Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Bibliomaniac15 (talk | contribs) at 02:00, 12 April 2008 (Reverted edits by 69.57.113.84 (talk) to last version by Alexfusco5). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Pokémon has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones Date Process Result September 23, 2004 Peer review Reviewed December 18, 2005 Good article nominee Listed January 7, 2006 Good article reassessment Delisted June 29, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted July 4, 2006 Peer review Reviewed July 22, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed February 16, 2007 Good article nominee Listed This article was on the Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive for the week of February 14, 2007. Current status: Good article

	This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
Template:PCP

There is a request, submitted by WPA, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages. The rationale behind the request is: "This article is a very important article that has enough information to be made as a spoken article.".

Template:Maintained

Archives

Archive 1 (October 2003 - April 2006) Archive 2 (May 2006 - February 2007) Archive 3 (February 2007 - December 2007)

Christmas/holidays

pokemon supports christmas and christianity with the CD, christmas Bash. this causes controversy from non-christioan groups. should this be added under Controversy? i'm new and trying the language. BrainiacMatt (talk) 20:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Proof? No proof, we can't verify or add it. -Jéské 19:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll rephrase myself: Find a newspaper article or news article that states or agrees with what you're saying. Until one is found, we can not add this to the article. -Jéské 20:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Archive 3

Thanks MelicansMatkin for creating archive #3! New year, new archive, and a fresh talk page! Cheers, Face 13:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Monster In My Pocket

A large section with statements labeled unreferenced since February 2007 was recently removed (by another editor). I don't know whether this was truely appropriate or not, but in any case I think discussion on those claims is warranted. Strangely, there seems to be no discussion about this in any of the past archives.

One of the claims was that Nintendo chose the name "Pokemon" in the US instead of "Pocket Monsters" like in Japan because of a lawsuit brought by the holders of the trademark "Monster In My Pocket". It's strange there wouldn't be more discussion over this, because as a person who was a fan of this franchise when it first came to the US (I was in middle school), I remember this controversy; possibly because I also remember playing the "Monster In My Pocket" NES game some years before that!

Unfortunately, this controversy is ancient in internet terms - 1998, that's like 4 years after the birth of the web! - and so I can't find many sources on this, and so even though I personally remember this issue, I'd have to agree we need to dig up some information before including it in the article

The best I could find was this article from 2001

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m5072/is_46_23/ai_80165415

It would support a claim like "Pokemon was originally called Pocket Monsters before coming to the United States in 1998", and another claim that there was a lawsuit over this trademark (Note that the judge ruled in Nintendo's favor, so I suspect they could have used Pocket Monsters in the US if they chose), but to claim one implied the other would be speculative (original research) even though it seems likely.

Anyone care to help digging up information? It's a little difficult since most of the results are archived (often old) versions of this article itself! Misplaced Pages is a victim of its own success in that regard. - TheBilly (talk) 16:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Dear TheBilly,

I personally do not believe that Nintendo ever planned to call the franchise "Pocket Monsters" in Euro-America. So far, apart from your article, I have found 4 additional sources about this, but they seem to contradict each other.

First of all, an article on gamingtarget.com and an academic case study about Pokémon mention the name "Pocket Monsters". The first one states:

"Poketto Monsutaa debuted in Japan where Nintendo published and released the Game Freak creation in February 1996. Poketto Monsutaa is translated to Pocket Monsters in English, but that would have to change to the popular contraction Pokemon once the game was exported to other countries. This was because in the 1990s, Morrison Entertainment Group established a brand called “Monsters in My Pocket,” which sounds similar to Pocket Monsters. However, despite Nintendo’s name change, Morrison sued anyway and lost."

The latter one, however, states:

"The original title printed on the game cartridge and box was "Pocket Monsters." As this name has potentially salacious connotations in English, the abbreviated "Pokemon" was used as the general name."

The case study does not mention the Monster In My Pocket suit. Instead, it says that Nintendo never even wanted to name its newest franchise Pocket Monster, because it has "potentially salacious connotations". Sounds dubious, but the extreme cultural adaptation of the anime for the North-American market is well-documented: every detail that could remind children about sex was removed.

Both texts do not source the quoted sentences unfortunately. However, if I would choise which one to believe, I would choise the case study, because the essay was written for a course in consumer behaviour by someone who was, at that time, an assistant professor at the Emerson College. It is a very detailed paper about the history of Pokémon and uses a lot references. The article on gamingtarget.com by contrast, does not lists sources, and only a small part of it is about Pokémon's history.

As for the lawsuit, I have found two other sources about it. The latter quotes directly from the opinion of the court:

"The marks are significantly different in sight and sound. The two marks look very different when written out as text. Pokemon is a single word with seven letters and an accented e. In contrast, Monster in My Pocket contains four separate words, two of which begin with m."

Both texts imply that the suit was not about the name "Pocket Monsters" at all. I think Morrison actually claimed that the name "Pokémon" was the problem.

Unless someone asks some Nintendo official, we can not be sure about this. However, my opinion is that we have too little proof to assume that Nintendo wanted it's franchise to be called "Pocket Monsters", and to much proof to refute this. So in short: I say we do not make this claim in the article.

Hope this helped.

Cheers, Face 22:18, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Chile's "Pokemon Subculture"

The consensus building process has now been violated twice, despite my asking objecting parties to explain the addition of this poorly sourced paragraph instead of edit-warring over it. First of all, I speak enough Spanish to know that this "source" is not claiming that a "Pokemon Subculture" exists. The "source" does not seem to support or make notable much of text being inserted into the article. Secondarily, this is a blog. It doesn't matter if it's hosted on a newspaper website, it's a blog. I see no evidence of editorial review or authority in this piece, and it does not appear to be making sensible claims - not to mention, no one is doing a good job of contextualizing or translating this "source" - what does this mean: People from Pokémon subculture claim that they're different to emos in that they not predict with the depressing thematical. ?? So does anyone actually want to discuss this, or just edit war over it? --Cheeser1 (talk) 19:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

According to a footnote from WP:SPS (the self-published source policy):

Some newspapers host interactive columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control. Where a news organization publishes the opinions of a professional but claims no responsibility for the opinions, the writer of the cited piece should be attributed (e.g. "Jane Smith has suggested..."). Posts left by readers may never be used as sources.

Thus, the El Mercurio blog would technically be considered acceptable source; I will assume good faith, seeing your interpretation of Misplaced Pages's no-sourcing-blogs policy as a little misunderstanding. I do agree, however, that the subculture claim should be cleaned up a little. However, since this such Chilean claim is supported for now only by this Spanish-language site, it does raise up concerns over WP:RSUE. --Andrewlp1991 (talk) 01:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I see no evidence that "the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." It just seems to exist as part of their site. Perhaps I'm missing some Spanish small print, but it looks like blog-musings to me (and some pretty far-fetched ones at that). --Cheeser1 (talk) 03:38, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Very well then. I removed the edit for now...also exceptional claims require exceptional sources, and I'm doubtful that just one sub-translated El Mercurio questionable Spanish-language blog post is gonna make the alleged "subculture" notable. --Andrewlp1991 (talk) 01:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Some pictures that may prove that the existence of this subculture has been acknowledged by Chilean media... I have no idea which tv show these came from, though: Esn (talk) 16:05, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Here are some more from a more reliable source: . Time to reinstate this section, maybe? Esn (talk) 16:11, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Once again, a photogallery from a Chinese newspaper about Chilean kids who call their little hipster clique "Pokemon" for no apparent reason (they aren't playing Pokemon, they're wearing makeup and wacky hair and dancing at clubs) - this does not make a subculture. Even if this is what they call their little clique, how is it relevant to this article? I could name my dog "Pokemon" but that doesn't make it related to Pokemon. --Cheeser1 (talk) 16:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

But this isn't someone's dog, this is a social group, and China Daily is a major newspaper. How is this different from chavs? You say "this doesn't make a subculture". If it's your word against that of a major newspaper, I'm going to go with the newspaper. Esn (talk) 03:48, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the China Daily is considered reliable. Unfortunately, the article itself is just a gallery of six seemingly unrelated pictures. I also fail to understand what this 'subculture' has to do with Pokémon/Pokemon itself. If you manage to find an actual informative article about this, I'll consider including it into the article. - Face 12:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I've done a quick search myself now. The only thing I found were a small number of YouTube videos via this blog post (google translation). This and this are examples of these videos. I've posted a message on both asking if someone could give some English explanation. - Face 13:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

There's also a long article in the Spanish-language Uncyclopedia (here). I acknowledge that there is currently a problem of finding sources (although the China Daily article should be proof enough that it is at least considered a fashion style - I don't know why Cheeser1 removed that, honestly). But you know the saying: "where there is smoke, there is usually fire", and there is currently a hell of a lot of smoke. Just google for "pokemon chile" and see how many references to an emo-like subculture you find. It seems that Cheeser's main objection is that this group calls themselves "Pokemon" and he can't figure out why. He wants to retain control of the word "Pokemon" and prevent it from being appropriated by a shady subculture. But isn't our job to report what's there, rather than to wish it wasn't? I'm sure that the millions of people who for centuries had decorated their woven baskets with swastikas in India didn't much like the Nazi appropriation of the symbol. Yet there it was. I assume that there's a good reason why the name "Pokemon" sprung up for them (which, a Chilean friend tells me, is both what they call themselves and the word that others use as an insult). A combination of otaku culture imitation with trying to be "unique" is my guess. I hope that eventually we'll find a good article that talks about this. But until then, we should at least mention this to the extent that the available sources allow us. Esn (talk) 07:36, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

There is another mention of the "pokemones subculture" in the Mullet (haircut) article. Esn (talk) 07:40, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Please familiarize yourself with our policy on original research, particularly synthesis. If this is based on your guess, and has no substantive relationship to the subject of this article, then it doesn't belong here. Please also try not to make unfounded accusations of my lording over the article when I am simply asking you to follow our content policies. And try not to jump straight into the Nazi analogies. It's a little early for that. --Cheeser1 (talk) 07:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I've added a sentence back in that is devoid of original research. Esn (talk) 08:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Do not reinsert contested material back into the article. It disrupts the consensus building process and doesn't do much to affirm our assumptions of good faith we might have given you. Please also note that you did not restrict yourself to what was given in the captions for this image gallery (not that an image gallery constitutes journalism that could substantiate sociological analysis). --Cheeser1 (talk) 08:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I think I did. Please explain what was in my sentence that was not in the article which I used to cite it. Also, what exactly are you objecting to? Are you objecting that China Daily is a reliable source, or are you objecting notability? Esn (talk) 08:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Or are you saying that a long article by China Daily is notable, but a short one is not? Esn (talk) 09:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

It appears as though you are having trouble with our notability policy, which tells us about what we can create articles about, not about what we can put into articles, and certainly not about which sources we can use. Please familiarize yourself with these polices. Please also note that the China Daily article is certainly not a source of sociological analysis, and it does not make use of the term "subculture," nor does it really establish any link (besides the name) between the subject of this article and the text you keep inserting (if anything, try creating Pokémon (subculture) and see how quickly it gets CSD'd). And for future reference, please don't cite the Uncyclopedia - it doesn't make your argument look very persuasive. --Cheeser1 (talk) 09:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, you win. I'll just quietly disappear now. From this article, anyway. I'll work at making the Pokémon (subculture) article worthy (though I wish I had some help from someone who understood Spanish). If anyone adds this information to the main Pokemon article again, it will not be me. Esn (talk) 10:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

You actually created Pokémon (subculture)?! OMG..... Well, I guess we'll continue this discussion at the appropriate talk page then. - Face 12:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I know, there is a jaw shaped hole in my desk. I was in the middle of writing an olive-branch reply to his "okay you win" sulky thing when I noticed this ridiculous creation of an article that I obviously wasn't really telling him to go create. --Cheeser1 (talk) 12:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I object to being accused of disrupting[REDACTED] to illustrate a point. This was not my intention. Esn (talk) 12:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Just to let casual onlookers know, the result of the AfD for Pokémon (subculture) was keep. Esn (talk) 10:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The hidden comment

I know I screwed up big time. I should have added the hidden note UNDER the redirect note. But I said that if I was reverted I would discuss it, so now that I'm watching, I will gladly discuss.

Look at this:

<!-- If you like/love or dislike/hate Pokémon, this is NOT the place to express it. We are an encyclopedia, not a forum for expressing disaffection. Thanks. ->

This would be great for one of the first few lines. It might need rewording if you want.

But think about it. Even when Semi-Protected this article is still being vandalized a lot. Most of them are "Pokémon is for faggots", "Only a loser likes Pokémon" and bullshit like that.

I apologize for using such a strong word, but I really think that's the best way to describe such vandalism.

Anyway my point is, I think the note is needed, because I'm sick off "Pokémon is for loser/faggots" vandalism. And Semi-Protection isn't stopping it from coming. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 01:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Then request full-protection for a bit. -Jéské 01:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Last time I checked that should only be used when there is a huge edit war going on. I really think that the hidden note is the best solution. Tell you what, if I get no objections before Monday I will add it on Monday. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 01:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Full-protection is also used if semi-protection is ineffective at curbing vandalism (example: Mudkip and its associated pages). -Jéské 01:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll be more specific, I think that idea isn't gonna work out because there are plenty of good editors editing this page. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't change the fact that I don't find the problem big enough to have that protection, besides this isn't a discussion about whether or not the page should be protected, we are discussing whether or not this hidden note should be here. And I don't get you, your comments give me no clue whatsoever whether or not that note should be here. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 19:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, we had a comment line like that some time ago, but I can't remember why it was removed. Anyway, add it if you want to. I don't think there's any harm in it, even though it won't stop most of the vandals of course. As for the message itself, maybe you could add some more WikiLove:

<!-- 
Hi, and thank you for your interest in the Pokémon article. 
However, if you like/love or dislike/hate Pokémon, this is NOT the place to express it. 
Please note that ALL your edits are logged and looked at. Thanks.
--> ...article begins here.

How's that? - Face 13:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't like that wording, the first line is quite weird. How about this?

<!-- If you came here to express your personal opinion about Pokémon please go somewhere else. This is an encyclopedia not a fansite, any changes like that will be reverted. Users that continuously come back here to express their opinions could be blocked -->

Well, the old one kinda sucks, disaffection? What the hell? I'm sorry, but I don't really like the first line of your version.

Ok, this needs more discussion. Tomorrow isn't good enough. We shall not add it to the article unless we can come with something we all can agree on. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 14:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea, but it won't change anything. Because of the increasing popularity of Pokemon, someone is bound to try and come here and vandalize the article. And what's stopping the vandals? Everyone knows that this site can be changed by anyone with internet. Unless you put on a full block, nothing will really help.65.223.58.226 (talk) 22:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I have merged the in my opinion two best sentences and added a third one. I think the message should: 1. be short and simple; 2. make clear that you're being watched; 3. mention the consequences. How about this:
<!-- If you came here to express your personal opinion about Pokémon, please go somewhere else. Note that ALL your edits are logged and looked at. If you make unconstructive changes, you WILL be blocked. Thanks. --> - Face 10:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Perfect. Al right, added it. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 14:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

You keep clean language right now! 
Pokèmon stuff on Misplaced Pages is not opinional expression. 
If you're going to do that, do it on a fourm. 

how's that? Huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikidude57 (talk • contribs) 12:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I personally like the current one better. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 20:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Pokemon glitches (Missingno.)

I SERIOUSLY think Missingno should have its own article right now. It isn't identified as a glitch for most pokemon experts (like me)! We must take action or suffer! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikidude57 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

If you're such an expert, it shouldn't be much problem for you to find a source. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 21:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Blazikenmaster, you are rude. Wikidude57 Pika! 22:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

See this: WP:No personal attacks, I was just pointing out that you need to show reliable source in order to make it have its own article. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 22:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The only way to get this notable enough is to find reliable sources, oh and try not to call anyone rude for any reason in the future, instead discuss why you disagree. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 22:18, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Missingno (and its incarnations throughout the series) once had a page with the rest of the Pokémon game "glitches", but the article lost an AfD argument. -Jéské 21:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that Missingno should have its own page, but I am definitly up for adding some more information. Some pictures would be nice also. There is a picture from a website, although it is just one of those "post whatever you want" sites. I'm not sure if I can say the name, so I won't. I copied the picture, and could easily refind the artist. But don't misunderstand me, Missingno appears on the art as it does in the game. I also think that reearch should be done on why there is a missingno. This may be speculation, and I'm terriblty sorry if it is but if someone wanted to research it then I would like to help them, but I read somewhere (it may have been a chatroom for what I remember) that Missingno is required to fill in the #000 space before Bulbasaur, etc. Once again, sorry if it is speculation.--TriCheeseSorrow (talk) 04:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

First of all, welcome to Misplaced Pages! As for why MissingNo appears: in short, it's just a bunch of player data stored at the wrong place, putted there when viewing the demonstration of the old man in Viridian. MissingNo means "Missing Number". There are several sites about this issue, this one for example being one of the best known. Indeed, like you said, MissingNo doesn't deserve an article, just like the other glitches and most of the Pokémon in my opinion. It does have two paragraphs though: one at the Pokémon video game series, and one at the Pokémon Red and Blue article. Interest for these sections has runned out, so if you would like to write some info, your help is greatly appreciated! As long as you keep it constructive of course. - Face 19:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Distinguish

A very common occurrence and seems to happen frequently between the two series is confusion of the distinction of one from another. Would anyone object if i added {{distinguish|Digimon}} to the top of the article? Simply south (talk) 16:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind. -Jéské 04:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't confuse the two, but I can see how other people might, so perhaps the tag is appropriate. Useight (talk) 17:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Giratina and the Sky's Bouqet: Shaymin

I have found that the actual title for the 11th movie is Giratina and the Sky's Bouqet: Shaymin. However, I appear to be unable to edit the article. Could someone please change this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grasspuff (talk • contribs) 19:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, Grasspuff. I think you mean the following article? Giratina to Sora no Hanataba: Sheimi. There have been some dispute about the title, so moving the article is currently disabled. Editing the article is still possible though, so I do not understand why you should not be able to do so. Cheers, Face 08:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The reason of the move protection is that "Giratina and the Sky's Bouquet: Shaymin" is just one of many fan translations of the Japanese title. There has not yet been an English title released, and there likely won't be an English title until next year. Because there is no official English translation of Giratina to Sora no Hanataba: Sheimi, the Japanese title is the one being used in the article's name. Unfortunately, some people did not seem to understand this and so the ability to move the article was disabled for all members. There is no edit protection or semi-protection that I am aware of, so you should be able to edit the actual article without any problems. MelicansMatkin (talk) 15:13, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Bulbipeadia....

Bulbipidea has alot more stuff than this artical should we ask bulbipeadia if we can use some of their artical. Poohman0 (talk) 02:24, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

More stuff on what? That project, no offense, practically lives on what this encyclopedia would consider cruft.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 07:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Further, Misplaced Pages and Bulbapedia have incompatible licenses (we cannot use material that is CC-by-SA-NC). -Jéské 06:51, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I noticed how there are two different pronunciations shown. The second I don't think is valid, because 1) it should be the same as the japanese pronunciation and 2) because the acute grave on the é is not pronounced with a hard "E" (ee, or IPA: /i/) Someone want to check that over? Sparky-sama (talk) 03:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The right pronouncion is the one in the anime. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 09:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

That being said. I don't think I've ever heard in the Japanese (or English) series of the second pronunciation with /i/, Maybe there was one person or so who pronounces it like that, using nonstandard Japanese pronunciation, but, unless the main seiyuus are using a constant articulation, I don't really know how the second can really be valid? That being said, in other languages (ie: Chinese) it is pronounced as "pɒkimɒn." I dunno, maybe I missed something.Sparky-sama (talk) 16:31, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages good articles
• Social sciences and society good articles
• Old requests for peer review
• All unassessed articles
• Spoken Misplaced Pages requests