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Revision as of 02:19, 11 January 2020 edit50.111.26.55 (talk) →Japanese Naming Change← Previous edit Revision as of 08:33, 13 January 2020 edit undoFuntoedit1212 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,520 editsNo edit summaryNext edit →
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As of 01/01/2020, the Japanese government now issued a new decree so that official names will be written with last name first in the Latin alphabet. In line with this, should the article be moved to Abe Shinzo? https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/01/02/why-japanese-names-have-flipped?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/banyanwhyjapanesenameshaveflippedasia <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:58, 4 January 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> As of 01/01/2020, the Japanese government now issued a new decree so that official names will be written with last name first in the Latin alphabet. In line with this, should the article be moved to Abe Shinzo? https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/01/02/why-japanese-names-have-flipped?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/banyanwhyjapanesenameshaveflippedasia <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:58, 4 January 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Read back ^ - already discussed.] (]) 02:19, 11 January 2020 (UTC) :Read back ^ - already discussed.] (]) 02:19, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
== Requested move 13 January 2020 ==

{{requested move/dated|Shinzo Abe}}

] → {{no redirect|Shinzo Abe}} – It interested me to see that the macron diacritic on ]'s name was removed from the title of his Misplaced Pages article a few years ago during a page move discussion. The main argument used was ]. If the arguments of that previous discussion hold true, shouldn't this article also be moved on the same grounds? Most recent books and media in English don't use the macron, it seems. I've never once seen an article in the Japan Times or South China Morning Post that spells Shinzo Abe's name with the macron attached.] (]) 08:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 08:33, 13 January 2020

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Media mentionThis page has been mentioned by a media organization:
  • James Griffiths (2019-05-21). "Japan wants you to say its leader's name correctly: Abe Shinzo". CNN. Archived from the original on 2019-05-24. Retrieved 2019-05-28. Misplaced Pages's Manual of Style page for Japanese names states that articles should "use the form personally or professionally used by the person, if available in the English/Latin alphabet."

    Abe's entry on the online encyclopedia is currently topped by the notification: "It has been requested that the title of this article be changed to Abe Shinzo." On the discussion page, where volunteer editors debate proposed edits and additions to Misplaced Pages entries, the proposer of the change said it is in accordance with the government's announcement.

    "Misplaced Pages does not obey government requests. We have our own style guide ... and we use English forms of names," another user wrote. "All Japanese biographies place the given name before the family name, whereas Chinese ones place the family name first. If we change this for Abe-san, then we would have to change all other articles about Japanese people. This may happen, but should be debated elsewhere than on a single biography page."

    That user added, however, that "if most sources start referring to Abe-san as 'Abe Shinzo,' then Misplaced Pages will follow suit. For now, it's too early to tell if this new directive will take hold."
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Updates

can somebody update the Abe Cabinet Approval Ratings since 2012. thanks. Torygreen84 (talk) 04:08, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Japan's youngest post–World War II prime minister and the first born after the war.

Yoshihiko Noda is younger than Shinzō Abe and he was born after the war too. --Мурад 97 (talk) 16:59, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

The sentence is referring to his first term in 2006: "...elected by a special session of the National Diet on 26 September 2006. He was then Japan's youngest post-World War II prime minister and the first born after the war." - M0rphzone (talk) 02:43, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Article Section Violates Neutral_point_of_view

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Posted by POV-pusher. No reason to keep this open. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:20, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Section "Politics and philosophy" is in violation of Misplaced Pages policy ] and should be flagged. LoveJapanChika (talk) 03:26, 9 June 2014 (UTC)LoveJapanChika

How is it in violation of the NPoV policy? -- Hoary (talk) 07:39, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
It's not. This guy is a troll. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:20, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How can I view this discussion that took place? I don't want to modify it, just read it. Thanks. --Westwind273 (talk) 14:22, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Weird transcription/translation?

A lot of the quotes read as though they're poorly transcribed or translated, but since I'm not sure if the quotes were first given in English or Japanese originally (for, say, the benefit of a US audience at some hypothetical diplomatic event) so the strange phrasing could be the article writer or just representing an ESL speaker accurately.

On the other hand, a specific example that probably needs correction is in the "Politics and Philosophy" section regarding the comfort women controversy: "Abe said "It was a political terrorism by Asahi Shimbun and it was tremendously clear that they had intention to inhume me and Mr. Nakagawa politically, and it is also clear that it was complete fabrication."" Perhaps the author means impugn rather than inhume? They sound the same, but impugn means "to insult or belittle" and inhume means "to bury." Nevertheless I get skittish about altering quotes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.117.206 (talk) 13:11, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

fukushima radiation contamination of whole pacific ocean

with PM abe visit to USA past few days and the widely shown in USA TV ad by his admin of his wife indicating her interest in radiation effections of nuc bombs, there should be added esp a section about the effects of fukushima (power plant) radioactive contamination of entire pacific ocean, now touted to have killed that entire ecosystem - ref http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fukushima+radiation+contamination+in+pacific+ocean&view=detailv2&&&id=2429DA66F8E4EF2918E4258B8E6C89CBBB53F270&selectedIndex=5&ccid=zNSLfAKK&simid=608029136140435940&thid=JN.cHTidzl74AkQJkoR1GU2Jw&ajaxhist=0 ... ! 47.18.43.166 (talk) 20:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)Adm Yamamoto Akihito jr

IP 183.90.36.105

Although I don't like Shinzō Abe, but who go and did the vandalized at Shinzō Abe's article diffs record on 24 June 2015??? There was a unknown person did the vandalizing from my shared IP range in Singapore on that day. SA 13 Bro (talk) 22:38, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

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context of snap elections/ 2017 UN General Assembly/ 2017 Typhoon 21

I disagree with the removal and selective sourcing of the contributions I just made. Palestinian reconciliation announcement in the media coincided with Abe`s decision to dissolve parliament; that was in the days before the UN general assembly in NYC, a destination of both Abe and a Palestinian delegation. The TYPHOON/HURRICANE damage was made worse by the massmedia spindoctors hyping Korea (ironically on the pretext that US Military Occupation is a matter of Public Safety), simultaneously NEGLECTING media coverage of THE LARGEST HURRICANE THIS YEAR! FFS, they are still pulling bodies from rivers, the trains are not running properly, and each and every campaigner holding a sign could have been using the stick to unclog the street drains, averting disaster. Have a lovely day. 9:41AM, 23rd October 126.209.23.138 (talk) 00:42, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

lin

多少年没见面。我一直不相信你给我文件。当我看文件和家人的照片是这是真。我一直不相信。我现在觉得很开心。希望尽快与你们会面.JIANXIONG LIN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.152.98 (talk) 13:56, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Lead section

The lead section is weirdly... bare, to say the least, for one of the most important leaders on Earth. It should look like the lead section of, say, Modi's article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asmithca (talk • contribs) 05:16, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

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Poorly sourced introduction

This sentence in the introduction is highly problematic: "He is a member of the revisionist Nippon Kaigi and holds revisionist views on Japanese history,including denying the role of government coercion in the recruitment of comfort women during World War II, a position which has created tension with neighboring South Korea." Source # 6 is an extreme left-wing piece written by the long-term head of the Japanese Communist Party, whose membership percentage in the Diet is in the single digits, certainly not a mainstream view. I propose deleting "including denying the role of government coercion in the recruitment of comfort women during World War II" until it is properly sourced. If there is no objection, I will be bold and delete this phrase. --Westwind273 (talk) 05:11, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

First, "Source #6" was in fact citing a right-wing individual, Shinzō Abe himself, who was quoted in the publication. However it was a poor source, as Shinzō Abe's only indirectly addressed his original statement.
Second, the lead does not require any sourcing at all. The lead is supposed to summarize information that's already in the article. There was indeed proper sourcing the body of the article.
Nonetheless,  Done. I replaced the poor source in the lead, and I added an additional source in the body. Alsee (talk) 21:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Rather than engage in endless bickering, I think I'll just let you live with your guilt of knowing that you are perpetuating a biased introduction. Most of the sources for the introduction are far from mainstream or neutral. --Westwind273 (talk) 03:54, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistent date formats of Japanese articles

This article uses dd/mm/yyyy whereas other articles on Japanese people (politicians) use mm/dd/yyyy, which one should it be?. 78.108.56.35 (talk) 19:24, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 21 May 2019

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. There is a clear absence of consensus for this move at this time, and closer to a consensus against it. bd2412 T 01:58, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Shinzō Abe → Abe Shinzō – This is in conformance with a request by the Japanese government to refer to him as Abe Shinzō, according to the East Asian naming custom. Source: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190521/p2a/00m/0na/016000c 黄雨伞 (talk) 20:56, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Oppose – Misplaced Pages does not obey government requests. We have our own style guide at WP:MOS, and we use English forms of names. All Japanese biographies place the given name before the family name, whereas Chinese ones place the family name first. If we change this for Abe-san, then we would have to change all other articles about Japanese people. This may happen, but should be debated elsewhere than on a single biography page. — JFG 21:16, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    I must add that if most sources start referring to Abe-san as "Abe Shinzō", then Misplaced Pages will follow suit. For now, it's too early to tell if this new directive will take hold. — JFG 21:19, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    Shouldn't WP:SPNC apply here? He did not personally make a statement, but we can assume his foreign minister speaks for him. 黄雨伞 (talk) 21:25, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    Maybe. In the meantime I also noticed that our manual of style allows both forms, see WP:JTITLE. I still think it's too soon to change, but I wouldn't be opposed in the future, again if English-language sources pick up this style. Most Chinese and Korean names are now displayed in Asian order, so it's absolutely possible that Japanese names will follow, and Abe-san can play a great role to set the trend. — JFG 21:28, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
    It seems like Chinese names had always been surname first anyway; Sun Yat-sen's signature was surname first. I am not sure about Korean names. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:24, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose move for lack of sources. Given-name first is the "default" for modern-day Japanese people, and very few sources use family-name first for Abe. O.N.R.  07:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This is far and away his commonest name in English-language sources. If that changes then we can revisit this. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:06, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now - This should only change if/when most English-language sources follow suit. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:06, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Support move per WP:SPNC. Since it's the way Japanese are named, I find very unlikely he will back down from this position, after making a request to the entire world for it. As such, I don't think it's necessary to wait for crystalize. I think changing all the Japanese articles to this format would not be proper unless discussed at other forums. But, I support it in this particular article. ZackTheJack (talk) 15:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Strong Support - Kim Jong-un, Ho Chi Minh, Lee Kuan Yew, Xi Jinping, Moon Jae-in, Tsai Ing-wen. What makes Abe Shinzō any different? It's time the English Misplaced Pages correctly fixes all of the Japanese names as well, not only for Abe Shinzō. Ineedtostopforgetting (talk) 14:21, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
    • @Ineedtostopforgetting: Historically Japanese names were treated differently from Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese names, and there are reliable sources discussing this. See Japanese_name#Japanese_names_in_English_and_other_Western_languages. Here is a quote from one of the sources I used for the section:
      • "However, Japanese almost invariably give their names in the Western order when using Western languages. This practice, also universally followed in Western newspapers, magazines and most books, became established in the Meiji period (1868–1912), when Japan was opened up to the West. Confusion often arises because the Chinese and Koreans did not follow the Japanese examples; even in ordinary Western newspapers, Chinese and Korean names are given in the original order, although Chinese and Koreans living and working in the West will usually adopt the Western order."
    • He explains that the exception is in scholarly publications focusing on Japanese/Asian Studies. As an FYI, in English Hungarian names are also reversed in the way Japanese names are.
    • WhisperToMe (talk) 08:38, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that Ineeestostopforegttng changed the name on several infoboxs (including this article) to Japanese naming order when the article title is in Western order. Is that appropriate or should they be changed back if they don’t match the current article title?--64.229.166.98 (talk) 05:25, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
@64.229.166.98: It should be changed back until this discussion is over. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:38, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Please, no edit warring over the order in the meantime. The status quo ante stands, for now. El_C 02:38, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

  • That request appears to be talking about all Japanese names, not just this one. Misplaced Pages should wait and see what reliable sources do first. —Xezbeth (talk) 07:39, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • I suggest this should be discussed at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles.--Ipigott (talk) 07:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - we should only change this if reliable sources start doing so, per WP:COMMONNAME. The Japanese government's edict may affect what RS do going forward, but is no in itself a reason to move.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:52, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now as his common name in English language sources is still Shinzō Abe. In time this may change, and if/when that does happen, another RM could be started. But right now it's not the common name used. Which is the same reason we use Kiev not Kyiv, as it's the common English language translation in reliable sources. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:31, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose for being too soon - wait until reliable sources flip the order. We have a precedent in Yoko Taro (surname first) because sources did flip the order for his name in particular, while others are cited in sources with their given names first (and many sources cite Yoko Taro's name with his surname first but all of his colleagues with their given names first, even in the same body of running text, e.g. and ) Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 14:23, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Support - This is aligned with the East Asian naming convention in Japan, and also in East Asian nations such as China and Korea, which follow the surname-first convention. Also, the official Japanese gov't has issued a request, and US gov't has followed it in it's official documents.Rwat128 (talk) 01:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose: While opposing this particular proposal for the reasons outlined above, I can't help noticing that we're already somewhat inconsistent in the way we treat Japanese names. Look at Category:Japanese politicians for starters, where we have the majority shown in given name-surname order, but there are many exceptions: Bak Jungyang, Hajime Seki, Iwakura Tomomi, Kabayama Aisuke, Kido Takayoshi, Matsudaira Norikata, Murata Seifu, and on and on. That's just one category. Undoubtedly, some of these are explained by their relative obscurity and the fact that they are known in the anglosphere only in the Japanese order. -- Jack of Oz 09:18, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
    It's not inconsistent. Biographies of people born pre-Meiji Era will almost always be in Eastern name order, and anyone born after will be in Western name order unless they opt to use Eastern per reliable sources. —Xezbeth (talk) 10:45, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
    So, perhaps the new Reiwa era will see the reversal of the Meiji era policy, and Abe-san is the first case. — JFG 09:48, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Support:If the Japanese government decide they prefer to refer to their leader in English the same order as they do in their native language, then such practice must be respected. Even though Meiji have previous adopted a different practice, the Japanese government have already changed its policy. The Japanese government's edict may not be enough in most cases, but this is the case for biography, where the subject's wish must be respected, in this case, it is Abe Shinzo's government that made this decision and hence must be respected.Viztor (talk) 21:30, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
    • For people who feel the need of reliable sources, I here cite WashingtonPost and CNN, also Britannica have already updated their piece.
  • Oppose. Misplaced Pages follows usage in reliable sources, not the directives of any given government–not to mention the problems this would cause regarding titling the articles of people with a more ambiguous or tenuous connection to the country of Japan. The sources given in the preceding comment are on the issue itself, not evidence of common usage. And the CNN article is citing this very discussion, so let's try to stay away from tautological arguments. Dekimasuよ! 12:51, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name ordering

The article is named Shinzo Abe, but his birth name in the infobox is shown as Abe Shinzo. What gives? Lexein (talk) 15:18, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Under discussion above. Feel free to participate. — JFG 18:07, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Anti-Abe Bias

This article reeks of anti-Abe bias throughout. The article seems to be obsessed with Abe's views of history, rather than what he has actually done as prime minister. For example, the entire "Political positions and philosophy" section talks only about historical issues. This is really weird for a Misplaced Pages article. For example, if one were to describe the political positions and philosophy of Ronald Reagan, one would talk about small government and strengthening national defense, not what Reagan thought about what happened during WWII. Also, this article is obsessed with Abe's purported "nationalism" and the nature of his association with Nippon Kaigi. Note that the Encyclopedia Britannica does not even contain the word "nationalist" in its entire article about Abe. It refers to Abe as a conservative, which he is. The bias of this article is also deeply ironic. One reason for Abe's longevity is that with the demise of the Japan Socialist Party and the Communist Party on life support, there are relatively few actual policy differences between Abe and his opposition. Perhaps the most prominent recent policy difference is that Abe's party passed a law making it easier for Japanese companies to bring foreign workers into Japan. This was vocally opposed by Abe's (non-nationalist?) opposition. So tell me how that makes Abe a nationalist? All in all, Misplaced Pages really cheapens itself by allowing hack job articles like this. --Westwind273 (talk) 14:14, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

@Westwind273:Tag it and edit it, this is Misplaced Pages. Viztor (talk) 20:16, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Feel free to repeat that comment in every section on this talk page. --Westwind273 (talk) 19:17, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Portrait Update

Hi all, Shinzo Abe's portrait is from 2012, about 7 years ago. Albeit this is his official portrait, should it be updated to a portrait from 2019? Thanks! Chickensarebleepssorryuncle (talk) 02:17, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Grammatical tense

Was the tax implemented in 2017, per the sentence, " . . . when the anticipated tax increase from 8 to 10 percent TAKES PLACE in April 2017."? If so, then it should be changed to "...TOOK PLACE (correct date?)..." If not, then, it should be changed to "...SUPPOSED TO TAKE PLACE in April 2017 (then give event that prevented it)..."

Skaizun (talk) 03:21, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:22, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Capitalization situation

I'm going to assume that if decapitalization is accepted in this article's intro? It'll will likewise be added to the intros of all the other Japanese prime ministers article intros. GoodDay (talk) 21:55, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Japanese Naming Change

As of 01/01/2020, the Japanese government now issued a new decree so that official names will be written with last name first in the Latin alphabet. In line with this, should the article be moved to Abe Shinzo? https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/01/02/why-japanese-names-have-flipped?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/banyanwhyjapanesenameshaveflippedasia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.4.124 (talk) 02:58, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Read back ^ - already discussed.50.111.26.55 (talk) 02:19, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 13 January 2020

The request to rename this article to Shinzo Abe has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Shinzō Abe → Shinzo Abe – It interested me to see that the macron diacritic on Junichiro Koizumi's name was removed from the title of his Misplaced Pages article a few years ago during a page move discussion. The main argument used was WP: COMMONNAME. If the arguments of that previous discussion hold true, shouldn't this article also be moved on the same grounds? Most recent books and media in English don't use the macron, it seems. I've never once seen an article in the Japan Times or South China Morning Post that spells Shinzo Abe's name with the macron attached.Funtoedit1212 (talk) 08:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

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