Revision as of 16:44, 23 May 2018 editMakeandtoss (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions31,319 edits →Statement by Makeandtoss← Previous edit | Revision as of 18:43, 23 May 2018 edit undoMapSGV (talk | contribs)405 editsNo edit summaryTags: Mobile edit Mobile web editNext edit → | ||
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*No. As Rick says, this is the way we designed them to work. ] ] 16:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC) | *No. As Rick says, this is the way we designed them to work. ] ] 16:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC) | ||
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{{Q amendment request | |||
|case = India-Pakistan | |||
|decision = | |||
|title = Short title of the arbitration decision (plain text only, no links here please). | |||
<!-- If your request concerns an arbitration case remove the decision and title lines above. If it does not concern a case BOTH fields must be filled in.--> | |||
|clause1 = https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=next&oldid=841350919 | |||
|clause1-request = Removal of topic ban | |||
<!-- | |||
This template accepts up to 5 clauses entered in the same fashion as the above. | |||
IMPORTANT: If you are requesting amendment to only one clause you must remove the unused clause and clause-request parameters from the list or it will break the template. | |||
--> | |||
|admin = no | |||
|party2 = GoldenRing | |||
|P2 admin = yes | |||
|party3 = Username | |||
|P3 admin = yes or no <!--Is party 3 an admin?--> | |||
<!-- | |||
**To check if a user is an admin:** go to ] and enter their username, the user groups the editor is on will appear after their username. | |||
This template accepts up to 7 parties entered in the same fashion as the above. If you need to include more parties please add them manually after you click the save button and submit. | |||
IMPORTANT: If your amendment request has only one (yourself) or two (yourself and one other) you must remove the unused party and admin parameters from the list. | |||
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|statement = My topic ban was removed by Arbcom from India, Pakistan and Afghanistan on 7 April for appropriate reasons. Since that Arbcom action, I have made barely a couple of edits in relation to these subjects, and my last edit to this subject is from 11 April, which helped gaining consensus. | |||
Even if they banned me only for editing the subject, it is still a frivolous ban because WP:ARE clearly says that "'''Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale'''". I also received a malicious threat of "indefinite block, without further warning" which is totally baseless. Do someone really sanction people based on personal assumption or thoughtless predictions? Or I am worse than a vandal now? | |||
I was inactive for over 12 days from Misplaced Pages and last time I edited an article about the subject in question was about 33 days. I was not even notified in the TLDR report or my talk page. No evidence had been posted that why I have to be topic banned. My name was being blindly endorsed my name on proposed list of topic banned users. ] is too dysfunctional because it allows admins to abuse tools or there is a serious problem with the tradition of handling these issues. This is very concerning since this has happened for another time and this time it was absolutely worse than it was before. — ] (]) 18:43, 23 May 2018 (UTC) | |||
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Revision as of 18:43, 23 May 2018
Shortcut Arbitration Committee proceedings- recent changes
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Open casesCase name | Links | Evidence due | Prop. Dec. due |
---|---|---|---|
Palestine-Israel articles 5 | (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) | 21 Dec 2024 | 11 Jan 2025 |
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Clarification and Amendment requestsRequest name | Motions | Case | Posted |
---|---|---|---|
Clarification request: The Troubles | none | (orig. case) | 15 May 2018 |
Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 3 | none | (orig. case) | 23 May 2018 |
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Clarification request: The Troubles
Initiated by Swarm at 00:39, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
- Swarm (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (initiator)
Statement by Swarm
Greetings. So, WP:TROUBLES#Guide to enforcement contains a 2011 provision that places all pages in the topic area under a blanket 1RR page restriction that is specifically enforceable without warning, provided {{Troubles restriction}} has been placed on the talk page. This directly contradicts the current awareness criteria for enforcing page restrictions, and it's unclear to me whether that provision is exempt from, or has been superseded by, the modern awareness criteria that were implemented in 2014 and 2018. In spite of the contradiction with standard practice, it continues to be advertised as an active sanction on many articles, which is apparently validated on the case page. However, there's no apparent record, anywhere, of an intentional exemption to ArbCom's now-standardized procedure regarding awareness. It also claims to derive its authority, at least in part, from a community decision, but there is no record of such a restriction at WP:GS or on the case page, so it's unclear as to whether the "no warning" provision is actually the will of the community. Thanks in advance.
Statement by T. Canens
The 1RR restriction originated from an AE discussion in 2008 and was clarified in an ANI discussion in 2009. It's not clear whether the 2011 motion superseding "all extant remedies" actually superseded these restrictions, since these aren't actually arbcom remedies, but looking at the history of User:Coren/draft this appears to be the intent.
Additionally, it is not clear whether and how the later changes to the DS system impact a page restriction imposed in 2011 given the provisions in WP:AC/DS#Continuity (Nothing in this current version of the discretionary sanctions process constitutes grounds for appeal of a remedy or restriction imposed under prior versions of it.
and All sanctions and restrictions imposed under earlier versions of this process remain in force.
). T. Canens (talk) 08:51, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
The Troubles: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
- By its own terms, the motion applies only to page restrictions placed as discretionary sanctions and does not apply to restrictions directly imposed by the Committee, such as 1RR from The Troubles or the General Prohibition from PIA3. As far as I remember, comments from arbitrators from the original motion supported that interpretation. Similar interpretation at the ACN talk thread. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 01:46, 15 May 2018 (UTC) I'm not recusing because this is a procedural clarification request per Jan 2018 precedent (mailing list login required). Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 01:49, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, I misread this. Community consensus was apparently here: permalink. Looks like it was at AE, though, so it probably doesn't really count as a community-imposed sanction. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 02:01, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- It also appears that if the community did impose 1RR, it may have been rescinded by ArbCom in this motion, which superseded "All extant remedies of The Troubles" with the intention of "Clarity and complying with general expectations", as arbitrator David Fuchs said. In any event, this ends up beyond the clerks' pay grade in interpreting ArbCom decisions. Hope the links help. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 02:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
The Troubles: Arbitrator views and discussion
- The general 1RR in the area was placed as a discretionary sanction by an administrator, so it is subject to the awareness criteria while enforcing it. This includes the requirements for page restrictions, as individual administrators cannot supersede the awareness requirements set by the Committee. (They could theoretically make them more stringent, but not less.) ~ Rob13 16:21, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: Do you find the answer here clear? If so, I'll have a clerk archive this. If not, I'll prod additional arbitrators for comment, but I strongly suspect it will be more of the same ("Yes, notifications should be made").
- @Euryalus: The 1RR without warning was placed as a discretionary sanction, not by the Committee. Does that change things for you? Are you suggesting discretionary sanctions placed before our change of awareness criteria go by a different set of rules? If so, that has major implications for page restrictions, etc. ~ Rob13 03:46, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
- The concept of giving a warning, before blocking or sanctioning an editor for innocently violating a DS restriction, originated in a comment I made in a 2008 case that it would be unfair to penalize an editor for doing something that is generally allowed, but isn't allowed on a page covered by DS. The intent was certainly not that this observation evolve into a complicated rule-set of "awareness criteria," in parallel with the rules-creep that continues to take place all over the wiki (as observed in this essay by a community-elected WMF trustee). The importance of reasonable warnings is reinforced when we periodically get AE or ARCA appeals from editors who are blocked or topic-banned for a DS breach and respond in good faith along the lines of "I didn't know there was any such rule" or "what the heck are you talking about?" To me, "warn before sanctioning if it isn't clear the editor knew (or clearly should have known) he or she was violating a restriction or acting improperly" remains a basic precept of wiki proportionality, fairness, and common sense. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:10, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
- Late to the party, but for what it's worth I agree with NYB. Arb-related sanctions are a topic with so much rules creep that I understand why this question was asked, and yet I also want to think we as a community can manage to warn people before sanctioning them even if WP:OMGWTFBBQ#RTFM paragraph 3 line 2 says you don't technically have to. Opabinia regalis (talk) 07:39, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
- The DS warning system is a poor attempt to codify what should be commonsense. Prefer the approach outlined by NYB, where we don't actually mandate a slew of warnings and alerts before doing anything, but nonetheless have the courtesy to let people know if they've done the wrong thing before applying sanctions. FWIW, I reckon the without-warning-1RR technically still stands despite the later implementation of other processes, but its existence suggests we should again go through these older cases and review the surviving sanctions to see if they're worth updating or even keeping at all. -- Euryalus (talk) 03:43, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 3
Initiated by Makeandtoss at 16:09, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
- Case or decision affected
- Palestine-Israel articles 3 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
- Clauses to which an amendment is requested
- "All Arab–Israeli conflict-related pages, broadly interpreted, are subject to discretionary sanctions: Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial notification."
- List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
- Makeandtoss (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
- Information about amendment request
- "All Arab–Israeli conflict-related pages, broadly interpreted, are subject to discretionary sanctions: Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial notification."
- Add:"An administrator may only add the protection template to the article relating to this case after having clearly demonstrated how the article is likely to witness edit-warring." or .."after having gotten a consensus from users and other admins"
Statement by Makeandtoss
Jordan for example, a high-level article with around 6,000 daily views, is held under the Arab-Israeli conflict arbitration template. No IPs or new accounts are allowed to edit the article, and a minor edit-war over content that may not even be related to the conflict will trigger harsh discretionary sanctions. 5 out of 95 paragraphs in the article discuss the Arab-Israeli conflict, and this somehow makes it eligible for the harsh sanctions. Another suggestion would be to make two sanction templates, the existing one for directly related articles to the conflict, and another 'diluted' form that allows IPs and new accounts to edit but restricts reverts to 2 and has less harsh sanctions. Makeandtoss (talk) 16:09, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
- Are they working as they are supposed to? Are the templates added to all the articles remotely relevant to the conflict, or do they only apply on some? Can't see any templates on US, EU, UN, UNSC, UK, Henry Kissinger, Gamal Abdul Nasser, Harry S. Truman? They all can be "related" to the conflict. Makeandtoss (talk) 16:44, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
Palestine-Israel articles 3: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
Palestine-Israel articles 3: Arbitrator views and discussion
- No. That’s not how discretionary sanctions work. They are interpreted broadly for a reason. I will also note you’re actually asking us to also modify several other remedies related to this topic area (1RR and ECP), not just the discretionary sanctions. ~ Rob13 16:29, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
- Absolutely not. The sanctions are working exactly as they are designed to do so. RickinBaltimore (talk) 16:35, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
- No. As Rick says, this is the way we designed them to work. Doug Weller talk 16:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
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