alcohol in the Cuban capital Havana. (BBC) Law and crime The Independent Commission Against Corruption in the Australian state of New South Wales finds that former Ministers Ian Macdonald and Eddie Obeid acted corruptly and recommends that charges be laid. (The Australian) Politics and elections India's ruling coalition endorses the creation of a new state of Telangana to be carved out of Andhra Pradesh in southern India. (AP via WMDT) Voters in Zimbabwe go to the polls for a general election. (Sun Daily) Salem Labyedh resigns as Tunisia's Education Minister following last week's assassination of Mohamed Brahmi. (BBC) New ant species No consensus to post. Spencer 16:25, 3 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Ants (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Scientists discover thirty-three new ant species in Central America and the Caribbean. (Post) News source(s): NBC News Credits: Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit) Article needs updatingNominator's comments: Thirty-three new ant species were found. Andise1 (talk) 21:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support if the article is updated. Gamaliel (talk) 01:39, 1 August 2013 (UTC) What's notable about this? Nergaal (talk) 06:17, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Ant seems too non-specific an article. Considering there are 12,500 classified species of ant it would be misplaced to include in that article a substantial update about the discovery of 33. --LukeSurl 07:31, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Support-Pending compliance with LukeSurl's suggestion. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 15:39, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose, According to this NPR article on this non-event, "He's just published two papers describing 33 new species of ants, bringing his personal "new species" total to 131. Longino says that's actually average among entomologists. "I do OK," he says, noting that some scientists have discovered thousands". The nominator needs to stop being gulled by press releases. Abductive (reasoning) 16:02, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose based on comments by LukeSurl and Abductive. Will support if it is linked to a reasonable update in some subarticle. Gamaliel (talk) 18:18, 1 August 2013 (UTC) weak Oppose - for now per lukesurl. --BabbaQ (talk) 19:21, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose - new insects are extremely common (some estimate 90% of living species are not named yet). 33 at once is proabbly rare, but an appropriate update on the 33 as a group seems unlikely. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:16, 2 August 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. July 30 Portal:Current events/2013 July 30 July 30, 2013 (2013-07-30) (Tuesday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Nigerian Sharia conflict: 28 people are killed in a series of explosions targeting bars in the northern Nigerian city of Kano. (BBC) Syrian civil war: 17 people are killed and 26 wounded in a mortar attack in the government-held district of Homs and the town of Dablan (ABC) (The Times of Israel) A car bomb kills Syrian Kurdish politician Isa Huso outside his home near the Syrian-Turkish border. (Reiters) 134 people are reported to have been killed in a new wave of violence between two rival tribes in Sudan's Darfur region. (Voice of America) Arts and culture Vietnam’s Minister of Justice, Hà Hùng Cường, becomes the second government minister after the Health Minister to back plans to legalize same-sex marriage in Vietnam when he submits a draft of an amended Law on Marriage and Family to the government. (Gaystarnews) Business and economy Fiat wins at least a partial victory in Delaware Chancery Court, but the judge declines its invitation to order a United Autoworkers affiliated trust to sell its Chrysler shares to the Italian company. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents At least nine children are killed and another 20 injured after their school bus collides with a truck in the Indian city of Hanumangarh in Rajasthan state. (AP via ABC News America) A mass funeral is held near the southern Italian town of Pozzuoli for the 38 victims of Sunday's bus crash. (BBC News) (CNN) Eight people are injured in a gas explosion in the US state of Florida. (BBC) The driver of a train that derailed in Spain last week, killing 79 people, is reported to have been on the phone with railway staff when the train crashed, possibly distracting him shortly before the crash, experts say. (CNN) Honduras declares a state of emergency after an outbreak of dengue fever kills 16 people and sickens 12,000. (AP via CTV News) International relations US Secretary of State John Kerry announces that Israeli and Palestinian officials have agreed to resume negotiations for a peace agreement. (The Jerusalem Post) (CNN) (The Telegraph) EU Foreign Affairs head Catherine Ashton meets with deposed Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi at an undisclosed location and confirms he is in good health, while Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood supporters call for continued demonstrations against the new regime. (The Times of Israel) (The Telegraph) (UPI) Law and crime In United States v. Bradley Manning, Bradley Manning is acquitted of aiding the enemy by giving classified United States Army information to WikiLeaks. Manning is found guilty of five espionage charges and five theft charges. (CNN)(The Guardian) JPMorgan Chase settles with the US Federal Energy Regulatory Commission for $410M due to alleged manipulation of energy markets in California and the Midwest. (Bloomberg) The United States Department of the Treasury issues sanctions to three Mexican nationals linked to the Sinaloa Cartel for laundering money for the drug lords Ismael Zambada García and Joaquín Guzmán Loera. The Kingpin Act sanctions prohibit Americans to do any kind of business with them. (The Wall Street Journal) Raif Badawi, the editor of a website that discussed the role of religion in Saudi Arabia, is sentenced to seven years in prison and 600 lashes for founding an Internet forum that "violates Islamic values and propagates liberal thought." (Reuters via New York Daily News) Politics and elections Mamnoon Hussain is elected as the 12th President of Pakistan. (Geo) RD: Eileen Brennan Article: Eileen Brennan (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): NYT, The Independent, Xinhua global edition Credits: Nominated by Medeis (talk · give credit) Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Iconic, decorated supporting actress with huge six-decade stage, film, and TV opus and own lead cut short by car accident, globally covered and recognized for her work by artists from Peter Bogdonavich to Michael McKean μηδείς (talk) 21:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support. Long career with much recognition would suggest that she is notable in her field. 331dot (talk) 21:17, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose The question is not whether she was notable in her field; she undoubtedly was (she wouldn't qualify for an article otherwise). The question is whether she was widely recognised as a very important figure in her field. Looking at the news articles on her death and her WP article, I don't see any reason to think that she was. She didn't win any major awards. The articles on her death don't describe any great importance or impact that she had. They basically describe her as a moderately well-known actor with a long career. While praising her ability, they don't describe her as being very important or indicate any particular impact that she had. I fear that we are too ready to post actors who may be quite well-known (at least in their home country), but don't meet the death criteria. She may have been an important figure in the field of cinema, but does she really qualify as a very important one? Neljack (talk) 21:30, 31 July 2013 (UTC) As far as I am aware, Glenn Close is the only other actress to have won an Obie, a Golden Globe and an Emmy. Brennan wasn't a shockingly beautiful lead, which seems to be the criterion you are suggesting for winning actresses. But she had roles created for her (Helly Dolly) Private Benjamin (tv), and was specifically sought out for roles such as Last Picture Show up to Cheeper by the Dozen. That seems to meet RD requirements. μηδείς (talk) 21:42, 31 July 2013 (UTC) (to Netjack) A Golden Globe and an Emmy are not "major" awards? Further, the great majority of actors go their entire careers without even being nominated for such awards. 331dot (talk) 22:44, 31 July 2013 (UTC) I see the Golden Globe is for Best Actress, not Best Supporting Actress (as I had thought), so I guess that qualifies as a major award. But I stand by my point that there is no evidence that she was widely regarded as a very important figure in her field. The fact that the great majority of actors never get nominated for such awards is irrelevant: the great majority of actors don't qualify for Recent Deaths either. Finally, since I have no idea what she looked like, I certainly didn't take her appearance into account (and it would be utterly inappropriate to do so). Neljack (talk) 23:01, 31 July 2013 (UTC) That's exactly the point--since an editor has no idea what a celebrated vintage actress looks like she couldn't possibly deserve recognition. We need a little more scope here than just voting for our own recent and local interests. μηδείς (talk) 23:16, 31 July 2013 (UTC) I think you misunderstand me. I didn't dismiss her because I hadn't heard of her - I'm perfectly aware that I am not very knowledgeable about TV and cinema, so I don't assume that actors I haven't heard of don't qualify. I looked at the article and news pieces and then made a decision. Neljack (talk) 23:33, 31 July 2013 (UTC) For better or worse, being pretty is part of what makes actresses successful, and it's embedded in our criteria. If we are going by awards, it's 23 years, for example, since the Best Actress Oscar was won by someone who didn't have a tendency to make people dribble. Unfortunately, having been sought out for roles doesn't hit the right buttons. Picket Hollywood, by all means. Formerip (talk) 23:52, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose per Netjack.--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose per Netjack. Gamaliel (talk) 01:40, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose what Neljack said, on the other hand she is much better candidate than that glee bloke was. SeraV (talk) 17:47, 1 August 2013 (UTC) But not, as we hear above, as pretty or as non-American. μηδείς (talk) 01:03, 2 August 2013 (UTC) Support in spirit an an iconic, recognizable, decorated actress with a very long career; though I note that this will likely age out before it gets enough support for RD. Still, I think she merits inclusion. --Jayron32 02:11, 3 August 2013 (UTC) Thomas Quick acquitted of serial murders Article: Thomas Quick (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Thomas Quick is officially acquitted of the last of his 8 former murder convictions in a lengthy appeals process after he recanted his earlier confessions. (Post) News source(s): ,, Credits: Nominated by BabbaQ (talk · give credit) Article needs updating --BabbaQ (talk) 12:56, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Comment - article could use some work in addition to updating. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:04, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose. Doesn't seem significant enough. Gamaliel (talk) 01:41, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Not American or British enough is what you really are saying. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:41, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Yeah, maybe if this guy was from some country I've heard of like France or Europe or The Iraq I would vote support. Gamaliel (talk) 18:23, 1 August 2013 (UTC) You just made your !vote nul and void as natonality is not a reason to either oppose or support.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:19, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Yeah, must be a slow news day in the important countries. But you must have heard of it, it's the home of that famous tennis star?! Martinevans123 (talk) 22:07, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Oh, that place! My favorite cooking show host is from there. Gamaliel (talk) 03:06, 2 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose per BabbaQ, not American or British enough. μηδείς (talk) 13:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC) For those not editing, there is a hidden comment in the above saying it's not notable since it's an aquittal. Medeis' form of humour, I guess.Fgf10 (talk) 15:07, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Ofocurse an acquittal is notable dear Medeis. Something is not however not notable because of its origin country.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:03, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Not worth updating either, apparently. μηδείς (talk) 01:08, 2 August 2013 (UTC) Support per the Guardian. Response to the hidden comment above: It is a notable acquittal; acquittals are not inherently unnotable. International implications as the murders were not limited to Sweden. 85.167.110.98 (talk) 13:52, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Support. Major crime story, regardless of country of origin. Fgf10 (talk) 15:07, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Support I argue that this is much more notable than his conviction ever was, since this means there is obviously something wrong with swedish justice system. SeraV (talk) 17:46, 1 August 2013 (UTC) For sure. If they had executed this guy as justice demands, the whole issue of appeals would never have come up. Formerip (talk) 18:02, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Yeah my point was, that he was sentenced without any actual proof expect for his confessions. You think justice have worked just fine if someone is found not guilty after 20 years in jail/psychiatric confinement? SeraV (talk) 18:21, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Perhaps you mean "there was obviously something wrong with swedish justice system"? Evidently it is currently working fine, by admitting the grave errors in these cases. 85.167.110.98 (talk) 18:43, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Alright, fair enough. SeraV (talk) 18:52, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Given the circumstances, I don't see anything here that couldn't have happened anywhere in the world (except, maybe, the opportunity of re-trying the cases). Formerip (talk) 21:52, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Support as nominator. even though it is not needed. In my opinion this is a case that is exactly right for mention at ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:14, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose, his exoneration has actually been occurring piecemeal over the last several months. Abductive (reasoning) 19:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Actually news about these sorts of things should not be mentioned at ITN until completely delt with. Like now, that is why it should be mentioned now and not several months ago now that it is done and complete and Quick is kind of historic.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:47, 1 August 2013 (UTC) I'd like there to be secondary sources on this guy. Right now it's all newspapers (primary sources). Is there a documentary or book on his case? Abductive (reasoning) 21:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC) If you read the article and look at the image you will get the answer :)--BabbaQ (talk) 22:38, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Newspapers are secondary sources and are absolutely fine, with all the normal caveats. Although there isn't much sourcing in our article altogether, and parts of it tell a slightly different story to what is in the Guardian article. Formerip (talk) 21:52, 1 August 2013 (UTC) You say that newspapers are absolutely fine, but then say that there are discrepancies between the sources in the article. Abductive (reasoning) 19:39, 2 August 2013 (UTC) There is book, Thomas Quick: The Making of a Serial Killer, which is pointed out and linked in that guardian article about him. SeraV (talk) 21:33, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Guess they'll all have to be pulped now. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:09, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Support Notable enough, regardless of location. How many people convicted as serial killers go on to be acquitted? Paul MacDermott (talk) 23:27, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Comment. Is anyone planning on updating the article? Formerip (talk) 01:07, 2 August 2013 (UTC) Hanumangarh bus crash No consensus to post. Spencer 18:57, 1 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Hanumangarh (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Eleven school children died in Hanumangarh when their school bus crashed into a truck. (Post) News source(s): The Hindu Indian Express The Nation La Prensa Washington Post Credits: Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit) Article needs updatingNominator's comments: Even though bus crashes are kinda common, bus crashes with multiple children killed are more tragic and notable. Andise1 (talk) 21:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC) WP does not post thins because they are tragic. If its notable, then yes that's for ITNC to decide. As such this is not in the news or notable (what with Telangana taking the headlines)Lihaas (talk) 21:29, 30 July 2013 (UTC) This IS in the news. No one said both this event and Telanaga can not be posted. Andise1 (talk), —Preceding undated comment added 21:43, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Its not the news. Im watching it as I write. NDTV, CNN-IBN, TIMES NOW...I didn't even hear of this till I came to ITNC and ive been watching tv for hours.oh! and people said the u.s. media was bad...Lihaas (talk) 21:59, 30 July 2013 (UTC) All due respect to the dead children, but this is not wikicrashia, and these nominations are getting to the point we need a ban on the topic of all traffic accidents. In The News is the name of the section, not the sole criterion for things being posted. μηδείς (talk) 02:43, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose. Not significant enough an event to be posted. 331dot (talk) 02:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC) I oppose a formal "moratorium" on good faith suggestions- discussion is perfectly capable of keeping these from being posted, as it is here. 331dot (talk) 12:34, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose. I think a moratorium on crashes might be in order... doktorb words 10:57, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose. Sorry, that's not even worth having an article on, let alone an ITN story. Modest Genius 12:09, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Moratorium. We need to end our obsession with crashes, even if (or perhaps especially when) children are involved.--WaltCip (talk) 13:35, 31 July 2013 (UTC) How is the lack of a moratorium hurting us here? This item will not get posted; further such similar suggestions are likely to end up the same way. 331dot (talk) 14:27, 31 July 2013 (UTC) It encourages people to create articles on non-notable traffic accidents to try for the ITN/C, which is against NOTNEWS and NEVENT. --MASEM (t) 15:06, 31 July 2013 (UTC) If that's the case, then 1)those grounds can be cited in any ITN discussion and said discussion can be closed; and 2) it should be dealt with at the article creation level. We don't need a formal policy prohibiting any category of suggestions. That's a very slippery slope to go down. 331dot (talk) 15:14, 31 July 2013 (UTC) I agree with 331dot. The idea of banning certain kinds of nominations is highly unproductive. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:05, 31 July 2013 (UTC) I agree also.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:59, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Indeed. No need for any kind of blanket ban. Modest Genius 18:37, 31 July 2013 (UTC) I afgree with Masem here. Ive been advocating too. Friviolous articles with no encyclopaedic value other than news stories get added here. We need to review this as ITN is hurting WPp's encyclopaedic outlookLihaas (talk) 18:57, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Again, if something is "frivolous with no encyclopedic value", it it easy to state that on any such nomination and have the discussion closed(should enough people agree). We don't need a policy to do that. 331dot (talk) 21:05, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose and support a crash moratorium. Gamaliel (talk) 01:42, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Memo to User:Gamaliel, User:Lihaas, User talk:331dot, User Talk:Masem, User_talk:Modest Genius, User talk:WaltCip and others - please see doktorb words 05:40, 1 August 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Telangana Article: Telangana movement#‎Congress Working Committee Resolution on bifurcation (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ After years of lobbying, the ruling Congress Working Committee approves the re-creation of Telangana. (Post) News source(s): WSJ India Today Credits: Nominated by ThaddeusB (talk · give credit) Updated by Lihaas (talk · give credit) and Vamsisv (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: Its not too often the world's most populous English-speaking country approves a new top-level political division. The state formation is the culmination of a decade of protest. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:20, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Damn you, bmy nomination ;) Anyhoo, the reason I did not nominate this was the government has not approved the creation of Telangana. The Congress Working Committee approved it (and all sources are noting its partisan politics for the election). There is a lot of process left to creating Telangana. Remember in 2009 the INC-led government approved it and backtracked 14 days later after protests. That's a sign enough to wait. I've added all this to the aforementioned page at the new link I added to the blurb. I also added to Indian general election, 2014#Issues CNN-IBN now also saying the bill won't be tabled in the monsoon session of parliament, so that means even the proposal for bill , let alone debate (which is more open), is months away.Lihaas (talk) 20:25, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Question. This is obviously massive news, but I'm unsure as to the timing. Do we post now? When the state is formally created? Both times? My question is therefore whether we have posted anything relating to Scottish independence as of yet? I know this is not a direct comparison, but the answer to that question would affect my opinion, and probably other people's too. —WFC— FL wishlist 21:14, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Well nothing had happened yet. Only a ruling party committee had indicated for partisan decisions to create this state (and the reactions indicate this from opposing parties, as well as the media). They have indicated a willingness to propose this to the cabinet/parliament who THEN decide after non-partisan deliberations which is several months away. As said 4 years ago the same thing happened and was rescinded. The attached WSJ links indicates this saying "Ruling party..." Secondly, no we did not post the decision for the Alba referendum.Lihaas (talk) 21:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Thanks for that response Lihaas. The Scotland comparison is certainly a factor, but not the only one. There's no doubt that the creation of the new state would be ITN, but even kick-starting the process is a huge political shake-up (in the same way that discovering that the UK might not exist in 2015 was pretty damn big). What I'm trying to decide is whether "being huge" qualifies it for ITN, regardless of what has actually happened. It's a toss-up. —WFC— FL wishlist 21:33, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose When it is actually approved yes, but not until then. Neljack (talk) 21:49, 30 July 2013 (UTC) comment reworded blurb to indicate it is not Iindia that made the approvalLihaas (talk) 22:12, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Wait until the state/territory actually becomes a state. Nergaal (talk) 22:29, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Wait until final approval of this proposal, which looks like it will be next year. 331dot (talk) 02:34, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Wait until the new state is actually created. -Zanhe (talk) 09:42, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Comment: the blurb needs to explain what on Earth Telangana is. 'a new state of India' or similar would help. Modest Genius 12:12, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Having read a bit more, we should wait until this is formally and finally approved (and possibly until it actually happens). Modest Genius 12:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose. Big news, but this particular step isn't yet. Gamaliel (talk) 01:42, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Bradley Manning verdict Articles: United States v. Bradley Manning (talk · history · tag) and Bradley Manning (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Bradley Manning is acquitted of aiding the enemy but convicted of other charges (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ ...for giving classified documents to WikiLeaks News source(s): Credits: Nominated by Abductive (talk · give credit) Article needs updatingNominator's comments: I assume people will be interested in this. --Abductive (reasoning) 17:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC) oppose the more notable part would have been his treason charges. This is more straightforward. Perhaps wait to see his punishment.Lihaas (talk) 18:28, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support - The verdict, including acquittal on "aiding the enemy" (which is believe was the treason charge) is a significant development in a long-simmering news story. When the sentence is announced, the ITN blurb can be updated. I prefer a blurb that clarifies what he did, like: Bradley Manning is acquitted of aiding the enemy but convicted of other charges related to giving classified documents to WikiLeaks --Orlady (talk) 19:25, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose No traitors on the frontpage, please. Lugnuts 19:32, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Acquitted. Your emotional response can be taken as a reason to post. Abductive (reasoning) 19:36, 30 July 2013 (UTC) No, it cant be taken as a support. Using that logic the IP below "there shouldn't be any debate, it's big news" should be taken as an oppose. Really both should be null and void then , if you wish. Still leaning towards consensus. Just needs an updateLihaas (talk) 20:19, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support the story – this is widely accepted by those on both sides as being one of the biggest intelligence leaks in history. I think leading with acquitted and bold linking it might come across as a bit one-sided though. We need to incorporate both the conviction and the aquittal, so I would suggest leading with one, and then bold-linking the second. Admittedly not the way we normally do things (we normally bold link at the first opportunity), but in this instance I think trying to maintain NPOV trumps convention. —WFC— FL wishlist 19:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Alternatively, we could go with Bradley Manning is acquitted of aiding the enemy but convicted of other charges. —WFC— FL wishlist 19:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support - there shouldn't be any debate, it's big news 24.136.136.91 (talk) 19:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support I hope any votes based on whether the user approves or disapproves of Manning will be disregarded. Regardless of what one thinks of his actions, this has been a big story and the significance of the leaks can hardly be doubted. I suggest that we add something like "by a US court-martial", as we usually indicate the court or at the least the country when posting about court cases. Neljack (talk) 21:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support, very significant. For months the verdict has been subject for discussions and predictions. It has also influential consequences that may also affect Julian Assange. In short not an ordinary eventEgeymi (talk) 22:40, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support, but think we should post after the sentencing. Formerip (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support but yes wait for sentencing. SeraV (talk) 23:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Wait for the sentencing and the blurb should be along the lines of "Bradley Manning is sentenced to xyz after being convicted for leaking US govenment documents to Wikileaks". LGA talk 23:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose found guilty of theft is not exactly newsworthy. Only partisans care here, and we don't do partisan, do we? μηδείς (talk) 00:00, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Personally what is newsworthy here is how USA and Obama administration treats their whistleblowers, Manning is not an isolated case. SeraV (talk) 05:53, 31 July 2013 (UTC) This is slightly different to putting a bag of sweets in your coat pocket Medeis. —WFC— FL wishlist 23:42, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support. Verdict in a notable case followed worldwide(due to the Wikileaks association). Not wanting "traitors" on ITN is an invalid reason to oppose; we don't base what is posted on judgments about what he is(some would disagree); we merely post what factually happened to him. I believe he was never actually charged with "treason", which has a specific meaning per the US Constitution. 331dot (talk) 02:39, 31 July 2013 (UTC) He's not a traitor, he's a thief. I don't think we normally post thieves, do we? μηδείς (talk) 02:46, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Perhaps we don't normally post thieves, but I think it depends on what is stolen. Would we post a hypothetical theft of the Mona Lisa? Probably. Would we post the theft of a few pieces of art from my local museum not created by anyone with worldwide fame? Probably not. In this case, he stole hundreds of thousands of documents with as yet undetermined consequences and damage to a large nation. 331dot (talk) 02:51, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Or maybe he saved this nation... Abductive (reasoning) 05:02, 31 July 2013 (UTC) ....which is equally as invalid an argument as saying he is a traitor as that is a political view. It is a fact he was convicted of stealing and releasing the information, thus he is a thief, regardless of how one views his actions. 331dot (talk) 11:11, 31 July 2013 (UTC) He wasn't charged with theft and his crimes don't meet the normal definition of the theft (no intention to permanently deprive). Just sayin'. Formerip (talk) 10:12, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Comment - update is currently insufficient. --ThaddeusB (talk) 02:49, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support - Editors' personal political views should carry zero weight. This is a huge story of worldwide interest and certainly worthy of an ITN blurb. Jusdafax 05:35, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support - the trial has been intensely followed by media worldwide. The acquittal of the main charge is highly significant and makes front page news everywhere. -Zanhe (talk) 09:39, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support Significant and notable, reported around the world and has continued importance in a number of fields. doktorb words 11:00, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support - when/if he gets a prison sentence.--BabbaQ (talk) 11:02, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support, and I don't mind if we post now or when sentenced (just not both). The blurb should definitely mention the Wikileaks connection, as not every reader will recognise his name. Modest Genius 12:17, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support when sentenced ---- Patar knight - /contributions 18:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support. Huge story with world implications. Gamaliel (talk) 01:43, 1 August 2013 (UTC) This article needs more information on the verdict before it will be suitable for posting. --Orlady (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2013 (UTC) This will probably need to be posted after sentencing. At the moment it is only possible to expand upon the verdict using one side of the story. The judge's detailed written rationale for the convicions and sentence, coupled with the government's response and the resultant debate, will enable us to present a more balanced view. At the moment, almost anything that is added to what is currently there is being removed on POV grounds. —WFC— FL wishlist 23:18, 1 August 2013 (UTC) New Pakistan president Article: Pakistani presidential election, 2013 (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Mamnoon Hussain is elected as the new President of Pakistan (Post) News source(s): Tribune Credits: Nominated by Gfosankar (talk · give credit) Updated by Faizan (talk · give credit) Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.Nominator's comments: Wait till official announcement --Gfosankar (talk) 11:57, 30 July 2013 (UTC) A change in head of state is ITNR. 331dot (talk) 12:15, 30 July 2013 (UTC) comment the article is sort of cites with various tags, I have thus added the orange tag on top to answer these. (and the missing bits are important section to the whole process)Lihaas (talk) 18:28, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Comment: I removed the last remaining orange-level tag as I think it's good enough. ITNR so no need to support. Can someone take a look, decide if they agree with me, and mark if so? Modest Genius 12:21, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Referencing is mediocre at best (see multiple ). Update is woefully insufficient - I would expect 2-3 paragraphs on the results + reactions\implications, not one sentence and a chart. --ThaddeusB-public (talk) 16:08, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support and Updating It is an important candidate for ITN, I would like to see the article expanded further. I would be glad to help. Faizan 23:40, 31 July 2013 (UTC)  Article Updated The article has been updated, expanded, and fixed. Minor copy-edits have also been made, and the references have been fixed too. The article should be posted there at ITN. Nominated by Gfosankar, updated by Faizan 9:29 am, Today (UTC+5) Posted as the main concerns of sourcing is taken care of and it is a ITNR but please add a paragraph or two about any reactions or implications. Secret 04:38, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Ok sure, I was the updater, and I have not got credit yet. Secret! I mistakenly undid my own edit here, causing the confusion. Can it be fixed? Faizan 06:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Secret, the section about "Implications" has been added with a para. But as they were just the presidential elections and not the parliamentry, they did not get any significant reaction or an "aftermath". Faizan 13:54, 1 August 2013 (UTC) July 29 Portal:Current events/2013 July 29 July 29, 2013 (2013-07-29) (Monday) edit history watch Armed conflict and attacks Iraqi insurgency (2011–13): A wave of twelve car bombs targeting Shiite communities in Iraq kills at least 44 people. (Reuters) War in North-West Pakistan: The Pakistani Taliban attacks a prison in the Pakistani city of Dera Ismail Khan with more than 300 prisoners freed. (Times of India) Disasters and accidents 2013 Pacific hurricane season: Tropical Storm Flossie is predicted to make a rare landfall in the US island state of Hawaii with warnings of heavy rain with the potential for flooding and landslides. (AP) A building explosion and collapse in Philadelphia causes injuries to at least eight people. (CNN) (MyFoxPhilly) Two passenger trains collide in the Swiss municipality of Granges-près-Marnand near Lausanne resulting in dozens of injuries including four serious injuries. (RT) Seven people have been injured following a series of explosions at a propane plant in the US town of Tavares in central Florida. (Fox News), (BBC), (AP via Vancouver Post) Five people died and a woman was injured in a helicopter crash, in Romania (Puterea.ro) International relations The New Zealand Ministry of Defence announces that it will investigate claims that it collected telephone metadata on Jon Stephenson, a freelance journalist for The McClatchy Company in Afghanistan. (AP via MyFox Phoenix) Law and crime €103 million worth of diamonds and other jewels are stolen from the Carlton Intercontinental Hotel in Cannes, in one of Europe's biggest jewelry heists in recent years. (AP via News24) FBI announces the arrests of 150 suspects, during a three-day sweep that took place in 76 cities across the United States, on charges of child sex-trafficking. (Reuters) Sports In association football, former Birmingham City and Club América striker Christian Benítez dies of cardiac arrest complications in a hospital in Qatar. Having won the championship in Mexico, Benítez signed with El Jaish SC. (Excélsior) RD: Ilya Segalovich No consensus to post; no progress made in expanding the article in the past 6 days (article too short). Spencer 16:22, 3 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Ilya Segalovich (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) Credits: Nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit) Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: My first RD nom so unsure how these go. Anyways, it may be a long shot, but I thought its something different from outside the English-speaking world and he was an internet entrepreneur. He wasn't even 50 so its not "old guy dying". Importatnly, he was the co-founder of Russia's Yandex (read a la Google's Sergey Brin) Lihaas (talk) 23:16, 29 July 2013 (UTC) There should ideally be five sentences in the death section, and if he is more important than just the co-founder of a search engine it shouldn't be too hard to find relevant two sentences of relevant praise of his work. It's kind of hard to see his importance given the size of the article. Perhaps more can be translated from the Russian? μηδείς (talk) 01:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC) The Russian article is also very short.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:07, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose I don't know where all this RD noms are coming from. The proposal that lead to the deaths ticker does not allow for nominations specifically as an RD item. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.68.240 (talk) 17:23, 30 July 2013 (UTC) please take side discussions to talk page --Jayron32 23:36, 30 July 2013 (UTC) The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. If you want to oppose this nomination, please come up with a valid reason - claiming recent deaths can't be nominated specifically for RD is nonsense. --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:29, 30 July 2013 (UTC) The fact that this is out of process is very much a valid reason. Re-read the original proposal. If you don't like it then propose changing it but policy does not change according to what you want it to say. The RD listing iwas intended as a halfway house for noms that fail to get a full feature. Here we have a suggestion that EVEN THE NOMINATOR does not think warrants that. Why should it be considered for that back-up option when even s/he has so little faith in it? 87.112.68.240 (talk) 17:42, 30 July 2013 (UTC) You'll need to link to where you are getting this. The RfC under which RD was proposed specifically offered he alternative of nominations for either full blurbs or ticker listings, that's the way it has been done since the first RD entry, and the template reflects this clearly. μηδείς (talk) 17:52, 30 July 2013 (UTC) (re: 87.112) Um, RD is the default for 95%+ of all deaths and has been since inception. Full blurbs are not given for nearly anyone. It is not a "half way" compromise, but rather the normal way to list deaths. Again, come up with a VALID reason to oppose or drop it. (Also, Misplaced Pages policies are descriptive, not prescriptive. If there was a conflict between RD policy and this nomination, which there is not, it would be because the policy that is out of date. This nomination is perfectly ordinary and not the least be invalid.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:50, 30 July 2013 (UTC) From : The nomination process would (unless it is found necessary to change at a later date) remain part of the ITN nominating process, with the added provision ie it is an additional option may use, not an alternative for nominators to use. The motion then goes on to explain in detail as to how votes are to be counted which is premised on there being three options. That voting process was very hotly debated so you can't wave it aside when it is inconvenient. If there is no nomination for a blurb there is no nom for RD either. If the rule has been habitually ignored that does not alter the rule - the argument "this is the way we have done it" is itself not a valid one. 87.112.68.240 (talk) 19:21, 30 July 2013 (UTC) That a blurb suggestion is required is entirely your novel interpretation of the discussion, not something that was discussed by even one person. The distinction you are trying to make between "additional option" and "alternate option" is nonsensical. Our actual policy says nothing like requiring a blurb suggestion - it only says most deaths are listed only on RD. It is down right silly to mandate people supply a blurb suggestion when they well know the death is of RD (not full-blurb) level. Finally, and most importantly if you think Misplaced Pages policy works like a law system where laws are passed and then carried out, you are very much mistaken. Our policy is decided by practice, not the other way around. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:03, 30 July 2013 (UTC) I agree that it is absurd to see a blurb when nom'd ONLY for RD. Anyhoo , close this side discussion to move to the tlajk page and discuss the nom?Lihaas (talk) 20:21, 30 July 2013 (UTC) IP 87's statement is manifestly false. It hardly makes sense to hat the statements pointing that out while leaving his second sentence--the oppose in the first sentence should be enough. μηδείς (talk) 00:03, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose, at least for the moment. His significance hasn't been demonstrated - was he really one of the most important internet businessmen / pioneers? If he just co-founded a Russian search engine and nothing else, that isn't enough to meet the criteria as far as I'm concerned. Modest Genius 12:28, 31 July 2013 (UTC) The main search enginge in the country. Ala googleLihaas (talk) 19:05, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Well, sort of. Google is popular worldwide. But that aside, I so no evidence that he made substantial innovations or was an outstandingly significant figure in internet commerce. Modest Genius 11:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Libyan assassination Article: 2013 Benghazi conflict#July (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Following the assassination of Muslim Brotherhood critic Abdelsalam al-Mosmary, violent protests and bombings occur in Benghazi and the Libyan national capital, Tripoli. (Post) Credits: Updated and nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: Similar to the Tunisia anti-Islamist assassination except that this has had more violent repercussions. Bit pov to post one and noth the other? Lihaas (talk) 23:16, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Who is bombing whom? μηδείς (talk) 00:04, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Its on the page as factional fighting. In this case Islamists vs. secularists/liberal.Lihaas (talk) 00:14, 30 July 2013 (UTC) National capital of where? Formerip (talk) 00:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC) That was in the section title ;)Lihaas (talk) 00:30, 30 July 2013 (UTC) So does the section need wikilinking within the blurb? Formerip (talk) 00:36, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Not sure what you mean, but I hasd since added it to the blurb/Lihaas (talk) 00:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Reading the article you get the impression the assassination and bombings are attacks by the islamists. The blurb doesn't convey that. It is like when you read "150 dead in religious violence in Nigeria" in a headline and then the article says one suicide bomber bomber killed 149 Christian churchgoers. The facts and the blurb should be clearer. μηδείς (talk) 01:18, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Tunisia update Articles: Tunisian general election, 2013 (talk · history · tag) and Mohamed Brahmi (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Following the assassination of Mohamed Brahmi and ensuing protests, a general election is set for 17 December. (Post) Credits: Nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit) Updated by Lihaas (talk · give credit) Both articles updatedNominator's comments: The original article update for ITN is still listed near the top of INT so I though this was a significant update and reaction to the protests./ Lihaas (talk) 23:16, 29 July 2013 (UTC) The general election will be ITNR when it occurs, but I don't think the mere scheduling of the election is ITN worthy. I'm withholding a formal oppose opinion as I don't know what precedent is in this area; are the calling of general elections in other countries posted(such as the UK and Canada where they do not necessarily occur on a regular basis)? 331dot (talk) 23:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Weve done it when its not a refular scheduled election. Likewise this was affirmed after the protests and the recent chaos.Lihaas (talk) 00:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose ITN deals with after the election, not before doktorb words 06:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC) We have posted unusual circumstances calling for electionsLihaas (talk) 09:14, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose. We already posted the assassination, and we will post the election when it happens. No need for a third appearance. Modest Genius 12:29, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Its only a bump/blurb update, not a third postingLihaas (talk) 19:03, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Well them maybe you should have said that in the nomination? I support updating the wording (without the second bold link), but oppose bumping it. Modest Genius 19:09, 1 August 2013 (UTC) Uumm, I did mention it as only an update. See above.v.Lihaas (talk) 21:03, 3 August 2013 (UTC) Jewelry stolen in Cannes No consensus to post. Spencer 16:19, 3 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Carlton Cannes · (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Jewels worth $136 million were stolen from the Carlton Cannes in Cannes making it the biggest jewelry heists in years. (Post) News source(s): hollywoodreporter Credits: Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit) Article needs updatingNominator's comments: This is a notable jewelry stealing. A lot of jewelry that is. Worth a lot of money was stolen in Cannes. Andise1 (talk) 02:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose, when the last one was nominated, (Brussels Airport diamond heist), assurances were given that it was special, rare and large. So it was posted. Now later the same givlomh year we are treated to another robbery. No thank you. Abductive (reasoning) 05:25, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose As above. doktorb words 06:35, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose, I think it is not significant as Abductive expalined. Egeymi (talk) 07:11, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose: A bunch of gems get stolen from a bunch of rich people who had crap security. Not really important news in the grand scheme of things. --Somchai Sun (talk) 09:06, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Pile on oppose per the reasons given. 331dot (talk) 11:34, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose the total is now $136 Million. Sounds like poor people care more for their property than do the rich. Revisit if they catch Cary Grant or David Niven. μηδείς (talk) 16:15, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Opppose Time's up on this one. If they catch Leonardo I'll consider changing my mind. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:30, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Comment We should close this and open a new one, as now the reports say it is worth 136 million dollar, and not 53, making it the largest heist in history. It is now called the "heist of the century", passing Antwerp Diamond Heist (100million) and Schiphol Airport diamond heist (118m). Ref   – HonorTheKing (talk) 18:05, 29 July 2013 (UTC) opposed to relisting without new development. These will be numbers reported to insurers for reimbursement, not costs paid. μηδείς (talk) 19:08, 29 July 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Peace talks No consensus to post. Spencer 16:18, 3 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Peace process in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict#2013 talks (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Peace talks resume between Palestinian and Israeli representatives. (Post) News source(s): Credits: Nominated by FormerIP (talk · give credit) Article needs updating Formerip (talk) 00:37, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Comment Not wishing to poke fate with a large pointy stick on this, lets actually wait until there is something to announce, from my reading of the source all that has been agreed is that both sides will talk about talking. LGA talk 02:50, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support My initial thought was to oppose on the basis that nothing has actually happened yet, but on reflection I think the resumption of peace talks is sufficiently significant news in itself. No talks have occurred for several years, the whole process seemed stalled, and a great deal of diplomatic energy has gone into getting them to resume. The news is getting widespread international coverage too. Neljack (talk) 03:54, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support as per Neljack. --LukeSurl 08:39, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support: Significant, notable that it's happening in the first place again. --Somchai Sun (talk) 09:11, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support per reasons given. 331dot (talk) 12:04, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose This is the status quo: talks between Israel and Palestine start and stop. If there's actual progress made, that'll be news. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:17, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose for now As above. Talks mean nothing without action, if I can say that without sounding like a Facebook meme. doktorb words 14:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC) oppose by precedence we post results (and this will likely yield no tmuch but more promises to talk)Lihaas (talk) 15:04, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Normally that might be true, but in the context of the overall situation this is a significant development, as they haven't even agreed to talk about talking in years. 331dot (talk) 15:40, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Fair enough. weal oppose insteadLihaas (talk) 22:08, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose - The talks might just fail again.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:39, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Whether the talks fail or succeed is not the point; they haven't even agreed to talk about talking in years. 331dot (talk) 15:40, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose peace talks conclude would be notable. μηδείς (talk) 16:12, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support. The two sides doing anything other than attacking one another is big news in itself. —WFC— FL wishlist 17:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support - Agree that this a ITN-worthy blurb, as the two sides have not talked in years. Jusdafax 04:19, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose and it's a shame too. From all I've heard and read, there will be nothing significant to come from this, as Muboshgu notes, this on-off-on-off talkie-no-talkie relationship has been (and will be) the norm for some time. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Comment - neither the linked article section, nor the new standalone article are of sufficient quality to post, IMO. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Support per Neljack SeraV (talk) 23:21, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose - come on, this must be the atleast 10th time that the peace process breaks down and starts again. And with the palestinian president saying that Israel must leave all occupied territory it means this process is dead before it even started. The day when the peace process brings true peace then perhaps.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Perhaps? It should then be highlighted with colours all over. Weve got time to think hot to present it..Lihaas (talk) 23:46, 30 July 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. RD: Virginia E. Johnson Now stale, latest item now 27 July. LGA talk 08:46, 4 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Virginia E. Johnson (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) News source(s): BBC Credits: Nominated by Mohamed CJ (talk · give credit) Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: She's named the "first woman of sex therapy" and Robert C. Kolodny said "She received many awards, and is fairly widely recognised as one of the most important women in science in the 20th Century". Mohamed CJ (talk) 02:51, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support Certainly seems to qualify as a very important figure in her field. Neljack (talk) 03:43, 29 July 2013 (UTC) No Brainer so long as it's updated. μηδείς (talk) 03:53, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support, half of Masters and Johnson. Abductive (reasoning) 05:27, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Death was July 24. --LukeSurl 08:31, 29 July 2013 (UTC) When was it reported? Abductive (reasoning) 14:20, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support - RD, Seems notable in her field. --Somchai Sun (talk) 09:12, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support - undeniably important and historic woman. Jusdafax 10:40, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support Meets death criteria for her impact with Masters. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:20, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Comment - overall referencing is weak; death update is very insufficient. --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:14, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose as the article is Start class level and completely inadequate to be linked to the main page. RD shouldn't exist to link to pages with minimal information.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:33, 30 July 2013 (UTC) The article hardly has minimal information, and the ITN requirement is it be updated. not FA class (not that it's updated). Keep in mind she's neither recently famous, a football player, nor a video game. So the size of her article at wikipedia means nothing. μηδείς (talk) 03:04, 30 July 2013 (UTC) We frequently reject articles based on article quality.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Tagged articles. There's nothing wrong with this one per se. μηδείς (talk) 03:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC) And we reject articles that are minimal. RD should highlight quality articles of biographies of RDs. Highlighting quality content on WP is the primary aim of ITN, so article quality matters.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Just go ahead and link to such a policy of only highlighting premiere biographies if it exists. μηδείς (talk) 04:45, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Stale? The NYT published her death on the 25th. μηδείς (talk) 03:09, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Not yet. We have 2 items on the template that are July 21/22. Spencer 04:30, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Comment - This could be posted as it has consensus and it is not stale yet. However, it seems that noone has any interest in improving the death update or article in general, so right now it is being disqualified on those grounds. --ThaddeusB (talk) 18:58, 30 July 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. July 28 Portal:Current events/2013 July 28 July 28, 2013 (2013-07-28) (Sunday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Iraqi insurgency (post-U.S. withdrawal) A suicide bombing in the Iraqi town of Tuz Khormato kills at least eight policemen. (BBC) Arts and culture Pope Francis presides at the closing Mass of World Youth Day 2013 at Rio de Janeiro's Copacabana Beach for a crowd estimated at 3-million. (Los Angeles Times) Disasters and accidents A bus returning 48 pilgrims from a weekend visit to the shrine of Saint Padre Pio of Pietrelcina, in San Giovanni Rotondo, goes off a bridge east of Naples, in Avellino Province, killing 39 people (including some children), and injuring at least 9 others. (English News CN) International relations In a first, India has offered a $100-million credit line to Vietnam to purchase military equipment. It will be used for purchasing four patrol boats. (The Hindu) Law and crime Francisco José Garzón Amo, the driver of the train involved in the Santiago de Compostela derailment, is charged with 79 counts of manslaughter in a Spanish court. (USA Today) Politics and elections Voters in Cambodia go to the polls for a general election with the governing Cambodian People's Party led by Prime Minister Hun Sen claiming victory amidst opposition claims of widespread irregularities. (BBC) (News Limited) Voters in Mali go to the polls for a presidential election. (BBC) The Togolese electoral commission releases official results for the recent parliamentary election with President Faure Gnassingbe's Union for the Republic party winning 62 of 91 seats with the Opposition threatening to challenge the results. (AP via Houston Chronicle) Sports In soccer news, the United States defeats Panama by a score of 1-0 to win the 2013 CONCACAF Gold Cup. (CONCACAF) Cambodian general election, 2013 Article: Cambodian general election, 2013 (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Amid allegations of voting irregularities, the Cambodian People's Party wins a majority of seats in the National Assembly. (Post) Credits: Nominated by Spencer (talk · give credit) Updated by Number 57 (talk · give credit) and Spencer (talk · give credit) The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.Nominator's comments: I will try to do some more expansion and add some more references later tonight. The results are preliminary but will be confirmed finally in Mid-August to early September. However, this appears to be procedural, as in the prior 2 elections there was a 2-week gap but the seat totals did not change. --Spencer 13:35, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Tentative support until references are added. Some sections don't have any. General elections thrice the size of Ireland should be easy ITNR. –HTD 05:02, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Marking ready since this is an updated ITN/R. Spencer 23:57, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Looks good, posting --ThaddeusB (talk) 00:24, 1 August 2013 (UTC) 2013 CONCACAF Gold Cup No consensus to post. Spencer 13:45, 30 July 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Articles: 2013 CONCACAF Gold Cup (talk · history · tag) and 2013 CONCACAF Gold Cup Final (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ In association football, the United States defeats Panama to win the 2013 CONCACAF Gold Cup. (Post) News source(s): Credits: Nominated by CWY2190 (talk · give credit) Nominator's comments: This is a confederation championship like the UEFA European Championship, African Cup of Nations, Asian Cup, and Copa America all of which are included in WP:ITNR. In the past have suggested that this be included to small, but positive support. --CWY2190(talk • contributions) 23:36, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose because you spoiled the final for me :). Otherwise, this was a B-team tournament for all the top teams in Concacaf. I watched many of the matches in the tournament. Concacaf teams take this tournament more seriously in the year after the World Cup when the winner qualifies for the Confederations Cup.--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:39, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Comment. These types of competitions being nominated has been controversial in the past, as this is not the top level of competition; it has also been suggested in the past that the aforementioned similar tournaments be removed from ITNR. 331dot (talk) 23:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC) On the flip side some people would argue that as football is the most popular sport in teh world it deserves more coverage on ITN. I'm fine with posting the Copa America and the CAF; not sure about the Asian Cup. However, given that this isn't really a 'top level' competition in North America, I really think it doesn't come close. BTW the Copa Libertadores just finished which is ITNR and it wssn't nominated but its' more notable than this.--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:46, 28 July 2013 (UTC) It's "not really" the top level for North America from a US perspective, since they don't need to exert themselves much, but it very actually the top level from the perspective of, say, Belize, or in the most obvious sense that there is no North American championship at a higher level. Formerip (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC) It's not just a US perspective. The top 3-4 teams--Mexico, Costa Rica, etc sent weakened squads. The US didn't have to exert themselves to win it because they never faced a full strength team from of of the major Concacaf teams.--Johnsemlak (talk) 00:40, 29 July 2013 (UTC) I didn't use the word "just", although I am thinking from a Rawlsian perspective. Formerip (talk) 00:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose. It's not comparable to the Euros, Copa America etc, because most of the participating nations are minnows and there is not much variation in who wins. Formerip (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose I was inclined to support, but then I looked at the articles; given the state of them with relation to MOS issue and the lack of any prose on the actual event, it is nothing more than a results listing I could not support linking from the main page. If those are fixed then would consider a support. LGA talk 02:33, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Opposecertainly no coverage off the sports pages in the US. See comments about importance of mere soccer games below. μηδείς (talk) 03:52, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose I know it's not a major soccer tournament because we won it. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:21, 29 July 2013 (UTC) +1 204.111.20.10 (talk) 17:05, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose With a few exceptions these were mostly B-squad teams. Outside of Omar Gonzalez, Eddie Johnson and Landon Donovan, even the winning team was mostly B-squad. --12.41.124.5 (talk) 21:32, 29 July 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 2013 Italy bus crash No consensus to post; article extremely short and has not been updated since it was nominated about a week ago. Spencer 16:17, 3 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: 2013 Italy bus crash (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ 38 people die when a bus came off a flyover and fell down a slope. (Post) News source(s): The Local, NBC News; CNN Credits: Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit) Article needs updatingNominator's comments: Major bus crash in a country where accidents are not common. More news sources are covering this event but I am nominating this somewhere where service is really slow. there is no article on the crash yet. Andise1 (talk) 23:25, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose unless death-toll rises significantly or some other notable incident is involved. Tragic, but not encyclopedic. μηδείς (talk) 03:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support - Yes, it's "just" a bus crash, but we do post them from time to time, and the death toll of this one is significant enough already. This appears to be the second-deadliest traffic accident of 2013 after the Chibombo bus crash, which we posted. --Bongwarrior (talk) 10:50, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Weak support. I think the argument can be made that the level of casualties isn't enough here, but this story is getting a lot of coverage. This is on the front page of NBC News and CNN as of this moment. 331dot (talk) 12:01, 29 July 2013 (UTC) oppose 100 deaths in guinea and we don't post that. European ;lives arenot worth more for ITN merit.Lihaas (talk) 15:05, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Who said that they were? If you are referring to this, it appears it was not given the attention requested before posting. No news sources were provided to indicate its coverage in the news; it was also not a recent event. It had nothing to do with valuing anyone's life or lives more than anyone else. 331dot (talk) 15:36, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose Tragic accident, but not appropriate for WP to cover as no evidence of long term effects. --MASEM (t) 15:33, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Same can be said about the last few train crashes we posted... YuMaNuMa 02:49, 31 July 2013 (UTC) Support Will need some more updating, but a large death toll for a road accident and getting extensive international coverage - it was top of the BBC News website, for instance. Neljack (talk) 21:50, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Support: unusually high death toll for an accident in a developed country. -Zanhe (talk) 09:34, 31 July 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. World Youth Day 2013 concludes No consensus to post. Spencer 16:11, 3 August 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: World Youth Day 2013 (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ 3 million attend the closing papal Mass for World Youth Day 2013 at Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janeiro. (Post) News source(s): Credits: Nominated by Gentgeen (talk · give credit) Article needs updating --Gentgeen (talk) 18:51, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose A lot of people, but nothing terribly newsworthy happened to report. Lots of people turning up to see and hear the Pope isn't exactly anything new. Neljack (talk) 22:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose. While I'm sympathetic to the idea of posting an event involving a immensely large gathering of people(in the millions), this was a gathering of Catholics in a heavily Catholic country to see their spiritual leader. It would be news if such an event didn't draw such a large crowd. 331dot (talk) 22:27, 28 July 2013 (UTC) What's the difference with that with events such as world cups where there is an immensely large gathering of fans (indeed, this one is a lot of times larger than the largest world cup crowds) in a heavily <insert sport>-crazed country? Those aren't "exactly anything new", to quote the post above this one, either... –HTD 10:31, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Comment It would be kind of nice to have something that isn't a variation of Something horrible happens, causing lots of people to die. -- tariqabjotu 23:49, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Just wait for some sporting event. Beerest355 Talk 01:53, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose unless some other notable related event occurs. On the merits this is probably more important than most sports playoff finals and street protests, but I oppose them too. μηδείς (talk) 03:50, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Comment I can see the opposers' points. It's too bad this isn't one of the 15 largest gatherings of people in recorded history. Oh, wait, it is. Gentgeen (talk) 06:14, 30 July 2013 (UTC Is that a support vote under the sarcasm? 331dot (talk) 10:58, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Gentgeen is the nominator. Spencer 16:11, 3 August 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Death toll in Syria passes 100k This is obviously not getting posted. Mohamed CJ (talk) 02:54, 29 July 2013 (UTC) The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Article: Casualties of the Syrian civil war (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ The United Nations announces that the death toll of the Syrian civil war has surpassed 100,000. (Post) News source(s): Associated Press Credits: Nominated by Mohamed CJ (talk · give credit) Updated by EkoGraf (talk · give credit) Nominator's comments: While this was announced four days earlier, I think it's still fresh news. 100k death toll is a significant milestone for the civil war. Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:11, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose it's a horrible war and a horrible milestone, but ultimately these sorts of non-events are arbitrary milestones and are not themselves meaningful. The 99,999th death is no less notable than the 100,000th. We should report notable events from wars, not meaningless, symbolic, and arbitrary events that coincide with round numbers. --Jayron32 17:51, 28 July 2013 (UTC) The number of casualties shows how deep and devastating the war has become. If we'd report territory changes such as army X took over Y strategic city/town/neighborhood, then we'd have to report back when the other party takes it back as well (the situation is fluid). At least, this is the argument offered to me here. Mohamed CJ (talk) 18:24, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose. The article is updated, but there is very little "updated content" for us to showcase. Since this milestone is not connected to any particular event, there is not much more to say about this outside of what is already stated in the blurb. -- Black Falcon 18:41, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose Trivial. What about the 100,000th road death in Mexico? Or the 100,000th cancer death in Germany? Lugnuts 18:47, 28 July 2013 (UTC) Is "trivial" really the right word? I'm just wondering. Formerip (talk) 00:43, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Oppose per the reasons given. 331dot (talk) 19:05, 28 July 2013 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. References Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process. For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: