Misplaced Pages:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 October 8: Difference between revisions

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	*'''Comment''', this is a shame since I created this to differentiate between those currently in the public eye who work for the BBC as journalists and those who for whatever reason do not. I will however support the proposed action (and I promise not to create this category a third time if it isn't wanted). I had previously created ] though this was deleted per the guidelines of the Manual of Style. ] ] 19:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)		*'''Comment''', this is a shame since I created this to differentiate between those currently in the public eye who work for the BBC as journalists and those who for whatever reason do not. I will however support the proposed action (and I promise not to create this category a third time if it isn't wanted). I had previously created ] though this was deleted per the guidelines of the Manual of Style. ] ] 19:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
	** I'd say the solution is for you to create a ], prefaced by something along the lines of "] October 2006, the following people are ]s and ]s who have worked for but are not currently employed by the ]: ..."   Regards, ] <span style="font-size:90%;">(])</span> 05:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)		** I'd say the solution is for you to create a ], prefaced by something along the lines of "] October 2006, the following people are ]s and ]s who have worked for but are not currently employed by the ]: ..."   Regards, ] <span style="font-size:90%;">(])</span> 05:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
			:That is a good idea, I will do that. Thank you for the suggestion. ] ] 14:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

	====] and ]====		====] and ]====

Revision as of 14:00, 13 October 2006

< October 7	October 9 >

October 8

Category:Animation heroes

Category:Animation heroes (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete- Overcategorization There could possibly be more than 10 heroes in each animated show. It also would be a POV. For example, one person could see an animated character as a hero, while another person could see them as a villan. UnDeRsCoRe 00:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete senseless category. Note that this was created without any parent categories, a sure sign of the failure to investigate and/or understanding existing category structure and guidelines. Postdlf 01:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete. If this category had all the articles that could be classified under it, it would consist of pretty much every comic book character, as there is no objective criteria for being a hero versus a somewhat good villan or just a minor character. -Amarkov 04:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - topic more than covered by Category:Animated characters --HKMarksTALKCONTRIBS 16:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. Wryspy 16:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - I think I'm going to start making a list of words to avoid in a category title - hero appears to be one of them. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete Be sure to put "anti-hero" on that list, Jc37. CovenantD 04:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete, The category Category:Fictional heroes already covers this. Shannernanner 12:22, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete as unmanageable category. ···日本穣 03:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Pro-choice politicians / Category:Pro-life politicians

I first noticed this category earlier today while working on West Virginia 2nd congressional district election, 2006, of which Shelley Moore Capito is the incumbent. Capito is listed in Category:Pro-choice politicians, apparently due to her inclusion on this list of endorsements. However, I quickly found this page, which clearly indicates that her voting record is not one that the average American would consider "pro-choice". Indeed, if any single-issue voter in this district is that hung up on the subject of abortion, they will almost certainly vote for her opponent, who is pro-choice. In addition, the Democratic Party blog Ourcongress.org has the following to say about Capito: "On abortion, for example, she takes a straight pro-life line yet invariably tacks on empathetic language designed to make her hardline position sound moderate. " So all in all, Capito's overall position on this issue appears to be a matter of opinion, depending on one's own POV. Only when you narrow the issue down can you pigeonhole her as being definitively "for" or "against" a certain abortion-related issue.

So after looking over all of this, I can't help but feel that these two category names are irreparably POV. The term "pro-choice" is too vague to be of an unquestionable meaning; "pro-choice" on what, exactly? Abortion itself? Late-term abortion? Embryonic stem cell research? Parental notification? Etc. The only possible remedies I can see are either a renaming to the somewhat harsh (and not particularly NPOV themselves) Category:Pro-abortion politicians/Category:Anti-abortion politicians, or else to break down the categories into more factually-verifiable subcats (for example, Category:Politicians favoring embryonic stem cell research/Category:Politicians opposed to embryonic stem cell research). My initial guess is that most editors aren't going to want to do either, so my !vote is to delete both, though I'm quite amenable to splitting both per my previous sentence if there's any support for it.

For those outside the United States, I should point out that many voters in this country consider a politician's positions on abortion-related issues to be one of the single biggest factors that determine their vote. Given that, I think such largely unverifiable, sweeping, slapdash tagging of politicians as universally "pro-choice" or "pro-life" is a particularly bad idea for Misplaced Pages, and could even eventually result in a so-tagged politician complaining to WP:OFFICE about having their positions misrepresented (or worse).

(Note: These categories were technically up for CfD a while ago, but that was only because someone shoved them and a number of other categories into a barely-related CfD, seeking POV renames as a WP:POINT violation. As far as I can tell, this is the first legit CfD ever for these categories.) --Aaron 22:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete: divisive and not the sort of information which sells an encyclopedia. GilliamJF 22:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete. The categories, and any possible renaming, for that matter, split by implication what is an incredibly complex subject into two camps. Entirely ignored is the possibility that someone may be against abortion, but still think others should be free to do it. Even the proposed split does that to some effect. -Amarkov 23:48, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete both. Way too complex of a subject for an encyclopedia. --- RockMFR 01:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete both. These categories stupidly simplify individual positions into two catchphrases. IF an individual's views on abortion are significant to his biography, his article should explain those views. Categories like this just equivocate, papering over genuine differences. Furthermore, issues are a poor basis for categorization because every politician has opinions on every issue, and there's no reasonable way to sort out the "important" ones that deserve categories—the end result is a flood of category tags at the bottom of every article. Category:Politicians that endorse ethanol? Postdlf 01:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete both and leave {{deletedcategory}}. Given the time and energy these sensitive/controversial "pro"/"anti" issues sometimes consume, maybe the notables involved might best reside in single categories whose names follow a non-partisan formula... "People known for views on Issue"...? Regards, David Kernow (talk) 03:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete as recreation, and create a new speedy criterion on the base of this since we see it a lot. >Radiant< 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete both. These are a waste of energy that could be used more construtively. Wilchett 15:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete both per above. Wryspy 16:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment. Ouch. As the person who allegedly "shoved them and a number of other categories into a barely-related CfD, seeking POV renames as a WP:POINT violation" I'm a little hurt by such a statement. The relevant discussions are at Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_November_24#abortion_related_categories and Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_November_24#Category:Pro-life_politicians. It wasn't so much a point issue as an attempt to get a clear consensus on all such categories. They were certainly treated as valid nominations at the time, and discussed without any accusations in a considered manner. As to my thoughts here,
I'd like to once again register that I'd see deletion as the best option, per my previous arguments in Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_November_24#abortion_related_categories and Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_November_24#Category:Pro-life_politicians. Steve block Talk 17:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Oh no, Steve, I wasn't talking about you at all, and never knew about those CfDs until I saw your links to them just now in the above post. The WP:POINT reference in my nom is this mess, which took place in June 2006. (Nobody listed your CfDs on the category talk page, so I just presumed the only one listed there was the only one that had ever taken place.) --Aaron 17:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Bloody sods law ain't it. Such unjustified umbrage taken. They say pride cometh before a fall too, don't they. My apologies for taking the wrong end of the stick. Steve block Talk 17:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete - another "supporter/critic of <issue>" category. The defining difference (so far) is to categorise by membership in an organisation not by issue. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Touchy subject; can be abused pretty easily. Have to watch out for Politicians' aides. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisGriswold (talk • contribs) 18:05, October 9, 2006 (UTC)
Delete. The main problem is that it is impossible to provide a reference for the inclusion of a person in a category. The article should discuss the person's political views with appropriate citations; categories that do so without attribution possibly violate WP:BLP. · j e r s y k o talk · 13:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete (speedy if recreated). Pavel Vozenilek 13:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete and protect against re-creation. -choster 14:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete as POV. ···日本穣 03:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep This is quite measurable. The initial proposers deals with misuse more than whether this a valid category. Misuse can be dealt with pretty easily. In the US just see who gets 90%+ at either NARAL Pro-Choice America or the National Right to Life Committee. Outside the US you can also check voting records. Politicians describe this way, run this way, and therefore it is notable to their public life.--T. Anthony 04:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete Hopelessly POV category without adequate sourcing or granularity requirements. Tbeatty 07:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom and above commentaries.ThuranX 03:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Comic Book Movie actors

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was already deleted. David Kernow (talk) 04:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Comic Book Movie actors (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
This category is misleading. The name makes it sound as if they are actors in a comic book. Should be either deleted or renamed to "Category:Actors who have portrayed comic book characters" UnDeRsCoRe 21:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete this unnecessary category that violates several Misplaced Pages guidelines including title capitalization. Right now, WikiProject Comics members are seriously debating how to clean up categories. Breakdowns for every type of casting would be never-ending. Actors who played comic book characters, actors who played werewolves, actors who played dentists, actors who played butchers, bakers, candlestick makers. Stop it, stop it, stop it. Doczilla 00:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment- Agreed, they should stop creating these useless categories. UnDeRsCoRe 00:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete useless category. Postdlf 01:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete, bad idea and too broad. Title also a little unclear. Over-categorisation. Steve block Talk 17:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - After seeing several of these kinds of things on CfD, I'm thinking that maybe all the "actors/models of <creative work>" should probably be deleted.
- 1.) It over-populates the bottom of actor pages.
- 2.) It's much better handled as a part of a "List of characters", which contains the actors who portrayed them.
- 3.) The usefullness of this as a category for research is spurious at best (though I'm willing to listen to examples where they would be useful for research)
- 4.) As the similar model categories got the axe already, so too should these actor ones.
- 5.) The only criteria for admission is that you have an article.
I think 5 reasons should be enough for now. (copied from a similar discussion) - 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Listify to List of actors by comic book character. — Reinyday, 20:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete. I just don't see the point to this category. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 22:02, 9 October 2006 (UTC)`

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baby Pokémon

Delete per nomination. RobJ1981 00:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep We have a Basic/Stage 1/Stage 2 cat, why not baby? It's a good way to organize information, and that list is soon to be malformed by smerging with a hundred others. And it is defined what a Baby Pokémon is, they can't breed and they were priorly only available via breeding. Highway 20:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep and make the definition in the category header more clear. ···日本穣 03:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Animal control

Category:Animal control to Category:Pest control

Rename, because "pest control" is a more established phrase. GilliamJF 21:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename per GilliamJF. In the United States, at least, the term "animal control" is generally synonymous with "dogcatcher". All the articles tagged with this category are about killing bugs. --Aaron 00:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename per above; less vague. David Kernow (talk) 03:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename for the reasons already stated above UnDeRsCoRe 20:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename per nom. ···日本穣 03:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Planets of the solar system

Note: I added the tag to these categories as well:

Rename Category:Solar system to Category:Solar System

Rename Category:Hypothetical bodies of the Solar system to Category:Hypothetical bodies of the Solar System

Rename Category:Solar system in fiction to Category:Solar System in fiction

Rename Category:Solar system images to Category:Solar System images

The following articles may also need to be moved if the consensus here is to rename:

List of solar system bodies formerly considered planets to List of Solar System bodies formerly considered planets (this is a redirect page created on 2006-05-14).

Table of planets and dwarf planets in the solar system to Table of planets and dwarf planets in the Solar System

Solar system in fiction to Solar System in fiction

Lastly, see the discussion below regarding the deletion of Category:Solar system natural satellites. If kept, the category would need to be renamed as well.
—Chidom 08:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Back to the original nomination/discussion:

Rename Category:Planets of the solar system to Category:Planets of the Solar system; to follow case used by related categories/articles. David Kernow (talk) 23:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

(Moved from Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion#Speedy renaming): I also added the tag to the category page; it had none.—DomBot 20:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Object - Per Solar System, it appears that either both words should be in caps or neither should be in caps. --After Midnight 13:04, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- In which case, it's probably better if both are capitalised, since - rightly or wrongly - "solar system" tends to get used for any star's planetary system. Also, as you point out, the main article is at Solar System. Grutness...wha? 23:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
  - What happened to stellar system? And the use of 'the' makes it clear that it is a specific solar system. Maybe "Planets of Earth's solar system" or "Planets of system Sol"? :-) No, I'm joking. Category:Planets of the Solar System seems fine. Carcharoth 07:58, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
    - Is "stellar" mostly used with reference to more than one star...? Unsure, David Kernow (talk) 03:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
  - Seems to me from the above that one or both the first letters deserve capitaliz/sation. (There is only one S/system associated with the star Sol.) Regards, David Kernow (talk) 03:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename to Category:Planets of the Solar System. --- RockMFR 00:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
American Heritage Dictionary* entry is: "solar system...often Solar System". Since either both lower-case or both upper-case appear to be correct, Rename to Category:Planets of the Solar System to match the main article style: Solar System.

*solar system. (n.d.). The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Retrieved October 08, 2006, from system Dictionary.com website—Chidom 05:23, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Rename using Solar System - to match main article. Dugwiki 16:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename to Category:Planets of the Solar System. Wryspy 16:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename to Category:Planets of the Solar System. - While Misplaced Pages convention seems to be to have the second word in lower case, I concede the points above. (Didn't we just have a similar discussion?) - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename to Category:Planets of the Solar System - Although "Solar system" or "Solar System" are acceptable in various scientific journals (as a search with the ADS Query Form will reveal), "Solar System" is preferable for Misplaced Pages. The noun is a proper noun that refers to a specific place, so the first letters of both words should be capitalized much like the first letter of the word "city" is capitalized in "New York City". (Could someone check to see if this is Misplaced Pages policy? I have not been able to find this clearly stated.) George J. Bendo 06:32, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename all per nom. ···日本穣 04:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Former BBC newsreaders and journalists

Merge into Category:BBC newsreaders and journalists. This is non-standard way for people categorization. bogdan 20:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge, concur. >Radiant< 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge per nom. Recury 19:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment, this is a shame since I created this to differentiate between those currently in the public eye who work for the BBC as journalists and those who for whatever reason do not. I will however support the proposed action (and I promise not to create this category a third time if it isn't wanted). I had previously created Category:BBC Newsreaders and Journalists though this was deleted per the guidelines of the Manual of Style. Wikiwoohoo _talk 19:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'd say the solution is for you to create a List of former BBC newsreaders and journalists, prefaced by something along the lines of "As of October 2006, the following people are journalists and newsreaders who have worked for but are not currently employed by the BBC: ..." Regards, David Kernow (talk) 05:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

That is a good idea, I will do that. Thank you for the suggestion. Wikiwoohoo _talk 14:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Marvel Legends and Category:Spider-Man Classics

Delete both of these categories for toy lines that dump in every article on a Marvel Comics character who had an action figure. Bad idea. The articles for both lines already contain lists. Postdlf 20:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nomination. RobJ1981 20:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Both are useless, redundant categories that verge on advertising. Every Marvel character will repeatedly get categorized with multiple toy lines, often from the same company. Listify. Don't categorize. Doczilla 23:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete, a list better serves the purpose. Or create a category for characters made into action figures. But then you'd have to put Sir John A. Macdonald in it. No, no, delete. And check for other action figure line categories. --HKMarksTALKCONTRIBS 03:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete as bad idea, over-categorisation and best implemented through article space rather than category structure. Lists would work better if thought non-trivial. Steve block Talk 16:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Thinking about every fictional character that's ever had a toy/lunchbox/etc tie-in. Dracula and Frankenstein - not to mention Superman and Spider-Man - would have category lists longer than their articles, I think. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - It's just the beginning of the crazy. A bad precedent. I don't want to see Mego/Superpowers/Mini-Mates categpries soon. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 22:05, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Erdős number categories

The Erdős number is the "distance" between a mathematician and Erdős, i.e. people who co-authored a paper with Erdős have number 1, those who co-authored with Erdős' co-authors have number 2, etc. (it's based on Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon)

It might be an interesting piece of geek/academic/maths humour, but I don't think it is appropriate to have categories for such trivia. A list would be better. bogdan 20:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete/Listify as nominator. bogdan 20:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Strong delete - this does not contain any important individual about the person. , indeed I say the category is harmful as it establishes undue importance to one particular measure, the Erdos number is no more important than say the Hilbert Number. It also gives the wrong idea of what Small world phenomenon are about, its not so much any individual person but the conectivity of the entire network. In Template talk:Infobox Scientist there was a recient discussion about the Erdos Number field and the result was that it should be deleted. --Salix alba (talk) 20:58, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Strong delete per nom and Salix alba. --Aaron 22:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Not a chance.--Mike Selinker 06:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep. The nomination says "it's based on Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon", but I believe it would be more accurate to say the kevin bacon one is based on this.. and Erdos numbers are considerably more important the a "Hilbert number", or any other such kind of number, because they widely known and understood among mathematicians, and usually surprisingly small - since Erdos collaborated with over 500 distinct mathematicians.. which i'm guessing is the most ever.. so Erdos numbers are surprisingly well-documented; it's much more than "maths humour". but i guess i only get a single vote.. Mlm42 09:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

That said, it is true Erdos numbers 3 and greater become fairly uninteresting (even i have an erdos number of 3, so maybe i'm biased in this discussion!).. really, only categories for Erdos numbers 1 and 2 would be of interest.. from the sounds of it, they're all going to get deleted anyway. :) Mlm42 09:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Listify and delete. >Radiant< 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Maybe a person's Erdos number is worth mentioning in the article, but I doubt that it's important enough to categorize people on. Misplaced Pages is a general interest encyclopedia, and I doubt that this would be of much interest to anyone but mathematicians (to be honest, I doubt that even most mathematicians would consider it a significan characteristic either). A list might be okay though, so I would support listification. —Cswrye 14:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete Pavel Vozenilek 14:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep 1 and 2, Delete the rest, per suggestion above. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Listify. — Reinyday, 20:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - This is amusing trivia that warrants its own article, but it does not warrant the creation of new categories. George J. Bendo 15:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep for 1 and 2. Neutral on others. Erdos numbers are the original classification of this type, with the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" being based on them, rather than vice versa. Bluap 15:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Listify and delete. Didn't we have this discussion before? Keeping only 1 and 2 invites the others to be recreated in the future. Vegaswikian 19:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment: How about keeping 1 and 2, and having a "3 or greater" category for the rest? That should avoid the recreation of the others. ···日本穣 03:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Weak keep - relatively harmless, Erdos is an unusual case. Guettarda 13:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Malta articles with bad orthography

The result of the debate was speedy delete. David Kernow (talk) 03:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Empty, miscategorised. Its meaning was discussed on . The related template is also unused. With UTF8, redirects and alternative spelling listed in the articles this cat is useless. Pavel Vozenilek 18:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Speedy delete. Doczilla 00:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Tennessee Volunteers softball players

Category:Tennessee Volunteers softball players to Category:Tennessee Lady Vols softball players

Rename. Women's athletes and teams at the University of Tennessee are formally known as "Lady Volunteers", which is generally shortened by sports media and most fans to "Lady Vols". College softball in the U.S. is exclusively a women's sport. Note that the corresponding category for Tennessee women's basketball players is at Category:Tennessee Lady Vols basketball players. Dale Arnett 16:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename. True nuff.--Mike Selinker 19:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename to Category:Tennessee Lady Volunteers softball players - Abbreviations are usually frowned upon in category names, and "Lady Volunteers" is the team's official name anyway. —Cswrye 14:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, but it's not what they're called. If you watch a UConn-Tennessee game, you will hear a hundred mentions of the Lady Vols and likely not one of the Lady Volunteers. It should be "Lady Vols," in the same sense that we have category:New York Knicks players instead of category:New York Knickerbockers players--Mike Selinker 20:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename both softball and basketball to "Lady Volunteers" (spelled out), per Cswrye. - 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: If we're so tied to official names, then we need to change New York Knicks to New York Knickerbockers, Miami Heat to Miami HEAT, "UConn Huskies" to Connecticut Huskies, and "UMass Minutemen" to Massachusetts Minutemen, to name a few. I was taking a look through the official Tennessee women's athletics site, and found the following:
  - The official women's athletics logo does spell out "Lady Volunteers".
  - However, the URL contains "utladyvols", and the web site is officially branded as UTLadyVols.com.
  - Also, the stories on the official site are at least as likely to use "Lady Vols" as the spelled-out name, if not more so.
  - The official Hall of Fame of the Tennessee women's athletic program is the Lady Vol Hall of Fame.
  - Bottom line: The "Lady Vols" nickname, while not the complete nickname, is just as official as "Lady Volunteers". Also, Mike is right in noting that media are FAR more likely to use "Lady Vols" than "Lady Volunteers". — Dale Arnett 01:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Rivers of Miami-Dade County, Florida

Merge into Category:Rivers of Florida, seems a little premature to me ... Meybe someday. -- ProveIt 16:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Support merge. How many county category tags would the articles for the mighty Mississippi or the omnipotent Ohio have? This is overcategorization. Surely someone genuinely interested in a particular county could include what rivers flow through it in that county's article. Postdlf 02:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- In this case, btw, where the only entry, the Miami River (Florida), appears only to run through that county, it can just be dropped directly in the county category (though please don't do this with larger rivers). No need for a subcategory. Postdlf 02:14, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:User:Amrykid/Pages/Edits

The result of the debate was speedy delete, as user-orientated. David Kernow (talk) 04:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete as personal user cat. -- ProveIt 15:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete. >Radiant< 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. — Reinyday, 20:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:User:Amrykid/Pages

The result of the debate was speedy delete, as user-orientated. David Kernow (talk) 04:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete as personal user cat. -- ProveIt 15:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete. >Radiant< 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. — Reinyday, 20:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:UAG alumni

Delete as empty, or rename to Category:Universidad Autónoma de Guadalajara alumni. -- ProveIt 15:25, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Rename iff it can be populated, if not then delete without prejudice. >Radiant< 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Support - agree with Radiant. Rename if it can be poplated, delete otherwise. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:ITAM alumni

Category:UDLAP alumni

Category:IPN alumni

Rename to Category:Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México alumni, Universidad de las Américas, Puebla alumni, and Category:Instituto Politécnico Nacional alumni, but please keep the old names as a redirect. -- ProveIt 14:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

(grouped together for convenience) Concur. >Radiant< 14:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I understand, but also want to keep the this entry CFR tags working... -- ProveIt 16:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename per nom - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Bluegrass musicians by nationality

American bluegrass musicians
Bluegrass musicians by nationality
Delete and merge, since all Bluegrass musicians are American, merge all to Bluegrass musicians. Pink moon1287 14:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge to Category:Bluegrass musicians, though I might dispute that all bluegrass musicians are American, the majority likely are. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment Not all bluegrass musicians are from the US. At least some are from Canada and the Czech Republic has a bluegrass scene with groups like Druhá Tráva. The Russian group Bering Strait has also been considered bluegrass at times. Still there might not be enough from elsewhere, due to Wikipedians relative disinterest in many nations or "rural" art forms, to justify a "by nationality" subcat.--T. Anthony 03:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge per Jc37 due to low number outside U.S. If there are enough, separate categories can be created for non-U.S. musicians as needed, and if several other country categories appear, then eventually the cat can be recreated. ···日本穣 04:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Autonomous University of Nuevo Len alumni

Merge into Category:Autonomous University of Nuevo León alumni. -- ProveIt 14:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Merge. It looks like it's the difference between Len and León? - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Mexican universities alumni

Rename to Category:Alumni by university in Mexico, convention of Category:Alumni by university. -- ProveIt 14:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:SACDs

Delete per above. >Radiant< 13:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose per the Super Audio CD article. This isn't all CDs, as User:Radiant suggests, but a specific type. And I think that this could be useful in research. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Rename to Category:Music released on Super Audio CD. — Reinyday, 20:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete, but Rename to Super Audio CD releases if kept. DVD-Audio and 5.1 Music Disc are similar. Since they appear to not have a category for releases, then we probably don't need this one either. If there are other categories, then consider the delete vote voided. In that case, we need to discuss all of these at one time and any others like them that may be out there. Vegaswikian 05:19, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
If kept or no consensus, rename to Category:Super Audio CD releases per Vegaswikian. David Kernow (talk) 04:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Occult Influenced musicians

Category:Occult Influenced musicians (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, A recently create category that has an imprecise and inherently WP:POV definition. Musicians have been added to this category on the personal whim of its creator, without any evidence to support their inclusion. Because of the vague nature of the category definition anyone that the creator suspects might be influenced by the occult can be included, leading to a strange mish-mash of unrelated musiciansbeing included. Unless clear, objective criteria can be established this category is meaningless. Gwernol 11:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete, trivia. >Radiant< 13:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Too trivial for a category. Also, this is POV depending on how one defines occult. —Cswrye 02:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete per vagaries of "influenced",
but if kept, rename to Category:Musicians influenced by the occult. Regards, David Kernow (talk) 03:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete this judgemental, vaguely defined, citation-deficient, POV-invoking category. Wryspy 16:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Listify and then Delete - "influenced/inspired by" requires citations. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Strong delete per nom. I really wish not just anyone could create categories... Postdlf 21:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I guess the idea of making category creation a tool to earn has been thrashed about before, to no avail or consensus...? Regards, David Kernow (talk) 04:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
  - We can only dream. I'm pretty sure I've raised the idea once or twice. "Anyone can edit, blah blah blah..." ; ) Postdlf 19:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment I wonder if it might be better to instead have a category for occult-influenced albums. I imagine there are albums where musicians or groups indicated they intentionally used occult idea as an influence, even though they may not otherwise be "occult-influenced musicians." (At least not consistently occult influenced) Also it might get around that this is possibly insulting as a category--T. Anthony 10:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Binary minor planets

Category:Binary minor planets into Category:Binary asteroids

Merge There doesn't appear to be a real distinction between the two. RandomCritic 06:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose per Minor planet, and its talk page, and it's even better explained at Asteroid. - jc37 18:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose, the reverse would make more sense, as not all minor planets are asteroids. In any case, they should not be merged. 70.55.87.17 00:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Minor planet satellites

Merge --Cat out 10:05, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose per Minor planet. See my comment about Category:Binary minor planets, above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by jc37 (talk • contribs)
Oppose, clean up categorization instead. 70.55.87.17 00:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep - This could be a very useful category. George J. Bendo 06:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Solar system natural satellites

Category:Solar system natural satellites (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete This is an otiose category redundant with "Moons" -- there are no moons known outside the solar system. The category contains only one item, Category:Hypothetical bodies of the Solar system which is furthermore inappropriate for it. RandomCritic 06:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment, perfectly valid, citable cateory. There had been discoveries of many natural satelites (planets) on remote stars. Natural satelite includes but is not restricted to "moons" or natural planetary satellites. --Cat out 10:09, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep and populate with all articles in Template:SolarSatellites Footer. You could argue to rename it to Category:Solar system moons, but you can't say it is redundant with "Moons" as that category houses articles about non-Solar System moons and other subcats like Category:Fictional moons. — Reinyday, 20:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment could be better at Category:Moons of the Solar System 70.55.87.17 00:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge to Category:Natural satellites - See the discussion for Category:Planetary Satellites below. George J. Bendo 06:44, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Planetary satellites

Category:Planetary satellites into Category:Moons

Merge The category is superfluous and redundant; all moons are "planetary satellites" (in the broad sense implied by this category) and vice versa. RandomCritic 06:09, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose but would support the reverse, Category:Moons into Category:Planetary satellites. A better category would be Category:Natural satellites --Cat out 22:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment Category:Natural satellites was already discussed and rejected in favor of Category:Moons RandomCritic 00:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not believe the issue was properly explored in either the September 26, 2006 debate or the July 17, 2006 debate. The latter has its primary argument that "Natural Satelites" was too general and would include planets. While the argument is valid, that should not justify the action taken. Natural Satelites of planets can simply be called something like "Category:Natural Satelites of Planets" or "Category:Natural planetary satellites". Proposed categories such as "Category:Natural satellites of Mars" looks very reasonable and spesific. Perhaps it is time to rexamine that desicion. --Cat out 01:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps useful to have the following in view...?:

"A natural satellite is a non-man-made object that orbits a planet or other body larger than itself. They are often called moons. The term natural satellite may also refer to a planet orbiting a star, as is the case with planets orbiting the Sun and even the Sun itself as it orbits the galactic center of the Milky Way."
— Opening lines of the English Misplaced Pages's Natural satellite article, as of 03:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Regards, David Kernow (talk) 03:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The Moon is Earth's only natural satellite. It has no formal English name other than "the Moon", although it is occasionally called Luna (Latin for moon), or Selene (Greek for moon), to distinguish it from the generic term "moon" (referring to any of the various natural satellites of other planets).

They both work by their dicionary def no doubt but "Moons" is a bit of a confusing term. After all Moon is a single object orbiting earth. Rename should be done for clarity purposes. The term neaded an introduction to clarify what a moon is after all. --Cat out 09:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

David, can you clarify whether you would find "Category:Natural satellites of planets" problematic, since it doesn't fall into the trap your quote springs. Steve block Talk 16:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Should be fine, I think – but how about:

Category:Natural satellites

Category:Moons of Mars

Category:Moons of Jupiter

...i.e. Category:Moons of NamedPlanet

...possibly Category:Moons of dwarf planets

etc.

... or am I missing something...? (Suddenly I feel I am...) Regards, David (talk) 05:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge per nom as "Moons" is not confusing (all elementary students that I know understand that several planets have moons and that we have one that we call the Moon). — Reinyday, 20:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose if you look at Category:Moons, you see moons of objects that are not planets, like "dwarf planets", asteroids, and the like. (Yes, a "dwarf planet" is not a planet. See the new definition of planet). 70.55.87.17 00:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge/Rename to Category:Natural satellites - The rings of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune may be considered "natural satellites" but not "moons". Misplaced Pages should therefore contain a general category for natural satellites, a sub-category for moons, and a sub-category for rings. George J. Bendo 06:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment - From what I'm reading in the above comments, the concern is about precision. I like George J. Bendo's comment above. My only objection is to "natural satellites", since, as noted above, the planets themselves are natural satellites. Natural satellites could be the parent cat for planets (and dwarf planets, and minor planets, and and), and planetary satellites, with the latter being the parent for moons, and rings. All that said, I'm sure that there is even a better way not discussed yet... - jc37 01:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

People usually do not refer to objects as being satellites of the Sun, although this is technically correct. A brief explanation in the category would clarify that the term "natural satellite" as used here refers to the satellites of objects orbiting the Sun. George J. Bendo 06:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment I honestly think that this is a work in progress and I wonder if perhaps it should be delisted, discussed at someplace without a time constraint. This is too important to just be rushing into. We've just had so many planetary CfDs lately. - jc37 01:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:History of the Kurds

Oppose Sounds unnatural. Metthurst 14:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Are you suggesting that Kurds are not people? --Cat out 16:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - Its fine as it is.Bakaman _Bakatalk 20:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

It isnt inline with naming conventions... Ethnicities are always given the additional "people" for clarity purposes. --Cat out 22:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Rename per nom.
Abstain, as Misplaced Pages seems to use both "Xs" and "Xish people". David Kernow (talk) 03:44, 9 October 2006 (UTC), vote withdrawn 05:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose The existing name is what I would expect this category to be called. Wilchett 16:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Rename as per naming conventions. --InShaneee 16:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- What naming convention? If you mean one for categories of people that isn't relevant imo as this is a history category. Brammen 23:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose in the absence of evidence of a relevant naming convention. Brammen 23:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Rename, per nom. Guettarda 13:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose current name shorter, unambiguous and there is no convention. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Kurds

Support Pavel Vozenilek 02:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Category:Kurdish people does seem to exist with Category:Kurds. Wierd. One should go. I nominate Category:Kurds to be deleted for being redundent. --Cat out 09:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge Category:Kurds to Category:Kurdish people and delete. — Reinyday, 20:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge to Category:Kurdish people per Cat.-choster 14:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge to Category:Kurdish people Guettarda 13:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)