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Chemistry Project‑class

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Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a salt

IUPAC definition of a salt: "A chemical compound consisting of an assembly of cations and anions." (https://goldbook.iupac.org/terms/view/S05447)

Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a salt.--Smokefoot (talk) 16:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Ok? Is this somehow controversial? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:02, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Since it is dissolved in water and seems not to exist as a pure solid, it is not a salt. In any case it is a strong alkali or base. We can thank Edgar181 in 2006 for the above statement. From the definition it would be not a salt, as it is not a compound. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:31, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

That's rather irrelevant to what salts are, no? See also Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a quaternary ammonium salt generally used as an anisotropic etchant for silicon due to its high silicon etching rate. and Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a solid in the hydrated form. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:21, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if colleagues would allow CuSO4.5H2O (aka blue vitriol) to be called a salt? If so maybe we can call the monohydrate of Me4NOH also a salt. But maybe not, who knows?--Smokefoot (talk) 22:39, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Hydrate of a salt? --Leiem (talk) 17:46, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

IMO, it would not matter whether it's a hydrate or not. At the extreme, NaCl(aq) "salt water", which includes many water molecules wrapped around each cation and each anion, is just as much of a salt as NaCl(s) "table salt." If a salt has one or more waters of hydration in its formula, any working chemist would say that it's still a salt. When I teach this to my students, I say "CuSO4.5H2O is a salt of copper and sulfate which incorporates five waters of hydration." I guess I could be wrong about all that, but I don't think so. KeeYou Flib (talk) 14:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Headbomb, apparently so (among some editors at least). I responded there. They seem to be talking round in circles and escallating personal claims, rather than using WP:RS and remaining WP:CIVIL...not a recipe for improving WP articles. DMacks (talk) 04:11, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Why would it have to be anhydrous for it to be a salt? --Project Osprey (talk) 20:18, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

I was just trying to anticipate any possible objections. Heck, I am surprised we are having this convesation. Maybe you can penetrate the arguments by JonRichfield and his friend here here. --Smokefoot (talk) 20:52, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

... I must confess that I cannot. These discussions trend to drag on. Good luck --Project Osprey (talk) 22:09, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

I was confused by Smokefoot's original statement, whether calling it a salt is supported or opposed. I will also clarify that Edgar181 was the user that wrote "Tetramethylammonium hydroxide" in the second revision of the page. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:32, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Cannabigerolic acid

Could somebody check my work for cannabigerolic acid -- first time I've done a chemistry article, I think. I'd like to include the structural formula File:CBGA molecule.svg in the infobox. ☆ Bri (talk) 23:20, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Bri:The article looks fine as far as it goes. Your structure drawing has a bad clash between the terminal dimethyl group of the sidechain and one of the phenol oxygens. I took the liberty of uploading a second version more or less exactly as in Chemspider (did you know you can download molfiles from there?). I then reverted my upload back to yours but if you prefer mine you should be able to re-revert to that. Michael D. Turnbull (talk) 16:16, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Sad news

I have some sad news to report ... Ronhjones, a prolific member of this project, passed away on 7 April last year, the day he made his last edit. Tributes are at his talk page. Graham87 05:26, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I have some even sadder news that I can now share publicly: Ron and his wife Sue died together in a house fire, as noted in their obituary from the London Inland Waterways Association newsletter. The friend of theirs who confirmed his passing also told me this info, but I didn't want to say it here without confirming that it was publicly available or I had permission. Graham87 16:24, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

It's probably worth a note here that I nominated one of his chemistry pages, UK Chemical Reaction Hazards Forum, for deletion. Graham87 13:30, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Styrene

An apparent styrene leak in India has killed 13 people and injured many more. As such there's been a sudden surge in editing on the 'Health effects' section of that page, not all of it to our usual standards. --Project Osprey (talk) 08:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Dichlorine pentoxide

Both of the references in this article mentioned that Cl₂O₅ is non-existent. --Leiem (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out this nonsense writing. ChemAbs has about six citations. --Smokefoot (talk) 11:58, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

@Nucleus hydro elemon:. User:Nucleus hydro elemon is contributing a lot of dubious content. Really unfortunate.--Smokefoot (talk) 13:31, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Crisscross method

I came across the Crisscross method article. To me it seems like an almost trivial method, with just a single source (a textbook that mentions it on one page). Is this method notable enough to satisfy WP:N (and WP:NOTTEXTBOOK)? —Bkell (talk) 18:45, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Support. I suggest you invoke WP:AFD Michael D. Turnbull (talk) 17:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Listed: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Crisscross method. —Bkell (talk) 19:12, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Atom FAR

I did NOT nominate this article for FAR-- just the doing nominations that were not done by the editor who did.

User:Kurzon has nominated Atom for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:27, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Top million substances

Hello, I’m working with User:Egon Willighagen from Wikidata and others to compile a list of what we consider to be the one million most important chemicals. This list will be used to prioritize what we look at for both Wikidata and Misplaced Pages, and possibly other external groups that interact with us. These chemicals could include things like the elements and other basic substances you would encounter in your chemistry education, chemicals encountered in everyday life (e.g. in detergents, food additives or hair gel) as well as more niche substances such as pharmaceuticals, polymers, pollutants, biologically important materials, etc. Are there any specific collections of substances you would recommend us to look at? Please post any suggested lists or databases below. I'll also post on WT:Chemicals. Many thanks, Walkerma (talk) 18:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Scandium perchlorate

The first two refs in this article use templates that have nothing to do with chemistry. I think some of the links in the chembox are wrong also. This is way beyond me. Can someone here take a look at. Thanks. MB 02:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

This whole article is an unattributed translation from zh:高氯酸钪 by User:Nucleus hydro elemon, whose many such articles including copy-pasting templates without the barest of checks that they have the same function in enwiki as zhwiki. Nucleus, please fix your mess and stop making such messes, as it has long become a WP:DE/WP:CIR problem. User:Leiem, you seem to contribute to many of the zhwiki articles involved, so perhaps you can talk to them about their edit habits in a way or language that is understandable. DMacks (talk) 02:35, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

...well, Nucleus won't be editing for the next day, but at least this is an explanation of the weird situation MB noted. DMacks (talk) 02:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I have left a message on his zhwp talk page. --Leiem (talk) 06:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

In this article, the refs in Chinese are about the coordination compounds synthesized using scandium perchlorate as the reactant. --Leiem (talk) 06:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Everything contributed by User:Nucleus hydro elemon is garbage. He mainly contributes to obscure topics. --Smokefoot (talk) 12:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Two cultures

I've been asked (by Eugen Schwarz) a half-scientific question, as follows:

"(How far) are the concepts of "The Two Cultures" (chemist C. P. Snow ) and of "Paradigm Shift" and "Scientific Revolution" (T. Kuhn) known among real and computational chemists?

I've never heard of "The Two Cultures" concept. I've heard of "Paradigm shift" and "Scientific revolution" but that is only from reading what Scerri has said about the development of scientific knowledge per A tale of seven scientists.

Are there any real and computational chemists here, who could take a stab at Eugen's question?

Thank you --- Sandbh (talk) 00:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, I am long retired as a computational chemist, but way back I much enjoyed the novels of C. P. Snow, and I read "The Two Cultures" with interest and discussed it with many friends, both chemists and non-chemists. I think it was an important contribution attempting to bridge the gap between scientists and non-scientists. Are you suggesting that computational chemists are not real? --Bduke (talk) 01:31, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

​Schwarz is a theoretical chemist. I believe he was referring to a “bangs and stinks” chemist. Sandbh (talk) 12:48, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that computational chemists are not real? Exactly my thought too when I read the question at the top of this thread. "The Two Cultures" originally referred to the split between the humanities and sciences. So I guess this has been extended to a perceived split between theoretical/computational and experimental chemists. I have done both, so I suppose that I am in a somewhat unique position to comment. I personally do not see a conflict between the two. The goal of theoretical/computational chemistry is to explain and predict experimental results. As long as both sides keep in mind that All models are wrong, but some are useful – George Box, then there is no conflict. Contributions from both sides are also essential for Paradigm shifts and Scientific Revolutions. Boghog (talk) 14:09, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I've passed those comments on to Eugen. Sandbh (talk) 06:59, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Differentiating electrons d/e

Do anomalies in d/e actually make a difference to the chemistry of the elements concerned?

I understand this is the case with silver which, according to the idealised Madelung Rule, should be ds in the free atom but is in fact ds. This discrepancy seems to, at least in part, contribute to the predominance of its main group chemistry.

Teixidó (2019, in Spanish, here) an Emeritus Professor of Chemical Engineering at the University of Barcelona, says that these anomalies impact the elements concerned such that, "their compounds, have properties that do not match the expected regular periodicity. This is the case of Cu, Cr, Pd, Ag, Rh, Pt, Ave or Uno, to name a few." He does not elaborate.

thank you, Sandbh (talk) 07:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

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