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Question

If you're reading this, and you're waiting on me for a response to something, please remind me of it. I've had family in and out of the hospital recently on top of computer problems, so some balls got dropped.--Tznkai (talk)

Also, if anyone is disturbed by my constant self depreciating reference to the Judgement of Solomon, please let me know.--Tznkai (talk)

Regarding appeal Cihsai

Hi Tznkai, upon your advice I have informed the three editors on their talk pages. I was not aware that such notice was my responsibility, therefore thank you for your advice. I wish to inform the editor Omer182 as well who had taken a lead role in discussion back in 2007-2008. Would he be allowed to contribute under the "uninvolved editors" section, if he prefers to interfere?

I wish to make some further statements in view of the comments of "uninvolved editors" as well as possibly "involved editors". Can you please advise where I can insert such new statements?Cihsai (talk) 20:29, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Cihsai, you would add comments under "statement by Cihsai", other editors will add their comments where they will in their best judgement.--Tznkai (talk) 04:34, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi,I have of course acknowledged your decision about the ban. I know that your decision is not subject to discussion. However I am eager to know the reasons for your decision. Therefore I kindly ask you to provide comments to the statements I have made. I have let some time to pass and reevaluated my statements. I beleive I have presented the facts in understandable English. My common sense as well as the Misplaced Pages guidelines as quoted in my statement, lead me to beleive that those facts would not render me to have deserved a ban. Actually I would expect the counterparts to be criticised.I wonder whether I have failed to present the facts or the “Rules” are very different from what I understand.Thanks in advanceCihsai (talk) 20:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I've been pretty busy this week, but I will try to review over the next day. Is that alright?--Tznkai (talk) 21:11, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

OK. I'm not sure there are formal rules on this anywhere, but in my opinion, in order to modify the ban of another administrator I have to be convinced not that I would have done something different, but that the administrator who did it was obviously wrong. If it is reasonable that the other administrator did what they did, I should not over turn it. OR, if circumstances have changed significantly since the original action, then I might waive or lessen the sanction. Either way, you have to convince me that something is significantly different.

The hang up seems to be over the nature of consensus and the revert/discuss cycle. Your appeal seemed to rest on three grounds. 1. That you had in fact been discussing, 2. that the other people involved in the discussion were reverting without discussion and 3. that you were actually defending the status quo ante.

In order for discussion to be adequate, it needs to be sustained, currently active and almost always on the talk page. If an edit is controversial, that means get agreement before making the substantive change. The point is for people to work together and to come to compromise. So, you needed to be actively discussing. Your second and third points don't work out because of the old adage of two wrongs not making a right. Maybe your opponents should have been more polite, and maybe someone should have done a better job back in 2008, but right now, you're using the edit process to try to force what you think should be the correct.

I understand that the flimsy way we use "consensus" is incredibly frustrating, but the bottom line is this: you have to convince people that you're right, or at least to compromise, instead of just editing the page to try to get your way.--Tznkai (talk) 17:21, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Some food for thought

Amanda Hess' article on being a woman subject to threats on the internet. The law-enforcement part isn't our problem per se, but the dynamic is.--Tznkai (talk)

Indef blocked IPs problem

Hey, so I am nudging you per your remark. There are competing ideas on how to handle the problem but I think the consensus is that this is indeed a problem which is progress never the less.

There are two main competing ideas at the moment one that suggests carefully checking the IPs before unblocking them and the other (mine) is to unblock 1000 IPs per day and let RC patrol/everybody monitor these.

The problem with running checks on these IPs is that it requires some expertise to operate and interpret tools to determine if an IP is an open proxy or not. Even if there were such people with disposable time it would take them months to years to process 20,000 IPs even if they dedicated their time to this task. I do not believe this is worth the trouble.

I think my idea of unblocking 1000 indef blocked IPs per day (only IPs blocked before 2010 and with exceptions at the discretion of admins, arbitrators, checkusers etc. whom may choose to reinstate the block) and monitor them seems to be a practical solution to the problem. The discretion clause is there to avoid senseless wheel wars as the goal here is to pre-process indef blocks down to more manageable numbers where we can review remaining ones with greater scrutiny. It would still take about 1 month to process this many IPs.

Mind that a good chunk of the blocks were precautionary rather than to prevent disruption and the people enacting them while having good intentions weren't necessarily experts in handling open proxies. I am not trying to accuse anyone, just merely suggesting that particularly indeffed IP blocks prior to 1 January 2010 are perhaps outdated as we do not indef block known open proxies today. That cut-off date is entirely arbitrary by the way. Also 20,000 IPs may sound like a lot but we do not run such proposed checks to billions of IPs that edit[REDACTED] "unchecked".

-- A Certain White Cat 18:24, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

OK. I'm going to think about the best way to approach it. While I agree that manually checking IPs is an inefficient way to do it, there tends to be strong resistance to mass unblocking for reasons beyond my understanding. It will do no good to simply unblock a bunch if they are immediately reblocked by someone else. I think we're going to need to demonstrate some sort of groundwork, or automated system before approaching that. I will ask around.--Tznkai (talk) 17:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

It would have been nice if ArbCom established some sort of arbitrary cut off date for this... allowing a bulk unblock prior to that arbitrary date... I am not opposed to the notion of automated checks (if IPs are dynamic ranges, globally blocked on meta, public open proxies, etc.) but say if a check returned positive for open proxy, the block should still be reduced to 1-2 years rather than indefinite as we do not do indefinite blocks for open proxies anymore as you probably know for years. Mind that I do not want to game the system by reducing the blocks down to 1-2 years and let them expire in bulk either. We need to have a way to keep long term blocks in check - particularly for open proxies. -- A Certain White Cat 17:12, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Coming up in February!

Hello there!

Our February WikiSalon is coming up on Sunday, February 23. Join us at our gathering of Misplaced Pages enthusiasts at the Kogod Courtyard of the National Portrait Gallery with an optional dinner after. As usual, all are welcome. Care to join us?

Also, if you are available, there is an American Art Edit-a-thon being held at the Smithsonian American Art Museum with Professor Andrew Lih's COMM-535 class at American University on Tuesday, February 11 from 2 to 5 PM. Please RSVP on the linked page if you are interested.

If you have any ideas or preferences for meetups, please let us know at Misplaced Pages talk:Meetup/DC.

Thank you, and hope to see you at our upcoming events! Harej (talk) 18:42, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Why...?

I agree that the other user's edit was possible vandalism, but why did you put that Meryl Davis and Charlie White won bronze? Team USA won bronze, but in the actual ice dance, Davis and White got first. I edited it again, with a better explanation, to emphasize that, otherwise it'd be false information. 50.15.85.74 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:51, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

both are acceptably accurate.--Tznkai (talk) 01:28, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

DC Meetups in March

Happy March!

Though we have a massive snowstorm coming up, spring is just around the corner! Personally, I am looking forward to warmer weather.

Wikimedia DC is looking forward to a spring full of cool and exciting activities. In March, we have coming up:

• Evening WikiSalon on Wednesday, March 12 from 7 PM – 9 PM. Meet up with Wikipedians for coffee at the Cove co-working space in Dupont Circle! If you cannot make it in the evening, join us at our...
• March Meetup on Sunday, March 23 from 3 PM – 6 PM. Our monthly weekend meetup, same place as last month. Meet really cool and interesting people!
• Women in the Arts 2014 meetup and edit-a-thon on Sunday, March 30 from 10 AM – 5 PM. Our second annual Women in the Arts edit-a-thon, held at the National Museum of Women in the Arts. Free lunch will be served!

We hope to see you at our upcoming events! If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page.

— Harej (talk) 05:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)