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Guy Chapman? He's just zis Guy, you know? More about me

Thank you to everybody for messages of support, and to JoshuaZ for stepping up to the plate. I have started to write what happened at User:JzG/Laura. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible. Just zis Guy you know? 19:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

If you need urgent admin help please go to the incident noticeboard. To stop a vandal, try the vandal intervention page. For general help why not try the help desk? If you need me personally and it's urgent you may email me, I read all messages even if I do not reply. If next time I log on is soon enough, click this link to start a new conversation.

This page may contain trolling. Some of it might even be from me, but never assume trolling where a misplaced sense of humour might explain things. This user posts using a British sense of humour.

• Misplaced Pages:WikiProject History of Science
• JzG (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves)

Eatonsh=Continueddonations=Returnoftheman

With literally no break at all, permanently blocked user Eatonsh aka Continueddonations is back, this time exclusively focusing on the main Schizophrenia and the Talk:Schizophrenia page. That they all are the same user is obvious if you look at his writing style, interpunction, topics, timing, appearance, mode of reasoning, etc. that IMHO it does not need any further proof. However, I am not sure how to deal with it any further; I admit I am somehow involved in this by now (he has called me a Nazi perhaps once too often by now), and reverting him all the time is a drag and looks, in spite of my explanations, odd to some other users on the page in question, some of which are helping him. Thus, I am herewith asking some of the users, admins and ArbCom members who were involved in this case previously to check and to either suggest what to do or to initiate some remedial course of action. Many thanks in advance. Ebbinghaus 23:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi, just a note that this user is still engaging in violations of Misplaced Pages content and conduct guidelines using the sockpuppet Cestlogique (talk • contribs); Icankeepthisupforever (talk · contribs) is another probable sock. --Muchness 08:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocked. Please report on WP:ANI for faster response, though. Guy 09:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I will do so in future. Regards. --Muchness 09:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

67.77.215.178...BenH sock?

Hello. I noticed that you have already blocked one of BenH's IP sockpuppets. The style and contributions of this particular IP in the headline look just like the contribs of BenH and the other sock. Could you please check if my hunch is a correct one, because I have never reported anyone like this and have no idea how else to do it except asking a familiar admin like you. Thanks. Thistheman 22:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Yup, characteristic. Blocked, deploying rollback. Guy 22:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

United States military nuclear incident terminology

Regarding the deletion review of United States military nuclear incident terminology, what do you mean by "In what way is this not a copy of a primary source"? I thought the deletion was regarding A5 (transwiki articles--specifically Wiktionary, in this case) -- not copyright problems. What primary source are you referring to? Am I missing something? -- Renesis (talk)

...Tuatafa Hori.

Tuatafa Hori (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Again.

She was randomly deleted.

Again.

I was told to post sources.

She was deleted after I posted FOUR credible sources.

And not a single explanation to me.

What the flip?!

Bohemienne815 00:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Again "she" was deleted as functionally unverifiable and previously proven to a very high degree of credibility as a hoax. There is absolutely nothing random about this. Here's a hint: if your best source is a Geocities page, you're better off looking at another subject. Guy 09:26, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to assume that you didn't read the references, because it wasn't just a geocities page this time. I listed three other sources... two books and an article. I'm not sure what's so uncredible about two books and an article. I just don't think it's fair that she keeps getting deleted. She's basically my favorite princess ever, and I can't stand seeing her without a[REDACTED] page. :( Bohemienne815 04:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm waiting for a reply. Just to remind you. Bohemienne815 21:46, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

You've had all the answer you're getting on this one. Guy 22:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Whatever. I'm sorry, I know I must be getting annoying... I just want to clear the air. If you all honestly think she's a hoax or whatever and doesn't belong on Wiki then fine. I'll stop. I'm just really interested in oceanian culture, and I think she deserves a page. What would be the harm, after all.. I doubt that many people would even notice the article. And I can't help but wonder why my other three sources were ignored. But.. I will cease and I hope that this doesn't lower my credibility or ruin any sort of editor to editor relationship between us :)

Thank you to you and Wiki for at least allowing me to try, but I'm sorry to say I don't think I'll be contributing much more. Bohemienne815 22:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

A large part of the probem is that you have not contributed anything other than this, which was discussed in depth after previous deletions. Creating Tuatafahori (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) was also a bad move. Sources which can't be readily accessed are of no value where there is no editor in good standing to vouch for them, especially where there is nothing "out there" to back them up and where there is credible evidence to support the idea of a hoax. Guy 22:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Deletion review of eAthena

Trolling IP

The same IP that was messing with the Diana Irey article is now playing games withme and Tupsharru, while not contributing to wikipedia. Can you block? Arbusto 00:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Reported to the community. Arbusto 01:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Time for a block or a semi-protect on the Murtha page. See the noticeboard for details. Arbusto 18:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Timmy12 and checkuser

Please link to the checkuser result. I checked WP:RFCU and didn't see a request. Also, if you are going to warn me about "following" Timmy12 around, maybe you should warn her about stalking others. She's been stalking Rosencomet for some time, and I note from her contributions that she went out of her normal set of article to edit Michael Roach (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), an article that both Ekajati and I worked with to resolve WP:BLP issues. —Hanuman Das 15:27, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Clarification

I'm trying to understand your comment "should we just block the warring parties" (plural). The New York Times mentioned Diane Farrell's AfD; I suppose these articles are noticed during a hot campaign. WP:BLP is—or at least I thought it was—an important concern for Misplaced Pages at the highest levels. Copyright violations are also an important concern. I've been watching all of the election articles for a week, making sure everything is well-referenced, and removing BLP violations. I've referenced the content that was there, and tried to make sure text is accurately sourced across the election articles. Since I don't know all of the candidates well, I don't know if some of the articles are good, bad or different: I'm sourcing the text that's there, placing fact tags where needed, removing BLP violations as they occur, and making sure new edits are correctly sourced—detailing and explaining all of my edits on the talk pages.

When Francisx (talk · contribs) originally inserted the campaign ad text, it wasn't correctly sourced, and still isn't (CNN. 8/31/2006 and CNN. June 24, 2005 are examples of her sourcing). As I was trying to locate sources to fully reference her text, I discovered the source of the text was the campaign ad; this was after she inserted the weasely "some critics however allege" comment, also sourced to campaign material, not a reliable source. For my efforts at explaining policy on talk pages and avoiding edit warring on the articles, I've been on the receiving end of a failure to assume good faith and lack of civility (diffs listed on FloNight's talk page,) accusations of Wikistalking on my talk page from Francisx, and lack of civility because I removed a completely inaccurate direct quote attributed to Shays, a BLP violation.

I understand that there's a civility issue among the Wiki admins right now, which is sapping everyone's time and attention, and no one may have time to consider BLP, copyright, and civility against those of us in the trenches trying to uphold Wiki policies. You've been, so far, the only admin to even respond to the issue. It seems no admin has time to look at the history and the broader issues of copyright, BLP, and lack of civility down here in trenches, where we're trying to write an encyclopedia, based hopefully on reliable sources rather than partisan campaign material. Since you referred to "warring editors" (plural), I'm wondering if you are really suggesting that I should be blocked from editing for removing BLP violations and copyvios? Aaron Brenneman brought the issue to AN/I: I thought I was trudging along fine, discussing policy on the talk page, but I did request admin help, since I'm the only one watching out for BLP violations on those articles. I hope my contributions to Wiki are viewed as more than one of the "warring parties" who are sourcing edits to campaign material and copying TV ads. Clarification would be appreciated. I've put a POV tag on that section of the article, since no one seems willing to help me remove the copyvio and POV campaign material: it's no longer my problem. Sandy 16:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I thinkt here is a huge problem with highly partisan editors fighting it out in Misplaced Pages articles. The higher our profile gets, the more of it there is. More and more politicians, companies and individuals come to see Misplaced Pages as a key ingredient in their promotional campaign. That is why I think we should simply stop covering political races and other current events and leave them to Wikinews - the fights over neutrality are virtually unmanagaeable. I advocate waiting until a year after any event before covering it in any depth, to allow a perspective to develop.Guy 20:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

That's the argument many of us made on AfDs, but the situation continues. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding over just what constitutes an encyclopedic, bibliographic entry. Shays' article is already being loaded up with criticism, always inserted as tendentious POV, and that's unfair to an incumbent, because a challenger doesn't have a well-established record to criticize. At any rate, my larger concern is where the admins are on this, why the civility issues have been allowed to continue, and whether you were suggesting an editor who is enforcing BLP should be blocked. At any rate, the incivility problem seems to have subsided as result of the light shone upon it by the AN/I commentary. I hope you're enjoying your travels, Sandy 20:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Messages from others to Francisx (talk · contribs) about civility and good editing practices are falling on deaf ears. She has now added accusations of sockpuppetry on my user page (later deleted and moved to my talk page) to her list which includes incivility, failure to assume good faith, and accusing me of Wikistalking. Incivility continues on article talk pages (I asked for a source for an edit; she labeled it as "disruptive", "wasting time" and "pedantry"). She is not getting the message about the importance of Wiki policy on civility and good faith. Rather than focusing on learning policy, making productive edits, and building a neutral encyclopedia, she seems to be focusing most of her energy on me. If she could be convinced to focus on learning about NPOV, original research, reliable sources, citing sources, and tendentious editing, rather than on me, better articles and consensual editing might result. While each incident of incivility and failure to assume good faith appears minor, the pattern is becoming a concern. Sandy 12:32, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

"Weasel Words"

Chris Shays claims he is an independent in Congress. His critics (the DCCC, which I cited) say he isn't. Right now, the article seems to side with Shays -- I think at least a rebuttal is in order. I don't see how partisan spin from Shays' website is considered NPOV while sourced rebuttals from his opponents aren't admissable. The question of Shays' independence is fundamental to understanding his role as a Congressman -- it is't just an issue in the election. Even if we need to reword things, it seems like the deleted material should be returned.Francisx 17:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Sure, we should always include the oponent's knocking copy verbatim in every political bio :-) Guy 20:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's an ad from Farrell's opponents: how 'bout we slap some sources on it (easy to do) and add it, to build a better encyclopedic bibliography—we wouldn't want to leave something important out  ;-) Diane Farrell: Coffee talk with the Taliban ... followed by interesting, sourcable commentary. Sandy 20:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Hate to bother you more

I asked a Policy question at the Village Pump:

A third party just wrote me: Please leave Rosencomet and his articles alone. Can this third party enforce this, especially given that the person in question, Rosencomet, has edited hundreds of articles, perhaps more? Any articles involving certain themes are being considered his, even if he did not originate them.

If this is not the right forum to ask this question, please point me in the right direction. Thanks! Timmy12 18:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

This is, as you guessed, the wrong forum for this question. Try Misplaced Pages:Help desk or Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy) or Misplaced Pages:Village pump (assistance). --cesarb 03:22, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions above. I tried them but none are appropriate for my problem which is becoming more critical. I need actual help and protection. I need access to a source that can give me some real information. A pattern of harassment is being repeated toward me that started a few weeks after I got an account at Misplaced Pages a month or so ago. That resulted in me being accused of being a sockpuppet. The charge was ruled false but it was a horrible ordeal for me. The same people have started again. Can you direct me to a source, place, or person before something bad happens. Timmy12 12:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't let "Timmy" fool you, take a look at "his" contributions. He didn't try your suggestions at all. Also, talk a look at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse, especially the note about posting on Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical) for help, and Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Mattisse (2nd) for why Timmy perceives this as happening "again". —Hanuman Das 13:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't get what is going on or why these people are after me so. What I am being accuse of, exactly? I can't believe that the edits I have made warrant this type of aggression toward me, even if they don't agree with my edits. Yet this is an exact repeat of the previous sockpuppet accusation. I looked at the Timmy12 and checkuser above with the Michael Roach Michael Roach (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and but I am not understanding what that is supposed to prove.

I will not edit again until I hear from you that it is safe to do so. Timmy12 18:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Alex Han

Alex Han (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I see you've deleted Alex Han as copyvio (and then it was deleted as vanity). We've gotten permission to use the text so it's no more a copyvio, and as a good faith sign, I?m restoring it, but it not being a copyvio doesn't mean it cannot be dleeted by other means, so aFD it if you consider -- Drini 19:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh dear, why do people do this? Doesn't the man realise that he can't possibly be dispassionate about his own son? Wait until someone else writes a biography, I say. Guy 20:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Patrick Buri

Patrick Buri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

whats the problem with the patrick buri page ? --212.203.115.157 15:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

The creator reacts hysterically to anything other than its preferred text; it won't even allow the name to be spelled out on Talk pages discussing its deletion. Guy 22:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

... to the extent that I have just had to revert their change to the section title and link above. Guy 09:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

wp:Stalk

How can I deal with this: Another afd he has disrupted. Also look at his edit history for the past few weeks. This is the type of editor[REDACTED] can do without. Arbusto 17:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's stalking. Honestly. Just don't take it personally; I get frustrated by inclusionists advocating keep on dire subjects of no conceivable interest to anyone but the subject's mother, the best thing is not to care; if they keep yet another article on an unaccredited bible "college", just do what you can to make it honest. If there aren't sources to make it honest, leave it a month and document that fact. Guy 22:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Xosa

Just out of curiosity, whatever happened to User:Xosa? --24.10.172.236 19:54, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Definite sock of Zephram Stark. Guy 22:54, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

In other words, Xosa disagreed with User:SlimVirgin or User:Jayjg, the two Zionists who control content at Misplaced Pages. Guy's help is implicit because he's too worried about his position to note that the emperor has no clothes. If you don't believe me, look at Special:Contributions/Xosa and try to find anything that he did wrong. Xosa's only crime was not subjugating himself to Zionism, as Guy apparently has. --71.89.38.210 18:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

How to rectify

Jz...

I am fairly new to[REDACTED] and recently managed to have a page removed by you. I am a little embarrassed, I must say. I had written an article about the company that I work for. I had seen many companies with their own page and wanted to be sure that our company went down in history with the same fair and balanced (to the best of my ability) page as the others. If you'll notice that on the third party logistics page there are several links to other company pages. I was not aware that by signing up and creating the page that I would create such a controversy or bad name for myself. I would like to see our company listed and would not mind if anyone else created the page for it in a tone that was appropriate. I had reached out for assistance to be sure that my tone was fair only to discover today that I was posing my question in the wrong area.

So, how does one go about getting pages listed as these that are listed on the third party logistics page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/3PL

Examples of 3PL providers

ATC Logistics & Electronics, Hanjin Logistics, ICSA Group, Transplace, Ryder, UPS SCS, Penske Logistics, Comprehensive Logistics, Blantyre Merchants Logistics,Modern Freight Company, Freight Hauling Logistics (FRHL), C.H. Robinson Worldwide, Total Logistic Control, Total Quality Logistics, Inc., Mærsk Logistics(Maersk), Federal Express, DHL, United Parcel Service, TNT N.V., Trinity Transport, Inc., Kenco Group, Inc., BAX Global Inc., ECS warehouse, TVS Logistics services, Wincanton PLC, USXL Worldwide, Transfreight, Nexus Distribution, Menlo Worldwide

I've looked at the ip of a couple of creators to find that they yield no useful information on whether the person was an employee or not. In hindsight I suppose it would have been best to create from home?

Thanks for your help and have a great day.

Step 1: remove all redlinks, weblinks and unlinked names.

Step 2: verify that the remainig blue links all meet WP:CORP and nominate any which do not for deletion (see WP:DP)

I have already done step 1 :-) Guy 21:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Opinion please

I am under the impression that we don't need a list of every (non notable) hospital in the entire world. Clearly someone disagrees, because we have articles like List of hospitals, List of hospitals in Africa and List of hospitals in Egypt lying around. I was thinking of putting them all up for AfD, but I'd like a second opinion before I do. Thanks. -- Steel 21:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh christ - I can hear it now: "All hospitals are notable, keep all hospitals..." Yes, AfD them. This is what categories are for. Guy 21:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, good. It'll have to be a job for tomorrow though. -- Steel 21:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Non-Notability

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Non-Notability. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Non-Notability/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Non-Notability/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, -- Drini 22:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

John Doolittle

John Doolittle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) An annon has reverted the removal of the criticism section. I've taken the liberty (perhaps wrongly) to revert the annon's action. Though you would want to know, ---J.S (t|c) 00:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Can you do me a favor? User:Devilmaycares has been adding some highly slanted material to John Doolittle... (oddly the exact stuff a banned user was adding previously). Maybe if two people admonish him he'll stop. ---J.S (t|c) 21:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess his response is a fairly clear indicator of his attitude. ---J.S (t|c) 15:33, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Lostpedia

Hey, I remember talking to you the last time I tried to get Lostpedia an article. I remember you telling me to go through the right channels and stuff, and the reason I'm attempting to try and get the article back now is cause I felt we had some notability from the Lost Experience that would satisfy Misplaced Pages rules. Can I possibly ask you to read the comment I've made at Talk:Lostpedia#Discussion, as well as possibly review the deleted content using your Admin powers? Then, would it be possible to chat to you about your opinions and stuff? I don't want a great war going on, I'm just looking to maturely discuss points, as well as possibly hear about what it WILL take to justify an article (as from accounts right now it seems like "a miracle" lol). Thank you very much for all the help you've given me in the past, its very much appreciated. Cheers, --Nickb123 3rd 22:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

You'll have a hard time here, it was deleted and the deletion reviewed. Right now we have a link to it on Lost, which is fine by most people. Misplaced Pages is not a weeb directory, after all. Guy 09:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, but I'm still on the "notability" page. Just as long as we keep the conflict mature eh. I don't want counterproductive name calling anymore than you do :-) --Nickb123 3rd 16:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Notability is subjective. I want to see evidence that Lostpedia has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial treatment in reliable secondary sources. What we have seen thus far is either unreliable or trivial. Guy 18:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

WP:WONK

Whoa!Looks like my asking questions about it led to its userifying. My apologies. :P — Nearly Headless Nick 15:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with that. I am coming to the view that we should prune project space of all cruft and just have very short policies, slightly longer guidelines, and as little else as possible.

What do you think of this?

4. What is the difference between guidelines and policies on Misplaced Pages? How important is it that guidelines be followed by admins as well as non-admin users? Do Misplaced Pages administrators, as the representatives of the community and (possibly) role-models to the other users need to strictly adhere to guidelines as well as policies? — Nearly Headless Nick 16:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know where bullet point 4 comes from (RFA?) but in order of importance:

1. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopaedia, a collection of that which is known from reputable sources, presented in neutral terms.
2. Misplaced Pages policies support the above.
3. Misplaced Pages guidelines and processes can give useful guidance in how policy is and should be applied.
4. You cannot either legislate or document Clue.

For my money a good admin should be able to demonstrate the ability to apply items 1 and 2 in the face of blind adherence to 3. Ideally this should be achieved through the process of debate, showing those who advocate the slavish following of process precisely why, in that specific case, the encyclopaedia can be improved by ignoring it. I pretty much ignore the questions on RFA anyway, preferring to look at how the editor actually works in practice. With time I could formulate the ideal set of answers to the questions and copy-paste them into the template, thus making them redundant :-) Who's going to answer "I want to be an admin so I can delete all articles on that non-fiction crapo and block everybody who is not a YTMNDer"? They really are a bit naive. Guy 18:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

User we discussed earlier.

FYI, I have filed an RfC about his actions. JoshuaZ 20:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ackoz

This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.

Based on his representations to the Arbitration Committee, Ackoz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is unblocked. Ackoz is placed on probation for one year. Should he edit in a provocative manner he may be blocked for an appropriate period of time, up to a month in the case of serious offenses. Should Ackoz edit while blocked all accounts may be blocked indefinitely. Should Ackoz revert to his previous pattern of sustained trolling a community ban may be imposed. All blocks and bans to be logged at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Ackoz#Log_of_blocks_and_bans, with the reason given.

For the Arbitration Committee. Arbitration Committee Clerk, FloNight 23:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Menage article

Please see my recent comments at Talk:Ménage_à_trois#Image_again. I'd appreciate it if you would offer your opinion in the talk page, and leave the image alone so that others can comment too. We are trying to find a consensus, and basically, you are stepping on toes by changing the image when that is not wanted by the consensus. When we we submitted the RfC, we were asking for opinions on the matter, not asking for people to come change things according to their opinion. I appreciate that you have good intentions, and look forward to your opinion. Atom 03:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You have it the wrong way round. The responsiobility for justifying inclusion is yours, you nead to leave it out for the duration. Guy 09:46, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Guy, I've tried to explain and be reasonable. I've explained that the image was already in the article, and that you removing it is the problem. I've tried explaining how there is a regional difference in the usage of Menage, and that where I am from (and in most english speaking countries) the term is used primarily as a sexual euphemism. Trying to change the minds of all non-french speaking people is a waste of time. I'm not asking you to change your opinion, just to respect the majority of us who have a different opinion.

When you remove the image from the article, it interferes with us trying to gain consensus. What I am trying to say diplomatically, is that you are being disuptive, rather than working with me, or others editing the page. Of course, you can behave as you wish, I am trying to indicate how that affects others. Reading the comments, it would seem that current consensus is for continuing inclusion of the image, and for having other images that reflect other aspects of the topic.

I focus primarily on sexology and sexuality articles, and watch hundreds of articles in that area of Misplaced Pages. Other than a change I recall you made in the "female ejaculation" article, I don't remember seeing you participate in this area much. AT any rate, images in sexology and sexuality articles are often controversial, which is why we are discussing issues like this at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality/WIP-image-guidelines. It is a work in progress, and has more to be done, but perhaps discusses issue relavent to this article.

Again, I am asking you to stop removing the image and participate in the process. Regards, Atom 12:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You are ignoring two facts: first, you must justify inclusion, not I removal. That has been pointed out many times. Second, I am participating in the process. I'm just disagreeing with you. Apparently disagreeing with you is the same thing as not participating; this is known as tendentious editing. Guy 16:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

YouTube memes article

Notable YouTube memes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Are you suggesting that we actually remove (or merge and redirect) all the YouTube crap into this one article and then nuke anything which is not covered in multiple non-trivial reliable sources? If that is actually what you are saying then I will do what I can to help with the process, starting with seeing how much we can get on YouTube itself. The approach taken on YTMND where we leave the assessment of significance to the YTMND community and link to their own wiki for anyone who is interested is, I think, a good model, since it removes the inevitable tension between fans and policy. Removing multiple articles on passing fads, of whatever source, is and always will be a great idea, and I apologise if I have misunderstood your intent here. Guy 09:25, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Guy - my answer to your question is yes - this is exactly what I am proposing. I think it's better to link so-called YouTube celebrities to a single article linked to (or even part of) the main YouTube article. These people have done nothing to make them notable except posted videos on YouTube, and it just invites trivial facts that don't mean anything. I can't see how most of the articles could ever be expanded to a good or featured quality either (lonelygirl15 might be an exception if it turns out to be a long-running series or a movie or something...). I didn't know what YTMND was until you told me, so perhaps it was me that didn't understand. My aim is to remove the useless articles rather than create more and it was never my intention to have both. Let me know what I can do. (JROBBO 03:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC))

I think the best way to proceed is to merge and redirect any existing YouTube cruft into the main article at YouTube, until that section gets too bog - at which point it can either be pruned or forked. Images should not be necessary. Half a dozen items is probably about right. Guy 11:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you want to stop the debate on the Notable YouTube memes then so I can have a go at doing that before it gets deleted and I'm unable to access the information? JROBBO 01:08, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Opinion requested

Hi! As an admin who has not been previously involved, and as far as I know holds no strong opinion on the matter, could you take a look at this thread at AN/I? The user has been asked to stop by several administrators (Morven, Renata, Kusma and Freakofnurture) before, but the problem is still ongoing and a fresh view from an administrator would be appreciated. Many thanks, Aquilina 10:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Response

• I have not pressed on or done anything of the sort. And yes, I did get the message. Perhaps I do not understand, can there be consensus building? Please, attempt to be kind and polite, and I will listen and obey. Smeelgova 09:00, 19 October 2006 (UTC).

• Smeelgova, Jossi is an admin, a long-term and respected member of the community who came here to give you some advice for your own good - namely that recruiting !votes in a deletion debate is one of the things which really gets people's backs up. The correct response is "Oh, OK." Please just learn from it and move on. Making a mistake once because you didn't know about something is No Big Deal. Arguing the toss about how it wasn't really a problem and it's all someoen else's fault and nobody should have the temerity to tell you that you've violated the community norms, well, that's the kind of thing that tends to have no good result. Guy 11:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Wow, so many new admins make me confused! I still maintain that since the original notice, I have ceased whatever it is that you all had a problem with. I have only continued this discussion because I still want more clarification. There was a reference to "consensus building" above. How does one go about "consensus building" without risking being summarily blocked by an all-knowing Misplaced Pages Administrator, who judges something not to be "consensus building" but something else, in their opinion? What is consensus building if you are prevented from posting on others talk pages about things that interest you, or things that you want to build consensus on? Yours, Smeelgova 11:24, 19 October 2006 (UTC).

So just accept that you have been informed of a community norm of which you were ignorant (God knows there are enough of them) and drop it. It's the argufying that causes the problem. One goes about consensus building through processes such as requests for comment. Guy 11:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice just given as advice, however I still don't appreciate your command tone/grammar "So just accept that...and drop it.", That's not nice. I can choose to accept what I wish and/or drop what I wish. There's no way that I should get blocked just for refusing to end a discussion about something on a talk-page (especially my own talk page), if I've already ceased the editing-actions in question. Anyway'... another question: OK, so you said I can go to requests for comment for "consensus building". But that looks like it's just for existing disputes. What about just things that I want to inform other editors of similar interests about? How can I get the word out to editors of similar mind, who may not mind a simple note on their talk pages? Is there a policy or procedure for this? Yours, Smeelgova 12:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC).

Article RfCs exist to help establish consensus in content disputes. Whether or not you appreciate the tone of advice given to you is pretty much irrelevant: when someone tasked by the community with policing its policies tells you that you should not do something, the correct response is to learn and move on. Wikilawyering about the status of the advice, and the tone in whihc it is given, is considered disruptive. It really is no big deal unless you make it one; you seem intent on doing so. I'm sure that is not your aim, so again I suggest you just drop it. Guy 12:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Smeelgova (talk · contribs) and AfDs; it's worse than you think

Hi Guy ... if you get a chance, please go back to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Lobbying in AfDs and read my comments there. The actions of Smeelgova (talk · contribs) in one AfD are but a tiny part of a much bigger mess involving tendentious editing on a whole range of articles, and I think some admin needs to be warned about it. --Aaron 13:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Complex. Time for an RfC, I think. Guy 17:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Please just give me a chance and watch to see if my actions have actually changed. No one has done that. Please take a step back all of you, breathe, and realize that you are all getting angry over my questions and comments and words to you, when I stopped the actual actions in question the first time Jossi mentioned it to me. I want to learn from you all, and be part of this community, just give me a chance please and don't get so angry at me so fast. Thank you. Smeelgova 18:22, 19 October 2006 (UTC).

No, we're not getting angry, we're just irritated that your reaction to being corrected was to attack the messenger. Guy 19:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Attack the messenger? All I want is more information, and answers to my questions. And yes, it seems like you all got very angry, very fast, and didn't give me a chance to respond. That's my opinion. Thanks for the response. Will you give me a chance to learn, be able to listen to others and be taught, and give me a chance to be part of the community in a more warm and welcoming fashion? Thank you. Smeelgova 19:18, 19 October 2006 (UTC).

If you were paying atention you'd realise that the whole point was that we want you to learn and move on. Jossi's original comment to whihc you took such exception really was no big deal. People spam talk pages all the time, usually with the best motives, and if they've not been told it's frowned on they can hardly be criticised for it. What we do is point out, politely but firmly, that we don't like that sort of thing, and mostly folks just accept it and carry on. That's an end of it, as far as I'm concerned, since I'm pretty sure you've got the message.

As to the other issues, they are more complex and you'll need, I think, some guidance from someone with more time to spare than I have right now. You might try the association of members' advocates. Guy 19:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hi there! There is presently an arbitration case relating to Fresheneesz, whom you might remember from the UniModal discussions in April. I have seen some indication that you may have been the target of vexatious litigation, or possibly harassment, on his part. Speaking as his present target, I would appreciate it if you could comment on your experiences with him. Thanks. >Radiant< 15:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

My experience with him is that no amount of patient explanation will ever persuade huim that he is wrong, or that your view is based on anything other than blind prejudice. Actually this is a little unfair - I have a stubborn streak a mile wide myself - but I found him to be possibly the single most frustrating editor I have ever come across. See Talk:Personal rapid transit and archives, Talk:UniModal and archives, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Personal rapid transit/UniModal, Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-04-22 SkyTran/UniModal uncooperative admin etc. I suspect that the crusade against notability is the result of the removal of UniModal, a fictional implementation of a hypothetical transport mode, as a merge and redirect. Fresh warred over this and re-created the content as soon as he was able to. Compare Fresh's original with the current version. User:Stephen B Streater may be able to give you a less jaundiced view. Guy 16:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Dictionaries?

Howdy - I saw your commentary over at the Talk:Ménage à trois page. May I ask which dictionaries you use, and what you think of them. I've been looking for a more modern dictionary than those I already have, but haven't been very impressed with the few I've had a chance to review at length. Thanks. --Badger151 21:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I find Merriam-Webster's Collegiate is very good for US usage, and for British usage I have always preferred the Oxford (Concise generally). Guy 21:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks --Badger151 21:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I ask here so as not to stir things up on the Talk page...

regarding MaT. My experience has been to use MaT as indicative of a threesome, but I'll admit that it's not a phrase that I use often. In your experience (as a speaker of English) would MaT describe something similar to a marraige between three people (and I'm including not just a sexual life (which may not be present at all in some marraiges) but also the shared resources and interdependency, emotional attachements, sense of unity, etc)? Do I have that right?--Badger151 22:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Unaccredited med school issues

See the Talk:American Global University School of Medicine, for anon's issues. Arbusto 00:25, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/MONGO

This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.

PrivateEditor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)and Rootology (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are banned indefinitely from Misplaced Pages. No action is taken against MONGO for any excessive zeal he has displayed. Links to Encyclopædia Dramatica may be removed wherever found on Misplaced Pages as may material imported from it. Users who insert links to Encyclopædia Dramatica or who copy material from it here may be blocked for an appropriate period of time. Care should be taken to warn naive users before blocking. Strong penalties may be applied to those linking to or importing material which harasses other users.

For the Arbitration Committee. Arbitration Committee Clerk, FloNight 02:39, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

"I absolutely agree that Jaskaramdeep is an editor of an incredibly trying kind"

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but antagonizing someone in this way, in a place he's likely never to find it, is violating WP Civil, no?. Perhaps if you had actually read the page and saw that I provided links to ALL of the statements Muero said were POV, you would change your mind. (also, not every editor agreed with Muero - he has a history of "exaggerating" the truth. Several said there needed to be a balance between his dry version and my overly congratulatory version). Jaskaramdeep 06:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You could always try being less... trying. If you want to write a fanblog, please try myspace. Guy 08:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

What does it mean to be "trying"? Is it consistantly engaging yourself in altercations by promoting yourself to the status of "Wikicop"; showing those who you deem lesser than youself that they are, infact, lesser than yourself? Or is it minding your own business, sincerely attempting to contribute to Misplaced Pages, and getting upset when the self-proclaimed Wikicop deletes 3/4 of your article, citing POV, when you can (and have several times) provided links that show that the removed substance was not POV? Perhaps this time, before responding and accusing me of writing a fanblog, you should read the talk page to see my responses to his accusations of POV. Jaskaramdeep 17:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

It means trying the patience of other editors. Especially by promoting an agenda. And actually some of us are Wikicops. Plus, if you notice, I suggested a dispute resolution process as an alternative to edit warring, raise here by someone else after I told him to stop edit warring. You were, however, unintentionally correct in your edit summary: there was no NPOV in your edit. Guy 18:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Now I'm confused. What agenda am I promoting? A thorough Ales Hemsky page. What agenda is Muero, a Detroit Red Wings fan, promoting? Removing all positive information possible from the page of the player who scored two goals late in the third period of Game 6 which knocked the Wings out of the first round of the playoffs. I'm sorry, but if anyone has a hidden agenda, it is Muero. Jaskaramdeep 21:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

"THIS IS HEMSKY'S WORLD; we just live here" Guy 21:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

As I already said, my agenda (if any), is a thorough Ales Hemsky page. You said that the material I re-added (which was subseqently removed) was not POV, so I don't see how my being a fan of this player (which your quote shows) is cause for any concern. However, you ignored my concern with Muero's ability to be unbiased in the article. Do you think it's a coincidence that he only started removal of "POV" from this page after the player scored two miraculous goals to break the heart of his team, and send Steve Yzerman into retirement on a sour note in what was supposed to be "Detroit's Year"? Jaskaramdeep 21:19, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

As you also already said, your version was "overly congratulatory". That translates to a violation of one of our core polciies: WP:NPOV. Feel free to learn and move on. Guy 21:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

As I said, some other users referred to my initial version as overly congratulatory. Sometimes I wonder about the point of discussing issues with people who try and twist the truth to their advantage. If being "trying" is due to being too rational, then I guess I'm going to have to live with that. You still haven't addressed my concern with Muero Jaskaramdeep 21:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

And other edits were, similarly, excessively congratulatory. Plus, as noted above, I was actually admonoshing someone else entirely. Off you go, now, and don't do it again. Guy 21:41, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

lol, off I go indeed. Thank you, though. And not just for the entertaning dodging of my valid concern with Muero. It is through your completely irrelivant responses, and lack of any accuracy whatsoever regarding my comments that I have decided that some people on this site are just, for lack of a better term, dense. I have chosen to ignore such people in the future. Peace out Jaskaramdeep 21:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Translation: you refuse to acknowledge any fault whatsoever and will go on your way secure in the kowledge that it is everybody else who is wrong. In other words, a garden variety tendentious editor. Why ask, I wonder, if you're not going to listen to the answer? Guy 22:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You just keep digging youself into a deeper and deeper hole, man, This is exactly what I am referring to when I say that you lack any accuracy whatsoever concerning my comments. Twice I asked you to read the talk page. Twice. Perhaps if you did, you would have stumbled across this quote from me: "As I've already said, looking back, lots of the stuff I originally wrote was POV, and should have been removed. But lots wasn't, and still hasn't been restored, even though I've provided links". If this doesn't prove that you're unwilling to look at the facts, nothing will. Jaskaramdeep 22:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

So you say. Me, I tend to the view that you may not be the person best qualified to judge the quality of your own work. Further discussion of this particular issue should be directed here. Guy 22:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that's the sound of a checkmate. Thanks for this. It feels good to know that when I don't get angry at the other party so that they can bring up WP Civil to end the discussion, the rational basis of my argument will win out. This was productive! Jaskaramdeep 22:25, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I am certainly open to that possibility, as son as you state this supposed rational basis I can make an informed judgemnt. Guy 22:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Fortuna saga

• Fortuna Saga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Recently, you deleted the Fortuna Saga Misplaced Pages page. I belive it should be undeleted, and urge you to check out the deletion review about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miles C. (talk • contribs) This template must be substituted.

• No deletion review exists. If you want to start one, do be sure to bring evidence of this being the principal subject of multiple non-trivial articles in reliable secondary sources independent of the subject, also include those references which allow us to verify the neutrality of the article and establish its objective significance as rated by independent authorities. Note that blogs and edit-yourself sites are not acceptable sources. Guy 10:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Guy, the deletion review now exists at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2006 October 20#Fortuna Saga. As you already know, over at DRV we like to get comments from the deleting admin. GRBerry 14:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Fortuna Saga

I don't mean to be rude, but is there a reason why you deleted the Fortuna Saga page? People can search nearly anything on wikipedia, but now they'll never find the Fortuna Saga. Just wondering the logic behind that decision.

If you want to find Fortuna Saga then Google is your friend. I remain unconvinced that anyone will be loking for it here, mind, since there are zero cited sources in the article. The answer to your question is at DRV right now, see above. Guy 21:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank You

For offering your opinion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lori Klausutis (third nomination). The article was deleted. "The quality of mercy is not strain'd . . . It is enthroned in the hearts of kings, It is an attribute to God himself; And earthly power doth then show likest God's, When mercy seasons justice." ~ Wm. Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, Act IV Scene 1. Morton devonshire 22:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

User:ParadoxTom

Regarding the warning you issued this user: can I suggest more caution? I have not observed any disruption of the Jews for Jesus article. He was in a rather nast edit war, but the other party was as reposnsible as he was. Feel free to contact me for more information. DJ Clayworth 00:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. 06:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)