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User:Zeraeph

Following a report on AN/I about personal attacks on Talk:Asperger syndrome, Zeraeph was blocked for a week. There has been ongoing abuse by this user directed at SandyGeorgia for months - amongst other things, the allegations are that SandyGeorgia is stalking Zeraeph (in real life as well as on Misplaced Pages), using sockpuppets, and conspiring with administrators. There have been three mediation attempts, a request for checkuser which showed that the alleged sockpuppets were unconnected to SandyGeorgia, and frequent complaints to AN/I. Nobody who has looked at Zeraeph's allegations has come to the conclusion that there is any evidence for them at all, or that SandyGeorgia has done anything to provoke this. I've just extended Zeraeph's block to a month, because she was using her talk page to repeat the allegations despite being warned (by myself and Nandesuka who reviewed the initial block) that her only option now was to open an arbitration case or stop the abuse. Does anyone have any objections to a community ban? Zeraeph's article contributions are instructive. --ajn (talk) 10:37, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

i don't know how to say this politely, so I'll just say it. It's clear that editing Misplaced Pages is interacting poorly with, and perhaps aggravating, the particular issues this person has. A number of the things she or he says (particularly about being stalked for years by Misplaced Pages users, conspiracies reaching back into the past, multiple unrelated people out to "get" her) are classic symptoms of various problems that are very, very serious. Obviously, I don't think Zeraeph's editing is good for Misplaced Pages, but there's a more important issue. While normally I would say that this is the sort of thing that should go through Arbcom, I do not believe that any sort of formal proceeding involving a panel of strangers evaluating her behavior that will drag on for weeks and weeks is going to be healthy for this person. I think the most merciful thing we could do is to shut her down, and do it firmly and quickly.

For what it's worth, I feel that way about User:Doctor Octagon, too, although less strongly. Nandesuka 10:59, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The incoherence of the allegations and the inability to come up with even the slightest evidence for their reality is also typical. I've had to deal with this sort of thing in real life, and you're right about the best way to deal with it. --ajn (talk) 12:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

In addition to the point made by Nandesuka, the user's threatening comments here are extremely serious and support this approach. Newyorkbrad 14:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I've been dealing with Zeraeph on a more personal level, through email after an unblock request sent to the Unblock mailing list (for the record, I advised Zeraeph to take the block as an enforced Wikibreak and to be calm when the block is over). When conversing with me, Zeraeph has alternated between being quite calm and being very frustrated with the situation. I know that Zeraeph can be very calm and reasonable when approached the right way, and I also feel that Zeraeph very honestly feels that he (or she?) is being stalked online, off-Wiki as well as on. I think if I can look at what Zeraeph can present to me, I can either provide advice on actions to take, or possibly log an RfAR on Zeraeph's behalf if the information is valid.

As such, I'd like to volunteer to be a mentor (this would be my first time as a mentor), even during the block. I don't think a community ban is the answer. If you feel that Zeraeph will only cause more trouble in his talk page, the solution may be to protect the talk page so he can continue to converse with me. I don't think Zeraeph is ill-intentioned, but rather, feels that he has a valid complaint. I hope that if I can bring this off-wiki, and in private, we can deal with the situation without rubbing too many Wikipedians the wrong way. --Deathphoenix ʕ 15:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I have no objections to your trying. You should also contact SandyGeorgia privately; apparently she has been receiving unwanted e-mails regarding Zeraeph, and suspects that A Kiwi (talk · contribs) is involved (see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/A Kiwi, particularly the talk page). It could be (and this is pure speculation) that Zeraeph is being stalked online, but not by SandyGeorgia. My personal opinion is that this is going to be too complicated to achieve a workable on-wiki solution. Godspeed. Thatcher131 (talk) 15:20, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, your speculation had occurred to me too. For now, I don't think I need to be contacting SandyGeorgia via email just yet. I am open to on-Wiki communication if necessary. I don't want Zeraeph to feel like I am any part of this conspiracy, and for now I am just communicating one-on-one with Zeraeph. Currently, Zeraeph is being calm and reasonable with me (though clearly frustrated with the situation), and that may change if he thinks I'm carrying on any conversations with SandyGeorgia behind is back. I would like to wait until Zeraeph presents valid evidence that it is indeed SandyGeorgia that is doing the stalking. I can promise that I will keep an open mind, examine the evidence clearly, and not do anything rash or without thought. --Deathphoenix ʕ 15:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) :Last month, a situation arose that should have been addressed discreetly by senior administrators and with a minimum of public discussion. Instead, it became the topic of extensive discussion on-Wiki that caused egregious harm to vulnerable editors. Although the specifics here are different, this is an extremely serious situation involving allegations of an 8-year history of stalking, legal threats, potentially delusional scenarios, and psychological issues as mentioned by Nandesuka. I strongly believe in transparency on-Wiki, but there are limits. An RfAr under these circumstances would be a horror show and should not be suggested again. We need to be able to identify and deal with the(rare) sensitive situations like this that need to be investigated and resolved in a highly sensitive and confidential fashion. Newyorkbrad 15:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Nandesuka and Newyorkbrad. Zeraeph has been asked several times as part of mediation processes to put forward a coherent, evidence-based statement about what she thinks is going on. All that comes out is the typical conspiracy theory reasoning - the absence of evidence for the conspiracy is firm proof that the conspiracy is real and working well, there are special secret things going on that the "victim" can't explain (for reasons which themselves can't be explained), things are so obvious that a request for evidence is proof of the inquirer having underhand motives for asking the question, and so on. This is typical. I don't think Zeraeph is ill-intentioned, I think she is (literally) deluded. In any case, the abuse of SandyGeorgia has to stop, and on present form an arbitration case would just be used as a platform for further abuse, and would do Zeraeph no good at all. --ajn (talk) 15:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Zeraeph's talk page has been protected since this morning, by the way, because she was using it to continue the behaviour for which she had been blocked. --ajn (talk) 15:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

That's why I want to bring this discussion off-Wiki, so it doesn't hurt established Wikipedians. If I act as a filter, you can be sure that anything I present is, in my opinion, valid. I won't present anything that I don't think is valid. Right now, I have some pretty good dialog with Zeraeph. If I can keep this up, maybe Zeraeph and I can discuss this calmly. I would like for Zeraeph to eventually contribute positively to Misplaced Pages, but I also don't want for this situation to cause undue stress to Wikipedians. That's why I feel carrying on private dialog with Zeraeph without the threat of a community permaban (just the current temporary block) is best. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

If you think things have got to the stage where Zeraeph is willing to use User talk:Zeraeph appropriately, feel free to unprotect it. I wouldn't be at all happy with an unblock unless there is an arbitration case which has gone "live". --ajn (talk) 16:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

No, for now I think it's in Zeraeph's best interests to leave the talk page protected for now. I don't want Zeraeph to get into a situation where he (or she) will get blocked for even longer. I'm not advocating an unblock yet (indeed, when Zeraeph submitted an unblock request to the mailing list, I suggested that he take this block as an enforced Wikibreak): I'm only opposing the community ban (which is an indefinite block) as proposed here. I don't think a community bad is the answer here. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It could be (and this is pure speculation) that Zeraeph is being stalked online, but not by SandyGeorgia. I believe this to be true, based on the emails I have, but apparently it "takes two to tango": she has been stalked and has allegedly been a stalker as well. (Witness the threats against me: that she is going to have authorities deal with me in real life.) I'm not convinced that any amount of conversation or mentoring will be able to convince Zeraeph that I am not the stalker, because that person has an AOL account, and I have an AOL account which I use when I am in a hotel that doesn't have another internet connection. I appreciate your efforts, but I believe the other editors have valid points about dragging this out in public considering the issues involved: I, too, have encountered situations like this and have always believed that disengaging is the only way to handle them. I understand your concerns about contacting me privately in order to preserve your role as a mentor, but someone needs to look at these e-mails, and then deal with the AOL editors who appeared in the midst of this mess, complicating it even further. I have repeatedly encouraged those people to keep the off-Wiki situation off Wiki, to no avail. I am fairly certain at this point that the only person who is going to be damaged by all of this is me: yes, the edit history is instructive (and I'm having a lovely vacation :-). It also needs to be understood that Zeraeph's attacks on me began long before she thought I was "her stalker" and before I received the emails (the person emailed me to supposedly support me because of Zeraeph's attacks), so using that now as the rationalization for her behavior doesn't hold water. Best of luck to you, Sandy 16:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... okay, if you feel that I should look at this emails, send me an email at Special:Emailuser/Deathphoenix. I'm keeping an open mind and assuming good faith, on both sides. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect, someone else needs to look at them. While I understand and accept that you have an open mind and are assuming good faith, and I applaud your effort, the reality is that you don't see this as clearly as ajn, Nandesuka, many others and I do, and your role right now is as Zeraeph's advocate and mentor. First, I believe strongly in guarding the privacy of e-mail, and wouldn't want the information in these e-mails to fall into Zeraeph's hands, even unwittingly. Second, your relationship with her as a mentor is likely to be compromised if she knows you have corresponded with me: she has expressed several times that she is convinced that I can manipulate admins. Third, if the person who sent me the e-mails holds me responsible for the information falling into Zeraeph's hands, I am likely to have not one online problem out of this mess, but multiple. In short, I am the one at risk here, having done nothing to warrant this, and I need for an admin who is not Zeraeph's advocate and mentor to look at the information. Again, Zeraeph's attacks on me began long before she had any reason to involve off-Wiki disputes or to believe that I was one of the people she has had those disputes with: I merely happened to cross paths with her because of a FARC. I concur with ajn and Nandesuka's analysis of the situation: unless there is a very fast cessation of these attacks and recognition that there is no reason to believe I am one of the people Zeraeph has had off-Wiki disputes with, as soon as I'm home, I will bring the ArbCom case myself. I am the one who best knows where to find all the pieces and the dates. Sandy 17:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't forward the emails at all--contact the sender and inform him/her of Deathphoenix's offer to mentor. Let the sender decide. Thatcher131 (talk) 18:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

My once daily checkin: Brilliant solution, thanks. (I have never responded to the sender's emails, as I don't want to be part of the whole drama: it appears that the sender read this and has already contacted ajn.) I feel strongly that the sender needs to be protected. I also failed to make another thing clear yesterday: If the sender is to be considered a "stalker", the sender has violated no Wiki policies, and only came (apparently) to Wiki after seeing Zeraeph do to me what she has done elsewhere to others. Once I asked that I no longer receive these e-mails, they stopped. The sender has turned out to be right about everything I was warned about, so I consider the sender credible, and to be protected. Sandy 15:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah. I thought these emails were the harassing emails, not information sent by other people. In that case, that's fine, I'd rather not know. FWIW, I have yet to correspond with Zeraeph today, so I'm not sure how she feels about the whole thing (or even if I could be considered a mentor). All that is moot if she doesn't accept me as a mentor/advocate anyway. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

For whatever it might be worth at this point, I agree with ajn and others that this individual is not only very nasty but probably delusional, that everything reasonable that can be tried to get him or her to become a positive contributor to Misplaced Pages has been tried, failed and indeed has only made things worse, and that a community ban is both warranted and probably achievable. I attempted to be a voice of reason in the most recent mediation attempt, and the response was a) a repeat of precisely the same vague and barely coherent non-evidence that I was trying to get past and b) the most vicious and potentially libelous things Zeraeph had said on Misplaced Pages to date at the time. I seriously believe that he or she should, not only be off Misplaced Pages forever, but probably in jail or a mental institution as well for that response, and can't imagine how anyone could defend its author. I actually regret that my next response to Zeraeph was so mild - to be honest I skipped over most of the stalking accusations and so on the first time through. Not only were his comments about Sandy at that time completely outrageous toward her, they were rather a slap in the face to me as well. Ban with extreme prejudice. PurplePlatypus 02:11, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I've now had email from someone (not SG) offering to forward me the emails. This was my response:

I think the best thing would be for you to not forward the emails to anyone at this time - this is a Misplaced Pages problem and it's regrettable that off-Misplaced Pages problems have intruded. If anyone else feels it would be useful to know what was in them, I'll be happy to act as an intermediary and make sure that no personal information is divulged.

By "anyone else" I mean involved admins, of course. The person who emailed me stipulated that they were not to be passed directly to Deathphoenix. I think that's what was stipulated - re-reading the message, it could have meant "not to be passed to anyone who is trying to help Zeraeph". Either way, I've not seen them and I don't want to (unless it's necessary). --ajn (talk) 10:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

There's not much in the emails that anyone with eyes wide open can't figure out, or that will be news to you, ajn. The problem is, they do contain identifying information, and if I redacted that information, I couldn't forward the emails with headers. At any rate, I want this to end. It is taking as much of my time as bringing an ArbCom case would, and when I return from vacation, I will have lots of Wiki work to catch up on. I still agree with those who said an ArbCom case will not be good for Wiki or good for Zeraeph, but I have a feeling if I don't bring the case, I'll still be responding to this issue months from now. It is with some irony that I noted the comments above that Zeraeph was "frustrated". This is a situation wholly caused by her and brought upon herself by no one but her, with me as the target, so I'm not entirely sympathetic anymore to her frustration. The people who followed her to Wiki certainly complicated a situation which Wiki admins could have handled, but they followed her to Wiki because she apparently continued a pattern of abuse here she has engaged in elsewhere. I'll check in tomorrow. Sandy 15:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with all of this, apart from this stigma that seems to be attached to my good faith attempts to help someone (I'd like to think that I'm mature and experienced enough not to let my attempts to help Zeraeph get in the way of doing what's best for Misplaced Pages and in not making unjustified attacks for someone). You guys are beginning to make me wish I hadn't replied to Zeraeph's request to the Unblock mailing list. --Deathphoenix ʕ 16:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone doubts your good faith or integrity. What's worrying some of us is that any further attempts to give Zeraeph a chance to defend herself will be abused by her. See her recent post to wikien-l, for example. I firmly believe that the most helpful thing that could be done right now is a permanent block and no more discussion, here or offline. Engaging with someone in her state and trying to reason with her is very unlikely to help anyone. --ajn (talk) 17:14, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

As with ajn, I don't doubt your good faith or integrity. I doubt Zeraeph's good faith and integrity. It's very nice of you to offer to help this individual, but I believe it to be naïve; all you are likely to accomplish is to directly or indirectly give him or her a platform for further abusive actions (as happened with my own attempt to introduce some rationality into the debate), and that's not a desirable outcome no matter how good the intentions of the person doing it. Zeraeph is not above attempting the same kind of manipulation of which s/he is so quick to accuse others, and I believe that is likely what will prove to be happening here. PurplePlatypus 19:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm experienced enough to not let facetious or invalid information leak to Misplaced Pages via my own edits. What I hope to accomplish is to look at Zeraeph's information closely and either tell her that the information doesn't indicate too much or find some way of correcting the situation if it does. Since most of you believe that her information is invalid, you shouldn't be too worried, because while I genuinely want to help Zeraeph, I also want to make sure that she is either made aware that her accusations are unmerited or that, if they are, I can help her correct the situation. My dealing with her gives her a way of dealing with someone on Misplaced Pages. It does not mean that she has a meatpuppet who will blindly post anything that she writes. Currently, she is blocked from Misplaced Pages (a block that I'm not contesting), and her talk page is also protected (which, despite your offer to allow me to unprotect, remains protected). This pretty much means that the only ways she can communicate with someone on Misplaced Pages are through email, and that's where I come in. What she writes goes to me. Yes, I read her recent post to the mailing list and while it's a little troubling, the language isn't over-the-top. If it becomes as such, the listmods will likely ban her from the mailing list anyway. Which once again just leaves me to deal with her. What's the harm in that? I'm not a vexatious litigant, and I'm not ignorant either. Sometimes, just sweeping something under the rug and ignoring it isn't the answer. ajn, you must know that we don't hand out permanent blocks like candy. Community bans only become as much if someone permablocks the user and no other admin bothers to unblock. I am fine with this long block you've put her on while I try to deal with this user, but I won't stand idly by and see this user get permanently blocked while I've got some fruitful dialog with her. And this fruitful dialog is nothing that everyone else should be stressed out about either. I'm not an ignorant meatpuppet who allows any statements made by anyone cloud how he sees other users. If result of my discussions with her are that she should stop editing Misplaced Pages, then so be it. I actually suggested that plan of action in our discussions, and she may consider it if it seems she can't edit Misplaced Pages without resolving these issues, but I would like me and Zeraphael to make that determination for ourselves, not via a community ban forced upon her. --Deathphoenix ʕ 18:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

"you must know that we don't hand out permanent blocks like candy" - I'd hardly say this is candy, this user should have been blocked a while ago. Constant, unrepenting harrassment of other editors; and yes, I've had a bit of first-hand experience in the articles as well (although thankfully I was never the target but I tried to defend those who were). Please, let this one rest in peace so this user can solve his/her issues; Misplaced Pages is not a very good place to do that, in fact it usually just makes them worse; LOL!!! RN 19:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the candy remark bugged me too. DP, you're making it sound like all he did was swear at someone or something like that. Frankly, trivializing Zeraeph's offenses, such as calling someone an "erotomanic stalker", is rather offensive. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but at best failing to consider how that might come across backs up my above charge of naïvety. PurplePlatypus 20:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I didn't mean it that way, and I resent the implication that I'm naive. You're entitled to your opinion, and I know you didn't mean it that way, but I find your remark at least as insulting as my inadvertent remark about candy. You'd be singing a different tune if you were to look at the nature of my discussions with Zeraeph. I am by no means trivialising what Zeraeph has done, and I am not saying that what she did was minor. What I am saying is that community banning Zeraeph will not solve these problems of which you speak. And no, I am not saying Misplaced Pages is therapy either. I am dealing with Zeraeph off-wiki. How many times do I have to say that? I am dealing with Zeraeph off-wiki. That and the fact that she is already being blocked for a month should be sufficient. I do not support a community ban. You guys are asking for a community ban, and I'm not supporting it. Simple as that. If you guys want to file an arbitration case to get her banned for a year, that's fine, go ahead and file, I have no problems with Misplaced Pages processes being followed. But if you think you can get her banned through a unanimous community ban, I'm afraid you are mistaken. --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, first of all, as I understand a community ban does not need to be unanimous. Leaving that aside, though, let me come at this from a slightly different angle. Could you please explain what positive result for Misplaced Pages you hope or expect to accomplish? Under what circumstances do you think Zeraeph should be permitted to edit again, and what benefits do you beleive will result when that happens? You can deal with Zeraeph off-wiki as much as you like, and as long as it stays off-wiki it's no real concern of mine (though I can see why Sandy might have a different view), it's the potential ON-wiki consequences that bother me. PurplePlatypus 20:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it does have to be unanimous. A community ban is simply an indefinite block that other admins can't be bothered to undo. If a single admin wants to undo an indefinite block as a result of a community ban, that community ban will not hold. To have an enforceable ban on a user requires the approval from ArbCom, Jimbo, or via an office action, and unless things have changed since I last paid attention to it, ArbCom can only hand out one-year blocks on main accounts (sockpuppet accounts are another matter). As to your next question, I was hoping to tiptoe around it before, but I'll be frank. I believe that if you simply hand out a blanket block, Zaphrael will continue to find a way to make life difficult for the said parties. While I understand how harrying it is for you people, I may have found another angle with Zaphrael and how to approach her. She's already been blocked for a month, and right now, she can't really do anything on Misplaced Pages, unless she chooses to get around the block by using sockpuppets or anon IPs, but from what I see in our emails, Zaphrael is fully aware that I will not help her at all if she breaks the block on her in this fashion. I'm reviewing her information in a neutral manner, and I can have feedback that I can give her. Whatever the result, I can act appropriately. --Deathphoenix ʕ 08:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

That's actually a reasonable answer that I am a lot more comfortable with. That being the case, good luck. PurplePlatypus 17:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. As I stated below, I hope Zeraeph and I can come to an agreement. --Deathphoenix ʕ 15:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

What's worrying some of us is that any further attempts to give Zeraeph a chance to defend herself will be abused by her. See her recent post to wikien-l, for example. ajn I do not have access to, nor have time while on vacation, to track down this post, but if she is continuing to smear my name, I hope someone has either saved that information or will forward it to me so that I will have a record of it for any potential ArbCom case. I am relieved to see that others have (finally) noted the severity of the statements Zeraeph has made against me, since I was surprised at the initial mild responses, considering how severely she has attacked me in so many places, with no foundation. Phoenix, I have no doubt at all of your good faith effort, but I do wonder if you've had experience with the particular issues and behaviors in evidence. I would also like to have an idea if there is a concensus here as to whether I should bring the Arbcom case. If some admins finally realize what I've been attempting to ignore, I will be glad to continue to ignore it if others think that is best for Wiki and she can be prevented from the continued attacks and smears, which are clearly beyond the pale of anything I've encountered on Wiki. On the other hand, if others feel I should bring the case, I'm willing. It's not fair, but it is what it is. Sandy 18:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Please see my response above. And yes, I have experience with these particular issues and behaviours (admittedly, not as a formally trained professional) and it is precisely because of this experience that I am approaching it this way. Think of it this way: she's already blocked for a month and her talk page is protected. If she decides to write any further emails to the mailing list that the listmods deem unacceptable, they will reject it. Any of her other activities beyond this will be outside of Misplaced Pages, and these actions may occur regardless of whether she is community banned from Misplaced Pages or not. Please, this time is mine to use (and in all of your opinions, to waste). While I understand how harrying this is for you, I believe this would be equally harrying whether I expend this effort or not. At least give me the chance to expend this effort, try to talk to Zaphrael, and have us (me and Zaphrael) both come to an agreement on something before we act on it. --Deathphoenix ʕ 08:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that a community ban won't stop her from harassing me, and my concern is that she will use socks and proxies, and may impersonate me. I have no concerns about off-Wiki attempts or activities: I have never encountered her off-Wiki, and to put it plainly, Zeraeph thinks she knows who I am, but since she's wrong and I'm not who she thinks I am, there is no chance she can harm me in real life or off-Wiki. The only concern is on-Wiki, so I am in agreement with any approach that might work in the long-term. As I've said from the beginning, I'm willing to follow whatever approach is best for Wiki, and will hopefully keep me safe from longer-term attacks via socks, proxies, and impersonations. I just hope others will have my back, because the viciousness is alarming. Sandy 16:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Even while Zeraeph (I keep misspelling her name!) and I are engaging in useful dialog, I am aware of the possibility that she could be doing these things. If she is making any on-Wiki attacks via socks and open proxies, let me know and I will look into these cases myself or, if you are asking another admin to look into this, please let me know regardless. Misplaced Pages mentorship goes both ways: mentors are supposed to help and guide the people that they are mentoring, but they also issue warnings and blocks if the people they are mentoring continue with un-Wiki behaviour. However, sockpuppet and impersonator accounts can be blocked indefinitely, and this would not be contentious at all. If the account attacking you is a sockpuppet of Zeraeph, I would have no problem with an indef block because Zeraeph is getting around her block in an un-Wiki manner, and if the account attacking you is an impersonator of Zeraeph, she would happily have that account indef blocked because it's trying to get her punished even more. The simplest thing to do would simply be to indef block a sock or impersonator account (or temporarily block the IP) and revert any edits that those accounts make without further action. If, however, a CheckUser confirms the accounts as belonging to Zeraeph, further action would be relevant. I feel confortable saying this because I am certain that Zeraeph would not engage in sockpuppetry while we are in useful dialog, but have no problems with fixing anything that happens because of my misplaced trust. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'm comfortable that you should be allowed time to see if you can attain a more workable long-term solution, as my concern has always been how I could be safe in the long-term, knowing that short-term approaches and blocks might not help. I hope the admins who said they would bring the ArbCom case if I didn't will also give this some time. I am willing to wait. Sandy 17:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Hopefully Zeraeph and I can come to an agreement. --Deathphoenix ʕ 12:22, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Torinir and ajn both mentioned they would be off-Wiki: I will leave a message on ajn's talk page. Sandy 23:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I've observed a little of the behaviour of Zeraeph, and would like to add that I feel great disquiet about the effect on what should be serious, professional work on WP. I'd be relieved if something could be done about it. (I should disclose that I'm a Wikifriend of Sandy's.) Tony 15:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe myself and Justdignity made some important contributions to the Bully and Workplace Bullying topics back around May 2006 but the text kept on being immediately deleted by Zeraeph on the basis of no citations. But very little else on those topics had citations either. Zeraeph said she would be happy to reinstate my text if it had citations. But that left me at her mercy as to whether in her view i had enough citations or in the right places. She should have left my text in place with citation markers in place and I would have gladly provided citations. On her basis i hardly felt motivated to bother doing any more work. I would love to contribute more to the Bully, Workplace Bullying and NPD topics but not with Zeraeph around. --Penbat 15:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Please also check the huge number of revealing comments made by Zeraeph on http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Bully I even created a subtopic called Zeraeph on that page back in May. The "Characteristic of Bullies subtopic" is also particularly revealing. User "Justdignity" makes the following revealing comment about Zeraeph: "I have read some of the feedback on your page and I realise Penbat and I are not the only ones to have fallen foul of your personal crusade to uphold what you think is WIki policy. While I accept Wiki policy applies to me, please will you accept that it applies to you too." --Penbat 19:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I am the aforementioned Justdignity and have to say that my introduction to Wiki editing was short and thoroughly disenchanting thanks Zeraeph's perceived need to control (i.e. delete) user input, justified by non-sequitur commentary (i.e. nonsense). I retreated from Wiki because I had (and have) better things to do with my life than to waste my time grovelling to Zeraeph. However, I would be happy to consider completing the work I started if I knew that Zeraeph had been permanently blocked. Justdignity 13:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Zeraeph had a large role in the banning of Sam Vaknin. In my view Zeraeph's contributions were poisonous. Sam Vaknin is a self proclaimed narcissist but not in my view a malicious narcissist like Zeraeph. Like him or loath him he is an important authority in the understanding of narcissism. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Sam_Vaknin and http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sam_Vaknin If you strip away Zeraeph's comments you dont have too much left to damn Sam Vaknin and some of the other comments were because others were taken in by Zeraeph's poison. I hope that Sam Vaknin can be reinstated. --Penbat 18:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to add that I think that some of the others putting the knife into Sam Vaknin were Zeraeph sock puppets. Penbat 19:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

About the only person not in favour of an immediate ban on Zeraeph is DeathPhoenix. Zeraeph has got form. She has a highly manipulative personality. For her, acting this way is a compulsion. Any idea of negotiating with her to reach agreement is doomed to failure. It is very naive to even try. She may play mind games and pretend to agree to a compromise solution but she would just be bluffing. It is Misplaced Pages that is much more important than the welfare of one contributor - Zeraeph. Why should we have to endure any more of her poison ? --Penbat 21:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

THE SYNOPSIS for those who don't want to read all this * More Wiki situations found re/Zeraeph's problem behaviors * Zeraeph tells of 8 years grudge, showing she brought off-Wiki matters to Misplaced Pages. -I am Kiwi 23:33, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

My first involvement in the Z-affair was very tangential. I visited Keyne's Talk page to thank him for his plea for Z to halt her disruptive posting on the Asperger Syndrome talk page. The talk page had become emotionally stressful just to read and try to keep up with the others (a steadily dwindling number).

Then came the last of the attempted Mediations. I saw her refusal to cooperate and to divert attention from the issue. Then here, RN and others say they have had problems, too. I decided to check out her contributions history and so far I have, in this short time, found that she has gone after a PhD psychologist by impugning the quality of his education and, seemingly, his relationship with an online mental health site. She then implied that he wasn't at all qualified to write about the topic.

I found situations which indicates Z brought one, perhaps more, old grudges with people in the mental disorders topics. I recognized Penbat from years ago from a bullying forum where he is a moderator and where the two of them had conflict. Penbat was easy to spot as he uses his screen name everywhere.

Most disturbing of anything I saw was the long page of posts I found when I went looking for the man who wrote the rebuttal to the Vaknin opinion article. User_talk:Ta_bu_shi_da_yu/Global_Politician

This was the ending where she revealed that she has been personally upset with Sam for many years. On that page, many of her posts indicate her problems with him were of long duration before she came to Misplaced Pages. However, when I went hunting, her posts to Samvak started only in February of 2006, and she showed no sign of knowing him at all and he did not recognize her until later.

Under the SubTopic entitled TIMEOUT!!!! by Ta bu shi da yu

Folks, my article was never to whale on Sam! I responded to his points, and asked for his response and he only responded with an ad hominem attack. Please, we should not be doing the same in kind. I realise he's frustrating, but it gets us nowhere to have a go at him. Please, some kindness and patience for this critic of Misplaced Pages! He's absolutely no threat to us, and even if he was, we should not be too harsh on him anyway. - Ta bu shi da yu 15:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

You wouldn't say that if you knew him.

The guy has spent almost 8 years cold-bloodedly, deliberately playing cruel little games with the heads of as many extremelly vulnerable, damaged people as he can rope in, and determinedly crushing anyone he percieves as "getting in his way", including, but not limited to, the kind of tactics you have seen around "The Six Sins of the Misplaced Pages".

To Sam Vaknin "kindness" and "patience" are just contemptable weaknesses in others to be exploited. So don't waste them on him.

Truth and fairness are the best he deserves. --Zeraeph 16:03, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe so, but this is not the forum for such matters. Blogs and places like Kuro5hin are best for such matters. - Ta bu shi da yu 16:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe so, but I don't think this is the place to request "kindness and patience" for someone like that under circumstances where to extend either would be to leave oneself open to abuse.

Still it might be best if discussion of the man himself, as opposed to the specific article in question, were to move over to Talk:Sam Vaknin? --Zeraeph 16:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

-I am Kiwi 23:33, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Research request

Please do not delete this post without discussion with James F..

Hello I'm a member of the research team at Palo Alto Research Center (formerly known as Xerox PARC) interested in understanding conflict in Misplaced Pages. A number of other admins and James Forrester (a member of the Wiki Research community) have supported our research, and we hope that you also will support our endeavor. We are currently running a survey to understand how administrators characterize conflict. If you would like to help in our research on Misplaced Pages please complete the survey at the link below:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=272072498578

Please note that we are committed to providing quality research to the Misplaced Pages community. The results of the survey will be incorporated into an academic paper that will be submitted to a peer-reviewed conference this fall (likely the CHI conference), and will be freely available to any interested parties. A link to this publication will be posted on my user page. You can look at the preliminary results of our first survey in which we targeted members of the Mediation Cabal to get an idea of the kinds of questions we are interested in.

We are not journalists or spammers but an established research institution with a strong track record of high-quality publications. Here are links to find out more about our team (the User Interface Research group) and our past research, including studies on characterizing the web. Thank you for your help! Parc wiki researcher 17:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove this request. It is the third bloody time we've had to put it up, and I'm tired of people massively mis-interpreting Policy. Do not attempt become the third sysop to endure my wrath over this. ;-)

In as much as I have the authority so to do (which is not great), I welcome the research efforts from PARC. Please take this as sufficient to quell any doubts you might have about the authenticity of the request.

James F. (talk), Wikimedia CRO. 22:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Any chance that a bot can be created to automatically send a copy of the complteted research to our (interested users) talk pages? Just a thought. RVTA 22:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

if they have done this before why are they not hoasting on thier own servers and why are they not trying to contact people directly rather than useing theier current setup which gives them no control over who fills it in. It also asks about articles and then provides a list that includes a portal. Result obtained are likely to be largely useless.Geni 23:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a valid point: How are the respondents being vetted? Is there a possiblity of creating a seperate page in userspace to ask these questions without clogging up the noticeboard? RVTA 00:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Just to respond to the above questions: Geni, we are using SurveyMonkey to host the survey, which is a common tool used in the research community. The articles/portals are selected using an algorithm which we will discuss more in the paper. RVTA, originally we targeted a randomly selected (by name) group of admins, but people told us to post here instead of to individual user pages. If the WP community has a better idea for a method for researchers to interact with the community, we'd definitely be interested in hearing it. Thanks! Parc wiki researcher 19:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If you use your own domain to host serveys people are going to tend to be less paranoid.Geni 21:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

A problem I see is that there is no way to ensure you are getting answers from administrators and editors, or trolls and passers-by. Anyone can do the survey and anyone can fill in whatever username they wish to impersonate. A better way might be to send e-mail messages with unique passwords. —Centrx→talk • 21:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I just took the survey and the research methodology seems to be at best lacking. The articles one was asked to look at are clearly not randomly selected but the procedure they were selected by doesn't seem at all clear either. There were other issues I had but I don't want to taint the study by going into them now. JoshuaZ 02:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Brodycloss and Cast members of Laguna Beach

User:Brodycloss moved Cast members of Laguna Beach tp ==Talan Torriero==, one of the characters on the show. To me, at least, it's a pretty obvious case of vandalism, and I'd undo it, but I have no idea how to safely undo a page move. Thanks. -- ArglebargleIV 23:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

• I took care of it. All better. :) – ClockworkSoul 23:58, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you! -- ArglebargleIV 17:36, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Midnight TOKer seems to be an imposter of User:MidnightTOKer in order to vandalize David Quinn (actor)

Basically, this account seems to have been created to vandalize the article David Quinn (actor). Round about the end of the school year last year there was a minor controversy surrounding that article. The new user duplicated the talk page and user page of the other user. Plus their only contribution besides their user page was the above mentioned article, and their only edit was to reinstate a non verifiable sentence that another single use account added.TheRingess 00:52, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

It's either a mistake or an impostor. I blocked User:Midnight TOKer, let's see what it has to say for itself. Guy 10:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

User Deleting comments.

User "IrishGuy" insists on deleting comments; this has happened to several users over the course of the last week. I am not alone. This is Vandalism according to[REDACTED] policies. Despite warnings, he persists. Please do something to help preserve wikipedia.

an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3A75.8.108.201&diff=74816340&oldid=74815940

The comments I deleted on my own talk page were abusive comments from annoyed users whose article was deleted under AfD. This is well within the parameters of WP:TALK which states: Actively erasing non-harassing personal messages without replying (if a reply would be appropriate or polite) will probably be interpreted as hostile. In the past, this kind of behavior has been viewed as uncivil, and this can become an issue in arbitration or other formal proceedings. Additionally, the user who posted this has been banned multiple times today for harassment and vandalism. IrishGuy 01:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

It happened again: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3A75.8.108.201&diff=74819025&oldid=74818455

Nothing was erased on the page in question by myself, only by IrishGuy. I have never been banned from[REDACTED] and do not appreciate the libelous accusation. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else? Still, this does not exuse your vandalism of my comments. Administrators, I implore your to take decisive action against this vandal. Thank you.

Actually, neither of those link show me removing anything. This link, however, does show you removing a comment and claiming that I am responsible for removing comments. Also, your first edit is identical to the edits of other blocked users: , , . So yes, you have been blocked numerous times today. Please stop harassing me. IrishGuy 01:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought I'd come by and say what I've seen. Irishguy has just been reverting nuisance messages, and I believe reverting the removal of legitimate warnings on sockpuppet IPs. 75.8.108.201 has a track record of leaving miscellaneous unsigned comments on talk pages, and then (for some unknown reason) removing or tampering with the {{Unsigned}} tags. Since being told to stop their actions, 75.8.108.201 and suspected sockpuppets have attacked Irishguy (and now several other editors who've interviened in this case) by doing things like vandalising his User and User talk page. Also makes some wild accusations, such as Irish 'removing' messages in a previous edit and how 75.8.108.201 was going to be warning him shortly via the edit note. In that case, Irish was simply reverting the tampering with {{Unsigned}} --Sagaciousuk 09:52, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Anon blocked for trolling. Nothing to see here, move along now... Guy 09:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I would just like to point out that this 75.8.107.95 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has done some recent vandalism too. Ryūlóng 10:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Just another user trying to make life hard for admins, nothing new here. Basically per JzG.--Andeh 12:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Jason Fortuny and Craigslist Privacy incident

Jason Fortuny is the guy who posted a fake personal ad on Craigslist and then put the emails and photos he received in response on ED. I'm rather concerned about elements of the ED page - especially the victims' personal details and photos - making it into the article, considering the following this guy seems to have on ED and LJ. Personally, I'd love to go all rouge and just delete the thing as unencyclopedic, but I don't think it qualifies for a speedy. Anyone disagree, or barring that, anyone mind watchlisting? -- Vary | Talk 04:50, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I sent it to AFD. Dragons flight 05:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

You did right. I nuked it. The WP:BLP concerns are pretty much insurmountable - there is no appropriately neutral and reliable source for an article on this person, and several people on the AfD pointed this out. With several experienced editors in agreement that no copliant article can be compiled from the available sources, killing it before the puppet theatre starts seemed the smart move. Guy 09:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree for now although I think this got mentioned on slashdot. However a mention on slashdot hardly constitues enough reliable sources to write an article anyways and it is hard to see how an essentially internet based phenomenon can count as notable with only one such reference. Between these problems and the WP:BLP issues this was a correct decision. JoshuaZ 00:00, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't really agree with the protection of the page though. The story could still build you see, if say, someone visits Jason with a brick. I think salting the earth may be a bit premature, but it's suitable as a temporary measure until the "drama" dies down. This story has been picked up in Metro BBC, and in numerous blogs such as Wired and Waxy.org. - Hahnchen 15:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Salting is overused, though warranted here. I'm sure there's a de-salting procedure in the event something drastic were to change. Newyorkbrad 16:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• What's ED? - Mgm| 21:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Encyclopedia Dramatica. Dragons flight 21:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Endorse the speedy deletion. This was a serious privacy issue for many non-prominent people. Newyorkbrad 00:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2006 September 11#Jason_Fortuny - the ED crowd are kicking up the usual fuss. Guy 22:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• I'm not connected to ED in any way, and I disagree with the above characterization of the debate on DRV. When I looked for news sources, I found several meeting WP:RS (including BBC News and the Associated Press), providing more than enough information to support a reasonable article about this person. Given that, I think it's entirely appropriate for people to "kick up a fuss" at DRV. If we're concerned about the privacy of the poor bastards who got caught in his sick little trap, then don't put any of their personal information in the article (and apply appropriate punishment to anyone who tries to add it). -Hit bull, win steak 02:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

• These are about a privacy incident not about a person. We can cover this with a paragraph in an article on online privacy, and that is no problem, but we have no sources about Jason Fortuny, only sources which mention Jason Fortuny in the context of a privacy issue. This is also a perfect example of the proiblems caused by indecent haste to document things on The Internets - the Google index had not even seen those news sources when I searched yesterday. There being no deadline, why not wait and see how it pans out? Guy 08:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

• A lack of verifiable info from reliable sources was the main issue raised at the AFD, and now that those sources are available, it seems reasonable to revisit the result of the discussion. If we need sources covering other aspects of Mr. Fortuny's life, there's no harm in adding what we have now and filling in the gaps later as the information becomes available. As for the Google news thing, Google is nice but it's not the be-all and end-all of info-tracking. If an article meets our policies and guidelines, Google's opinion shouldn't really factor into the decision. -Hit bull, win steak 15:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I've commented at the deletion discussion, to which I would draw attention, and won't repeat myself here -- except to note that if this article were to come back, which I hope it won't, it will have to be continually monitored for privacy and legal issues, possibly by WP:OFFICE. Incivility in some of the comments on the DRV may also warrant admin attention. Newyorkbrad 15:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

William Pietri, one of my favourite purveyors of neutrality and civility in heated situations, has written this up in Internet privacy#Noted_cases. I suggest a redirect and leave it at that for now. Guy 18:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

As noted, page will need to be monitored closely for privacy violations. Newyorkbrad 02:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"Sergei" username.

Trying to create an account with username "Sergei" fails with error "Username entered already in use". But there is no user/talk/contribs page for Sergei. I'd like to register as Sergei, because it is my real name. Is there something that can be done about that? 213.148.24.18 08:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

That username is taken, you can always tell by typing in the user page (User:Sergei), and if the 'User contributions' button is in the toolbox, the name is taken. There was discussion at Misplaced Pages:Delete unused username after 90 days about the subject so you might have better luck with it in the future. - Bobet 09:49, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

You (if you're reading this thread) could also register a variation, Sergei1 or SergeiX or whatever. Newyorkbrad 20:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course. I wonder now will script or whatever from Bug 6614 be ever executed. The bug looks abandoned with the last comment dated July 23. That's sad :(. 213.148.24.18 07:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Etaonsh

Fred Bauder blocked Etaonsh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for gross incivility, making an ongoing request for arbitration moot. I'd just like to register the fact that if he had not blocked, I would have. This user has a habit of calling others "nazis" in edit summaries, and of including uncited and highly biased content into articles. There being few if any redeeming edits, a discretionary block is entirely reasonable. I'm guessing Mgm would also have endorsed this. So: user indef-blocked, bringing here so that everyone knows and so that if we hear about further nonsense on Emil Kraepelin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) we'll know who it is and what to do about it. Guy 10:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

• Etaonsh was the username of the user who filed the RFAr with londheart as his signature. My comment in the RFAr should say how I thought about this user. I recommended the Arbcom to take the case, if they decide to block immediately, I'm fine with it. - Mgm| 21:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Mass editprotected interwiking required

From Misplaced Pages talk:Selected anniversaries/January 3:

Please, can somebody (an administrator) add the interwikis to this kind of templates (selected anniversaries templates) if it is possible? Only the month of january yet. I would do it myself but it's impossible. The interwiki of this day is ] and the next days are similar; only changes the number (], ]... ...]). It seems that bots do not run with administrator rights, so a bot cannot do that task. Thanks in advance. If there are any trouble, my talk page is always open for questions. Berria · (talk) 23:11, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not too keen on continually doing these edits by hand, so does anyone else have a suggestion on how we can do this, or are we too scared to give a bot +sysop strictly for interwiking editprotected pages and have it switched on only when required? --  Netsnipe  ►  13:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiSearch - why not?

Hello

Would it make sense to include a new search utility run by users?For instance,all relevent search results from search engines(google,yahoo..) could be added by the user along with contextual information.This would help other users looking for such a link. Are there any copyright implications in posting links found from commercial search engines.I think this would be a good source for non-commercial search that users have found useful.

Regards MikeSam —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.135.197.101 (talk • contribs) .

If this was to be a WikiMedia project, Meta would be a better place to propose it. And, yes, search companies do hold copyright on their results. And this idea, in part, already exists as dmoz (not a WikiMedia site). But keep up the generation of ideas and thanks! ➨ ЯEDVERS 18:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hm, just curious; how does Dogpile () stay around? (or do they pay for the service?) —AySz88\^-^ 18:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK, a metasearch engine isn't infringing the database rights of the original database so long as the originating database is credited. This would be similar to our WP:FU in images. But a search engine that, for instance, provided a frontend for Google results and reported nothing but Google results back, but didn't credit them and had no further use other than to do so would not be fair use. Certainly search engines could ask to be excluded, and meta searches could refuse to do so, but it would all end up in court. But like "fair use" on images, so far it hasn't happened. IANAL. The use of the logos on Dogpile suggests a contract, though. ➨ ЯEDVERS 19:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Database rights are a concept that exists in Europe but which is not mirrored in the US. The US does not allow copyright to be applied to mechanically generated collections or organizations of factual information. If you live in the US you would be entirely within your rights to simply parrot the URLs returned by Google (though you might get in trouble if the presentation of your results stylistically imitated Google, or your actions gave the impression of being sanctioned by them). More likely Google would just block you for running too many queries. I have no idea what specific arrangements Dogpile may have made, however. Dragons flight 19:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Khoikhoi's probation rescinded

Khoikhoi's probation, a remedy imposed in the Aucaman arbitration, has been rescinded by the Arbitration Committee .

For the arbitration committee. --Tony Sidaway 18:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Freestylefrappe limited to one account

Freestylefrappe, who has been disruptive since he was desysopped, is limited henceforth to editing from one account .

For the Arbitration Committee. --Tony Sidaway 18:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

AfD not completed

The AfD for Ex-christian shows that closing consensus was to merge with Apostasy...but that never happened. That was a few months ago. Did something change? IrishGuy 19:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Probably nothing changed, but no one ever bothered to do it. Feel free to do the merge yourself. Joyous! | Talk 19:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an admin. IrishGuy 19:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to be.--Doc 19:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If there's a clear consensus for anything on AfD (other than a delete, and then only for tool-having reasons) then carry out the consensus. Every user should be acting like an admin in general edits, so acting like one in AfD etc is good too. It also proves trustworthiness in tool-having, which is the main criterion (other users' mileage may differ) for being given the tools. When users nominate for a speedy delete, they should be acting as an admin - given a different universe, they would be deleting the article; if something is reported to WP:ANI that can be dealt with without tools, then users should deal with it - given a different universe, they would be dealing with it.

Adminship is all about the tools and nothing whatsoever about anything else. We have useless users and useless admins. We have very good users who are admins and very good users who aren't. We have people who need the tools for what they do here and users who don't need them. Adminship is no big deal. If it's an "admin job" but doesn't need admin tools, then it's an "editor job" - and can and should be done by anyone. ➨ ЯEDVERS 20:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

OK. I merged the content and redirected Ex-Christian to Apostasy. I just didn't want to step on any toes so I wanted to make sure this was something I was legitimately able to do. Thanks. IrishGuy 20:41, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

new topic: can we have a more informative rollback choice?

I assume most of us revert vandalism using the rollback choice but you notice it leaves no explanation of the reason. There are a few other categories of "rollback on sight", such as removing linkspam or removing personal info or removing personal attack or removing edit by banned person. I am sure a few others might occur to people. Is anyone else in favor of asking the developers for a choice of, say, 5 or 6 rollback buttons that function like the present one but put a brief explanatory phrase in the edit summary? alteripse 20:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If it's anything other than vandalism, rollback isn't appropriate. I'm sure we've all broken that rule now and again, but to be honest, it's generally a good one. If you need to undo an edit for any other reason than vandalism, then you need to manually explain whay you're doing. Doing so will also help you think twice about reverting in the first place. ➨ ЯEDVERS 20:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

A related question, what can be done for admins who continuously use rollback for reverts during edit disputes, and other cases where no obvious vandalism/link spam etc has occurred? I have tried politely requesting them in such cases, but most of the time, the offending admin simply ignores and does it again and again. --Ragib 20:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest not doing anything, since there is nothing wrong with doing so. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

There is of course problems in abusing admin features in edit disputes. According to WP:ADMIN#Reverting, Do not use one-click rollback on edits that are not simple vandalism; please revert manually with an appropriate edit summary.. --Ragib 20:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If an admin repeatedly uses the rollback feature to get the upper hand in an edit war they should first be reported for violating 3RR or the spirit of the rule if appropriate, then send to arbcom if they keep ignoring requests not to. - Mgm| 20:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I cannot see how using rollback is any different from leaving a blank or uninformative edit summary. 3RR is already taken care of. There is already guidance to not describe a good-faith edit as vandalism. Misusing one's position as an admin is understood to be wrong no matter what mechanism is used. How is using the rollback button worse than leaving as a summary "restored NPOV"? Tom Harrison 19:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the interface clutter is worth the trouble. Rollback is, in the vast majority of cases, used where the reason for its use is obvious. If an editor is confused or perplexed about why an admin used rollback in a particular circumstance, a polite talk page request usually clears matters right up. For admins (or other editors, for that matter) who would like more specific or more customizable rollback buttons, my understanding is that there are any number of homebrew scripts available for download these days. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know, we don't do that with edit wars, etc. So where can I find a "homebrew script" that would let me make a small menu of edit summaries for rollback? alteripse 02:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Admin rollback has always been for vandalism only. If admins are making an edit decision, they should do it manually like everyone else, and leave an edit summary to explain the edit (which rollback can't do). This is for good communication with other editors. Past discussions about this feature have been unambiguous. Tyrenius 07:38, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

All points agreed as above. This is about how, not when and whether. I am suggesting/requesting a measure to increase ease and detail of communication for those rollbacks that do not warrant a talk page discussion but might not look like obvious vandalism. I am one of those editors who feel a much stronger conversation obligation to named users with accounts than to anon IPs but would like to leave a more informative message than the automatic "reverted". Please don't repeat the points already stipulated, thanks. alteripse 12:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

On usernames... again

Ok, fine, I'll work for getting Reformed Vandal when I'm a more established editor... to get started on this I've been doing some useful work on random articles tonight, and am going to patrol rc for a bit after posting this message. Anyway, users Dave and David both exist, but neither have done anything. May I please have one of these usernames? I really want to have a proper username so that everything I do can be associated with me, but at the same time am pretty picky about the username itself. 84.9.83.105 22:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe David and an initial? JoshuaZ 22:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If the accounts haven't made an edit, maybe a 'crat could clear the way for you. Yanksox 22:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Would be handy - do I just wait here for a bureaucrat to read it, or do I do something else? 84.9.83.105 22:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not too sure about the exact details, I'm copying and pasting this to WP:BN. Yanksox 22:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I suggest you go to Misplaced Pages:Changing username and ask if it's possible to do such a thing. I wish I knew more/could be a better help. Yanksox 22:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your help - I've put a request up 84.9.83.105 22:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I've had a request pending since 2004. :( Luigi30 (Taλk) 13:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

User: A M. Khan on Marwat

Advocate Required In an article i.e. Marwat, there is section for noteable Marwats. Whenever I tried to enter the most noteable personalities, the artcile was reverted, as there are 2-3 who are personally opossite to the tribe of those person whom I mention. I can also provide evidence and proofs of their personal enimity and the reason of deletion. Here, I must tell you that oenof the entries I add is an Ex-President, Ex-Chairmn Senate, Ex-Minister, Ex-Chief Justice of the country. If he is deleted from noteable personalities so who have place in that article God? This clearly proves that the article is always reverted on personal enimity.

• 'Actually' it should have been me to report User: A M. Khan for his consistent vandalizing of the article Marwat. It was in response to my request that an administrator User: RexNL initialized full protection on this page due to his blatant vandalization. This user, who frequently logs on to Misplaced Pages as an anonymous editor under IP Address User: 203.175.64.10 or as a Sock User: Ghazni Khel has even tried to delete my AFD Tag from an article on Khan Habibullah Khan (as per Misplaced Pages’s policy I warned him for doing so on his talk page). He has also tried to become personal with me by inviting me to chat with him on MSN (he provided his MSN ID batgram786@hotmail.com and which I ignored for obvious reasons). Additionally he has been inconsiderate of all other editors who have voted Delete on a AFD Debate on Akhtar Munir Khan and had tried to pass personal remarks. This user was repeatedly asked by me to provide sources of his preposterous claims but he never came up with any. Finally as per Misplaced Pages's policy I merged/redirected his two line entry on Mina Khel (a sub clan of Marwat) with the main article of Marwat but he recreated the same and which is now pending for a decision by the editors for deletion/merging/redirecting. He was also requested to discuss his additions on the discussion page on Marwat but he turned personal. He has been consistently trying to produce vanity pages and it is my humble opinion to block this user from Misplaced Pages. -- Marwatt 23:11, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Copied & Pasted from the WP:AMARQ page. This is more of an "admin needed" that anything else. -Royalguard11(Talk)(Desk) 00:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Broken AFD categories

This proposal calls for a template to be added each debate in order to categorise it. {{afd2}} was edited in order to carry this out, however it was decided to place the categorisation template above the heading. The result of this is that when one clicks the edit link beside a heading on an AfD day page (which I presume is how most admins begin to close debates), one brings up section 1 of the debate page (everything under the heading), but not section 0 (the lead) which is where the template is.

The end result is that for every AfD started between 00:25 (UTC) 2 September and 02:22 (UTC) 11 September, closers will have to use the edit link from the AfD day page, then click the "project page" tab in the top left (or the "cancel" link below the edit window), and then click the edit tab again to edit the whole page.

Note that this proposal has been implemented without updating any of the documentation for closing admins either, so if someone would like to do that that'd be great. --bainer (talk) 02:38, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

That is a very good point, and explains why I didn't notice the categories. I use AFD Helper to nominate and click the header edit link to close, as you say, which also means the article name appears redlinked in the RC list if the article is deleted, which is nicely informative. Guy 12:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It won't break the system if you change {{afd2}} (in fact, that's already been done) to reorder the tag (saying this as tech author of the system), and that would probably make it easier for closers. (I'd forgotten the way that AfD's edit links worked, and thought it would be more visible above the title...oops...) I've already created a bot to detag any AfDs that admins missed and am awaiting approval, and it's hardly an urgent problem anyway. --ais523 12:40, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Week-old AfD

I don't know if this is the right place to request this, but could an admin take a look at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Game junkie and make a decision on it? It's been open for over a week, and after discounting the sizable number of meatpuppet votes, there appears (at least in my view) a consensus to delete. Is there's a reason this one hasn't been touched yet (sheer size of the debate, someone more experienced doesn't feel there's a consensus, or some other problem)? —NeoChaosX 04:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Closed. Naconkantari 04:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so much. —NeoChaosX 04:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

MediaWiki talk:Talkpagetext

Just a heads up: I'm sure I can't be the only one that dislikes the arbitrary {{talkheader}} and the clutter it adds to talk pages. We have a Mediawiki message available to us (MediaWiki:Talkpagetext) which is only displayed when a talk page is edited, making it the ideal place to store such a message - why have thousands of transclusions in the database when we can use this message? Currently however that message is empty. Please join me at MediaWiki talk:Talkpagetext to discuss implementing this message space and getting rid of talkheader. --kingboyk 08:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Request for review

It will be pretty obvious here that I am sick and tired of this particular argument, nonetheless the other party has asked for an external opinion, so here goes.

A website, fisheaters dot com, was spam blacklisted, see User:JzG/Fisheaters. This followed a brief but intense edit war by the site owner, then using User:Used2BAnonymous, over a large number of links to her site. Since then the site owner has spent many hours arguing for the blacklisting to be lifted. During this time I have no evidence that she has added actual content, her sole intent appears to be to add links, not information. I can't see much evidence of adding of the site owner actual content before then, either, although she asserts that she did so, because for most of her time on Misplaced Pages she has not used an account, for whatever reason.

The final catalyst for blacklisting was the addition of a link to a mirror of a document which is hosted and freely available on the Vatican website, which is the original and authoritative source for that document. This was added (as were most of the links) by an anon, whether the site owner or one of her forum members or some other person I cannot tell. The blacklisting was approved and subsequently confirmed several times based largely on my evidence - the meta spam blacklist talkpage is not I think often visited by anyone other than a few admins and people trying to get thier sites delisted.

Fsheaters is a Traditionalist Catholic site, supporting a minority point of view within the Roman Catholic Church. It is not the official site of any known organisation. It is not linked with any identified authority. The largest "trad" Catholic organisation is the Society of St. Pius X, and we link to their site on various articles. There are a small number of historied editors who share this minority position, and they are active on the article Traditionalist Catholic. There are occasional amusing moments of dispute on articles such as Papal inauguration, where it is asserted that the failure to take a supposed Papal oath renders recent primacies invalid. But this is an aside. Suffice it to say that this site, although it contains some good content, espouses a minority POV. Some at least of the good content is available elsewhere.

As far as I can tell the site is run by a single, unidentified individual (or perhaps a small group of individuals), with no known or provable authority, which supports a minority viewpoint, which was linked to a very large number of articles by the site owner and members of the site's forums, where the site owner conducted a bitter edit war over removal of said links, where an agreement to "a few" links was used as an opportunity to constantly reinterpret "few" upwards, where links were added with misleading link titles (e.g. Catholic view of foo, not Traditionalist Catholic view of foo) and with misleading edit summaries. I can find no credible evidence that the site owner intends to beenfit the project by adding information, only links to her site. Discussions tend to follow a similar pattern of her repeating that she did not know that what she was doing was wrong, that WP:EL did not say avoid links to your own site when they were originally added, that I am an evil rouge admin, that I bear a grudge, etc. etc. And generally they descend to trolling once she realises that endlessly repeating the same arguments is not going tohave a different result where I am concerned. Apparently this is founded not in my well-known disloike of spammer, but in some personal animus towards this minority group of Catholics of whom I had never heard prior to the December 2005 edit war.

Nonetheless, she has requested yet again that her site be removed, and has asked that some "independent third party" review the request. Since I am now sick to the back teeth of the endless argumentation and offsite attacks, such as www.fisheaters.com/evangelize.html and www.fisheaters.com/wikipedia2.html, I would like to know if perhaps I am being unreasonable, or alternatively whether there is more widespread support and we can send her packing. The debate is at m:Talk:Spam blacklist#Fish_Eaters.28dot.29com. Guy 14:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• If they can't keep a discussion civil, but instead resort to off-wiki attacks, I think that's clear evidence they're just spamming, not trying to improve the wiki. - Mgm| 22:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Fix "The Covenant" pages

I'm afraid I made a bit of a mess. I saw that the page for The Covenant discussed a group of science fiction characters, and I thought that since a movie of that name is currently in theaters, that title should go to a redirect page. I moved The Covenant to The Covenant (video game), where I think it is now, but when I looked at the "What Links Here" page (yes, I should have done that first), I saw that The Covenant (Halo) had previously existed, and in fact still is pointed to by many links. However, I cannot now move the main page to The Covenant (Halo) because the redirect pages no longer have only one line in the page history (this is also my fault, as I had the erroneous idea that moving The Covenant (Halo) to a temporary name The Covenant (Halo1) would make room for the main page to go there; I see now that this was entirely mistaken).

I don't want to do cut-and-paste moves, but I don't think I have the authority to clean up the mess I've made. The result I would think is best is that 1) The Covenant (video game) be moved to The Covenant (Halo), 2) the temporary page The Covenant (Halo1) be deleted altogether, and 3) The Covenant contain a redirect to Covenant (disambiguation). I apologize for my bumbling. --Tisco 14:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm putting the right assortment of tags on the page to get the move done (I'm not an admin). --ais523 14:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Now tagged. It seems that this sort of thing happens often enough that there's an assortment of speedy tags ready for just such a situation (I've used G6 and G7 here). --ais523 14:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

(By the way, cut-and-paste moves would have made the situation even worse, because then the history would have to be figured out as well.) --ais523 14:49, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I at least knew that much. :) --Tisco 17:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The move has now been sorted out. --ais523 15:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I've sorted all this out now. --bainer (talk) 15:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Looks great. --Tisco 17:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Category:Articles with unsourced statements

On September 9, 2006, I closed the CFD debate for this category as "speedy keep"

due to unanimous consensus at a recent DRV to retain categories which index articles that contain unreferenced material, as a result of which this category was undeleted. No justification has been offered for renominating this category for deletion so soon after the DRV result.

Apparently dissatisfied with the representativeness of the editors who participated in the deletion review, Casper Claiborne unclosed the discussion, and wrote this on my talk page. Since the deletion review recently resolved this issue, and since having categories repeatedly nominated for deletion, deleted, then restored as a result of deletion reviews disrupts the usability of these categories, reclosing of the CFD debate for Category:Articles with unsourced statements might be advisable. John254 15:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. More needless disputation. It's not going to get consensus for deletion, so I closed it again. Guy 17:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Community Probations?

This is something that came up at WP:TE (and I don't have anyone in particular in mind, just the general idea)... we've got the occasional community ban sometimes discussed on this noticeboard. So how would people feel about community probation? It's a bit like ArbCom probation - the intent is to allow us a lightweight way to tell User:Some User to stay away from Some Article for the next month or so. This would be useful if that Someone was in general a useful editor but is going bonkers on one particular subject. Radiant! 17:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

What is WP:TE? More granular community remedies (probations, paroles, article and topical bans, etc) are going to happen sooner rather than later. We're just waiting for a suitable test case. --Tony Sidaway 18:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, I tried a community probation (on releasing an indefblock) with an editor back in May 2006 that ended up badly (editor is currently again indefblocked) but there wasn't any specific articles that they were banned from as conditions of it. Syrthiss 18:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. We can already do community bans; community probations and community article bans are actually less severe, and could help to keep around good editors who are just incapable of NPOV on a certain narrow topic range. --Cyde Weys 18:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

This is already possible. Here's how it works: Admin sees Problem User disrupting an article. Admin tells Problem User to stop disruption. Perfect world: Problem User stops disrupting. Real world: Problem User continues. Admin blocks Problem User. Admin makes offer to Problem User: "stop editing that article and you'll be unblocked". This happens regularly and we don't need to formalise it. If we can avoid formalising, we do. Sam Korn 18:39, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The only problem is making it stick. Mackensen (talk) 18:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

• We don't need a separate policy, it can be included in the blocking or banning policy. A little support of the arbcom in this would probably help. If they support it, there's no need to go to RFAr. I would restrict executing probations to uninvolved admins, after multiple users (unrelated to the subject) have shown they believe the user's editing to be tendentious. Perhaps following an RFC? - Mgm| 22:13, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It's clue-based adminship, and I'm all for it. No need to write it down, we know that some people are OK as long as they avoid some subjects, and some people should be politely shown the door. It's only when it's ambiguous that we need ArbCom. The current Arbustoo / Vivaldi dispute, and the Sathya Sai Baba dispute, are good examples: it's not open and shut, and many good-faith edits are involved. The project is pretty mature now, some people are arriving with the intent of causing trouble, and we can see them a mile off. Guy 22:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Something along these lines was proposed by User:Bishonen regarding a user posting on WP:ANI. There was a consensus to ban a user from posting to ANI for a period of time. I don't see why this same logic couldn't be applied elsewhere. (→Netscott) 23:22, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

She also banned someone from WP:FAC and subpages for a while once. She is a rogue admin and/or ahead of her time. Obviously this is something we can do. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:07, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe community-based probations and community-approved compulsory mentorship is a good thing. In my opinion it maybe useful for such users as User:SuperDeng, User:Molobo, User:Nixer etc. as an alternative to the long blocks and permabans. abakharev 23:52, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

How did I do a bot edit, I'm not a bot?

Somehow I managed to do a bot edit, but I'm not an admin, or a bot, or anything special.

I reverted vandalism on the Nasal mucus page, but my revert doesn't show up in the history. Recalling that adding &bot=1 shows bot edits, I did that myself to make this URL and suddenly my edit shows up. (it's at 02:25 9 September 2006)

I didn't do anything special, no tools, no scripts, no VandalProof, no popups, nothing. I just went to the previous version before the vandalism, hit Edit, filled in the edit summary with rvv and a description, and hit save.

I am mystified as to why that edit only shows in the history when &bot=1 is present. Reswobslc 21:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Both links show the same result for me. Edits by bots do show up in page histories. (e.g. Orphanbot ) pgk 21:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Try to bypass your cache or add &action=purge to the end of the URL (though I'm not sure whether page histories have the purge functionality). —AySz88\^-^ 21:34, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

bot edits are only hidden in special:recent changes. They should always show up in the page history. Thatcher131 (talk) 22:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It looks like the cache was it. I didn't realize that refresh could still pull up a cached page and that holding the CTRL key overrides that. Thanks Reswobslc 22:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Harrassment by User:Scribner

Can some admin please review the harrassment by User:Scribner on my talk page and his repeated allegations that I am a sock of another user. I've kind of been on a hiatus here editing so I don't know why I'm even involved in this. I'd block myself, but I'm sort of involved (though I don't know how). Pepsidrinka 00:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I can confirm that this guy is a problem. He is in mediation with User:Publicola over something or other; Publicola is an admitted second account created to push a particular editing style as an "experiment." Scribner is convinced Pepsidrinka is the master account, and that User:Starcare is another sock. A checkuser request was declined; in my opinion based on the request and on a discussion with Scribner on my talk page it was misleadingly filed as well. I tried to explain that even if Pepsidrinka was Publicola's master account, they haven't edited the same things so there is no violation. I would suggest a final warning to desist with a civility block the next step, but as a !admin, I'd rather not warn him without the muscle to back it up. Thatcher131 (talk) 17:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

heh, i'll warn him about it. He needs one. Sasquatch t|c 18:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Intangible

This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above. Intangible and AaronS are placed on probation and may be banned for appropriate periods from any article or set of articles which he disrupts by tendentious editing. Should any user placed on Probation under this ruling violate any ban imposed under this decision, they may be blocked for an appropriate period of time. Blocks are to be logged at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Intangible#Log of blocks and bans.

For the Arbitration Committee. - Mgm| 08:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Speedy deletion backlog

There is currently quite a backlog of several hundered categories, articles, and images for speedy deletion (including a couple of attack pages). Admin attention would be appreciated. Thanks! Deli nk 15:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Request for block of self

Would an administrator do me the favor of blocking my account for a period of one year? Seriously. It would be much appreciated, as I do not need the distraction right now, and I am sorely lacking in moderation. Rohirok 19:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

That used to be done with regularity (and some admins used to do it to themselves), but with the increased number of users and the problems with the autoblock, this is rarely done anymore. While other admins may disagree with me, I strongly suggest that you apply self-discipline instead of resorting to a block that may result in collateral damage on other users. --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I have successfully achieved the desired result by entering a local IP as an entry in the hosts file for en.wikipedia.org. Agathoclea 21:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

There is also a Javascript Wikibreak Enforcer that would do the trick. EWS23 (Leave me a message!) 21:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

User Categories

I just found out about this... apparently our bots are choking on the sheer amount of "user" or "Wikipedian" categories to be renamed or deleted. We presently have categories for users who like every known piece of software, every conceivable sports team, and any type of food you can name. A quick scan of Special:Prefixindex shows about 5600 of them. I can pretty much bear their existence by ignoring them, but the fact that they are clogging up our CFD process is definitely a Bad Thing. My first thought would be to ask a dev to DELETE * FROM wi_categories WHERE name LIKE "user*"; but perhaps somebody here has a better solution? >Radiant< 21:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

User pages are of such negligible utility, and are a never-ending source of diversionary problems unrelated to the encyclopedia (and frequently related to trivial, selfish, and malicious uses that mostly arise from people willfully mistaking Misplaced Pages for Angelfire or MySpace) that you should change your proposed SQL query to zap not the user page categories, but the user pages themselves. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:52, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I think we're here to build an encyclopedia, not share hobbies, interests and personal preferences through the category system. But then we're still having this fight over userboxes. I'd gladly delete the lot, userpages should be the only space for personal expression but it would take a Jimbo edict to ram that through, the community is so fractured now. Talk to that dev quick. Steve block Talk 21:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

There might be a whole lot more queued up for deletion if this nomination - Misplaced Pages:Categories for deletion/Log/2006_September_10#Wikipedians_by_diet - is successful. --kingboyk 22:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Its not like deleting / renaming user categories is actually important. I'd still go with mostly ignoring the problem. Just shove the user categories aside and deal with them when people get around to it, which is mostly what happens now, as I understand it. Or one could recruit more people to run cat bots. Dragons flight 23:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I like Radiant's first thought, except that the language ones are actually useful, as are some of the knowledge specialities. If we could keep those, and delete the rest... pizza eating is not relevant, nor is liking a certain type of music. One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua 01:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Agree with KillerChihauhua. On a related note someone a while ago brought up the notion of having another space for user:categories. That might make the more trivial user categories more tolerable and even if we only keep a few of them would still be good since these cats blur the line between article space and user space. JoshuaZ 01:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

As someone who does a LOT of discussion closing at CFD, I'd be perfectly happy with jettisoning the whole mess. It just takes up too much time and resources to deal with, even with all of them lumped on one page. If people want to have their userboxes, I really don't care, but I don't think a category is needed for every single one of them (save maybe the language ones). --Kbdank71 02:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• Radiant!, for your information, I believe you were on your 7+ month long wikibreak when these type of categories were first created. They were originally started to keep track of which users were using what userbox (e.g. Category:Wikipedians who eat apples lists every Wikipedian who has {{User Apples}} on his or her user page. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• Why did we need to keep track? Wouldn't a what links here work? I'm still not clear why we need to know that some wikipedians eat apples. I have no objection to being told that on a user's page, but I'm unsure how the grouping of such users through the category system helps the Misplaced Pages. Would we eventually have to kill all users who eat apples, and this is the hit list? Steve block Talk 10:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the idea is so that apple-eaters can find other apple eating editors on wikipedia, which will result in lots of wiki-love through people's shared love of apples. Dave 14:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Lol. Is that so? I'd better withdraw the nomination then... On second thoughts... no! ;) --kingboyk 14:43, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

On reflection, I think it's so that we can check their bias when editing articles about apples. Any chance someone could quickly run a comparison and see if any of them have actually edited articles regarding apples before they catch wind of it and game the system? :) Steve block Talk 16:05, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• Well, at least we can't compare those to the Wikipedians who like oranges... >Radiant< 19:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• OK, since I'm the person who's been doing most of the nominating of these things, let me speak up in defense of the approach of just getting it out of the way. When I got there, there were hundreds of user categories that were named like mainspace categories (category:Capuchin alumni, for example). There was a clear consensus to put "Wikipedians" in the title of all of them, so there wouldn't be any confusion. But this led to other questions: If Wikipedian was needed for several hundred categories, wouldn't it be better if there was no confusion whatsoever about how categories should be named? And thus the long nominations, which some have welcomed and others have despised. My thought is this: Let's get it all out of the way now, then (as I've proposed elsewhere) move it to its own renaming process so that those who do care can take care of it. I think it's worth it to run through the last sets of categories and then deal with wiping out entire sections if that's the consensus. Hope that helps.--Mike Selinker 12:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

In my view, the problem is simply that the Category: namespace has to cover too many bases. The Category: namespace should be purely for encyclopedic categorisation of articles. A User category: namespace would be helpful with the immediate problem being discussed here. While we're at it, we could have a Misplaced Pages category: namespace for admin categories, such as Category:Misplaced Pages categorization and its sub categories. By extension, I think I'm suggesting a category scheme for each namespace (Image: categorisation, Template: categorisation, MediaWiki: categorisation and Help: categorisation all seem to me to be non-encyclopedic, but potentially useful). I just float this as it occurs to me: does anyone think this is a good idea, one that could be suggested tentatively to developers? --RobertG ♬ talk 16:53, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• Okay. For the time being, I have moved all User categories into Misplaced Pages:User categories for discussion. I hope that will help. >Radiant< 17:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure how it helps - isn't it just hiding them away in a cesspool of a Misplaced Pages page so we can pretend they don't exist? --kingboyk 19:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
    • That's the approach that worked for userboxes, right...? ;) -GTBacchus 20:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Precisely so, it's a rather British way of doing things I suppose. Anyway, I'm just getting started with creating my user page, and userboxes are terribly good at allowing me to expand it with very little effort. I've yet to be contacted by someone that shares the esoteric hobby of eating at burger king occassionally, but there's hope yet and the only way they're going to find me is by retaining the categories. Dave 22:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Isn't that a bit wimpy? At the risk of coming across as a goody goody or a little Caesar, the whole point of this discussion is that your contacting fellow burger afficionados is not Misplaced Pages's purpose:-) --RobertG ♬ talk 09:25, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Yes I suppose it is a bit British, and I'm all for hiding my head in the sand when things go wrong :), so - Support! :) --kingboyk 09:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Time to just start deleting useless user categories. There's way too many of them to try running through CFD, and it really is distracting CFD from its encyclopedic purpose. --Cyde Weys 23:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

• Agreed. --RobertG ♬ talk 09:25, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Spamming/botting?

I noticed the following on the alerts board and think it's meritorious. Cutting and pasting:

• LordByronKing (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been systematically making changes that lead me to believe he has an agenda, and may also be using a bot due to the manner and duration of his contributions. By manner, I specifically am referring to the fact that he makes about ten small changes to an article within approx. 1 min. of eachother, then moves on to a related topic and does the same thing. On Sept. 11, LordByronKing made changes almost every minute (a few times there were lapses between 3-5 min long) for the period of about five hours. -21:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Many of these seem like attempts to raise the name presence of a single author and to capitalize phrases used in articles into correspondence with the title of that author's book. Smells like a form of spam? Durova 03:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I have removed a lot of his spam, and have warned him, expect to see me get attacked. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

User:LordByronKing is now back as Onedayoneday (talk · contribs). He's re-added himself to one article already. I've given him a final warning. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

And I have now blocked Onedayoneday for this threat. The LordByronKing account is still unblocked. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Is this a copyvio?

Constitutional Court of Thailand contains a huge (>250k) pile of information, all in comments, and presumably a copyvio. Any action need taking? Dave 23:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Not any more it doesn't. Nevertheless, what is policy? (See history of that article to see what I mean) Dave 00:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

See WP:CP#Instructions. Conscious 11:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

A few Usernames that should be Blocked

• User:Analfuckbaggage articles
• User:Misplaced Pages articles for analfuckbaggage

Vandalism only accounts, and from the usernames. -Royalguard11(Talk)(Desk) 00:59, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Mets501 (talk) 01:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Use WP:AIV next time, this is obvious stuff. Yanksox 02:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Major Backlog at WP:RM

FYI, there is a huge backlog at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves. I've taken care of quite a few move requests over the past half hour, but my current semi-wikibreak, as well as my inability to take care of many of the moves, prevents from doing more. Perhaps several admins with time on their hands could tackle the situation. Thanks in advance. -- tariqabjotu 01:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Workin' on it. But if others want to help, dive right in folks :)--Woohookitty 07:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll do a few, as I just haven't been yelled at enough lately for administrative decisions. Also, I have yet to be called a Nazi or fascist. -- Kjkolb 02:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

LOL! I love admin humor. :) From what I see though, it's relatively uncontroversial stuff. It's a little like closing AfD votes. --Woohookitty 04:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalized image revisions

File:P11 kasparov breakout.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) contains a number of revisions which have been vandalized. The small U.S. flag has been replaced with a Nazi flag. The revisions in question are those which are sized 498×304. The current revision is fine, but the others should probably be removed, as this is a fair-use promotional image from IBM. —ptk✰fgs 20:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

They're gone now. Thanks for the heads-up. -GTBacchus 20:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Fake User Assistance

User:Templar34 created a fake user: User:David_Duchovny. It has been there since March 10th. Unless I'm missing something, this should be deleted. Thank you. --Ouzo 22:53, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting that. It's zapped. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, BTW, that was't a fake username. Templar34 had just changed his name and the original was never removed. My mistake. --Ouzo 00:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

But using the names of celebrities is a no-no. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Even if he changed his name from it, leaving the (defunct) celebrity-named user page around is undesirable. It's all still good. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Karwynn

• Karwynn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Karwynn showed up a few months back, and was involved in trying to push material attacking MONGO onto Misplaced Pages, for which I blocked him. More recently he's resumed trollish behavior, including this edit. Enough's enough. Time to invite Karwynn to go and troll elsewhere. --Tony Sidaway 23:31, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

This is long overdue. Now there's only one ED troll left who hasn't been blocked yet ... Cyde Weys 23:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm leaning towards endorsing this block but I'm not completely convinced. Karwynn has been disruptive but has also tried to contribute. Possibly unblock the user with the promise to only edit in article space for some set amount of time? JoshuaZ 23:44, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Who's the only "ED troll" left? —Nate Scheffey 23:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

None other than Badlydrawnjeff, I suppose... Scobell302 23:54, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Probably. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to adjust duration or lift this block. My usual block principles apply. Fully reviewable and I've no objection to alteration. --Tony Sidaway 23:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this block makes sense as a preventative measure. This user "showed up" 6 months ago and has 2000+ edits. The edit cited was not a good idea on Karwaynn's part, but after Nandesuka changed it, Karwynn agreed to a compromise which they apparently both were happy with. I think an indef block with no warning is a bit much. —Nate Scheffey 23:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't actually "happy" with it, but I was busy and figured someone else would block him for being disruptive and incivil. I thought that my little performance art on his page should have been enough to get the message across, but he insisted on replacing the insults, which told me that this was going nowhere fast. So I let it drop. While one can agree or disagree with Tony's block, claiming that Karwynn wasn't warned is pretty disingenuous, given that his edit summaries indicate that he full well knew just how rude and disruptive he was being.

I'm not inclined to second guess Tony in this particular matter. Nandesuka 00:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean that "his edit summaries indicate that he full well knew just how rude and disruptive he was being." Could you cite one? And, I think it should be noted that Tony was involved in a heated discussion with Karwynn yesterday.—Nate Scheffey 00:13, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not aware of having responded to Karwynn's trolling lately. Apologies if it should turn out that I have. --Tony Sidaway 00:42, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You're not aware of a conversation you had less than 24 hours ago, and most recently commented in one minute ago? And, for the record, disagreement is not "trolling". —Nate Scheffey 00:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

My apologies. When you said I had been "involved in a heated discussion" with Karwynn, I thought you meant that I had engaged in discussion with him. I see now that you merely mean that he and I both contributed to the same discussion thread. --Tony Sidaway

I'm fuzzy on the distintion between engaging in discussion with someone and both contributing to the same discussion thread. Are you saying it wasn't a discussion because you never replied directly to him? —Nate Scheffey 01:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying it wasn't a discussion because I didn't give his trolling the time of day. --Tony Sidaway 01:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Possibly this: Mackensen (talk) 00:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Per Tony's above permission I have reduced the block to 1 week. I think we should strongly encourage Karwynn to only edit in article space for an extended amount of time. JoshuaZ 00:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I think this shows a fairly complete awareness of the inappropriateness of his message. Don't you? Nandesuka 00:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it's more along the lines of "I'll probably be indef-blocked for commenting on the state of Misplaced Pages on my own talk page." —Nate Scheffey 01:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

There's a huge difference between constructive criticism (which a lot of people manage to do just fine with) and trolling. --Cyde Weys 06:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I should think it an incontrovertible principle that editors are expected to swing by the article space now again. For an active editor Karwynn has sworn off the article space to an astonishing degree (). Mackensen (talk) 01:09, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no reason to keep around an otherwise disruptive user who doesn't contribute to the encyclopedia. —Centrx→talk • 01:22, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I would say pragmatic unblock, as otherwise he'll just go off somewhere winging about the conspiracy and within a week or two there'll be a new user with suspiciously similar editing patterns. Dave 01:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Lol at all of you who think I edit at ED. Blocks for good reasons sound great, but when those reasons are false, it restricts the value of the block. Karwynn (talk) 05:37, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Reblocked :-/ This guy just keeps on doing more of the same. --Cyde Weys 06:22, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• Sad but true. Endorsing a palpable sockpuppet does not exactly endear Karwynn to me either. From the negligible participation in mainspace I would say this is not going to impact the project at all - I should probably have done this yesterday, actually, instead of just asking Karwynn to stop. So: endorse block. Guy 11:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I have had to restrain myself from taking care of this situation for some time. If anyone wants further evidence why this editor needs to find a new playground, just ask me. Cyde and Tony Sidaway deserve medals.--MONGO 06:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Website using[REDACTED] material without compliance to the GFDL

I'm not sure where to report this, but this site is using[REDACTED] material without following licencing requirments.--Peta 01:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

<meta name="description" content="WELCOME TO ONE OF THE BEST LINKS SITE ON THE NET..."> hmm, {{db-nocontext}} perhaps? Dave 01:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You seem to have missed the issue.--Peta 02:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

What you're looking for is WP:FORKS. —ptk✰fgs 02:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Patterns merely perceived?: User name plus behavior = small freak-out

Is this at all normal? A series of user names, most of the form "name <space> name", all editing a single article, with very small edits quite quickly, over a short period of time but not overlapping. Is this someone trying to 'establish' a set of users for ... 'later'?

• 05:09, 14 September 2006 User:Stanley Goodwin (Talk | contribs) (New user account)
• 05:05, 14 September 2006 User:Kevin Ronchzkowski (Talk | contribs) (New user account)
• 05:02, 14 September 2006 User:David Sam (Talk | contribs) (New user account)
• 04:59, 14 September 2006 User:Carl Edwards (Talk | contribs) (New user account)
• 04:53, 14 September 2006 User:Mark Stanley (Talk | contribs) (New user account)
• 04:31, 14 September 2006 User:Jonathanchristman (Talk | contribs) (New user account)

Check out the edit history of Reformed_Baptist. (I'm tempted to revert the whole lot of changes, as several are just bad, but I'm spooked.)

I scanned down the list of new accounts for about 1.5 hours' worth, and except for

• 04:25, 14 September 2006 User:Bruce Graham (Talk | contribs) (New user account)

none else fit the (perceived?) pattern.

I know that people will often perceive a pattern in "white noise", but this is too strange for me. Shenme 05:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd say there's something up. That history page is scary! Looking at this dif (there are over 50 edits in between) there seem to be no substantial changes (and a few copyediting errors, which I am going to go fix). It seems like someone trying to build up an edit count on a few socks. I'm no expert or admin though, but that's what I think. Ungovernable Force 06:37, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah, that looks like a pattern all right. - Mgm| 08:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Bruce seems to be unconnected to the others, and is presumably blisfully ignorant that his name is being dragged through the mud. I've dropped a handrolled "please don't" message on each of the others. Probably just someone experimenting. We will see. Regards, Ben Aveling 09:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I hope I didn't give that impression, sorry if I did. User:Bruce Graham was not in the first list, and I was _trying_ to say he wasn't a possible problem, but apparently failed. No, I was not including User:Bruce Graham in my concerns. Shenme 16:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I apologise. I didn't think that you meant that Bruce was a problem, only that you were just raising a perfectly valid concern that there might be a connection. But I'm discomforted that Bruce was included in a check user request . That's not because it wasn't done in good faith - it was. Just that it's rough on him to show up and accidentally be caught in a dragnet. I'm uncomfortable that we're discussing him and he doesn't (presumably) know it. But I don't what to do about it - leave a message on his page saying "By the way Bruce, just to let you know, we're watching you and we're know you're innocent?" That's wierd too. Regards, Ben Aveling 22:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• I only included him, because he appears (or appeared) to be connected by naming and edit habits. If he's innocent I'm sorry he got dragged in here, but I don't see anything implicitly wrong with innocents being included in RFCU when there's reason to believe there's a connection. The persons performing such checks will not reveal any confidential information, so information he is not related can only be good for him. - Mgm| 08:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Request for unblock

Got a dilemma. I've heard from a blocked user, Wiki brah who created a benign sockpuppet account under Le Wiki Brah in order to contact me. This fellow was a problem user, but I don't believe the problems were intentional. Rather, I believe it's because he's slightly autistic and has admitted as such. He wishes to reestablish an account under the original user name but I don't want to override another admin, in this case, Tony Sidaway. I know how I felt when I was overturned a few months ago by another admin. I've left word with Tony but I haven't heard back. So...what to do? Thanks, guys and gals. - Lucky 6.9 07:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Tony did, in fact, respond, you must have missed it (I've moved this from ANI as per his request):

Please raise this on WP:AN. He was subject to a community ban and I'd like to see how people feel about him coming back. See here. As a matter of personal opinion, I would strenuously oppose his return under any restrictions. I just don't know that he ever helped the encyclopedia. --Tony Sidaway 04:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

El_C 07:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, sorry for not checking this myself. --Tony Sidaway 08:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• So far he's used his alternate account only to contact an admin and revert a case of silly vandalism. I'd be happy to give him a second chance. We can always community ban him again if even the beginning of a problem arises. Vandals and troublemakers can change and as Lucky said, the ban may have been due to other reasons. - Mgm| 08:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
• Concur. I see no immediate harm in giving the user a 2nd chance. El_C 08:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Have you seen the block log? In particular:

02:08, 16 August 2005 Lucky 6.9 (Talk | contribs) unblocked Wiki brah (contribs) (Autistic user who is asking for another chance)

Regards, Ben Aveling 08:49, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• I fail to see the relevence of a year-old unblock. - Mgm| 11:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• I believe the point he's making is that we've been down this road before. Mackensen (talk) 11:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, that's all. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." And people do change, though if the behaviour problems arise from the fact that he's autistic, that's maybe unlikely. Does this suggest we need a parole board? Category:Users on parole? Regards, Ben Aveling 23:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• I'm not comfortable with unblocking someone who has a history of poor behaviour, followed by contrition, followed by poor behaviour. That's not autism, it's trolling. Add to this a general lack of edits to the encyclopedia itself (out of the user's final 100 edits, just 5 were to the mainspace) and I think we're inviting trouble by letting this user back. ➨ ЯEDVERS 08:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

  I am somewhat weary of autism being used to disguise trolling. El_C 09:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• Autistic people can be good encyclopedic contributors; I think we could overturn the community ban on him if he's willing to work with us... I would help him if he wants it. --LiverpoolCommander 10:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• I think that as long as he is prepared to exercise self-restraint and accept a zero tolerance approach to incivility on his part then a second chance is not so much to ask. I suspect he will be closely watched. I view it as a good sign that he asked rather than simply create a new account. The worst that can happen is that we have to block him again, which is not so very terrible. Guy 12:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

  The worst thing that can happen? We spend another six months nursemaiding an editor who shows little or no inclination to improve the encyclopedia, and shows every sign of wanting to flaunt his anti-social habits in the hope of gaining attention. --Tony Sidaway 16:23, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• You may be right, Tony. Let's let it ride. Thanks. - Lucky 6.9 22:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• Maybe raise it to the ArbCom, see if they want to reconsider, either now or at some point in the future. In the meantime, if he wants to make any suggestions for changes/report vandalism etc he can always do it on his talk page. I'll watch list it and follow up on anything he raises, and I'm sure others will too. That allows him to make a contribution and show good faith, or otherwise. Regards, Ben Aveling 23:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Who is the vandal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:MutterErde&diff=75673503&oldid=75673413

curiuos 195.93.60.102 09:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Randomvandal40000000000000000

This person has an inappropriate username and I can't click on "Edit this page". So much red text... O.O User_talk:Randomvandal40000000000000000 is his talk page. --WikiSlasher 11:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Reported to WP:AIV, you are more likely to get admin attention over there. MER-C 11:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

myg0t

Myg0t (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has been deleted, reviewed, deletion endorsed, earth salted, reviewed again, reviewed again. It's pretty unliekly that we'll see an article at that location in the near future. The talk page is, of course, the usual trollfest. I suggest we delete it, as a talk page of a deleted article which is unlikely to play any productive part in a deletion review in the foreseeable future. What say? Guy 12:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Deleted. JoshuaZ 12:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

And earth salted. Technically talk pages aren't speediable if they "contain deletion discussion that isn't logged elsewhere", but I don't even see the use of that generally, and certainly none of the trolling on Talk:Myg0t is any use to anyone. --Sam Blanning 16:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you think the same approach could be applied to Talk:Wii60? -- ReyBrujo 21:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Prolific spammer - Keenstar

User:Keenstar (Talk | Cont) Appears to have been set up solely to promote his/her site contactmusic. User has been warned twice (diffs ) but has not responded or changed behavior. Sample of edits being made: . All edits so far (except uploading company logo) have been of similar type. --SiobhanHansa 15:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I have given the user a 24 hour block. If it continues after the block has expired I will move it up to indefinite. JoshuaZ 21:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

This site appears to be across a lot of articles.--Andeh 22:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Some of these at first glance look like they were put there by legitimate editors. Anyone want to help me go through and make determinations? There are about 400 or so to deal with. JoshuaZ 23:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

400 what? -- Drini 23:34, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I hadn't realized you could search on a URL like that. It's always good to learn something new. I'll start looking through (if there's an easier way to find out who added the link and when, other than wading through the history, please someone let me know :-) --SiobhanHansa 23:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Of the remainder, most use the website as a reference. I'm not convinced that it meets WP:RS but there isn't any WP:SPAM/WP:EL issue for most of the remaining links. JoshuaZ 23:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

That's great! Thanks --SiobhanHansa 00:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Eternal Equinox limited to one account

Eternal Equinox continues to edit anonymously, both disrupting articles and continuing to violate bans received under probation for the disruption. Eternal Equinox is hereby limited to one publicly known account, preferably Eternal Equinox. All edits by Eternal Equinox under another account or an IP address shall be treated as edits by a banned user.

Passed by 6-0. 17:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

For the arbitration committee. --Tony Sidaway 17:13, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

However, Eternal Equinox has still continued to edit anonymously after this ruling took effect as might have been expected from her history (this is User:Hollow Wilerding, for those who remember) and the imperious tone she took at the request to use an account. She edits from the 64.231.0.0/16 range, principally pop music articles. Please roll back IP edits from this range per the ruling above. The range can be blocked for a couple of hours at a time, anonymous users only and account creation enabled, to encourage the user to create an account as requested. (She claims to have munged the password for the preferred User:Eternal Equinox account.) Bishonen | talk 22:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC).

That's not violating the new ruling. Who do you think you are? I have a life and incase you didn't notice (which you didn't) I made those edits after the new ruling without any acknowledge that it had taken place. I don't always check on WP:RFAR and there was no message posted on any of my talk pages. All those edits have been restored anonymously and this new account has been created for the sole purpose of posting this message. Actually, I'm not fond of this account's name and will abandon it for one with a preferable name. Identifycommunication 23:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

And yes, I'm going to munge this password too. Identifycommunication 23:49, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocked, etc. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 23:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Eternal Equinox has been told to choose a new account name and stick to it. --Tony Sidaway 23:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Sticking with this account. Will access on occasion. Veltron 01:05, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear smart people,

Please read User:David Gerard/Process essay and hack it into teeny little bits with your cluesticks. It needs Bastard Peer-Reviewing From Hell - David Gerard 17:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You didn't use the proper process to write your essay!! you are not following the policy on essay drafts to be created in userspace nor you submited by triplicate your annoucement to the appropiate forums. It's an Out Of Process Essay!! thus it should be deleted. -- Drini 20:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Giano

• Giano (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Giano has taken his concerns about the recent Carnildo affair beyond the level of reasonable discussion and has begun to make quite hysterical and false accusations . I've given him three hours to reconsider his words and cool down a bit. --Tony Sidaway 21:14, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that a block was necessary here... I don't read anything that makes it look like there's any danger to the project, and it isn't obvious to me that the comments are designed to upset any contributors. Jkelly 21:23, 14 September 2006 (UTC)-

I agre with Jkelly. I'm going to unblock, and leave him a message on his talk page asking him to be a bit cooler. Raul654 21:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Hrm, Flonight beat me to it. Raul654 21:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree with the block, but Giano definitely needs to cool it. There's room for civil discussion, and then there's accusations of conspiracy, corruption, and cabalism. True or not, the latter doesn't help a damn thing. Mackensen (talk) 21:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

No problem. I think it had gotten far beyond the stage where asking him to cool it would have worked, though. We'll see how it goes. --Tony Sidaway 21:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, for the delay in posting. Keep getting edit conflicts. Giano will not respond positively to a block so I unblocked. --FloNight 21:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I support getting Giano to return to the excellent work he has done in FA's and to try and let the situations outside of that become the past, as they should be. I also hope folks aren't going around undoing Tony Sidaway's admin actions, knowing that he cannot revert them since he is under an administrative 1RR ruling. Let's not undo others admin actions as this is the second time in less than 24 hours an admin has changed Tony's blocks.--MONGO 21:34, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"his is the second time in less than 24 hours an admin has changed Tony's blocks." Seems to me there are two ways to interpret that statistic.... —Nate Scheffey 21:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's here all week folks! Mackensen (talk) 21:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Tony, the block was uncalled for, especially of an editor you hadn't even warned, that I can see. The block summary was even more so. "Hysterical" is untrue and a personal attack, and now it's there in the log for evermore. Please consider the formulation of block summaries with particular care, as they are extremely difficult to remove or change, and it's in practice never done. This was discussed extensively, recently, in relation to Carnildo's "hate speech" summaries, which still remain in several block logs—Giano's, as luck would have it, being one of them. Bishonen | talk 21:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC).

Yes, the block was uncalled for (and particularly bad form). Better to risk a bruised ego by undoing an improper block than to let it stand out of some misguided notion of politeness. Friday (talk) 21:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid we'll have to differ on this,Bishonen. Giano's accusations of skulduggery and malice are beyond anything that is ever acceptable on Misplaced Pages. --Tony Sidaway 21:38, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, well, you don't usually mince words yourself, Tony. A month ago you were accusing a fellow admin of "Pure, unadulterated malice. Disgusting." Haukur 21:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Tony weren't you also just fighting with Giano on the crat board? I notice you've also started doing more refactoring of those discussions after I asked you to stop. JoshuaZ 21:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

And where is this "skulduggery and malice?" From the two diffs you provided, the editor disagreed with Taxman's re-promotion of Carnildo and discussed it. They didn't explicitly attack either Carnildo or Taxman with anything more than opinions. I don't think dissenting opinions deserve a block, and if something in the grey area like this does, it is better to discuss your problems with the editor first, especially if you've had problems with them before. There was nothing urgent or dangerous about this matter which required an immediate block. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 21:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The problem is not Giano but Tony Sidaway

I see a big problem here and this problem is not Giano (talk · contribs), but Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Tony has turned the entire Misplaced Pages into a battleground between himself and anyone who dares to disagree with him. Tony has lately resorted to a more fiery methods of intimidation, including frivolous arbcom submissions and, most amazingly, blocks when the opponent is especially voiceful. His own recent activity ranged between foul language, personal attacks, intimidation and gross abuse. There is no single contribution into a single article in mainspace, which is also noteworthy.

Until Tony will stand in front of ArbCom for his contempt of everyone but himself, he needs time to chill out. I call on the community ro consider giving him a time to cool off. Perhaps a 1-3 day block will be enough for him to take a good use of a wikibreak, cool down and come back somewhat chilled out. --Irpen 21:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Again already? He got blocked just a couple of days ago as a naughty essay-deleter :) Haukur 22:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought it had been established that cooling-off blocks didn't do any good. Heaven knows there are howls of protest whenever one's proposed against a non-admin. Mackensen (talk) 21:49, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Is that sarcasm or do you agree that cooling off blocks do no good? —Nate Scheffey 21:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I've never seen them work, really, because it's difficult for someone to take a block in good grace. I don't blame you for asking, though. Mackensen (talk) 22:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

They work well if they're permitted to. I don't disagree with the unblock (all my blocks are subject to review and overturning with my implicit permission). I think we would have done well to permit Giano the time to reconsider the quite hysterical and false accusations of skulduggery and malice of his recent comments. --Tony Sidaway 21:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong. This block would not have cooled Giano off. His comments were not hysterical. Saying so doesn't make it so. All of your blocks are subject to review regardless of your permission. —Nate Scheffey 22:06, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, my impression is that he does post any potentially controversial blocks up for review, so I cannot see what you meaning is on this point.--MONGO 22:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Since he said "all my blocks" I'm not sure where you got "potentially controversial blocks" from. Regardless, my meaning is that on Misplaced Pages all of our actions are subject to review, no permission necessary. —Nate Scheffey 22:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Tony Sidaways' latest is another of those blocks that will obviously have the opposite effect of its stated intent. This needs to be addressed in WP:BLOCK. —Nate Scheffey 21:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocking isn't the answer. Furthermore, I'd encourage you to be careful with "voiceful" (I suspect you meant "forceful"). There's a very important line between arguing your point forcefully and trolling. It's often hard to tell the difference, and people have varying levels of tolerance. When in doubt, moderate one's language. Mackensen (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

(four edit conflicts) Agree that the problem is Tony. Disagree on the block. Other solutions are needed. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 21:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe Giano may be more than a little upset at the way Tony responds incivily to a civil (and might I add hypothetical) statement, then, called on it, says "ridiculous threats deserve to to be treated with loud and resounding contempt." Noting that one would call for Tony's recall if he were a bureaucrat is not any sort of threat that I can discern. Tony is being incivil; he has been consistenty policing post-Carnildo discussion to what seems to me a disruptive point, and he should perhaps block himself for three hours for a calm-down, if he finds such blocks generally effective. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Did anyone bother to discuss the blocking with Tony before reverting his action?--MONGO 22:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I think there was about as much discussion with Tony about unblocking as there was between Tony and Giano before he imposed the block. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi ho

If no one minds I'm going to attempt to stifle and censor discussion by proposing that this matter best be handled as dispute resolution between Giano and Tony Sidaway. Tony reported his block, the block has been undone. Nothing's going to be accomplished here save much grumbling and drama. We all know where the dispute pages are; we all know where to discuss the blocking policy. Administrative action isn't needed here. Mackensen (talk) 22:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I've got nothing further to say on the matter. Hopefully Giano will calm down now that more eyes are on him. --Tony Sidaway 22:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

(multiple edit conflicts) I see two issues here. If people agree that cool-off blocks do not work, why Tony is not yet reprimanded for the cool-off blocks against respected users who simply dare to disagree with him? I mean, some people cry foul loudly but since Tony does not care about the community's perception of himself, there is no consequences for him whatsoever. At the same time, he lately runs completely amok and that's not just me who says that. He needs not a cool-off period but a wiki-break. If he, like all of us, is such a wikiholic that he can't call a wikibreak by himself, the wikibreak must be called on him by the community. The disruption by Tony to an entire Misplaced Pages has become intolerable. Personally, I won't care if he blocks me. First of all, someone will likely unblock, and, second, I am here to write content and I will use the time to write an article or two on a hard-drive. But other users are more britle and take unfair blocks closer to heart. Tony's behavior drive out Wikipedians, and not those who like him spend their entire time chatting and lawyering, but those who write a FA once every 2-3 days. Users like the G-3 (Giano, George, Ghirlandajo), the Worldtraveller, 172 is hardly contributing. What the hell is happening? --Irpen 22:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

(Record number of edit conflicts) I strongly endorse the unblocking. I had been following the discussion on WP:BN today and Tony Sidaway was an active participant in it, disagreeing with several of the other users contributing. In the process, Tony made remarks that by his own admission on his talk page were uncivil and "over the top." Resort to the page history at BN is necessary because throughout the day, Tony refactored the discussion by deleting several comments that he disagreed with. Although BN is a project page rather than an article, Tony's blocking here was the equivalent of blocking to gain an advantage in an edit war, widely considered an unacceptable practice.

Under the circumstances, while I do not agree with everything Giano had to say, and I find that the ongoing debate on Carnildo's re-sysoping has become somewhat sterile, Tony certainly should not have been the blocking admin -- even had Giano said anything that could have warranted a block, which he did not. User:Giano is not some random troll to be driven away; he is a major contributor to the encyclopedia, who has had two featured articles on the Main Page within the past week, and is entitled to express his opinions on an administrative noticeboard, particularly where he is doing so more civilly than the person who chose to block him.

We are at the point that we have some valuable contributors who are living in fear of administrators will block them if they say something out of touch with the mood of the day -- not in an article, but in project space where meta-issues are supposed to be debated. A strong consensus should emerge from this that it's time for some folks to step away from the block button. Newyorkbrad 22:09, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Who are the contributors that are leaving for fear of being blocked for speaking their minds?--MONGO 22:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the BN and was thanked for doing so by several editors, including one bureaucrat. It doesn't matter what good Giano is doing elsewhere, his activities on use talk pages were inflammatory accusations of malicious skulduggery and he had been warned to stop. Newyorkbrad's false accusation of blocking to gain advantage in a dispute is unworthy of response. --Tony Sidaway 22:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Newyorkbrad, a relatively new editor, is also one of the most thoughtful commentators on meta-issues I have seen. You demean yourself by dismissing him thusly. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Thoughtful he may be, but when he's wrong he's wrong. --Tony Sidaway 22:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

He's not wrong. You are wrong. Dismissing his accurate and well reasoned objection as "unworthy of response" demonstrates conclusively that your civility issues need to be formally addressed. —Nate Scheffey 22:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Surely all opinions judged wrong by you are not "unworthy of response"? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

No. Only the clearly ridiculous ones. --Tony Sidaway 22:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Thoughts on Two Users

User:Tony Sidaway is dedicated to this project. He has clearly spent thousands of hours serving Misplaced Pages as an administrator, as the ArbCom clerk (time-consuming and tedious I'm sure), and in meta-debate as well. When doing his job well, he is one of the most valuable Wikipedians. Unfortunately, Tony has his rough edges: by his own admission, he is sometimes uncivil; he says what's on his mind and minces no words; and lots of people have had to urge him more than once to cool down; and he's acknowledged that he has a fiery temper, to the point that he is subject to restrictions not placed on any other administrator. But he's put in his time; he's been subject to vicious personal attacks off-wiki for his work here; and he withstands it all and continues to work for Misplaced Pages.

User:Giano is dedicated to this project. He has clearly spent thousands of hours serving Misplaced Pages as a contributor to some of our best articles, and more recently to some extent in meta-debate as well. When doing his job well, he is one of the most valuable Wikipedians. Unfortunately, Giano has his rough edges: when provoked, he sometimes skirts the edges of civility; he says what's on his mind and minces no words; and lots of people have had to urge him more than once to cool down. But he's put in his time; he's been subject to inane block summaries and proposed (fortunately not enacted) ArbCom remedies; and he withstands it all and continues to work for Misplaced Pages.

There is a place for both of these people here, and it's not sitting behind blocks. Newyorkbrad 22:34, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Well put. Jkelly 22:37, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The problem here is that what Giano has been doing is far beyond incivility. It is clearly false accusations, without evidence, of malicious wrongdoing. He remains very, very worked up about this, which is a shame, because we'd all like him to cool down and stop adding this stuff to user talk pages and trying to whip up hatred against other Wikipedians. Those actions are real problems. We may differ on what to do about them, but they won't go away just because we ignore them. --Tony Sidaway 22:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• "we'd all like him to cool down and stop adding this stuff to user talk pages" I bet you would; but what stuff exactly Tony? Giano | talk 22:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

If that's what is happening, and there is a real behaviour problem, it isn't obvious enough yet, given that a whole bunch of us here couldn't see the block as even a necessary evil. If there is a problem that goes beyond Giano's... level of emphasis, it needs a lot more spelling out -- an RfC level of spelling-out, I'd suggest. Jkelly 23:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

It's abundantly obvious. "All of them I suspect were in on this - even Angela - there are no innocents here" and "I smell a rat, I see a rat, and I don't like it one little bit" make it plain that the fellow has taken to making false, quite unfounded and extremely damaging allegations about other Wikipedians. Asking for an RfC is superfluous. This is the kind of poison, in my opinion, that should never be spread around on Misplaced Pages. Since others can't see that I've no problem accepting that I was mistaken. --Tony Sidaway 23:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

//sigh// Well, I was hoping that perhaps what I wrote would induce Tony Sidaway to acknowledge that Giano has his merits, and Giano to recognize that Tony has his. Not working out that great so far, is it? Tony likes to write that he's "not one of life's mediators," and it looks like perhaps I shouldn't quit my day job either. Newyorkbrad 23:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Newyorkbrad, I have nothing against Giano and until the other day I don't think I'd ever heard of him. His recent actions have been, to say the least of it, odd. As an administrator I seek to deal with those actions. I'm not succeeding in this instance otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation, and I'll own up to that with no problems. However Giano's actions remain a problem for the community. --Tony Sidaway 23:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Block for tony sidaway

The discussion was transferred to User:Tony_Sidaway#Community_block_of_Tony_Sidaways_is_hereby_proposed

Drini, please do not remove the information from exactly appropriate space. While Admins are not the whole community, the community blocks are customarely discusses here because administrators are the only part of community that can implement them. This censorship isn't helpful. --Irpen 23:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Censorship: the authoritarian control of speech and other forms of human expression. I'm not controlling your speech. I'm not hiding your words. I'm moving it out from where it doesn belong. I'll put it then to Village Pump AND WHEN vconsensus to block tony is reached, a note can be post here for the adminsitrative action to take place

MOved to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous) post a note back when consensus is reached. -- Drini 23:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I have already warned Irpen about 3RR violation on this page, which he chose to delete from his Talk page as patronizing, so I'm putting it here. But I think the same warning needs to be given to Drini, as well. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Warning taken. -- Drini 23:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Several of my posts have been deleted tonight. I protest. Here they are again, with original timestamps. In one of his removals, Drini apparently mislaid this counterproposal of mine to the community block of Tony :

The transferred discussion has some omission. The most complete version before deletion by Drini can be accessed here --Irpen 01:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Counterproposal

I don't endorse blocking Tony. In view of many comments from respected editors above, and especially the reasoning of Bunchofgrapes and Newyorkbrad, I call on Tony to take a complete and officially announced break from the block button, for a suitable period of time pre-determined by himself. Please just pretend you don't have it, Tony. 22:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC).

And this post of mine was a comment on Drini's removal of text, which I would be interested in getting a response to:

An ill-judged move, Drini. AN is not a discussion forum? Since when? Sure it is. Why is the long discussion immediately above, not to mention the other long discussions on this page, appropriate for WP:AN — just not this one? A discussion of a proposal for a community block? Moving it to ANI might have been appropriate, but what business does it have on Tony's page? It's a proposal to the community, not to Tony. (Excepting my counterproposal, which is indeed to Tony.) You should move it back. 23:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC).

Bishonen | talk 00:34, 15 September 2006 (UTC).

Were they deleted or moved? There's a very important difference, and someone around as long as you knows what it is. Let's not stir up unnecessary drama here. Mackensen (talk) 00:56, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Deleted and moved. The reason I re-posted my proposal above was that it was no longer anywhere. Drini moved the discussion to User talk:Tony Sidaway , then deleted my proposal from there. It didn't come along for the brief round trip to the Village Pump and back. Drini's actions stirred up unnecessary drama, especially by having no edit summaries. Haven't you been here long enough not to pick on people, Mackensen? Bishonen | talk 01:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC).

Oh, probably. I'm not picking on you, I'm asking a very serious question, and I thank you for giving me the answer I wanted. I 'm certain I could have phrased that better, but what's said is said. For my part, I urged some time go that discussion of this matter either find its way to dispute resolution or simply be would up, instead of playing out here, where nothing will be accomplished except we'll all yell at each other a whole bunch more. Mackensen (talk) 01:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The threads were moved multiple times (for good-faith reasons although it got to be a bit much), not deleted wholesale, but in the process, a few posts got lost in the shuffle. I had to post one comment four times before it stuck, because I was trying to add it to a thread that wasn't on the page where it was when I started typing. Newyorkbrad 00:58, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The transferred discussion has some omission. The compelete version before deletion by Drini can be accessed here --Irpen 01:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Obviously malice aforethought. Let's ban him. I recall a charming posse calling for such an action just last week–and we had a devil of time chasing them off. I've been calling for the termination of the discussion, and I already admitted to attempted censorship above. I should probably be blocked as well for holding contrarian views and for desiring peace and quiet on the noticeboard. Mackensen (talk) 01:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll do my bit for peace and quiet here by not responding to that last comment. Oh dear, wait a minute, I seem to have ... (see paradox or self-reference). Newyorkbrad 01:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Langstaff_Secondary_School

Sorry to burden you guys, but you are admins and did at some point accept your post, with all the unpleasant drudgery that reports like this require ;). Anyway, Langstaff_Secondary_School seems to have had a lot of unreverted vandalism over the last couple of days, and quite possibly plenty before then. It is completely beyond me (well, it woul take an hour or so) to try and fix it and work out the isp to block (there have been a lot of pretty similar ip edits to it). It also seems like it needs protecting. At the moment it's at least partly vandalism, but my options were to revert to a prior state that was probably vandalised, blank it, or stubify it... I wasn't too happy with doing any of these. I don't envy the job of whoever has to fix this Dave 22:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Taken care of. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 23:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Special:Undelete, and User:ForestH2/Signpost

Could someone undelete, User:ForestH2/Signpost/In the news 9/4, User:ForestH2/Signpost/Candidate sues 9/4, and User:ForestH2/Signpost/Technology report 9/4? Thanks. ForestH2 t/h/c 00:05, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2006-09-05/Technology report
• Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2006-09-05/In the news

Feel free to recreate those redirects yourself. The third page was deleted as it was only three lines and "not worthy of an article" apparently. -- Steel 00:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Need "No consensus" AfD close

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Canton Crusaders has not been touched for about eight days, and there is a conflicting consensus. Can someone close this as "No consensus?" I was going to, but I remembered that those who have participated in AfDs cannot close them. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 00:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Relisted. --bainer (talk) 03:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Inappropriate username

User:YouWontUnblockMeBecuaseYou'reProbably(ARepressed)Gay! It's probably already blocked, but I thought someone ought to take a look at this one... —Keakealani 00:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I think this one might need a block too (presumably the same user) User:IHopeYou'reKiddingAboutThatNaziComment.CauseTheyHateGays! —Keakealani 00:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Another: I don't know if I should keep a running list of these: User:IsThisWebsiteRunByTheMarines?..ThenStopBlockingUsGays!

Please use WP:AIV next time, and please simplfy your sig. Yanksox 00:26, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Apologies, I'm still rather new, so I'm not really familiar with the processes behind this. May I ask how to simply my signature? I won't sign with the automatic one, then, now, until I figure it out. --User:Keakealani

These were all blocked previously. You can check yourself before posting to WP:AIV. One of the easy ways is to go to the user's contributions and at the top the page it will list "For <user name> (Talk | block | Block log | Logs)". Click on the "Block log". -- JLaTondre 00:29, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thank you very much...so sorry for the trouble I caused - it was purely newbie blunders, since I've never ventured near this part of Misplaced Pages before *sweatdrop* And Thank you to Yanksox for letting me know about my signature...I was genuinely unaware that it was as long as it was or as disruptive...I hope this one is a bit better? If not, I can prune it down again. —Keakealani 05:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Huge backlog of speedy deletion candidates

Category:Candidates for speedy deletion is filled to the brim. Many of these are obvious deletions (i.e. subpages of banned users). Can some admin just dive in? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:33, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I've started on it, btw, but there is quite a bit. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 01:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm hoping in, I need to get back to the good 'ole stuff. Yanksox 01:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Phishing from wiki@wikimedia.org ?

I received this strange e-mail:

Someone (probably you, from IP address 24.121.44.189) requested that
we send you a new Misplaced Pages login password for en.wikipedia.org. 
The password for user "Janke" is now "XXXXXX". You should log in 
and change your password now. If someone else made this request 
or if you have remembered your password and you no longer wish to 
change it, you may ignore this message and continue using your old password.

What's going on here? The IP above is not even close to mine! Is someone else trying to get my logon password? Greetings, --Janke | Talk 06:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

It's someone else asking for a password reminder, it sends that to your registered and confirmed email address, as the message you got says "If someone else made this request ... you may ignore this message and continue using your old password". As to the other persons motivation, as an IP that user only has one edit so I can see no obvious connection. Beyond that it's guessing, could be someone thinking they could get your password (though that seems unlikely), could be someone who can't remember their own account details etc. --pgk 06:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Only one edit, yes, but probably from an anon IP that is changing with each access (such as AOL)? That edit was certainly not a newbie edit... --Janke | Talk 06:56, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Politics of Israel

This article is blank. Somebody has vandalized it. I don't know if that's proper place to put such an information, but I don't know where else do it. 83.238.15.162 06:49, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. Next time you can fix it yourself by going back into the page history, editing the last good version, and saving it. That overwrites the vandalised copy. Regards, Ben Aveling 06:59, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: Please note that IP 65.105.179.195 appears to be on a blanking-vandalizing spree on Israel subjects, and needs to be blocked immediately. --Janke | Talk 07:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• Seems to have stopped vandalising yesterday. -Mgm| 07:49, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

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