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A fact from Michael Flynn appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 17 January 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know ... that Michael T. Flynn is the top U.S. military intelligence officer in Afghanistan and has been pushing for closer cooperation with Afghans? A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2010/January.

[REDACTED]

He is charged

He is charged for false statements to FBI - . Regards. 46.70.10.185 (talk) 14:45, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Yes, and it appears that the content has been incorporated into the article. GMG 15:11, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

There are conflicting reports about whether he has already plead guilty, or is merely expected to do so imminently. Either way, once confirmed, the guilty plea should also be worked into the article, as (so far as I understand) the acceptance of this plea effects a criminal conviction. bd2412 T 16:03, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Hmm... well as of 42 minutes ago, the NYT was under the impression that he had not yet plead guilty to anything yet, and I'm comfortable going on their assessment of the situation. GMG 16:07, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

And now the New York Times says he has plead guilty.207.225.131.141 (talk) 16:57, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a wording issue, he agreed to a plea bargain so he plead guilty. Due to his agreement we don't have a charging document, we have a information document and a plea document, we also do not have an indictment. So many ways these things can be said... Jasonanaggie (talk) 21:43, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

"retired United States Army Lieutenant General felon" . . . what kind of writing is this" There's no such thing as an "Army Lieutenant General felon." How about "retired United States Army Lieutenant General and convicted felon"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:579:9220:100:5D4E:7B1B:CC59:B0AB (talk) 09:06, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Now He Has Plead Guilty

Please include this.207.225.131.141 (talk) 16:59, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done GMG 17:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Yates

Sally Yates was Acting Attorney General at the time she spoke with McGahn, not Acting Deputy A.G. 98.10.165.90 (talk) 17:57, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done GMG 17:59, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Picture change

Flynn's picture in military uniform behind the flag is a disgrace to the honor of the armed services. His picture should be replaced with this:

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2122545/former-donald-trump-security-adviser-michael-flynn

The image used is an official work of the US Federal Government, and is therefore in the public domain and free to use. The image you link to does not appear to be a usable image on Misplaced Pages. GMG 20:20, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I would be in complete agreement if the photo you proposed was a free licensed one, but it looks like it is Copyright Reuters. Do you perhaps have another possible free licensed one? When we get a mug shot or a prison photo I agree we should replace it as the one that should be the cover image. Jasonanaggie (talk) 21:39, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Move to Michael T. Flynn to protect Michael G. Flynn (his son)

Should this article be moved to "Michael T. Flynn" from just "Michael Flynn" as his son is "Michael G. Flynn" and since the father is now a felon, we don't want to get the two confused. Any one else feel this is a good idea? Jasonanaggie (talk) 21:36, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

No. We just had a move discussion about this half a year ago. The father is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Michael Flynn". – Muboshgu (talk) 21:40, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Agree with Muboshgu. This subject is the primary topic of the name. bd2412 T 21:42, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Suggest additions of reported "firings" by Obama & Trump

Header: sentence: "He was appointed by President Barack Obama as the eighteenth director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, serving from July 2012 to his retirement from the military in August 2014."

Suggest changing to "He was appointed by President Barack Obama as the eighteenth director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, serving from July 2012 >>>until his dismissal by President Obama for subsequently reported insubordination, mismanagement, and temperament problems.* He retired<<< from the military in August 2014. "

Sources for *: Associated Press https://apnews.com/ce90066b4e20483da79adf21910da0c7 The Oregonian http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/02/michael_flynn_fired_once_by_a.html NBC News https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-warned-trump-against-hiring-mike-flynn-say-officials-n756316

Reason: it is official news, widely reported, never disputed. Flynn himself said he was "pushed out". I think "until his dismissal by President Obama." is a conservatively fair way to state it. It's also historically important to say this in the header since he was also "fired" by the next President Trump.

Header: sentence: "Flynn's tenure of just 24 days was the shortest in the history of the office."

Suggest changing to "Flynn's tenure of just 24 days was the shortest in the history of the office. As a result, Flynn was forced to resign from two high-profile positions by two politically opposite presidents in less than three years.**<<<

Reason: adds historical context.

Source: no source needed, just count the years between.

Thank you for your consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Familyhandyman (talk • contribs) 21:39, December 1, 2017 (UTC)

Makes a good point. I would agree with it. Jasonanaggie (talk) 21:45, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Saying that Obama and Trump are "two politically opposite presidents" is true, but WP:OR/WP:SYNTH and appears to be an attempt to insinuate negatively about the subject. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:49, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I don’t understand the proposal because it is not stated clearly. It starts out by saying “Header: sentence: ‘He was appointed by President Barack Obama as the eighteenth director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, serving from July 2012 to his retirement from the military in August 2014.’” What does “Header: sentence” mean? The rest of the proposal is similarly difficult to parse. I suggest you make the change and then revert it. That way you can show us a diff. Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:31, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2017

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add as a news source The Scope Weekly NFarkas (talk) 07:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Not done for now: Where do you want the source to be added in the article? Terra  10:14, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

I was suggesting it at the bottom of the article, as a news source --NFarkas (talk) 18:08, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Flynn was not convicted of anything last December

Hi, your first paragraph says that Flynn was "convicted" last December. For a conviction there has to be a trial and verdict so I think that might be typo. He was definitely investigated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.192.239.231 (talk) 17:39, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

He WAS convicted, in that he pled guilty. That ends the "trial" with a verdict of guilty. See the references in the article. --MelanieN (talk) 19:35, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

And it says December 2017, not December 2016. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:44, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Adding "convicted felon" to the introductory sentence

The recommended change follows:

EXISTING (as of 3 Dec 2017, 1420 UTC) "Michael Thomas Flynn (born December 1958) is a retired United States Army Lieutenant General who served in the U.S. Army for 33 years, from 1981 until 2014." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.172.47.181 (talk • contribs)

RECOMMENDED "Michael Thomas Flynn (born December 1958) is a retired United States Army Lieutenant General and convicted felon, who served in the U.S. Army for 33 years, from 1981 until 2014."

• Oppose We already say that in the third sentence of the lede paragraph. It would be totally UNDUE to put it into the lede sentence itself. --MelanieN (talk) 23:39, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose - Agree with MelanieN that it is not proper form to call someone a "convicted felon" in the first line of their biography. The current construction, where it appears in the first line but the third sentence, strikes the appropriate tone. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 08:36, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Comment on Picture Change request

Regarding the request for a picture change above (]). I respectfully disagree, and recommend very strongly against such a change. Mr. Flynn has not been stripped of his rank nor any of his medals. Until such an event has taken place, his picture ought to remain where it is, reflecting the rank and honors that he did indeed earn in a prior phase of his life.

I refer you to how Misplaced Pages handled the case of Russell Williams (criminal). He is the multiply convicted murderer and former Canadian Forces Colonel. The Talk section seems to indicate (Talk:Russell_Williams_(criminal)#Photo_change.3F) that a photo of Mr. Williams in military uniform was removed from the article as a result of his being stripped of his rank. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.172.47.181 (talk) 15:24, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Well, I will say that the aim of an encyclopedia article is to provide a comprehensive overview of the subject, which for a biography means a person's entire life. A photograph should therefore be most relevant to their life as a whole, and not just what's currently on the news. It should also be as neutral as possible, and I suspect that the suggested photo above probably fails both criteria.

That's all of course above and beyond the fact that we cannot substitute even an uncontroversially better non free photo for a free one, even if we had one. So I suspect that at this point the matter is pretty open and shut. GMG 16:53, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Michael Flynn Democrat?

It was pointed out to me that the article lists Flynn's political affiliation as Democrat. The article supporting this points to a CNN article that says: I "grew up as a Democrat in a very strong Democratic family, but I will tell you that Democratic party that exists in this country is not the Democratic Party that I grew up around in my upbringing," he said. "I vote for leaders."

This seems like thin evidence to label him a Democrat. I mean, after all, he did endorse Donald Trump at the National Republican Convention in which he called to imprison Hillary Clinton. Occam's After Shave (talk) 00:10, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

I'd suggest we simply remove "political party" from the infobox. It's not essential information for someone who spent most of his life in the military and in non-political jobs. And as you say, it's murky. He may have grown up a Democrat, but I'm not aware of any recent evidence that he still considers himself one. His recent actions would suggest otherwise. --MelanieN (talk) 21:29, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to remove "political party" from the infobox. I don't think political affiliation is usually listed in the infobox of military officers. Discussion can continue here, if anyone wants to restore it. --MelanieN (talk) 23:56, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, the infobox is for non-controversial/clear information anyhow. Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:02, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Edit needed - incorrect date re: Op-ed for The Hill

The following line:

"On November 8, 2017, Flynn authored an op-ed for the Hill, entitled 'Our ally Turkey is in crisis and needs our support'"

References an incorrect date. It is actually November 8, 2016. You can verify by following the link to the article. Please update! Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.234.253.9 (talk) 20:23, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Corrected. PvOberstein (talk) 21:26, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Cohen-Watnick

Someone came into the IRC help channel and disputed that Flynn met Ezra Cohen-Watnick at the DIA, as the "Defense Intelligence Agency" section currently reports. They provided The Atlantic which gives three different accounts of Cohen-Watnick first meeting Flynn, including the "at the DIA" one. It's somewhat newer than the two sources currently cited in the article, Newsweek and Politico. Given the murkiness of the information about Cohen-Watnick and the low relevance of when they first met to Flynn, I'll remove that statement. Huon (talk) 20:51, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Categorization as "People convicted of making false statements"

On my user talk page, User:Politrukki has objected to this categorization on the grounds that it is a BLP violation. I find that argument to be entirely unfounded - it is a matter of public record and extensive reliably-sourced reporting that Flynn entered a guilty plea in federal court to the crime, admitting his responsibility and his criminality. An accepted guilty plea is a conviction, and the fact that Flynn has not been sentenced is of no consequence. Flynn has been convicted of the crime in question, and if we are going to have that category (which is a question for somewhere else to answer), he ought to be placed in it. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 08:19, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

See WP:BLPCAT: "the case for each content category must be made clear by the article text and its reliable sources" – the article text or cited sources don't say that Flynn has been convicted and you're making a synthesis. Our article of convict says this: A convict is "a person found guilty of a crime and sentenced by a court" or "a person serving a sentence in prison".

References

1. Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language, p. 311 (2d Coll. Ed. 1978).

As I understand it, because Flynn has not been sentenced, the court or Flynn can still withdraw the guilty plea. I also believe that both scenarios are very unlikely and would require something like procedural error, but Misplaced Pages is not a crystal ball. I reviewed more than fifty news articles to get this right. That is, either say in article text that Flynn has been convicted or remove unsourced categories. There's very little support to say that Flynn has been convicted as of yet.

Let's assume that "convicted" is verifiable. Just because something is verifiable does not make it a defining characteristic and we should not use the categories unless reliable sources consistently define the subject as a convicted criminal. Politrukki (talk) 09:59, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

This is a true statement, as the Enron prosecutions showed when the former CEO died before sentencing, though I am not sure it matters for the case of categories. More problematic is the categorization of being "of making false statements." This is a rather nebulous term that lacks specificity. The specifics I believe is that the false statements were given to the FBI with the criminal part attached to the FBI rather than just false. This isn't a perjury case. --DHeyward (talk) 10:20, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

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