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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:3D Test of Antisemitism which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:32, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Israel

Many of the instances of antisemitism on this page are not instances of antisemitism, they are instances of criticism of Israeli policy. I don;t want to charge in to what is quite a highly charged area, but I am thinking of removing them. What do people think?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolive21 (talk • contribs)

Which ones? ― Padenton|✉   06:47, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I must react to this claim. There's no doubt that the number of antisemitic incidents in UK is increasing due to the israel-arab conflict, and there are actually a lot of anti-Israel incidents across the UK. Some researches fully support this assumption (I think that even in this page u can find sources about that topic). Anyhow, in this specific page all of the incidents are undoubtedly antisemitic. Sometimes, the perpetrator's motive is based on opposing to Israel, but the result is pure antisemitism, such as in the sentence: “We have to kill all the Jews as they kill Palestinians" (comment 27). Once he refers 'Jews", the definition is clear...ScottyNolan (talk) 20:20, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

That a particular person or organisation (police, newspaper, etc.) calls something anti-semitism, is a fact, that a WP editor deduces it is WP:synth, unless those very words (or a precise synonym) is used.Pincrete (talk) 18:26, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

OR, dubious sources and constructive suggestion

This article appears to contain a lot of WP:OR and WP:Synth, where editors themselves are defining what is/is not anti-sem. There are also many basic grammar and factual errors (eg the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Antisemitism is NOT the UK Govt, nor even an official part of it). It is also OVER dependent on this source, which as an 'advocacy group' is probably not RS. I removed the section on 'Easy-Jet' magazine because it was obviously Synth, the original NS article does not mention anti-sem, and the incident was obviously an expensive gaffe by Easy-Jet and gross insensitivity and stupidity on the part of the fashion photographer.

Many of the stories on antisemitism.org.il are mirrored from notable UK/US and other journals, so why not use the original sources and discard those that are not RSed?

The 'Report of the All-Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Antisemitism' is used heavily, so why not devote a section to that report, rather than just using its content? Or improve All-Party Parliamentary Group against Antisemitism, which is barely a stub and link from this page?

Why does the article start in 2000, is there no history of antisemitism before then, or other articles to link to which cover the subject? If it intends to only cover the modern period, it should be renamed.

This subject is not my speciality, but at the moment, a serious topic is being weakened by carelessness.Pincrete (talk) 21:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

There is also a failure to give context eg in the 'Galloway' incident, there is no mention that the CPS found that there was clearly no cause for prosecution, nor that the full quote of the Liberal is:

Ward said Galloway had made a "schoolboy error", adding "of course" Israelis were welcome in Bradford. "Our complaint is not with Jews, it is not with Israelis, it is with Israel and those who support the state of Israel. It is quite dangerous talk, because the danger is of course that anybody from a Jewish background - because people will not necessarily differentiate - is then subject to abuse and anti-Semitic acts, ..... adding: "I applaud much of the work he has done over many years on the issue. But I am interested in a serious campaign to bring about change." Ward said there were now more than 75,000 signatures on a petition calling for a boycott of Israel and sanctions if the "military operations which endanger civilians in Gaza" do not cease. "This is a proper campaign," he said. "I'm not interested in a throwaway remark. Ward is clearly distancing himself from any anti-semitic reading of Galloways words, but wholly endorsing the criticism of Israel.

Similarly, in the 'Waterstone's, Mein Kampf' incident, the 'staff recommendation' describes the book as an essential read for anyone seeking to understand one of history's most despicable figures. A shocking read and a vital warning for future generations. I know that some people object so much to this book that they think it should be banned, but what is anti-semetic about this incident or about this 'recommendation'. Pincrete (talk) 14:45, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Melanie Philips

Is Melanie philips actually a reliable source? She's just a columnist (not any sort of statician or jouranlist?), as is Horowitz blog FrontPageMagazine (which is a right wing blog known to have previously printed fabrications). I'm going to remove them, unless someone can find a source to back up what they're saying? NarSakSasLee (talk) 18:06, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

It would depend on the claim Melanie P is supporting, I have to rush now but will look back later. Pincrete (talk) 18:29, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

I remeber somewhere on this site that FrontPageMag was unreliable given the fact that it is a blog, rather than a news site and therefore lacks neutrality. I will search for it and see what they say. NarSakSasLee (talk) 19:09, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Melanie P would generally be considered reliable for her own opinions and claims, which, I think, would be the case here. Don't know about FrontPage, a blog is not automatically invalid, it depends on the writer/content. WP:RSN is there to help with such questions. Although there are specific problems with some of these 'stories', the bigger problem to me is that the article is not in any sense encyclopaedic, simply a list of events which may/may not have been reliably described as anti-s, all of which are 21st century (did anti-s not exist in the UK in the preceding two millenia?). Pincrete (talk) 19:55, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Improving the article

Hi everyone! I would like to put some effort to improve the quality of this article. I wonder if this is the place for all the "incidents lists", or maybe this article should focus on contemporary trends and also histoy of the antisemitism in the UK. What do you think about removing all the Incidents section? Most of the cases reminde reports from newspapers, and not encyclopedia... Do you think that there is a place in Misplaced Pages for another article contains only the incidents, or it's better to erase them and enrich the article from other sources? ScottyNolan (talk) 21:35, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

You've probably read my comments above. What concerns me is that at the moment the article is no more than a list of ALLEGED incidents in the 21st C. with no clear context or even clarity about what is anti-sem, what insensitivity, what poor commercial choices (Waterstone's and Easyjet seem to me, in the first instance to be an 'unfortunate' choice, (why anyone would want Mein Kampf as a present is a mystery to me, though it was obvious from the fuller accounts that WS were selling it as a warning not as 'propaganda'), EasyJet was a very insensitive choice by the fashion photographer, probably ignorance on the part of Easyjet itself. The info on the parliamentary body should be on that article's page. The longer term history (8-900 years? at least) ties in with the presence of Jews in the UK, both that subject and what pages exist on WP, are not my strong subjects. I do feel that at present it is very unencyc. and was considering calling for help from editors more familiar with this subject area.Pincrete (talk) 23:37, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

As pointed out on other pages, I don't think these incident lists are appropriate unless they are of particularly important incidents. Since ScottyNolan and I have disagreed on this point on other pages, I am a little surprised, but also pleased to see that we now seem to be on the same page? -Dan Eisenberg (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Given lack of objections and RfC results on this same issue at I am going ahead an removing these incidents. -Dan Eisenberg (talk) 22:30, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, in this article the incidents lists seemed a little exaggerated...ScottyNolan (talk) 07:48, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

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Jeremy Corbyn

In the interests of political neutrality; isn't it surely wrong to have Jeremy Corbyn as the only pictured current politician. Nobody is claiming that Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic. If a picture is going to be included shouldn't it be a picture of antisemitic desecration of a synagogue or a cemetery? But not a picture of the leader of the opposition. Garageland66 (talk) 12:16, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

No, as the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn has been implicated in a tolerance of antisemitism by very many sources, it is entirely relevant to include a picture of him. Perhaps if or when Ken Livingstone is expelled, he has been reported to be under investigation again, an image of Livingstone could be substituted, but Corbyn is currently the politician who is most connected to this issue as it affects the Labour Party. That he "repeatedly condemned antisemitism and all forms of racism" (no source cited in the caption below Corbyn's image, BTW) is irrelevant.

While it would be absurd to compare Corbyn to individuals on the far-right, passages on more recent antisemites than Arnold Leese, say Nick Griffin, Colin Jordan or John Tyndall, passages on these individuals are not present in the article as yet. If there was a passage on NF and BNP types with images, it is true including the image of Corbyn would then seem odd. Philip Cross (talk) 14:13, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Philip Cross. --GHcool (talk) 17:01, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

There is almost no evidence and a mass of conjecture in relation to Jeremy Corbyn and antisemitism. Indeed even Corbyn's critics have not actually accused him of being an antisemite. The Conservative Party has also often been accused of racism; but we'd all agree that it'd be wrong to place a picture of Theresa May on the Wiki article on racism in the UK. Garageland66 (talk) 10:43, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

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