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	Lolicon was one of the Art and architecture good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 14, 2006 Articles for deletion Speedily kept December 13, 2007 Good article nominee Listed July 3, 2010 Articles for deletion Speedily kept February 15, 2011 Good article reassessment Delisted March 12, 2011 Good article reassessment Not listed Current status: Delisted good article

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Archives

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17

This page has archives. Sections older than 28 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Definition, genre characteristics and meaning outside Japan.

I've been thinking that this is not a good division. A definition and characteristics are one in the same. This just makes it more confusing. The current division just makes it unclear what's what. What makes the difference between a "definition" and a "genre".

Also, I'm not sure if we should be mentioning works with relatively little sourcing here or on their page unless its clear there's overwhelming evidence they are lolicon artists by either self admission or more than 1 person's take for BLP concern. It very well could be a contentious label if they don't consider themselves to be and would be removed. I am talking mostly about Weekly Dearest My Brother which doesn't seem to claim from the text that it is labeled as actual lolicon and she is non-notable person. The others may be MPOV BLP issues since its only 1 source claiming all of those are such.

IMO the sections should be merged and divided into "defition and genre" with a subsections for "In Japan" and "Outside Japan". The info should be resorted (as it seems somewhat redundant) and the specific series references in the second section should be removed...atleast the one not by Darling.∞陣内Jinnai 03:37, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

There's no citation for this: "In the 1980s, lolicon manga became widely available in a number of anthology pornographic manga magazines. In 1989, a serial killer was found to be a devoted lolicon fan, creating a moral panic and calls for regulation of manga." What serial killer? Where? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.49.156.14 (talk) 22:13, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Removed them from the intro, I think it's too specific to be there. It is already on History section, including the killer (Tsutomu Miyazaki?). pmt7ar 06:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

This is late but I want to add, マンション ('manshon') means big apartment in japanese, but obviously isn't that meaning elsewhere. On the Japanese wiki this would be its meaning but here it's clearly not classified as a 'large apartment'. The same goes for lolicon. Japan is one of THE most egregious offenders when it comes to creating false friends, so a debate about keeping the 'original' meaning of the japanese word seems hypocritical in that regard, especially if you see other, less controversial terms like 'Hentai' (which have a very different meaning in the West and in Japan). All modern languages are/were composites (there are no living languages today that don't at least have some loanwords from other languages); Japanese itself borrows words from Chinese which look identical but have vastly different meanings (勉強 comes to mind). Languages do not 'own' meanings any more than Japanese owned anything in the first place to begin with (or English for that matter). θvξrmagξ 06:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

1990s

The section has never been completed. Gravitoweak (talk) 00:11, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Picture

Why does this article have a picture? This seems totally inappropriate and unnecessary. Tiggum (talk) 03:32, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

The image is clearly there to show, and describe with its caption, what lolicon looks like. I'm sure that most of our readers are not familiar with manga or anime, the typical styles used for those artworks. But you are not the first to complain about that picture; see Talk:Lolicon/Archive 15#Child Porn? Flyer22 (talk) 03:47, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOTCENSORED, the picture helps the article as it shows what lolicon is, just as Vagina or Penis (To name two) have pictures showing what they are. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:02, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

I feel everything, including the picture, is trying to make "lolicon" synonymous with "pedophile". I completely disagree with this. Many materials involving lolicons portray them as people who want to keep loli characters pure and protect them, rather than sexually assault them. A pedophile is the exact opposite of what a lolicon is. A lolicon finds a loli cute and seeks to preserve them in that state for as long as they can, where a pedophile finds them sexually attractive and seeks to violate, corrupt, and sexually assault them. It may be true that a lolicon finds a loli attractive, but not always in a sexual sense, more of a fatherly love. This does not mean there are no cases where a lolicon would be sexually attracted to a loli, but a lolicon would never assault a loli, that goes against what it means to be a lolicon. I would also like to point out that the majority of loli characters are MUCH older than 14 years old. ---Ruckkus 10/23/2013 207.254.244.56 (talk) 20:50, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

The article, including the picture, is not "trying to make 'lolicon' synonymous with 'pedophile'." It has a Definition section, for example, that makes clear what a pedophile is and is not. Yes, the article also addresses child sexual abuse and the legal status of cartoon pornography depicting minors, but that is because various WP:Reliable sources discuss those matters with regard to lolicon. Those matters do not necessarily equate to pedophilia. Pedophilia is about the mental aspect (primarily or exclusively sexually desiring a prepubescent child); child sexual abuse is about actually acting on such sexual desires.

Also, properly sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Misplaced Pages talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. I properly signed your username (as the IP) for you above. Flyer22 (talk) 21:22, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

All manga and anime lolicon is cartoon pornography?

SqueakBox, with regard to this edit, I'm not sure that all manga and anime lolicon is cartoon pornography. And, after all, there is the pornography debate in this article. And with regard to this image request you made, see the section immediately above this one about whether or not that image is pornographic. I'll alert Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Anime and manga and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Hentai to these matters so that they might comment on them. Flyer22 (talk) 17:58, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Going directly after the definition it is not. Works of lolicon might be innocent to erotic up to pornographic, but they are definitely not exclusively pornographic. --／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ 署名の宣言 18:30, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

About that, Niabot (／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼), someone might want to tweak the current definition of cartoon pornography in the Cartoon pornography article since the only criteria it gives is "erotic or sexual situations." Flyer22 (talk) 18:45, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

The reference to cartoon pornography is referring to the depictions of lolicon manga or lolicon anime as "erotic-cute" and that makes it soft pornography, that is my edit isnt claiming that all lolicon is pornography. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 19:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, your edit is about the manga and anime aspect of lolicon, not the other things that lolicon refers to; that is why I addressed the manga and anime aspect of lolicon in my initial post above in this section. The sentence is currently presented in a way that makes it seem as though all manga and anime lolicon is cartoon pornography; it states: It is also commonly used when referring to lolicon manga or lolicon anime, a genre of manga and anime cartoon pornography where childlike female characters are often depicted in an "erotic-cute" manner (also known as ero kawaii), in an art style reminiscent of the shōjo manga (girls' comics) style. Flyer22 (talk) 19:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Also see what Niabot stated above about "erotic" not necessarily meaning "pornographic." Flyer22 (talk) 19:29, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Just have a look at the current image inside the lolicon article. It does not fall under pornography and is drawn in a typical style for anime and manga. Actually there are quite a lot of works that belong to the lolicon genre, but are not pornographic or even erotic at all. The current wording suggests that all manga or anime depicting so called "lolis" would be pornographic. Some examples are Kodomo no Jikan, Ro-Kyu-Bu!, Astarotte no Omocha! and so on. --／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ 署名の宣言 22:06, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I am very opening to changing the wording but would like to see the cartoon pornography article linked to still, if we can manage that♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 00:34, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I undid your edit for now, if you can place the link someplace in the article explaining how some lolicon are not porn while others are or that sort then go ahead just I do not see it belonging in the lead. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:52, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Definition of "lolicon" as "all-underage girls", including pubescent and post-pubescent?

Do we have any sources for this definition? JackALope044 (talk) 16:16, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree here, it seems like lolicon was lumped together with three different age groups , there are tons of anime and manga that are not labeled as lolicon that have some sort of nudity with girls aged 16 - 17. Saying that manga and anime that have this as being lolicon is WP:OR and would require a source. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:10, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I dispute this addition you made. It makes it seem as though lolicon is solely about prepubescent girls. The sources don't seem to indicate simply "prepubescent." And the main image that is up there now looks to be depicting early pubescent girls, judging by the breast development. If the sources state "underage," which some of them do, then it's reasonable to think that "underage" includes pubescents and post-pubescents (especially since people usually mean pubescent or post-pubescent minors when they state "underage," such as "underage drinking," not a prepubescent child). And the lead and lead image caption currently state, respectively, "childlike female characters" and "childlike characteristics with erotic undertones"; since "childlike" usually means something that is not a child, but is rather childlike, those statements seem to indicate that lolicon characters are typically pubescent or post-pubescent with childlike features. And regarding this bit you removed, that was there per the Kinds of lolicon discussion. In that edit summary, you stated, "Removed definition of sexual attraction to young people, it fits but not quite I do not see a source within this that talks about lolicon in any way rather it just gives a broad definition." So I don't see how adding "prepubescent" is an improvement. Furthermore, that is just as much a WP:OR matter if there are no WP:Reliable sources out there supporting it. But I agree that we should have sources in that section focusing on lolicon definitions instead of definitions regarding pedophilia, hebephilia and ephebophilia, even though addressing the latter three can help people better understand lolicon.

I might take this matter to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Anime and manga. Flyer22 (talk) 23:55, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

You keep saying "The sources" what sources? Where does it say in reliable sources that lolicon includes females aged X - X? That is where the problem lies. You are taking definitions, laying them up in this article and saying okay... everything under <blank> falls under lolicon because lolicon is this and it matches what such and such says. If that were true then someone watching lets say Rosario + Vampire which has a young witch character in it must be a lolicon. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:14, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

The article needs sources that talk about lolicon not underage sexual attraction in general or a definition of it, that is what I meant by they are similar but where is the line drawn when it comes to lolicon? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:31, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

: Regarding sources, I stated, "The sources don't seem to indicate simply 'prepubescent.'" And "that is just as much a WP:OR matter if there are no WP:Reliable sources out there supporting it. But I agree that we should have sources in that section focusing on lolicon definitions." That is all I stated with regard to sources. And I was referring to the article. No, I am not "taking definitions, laying them up in this article and saying okay... everything under <blank> falls under lolicon because lolicon is this and it matches what such and such says." The lead states, in part, "The term lolicon is a portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita complex"; it describes an attraction to underage girls, an individual with such an attraction." See how it uses the word underage and is backed to four different sources), and yet you used the word prepubescent? I see prepubescent supported by the third source (Feitelberg), but it does not state that lolicon solely focuses on prepubescents, and if the other sources state "prepubescent," then why does the lead use the word underage; the word underage is not synonymous with the word prepubescent.

And, okay, I'll go ahead and alert Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Anime and manga to this discussion now. Flyer22 (talk) 00:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Take the wording prepubescent out then if that is the hangup. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:39, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for removing "prepubescent." Do you think that this discussion would benefit from the input of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Anime and manga, so that perhaps someone from there can give a more specific outline of the age ranges? Flyer22 (talk) 00:45, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

It would help to get a second opinion but if we are going to include age ranges I think we should try to source it as it really gets in the gray area on what is lolicon and what is not the older you go. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:59, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Per what I stated above, I agree about only mentioning specific age ranges (prepubescent, pubescent and/or post-pubescent) if that wording is supported by one or more WP:Reliable sources in the article. I've alerted the aforementioned WikiProject. Flyer22 (talk) 01:25, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Okay and thanks, I may be wrong here but for example I have never heard of a anime or manga that had post-pubescent females in it that was pushed as a lolicon. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:48, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Just my two cents here, the reason I brought this up is because there didn't seem to be any reliable sources defining the age range of "lolicon" - I don't think that the age-range should come from original research, or what we, as editors, "feel" the age-range should be. We can go back and forth on what we "think" the age-range should be, but I don't think this matters unless we have reliable sources defining it for us. JackALope044 (talk) 16:57, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

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