Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:44, 14 September 2017

R. Whitehead (MCC cricketer)

R. Whitehead (MCC cricketer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Not notable; not even the individuals first name is known. WP:CRIN only refers to players in Test matches after 1877. Power~enwiki (talk) 01:11, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Question for Power~enwiki. Where does it say in WP:CRIN that it "only refers to players in Test matches after 1877"? I suggest that you read it again, then have another look at the article which has been expanded today, and then ask yourself if this nomination was one of your better edits. Please exercise care when assessing policies and guidelines or you end up wasting other people's time. Jack | 15:46, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

"men's and women's cricket having equal importance, to qualify as the subject of an article in Misplaced Pages: has appeared as a player or umpire in at least one cricket match that is judged by a substantial source to have been played at the highest international", followed by "The substantial source qualification includes any player or umpire (both men and women) who has appeared in a Test match since 1877". Power~enwiki (talk) 23:27, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Try reading the entire sentence after "since 1877;" and you should be able to see that it says rather more than you appear to think it does. Don't you understand semi-colons? I can't decide if this is wilful disruption so let's have a full explanation for your time-wasting. Jack | 03:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Will you please assume good faith? Power~enwiki (talk) 05:02, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Note. This discussion has been taken to nominator's own talk page. Jack | 05:34, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Cricket-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU 01:29, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU 01:29, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU 01:29, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

• Delete- biographical article about a non-notable sports person, based on bare statistical database entries and sources so meagre that the person's full name is not even known. I think it goes without saying that WP:CRIN is way too lax in its standards if it encourages the creation of a horde of contentless microstubs like this one. I could support a merge to a suitable list article, if there is one. Reyk _YO! 06:09, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
• Keep unlike at the other cricket AfD at the moment, this is where I think that WP:CRIN is absolutely applicable. Amongst his appearances, Whitehead made a number of appearances for an "England" side. While that bears no resemblance to what we call the England cricket team now, it means he would most certainly have been a notable cricketer of the time. The fact that he played during the 18th century, when we have very limited sources, means that we have limited information (including, as noted, not even a first name). However, there is no doubt in my mind that this player is notable. Can the article be improved to better show that? Sure. Harrias 09:16, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
• Keep. As Harrias rightly points out, this is a stub with plenty of scope for expansion. Whitehead was both a player with several first-class appearances and a significant match organiser. Okay, we don't know his first name (yet). So what? Jack | 11:38, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Update. And to prove the point, the article has been expanded somewhat with plenty of additional citations taken from impeccable book sources to provide a more complete summary of Mr Whitehead's career. I could go much further but this will do for now. I'm glad Harrias pointed out that sources from the 18th (and, indeed, much of the 19th) century are limited. In that context, we can do without ignorant comments like "non-notable sports person, based on bare statistical database entries and sources so meagre that the person's full name is not even known". There's always one, of course. It was common practice in 18th century newspapers to name someone as "Mr R. Whitehead" and not use a first name. We are lucky he was one of the so-called gentry or we might not even have an initial. This convention presents problems for modern researchers which any credible editor should readily acknowledge. Jack | 15:46, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

• Keep. Not going to turn this into some petty little drama. Just stating one simple thing. We either define a level at which cricketers are notable and stick to it, or we don't. To make petty case-by-case exceptions without legitimate and universal statistical justification just because WP:IDON'TLIKEIT, is pointless and, as we are now finding out, a waste of time unless something is done about it. Want to alter WP:CRIN? Individual AfDs are not the place to attempt to alter WP:CRIN criteria. The fact that WP:CRIN criteria are *painfully* easy to understand and implement is making this whole business a joke. Bobo. 16:17, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
  • I disagree that they are easy to understand. The specific sentence "Hence, a player who represented Kent in the earliest known inter-county match in 1709 is as notable as a player who represented Kent's first team in any recent County Championship season." is clear, though. Power~enwiki (talk) 05:49, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
• Keep as passes WP:CRICN. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:53, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
• Comment as nom the page clearly meets WP:CRIN now. This can probably be SNOW closed as keep. Power~enwiki (talk) 05:49, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
• Comment on closing unless Reyk changes their mind, this should not be closed as SNOW, or nominator withdrawal, as there is reasonable (if minimal) opposition. Harrias 06:56, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
• After reading Jack's extraordinary bad faith tirade against me, I no longer care what you people do and I'd prefer to be left alone. Reyk _YO! 07:44, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

• AfD debates (Biographical)
• AfD debates