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==Automatic delete candidates== ==Automatic delete candidates==

Revision as of 16:11, 4 August 2006

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Deletion Sorting
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to India. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion
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  2. You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|India|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
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You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to India. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.
Further information
For further information see Misplaced Pages's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.


Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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Automatic delete candidates

(PROD-tagged) pages, culled from Category:Proposed deletion

Dated: August 03, 2006

Dated: August 02, 2006

Dated: August 01, 2006

Dated: July 30, 2006

Dated: July 29, 2006

Dated: July 28, 2006

Ongoing deletion debates

Proposed deletions, culled from WP:AFD
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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 11:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Discourses by Thakur Anukulchandra and Messages of Thakur Anukulchandra

Source material. Wikisource probably won't take them but User:Sawantve is strongly encouraged to put this stuff on their own website and link to it from the Thakur Anukulchandra article. -- RHaworth 17:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 11:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Leafgrafica, Graphic Design Studio, Bangalore

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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Sudhakara Chaturvedi

Looks to me like an advertisement for a service, and very incoherent at that. Bp28 10:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)Wow! Article has been MAJORLY cleaned up, actually makes sense now, and definitely seems notable enough -- scholar born in 1897 with direct ties to Mahatma Gandhi. I'd like to withdraw my AfD nomination if possible, or at the very least my vote. This seemed incredibly like some sort of odd advertisement before (including even a contact address!), but is completely different in its current state, and I no longer feel it should be deleted. Bp28 19:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete as above, it even includes a contact address! I get 6 unique Google hits, and those mostly appear to be someone else with the same name. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 11:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete unless expanded and sourced. If he genuinely is a direct disciple of Swamy Shraddhanand then he may have some notability.
Weak Keep the rewrite. Expand the notability claim? Dlyons493 Talk 12:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete (Liberatore, 2006). 17:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Rural India

Not notable Gamesmaster G-9 23:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Sango123 03:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Brahmin influence on other religions

Delete as a straight-up WP:NOR violation - CrazyRussian talk/email 05:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete. Completely unsourced, and rather unnotable. Although, I wouldn't object to a properly cited article on the subject if one were made. tmopkisn 06:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. It is disjointed, unsourced, POV, ethnocentric and has not been improved in any manner despite many attempts to get contributors to subscribe to WP guidelines for contributions and is descending into warring edits over non-compliant material.--Tigeroo 08:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as original research and a soapbox for touting a personal point of view on things in essay form. Byrgenwulf 09:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Do not Delete. This article is not ethnocentric as the chauvinistic neo-Buddhists are trying are convince Misplaced Pages authorities it is. The neo-Buddhists are always insaulting Brahmins for the dissapearence of Buddhism in India and when Brahmins show how much historical Brahmins have contributed, the neo-Buddhists try to cover it up from history. If the case is that this article is unsourced I can source everything, but this article has to remain to show the world the jealousy of the neo-Buddhists. -- maleabroad

  • This article needs to be deleted. It is clearly evident that this article has been put up with a complete political agenda. there is no encyclopaedic value of this article.--Yeditor 13:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak delete. Original research, POV, and unbalanced, e.g. it utterly ignores the fact that non-Hindu religious traditions have sometimes been critical of Brahminical Hinduism in practice. There might be an interesting article in here, but this isn't it. Anirvan 18:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 02:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Sree Kerala Varma college, Thrissur

Nominating this article as unsuitable for the english version of wikipedia. I think this is a school in India, although it's hard to verify that seeing as I could find no homepage for the school. Delete. Stubbleboy 01:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Please note: This article has been moved from Sree Kerala Varma college, Thrissur to Sree Kerala Varma college
Stubbleboy 00:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
It is a collge, not a university. Tintin (talk) 04:44, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Mailer Diablo 01:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Origin of some common Hindustani words

Instead of leaping immediately to delete, I had proposed merging this article with Hindi (see the discussion about why and the results at theHindi talk page). The consensus of was that this article ought not to be merged into the Hindi article. That brings me to this nomination. This article, Origin of some common Hindustani words, is indiscriminate as it provides no basis for what words are to be included on the list and which are not. There is no similar article for any other language that I could find (other than a few pages about words English has borrowed from other languages). They might be out there, but I did not see any. There is also no article on Most common words in Hindustani for this article to support. Anything in this article is more than adequately covered in the history and vocabulary sections of the main Hindi article without any need to refer to this article. I am also concerned about this article being original research. Finally, I am wondering about proper copyright authorization because of the odd line in the article, "The derivations below are based on posts by Yashwant Malaiya, and are given here by his consent". No verification of this is provided anywhere. Agent 86 01:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete as[REDACTED] is not an etymological dictionary. -- Koffieyahoo 02:03, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. This article is very useful and is in the process of expansion. It is also the Main Article for the Vocabulary Sections of the Hindustani, Hindi, and Urdu pages. Before reading this article, I had never knew the information provided here. I would highly recommend keeping this article. Thank you very much all. AbdulQadir 05:57, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This article is properly referenced to Dr. Yashwant Malaiya, Professor at Colorado State University,Fort Collins, CO, USA. as well as other sources (see the References section). He is also a Misplaced Pages editor. (see his userpage: User:Malaiya. I am also working on expanding this article and adding new information to it. This is a very helpful article. Please keep it. Thank you in advance. --Zulfikkur 06:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep What Agent 86 forgot to mention was that the reason most people did not accept the merge is because they felt that it would be a good standalone article and main article for the Vocabulary section on the Hindi page. (Please see Talk:Hindi) Three out of four individuals on the talk page wanted to keep the article as a sepate page! I think this should be acknowledged. The article is also well referenced and well written. Topics covered in Origin of some common Hindustani words are not covered in history. These articles deal with totally different things. This article is also the main article for the vocabulary sections of three pages: Hindi, Hindustani, and Urdu. Also, this article is being worked on currently by myslef and other Wikipedians. I would very much appreciate if you kept this worthy article. Patel24 07:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak keep, but wants a better title. An entire Hindustani etymological dictionary, or even a fairly representative subset of such a dictionary, probably is beyond the scope of the project, and unhelpful to users on the English encyclopedia. But move this to Sources of the Hindustani lexicon or some similar name, and it probably wouldn't be here. Smerdis of Tlön 19:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Articles that give insight into different languarges are extremely important. Think of all the English crud on Misplaced Pages. Interest in other languages should be encouraged, as should the people who write them. GrapePie 19:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Transwiki to various individual entries on Wiktionary and delete. Misplaced Pages is not the place for this information; Wiktionary is. User:Angr 20:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. This is a very valuable article. It should be kept becaus it is the main page for the Vocabulary sections of Hindustani, Urdu, and Hindi. Also Agent 86 did not mention that Professor Yashwant Malaiya (the individual whom the article is referenced to) himslef is the author of the article (see )He used his other professional Hindi collegiate level sites as his source for the article. I took a look at the article and it was very lucid and interesting. I am going to help by developing this article even more so. It would be a shame if this article was deleted. Please keep this article. Khuda Hafiz. Jdas07 22:31, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Please re-read my nomination discussion. I did in fact note that the article claimed material was "based on posts by Yashwant Malaiya"; however, there was (and still is) no notice on the article's talk page that copyright authorization had been granted or that "Yashwant Malaiya" and Malaiya are one and the same (nor is there any indication on Malaiya's user/talk page. Of course, that means there still may be an issue with original research, but that's besides the point. ;-) Agent 86 23:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Sat Sri Akal. It seems like the wide consensus here is to keep the article. I, myself, looked over the article and feel that it is a good and worthy one. I also agree with the other opinions of those who wish to preserve the article. In the near future, I also hope to add to the article. Dhanyavaad Singhman
  • Keep The article is well worth keeping. Yeah. 70.104.119.81 23:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, but rename. The title is nonspecific, and should be an article on the evolution of Hindi words with some used as examples. The exmamples shouldn't define the article's name. So rename it Hindi-Urdu word etymology and discuss the relevant factors there with some examples and references. - Taxman 19:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 02:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Dav boys school gopalapuram

Advertisement, fails NPOV, no assertion of notability. BoojiBoy 03:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Note I moved the page to it's correct title at DAV Boys Senior Secondary School. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete.--SB | T 07:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Q Ashfaq Ahmad

It doesn't appear to me that, outside of a small local community, this individual bears the noteworthiness for a wiki. The data hasn't been updated since April 2006, the links are broken, and there are no wikis for the local organizations this guy is identified with. Delete. -- Dyslexic agnostic 13:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete Vanity article. Not notable outside the muslim community in sydney. Has not won any community service award in Australia. Very few google hits. --Ageo020 21:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
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The result was keep, despite nonsense from socks, there's enough evidence that he meets WP:BIO according to the arguments -- Samir धर्म 01:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Pradip Somasundaran

  ATTENTION!

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May fail WP:BIO and seems pretty certainly to conflict with WP:VAIN Seidenstud 15:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment. I no longer believe this is a hoax, but it's still not meeting WP:BIO per nom. alphaChimp 17:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. I'm just going to go with my original vote. After considering the many sock arguments, I just cannot see any significant notability emerging (other than "he is a hero to the karala people"). The sockpuppets and personal attacks have to stop. It's getting a little ridiculous. alphaChimp 14:51, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Alpha. Do not take a hasty decision. All are not socks. Many admins and some like jyothis are genuine editors who are from malayalam wiki.I may be new here but have sincere intentions and am here to expand the music section with many more articles on singers of kerala (Already started one on Gayatri Asokan). Jyothis has given many more links to clear the notability issue. Also please could you explain why this should be deleted? You already might have known that he is a hero for the kerala people. If so he should be notable! The huge response is natural as he has a big fan following in kerala. There are also some other people like Amit Sana who have an article. Why are you all silent on the many comments on amit's article? Sock or no sock you should have a reason. somasundaran's article satisfies so many wiki guidelines while only one is required to qualify it. So what is the problem here? Anyway jyothis has come out with so many links to prove credibility, notability and verifiability(see down). You can also ask him (anyone) to improve or modify the article.Also understand that the section on playback singers from kerala is very weak. Don't we need to improve it? Also seems the so called pradipsomasundaran who wrote the article first was just a fan who was after some fun and is no more on this scene. But fact remains that he has just managed to bring this unnessary controversy by putting up a half baked article in the first place. But we feel that this wonderful artist should not be disgraced further due to this imposter's mistakes and by people such as Angeo who seem to have stooped to low levels of personal attacks. That's why all are pained. This has become a fight for dignity for all of us from Kerala. Also now the article has some dignity and now the vanity issues should not be insisted as the original editor has run away. Please remember that we are all judging on a wonderful singer in his absence!The only way we can end this seemingly unending ridiculous war is stopping this on a good note with dignity restored for the singer.But we should give praise to all who managed to bring up so many information on the singer. Let's take all relevant and useful info and use it to put up a good article instead of turning a blind eye to their efforts.

Latest news of Pradip Somasundaran performing in a Music and Dance festival of National Repute Where the Best in India Participate-Swaralaya-2006

If he was not notable then he would not be participating in such a reputed program in kerala! I feel like a fool in having to show you such links to make you and others believe that pradip is one of the most popular singers of Kerala who is very very busy. (Are the knowledge of the respectable Admin's in Music and Musicians of Kerala worth it?) What more is there to prove?? --Gluewhale 09:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The above link will prove the contention on "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pradipsomasundaran (talk • contribs)

Comment. You might want to read WP:BIO in regard to your case. Are there any notable newspapers attesting to you? alphaChimp 17:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete the singer may have won the trophy but its not a trophy well known to other indians. Some of the famous singing competitions at that time were'Sa re Ga Ma' and 'Antakshiri' which were not won by this guy. Also no professional fame was acquired by this guy. Also I have not heard of any notable film songs sung by this guy in malayalam or tamil. --Ageo020 21:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Comment I just deleted 2 "votes" that were from the same IP: 59.93.32.243, the first one of which contained abusive ad hominem aspects. Can anyone confirm or deny if this IP is a sock of Pradipsomasundaran? The reason I ask is that the two users (anon IP and registered) happen to be the two users who are responsible for the authorship of the article in question. -Seidenstud 02:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Comment: Seidenstud, an IP is not a sock puppet. --HResearcher 10:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Do not delete: It is pitiable that the person above who has commented on winning "antakshari" does not realize that antakshari is a musical game and not a (singing)talent scouting competition. Pradip did win the Meri Awaz Suno singing competition and has been singing for many movies consistently down south from then groomed by none other than the Great music director Late Shree Raveendran.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Andholanam (talk • contribs)
  • Do not delete : Mr Pradeep Somasundaram is a genuine singer and he has won several prestigious prizes. He is well know person in Kerala and to the whole of Malayali community which comes to millions world-wide. I myself was a witness to many of his achievements.Please do not delete as some ignorant person has posted some wrong information about him.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dotcompals (talk • contribs)
  • Do not deletePradip Somasundaran or also spelt as pradeep somasundaram has sung many songs, even for Illaiyaraja!
He has many albums too in malayalam. Does many T.V programs too.
has sung for 1) ravindran 2) johnson 3) vidyadharan 4) mohan Sitara 5) kaithapram
6) Balabhaskar
Some links to his credit
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/ http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/m/singer.2808/
http://www.kalakeralam.com/music/playback.htm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0355735/combined
http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/03/stories/2006010303880300.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2005/01/07/stories/2005010718020300.htm
http://www.thehindu.com/2005/10/02/stories/2005100206690400.htm
http://www.raaga.com/channels/malayalam/movie/M0000374.html
Manjeera Dhwani. Language. Malayalam. Director. Bharathan. Year Of Release. 1998. SongID. SongName. Singers. :SG002533, Mohini Enikkae, Pradeep Somasundaram ...
raajangahm.com/ric/film/FL001011.html - 4k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
He is also a FSF supporter and linux enthusist! http://gnowledge.org/pipermail/fsf-india/2001-July/001564.html
He is a very famous personality in Kearla! We do not want his article deleted! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.32.28 (talk • contribs)
  • DO NOT DELETE Pradip Somasundram has indeed won the contest mentioned and is well known in the Malayalam Music scene. His other professional commitments do not allow him to be a full time singer, that does not take away his merit as a singer of repute.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.154.12.174 (talk • contribs)
  • Do not delete :Pradeep Somasundaram from kerala, was the first one who achieved the Lata mangeshkar award for the program " Meri awaz suno".It was the first ever popular hindi music show conducted throughout the whole year by the TV channel Doordarshan. Famous hindi play back singer Sunidhi Chauhan introduced to films only after winning the title of Meri awaz Suno " along with Pradeep Somasundaram.
Pradeep has won several awards on music and he sings in Hindi,Tamil,Malayalam etc.
The following links shows his authenticity.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/02/13/stories/2003021300960400.htm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0355735/combined
http://en.wikipedia.org/Sunidhi_Chauhan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.144.73.89 (talk • contribs)
Comment I believe this guy is genuine. But I don't think he has achieved enough fame to merit a[REDACTED] article. The links provided which go the newspaper The Hindu were verified by me. Some of the article just mentions his name with a long list of other singers which just say that he is going to sing at this function/festival/programme. Also the IMDB article mentions that he has just sung for one film which is Manasam. Some of the singers which this page has mentioned such as Sunidhi Chauhan have sung in many fims/albums. Also they are known throughout India.
Furthermore, some of the comments mentions that he has worked with well known music directors such as Kaithapram and Ravindran. Google shows absolutely no hits regarding this. Google hits must not be used as a basis for an article but it could mean PS has worked with them in one movie or a song.

Finally, Pradeep Somasundaran's google hits show it to be 901. But on further inspection, there are just about a dozen sites which really mention this guy. --Ageo020 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Do Not Delete Pradip Somasundaran is genuine, very much so! 'Meri Awaaz Suno' was probably the first every Indian TV competition for singing talents and was endorsed by the likes of Yash Chopra. This show was hosted by Anu Kapur, and was one of the very few popular programmes on Doordarshan at the time. It is true that Pradip did not get a major break in the Hindi music scene, even after being a clear winner on a national stage. However, he has worked with some of the great music directors in south indian languages like Ravindran and Ilayaraja.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.31.106 (talk • contribs)
Comment. I understand you desire to have an article on Misplaced Pages. How about just placing the article in your userspace and dropping the whole matter? It'll show up in people's google searches, giving you what you're looking for. You have yet to cite some notable news source asserting your significance. I'm thinking something like BBC, New York Times, etc - something Misplaced Pages users have heard of. As for flooding this AfD with anonymous opinions...it's just silly. Anybody can see through the pattern of edits. Quite frankly, your interests would have been best served by posting one clear, well written opinion regarding your notability. I'm just saying. alphaChimp 22:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I should probably qualify that post. Looking back on it, I'm not sure it was assuming good faith as much as I'd like. If you are really all separate editors, then it's great that you are expressing your opinions. The pattern, however, seemed to suggest the contrary. alphaChimp 22:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


  • Do Not Delete
Alpha Chimp,

With due respect for the pain the administrators and other wiki evangelists take to maintain this, Let me note my comments on the matter. let me state that we are not in here to fight, but to determine the credibility of the article and person in question. Please note the points below, that I would like to present for your kind perusal.

1. According to the WP:BIO,point 1, "The person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field ",
He is a noted playback singer of south india, who has won the prestigious national level singing competition, Meri awaz suno, conducted by the Indian government's official Television channel called Dooradarshan. The show was anchored by noted theator and film actor annu kapoor. he has sung in south indian movies and albums (I'm not listing it again, as people have already done a few above) and is recognized as a playback singer in the south indian film industry.
quoting the part under success stories in yashraj film's page on mary awaz suno,
"Pradeep Somasundaram (a mega final winner): Pradeep is an established artiste in the Malayalam music industry and has sung a number of songs in South India."
2. According to WP:BIO, point 4, "Widely recognized entertainment personalities and opinion makers"
On top of the above mentioned points, He has played an active part in the revolutionary online free music movement called blogswara , which is even compared to the opensource revolution in the computing world. He is a very popular figure in the public programs and musical functions alike. Also, he has been a guest in television shows in south india as well.
3.According to WP:BIO, point 6, "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by: Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers "
The Hindu is a national daily, which has showcased the artist in
a. , which says
"Nine singers, led by Pradeep Somasundaram and Gayatri brought alive nearly 28 songs, with a couple of drama songs also thrown in for variety."
b. which says
"On these days, from October 6-15, that is, the Navarathri season, Kairali provides two and a half hours of dance and music each day. Noted dancers and singers from all over India will take part in it. Some of them are Alarmel Valli, M Jayachandran, Pradeep Somasundaram, Chitra Iyer, Sarat, Gaurav MajumdarSudha Raghunathan, Padma Subramaniam, Lakshmi Gopalaswamy. There are other dance-dramas too. "
c. which says
`Technofest' begins at Thrissur
THRISSUR: `Technofest,' the annual State level cultural festival of the engineering college students, was inaugurated at the Thrissur Government Engineering College here on Friday by Lonappan Nambadan, MP. Singer Pradeep Somasundaram was the chief guest. The inauguration, scheduled to be held on Friday, was postponed following the death of a student of the college. As many as 2,500 students from 65 colleges are participating — Staff Reporter
d. First time malayalam podcasting service, podbazaar : has showcased the person. according to podbazaar, "Pradip Somasundaran needs no introduction for people from Kerala and for those who have heard/seen the first of its kind musical program Meri Aawaaz Suno in Dooradarshan some years back. He won Lata Mangeshkar award for the best Male singer. And the best female singer was Sunidhi Chauhan. Now he sings for the movies and albums. A great singer and a cool and humble person."


I disagree with Ageo's comment on the Saregama and Antakshari, as this program was the trendsetter, which set the stage for a lot talent search and musical programs, including Saregama, which appeared in the time followed in various channels in the country.
On these basis, I believe that it fits WP:BIO requirements and hence I request the wiki team to not to delete the article.


Thanks!
--Jyothis 00:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment I would like to disagree on some of the above points. This may seem like a wiki war but please bear with me.
1. If he is a noted playback singer, why does IMDB list only Manasam as his only credit. Being a notable singer, why does he only feature in only 3-4 articles in the Hindu. Why doesn't he come in other South Indian newspapers like Malayala Manorama, Deepika, Indian Express or Mathrubhumi. (please consider that this is not an attack on the reputation of the Hindu)
Answer: See here. http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/ This lists more songs. Still this is not complete

These have malayalam fonts and do not appear in searches. Simple fact! If you want more articles just on this person enough can be provided as he he performs all over the state.

IMDB is very unreliable for judging the significance of Malayalam film personalities. It may be used to argue that someone is notable, but never than someone is not. It lists five films for Baburaj and two for Dakshinamoorthy while the actual number is well over hundred for both.
2. Google hits on this guy are very few. A noted playback singer must generate atleast 1000 hits. Even though he has 901 hits, only 10-12 actually mention his name as a singer. The rest are just hits for the surname somasundaran.( sunidhi chauhan, PS's co-winner in MAS generates 160,000 hits)
Answer: See searching the name pradeep somasundaram. He is also listed in this name.This will give you another 900 odd results. Then the total make it almost 1800! So that will get you to your magic number of 1000. After all who brought this rule that a playback singer ought to have at least 1000 hits? Strange!
3. The site blogswara just has below 8000 hits. And there is no mention of this site in any national newspaper comparing it to open source revolution. Also please note that the site has just about 10 songs to be downloaded, one of which belongs to PS.
Answer: Did you except all songs to be sung by Pradip? The site clearly tells that this is a joint effort. Not a single persons album.Silly argument which does not guage a person's popularity. If so all films & albums would have songs only by single persons.
4. Podbazaar is the audio version of Youtube. Users actually upload a songs or interview and write an article about it. It means that a user can write anything about it. It's not necessarily reliable. Also note that podbazaar is not in the top 100,000 sites according to Alexa.( it is around the 1 million mark.)

--Ageo020 02:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Answer: We are not talking about Podbazar's popularity here.
Please do answer this question: Is there a meter by which you can guage a person's popularity? No. Have you lived in Kerala since 1996? Have you heard this person's songs? Then why do you say that he is not popular? Based just on the Internet searches?

Info on the net is based on what info we feed into it. Kerala is very bad in internet density. Broadband started here only in 2005! So it will take some time for people in Kerala to be internet savvy. Please take all these facts into consideration.--59.93.35.130 12:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


Comment
Ageo, I dont know on what basis you say that other major dailys has not recognised the person in question. The Hindu has a good online edition and I believe that you will not be searching in the native language, say malayalam or tamil. the problem with the current system that uses the ascii fonts used by individual language dailys are custom-built, which takes out the searchability. hence, I would think that the argument which says he doesnt generate google listing does not hold much good.
Also, I would like to know how many movies are listed in IMDB, with a comparison to the actual number of movies released. this is to identify the authenticity of the argument that says that IMDB doesnt have any records.
Please note that the blogswara recorded 5000+ hits and 300+GB downloads within no time of release of its first album, in which the person is a part of.
Its my bad that I mispresented the part of podbazar. It was mpod , which I should have mentioned.
On the point that Sunidhi chauhan generated that many, please note that she sings in Hindi, which has a wider audience level and reachability in the net. whereas the other languages are yet to make their way into the internet community in the level as hindi has.
I feel that the Searchability on the net may not give an actual picture on the subject.
Comments and questions are welcome.
--Jyothis 02:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment Unfortunately being mentioned in a list of other people, all of whom performed does not constitute a "feature" as in "Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers." A "feature" is (from wiktionary) " 1. An important or main item." Being listed in the context of many others who participated in an event that was features does not constitute a "feature." As far as the unreliability of search tools to properly reflect foreign-language sources, this may have to condemn the article to unverifiability (WP:V). Seidenstud 03:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment
Is this a wiki war? Seems like one of your mods Ageo is bent on making it so! He seems to be from Kerala and still bent upon to discredit a person about whom he does not know anything. Hey accept the facts. The other mods are more mature.Have a broader outlook.
contention1): Why is pradip singled out when the abhijit sawants/amit sanas all have articles here?

I am a press reporter & writer based in Kerala and know this singer since 1994. I think it's time to close this discussion.Most of the supporting comments are from amateur fans. I am a passerby and was alarmed to see so much talk based on just news from internet! Net or google is not the final word on any person's popularity or talent it also gives incorrect and incomplete facts many times.There is more to a celebrity than google. Has anyone of the mods here has ever heard this man's voice? You can judge his popularity from his music blog. It's unfair to comment on a person's talent & popularity from factual materials just from the Internet without taking a round up of other important factors like regional popularity and support.So thought of giving some clear facts without any bias as one of the mods here has suggested.

A celebrity is more than internet news. It takes just minutes to be one and years to sustain it.Pradip became a celebrity for all malayalees in 1996 and is still going strong after 10 years.

contention 2): I found articles about Kazi, Abhijeet Sawant, Amit Sana

(http://en.wikipedia.org./Amit_Sana - This man does not have any material to support any claims as per this wiki but still he is there!)and even just some participants of the Indian idol/ program on your wiki who are here just due to this single T.V program! Some have not even sung a single film song or any album to credit!

Who authorised this article to stay without even an iota of supporting facts as pradip has?

Then why should pradip not be here? (Just a contention)

Contention 3) The same rule should apply for everyone.He is a celebrity since 1996. Some

of his achievements are as below.

1) 1991-President's Gold medal winner in A.I.R National level Light Music

competetion

2) 1996- Lata mangeshkar Award for best male singer of India in Meri Awaz

Suno, the first National level Televised Music competetion.

3) 1997- The prestegious TOYI (Ten Outstanding Young Indian Award) given by

JCI International which is recognition to his contributions TOYI Award

4) 1998- Best T.V Playback singer of Kerala award for the

song"Ennakkaruppin"

5) He is a regular in many T.V programs and has done a listless number of

Albums.

This list is endless and they are only some of his major achievement..He has

performed all over India & in all the gulf countries many times.

So your first requirement of having won atleast an award of National repute

is satisfied as he has won three such awards.

He was one of the few Indians selected by the Indian & Japanese Govt. to participate

in 1) Ship for the world youth program-1994 http://www.swyaa-india.org/Pprofile.asp 2) Renaissance-World Youth Prog-2003 http://www.iyeo.or.jp/Ren/2003/edu/profile.htm

None of the above music competetion winners have such a brilliant profile of

international stature and varied interests!

The finding by one of the mods about singing in only one film is not true.
The list is incomplete as he has been signed by Sandeep Chowta to sing in a

major Hindi Film! This list which too is incoplete has many of his songs: click on the singer pradip and you will find more films in which he sang.

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/
He permanently appears on this T.V program in Kerala:
http://www.amritatv.com/html/anjali.php
Mod's: The list and details about Indian Playback singers is very new and

without much indepth info. Why don't we all try to expand it rather than closing out such talents. You should also expand to wider areas of information other than just basing your findings on the number of google hits.

  • An encyclopaedia should try to bring comprehensive info on even the smallest info.

Wiki should also be about trying to find real talents(who do have contributed in their fields) who need to be introduced to the whole world. Let's not shun away from expanding knowledge and throwing light for the world. No one should be discriminated against.Let's give credit to the people who introduce such new faces to the wiki. Isn't the whole existence of the wiki based on expansion of such new info?

I have presented a comprehensive writeup based on my available knowledge. I

do not know why all these facts were not mentioned in this article in the first place by the creator! If still this does not warrants merit then God save the person who started this article!

Radhakrishnan
--59.93.15.182 05:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Pradip has been on the music scene since 1996 since he won Meri Awaz Suno. This music show was the forerunner of the many later music shows such as Sa Re Ga Ma and Indian Idol. Also note that he is a major celebrity in his home state of Kerala. Also according to WP:BIAS not many people outside South India will know him. Hence, he is culturaaly significant for him to merit an article over here. --202.150.117.156 05:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


  • Keep : Pradip Somasundaran is truly Self-made. He is very talented and has many achievements to his credit. How Popular are Internet and Google in 1996 when he won the talent show for Meri Awaz Suno which was famous and broad cast all over India on television channel.

Indian national Newspapers like to sell their stuff based on political news . We are discussing about talent here. Wiki needs to introduce people of talent instead of repeating something already on the net. His contribution to music in Kerala is remarkable.

  • Keep He is a well known singer in Kerala. Google hits on him will be far and few. But that doesn't mean malayalam and local newspapers don't cover him. The Hindu is one of the major South Indian newspaper which keeps a good online record. Also local TV networks cover him regularly. He has worked with great music directors such as Ravindran and Illayaraja. Some of his music albums are all the rage in college campuses throughout Kerala. At the time of his victory in Meri Awaz Suno, he was interviewed by every TV network in South India. But as 10 years have passed since then, not many people will remeber him. One of the users is hell bent on destroying his credibility, I am sorry for him --130.216.191.84 23:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
This IP address is likely associated with the vandal Nilmar1--see below. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep The people of Kerala are quite angry with the harsh treatment of one of their favourite sons. This discussion is not even needed. Pradip is being harassed by some people who don't even know him. I hope the editors have enough common sense to keep this article.--Nilmar1 23:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Nilmar1 was just blocked indefinitely for vandalism. This account was likely used from IP address 130.216.191.84 (above), as the edits are very related. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep - He is a notable Singer and a TV personality known all over Kerala and amongst all keralites all over the world.His name is not usually referred to as Pradip Somasundaran but it is either Pradeep Somasundaram or Pradip Somasundaram . - Bharatveer 04:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Hi All, As a[REDACTED] user and music lover I know him since 1996's Meri avaz zuno. He was notable singer since then. Becasue this was a famous program. And after that he sings for malayalam movies and Albums.I modified the article Pradip Somasundaran .I think now it is better than before.But one thing is that this is the first time I am hearing his name is Pradeep soma sundaran rather than Pradeep soma sundaram.

Rgds Jyothish Jothishkumart 05:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Don't Delete - PradipSomasundram(n) is a well-known playback singer. He bacame famous through the TV program 'Meri Awaz Suno'. He won the State Award for the Best Playback singer (TV awards; not for a feature film). -- Rajith Mohan :) 07:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak keep I am going for a keep here. Pradeep Somasundaram (sic) appears somewhat notable, though not very much so. As per the musiconline link provided by someone above, he has sung in atleast five seperate movies. One significant role/song in a movie, or minor ones in five is good enough for me. "Pradeep Somasundaram" gets just over hundred google hits and the first two pages contain a few good links. Tintin (talk) 07:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong keep "Pradip Somasundaran" gives 751 google hits and add to the 100 odd hits of "Pradip Somasundaran" makes it almost 850 strong hits. Both are the same person. He has international youth exchange programs to his credit as per some hits and links above. What is his drawback here? I do not understand.

No way to ignore such a multi talented personality. --59.93.39.205 10:35, 2 August 2006 (UT

  • Do not delete: Pradip Somasundaran is a well know artiste in south indian music industry(especilay malayalam).He is known by his performance in "Meri Awaz Suno"
  • Week Keep - I myself am from Kerala, but I confess I've never heard of him before. As the Musicindiaonline link shows that he has sung in nearly 5 movies, I think he is quasi notable. -- thunderboltz12:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • DO NOT DELETE:Pradip Somasundaran is a well known music figure in the state of Kerala and across India afterhe proved himself by winning the Lata Mangeshkar trophy for the best male singer in India. I wonder why this article is considered for deletion!
  • Strong Keep I am a member of FSF from Kerala. I know this guy very well. When R.M.S was here in Ernakulam he was there with us. He entertained R.M.S with his melodius songs and R.M.S played the flute.

From all the above mentioned information, the following points are enough to merit his article here 1) He has sung in many Films (only some are indicated in Internet as database is old) . Heard he sang in a new film of for Ramesh Narayan. Saw the news from papers. So he is a playback singer and active. He is a life member of M.A.C.T.A (Malayalam Cine Technicians Association) 2) His songs appear on Television channels almost every day! 3) He has two Awards of National repute 4) He has a music blog which is live proof of his activity in music field and his blog is listed the fifth in it's category in India Indian Bloggers Websiteand touching 6000 hits in a span of 3 months! 5) He has participated in International Youth Exchange programs two times. 6) He propagates the use of free software in Kerala. 7) He is an eminent lecturer who teaches Electronics which makes him special and different from ordinary singers All these show that he is a multifaceted personality. I found even lesser mortals having articles written on them. Whay have you not gone after such people? So let there be sanity. Let talent courtesy and vanity get it's worth. Make your judgement on what has been mentioned on the article and whether it well supported by people who have opined and facts available. Anoop --59.93.33.147 17:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Do not delete - I am a malayalee, and I have heard of Pradeep Somasundaram. I have also seen his performance in Meri Awaz Suno. He is not a very famous playback singer (musicindiaonline.com search reveals this), but definitely has the talent. Let's keep the article after giving it a through edit - Anandpiyer 18:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Do not delete - I am not a regular contributor to the English Misplaced Pages, but I regularly contribute to Malayalam Misplaced Pages (See My contributions). In my view, Pradeep Somasundaran is a singer well-known enough to be mentioned in Misplaced Pages. Umesh 21:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Do not delete I is a person who works in Dubai and have seen this person's live stage programs there many times. He came there many times with East Coast Vijayan. His song Ennakkaruppin Ezazhagu is a hit there. We see his songs almost daily on doordarshan, Amrita, Asianet and Kairali T.V.

His Symphony program on Kairali was exceptionally good. Also the song "Porumo En Shya Megame" on Doordarshan is now a legend for malayalees all over world. Also his ghazal programs and Stage showas on Asianat and ACV are very good. We also regularly watch Anjali and Ghazal on Amrita T.V there. I speak for thousands of gulf malayalees. Do not delete this article because one foolish ignorant malayalee who has not seen Kerala or lived here does not know Mr. Pradip. Thousand of malayalees in kerala and abroad cannot forget Meri Awaz Suno. He is the only malayalee who won a hindi singing competetion.

George Philip-Dubai-On leave--59.93.34.122 01:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)—

  • Strong Keep

WP:BIO Notability

says that:

Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by:

Multiple features in popular culture publications or national newspapers

A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following

An independent biography

Name recognition

WP:MUSIC

says that:

  • A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
  • Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
  • Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).
  • Has won or placed in a major music competition.
  • Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.
  • Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.

Hence any small child could see from all the presented facts that he qualifies more more than one of the above when only one of the above is required for his inclusion.

So I request the administrators to end this unnecessary discussion and let the article be improved with further info on this person with mistakes which as per your rules removed.


Regarding Newbies

  • As per the above newbies are to be encouraged. Here some admins like Ageo are violating this basic spirit.

Personal attacks

  • As per the above personal attacks are unwarranted. But Ageo is waging a personal war with this person and his huge fan following as I could see. This attitude is very immature and below the dignity of a WIKI Admin.

He should admit his impulsive action and gracefully admit the article and take the help of Pradip in improving music related articles on the Wiki. A truce and positive action is the need of the hour and an end to this unnecesary discussion. Mr Pradip does not seem to be a terrorist or a thief. He seems to be a multi talented person with a huge fan following. So take his help in getting more info to the wiki than discouraging such eminent people.

Mad Max:--59.93.4.180 10:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Pradip Somasundaran is indeed a playback singer. The (auto)bio that appears in this article is almost accurate. I know this man very well and his brother was a colleague of mine. His "Meri Awaz Suno" feat was front-page news for almost all dailies in Kerala at that time.

Pradip Somasundaran is not very famous nowadays. As you can see in the article, he was on a roll till 1998; limelight has eluded him since then.

That said, let me admit that I am a bit surprised seeing him in Misplaced Pages. As I said, he is not that famous; yet he is not an ordinary keralite either. Let me say, for a brief period of time, he was a somewhat-well-known guy.

Overall a very funny situation..is he famous enough to get into wiki? Mind you, to an ordinary (non-netizen) keralite he will be more famous than wiki!

However, I think this article should be deleted. Reason? Take a look at it's history. A pathetic attempt for fame and publicity. It's a pity he couldn't do it in any other manner. --Sandeepmdas 15:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


  • Comment - More Info added:

Mods, Please note that I have added more information on the page Pradip Somasundaran. Please take a look before reaching a decision. All these are verifiable with the concerned authorities. I humbly request you to consider the fact that The internet doesnt contain any information, unless we, the users add them to it. As we cannot measure the talent and popularity by scale, google should not be the final word on adding new and valid information on to the wiki. I strongly believe that this article should not be deleted, just because internet doesnt have enough information available. Thanks! --Jyothis 20:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Weak delete pradip used to be famous in the mid 90's but now not that many people have heard of him. I would have voted Keep, but the reason I am voting delete is because the article was started by the user User:pradipsomasundaran. Its high odds that Pradip himself created this article. Hence I would say that this is a vanity article. + This comment is deleted as the user has been banned from editing any article and seems to be a sock of Ageo--RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

- Also the many unregistered users who have voted here suggests to me that someone is using sock puppets and voting over here. - But some of them have given some good points such as Jyothis, But overall I would say Pradip has barely sang a film song in the last five years , hence delete this article. - Also some other article created by pradip are en.wikipedia.org/Category:Malayalam_playback_singers. - I would like to rebutt Jyothis one point i.e. Talent doesn't get you a wiki article. Fame however does. Pradip is just nominally famous.--RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Note : RonStoppable was blocked five hours after he added this comment above. Tintin (talk) 09:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - in these caes of doubt I go with the expertise. If an Indian wikipedian advises that he is not-notable that is good enough for me. In any case hee seems to have no international recognition or local major award. BlueValour 03:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment

With Due respect, I disagree to some points noted above.

1. user User:pradipsomasundaran is not Pradip himself. I had contacted him enquiring this earlir and he has confirmed this. I know that it is not a fair practice, and I have checked that out at the first place. As he is a teacher, I wouldnt have had to collect and add the informatiion in Pradip Somasundaran today. Whoever created the page used his name as his id.

2. Unregistered IPs does not denote Socks. Most of the people who comes by and participate in this discussion does not know that you need to sighn with a login. South India is not much wiki literate yet. I dont think a normal user knows to IP spoofing or chainings.

3. BlueValour, I dont think many indian wikipedians knows Taranath Rao too. (No offence intented). everyone will have their area of interests and knowledge base. India, especially South India is not much wiki literate yet. People hear about wikipedia, when they get out of the state or country. Wiki norms does not require you to win the international recogintion. Also he is definitely way famous than Prof. R. Bindu.

Comment: Even Prof. Bindu is not a Professor. She is a just a selection Grade lecturer(Professor post does not exist in colleges. only in universities as per UGC norms)and a petty local body politician Who the hell actually gave permission for such irrelevant articles. The admin's should resign for this!

Ron, I have added the list of songs he has sung. Please take a look. I accept that talent does not get you there. I suppose you misread my statement.

Thanks.--Jyothis 09:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


  • Strong Keep - Indian wikipedians are not Gods and they are not the masters of wikipedia. Also any wikipedian who lives outside Kerala and has not been in Kerala for more than two years cannot claim to be an authority in this matter. Some contentions like "he was famous then" "he is not famous now' are very immature in the case of celebrities in music, acting, film direction etc. Oce a celebrity is always a celebrity. here there is no need for any concern as somasundaram is very active in giving live shows, T.V programs all across kerala. I even saw his program on Kairali channel yesterday and on doordarshan almost every day! His program Anjali on Amrita T.V is still continuing after 2 years and has won two state level awards. Hence the knowledge of our admins who are away in far places from kerala and those who do not watch television but go on typing on their keyboards though very sincere in this matter is mostly half baked and outdated. So they cannot be blamed.
He is also a regular participant in Swaralaya Music & Dance festival at Palakkad and is performing there this october too! Fact can be cheched from their website Swaralaya. He is also to perform for a fund raising program by the Malayalam Film fraternity in Cochin. So who says that he is not active in the first place? Such reckless opinions are only personal opinions and not the truth. If he were not famous now he would not be invited again and again for programs all over Kerala. SO this amounts to deliberate attemopt to defame the singer and is serious matter. The fact is that any famous artist has highs and lows in his career. Right from Michael Jackson to Whitney Houston and the great Rafi in India had bad phases. Jackson and houston have had long times when they have not had any new releases. So will our wiki admin's delete their pages? This is rubbish and immature thinking. If it were such we would have to remove articles of all such people and dead people since their current contributions are nil! Once a person attains celebrity status it is for his whole life. He or she stays in the heart of millions of fans for a particular reason which is for keeps. They may sway between active and passive phases of their career. Anyway this guy is only around 40! He also seems to have up's and downs. But seems quite stable with so many albums awards and achievements to credit. What the hell more are you looking at here? The article also says that he sang for "Art of Living International" which is indeed prestigious if true. Some articles mentioned above like this http://en.wikipedia.org/Amit_sana are stupid in that they do not have anything on the person concerned. He has no album to credit and also their is no award list or any material that would be termed suitable for his qualification for a wiki article. "Many believe that Amit Sana is a superior singer to Abhijeet and that he only won due to female support but Amit remains great friends with Abhijeet they made a special appearance in season 2 of Indian Idol where he and Abhijeet along with Aditi Paul performed a song together" These are the wordings used in this article! The admin's who are keeping their eyes shut to such rubbish hearsay should hang their heads in shame! So who put it there and why there is no hue and cry about this one??? He has not even won an award. He is just a runner up! There are so many singers in Kerala like Manjari, gayatri who have only 100 and 6 hits in google! So does that mean that they are not celebrities or playback singers ? They are State Government award winners. It is foolish to says that a playback singer has to have 1000 google hits. Who made this rule? Gayatri and manjari are the leading female singers in Malayalam. If an some wiki admin who lives abroad did not hear about them does it mean that they do not exist?
Shame on such Admins. They should be reported to the arbitration committe for such immature comments and shouls not be allowed to function as Admins.
As for me somasundaran (even if he started the article which i doubt as the first version was like some of his fans one trying to have some fun) satisfies all requirements of having an article here in wiki WP:BIO Notability WP:MUSIC Both the above norms more than satisfied in his case.

Musicians and ensembles There are a lot of bands, singers and other musicians and musical ensembles with articles in the Misplaced Pages (see Category:Musicians).

  • A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
  • Has had a charted hit on any national music chart, in at least one large or medium-sized country.

Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one large or medium-sized country.

  • Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country, reported in notable and verifiable sources.
  • Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
  • Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).
  • Has won a major music award.
  • Has won or placed in a major music competition.
  • Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.(He is a graded Radio and T.V artist)

He satisfies all the above requirements SO IS HIGHLY NOTABLE. So why have you put this article for deletion in the first place? So close this matter now. All other personal likes and dislikes like whether he was popular before, is popular now or will be in future, is nonsense as THERE ARE CLEAR GUIDELINES TO GUIDE US ON THIS. So all personal references like "I have not heard this guy", "he should have won all major competetions in India", etc. do not hold any ground at all.

WHETHER HE IS POPULAR NOW OR NOT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE AS SOME PERSONS ARE DELIBERATELY TRYING TO SHIFT ATTENTION. THE ONLY ISSUE IS WHETHER HE SATISFIES ANY OF THE CRITERION AS PER WIKI NORMS.All other personal comments of what someone thinks on his poularity are to be ignored. There is no meter for poularity and this cannot be acertained mere google searches and by people who are away and are not living in kerala. Let this be decided by we who live here!

Hope the more mature and experienced Admins/mods like Seidenstud & Alphachimp show maturity and take this off from the deletion page without delay--Gluewhale 08:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


Comment. I'm really alarmed by the level of sockpuppetry on this page. If at all possible, I'd like to solicit the opinions of more Wikipedians by extending this debate for another day or so. alphaChimp 14:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


So far the regular editors who have commented on this are yourself, Bharatveer, Jyothiskumart (not Jyothis), Rajith Mohan, myself, Deepujoseph (thunderboltz), Ageo20, Anandpiyer, Umesh (who is active in ml.wiki), Raghu.kuttan, Sandeepmdas, Bluevalor and HRsearcher. Seidenstud has commented but I can't see him give his opinion. I don't know where Bluevalor and HResearcher are from but of the rest, all except you are from Kerala (and hence are supposed to know what this is all about).
Alphachimp, Ageo20, HResearcher have voted for a delete, myself and Deepu confess our ignorance but go for a weak keep, the rest are for retaining the article. So the sock/meatpuppets needn't have taken all the trouble. Tintin (talk) 14:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


Hi All, Please read the given below sentence is from NDTV message borad. First read it.

Re: Best Indian Music Director - Sent By: reemakaran (jaipur,india) i am not agree with ur choice abt ilaya coz i never heard abt ilaya raja so how can u say that ilaya raja is best indian music director


I think now some[REDACTED] users behave like this sender. Coz i never heard abt Pradip so how can u say? Don’t be behaving like this! A real wiki pedia user who interested in music should know about all singers. He is really a good singer. He is really multitalented like a Teacher in Electronics dept and a singer.

we can never compare him with Yesudas or MG Sreekumar. And he is not a notable Play back singer. But he is a notable singer. And he deserved for this article.


I never say to delete this article. 

But need modification. I think there is no need of maximize the article with his all details. And maximum try to minimize the article with necessary details.

Rgds Jothishkumart 14:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


Who is this comment addressed to ? Tintin (talk) 14:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't like to address a perticular user. I felt some users behaving like that. Don't confuse with user jyothis and jothishkumart. I am user jothishkumart .Jothishkumart 06:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)



  • Comment

TinTin,Alpha Chimp,Mods, I am a malayalam wikibooks Contributor. I agree that I dont do things here. You can see my work here Sorry that I did not mention it earlier. Thanks. --Jyothis 15:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment Alpha Chimp. This is not an article about a Mozart or a Beethoven, only about a singer who now as seen from the info and various comments is notable through his awards and T.v programs. So even if there are socks they have been very informative and have countered vague arguments very well. So I think they can be excused.I think we should give the credit to Jyothis who has compiled the facts. Tintin I think this writeup is not too big. Have see many huge articles like here. Eric Clapton, and here Jayachandran(which is more hearsay,over descriptive and not neutral. It also smacks of hero worship). Also since the credibility of this person was in question, Jyothis did the right thing by making the article more comprehensive, and wiki friendly.He has laid out only the facts and information about this singer who has been mis-understood by many wikipedians who are not in Kerala.After all this is our job, bringing out the truth and compelling the people who want such articles to be published to be more accurate. So now Admins please go after the Amit Sanas, Prof. Bindu's and such people. let the people who started this article heave a sigh of relief and improve upon it. Enough time has been spent already debating on this. Admin's take a decision now without going for the extra day.--Gluewhale 15:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment I find that there are too many socks here, who support/delete this article. Some of the registered users like gluewhale, jyothis, pradipsomasundaran have just created articles for pradip somasundaran in the english encyclopaedia.--Ageo020 00:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


  • Comment: Ageo, I Think the first and foremost thing that needs to be done is take you off from wiki list.

YOU HAVE FAKED TO BE AN ADMIN WHEN YOU ARE NOT. YOUR EXISTENCE IN WIKI IS ONLY FROM MARCH 2006.

  • This was found on ageo's talk page which confirms this.
  • Quote

Hi! I noticed on your user page that you identify yourself as an admin. Since you aren't an admin, I strongly suggest you remove you the box. JoshuaZ 19:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, please explain why you made the claim. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

About my page in which i made an admin claim, I'm sorry. I just copied that section from another user's page. I line checked the code but i think i may have overseen this. Really sorry if this caused any trouble. Thanks User:Ageo020 --Ageo020 00:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Its ok. Don't worry about it. JoshuaZ 01:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Unquote

You do not have any basic knowledge of wiki! You have made all silly references like 1) 1000 hits in google to be a playback singer 2) Close up Antakshari being a music talent show.

From your Quote "" *Delete the singer may have won the trophy but its not a trophy well known to other indians. Some of the famous singing competitions at that time were'Sa re Ga Ma' and 'Antakshiri' which were not won by this guy. Also no professional fame was acquired by this guy. Also I have not heard of any notable film songs sung by this guy in malayalam or tamil

This was your silly comment in the begening where you wanted this person to win all singing competetions in India (Are you his mentor?)

You said you have not heard him. What importance does this have here on this discussion. You might not have heard about many persons. That shows your ignorance and arrogance not knowledge.You do not have any proven competance in music to prove professional competence of this person. This has been already done by the people who gave him so many awards and made him sing in so many films, albums, T.V shows and live shows in India and abroad. This is not your job. Your job was to see whether the article satisfies wiki norms and you had no business to poke into competance and poularity polls. YOU DID NOT DO YOUR JOB IMPARTIALLY AND WITH NEUTRALITY. Thousands of malayalees including admins here know him and have heard him. Now you want to shut their voices by this last ditch futile attempt? There is also a complaint that you sent anonymous hate mails to the singer's blog and some nasty campaigns making this a personal war. We have proof that you sent personal invitation to other wikipedians from your page to help you in this hate campaign which is below the dignity of any wikipedian. You do not have any right to do so. Your actions speak for your sick mind!

Ageo's actions from his talk page and from the page of user pradipsomasundaran

Quote

This is a message to all Category:Kerala Wikipedians

I want your opinion on this particular person Pradip Somasundaran. He claims to be a famous singer in Kerala. Now being a Malayalee, I have not heard of this person before, so I wonder whether or not you have heard of him before and set this issue straight. If so, then please let your opinion be counted at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Pradip Somasundaran. Please note that by voicing your opinion as a Malayalee/Keralite will add more weight to your words.

Many Thanks --Ageo020 21:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey PS Yes, you are right. I have not lived in Kerala in the past 2 years. That doesn't mean I am not familiar with it. Now Amrita TV is not a TV channel watched by the masses. They watch Surya, Asianet or Kairali. If you have been seen on this channel, it means to me in my biased opinion that you are not too famous to have an article in wikipedia. Also remember that there are many singers who have cut their own records. That doesn't mean they have to have an article too. Plus I am a frequent listener to malayalam film songs and I have certainly not heard of you. Do not waste your time ranting about whether the article should be deleted or not. Instead focus your energy on singing and becoming famous and then having someone else to have an article written about you. This letter may make you more angry, but I am sorry. Ave --Ageo020 03:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Unquote

I found these messages on your page and on the person impersonating as user pradipsomasundaran. These clearly show your immature dirty mind and illegal actions. This also proves that all your comments are biased as you yourselves have admitted to this here! You have used abusive language with intent to disgrace defame and provocating a person. If the real Pradip Somasundaran finds this out you will cut a very sorry figure for yourselves! This is enough to file a case against you in the arbitration section man!

Admins: Remove this person soon. He is a disgrace to wiki. He is just an editor(counter vandalism unit member?) and claimed to be an Admin with an Admin box on his page which was removed when some one reported this. He also is a novice who started editing in March 2006 and yest behaves as if he is the owner of wiki.


The outcome of this this discussion will be decided on merit not your ego! After this is over your actions will be reported to the arbitration committe. Except you all the other people who have commented, including admins have behaved sensibly with reason and dignity.

All your silly arguments have been put to rest by many many of the people who commented here. Now that you do not have anything to say, rather than replying to the observations you become a mouth for some other admin and be a cry baby and say that "hey, all the supporters are fake!" You have not replied to the Amit Sana issue so far. Why are you showing double standards?" When you started spreading lies did you expect others to be quiet? Now you will tell that even the other admins are socks. This is a futile futile attempt again. Where were you all this time?

Let's stop trying to disprove the already proven celebrity status of one of the most talented young singers of kerala who still has a long way to go. No other singer in kerala sings so well in so many languages and so many styles! He does not have many film songs but he is not retired and is only around 40. He is also very active as a singer with many programs. There is nothing we or he can gain or loose in this unnessary debate. Let's show maturity. Enough material proof has been provided by many for his credibility. He satisfies more than one criterion for an article here.

Have you all editors and mods from kerala seen how many singers from malayalam have a decent page here? And we call ourselves malayalees??? Only K.J Yesudas has a terific page here in wiki standards. P. Jayachandran also is o.k. But none of the singers gave a good article here! Is it because they all do not have 1000 google hits? Time to stop this silly argument. All the playback singers including kamukara, udayabhanu, unnimenon, venugopal, gayatri, jyotsna, rimi tomi, vidhu pratap, manjari who are loved and adored by lakhs of malayalees do not have a page here! Let pradip's page be an eye-opener to all those who want to take up this issue and make the section of malayalam playback singers strong. Why is it so that malayalees are the biggest "paras" to malayalees?(sorry this usage will be understood by malayalees only. Not in wiki dictionary) Let's all forget personal ego's and get to improving information on all the great playback singers in Malayalam instead of degrading them. I am here to give my sincere contributions to wiki not to degrade any person.--Gluewhale 01:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Well I have started my contributions with a page on Gayatri Asokan--Gluewhale 07:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment This man is not an ordinary guy. He has participated in two International Youth exchange programs too of the highest levels! Well I have added the links below for verifiability.--Gluewhale 18:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Ageo, All I did was to collect all the info I could find on him and update the page so that the people here who discuss can see before they comment and conclude. Please point out the exact reasons (As the people who suggested the keep) why we should delete this article. I'm standing on the facts that I know for sure. Those information can be verified thru the corresopnding agencies in Kerala and India. Looks like you have taken things personally. Please take a look at this Picture. This is a bunch of albums/movies we could find that Mr. Pradip Somasundaram has worked on. you can see that some albums even has his photo on it. Please call up your frineds in Kerala (as you claim to be from kerala, I suppose you have people there too) and verify.

Thanks. --Jyothis 01:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Update

More photos and proofs. If at all we have any 'Real' Mods around, Please see this.

International Recognitions & Citations


To know more on this program click here > Ship for World Youth program

Above 3 links were added by: --Gluewhale 17:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Meri Awaz Suno

Awards

In the news

Misc

Above 3 additional Links added by --Gluewhale 10:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


If Alpha Chimp or other admins still feel that I am a sock, I can give my direct contact information. I work in a facility that has stringent security restrictions and background checks including FBI fingerprint verification. I'd be more than happy to prove my identity, if at all I have to.

It is quite sad to see such remarks, as you are tracking the IPs. Also, as I have stated above, I contribute to Malayalam Wikibooks.

--Jyothis 02:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Pradip is a well known singer of kerala.He has done many albums in malayalam.And one of the most commenting thing about him is i think no malayalee sings hindi songs as good as him. So there is no need for a deletion. 04:30, 5 August 2006


Request to the new editors (especially Jyothis and Gluewhale) who added their comments here : Since you all seem very passionate about articles related to Kerala, I wonder whether you guys would like to hang around a little longer in Misplaced Pages, instead of disappearing the moment this AfD is over. There are not many articles about Kerala and even those which are, are mostly not in a good shape. We could do with a bit of help in improving the articles. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the Kerala noticeboard. (PS : Just noticed the new article that Gluewhale created yesterday. Thanks) Tintin (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment

I end my defense of this article by presenting a comprehensive list of verifiable documents above along with what has been presented by jyothis from various sites which PROVES BEYOND DOUBT that he is a very very notable guy. Not only a great singer of Kerala but a multifaceted talent who has spread his knowledge & talent not only in Indian but also abroad. The Govt. of India has sent him two times abroad to Japan for his talents (we lesser mortals do not even have heard of such programs!). Other than the "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" he has been honoured both in India and abroad two times, one by by the JCI with TOYI and other the Dubai Kairali Kalakendram for his contribution to music. He has won two awards in Kerala too for contribution to music. He also won an International talent competetion. He has done shows abroad and is still actively doing music shows, singing in films, singing in albums, singing in T.v programs, propagating linux, technology in India and abroad. Now what more do you want from this person?

  • Quote: ( From the blog comments page of pradip)

I chanced upon your blog from wikipedia, i have always been a big fan of yours for many many years, i have been following ur singing in "Anjali" in Amrita channel and the hindi songs you render are absolutely brilliant.

Hope to visit your blog more often.

Posted by Praveen to Pradip Ki Awaz Suno at 8/05/2006 11:43:01 PM '

  • Unquote:

This is just one of the hundreds of comments that I found on his blog today! If a person can find his blog from this article then it should be good enough! The hundreds of comments there prove his popularity as a singer. Kerala is a small state and people of his breed are rare.So he is one of our heroes! Now you decide whether to keep your ego's in tact or to keep this article! We cannot undo a person's contributions by just shouting foul 100 times. Thank you...I retire...from this defence for dignity and justice and hope justice and sanity prevails over false ego's!

"You will not see light if you shut yourselves out in your room. When you come out in the open you will see light! Knowledge is light. Ignorance is darkness"

I do not have anything more to say. --Gluewhale 18:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

A blog having hundreds of comments does not make it important. alphaChimp 19:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Jayram Menon

Non-notable bio. Only 19 Google hits, appears to be President and CEO of non-notable corporation. Brian 17:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)btball

Comment. I believe the venture capital firm is United Capital Partners which also appears non-notable. I can't turn up any information about it with Google and the article is essentially empty. It is PROD since the 25th of July. Brian 15:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)btball
Thanks for the link. As you said, it is unlikely to change my opinion about the topic. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 15:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Do not Delete I think the spirit of[REDACTED] is lost if you guys decide at random to eliminate pages purely based on your understanding of this matter. I am from Mauritius. I have heard of this individual and group. Fairly notable amongst the investment circles. 0SIRIS 07:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Comment. I tend to agree with 0SIRIS. Shouln't we try to verify through some independent sources before concluding that this article must be deleted? Google may not have very efficient means of pulling info about Mauritius. JAnne
Comment Well, yeah, in a perfect world. The problem here is that there are literally millions of articles on Misplaced Pages. And a lot of them shouldn't be there. Hoaxes have a nasty habit of staying up for months. The creator of the article, by default, should be expert on the subject enough to provide evidence of notability. Random passers by like myself should not be expected to spend plane fare to Mauritius to verify the truth of an article. So, the policy is of necessity "guilty until proven innocent." The AFD process is an attempt to deal with this. You attest he's notable, but... You don't provide any backup sources that we can check. Which investment circles are you talking about? Where is the evidence of notablity? We need more. Sorry. - Richfife 19:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Comment Above and beyond that, this is exactly the kind of article that a scam artist would create as part of an attempt to build substance for a fictional company that exists to bilk people out of their money. Standards for inclusion therefore need to be particularly high. "You can trust me! Look at my Misplaced Pages bio!" - Richfife 20:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Comment Strange theory "gulity until proven innocent" - isnt it supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty". Anyways its upto the author to validate. Maybe 0SIRIS can throw some light. I have come across this venture cap company at Mauritius having made investments in Brazil. The company is not ficticious otherwise agencies like SEC, EDGAR and FSC will not maintain their information. JAnne 07:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment In a court of law, Innocent until proven guilty. In Misplaced Pages, it's the other way around. I could say "George W. Bush is actually Grover Cleveland after a DNA reformat by space aliens. Prove me wrong!" It's the author's responsibility to provide sources for information, not the readers. If there are no sources, the article can't stay. End of story. - Richfife 15:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment The article itself should include the sources to demonstrate that it is verifiable and notable. This one does not. It reads much like many bios that are speedily deleted. Brian 11:32, 1 August 2006 (UTC)btball
 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Mailer Diablo 19:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete unverified and should be removed --RMHED 15:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as per nomination. the article was nominated July 28th and no edits to the article has been made to provide any sources.--Gay Cdn (talk) (email) (Contr.) 16:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete yet another non-notable person. —Khoikhoi 00:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nominator due to lack of verifiability. Yamaguchi先生 21:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. I tend agree with some of you on lack of verifiability on google - however do take cognizance that in the case with many "Indian" names, the right spelling could be a combination of either Jayram, Jairam, Jayaram. This person is known in banking & investment circles in India as Jay Menon. Anyways, that is my opinion & I wonder if it at all matters. I have read a few comments by other wikipedians. There seems to be a group of wikipedians who are more keen to delete out of a preconceived consensus. That might also explain the repeated PROD & AFD attempts by the same group of wiki admins 0SIRIS 17:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment 0SIRIS, you already stated your opinion above, you shouldn't be doing so a second time. I searched under all the variations of Jay Menon that you mentioned and only turned up 19 Google hits. Hardly notable. If he is notable, and more importantly verifiable, someone needs to supply the references. See the policy WP:VER. In a nutshell "Information on Misplaced Pages must be reliable and verifiable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources. Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed." This AfD has been open since July 28 and nobody has been able to supply any verifiable information about Jay Menon. Brian 17:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)btball
Comment your statement on verifiability is Contoversial! I did a google on +Jay +Menon +Venture +Capital and got around 20,900 hits. Now we all know that not all may relate to this individual. However that's different from the 19 that you have been quoting. So there is a contradiction on your own statement. Now when I tried +Jayaram +Menon +Investor I got around 298 hits. The "source" of verifiability was initiated by you, which doesn't hold ground. However a portion of your comment does makes sense & on that point I agree with you that the author should have stated facts and cited sources. 0SIRIS 17:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment The Google search I used was "Jay Menon" (and the other variations. When I filter out Misplaced Pages with -Misplaced Pages I only come up with 19 that appear that they could possibly be this Jay Menon. If someone can provide verifiable information about why Jay Menon is notable, I'll be glad to change my opinion from Delete to Keep but I've already spent a lot of time personally searching for verifiable information about his notability and haven't succeeded. Thanks. Brian 18:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)btball
Comment A Google search on +Jay +Menon +Venture +Capital turns up all sorts of stuff that has 2 or 3 of those words, but not the rest. It's not a valid search. I want to be polite here, but, please, put up or shut up. Don't say "I got X results from Google search Y". Post links to actual pages that verify notability. "Well known in financial circles" is a meaningless statement. You are the only person currently opposing this deletion. - Richfife 19:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Mailer Diablo 19:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Madras Tamil slang words

This was spun off from the main article of madras Tamil to make it smaller, if this will be deleted it will only get re attached to the main article. This List needs to be seen in whole with its link to Madras Tamil not alone.
Don't you think it would be better to first have an agreed definition of what makes a list encyclopaedic? I agree with what you said that some are better moved to wikitionary, but at the moment, I'm still not clear what the difference between List of Internet slang and this list is. -- Arvind 17:46, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone besides me see an anti-ethnic, anti-minority, and anti-profanity bias here? Mukadderat seems to be very selective in his AfD nominations, which wreaks of censorship, which is a clear Misplaced Pages policy violation. --List Expert 13:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

No, it is entirely reasonable to nominate articles which violate WP:NOT. A list of Madras Tamil slang words does not belong in an English language encyclopedia, and is not verifiable. -Will Beback 17:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Announcement: I've started a discussion on Misplaced Pages talk:What Misplaced Pages is not#Slang glossaries to discuss the fate of slang glossaries (such as this one) and to discuss whether or not the policy should be ammended to reflect the defacto acceptance of slang glossaries on Misplaced Pages. They are here, and based on the results of AfD discussions like this one, they seem to be here to stay. So shouldn't the policy be updated? It would sure save a lot of wasted time and effort on fruitless AfDs. You are welcome to join the discussion. --List Expert 09:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
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Also of interest

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was closed as no consensus by User:Mailer diablo. - Bobet 08:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Sri Lankan Tamil slang and swear words

Mukadderat 19:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Done and will exapnd articleRaveenS 13:10, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Keep per User:Arvind's argument or else book burnigRaveenS
See withdrawl of delete because these nominations are arbitary and may be prejudicial on the part of nominators. Collective decision of the community is neededHuracane 21:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
This is no loger a mere list of slang, effort has been made to make it into an article about Sri Lankan Tamil slangRaveenS

Does anyone besides me see an anti-ethnic, anti-minority, and anti-profanity bias here? Mukadderat seems to be very selective in his AfD nominations, which wreaks of censorship, which is a clear Misplaced Pages policy violation.--List Expert 13:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

No, it is entirely reasonable to nominate articles which violate WP:NOT. A list of Madras Tamil slang words does not belong in an English language encyclopedia, and is not verifiable. -Will Beback 17:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
First this is not Madras Tamil slang, second this is no longer a listRaveenS
  • Comment - Looks like admins will do what ever they feel like, use consensus, stick to the his/he interpretation of the rules to keep or delete articles. See Hence I took the initiative to convert this list to an article on loan words. What a travesty, at the very least the deleted list should be been merged with the Trinidadian English Creole, it was a easy way out decision RaveenS 15:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Violtate what part of WP:NOTRaveenS
  • Announcement: I've started a discussion on Misplaced Pages talk:What Misplaced Pages is not#Slang glossaries to discuss the fate of slang glossaries (such as this one) and to discuss whether or not the policy should be ammended to reflect the defacto acceptance of slang glossaries on Misplaced Pages. They are here, and based on the results of AfD discussions like this one, they seem to be here to stay. So shouldn't the policy be updated? It would sure save a lot of wasted time and effort on fruitless AfDs. You are welcome to join the discussion. --List Expert 09:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was keep. Mailer Diablo 17:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

List of loan words in Sri Lankan Tamil

Comment This is no longer a List and it never was a A usage guide or slang and idiom guide. It is an article on Loan words in Sri Lankan Tamil.RaveenS 13:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Who is this user, seem to follow Mukadderat around in deletion requests ?RaveenS 12:38, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, maybe I'm just a little dense today, but could you please explain what makes articles such as List of borrowed words in Indonesian, List of Latin words with English derivatives, and List of common phrases in constructed languages amongst others, more encyclopaedic than the article under consideration here? This is not a rhetorical question, I would genuinely like to understand what you see the difference as being. -- Arvind 00:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Wiktionary has grown beyond simple collection of translations and becomes more organized, "encyclopedish". See e.g., wikt:Category:Swadesh lists and take a look into Template talk:Swadesh lists. Here people are reasonable about moving a big number of lists where they belong. See also wikt:Wikisaurus:insane for other interesting developments in wikitionary. So IMO it is time to move most of such lists there. For example there was a move to convert artices like List of English words of Russian origin into wiktionary categories, like wikt:Category:Russian derivations. (And I only now noticed that this approach exactly fits the discussed Sri Lankan article.) `'mikka (t) 01:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Then how do you justify delete lets work to move into wictitionary categories instead deleting content
I see your argument, but I think the sheer number of articles involved means that a centralised discussion is warranted, rather than an ad hoc article-by-article deletion debate, because the latter will lead to inconsistent decisions being taken in relation to different articles. I'll stick to voting keep for now, but without prejudice to deleting or transwikiing as part of a process that applies to all similar articles. -- Arvind 23:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep I dont see this list of words being any different than any other list sof words. Those who are advocating it are seeing Misplaced Pages through a Eurocentric view point. If this is delete, there hundreds of other list of words that need to be deleted.RaveenS 17:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)Why this is keep then ?
List_of_English_words_of_Portuguese_origin because it is a european language with world dominance compared to another european languge ? Then how about this Arabic_influence_on_the_Spanish_language.
Based on the discussion on this AFD nomination, I have modified this into an article dealing with Loan words in Sri Lankan Tamil. It is no longer a List of loan words in Sri Lankan TamilRaveenS
  • Keep It does appear that there are many lists of loan words in different languages. One question I do have is why this article is in the English and not the Tamil Misplaced Pages? It doesn't really mean much to those not familiar with Tamil. Tyronen 18:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Let's move it then
You could move it to the Tamil WP, but it most certainly should be kept in the English Misplaced Pages as well because if anyone who doesn't know Tamil (like me) is doing any research into the language, it'll be impossible to read this article if it's only in Tamil. --snowolfd4 19:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep because as long as lists like List_of_English_words_of_Arabic_origin are acceptable, I don't see a reason to delete the one in discussion. The list even has some introductory words which embed it. This isn't a "slang or idiom guide" but an enlightening overview over historic processes concerning the language. (For the same reason: Don't move it.) Krankman 22:33, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This is content from Sri Lanka that is just begining to mushroom, may be move to wictionary but not delete. May be nominators can get thet gloves on and work to move it than to simply delete hard work of others. Better suggestion would have been to develop a template to move such things to wictionary. I think nominating this for deletin is totally unfair and wrong Huracane 14:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
This is no longer a list, it Loan words in Sri Lankan Tamil. Thanks RaveenS
List Expert, even though Mikka removed your "personal attack", I have to agree with you that AfDs by Mukadderat must obviously be viewed with special caution. (By the way, Mikka, in my opinion a user's AfD policy may at times be well relevant for the ensuing discussion!) Krankman 17:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
This is just disgusting. The nomination is done with a legitimate reason, citing immediately applicable policy. While I agree that policies are not cast in stone and may be overridden in particular cases with solid arguments (or by brute force), but your wikilawyering against Mukadderat are not warranted by his edits. Yes, he nominated several word lists. No he did not nominate all word lists. So what? `'mikka (t) 19:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Why do you say the information is unverifiable? There are a) dictionaries, b) scientific treatises on the topic and c) tons of books on borrowing processes in general.
Can you please state in which point(s) exactly this article violates WP:NOT. Do you mean this one? I don't think it applies at all because the article is neither a guide nor a list of definitions. And it can and will be expanded into an even more informative article if you give us the time.
Again, if articles like this one are not desired in WP, more exact rules for what constitutes a relevant article need to be defined. No offence! Cheers, Krankman 18:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Except for a couple of websites, focused mostly on Portugese, I don't see the references that Krankman mentions. What is the purpose, in an English-language encyclopedia, of this article? As for WP:NOT, this is a list of words. -Will Beback 19:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Of course I can't cite any titles at this moment, but there are papers on the subject. The purpose is to collect knowledge about as many things as possible, I suppose, isn't it? As I said, it's not supposed to be a list of words, but to evolve into something more meaningful if you give it time to grow. Krankman 22:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
An "article like that" would be I see a possible confusion here. The nominated article was List of loan words in Sri Lankan Tamil. After that someone moved it to "Loan words in Sri Lankan Tamil", with less worrying title and expanded it to make it more encyclopedic. Believing that not the page is heading into an encyclopedic direction, I am inclined to change my vote now:
Keep and expand with encyclopedic content. `'mikka (t) 19:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
For linguistically-defined lists of words we have wiktionary, which may have category wiktionary:Category:Loan words and subcategories thereof. `'mikka (t) 19:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Announcement: I've started a discussion on Misplaced Pages talk:What Misplaced Pages is not#Slang glossaries to discuss the fate of slang glossaries (such as this one) and to discuss whether or not the policy should be ammended to reflect the defacto acceptance of slang glossaries on Misplaced Pages. They are here, and based on the results of AfD discussions like this one, they seem to be here to stay. So shouldn't the policy be updated? It would sure save a lot of time and effort wasted on fruitless AfDs. You are welcome to join the discussion. --List Expert 09:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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