User talk:Weirdoactor - Misplaced Pages

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This user's boss likes to come up with "work" for this user to do that is (unfortunately) non-Misplaced Pages related...CURSES!!! Thusly, he may not respond swiftly to queries.

PLEASE, OH PLEASE READ THIS!!!!!!111
For the sake of continuity, as well as for the sake of my (alleged) sanity:

If you leave a message on my talk page, I will respond on my talk page.
Conversely, if I leave a message on your talk page, I will watch your talk page, read your response, and respond there.
If you are unable/unwilling to follow this policy, I will move your comment to your talk page for you. Or you can just not post. Your choice. Thanks!

You may start a new topic if you wish. Please sign your message (by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~), or I'll make you clean litter boxes for a week. Yes. Dirty, smelly litter boxes.

As I do a lot of Counter-Vandalism editing, I am aware that I will be targeted by vandals and their various sock/meat puppets. Such persons should note that I have a zero tolerance policy for personal attacks or harassment OF ANY STRIPE posted here. Such posts will be removed and those responsible will be warned and reported to the appropriate authority, if necessary. Thank you in advance for your cooperation, and please do try and have a truly Wikilicious day.

Mary Peters

Peters is not officially the 15th secretary, but I intended the italics to mean that if confirmed she will be (so it was a conditional 15). Otherwise it may appear that Peters falls under or between Mineta like Cino. I don't know for sure Misplaced Pages's policy, guideline, or practice on this, but sice it is not a crystal ball, I deleted the 15 after reading your question. Also, despite what I wrote in the article, I don't think it's right to say that her nomination is pending. Bush nominated her yesterday, but her ascension to the seat (there must be a better way to say that...) is pending Senate confirmation. Thanks for your question. Does this answer it? Minutiaman 12:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC-4) (and in case you were wondering in reading this page's edit history I forgot to sign my first edit a moment ago)

It does. Thanks! And there should be a better way of saying "acension". Maybe "pending confirmation"? Weirdoactor 13:57, 6 September 2006 (UTC-4)

Your edit to Talk:Halloween

Greetings, Weirdoactor. While I can understand that provocation can bring out the worst in all of us, Misplaced Pages has a policy against personal attacks. Please remember that attacks are not tolerated at Misplaced Pages, under any circumstances. Thanks. :) Justin Eiler 00:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC-5)

I understand your point of view, and I appreciate your comment. Weirdoactor 10:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC-5)

Hello Weirdoactor, please discuss any changes you make at the talk page. The topic has been discussed at lenght and a consensus has been formed which lead to a well balanced article. Specify, in what way you disagree with the content of the article before removing other peoples's text. Also, I ask you to revert the first level warning you misused. A misuse will not be tolerated in Misplaced Pages. Please read the guidelines for using this template. Do not use it against the people who try to contribute valuebly to Misplaced Pages. Please read the discussion to this controversial issue at the talk page. This is a reasonable basis for everyone. Thanks. Caloon2000 15:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

You must have me confused with someone who fell off the turnip truck last night, dude. You certainly know a lot of Wiki policy and lingo for a newbie. Methinks you are a meatpuppet, and I will report you as such to the proper authority. I calls them like I sees them; if you don't like that, difficult mammary. -- Weirdoactor 15:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Your message regarding the Vandalizer 24.60.119.106

Hi there, I too am confused why 24.60.119.106 has still not been blocked. However you must realize I am not an administrator :P. I just try as best as I can to edit vandalism where ever I see it. Maybe it would be beneficial if either you or myself report this IP to an administrator.¤~Persian Poet Gal 16:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC-5)

Ah. Gotcha. You're like me, a deputy. We need to tell a marshal. I've reported the IP to Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism, but nothing has been done. If you have any suggestions, it's obvious to me from your contributions and your user page that you're a lot more experienced with this sort of thing than I am...let me know how I can help. Thanks! Weirdoactor 16:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC-5)

Caloon

The caloon matter is not a matter of simple vandalism. I suggest you take it to WP:ANI if there is a continuing issue. JoshuaZ 15:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Will do. Thanks! -- Weirdoactor 15:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

I do however suggest that both of you try to calmly discuss the matter on the talk page and be careful of the 3 revert rule. JoshuaZ 15:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Discussion doesn't seem to be their forte. I smell a meat/sock puppet, and have reported as such. I will not revert the article again. -- Weirdoactor 15:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Re:Your edits to Halloween

It may merit a section if it can be expanded more, but as it stood it was about two sentences long with the admission that Halloween isn't very important in the Caribbean. I think that the section should mostly cover the places where Halloween is most widely observed because more can be written about them. Perhaps instead of adding a section for every obscure country/region in the world, we can add an "elsewhere" section to the page for that type of information.

And yes, I've been known to spell things wrong occasionally, I am human :-). Please correct anything you may see. - Mike | Happy Thanksgiving 17:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

RfC on Keltik31

Thank you for starting the RfC on this user. Anti-Semitism and users who push only POV have no place on Misplaced Pages. I commented on the RfC. It's pretty consistent with yours. Again, thank you! --Db099221 20:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Your comments on my talk page

If you didn't see my response there: You said, among other things, "Example: "Other Christians get very emotional about Halloween, rejecting the holiday because they believe it trivializes the occult and what they perceive as evil"."

My response: Interesting. I didn't perceive the "emotional" thing as POV. Thanks for your input. How about if we change it to "concerned". The "rejecting the holiday because they believe it trivializes the occult and what they perceive as evil" was already there; I didn't write that bit. Feel free to change it, or I will if you prefer. Thanks again for your work on the article . --Kathryn NicDhàna 17:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Thank you for your kind words. And actually, you don't have to be an admin to hand out barnstars] :-) --Kathryn NicDhàna 15:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC-5)

False NPA Report by Caloon2000

- I'm curious about how asking an obvious liar (who uses said lies as a defense of their vandalism and multiple violations of the three revert rule) about their religious obligation *not* to lie is an "attack", or indeed, "offensive". Was it slightly ad hominem? Perhaps. But I thought it a valid point to bring up, when comparing Caloon2000's actions with their professed beliefs.

- I brought up the possibility that Caloon2000 was a meat/sock puppet (based on the new user's odd grasp of Misplaced Pages policy and lingo); but I never said "YOU are a meat/sock puppet". I've made an appropriate report about my suspicions to the proper authority, but that's all.

- Multiple? I've used that template once; and it was not a misuse, as I understand policy. I might be wrong; if so, please correct my misconception. The template was used in good faith to warn an obvious vandal with multiple bad faith edits/reverts over a very short period of time.

In closing, I'd like to point out that this report by Caloon2000 is in fact an obvious retaliation for my reporting his/her violations; and does not even meet the minimum criteria for a report of this type, as I have never been warned for making a "personal attack" on Caloon2000 (from the report page: "The editor must have been warned with the npa2, and npa3 templates as appropriate. Reports of unwarned editors may be removed.") Obviously, this report should be removed and ignored on that basis alone, not to mention my aforementioned reasons. Thank you. -- Weirdoactor 08:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC-5)

I would add to this that Caloon2000 has twice placed unwarranted vandalism templates on my talk page, in retaliation for my reporting his 3RR violations. Every time I warn him not to remove warnings or postings from his talk page, he retaliates with another false accusation. --Kathryn NicDhàna 15:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Keltik31

Hi, Keltik31 has been blocked for 24 hours. Addhoc 15:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Thank you for your assistance! Am I allowed to give barnstars? Probably not... -- Weirdoactor 15:15, 2 November 2006 (UTC-5)

it was via this dubious page & highly objectionable comment that i encounter this oh so lovely user. it bothers me so i report it somewhere, & am told we have to wait until he is personaly offensive again. i'm newish here, is there no specific policy against hate speech per se? u seemed like u might know these things. thx in adv →bsnowball 07:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC-5)

He was recently blocked for 24 hours, and hasn't done anything naughty (or at all) since. Let's hope he either comes back and is a productive NPOV editor, or stays away. I hope that helped. -- weirdoactor -- 21:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC-5)

duh, stupid me, had noticed that then forgotten & started misreading as this month again. thx. sorry to bother u. → bsnowball 03:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC-5)

I have started the RfC process for Keltik31, and I would appreciate your comment on my request here, so that my request can meet the two-person threshold. Thank you! BTW, thanks for listing me as a Wikifriend. I consider you the same. --Db099221 18:58, 29 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Done! Let me know if I did that incorrectly. Thanks for your help and friendship! -- weirdoactor -- 11:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC-5)

RE: Jay-Z

Oops! I put the wrong link, it should've been Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Pseudonyms.2C_stage_names_and_common_names. It's very clear there that the full name should be first followed by the pseudonym most associated with the person. --Zimbabweed 17:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Userbox

Hi, Weirdoactor,

I took the liberty of adding a userbox to your userpage. I figure after the Keltik31 stress, more levity (and More cowbell) would be a good thing. :) Justin Eiler 17:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Jay-Z

Thank you for your message - I must try harder. As ever, the continuing changes to Wiki policy leave me in their wake. In fact, the so-called "help pages" are, to me, full of Americanisms; journalistic; overly linked; prone to long-speak; that I quickly fall asleep reading any of them. I was merely trying to enhance the article - I do understand the potential vandalism issues. (Honestly, I am a good guy - old and misguided - but basically meaning well). Cheers,

Derek R Bullamore 18:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to your kind message; and yes, you did mean well, no question! The reversion was in no way a criticism of your edit; merely a "course correction". Please continue to be bold! Thanks! -- weirdoactor -- 21:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC-5)

T.R.Knight/Luke MacFarlane

I am acquainted with both actors, and neither is secretive about their relationship. In fact, after Knight "came out" to People, the couple was featured in a photo spread in US Weekly. SFTVLGUY2 10:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC-5)

I moved your response and my response to your talk page, for consistency. -- Weirdoactor 11:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Re: Thanks!

Thanks for your help blocking the link spammer in Luck (and several other articles). -- weirdoactor -- 17:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC-5)

No problem! Just doing my duty. Regards, (aeropagitica) 17:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Re: Thanks for your comments to 75.2.250.145

You can report your findings to WP:ANB or to WP:PAIN for investigation. I will post your comments to the noticeboards on your behalf. Regards, (aeropagitica) 18:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Much appreciated. I forgot to add that the user has been accused of being User:Joehazelton, a recently indefinitely blocked user. There's definitely a similar pattern to their edits and comments. -- weirdoactor -- 18:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC-5)

75.2.250.145 now reported. (aeropagitica) 18:28, 7 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Thanks again. Sorry that it appears they are now targeting you. Ouch. That definitely was not my intention. -- weirdoactor -- 18:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Given recent events...

I thought you'd appreciate this tidbit on MPOV. Heee! --Kathryn NicDhàna 02:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC-5)

HA! Awesome. Thanks for the laugh! -- weirdoactor -- 02:07, 8 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Reporting Personal Attacks

What do you mean when you say, "Such posts will be removed and reported to the appropriate authority". Who do you report these posts to? --nkayesmith 03:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Not so much a "who" as a where. If it's "simple vandalism", one would report that here. -- weirdoactor -- 07:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC-5)

OK, thanks for the reply. --nkayesmith 20:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC-5)

External Linking

As you seem to be an experienced Misplaced Pages user, I am hoping you can help me clear up some questions that I have related to external linking on Misplaced Pages. I have also asked this question of other editors, and I am interested in anyone who has a response to this question, as I would like to understand the feelings and opinions surrounding this issue on Misplaced Pages.

I not only understand why linkspamming should be discouraged, but I agree that companies should not be able to edit their articles and change the point of view. And I can understand why adding links could be considered similar to changing the POV.

However, I truly believe that adding usable content (much like the way the official sites are almost always linked to under a corporate article) is a benefit to Misplaced Pages users. Therefore, there must be a way for corporate entities to let the Misplaced Pages editors and writers know about content that is useful to the article, even if the representatives cannot add it directly to the article themselves. The truth is that oftentimes companies are the authority on certain topics since it is the area in which they live and breathe.

In this case, I am suggesting a link to a web resource that has not been officially launched and therefore the public does not generally know that this resource exists. While I will certainly stay away from adding the link myself, I would like to do my best to let people know that this website exists. A heads up or sneak preview at something most people don't know about. However, in doing so, and suggesting the link on discussion pages for articles, I am met with discrimination simply because I am related to Diageo. The usefulness of the link is not considered for a second.

I hope that you can provide some insight, because at the moment it seems that the core of Misplaced Pages, which is providing useful and related information on all topics, is not being upheld by it's own editors and writers in an effort to exclude anything related to a company or organization.

Thanks. --Jack The Bartender 11:14, 28 November 2006 (UTC-5)

Jack, what you are describing is akin to astroturfing. I could no more help you (and Diageo) with your "problem" than I would help Wal-Mart. I am a firm believer in having no advertising of any kind on Misplaced Pages, be it obvious linkspam, or a more guerilla advertising method as you (and Diageo) are attempting here.

And by the by; the "core" of Misplaced Pages is not "providing useful and related information on all topics". That sounds more like the core, or purpose of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. -- weirdoactor -- 11:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC-5)

My user page

Hey, thanks for fixing the redlink! Mind if I borrow some of your userpage stuff? :) |||||| E. Sn0 =31337= 21:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC-5)

Go for it! RAID MY FRIDGE! W00t! -- weirdoactor -- 22:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC-5)

I can see we'll get along just grand! :D |||||| E. Sn0 =31337= 22:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC-5)

==Page weirdness==

Oh, it's just some annoyed message from an anon. I speedied his vanity page of himself and he didn't appreciate it. Apparently he's relevant to the Chicago Fire (I bet =P). It sort of amuses me, so I haven't moved it or anything. Thanks though ^^; ♠PMC♠ 04:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC-5)

HagermanBot test

I'm not signing this. No. I'm not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Weirdoactor (talk • contribs) 14:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC-5).

This is a minor edit, and I'm not signing it. Not at all.

This is not a minor edit, and I'm STILL not signing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Weirdoactor (talk • contribs) 14:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC-5).

Three Cheers for HagermanBot! |||||| E. Sn0 =31337= 14:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC-5)

Heh. I'm guessing that the bot ignores minor edits. I guess it would have to, huh? -- weirdoactor -- 14:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC-5)

To those watching my talk/userspace: please support Don't-give-a-fuckism

You can do so here, and by using the cool userbox below (template: {{User_DGAF}}.)

Template:User DGAF

Thanks! -- weirdoactor -- 00:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC-5)

==16==

Gets tiring, doesn't it? This is why I support registration to edit. :) E. Sn0 =31337= 12:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC-5)

I've been vandalized by registered users; so that wouldn't help. I take it as a compliment to my vandal fighting skills. Har. -- weirdoactor -- 13:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC-5)

Regged users are easy: Simply indefblock and note the IP. Yeah, I love whacking vandals too, they make a nice chewtoy. E. Sn0 =31337= 14:18, 8 December 2006 (UTC-5)

3RR doesn't cover vandalism

Hi. Thanks for reporting a vandal to AIV.

I just thought you might be interested that reverting vandalism doesn't fall under the 3RR.

Cheers, -- Where 21:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC-5)

I just hate having to break that rule, even for the common good. I figure if I have to go that far, an admin should probably be looking at the problem. Thanks! -- weirdoactor -- 21:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC-5)

Sorry about that. I didn't look into the edits enough before I removed the message from AIV. But I did look at it a tad afterwards and blocked the user a little before you left the message on my talk.

Sorry about the confusion. -- Where 02:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

No worries; have a good one! -- weirdoactor -- 02:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Yikes. I had hoped s/he would learn. Well, I reblocked for 6 months. Thanks for telling me! -- Where 00:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

That's my hope as well; that a few warnings and maybe even a block can turn a vandal into a good contributor. Maybe they'll still turn it around. Thanks for your quick response! -- weirdoactor -- 00:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I blocked the sock indef. If you feel that I am too slow, you could go to AIV if the situation recurs, but I'm happy to help. -- Where 03:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

For archiving..my old pretty mutli-color sig

-- '''] ]|]''' --

I'll miss you, old chum. -- weirdoactor 02:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Smiley ^_^

WarthogDemon has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

-WarthogDemon 02:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, WarthogDemon! I needed that. -- weirdoactor 03:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

My pleasure. :) -WarthogDemon 01:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Civilisation (or Civilization if you prefer) will fall

You do know that edits like this will draw untold numbers of people to your talk page. All of them predicting the total collapse of civilisation, anarchy in the streets and the downfall of pants.

On the other hand, I could have just said that putting "fair-use" images on a talk page is probably a no-no. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah. Yes. Sorry about that. I'll remove it; it was a response to E. Sn0 =31337='s "wingman" comment. Heh. Thanks! -- weirdoactor 16:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow, big and red

And yours is still ignored? Hrm. Someone recently suggested I move mine to the top, in Big Red Letters, so people wouldn't miss it. It seems from your experience that doesn't work either. Perhaps a large clue-stick really is the only way for some people. KillerChihuahua 15:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I could make 'em flash, or even offer bribes...some people just like to call you at home. Meh. -- weirdoactor 15:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks...

...for your persistent anti-vandal work (especially on separation of church and state). By way of thanks, here's a gratuitous picture of a kitten.

:D -- Collard 08:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Aw, thanks! Kittens are ALWAYS welcome! -- weirdoactor 13:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

SBPU seeks mentor, no vandals, no socks, must love dragons.

Single beige/pink semi-newbie user seeks mentor to help sharpen editing/wiki skills. Would prefer an admin, but would settle for someone smart enough to be an admin, but who doesn’t WANT to be an admin.

Skills I’d like to improve on:

AfD participation
New article creation
Article deletion (speedy, PROD, etc.)
Being a better wikignome/fairy
How to stay cool when the editing/debating/etc gets hot
How to be a better vandalism/RC patroller
Anything else I might need to work on to be a better editor/Wikipedian

Interested? Tell me why you’d be a good mentor. Thanks! -- weirdoactor 21:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm surprised.

You need "to be adopted by an experienced editor"? Xiner (talk, email) 23:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup. I've mainly tweaked (copyediting, typos, link fixing, etc) articles here and there, and patrolled for vandalism and RC stuff. I don't have a lot of experience with article creation, deletion, or process related stuff. I'm good, but I want to be better. Does that make sense? I hope so. It feels fluffy. -- weirdoactor 23:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Just come across you on the list of user wanting to be adopted - as with Xiner am surprised, what with approx 1500 edits I am sure you know your way around Misplaced Pages pretty well, and if you don't know something I am sure you know where to ask. I suppose if you have not being dealing that much with process of policies it all might seem a bit strange. Hmmm adoption might or not be the thing for you.

Here's a suggestion: make a subpage of your talk/userpage - this is where you should put your queries and questions - get a few Adopters (or others for that matter) to sign up and watchlist this page - I would be most happy to do so. Then when you have a question one of us could point you in the right direction. What you think - you too Xiner?

If this suggestion is rubbish just say. Anyhow Cheers Lethaniol 01:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I'm not sure how to make weirdoactor feel fluffy though. That might be my first question. Xiner (talk, email) 03:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Lethaniol: I have 1500 edits? I thought only "mainspace" edits (I have just under 300, I think) counted towards your edit count. Huh. Wow. I ROCK. Heh. I'll create that subpage. Good idea, thanks! I've removed the "adopt me" tag.

Xiner: re: "fluffy"...I have no idea what I meant. I think I meant that I came off sounding like a goofball. -- weirdoactor 15:35, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Subpage created here. Soon, I'll populate it with questions. Soon. Maybe today. Soon. -- weirdoactor 15:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

W00t and Santorum (sexual slang) have been nominated for deletion!

Two of my favorite words, and both being AfD'd at the same time. WHAT ARE THE ODDS? You can comment here and here. -- weirdoactor 18:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Work/busy template

Man, I love the template at the top of this page. GO Trekkie! —Scouter Sig 18:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh. Live long and prosper! And by prosper, I mean BANG MUCH GREEN THREE-BREASTED TAIL, THE KIRK WAY. -- weirdoactor 18:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, to see User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me block in fortnights, from his page, click on "contributions" and then "logs." —Scouter Sig 18:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

To delete or not to delete

Hello, Weirdoactor. We could nominate the article for deletion, or have an Administrator review the article. See Talk:List of family relations in the National Hockey League, for further elaboration. GoodDay 19:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Responded on Talk:List of family relations in the National Hockey League. -- weirdoactor 20:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I've done further edits on the (above) article. Feel free to edit the article in anyway you wish. Your contributions are as important as mine or anyones. PS- As I'm not much of a Ballet fan, I'll let you handle the Ballerina article. GoodDay 23:13, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at this

Daakshayani 11:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay. I took a look. Is something magical going to happen now? -- weirdoactor 01:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

23

I notice you have taken 23 off your watchlist as that would be a pity. I have worked on a number of pages falling within the remit of the paranormal project and they have all been sensibly editted. It does need a steady hand on the tiller and I have proposed a fix or two which would keep things tight. (Emperor 04:22, 27 December 2006 (UTC))

Okay. But the first time I smell an OBPOV (Ooga Booga Point Of View), I'm gone. -- weirdoactor 05:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to guess an OBPOV smells like spittle-moistened beards. Thing is non-OBPOV are always required, even on the strangest of pages, to help maintain objectivity. I'll keep a nose out for it just in case ;) (Emperor 05:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC))

Interesting call on the William Burroughs origin. I have looked hard and found nothing. Its weird but RAW makes extensive use of false documents and I'm left with the strange suspicion that this all hangs on his word for it (one would think it would be mentioned in relation to Burroughs - I did a quick search in book at Amazon.com and found nothing) and I wonder if it is part of the whole "game". It does appear that if you say something often enough it becomes true. I'm going to ask around with folks who should know if it is true and I might later ask on the Burroughs entry talk page. (Emperor 00:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

I wonder if it would satisfy WP:V/WP:RS if I scan the pertinent pages, host them myself, and provide the citation link...-- weirdoactor 12:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Its a tricky one. If it is scanned in then it is pretty definitive (and fair use) but it does get into a grey area - linking to yourself to prove a point. One would also imagine that if it was worth putting online someone somewhere has done it (unless it is really really obscure). I think I have run across pictures of the scrap book but again it is unsourced so may not be. Frustrating. (Emperor 14:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

Nice trick

How did you find me, but BoxingWear does not lead people to my talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BoxingWear (talk • contribs) 14:25, December 29, 2006 (UTC)

I'm a tricky bastard. -- weirdoactor 20:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Ocean's 13

Hey Wierdoactor. For Ocean's 13, assuming that the orignal 11 will still be in the con again, I based #s 1-11 on that and since Terry Benedict is joining them, he is #12 and presumably either François Toulour or Roman Nagel will become #13, so basing the (##) on that data, I placed them. But, I understand your concern and is appreciated as[REDACTED] should be encyclopedic. --WTRiker 04:02, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I understand your process, and agree with your reasoning for who is what number; but without verification, it's original research. Thanks for your understanding, and please continue to be bold! Great user name, by the way. -- weirdoactor 04:07, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia and all that

"I personally would rather have short, well-written, well-sourced articles with sub-pages for trivia (much like userpages are built) rather than long, meandering articles that stack trivia next to the meat of the article." -- As I've said myself, this is the sort of organization that I prefer, too. Please don't accuse me of going on a "jihad" when we want the same thing. Andrew Levine 22:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

You agree with my statement, yet you also "have nothing against long articles." I see a logic conflict here, Andrew. It sounds like you're saying that you want hot ice water. That just isn't possible.

Also; I did not accuse you of going on a "jihad". My exact words were "Should we go on a jihad against any article that even smacks of "trivia" or cruft?"; I see no accusation of you or anyone else, I see a question. Please don't accuse me of acts I have yet to commit. When I'm accusing you of something, you'll know it...example: Andrew, you're out of line by saying that I have accused you of anything. See? I said your name, then I told you how I thought you were acting out of line. THAT was an accusation.

I think we want the same thing, Andrew; to make Misplaced Pages a tighter, stronger encyclopedia, with trivia and cruft used as sparingly as possible. But trivia and cruft DO have a place in any encyclopedia. I like to think of articles full of such things as restaurants that I don't necessarily want to eat at myself, but that I have no right to deprive others the opportunity to dine there should they choose to do so. -- weirdoactor 23:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why you think my acceptance of some long articles means that they must necessarily be packed with irrelevant information. Great Fire of London is a long article that does not have excessive trivia. Rather, it is long because it covers its subject completely and does not leave out significant facts or aspects of the event. There's no contradiction at all. Andrew Levine 23:40, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

There's a three paragraph section on "London in the 1660s", a five paragraph section on "Fire hazards in the City", and a four paragraph section on "Seventeenth-century firefighting". You really don't think that's excessive? I'm all for giving some background color, but that's a lot of information. Are you saying there's no way to trim that fat? -- weirdoactor 23:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the historical context they provide is valuable; there's nothing in those paragraphs which really sticks out to me as being a waste of the readers' time. But if you think any of it is egregious, you can bring it up on the talk page and discuss how best to cut it down. Even if you got rid of three or four sentences, however, you'd still have an article that was both pretty long and pretty good, which proves my point. (Moreover, there is also no section dedicated solely to references to the Great Fire in popular culture.) Andrew Levine 23:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It is good; but it's hard to read. Is readability not a factor for a good article? I get pretty much everything I need in the first graph. What do you think about nesting articles, like how user pages are constructed? A particularly long article would have a meaty, but short main article, with however many "sub-articles" that might be needed to provide more color, background, and yes, trivia. As for there being no references to the Great Fire in popular culture, perhaps there aren't any, or none that can be added while satisfying WP:V.

Take a look at this comparison:

Great Chicago Fire - 16 KBs (estimated), 4 pages when printed
1906 San Francisco earthquake - 32 KBs (estimated), 9 pages when printed
Great Fire of London - 56 KBs, 13 pages when printed
Hurricane Katrina - 100 KBs, 23 pages when printed

Not exactly apples to apples; but I guess it raises the question "when is enough information enough"? WP:SIZE, while only a guideline, is pretty clear about this issue:

Articles longer than 12 to 15 printed pages (more than 30 to 35 KB of readable text) take longer to read than the upper limit of the average adult's attention span — 20 minutes. An important consideration is that attention span is lower for children, adults of below-average intelligence, and all those with attention deficit disorders (groups we would like to serve as well). Compounding this is that many of these groups also have a slower reading speed. Once the attention span limit is approached, most readers will start to lose focus and retention of the information begins to become significantly hampered. All but the most determined readers will quit reading once this starts to happen, so going over the recommended limit needs to be justified by the topic.

We're called "editors" for good reason. Perhaps some are better at self-editing than others; I know I suck at it, and can only assume that others can be as wordy as I am. I think we need to pay more attention to what we refer to in data management as "end user priorities". If your average user doesn't want (or need) to read four paragraphs about "seventeenth-century firefighting", they shouldn't have to pay that price to get to the meat of the article. -- weirdoactor 00:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

"As for there being no references to the Great Fire in popular culture, perhaps there aren't any" --Well, off the top of my head I can recall the Fire playing a role in the plotline of Neal Stephenson's novel Quicksilver, and also being depicted in the movie Restoration with Robert Downey Jr. But as for your quotation of WP:SIZE, that has not been a barrier to passing featured article candidates for about a year, with the mega-sized Katrina article you cite, along with the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, both passing FAC in 2006, and there are many other featured articles of similar length that have gotten through in recent months. On FAC, the relevant debate on appropriate article length has switched to deciding what level of detail and comprehensiveness the article's subject requires, rather than the application of WP:SIZE as a blunt instrument which was formerly popular. In any event, I pointed out before that we are in agreement that "X in popular culture" or "cultural depictions of X" sub-articles are the best way of handling the excessive cultural-allusions matter that sparked this discussion. Andrew Levine 06:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Pax

w00t! - crz crztalk 19:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

HA! -- weirdoactor 19:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Golly

I didn't realize anyone linked to my admin disclaimer. What a pleasant surprise! Smiles, Durova 04:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Your comments on my Talk page

AfD and DRV are not debates, they are discussions. And every location on Misplaced Pages must adhere to the WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA policies. Your comments on my Talk page border on offensive, as well, and you need to back off. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)