Talk:Prussian Blue (duo): Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 17:14, 7 February 2019 editZI Jony (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers51,120 edits OneClickArchiver archived Prussians are Lithuanians to Talk:Prussian Blue/Archive 1 ← Previous edit		Revision as of 17:14, 7 February 2019 edit undoZI Jony (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers51,120 edits OneClickArchiver archived I am glad they are not White Nationalists any more to Talk:Prussian Blue/Archive 1 Next edit →
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	== I am glad they are not White Nationalists any more ==

	Listen, I am glad these girls have renounced to their previous racist, hate speech ideologies. No one has the right to discriminate against a different race or skin color. That simply doesn't deserve any discussion. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 16:41, 24 February 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	What on earth has your personal preference got to do with a factual article??? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 09:59, 18 December 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	They would have been great porn stars too.] (]) 09:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

	== Reference #7 - Holocaust denial Error ==		== Reference #7 - Holocaust denial Error ==

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Reference #7 - Holocaust denial Error

I just checked the article to see what it states about their alleged Holocaust denial. The reference appears to the second to last paragraph of the article; they don't explicitly deny the Holocaust, and seem to implicitly accept it, but in either case, it is too vague for this article to credibly make a statement either way without being unfair to the girls. I recommend alteration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.142.48.96 (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

RfC

BAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:11, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Removing mention of "ideas."

"Despite this, they still made statements skeptical of elements of the Holocaust."

This is speculation and should be removed from the article. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be an Encyclopedia-like documentation of things, not a forum to make off-collar statements regarding what this or that individual may have said that raises doubt in the minds of a writer. The entire article is somewhat messed up, to be franc, the girls were so young when their act began it was obviously based on something they'd been raised to believe.

This Misplaced Pages article is like a bulls eye with a big black target on their lives, and instead of documenting a time of their lives that they both feel is no longer relevant, it continues to paint them in this light or another. Even the "legitimate" edits and documentation in regards to this or that is in bad taste. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be "the 💕 that anyone can edit," but it seems like this page (among others) is more used by certain personal interests with their own agendas and there is too much bias. -70.66.90.57 (talk) 15:44, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

People love to judge these young girls and make them societal outcasts for life over their forced upbringing. Doesn't matter now that they have developed enough cognitively to think for themselves and reject their parents views that were forced upon them. They're victim blamers. JanderVK (talk) 18:05, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

2012 article

Found this article which updates the lives of the twins and how (apparently) marijuana saved them from their racist ways. Maybe someone can find something appropriate to add to the article. Phiwum (talk) 03:09, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

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Requested move 22 January 2019

The request to rename this article to Prussian Blue (duo) has been carried out.

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Prussian Blue → Prussian Blue (duo) – Per the edit summary of the lone edit currently located at Prussian Blue (duo), this page was moved due to "unnecessary disambiguation". Per the content currently at Prussian blue (disambiguation), that is no longer true. For one, Prussian Blue (album) now exists. In addition, external sources name the color Prussian blue with a capital "B" ("Prussian Blue"). Also, the ratio of pageviews between Prussian Blue versus Prussian blue is about 1:2 average, meaning that there is a good chance that some readers may be looking for the color by searching the term with a capital "B", and then end up arriving at Prussian Blue, the musical duo's article, as a WP:SURPRISE. For these reasons, I think after almost a decade, it is time to move this page back to Prussian Blue (duo); "(duo)" seems to be a disambiguator with precedence for such articles about 2-person musical groups. In addition, I think Prussian Blue should be redirected to Prussian blue (disambiguation) since I do not believe there is a strong enough case per WP:DIFFCAPS to have the ambiguous title with a capitalized "B" target the color, but do not oppose retargeting Prussian Blue to Prussian blue if consensus swings that way. Steel1943 (talk) 18:52, 22 January 2019 (UTC)--Relisted. –Ammarpad (talk) 16:38, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Oppose per WP:PRECISE. Prussian Blue (album) gets about 3 hits per day, compared to 374 for Prussian Blue , so that doesn't change anything from the previous RM as far as WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The different capitalization means there is no title conflict with Prussian blue. There may be some readers who land here who want the color, but there's a hatnote in place to take care of that minority. There's no need to divert those who want the group's article to somewhere they don't want to be. Station1 (talk) 22:11, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- "...The different capitalization means there is no title conflict with Prussian blue..." That's just untrue since Prussian Blue is neither the title of the color's article, nor a redirect to the article for the color. And how were you able to determine the "...minority..." that look up the capitalized term expecting to find the color? I know I don't have any such tool to do that, and the surprise factor for those looking up the color by a capital "B" arriving at an article about a neo-Nazi band has to be the almost strongest example of a WP:SURPRISE I could ever imagine that cannot be resolved by simply a link in a hatnote. Steel1943 (talk) 22:35, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
  - If there were two articles, each of whose best title would be "Prussian Blue", there would be a title conflict and we would have to disambiguate at least one of those two titles. But if the best title for the color is "Prussian blue", then there is no title conflict and disambiguation can be handled by the less intrusive means of a hatnote. Experiments with hatnotes on other articles have shown that they are used very roughly 2%-6% of the time. If someone is taking the trouble to capitalize the B in the search box, it seems to me more likely that they are looking for the band than the color, since the band always uses a capital B but the color only sometimes. Coupled with the fact that at a glance there appears to be only one out of 2-300 incoming wikilinks that intends the color, it seems to me very likely that most people landing here are where they want to be. If 5 or 10 people a day land here by mistake and are surprised, I don't know why that wouldn't be resolved by the hatnote. Station1 (talk) 23:05, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
    - One of the reasons that Prussian Blue, the link, is present on so many articles is due to being present on the navigation template {{Neo-Nazism}}, which is transcluded on 183 articles, which is probably why the "only one out of 2-300 incoming wikilinks..." is the way that it is, and actually doesn't illustrate how popular links to Prussian Blue are, but rather is just states that there are at least 183 articles about Neo-Nazism on Misplaced Pages. Steel1943 (talk) 01:44, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
      - Completely true, but my point was that no one is landing on this article because of bad incoming wikilinks. And since virtually no one is landing here by mistake through Google, about the only way someone who really wants the color could land here and be surprised is to type "Prussian Blue" with a capital B in the search box, ignore "Prussian blue" in the dropdown, and enter. Therefore that number must be a small minority (you asked how I determined that). Station1 (talk) 07:04, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
        @Station1: Another question just struck me: How does WP:PRECISE apply to capitalization differences? I'm a bit of a WP:PRECISE fanatic myself given that I do some WP:BOLD moves from titles with a disambiguator to titles without a disambiguator (or vice versa) from time-to-time. I'd even go to the extreme to say that citing WP:PRECISE to compare differences in capitalization (such as here) is erroneous since WP:PRECISE primarily deals with parenthetical disambiguation in titles (and the related guideline WP:NATURAL also does to some extent.) Claiming primary topics based on capitalization differences in letters seems to be the purpose of WP:DIFFCAPS, not WP:PRECISE. Steel1943 (talk) 17:54, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
        PRECISE includes DIFFCAPS and NATURAL, which are subsections of that same section of the policy at WP:AT, which should ideally be considered as a whole. PRECISE goes to the top of the section which says article titles should be precise but no more precise than necessary. But of course the rest of that section (NATURAL, DIFFCAPS and CONCISE) also applies. As you say, PRECISE does deal with parenthetical disambiguation, which is exactly what you're proposing. Under PRECISE (including NATURAL, DIFFCAPS and CONCISE), parenthetical disambiguation is not indicated in this case, imo, because the current title is precise (it's the actual name of the topic), natural (adding a parenthetical qualifier would make the title artificial), has different capitalization than another topic's title (meaning disambiguating the title is not a technical requirement, i.e. there's no title conflict), and is more concise than the proposed change. Station1 (talk) 23:45, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
      - I don't think the musical duo should even be in that navbox. A musical group is not the same as a political group, even if their music is political. 62.165.227.102 (talk) 09:32, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Comment I went through all the links and found only three incorrect uses, two meaning Prussian blue and one meaning Prussian Blue (album). I've fixed themn. About thirty articles actually link to the band including: directly, via redirects, list articles, name articles; excluding: disambiguation pages, articles with mentions only in hatnotes or navboxes, the redirects themselves. 62.165.227.102 (talk) 10:36, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking into that! (I would have just used the "thank" option, but that's not available for anonymous editors.) Steel1943 (talk) 12:54, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Comment on 23 January I removed the band from "Groups" section of the Neo-Nazism navbox, with the ES "this is a former musical duo with a neo-nazi oeuvre, not an organised political group". That was a good-faith bold edit which has not been reverted, but a side-effect is that there are currently only 14 direct links from main space, which I list in the box below:

Current direct links in main space to "Prussian Blue"
~~Russian Blue~~ hatnote changed to link to Prussian blue (disambiguation) PB disambiguation page Stand Up disambiguation page Prussian blue (disambiguation) disambiguation page List of show business families National Vanguard (American organization) 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America MacKenzie Mauzy Dark Walker Louis and the Nazis Nazi Pop Twins Creativity (religion) ~~Craig Cobb~~ changed to April Gaede per MOS:NOPIPE White Noise: A Cautionary Musical

Current direct links in main space to "Prussian Blue"

~~Russian Blue~~ hatnote changed to link to Prussian blue (disambiguation)
PB disambiguation page
Stand Up disambiguation page
Prussian blue (disambiguation) disambiguation page
List of show business families
National Vanguard (American organization)
100 People Who Are Screwing Up America
MacKenzie Mauzy
Dark Walker
Louis and the Nazis
Nazi Pop Twins
Creativity (religion)
~~Craig Cobb~~ changed to April Gaede per MOS:NOPIPE
White Noise: A Cautionary Musical

(same editor as 62.125.227.102, different IP) 94.21.204.175 (talk) 08:16, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Support. The pigment has more long-term significance than the disbanded band. I think the disambiguation page is a marginally better target than "Prussian blue", but either is fine by me. 94.21.204.175 (talk) 08:36, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Support. The DIFFCAPS argument fails because there's no evidence that the different capitalisation does disambiguate between the duo and the chemical. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:18, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Support per nom - no primary topic for the capitalized "Prussian Blue". Paintspot Infez (talk) 16:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

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