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| Section sizes
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Section size for Arabs (49 sections)
| Section name |
Byte
count |
Section
total
|
| (Top) |
45,478 |
45,478
|
| Etymology |
5,052 |
5,052
|
| Origins |
9,808 |
9,808
|
| History |
11,268 |
85,866
|
| Antiquity |
16,189 |
35,950
|
| Classical antiquity |
14,572 |
14,572
|
| Late antiquity |
5,189 |
5,189
|
| Middle Ages |
4,588 |
20,591
|
| Arab empires |
24 |
16,003
|
| Rashidun era (632–661) |
3,451 |
3,451
|
| Umayyad era (661–750 and 756–1031) |
2,832 |
2,832
|
| Abbasid era (750–1258 and 1261–1517) |
2,705 |
2,705
|
| Fatimid era (909–1171) |
3,170 |
3,170
|
| Ottoman era (1517–1918) |
3,821 |
3,821
|
| Renaissance |
8,636 |
8,636
|
| Modern period |
9,421 |
9,421
|
| Identity |
3,110 |
3,110
|
| Subgroups |
10,094 |
10,094
|
| Geographic distribution |
30 |
37,184
|
| Arab homeland |
876 |
876
|
| Arab diaspora |
2,575 |
36,278
|
| Europe |
9,030 |
9,030
|
| Americas |
12,661 |
12,661
|
| Caucasus |
2,552 |
2,552
|
| Central, South, East and Southeast Asia |
5,481 |
5,481
|
| Sub-Saharan Africa |
3,979 |
3,979
|
| Religion |
10,051 |
10,051
|
| Culture |
1,038 |
70,680
|
| Language |
3,007 |
3,007
|
| Mythology |
3,505 |
3,505
|
| Literature |
8,327 |
8,327
|
| Cuisine |
1,607 |
1,607
|
| Art |
8,555 |
8,555
|
| Architecture |
4,323 |
4,323
|
| Music |
5,907 |
5,907
|
| Spirituality |
4,512 |
4,512
|
| Philosophy |
2,678 |
2,678
|
| Science |
18,750 |
18,750
|
| Theatre |
2,854 |
2,854
|
| Fashion |
2,425 |
2,425
|
| Wedding and marriage |
3,192 |
3,192
|
| Genetics |
7,762 |
7,762
|
| See also |
129 |
129
|
| References |
17 |
11,007
|
| Notes |
47 |
47
|
| Citations |
49 |
49
|
| Sources |
10,894 |
10,894
|
| Further reading |
601 |
601
|
| External links |
667 |
667
|
| Total |
297,489 |
297,489
|
| |
 |
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Sentence in lead
A part of the sentence in the third paragraph of the lead doesn't make grammatical sense, specifically (my bold added):
" leading to significant Arab migration from the East, extremely to North Africa, under the rule of Arab empires "
I'm not 100% sure what this is trying to say; that the extreme edge of Arab migration was North Africa? Or that migration was extremely intense in North Africa? R Prazeres (talk) 18:57, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- I removed the confusion part. M.Bitton (talk) 19:37, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. My only minor further recommendation would be to word it more generally still, since Arab migrations (and Arabization) occurred across most of the caliphate. R Prazeres (talk) 19:44, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- I'm not sure about that given that the sentence is about the migration of the Arabs. M.Bitton (talk) 20:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Abrahamic mythology
Why are we treating Abrahamic mythology too seriously by giving it this much weight? This is all recent updates as far as I can remember, which have seriously reduced the article's credibility. Islam's narrative about the origin of Arabs is built on Abrahamic beliefs -the Torah was written in 500 BC- which completely contradicts historical facts written in this very same article that Arabs built civilizations 3000 BC. This conflation of historical facts and myths is extremely problematic. One possible solution is to create a new article where content in the Origins section, could be moved there, keeping only a very brief mention here; but I don't know if this fulfills WP:Notability. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- I agree that the mythology is given too much weight in both the lead and the Origins section. I'm not sure a separate article is needed as much as just a heavy trim. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:20, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- I have trimmed this from the lede; but still huge chunks are remaining in the origins section, which are harder to summarize to one paragraph (maximum in my opinion). Makeandtoss (talk) 14:13, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Hyperlink change
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Under the Religion subsection, at the end of the first sentence of the second paragraph, the hyperlink to the goddess Uzza links to a species of animal. This should be changed to the https://en.wikipedia.org/Al-Uzza page. Pimprov (talk) 00:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Done Largoplazo (talk) 03:37, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Edomites
@Skitash: The presentation of the Edomites as one of the Arab peoples is not in the body of the article, and also the source used does not adequately support the text. Mawer10 (talk) 23:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I reverted your changes because you were not providing an adequate explanation for them. As to the source, it indeed supports the statement, and I have added it to the body of the article. Skitash (talk) 15:01, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- The source doesn't say "Edomites are Arabs" or "Edomites are considered Arabs by most/many scholars." Instead, the source mentions that Edomites are a Semitic people "identified by some scholars as Arab." Presenting the Edomites in the lead without acknowledging this detail mislead the reader into believing that Edomites are widely considered Arabs. Furthermore, the source used to support this information is not the most appropriate, as it is about a 1st-century individual, not the Edomites or Arabs. I suggest excluding the Edomites from the lead based on MOS:LEAD because, even though this information is now in the article's body, the Edomites are unimportant in overall Arab history, and their mention in the body is also very brief. The second option would be to mention clearly in the lead that Edomites are considered Arabs only by some scholars. Mawer10 (talk) 00:13, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/345499508_The_Religion_of_Idumea_and_Its_Relationship_to_Early_Judaism
“Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples born of you shall be divided; the one shall be stronger than the other, and the elder shall serve the younger” (Gen. 25:23), said God to Rebekah. “You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother” (Deut. 23:7), God instructed the people of Israel. “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” asked Malachi (1:2). Within the specifically Jewish collection that we call the Hebrew Bible, Esau and Jacob, the eponymous ancestors of Edom and Israel, were twins, and this influenced the relationship between their descendants throughout the biblical period. While we have no way of knowing what the Edomites thought about this relationship, Edom and Judah and then Idumea and Judea were of course geographically very close, so it would stand to reason that their inhabitants would have more than a few cultural traits in common. Based on the few Iron Age inscriptions found on both sides of the ‘Arabah, Vanderhooft has classified the Edomite language as Northwest Semitic, “in the Canaanite linguistic group”, and not, as has sometimes been claimed, as an Arabic dialect. This of course matches the biblical view of the Edomites as Israel’s “brothers”. According to Rollston, the late Iron Age Edomite script seems to be based on that of Aramaic.
https://www.academia.edu/26914216/The_Formation_of_Idumean_Identity
In his book published in the 1960’s, Avi-Yonah summarized what was then the general view: ‘south of Judah was the province of Idumaea, inhabited by Edomite Arabs who moved there after the fall of Jerusalem in 586 B.C. It included all southern Judah, from Beth-zur to Beersheba, except for the coastal plain. Its capital may have been Lachish, Mareshah, or even Hebron, the ancient capital of Judah’.23 We have already stated that the Edomites were not ‘Arabs’. Arguably, Eph‘al was the first to challenge the old paradigm, by realizing that the province of Idumea was only formed after the Macedonian conquest, officially recognizing what had by then become the main population of the area.
Mawer10 (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 December 2023
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The hyperlink for mezes, the Arabian dishes, links to https://en.wikipedia.org/Dr%C4%83g%C4%83ne%C8%99ti,_Bihor Marco Roccatto (talk) 19:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- Done Mezes is a redirect to Drăgănești, Bihor as it is a subdivision of the commune. Not sure if this is the most appropriate target... Liu1126 (talk) 19:26, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
- I've just WP:BOLDly retargeted the redirect. We'll see if anyone objects. Liu1126 (talk) 19:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
really an ethnic group?
i've heard a lot of Arabs say they regard Arab chiefly as a linguistic group identity; ethnically they are Moroccan or Palestinian, Jordanian or Druze, Iraqi or Algerian. I know this is just hearsay, but maybe the contested nature of the label should be elaborated? 128.114.255.141 (talk) 05:46, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
- here's at least one .edu source which agrees https://www.africa.upenn.edu/K-12/Who_16629.html it's pretty clearly a rudimentary kids' intro to the topic, but seemingly one made by qualified experts 128.114.255.141 (talk) 05:48, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Suggestions on cutting length
In follow-up to this, I'd suggest trimming the "History" section in particular, transferring any well-sourced content to History of the Arabs or elsewhere. Not only is it the largest section by far, but most of this history is covered directly by other relevant articles, so an overview article about one ethno-linguistic group doesn't really need to go into all this detail. The sections on "Antiquity" and the paragraphs preceding it are especially in need of WP:SUMMARYSTYLE.
The "Renaissance" subsection is also inserted awkwardly out of chronological order and has a bit of a POV slant: emphasizing an "Arab" character on the history of the whole Muslim world, even for something like the "Timurid Renaissance", which is hardly of central relevance here. We could probably move the most relevant points to other subsections and trim some of the more puffery-ish material. The Nahda, which is only mentioned in passing, might deserve more attention as part of the "Modern period". R Prazeres (talk) 20:30, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
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