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This is an informal place to resolve content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Misplaced Pages. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Misplaced Pages policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Misplaced Pages page. This may also apply to some groups.

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Current disputes

Talk:Rob Ford mayoral campaign, 2014#Ben Johnson and Sam Tarasco

Futile. Other editor has continued to edit since being notified and after being pinged here without making an opening statement. Participation here is not required as participation in content dispute resolution is always voluntary. Consider a request for comments if additional community input into the dispute is desired, or consider obtaining a Third Opinion if only two editors are involved in the dispute; neither requires participation by the other disputant. — TransporterMan (TALK) 13:12, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Jennifer Rubin (journalist)

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Jennifer Rubin (journalist) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Cwobeel (talk · contribs)
• Factchecker atyourservice (talk · contribs)
• Malerooster (talk · contribs)
• Sean.hoyland (talk · contribs)
• Sepsis II (talk · contribs)
• brewcrewer (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

There is an unresolved dispute about critical material about this person. Involved editors have been reverting each other over past several weeks.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Requested feedback at the BLP/N - Talk page discussion Talk:Jennifer_Rubin_(journalist)#Very_serious_POV_problems

How do you think we can help?

By providing moderation in te discussion to identify common ground and arrive at a compromise.

Summary of dispute by Factchecker atyourservice

Summary of dispute by Malerooster

Summary of dispute by Sean.hoyland

Thanks for the invite but my involvement there is limited to reverting site banned racist psychopath Grawp/Misplaced Pages:Long-term abuse/JarlaxleArtemis, someone who has issued countless threats of violence and been disrupting Misplaced Pages for 10 years. They are probably the single worst offender in Misplaced Pages's history. Why they are not in prison or a psychiatric ward given that their identity is known is a bit puzzling. I have no interest in the article or any content issues. I understand from Factchecker atyourservice here that sledgehammer-like reverts may cause collateral damage, at least in their view, which is entirely possible, but I'm assuming editors who are actually interested in the content can cover that. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Sepsis II

This is a common problem around ARBPIA articles, one editor tries to whitewash it, I restore and inform the whitewasher why their edits are inappropriate, they violate BLP by posting insults to notable writers, no one cares as the target isn't anti-Palestine, brewcrewer reverts me as he often stalks my edits, the whitewasher continues to not listen, then they go to boards. Sepsis II (talk) 23:57, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by brewcrewer

Jennifer Rubin (journalist) discussion

Administrative note: Dear Cwobeel (talk · contribs), if you wish to move forward with this case at DRN, you will need to close the discussion at WP:BLPN. Please post a note here when you have done that. Also, what is the critical content that is under dispute? Please specify this in your case summary above. Thank you.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:57, 3 July 2014 (UTC)(DRN volunteer coordinator)

Closed the BLP/N discussion as requested. The disputed material is on this diff. It is about the critical responses generated by an article authored by Rubin for Commentary Magazine, criticism on comments Rubin made in the wake of the 2011 Norway attacks, and controversy about Rubin's accusing the Occupy Wall Street movement of antisemitism. - Cwobeel (talk) 18:46, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

OK, good. Have all of the WP editors listed above been notified that there is a DRN case and that they are invited to participate?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:47, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

It appears that all of the parties listed have been notified but Aua was very active in the thread you specified as being the core issue and he/she is not listed. Can add and notify him/her please?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Just saw this! Can't believe I almost missed it.

I apologize in advance for being a tad slow in posting my opinion over the next couple of days because real-life is keeping me away from WP, but I'd be happy to make a statement the soonest I'm able to.

Cheers, Λuα 23:20, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Bob's Burgers

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Bob's Burgers (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• ChrisP2K5 (talk · contribs)
• EvergreenFir (talk · contribs)
• Fyrael (talk · contribs)
• Mosfetfaser (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

There is a debate going on concerning the setting of the show. I have provided information from the creator of the show saying there's no definite setting. Two other editors have claimed there is a definitive setting, in spite of this, and have linked to several articles by other people opining that it's New Jersey. They claim that since the info comes after the interview, they're right. I say that the word of the show's creator must stand until otherwise proven wrong, which opinion does not do.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

A report was filed by EvergreenFir at AIV and 3RR against me, and I filed an ANI report against him/her due to what I perceived as inappropriate conduct. I offered two compromises to include the information about New Jersey as the theoretical information it was, while keeping the factual data intact. This was rejected as they insist opinion be counted as fact. For the record, here is the interview. Note the response given in the first question.

How do you think we can help?

By definitively declaring one way or the other whether fact should be overridden by opinion.

Summary of dispute by EvergreenFir

See the following for past discussions: AN3 closed by EdJohnston, a request for page unprotection closed by Ymblanter, and Talk:Bob's Burgers#Location. The talk page lays out the arguments for and against the New Jersey issue.

ChrisP2K5 has been engaging in a battle on Bob's Burgers and the associated talk page for a few days now. They only began dialogue once templated for edit warring and vandalism. ChrisP2K5 is convinced they are correct and is unwilling to compromise (calling it acquiescing and that there's nothing to compromise about ). ChrisP2K5 appear to suffer an acute case of WP:TRUTH (at least what they believe to be true; as seen in their answer to "How do you think we can help?" above) and does not understand WP:RS. Despite multiple recent reliable sources and an aired episode placing the location of the show in New Jersey, ChrisP2K5 keeps going back to an old interview with the show's creator evoking a reverse "word of god" argument. They have claimed the newer sources are not RS (despite editorial oversight), OR, and somehow citing an episode and/or having a link to a screencap on the talk page is COPYVIO. I've offered compromise (), getting called a WP:RANDY for it () and having my COMPETENCE called into question. ChrisP2K5 is so stubborn that this DRN is their last resort when it should have been their first.

Despite what they say, they have not offered compromise once until today. The original compromise was Fyrael's to which ChrisP2K5 replied "As far as I'm concerned, it's open and shut. This whole charade is useless." Even Mosfetfaser, who did everything they could to BOOMERANG me on the AN3, agreed with the compromise to which ChrisP2K5 replies "I do not support that because it still allows the false and misleading information onto the page."

Frankly I am surprised this editor is still unblocked. I haven't been a perfect editor in this incident, but I've tried to put my annoyance aside and compromise to build a better encyclopedia and for it I've been insulted repeatedly and told over a dozen times I'm plain wrong. Now that ChrisP2K5 has no options left, they appear to have come to DRN to at least get their way partially. Any other less experienced editor would have been blocked by now for being extremely disruptive and WP:NOTHERE. For a user that's been here much longer than I have, I am appalled. But it's clear from their user talk page they have a history of this sort of behavior. I am frankly extremely tempted to do nothing, let the PP expire, and watch ChrisP2K5 continue the to edit war and edit against consensus and be subsequently blocked. (I would have been much happier to compromise days ago, or even yesterday but the ANI report, false statements in the above statement, and subsequent behavior have burned a few bridges). But if the other involved editors want to come to some agreement, I'll follow suit since that's the right thing to do. Hopefully my mood will improve. PS - Part of my grump today is that a family died yesterday and we're going to her funeral this weekend instead of to the park with her like we planned. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Fyrael

It's a bit hard to believe that this has come to a dispute resolution, but here are the primary points as I see them (I have posted basically the same summary on the talk page):

• The show's creator gave an interview as linked in the description above that talks about the shows setting. He places it firmly in the Northeast, but aside from that implies that the location is a mystery. Notably, he does not say that the location is intentionally ambiguous. He describes it as a "semi-Springfield", which could mean lots of things.
• In the season after this interview, the show itself displays a map showing the Belchers leaving their home in New Jersey to go on a trip. If this happened before the interview that would be a different story, but it happened after.
• In multiple sources provided by user EvergreenFir, the setting of the show is mentioned as being New Jersey. I believe that at least two of the sources qualify as WP:RS: and

I had at one point suggested approximate wording that would include both the creator's description and the new information and I still think it's not a bad idea, but I see nothing wrong with the current wording, which says "in an indeterminate New Jersey shore town" (yes, this entire dispute is over those seven words somehow). -- Fyrael (talk) 22:06, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Mosfetfaser

I did not try to "do everything I could to boomerang" User:EvergreenFir war report, the admin also noted that both users were warring and he could either block them both or protect the page, he chose to protect the page, my discussion there was to help EFir to see his warring and so to notice his violation also and the hypocrisy of reporting someone for warring when he himself was warring. Read that story here https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=&diff=prev&oldid=615231718#User:ChrisP2K5_reported_by_User:EvergreenFir_.28Result:_Protected.29

The content dispute. I said on the talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Bob%27s_Burgers&diff=615259663&oldid=615254968 I support an inclusive position of both stories as per User:Fryael - We can just say specifically that (in 'add year here') the creator labeled the setting as a "semi Springfield" ambiguous East coast town, but that the show itself has since indicated a possible New Jersey locale. Mosfetfaser (talk) 04:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Bob's Burgers discussion

I would like to submit that EvergreenFir is incorrect and exaggerating. Like Mosfetfaser said, he/she was not being boomeranged, just being called on for not acknowledging his/her edit warring (I still do not agree with the assessment that this was an edit war in the first place). The sources that he/she and Fyrael submit, while legitimate, do not offer any irrefutable factual data to contradict my source. They are opinions of writers and should be treated as such. It would be as if I found an opinion piece that Cheers is set in New York. Since the creators of the show set it in Boston and that was established by them just like Loren Bouchard has done with Bob's Burgers, I can't present that opinion piece as fact. I can present it as theory and opinion, but not fact. Just like any of the sources they cite because the creator has established a setting. I've told EvergreenFir he/she is wrong because the definitive source contradicts his/her position. The link to EvergreenFir's "compromise" is actually his/her response to one of the two I offered and stated relatively clearly that he/she will not consider my source, the show's creator, and restore the unverifiable opinions. That's when I filed the ANI report because it became clear to me that this was becoming less about my source and more about me personally (my past history isn't relevant to this discussion at all). When I used the term "acquiescing" it was in response to EvergreenFir's declaration of unilateral action. To me, that was demanding I adopt his/her position. I also never said citing the episode was COPYVIO. I said that the episode never mentioned New Jersey (and it didn't) and that attempting to use the screencap as a source was COPYVIO because it was lifted from something that didn't belong to whoever captured it.

The way I see it, I have done more than enough to support my argument with facts and they have not done enough to refute it with facts. Which is why I consider it open and shut. I offered a compromise where the opinions are noted as they are alongside the factual data I have, but no mention of any specific setting. When this was rejected in favor of keeping the opinions as facts, I offered to even write a secondary section with the theories, noting one in particular where the opining writer went to great lengths to make his deductively reasoned opinion that I found interesting. Again, this was rejected in keeping the opinions as facts. I don't know what else to do because EvergreenFir is clearly not acting in good faith and Fyrael and I are too far apart on resolving this issue. I am sorry for EvergreenFir's loss and wish his/her family the best in these trying times, but that's not an excuse for his/her conduct. --ChrisP2K5 (talk) 07:08, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Please no response or further discussion here until a DRN volunteer opens the case. Thank you -- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC) (DRN volunteer Coordinator)

Fresh Start: Core of the dispute

This case is now open. I'm letting everyone know in advance I will not tolerate any further discussion or comments about past actions or editor behavior. We are here to discuss content only. First let's establish the core of the dispute: The concern is over the location or setting of the TV show Bob's Burgers which is currently represented as:

• The show centers on the Belcher family, who run a hamburger restaurant on Ocean Avenue in an indeterminate New Jersey shore town, according to series creator Loren Bouchard. cite episode | title=It Snakes A Village | series=Bob's Burgers | network=Fox Broadcasting Company | airdate=March 24, 2013 | season=3 | number=18 | episodelink=It Snakes a Village

Is that correct? -- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:55, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Keithbob - Correct. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:15, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Do other parties agree this is the core of the dispute? -- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:05, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is. -- Fyrael (talk) 21:13, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

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