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Restricted-use media list

Three years ago, a consensus (now in the archive) was reached to rename this list, so I reopened Template:Bug, which had been about this same page. In all honesty, there was no certain consensus reached about what the name of the list should be, just that it needed to be renamed. The name "Restricted-use media list" (since images may not be the only restricted media) appears to be the highest and best contender for the new name. Recently, as shown by the code review at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/53190/, the bug is said to have been fixed and this list page can now be redirected to a page of choice. If there are no objections, I will place an {{Editprotected}} template to move and redirect this page in a few days. In case anyone goes ahead with the rename, be sure to leave a redirect so mediawiki will be able to use it to find the new page. – PAINE ELLSWORTH  16:12, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
PS. There have been several discussions about this, the first of which appears to have been in this talk page's very first archive, here, which took place about seven years ago.

{{Editprotected}}

There has been an alteration in the MediaWiki software, as shown here, that allows this page to be moved and redirected. This was brought about by several discussions on this talk page (now in the archives) and by Template:Bug, which has been open for nearly five years on this particular subject. As noted above, the name of choice for this page appears to be:

• MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list
  

Please rename this page, and be sure to leave behind a redirect so the software will be able to find the new page. Thank you in advance! – PAINE ELLSWORTH  23:23, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

 Question: Has there been any discussion at a centralised venue on-wiki? This page receives quite a lot of use, so we should probably have a discussion at a place where more people will be watching before we move the page. — Mr. Stradivarius 07:29, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Your caution is understandable. As far as I know, this has been discussed extensively here on this talk page and on the bug report page. I am unaware of any discussions other than that. Perhaps we should give it a little more time. We've waited this long so a few more days wait will do no harm. What I can do for now is subdue the Ep template for a bit longer to see if more discussion is generated. --Paine Ellsworth (talk • contribs) 07:56, 19 March 2013‎ (UTC)

I think I'll start an RfC here and advertise it in a few likely places - hopefully that should do the trick. — Mr. Stradivarius 08:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, that should help a lot. – PAINE ELLSWORTH  08:18, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Can you explain why we would need a redirect on this page? A) most Wikipedians save the technical minded would never reach this page (and even then only the talkpage itself where the real stuff happens) and B) this is embedded directly into the software itself, and I think the software is better at updating its cache than reading from a redirect. I'd much rather avoid breaking the software with a redirect. TeleComNasSprVen (talk • contribs) 09:41, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Good question! Frankly, I'm not entirely sure "why", but it has something to do with other wikis, I think. Anyway, the most recent bug discussion at Template:Bug, comment 44 by Platonides, is where talk first begins about the redirect. – Paine Ellsworth  19:39, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

PS. I just reread gerrit:53190 and it reads... "Allow the bad image list to be redirected elsewhere." So the idea appears to be to redirect this list to a different pagename that an admin on any given wiki would be able to alter. PS added by – Paine Ellsworth 

It has now may soon become technically possible to rename MediaWiki:Bad image list. Should we move the page to MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list? If not, would another name be better? Or is the name fine as it is? — Mr. Stradivarius 08:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support name change to MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list. While over the years the sure consensus was for the need to change the pagename, what name to change it to has escaped consensus. I feel that this name is best-suited for this page, since the usage of the images is "restricted", and since there may be other media besides images that require restricted use. This media is not intrinsically "bad" nor should it be listed as such. – PAINE ELLSWORTH  08:36, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support move to MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list or similar. The page's current name is wildly inaccurate, as I've commented in the past. Tim Starling's 2009 response was downright bizarre, and I'm thankful that we've finally moved past it. —David Levy 10:00, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support name change to MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list. The images are not, they are restricted, suggested name change is good. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 10:26, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support change as suggested above. Long overdue. — Hex (❝?!❞) 10:39, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support name change to MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list. It's accurate, concise and objective, like all of Misplaced Pages should be.--TyrS 11:16, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support proposed rename. I've made countless comments on this issue over the years, and while I don't think I was initially in favour I long ago came to the conclusion that the namechange needs to happen. Thryduulf (talk) 12:30, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support proposed rename. "Bad" is a loaded term. I've seen plenty of images here that I consider "bad" even though they're G-rated. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 12:46, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• comment not to spoil anyone's party but the change in mediawiki has not been approved yet. The bug will be marked fixed when (and if) it is fixed. Cheers Bawolff (talk) 16:09, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

  I for one find that acceptable. After all, this is obviously not an easy "fix", and there are important considerations, like the impact on sister wikis' and their own "restricted-use media lists". After all this time I remain hopeful that there will be a positive outcome. It's my fault for jumping the gun; the positive words I read at the bug report and on the code page gave me the impression that it was all over but the shouting. – PAINE ELLSWORTH  17:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

  For my part, I should have checked the technical status before I posted the RfC. Sorry about that. It's probably about time that I learned how this code review business works, anyway. I've tweaked the RfC intro text to make it clearer that the feature is not yet live. — Mr. Stradivarius 03:19, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

• Super-strong neutral: This is really inside baseball. Even people who are active on Wikimedia wikis barely know about this feature or its name. It makes almost no difference to me what this page is called. (Tangentially, I personally think the list should be a gallery , as a list of images is not very easy to browse.) If the name is changed, my only comment would be to ensure that surrounding documentation is also updated. Otherwise, I really have difficulty expressing how much of a non-issue I think this page's name is. I'm glad that Platonides seems to have been able to cut the Gordian knot (such that it was). I'll push to see that gerrit:53190 get approved, as I think it's a reasonable change and a reasonable compromise here. It'll likely be another three or four weeks before this change is live on the English Misplaced Pages, however. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

  "Bad image list" obfuscates the feature's purpose, even if "bad" isn't taken literally. An image's inclusion reflects a history of vandalism, not an assessment of its intrinsic qualities. Images widely regarded as offensive are among the most likely targets, but a seemingly innocuous image can be abused just as easily (as part of a meme, for example).
  The page's name has caused confusion with non-trivial implications. For example, during the image filter debates, the list's existence was cited as evidence that Misplaced Pages already evaluates images and deems certain ones "bad"/objectionable. —David Levy 22:30, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your support of gerrit:53190, MZMcBride! As you are neutral about what this page is named, so am I neutral about whether it should be a list or a gallery. One thing about all this that shouldn't be missed, though, is that our ability to change the name of this page means that if one day it becomes a gallery, it can easily be modified to a name like MediaWiki:Restricted-use media gallery or similar. – PAINE ELLSWORTH  17:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: MediaWiki:Restricted media list is less wordy, less jargony, and possibly easier to understand for a non-native speaker, and I would suggest it as an alternative to "Restricted-use." But either way, support. Fishal (talk) 19:39, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• I agree with MZM. The page could be called MediaWiki:Flying pink monkeys as far as I'm concerned, so long as it has the same functionality. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:49, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support name change to MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list. More accurate name that will be less confusing for those that stumble over it for the first time. Granted, this will not be the most important decision ever made, but a reasonable one. --Atlasowa (talk) 09:49, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support - these images aren't "bad" - each of them is (probably) a good image for some topic which our encyclopedia should cover. They are "restricted use" - that is, use of these images is under strict control, for they have a high chance of being abused. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:38, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
• Neutral and bikeshed. I agree with Fishal that MediaWiki:Restricted media list sounds better. --cesarb (talk) 21:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support I'm with Baseball Bugs on this. It's not really a bikeshed issue to me, because I think that using the term "bad image" to describe... well... a collection of images primarily consisting of genitalia sends the wrong kind of message. The message needs to be "people are abusing the use of these images by putting them in unrelated articles", and not "porn is bad kids". This is also Sven Manguard 22:57, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I meant that I was bikeshedding (Restricted-use versus Restricted), not that this whole discussion is a bikeshed. Sorry if I was not clear enough. --cesarb (talk) 23:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support MediaWiki:Restricted media list. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 05:02, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
• Have none of the originators heard of WP:BRD? VanIsaac_{WS Vex} 08:33, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

  I have, and sometimes it ain't easy to be bold!-) – PAINE ELLSWORTH  09:09, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

  Certainly if it's not possible. It's not (yet) technically possible for a user to rename an interface page. Cheers, theFace 19:34, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support rename, but I think "Restricted-use media" sounds awkward. Would prefer: Restricted media list, Restricted media or Restricted files. The name should at least contain the word "Restricted" to emphasize its connection with Template:Restricted use. Cheers, theFace 19:28, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support - I think moving it from "bad" to "restricted" makes sense. I think MediaWiki:Restricted-use media list sounds more clear about what the page handles, but that's only because it sounds more clear to me. However, I don't think it's a big deal what it actually gets changed to in terms of those small details. - SudoGhost 03:17, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
• How about "abused images" or "shock images"? —rybec 03:23, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

• The use of the images are restricted, so I think that would be the best descriptor. I don't think abused or shock works as well, because that makes an assumption about why they've been added which may or may not be accurate, but more importantly doesn't give as concise a description as to the function of this page. The images are restricted, why they're restricted may vary, but "Restricted image list" makes it clear what the purpose of the list is, whereas "abused images list" or "shock images list" makes it seem as though it's just a collection of shock images without describing the actual purpose of the page, which is to restrict the use of the images.. - SudoGhost 05:40, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
  • "Shock images list" is particularly bad as not all the entries on the list are shock images, and it is not necessarily the case that all the images have been abused. Thryduulf (talk) 18:14, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support. "Badness" depends on context. Rivertorch (talk) 19:43, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support Please call it Index of Explicit Media. §FreeRangeFrog 19:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

If an image, whatever it may depict, is used for vandalism, one possibility to combat the vandalism is to put it on this page. Almost all media on this list are explicit, but there are a few exceptions. Currently, I count 15 of them:

5 swastikas: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; 2 logos: 6, 7; 4 tame pics: 8, 9, 10, 11; 3 weird pics: 12, 13, 14; and 1 gif which should give you seizures or something: 15 (seriously, what is this??).

Cheers, theFace 20:34, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't think of that. Thank you. In that case, I'd support List of restricted-use media or some variation thereof, with "restricted" instead of "explicit". §FreeRangeFrog 20:44, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

• Whatever per cesarb and MZM. Seriously not at all important. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 04:13, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• Neutral - Hardly important in the grand scheme of things... MisterShiney ✉ 14:03, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
• Sure I've never really understood the uproar that the title causes within the minds of some, but if the technical means to move the page to a more accurate description is available, I see no harm in a rename. One less thorn in the side. --auburnpilot talk 19:40, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: A fuller history of this controversial change can be found at I14e35ef2. – PAINE ELLSWORTH  18:14, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Status?

Can anybody bring this discussion up-to-date? What is the status? – PAINE ELLSWORTH  07:47, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Ref:

• Template:Bug
• gerrit:53190
• gerrit:53189

New image for the list

A vandal on Timeline of Google Street View replaced the contents of the page with File:Bajs.jpg. It seems like an image that belongs on the Bad image list. Paris1127 (talk) 22:23, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Another request for addition to this list

Someone just added Wiki-POV-pornography.png to Tim Burton. It should be added to this list so no one can use it for vandalism again. Jinkinson talk to me 19:51, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on December 24, 2013

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Can someone add File:Erect penis shaved.JPG to the list? Was just used in a vandalism spree. --Jakob (talk) 21:51, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

 Done by Nick. Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:38, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

File:Hirsuties papillaris coronae glandis.jpg

Please allow for Human penis. Wnt (talk) 17:50, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Done. - BanyanTree 07:46, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

File:Wiki-fellatio02.png

Can an exception be made for File:Wiki-fellatio02.png on Ass to mouth. Another user just legitimately tried to add it there, but failed because it's not on the exceptions list. Thanks! – RobinHood70 11:34, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

The current image is of deep throat which isnt an essential part of ass to mouth so this image illustrates the act better♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 16:54, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

File:Hentai - yuuree-redraw.jpg

I would like to add this file image to cartoon pornography which currently has no illustrations, this would make a good illustration♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 16:54, 12 January 2014 (UTC)