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• WP:AE

Requests for enforcement

Click here to add a new enforcement request
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}. Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following: All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction. The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may: ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email. Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template. A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted. Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies: The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and: the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or the restriction was an indefinite block. A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction: a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE, a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN, a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA. Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped. Standard of review On community review Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption. On Arbitration Committee review Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if: the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process), the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action. The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction. This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator. Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state: Appeals by sanctioned editors Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may: ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision; request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org). Modifications by administrators No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below). Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. Important notes: For a request to succeed, either (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue. Information for administrators processing requests Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give. A couple of reminders: Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request. When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X". Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it. More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated. Closing a thread: Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days. Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct. You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages. Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log. Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

Teachings of Prem Rawat

All Rawat articles have been placed under an editing restriction:

3.1) The Prem Rawat article and all related articles are subject to an editing restriction for one year. No user may revert any given changes to a subject article more than once within a seven day period, except for undisputable vandalism and BLP violations. Furthermore, if a user makes any changes to a subject article, and those changes are reverted, they may not repeat the change again within a seven day period.

Please check if the following edits by Will_Beback (talk · contribs) and Pergamino (talk · contribs) violate the restriction:

Will_Beback (talk · contribs)

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Teachings_of_Prem_Rawat&diff=290830285&oldid=289629502
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Teachings_of_Prem_Rawat&diff=291928410&oldid=291851722

Second diff restores identical wording to that established by the first diff, 5 days after the first diff.

Pergamino (talk · contribs)

• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Teachings_of_Prem_Rawat&diff=291851722&oldid=290830581
• http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Teachings_of_Prem_Rawat&diff=292094376&oldid=291928410

First diff moves two paragraphs and adds material to them, and adds a new unrelated paragraph. Second diff moves the identical two paragraphs as the first edit, but summarises them to just a single, shorter paragraph. Edits are on successive days.

Thanks. JN466 13:01, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree that both users are in violation of the restriction with respect to the removal or addition of the "Former followers" section. Pergamino even briefly undid his offending revert in reference to the restriction at but then re-did it again at . I have blocked both users for 24 hours in accordance with the enforcement provision at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat 2#Enforcement.  Sandstein  16:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I have also preemptively requested community review of the matter at WP:ANI#Prem Rawat enforcement action.  Sandstein  16:52, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

DreamGuy

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

Declined. Editors requesting enforcement refused to answer questions per intructions at top of page: "Please be aware that as a user requesting arbitration enforcement, it is your responsibility to supply all information required for administrators to determine whether enforcement is required, as described in the instructions. Your request may otherwise be declined without further action". Linked incivility provoked, mutual, and insufficient for blocks. Warning left with DG. KillerChihuahua 17:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

User DreamGuy (talk · contribs · count · logs · email)
Block Log Block log
Case: DreamGuy 2
Remedies violated: Behavioral editing restriction
Policies / Guidelines violated: assume good faith, civility, disruption, edit warring and Etiquette

Proposed Enforcement: 1 Month block followed by Compulsory Mentoring (4 months) and a Topic ban from AFD (2 months to be extended as required by Mentor) - _{Altered by Promethean - 12:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)}

Diffs

Uncivil comments directed at User:Colonel Warden:
Uncivil comments concerning or directed at User:Varbas:
Denigrate remarks concerning or at User:Varbas:
Uncivil comments directed at User:MichaelQSchmidt:
Denigrate remarks concerning or at User:MichaelQSchmidt:
Uncivil comments directed at User:DGG:
Uncivil comments directed at User:Nacl11:
General Uncivil comments including trolling in various AFDs and discussion pages:
Examples of DreamGuy not accepting consensus of AFD and continuing to edit war on articles:
Removal of Reliable Sources
Unwarranted editing to change the context of specific entries on his arbitration enforcement page
_{Note: List compiled from thread at WP:ANI}

Selected edit summaries of interest

• 16:17, 25 May 2009 Richard von Krafft-Ebing ? (removed bad edit that interrupted flow of sentence (leaving a fragment) and falsely claims that another edition that clearly had the main name of Psychopathia Sexualis supposedly had a different name)
• 16:14, 25 May 2009 Vampire ? (remove massive POV pushing with editor choosing cources that fundamentally change definition of vampire to cover unrelated creatures due to sloppy research by unreliable sources, per WP:UNDUE)
• 01:46, 24 May 2009 Talk:Vince Orlando ? (Undid revision 291810342 by Ron Ritzman (talk) nonadmin trying to do a close but violated policy and can't count votes)
• 15:19, 23 May 2009 Moll Dyer ? (some of the worst edits on Misplaced Pages are dedicated AFD Keep voters putting garbage info and unreliable sources/link on pages -- cleaning up)
• 22:06, 22 May 2009 Steven Van Slyke ? (?Highly Cited Publications: really stupid to have a subsection called this)
• 21:52, 22 May 2009 Pazuzu ? (Reverted 1 edit by 76.113.39.176; Who? and who cares?. (TW))
• 16:13, 22 May 2009 Elizabeth Báthory in popular culture ? (this is about pop culture, don't need a WP:FORK of the main article discussing history -- and removing amazingly bad POV-pushing, point linkspam)
• 15:55, 22 May 2009 Ivanhoe ? (?Plot Summary: plot tag - wayyyyyyy too long)
• 19:11, 20 May 2009 User talk:DreamGuy ? (Undid revision 291129609 by Colonel Warden (talk) rv wikilawyering nonsense by problem editor)

  Accurate assesment of post left by C.W. IMO. The post was harassment, and was correctly removed. It is regrettable that DG did not withold comment, however, as he did not, I second his synopsis of the situation. Feel free to contact me should you disagree; however, accuracy is not incivility, and ColW. should stop pestering DG. KillerChihuahua 16:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments by Promethean

DreamGuy has recently come on the radar at ANI for having a spate of violations of our behavioral policies, despite being under a behavioral editing restriction imposed by the Arbitration Committee. I feel that given the recent diffs above and extensive block log that he has totally forgotten or disregarded this. It seems most his disputes are AFD related. I feel that this editor can still be a great contributor, However AFD seems to cause him allot of frustration and this is evident by the frequent uncivil remarks to or about common AFD participants. I think that mentoring for 4 months and a ban from participating at AFD for 2-6 (as determined by the mentor) months will be highly beneficial for this editor and help get him out of the drama cycle that his causing him to feud with other editors. I also request a 1 Month block for the non AFD related conflicts such as the use of inappropriate and derogatory edit summaries as seen above   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 09:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Reply to Comments by Verbas: I have re-assessed the block log and have increased the block duration to 1 month given the nature and quantity of the violations, I agree with DGG that 6 months in one enforcement is too harsh, would be an excessive leap and length therefore being punitive. We have no reason to think he is using more than one account, So a checkuser would be an intrusion on his privacy for no reason and a violation of our checkuser and privacy policies.
Reply to Comments by DGG: A mentor will be able to watch over him and hopefully defuse conflicts before they get out of hand. Having someone you know and trust tell you that you were out of line is easier to accept then some admin that you don't know and he may be more willing to listen....if you know that I mean. I also feel a mentor would be able to point out the wrong things as he is editing instead of letting them all build up into the pile of diffs you see above.
Reply to Comments by DreamGuy: For starters, You will do well to respect WP:AGF before you make denigrate remarks against Arcayne, the IP or myself. Making unproven accusations against the reporter at ANI in a bid to gloss over your blatant breach of your sanctions reflects poorly on you and proves that you have no clue as to what this is about. Noting that I am the reporter of this WP:AE thread, The IP at ANI has next to nothing to do with your actions or with this Enforcement request. Now I'm not a professor, but HTF can an edit summary be taken out of context or in a misleading manner? Address the complaint, not the people or you will just be making a bigger hole for yourself. Also, one diff showing non-action at another AE thread for you is not proof that Arcane, and again is an AoBF
Reply to Further Bad faith Comments by DreamGuy: Your whole block of comments consists of childish finger pointing, smear campaigns and ad homenium attacks on other users in good standing, all of which are violations of your arbcom imposed behavioral editing restriction. I find the concept that you think I have a vendetta against you because you disagreed one AFD laughable to say the least. I also wish to add that following Varbas around saying he is a sockpuppet (when there was no conclusive evidence) on every forum is Wiki Harassment (a indef blockable offence)  «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 15:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments by Varbas

Short blocks (such as the 48 hour block proposed by Promethean) have been proven to be an ineffective deterrent to DreamGuy. He has so far faced 23 temp blocks, and yet here we are discussing numerous serious violations of an almost identical nature yet again and again. I request that the rulings, as passed on 16 October 2007 and 18 February 2008, be strictly enforced.

Per Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/DreamGuy 2:

• DreamGuy is subject to a behavioral editing restriction. If he makes any edits which are judged by an administrator to be uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith, he may be blocked for the duration specified in the enforcement ruling below. Passed 4-0 at 17:14, 16 October 2007

• DreamGuy limited to one account: DreamGuy is restricted to using one and only one account to edit, and may not edit as an unlogged-in IP. He is to inform the Committee of the account he has selected, if not DreamGuy, and must obtain the Committee's approval if he wishes to begin using a different account. Passed 9-0 at 21:28, 18 February 2008

• • Enforcement by block: Should any user subject to an editing restriction violate that restriction, they may be briefly blocked, up to a week in the event of repeated violations. After 5 blocks the maximum block shall increase to one year. All blocks are to be logged at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/DreamGuy 2#Log of blocks and bans. Passed 4-0 at 17:14, 16 October 2007

Comment - The enforcement ruling states that "After 5 blocks the maximum block shall increase to one year". I count 23 blocks against DreamGuy, 11 of them since the 16 October 2007 enforcement ruling was passed.

Comment - Proposed Enforcement: 6 month block followed by Compulsory Mentoring (3 months) and a Topic ban from AFD and talk page discussions (12 months to be extended as required by Mentor) I further propose that a CheckUser confirm that he is complying with the limit of one account. Varbas (talk) 11:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment by DGG

It;'s the edit summaries that bother me the most. The last block was for one week. The next one should be for something like 4 weeks; going to 6 months now is escalating much too rapidly. An AfD topic ban for a month or so beyond that seems reasonable; There's an existing 1rr restriction, which should be extended another 3 months from now . I am not entirely sure what benefit mentoring will do. I know there is a feeling of frustration in dealing with this, but considering that he and I often oppose each other, I wouldn't want to suggest longer than I did. A warning that the next step will be 6 months at least might have some effect. He can do good editing, and I don't think we want to lose him. DGG (talk) 11:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment by Arcayne

I concur with Promethean's assessment, and would go further in suggesting that the edit summaries are more indicative of DreamGuy's approach to editing than to that behavior incited or sparked by any discussion or any user. I've had a lot of interaction with DreamGuy, most of it unpleasant. At first, I was willing to accept the irascible behavior, as it might have been subject- or user-specific. Unfortunately, this is who he is (at least on wiki), and he has served to alienate dozens of admins and experienced editors. He has chased new users away from the project. The escalation in his block history, and the temperament of his user/user talk pages clearly indicate that he simply doesn't think he's wrong. Ever.
It is because of this that I am not optimistic that mentoring will work with any sort of short time frame. We cannot fix DreamGuy; we can only protect the project from behavior which is clearly becoming more problematic. Yes, he makes some good edits, but what to do when these edits are consistently barbed with edit summaries or character assassinations that do nothing to improve the editing environment that we all have to work in?
Varbas has pointed out that the AE decision:

The enforcement ruling states that "After 5 blocks the maximum block shall increase to one year". I count 23 blocks against DreamGuy, 11 of them since the 16 October 2007 enforcement ruling was passed.

DreamGuy knew what these enforcement restrictions were, and yet violated them four-fold anyway. Varbas suggesting the alternative of six months followed by mandatory mentoring is charitable. These edits, seen singly, are just little fish, but collectively, it's a whale-sized school of fish, all doing exactly the same thing.
Will mentoring work? I'd like to be an optimist and say maybe, but I was born a little west of the Enchanted Forest; the only change occurring with DG is going to come when he wants to change. He doesn't appear to want to, so I think we should impose the AE ruling, and give the user some time away from the project to develop other interests and gain new insights. When he comes back after that year, he might be a happier person. We need to arrest the behavior for the good of the Project. - Arcayne () 13:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Response by DreamGuy

It should be noted that Promethean is merely cutting and pasting a complaint at ANI by an IP editor who made those accusations as their first edit, and which is now undergoing sockpuppet investigation as being User:Varbas/User:Azviz/etc., a blocked user who disrupted AFDs and wikihounded me through several socks accounts. Apparently Promethean didn't look into the links very well at all, as they are just accusations of bad behavior taken out of content. Arcayne similarly has a long history of filing false accusations to try to get me blocked. Before taking these claims at face value they should be looked into with a critical eye. These are people who already made up their minds that they want me blocked and are willing to come up with any justification via cherry picked and misleading edit comments taken out of context.

I'm going to respond to the specific complaints here, but since it's basically throwing everything against a wall and hoping something will stick, it may take a little bit here. DreamGuy (talk) 14:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The basic problem here seems to be that some people feel they can make any sorts of accusations against me but don't want to be called on their own bad behavior. I frequently handle spammers, POV-pushers and the like, and they don't just happily say, "OK, I'll be good now," they start coordinated campaigns of wikihounding, reverting, etc. and complain that it's somehow uncivil to mention that their edits can't stay because they violated NPOV or introduced spam or whatever. Anybody who cleans up after these kinds of bad editors are going to met with loud complaints. It's coordinated civil POV pushing, and often not even civil.

• Regarding claims of uncivil comments to User:Colonel Warden, he was warned about harassing me and those posts were me pointing out that he should stop such tactics.

• The alleged uncivil/"denigrate" comments directed at User:Varbas were my pointing out in AFDs to closing admins that the account is extremely likely to be a sock of blocked user (User:Azviz/User:Wordssuch/User:Esasus/etc.). It seems like people ought to be aware of this. This isn't idle claims, this is supported by multiple editors and investigated by the sockpuppet investigators. We should not let sockpuppet votes sway AFD discussions and results, but it's up to th closing admin to weigh it all... which he can't do if he's unaware of it.

• The alleged uncivil/"denigrate" comments directed at User:MichaelQSchmidt don't seem to be anything worth reporting here. I disagreed with him on an AFD, and I pointed out that a line he told Varbas to use, claim he was found "not guilty" of sockpuppeting, was false, and he told me not to post to his talk page yet continued to post to mine with extremely aggressive comments, even after I finally told him to follow the same expectations of civility he demanded from me. This shows me offering more tolerance and leeway to him than he offered to me.

• Apparently my being uncivil to User:DGG was saying "Pshaw"?! His tone there, while not raising to a level worth complaining about, was more confrontational than mine.

• And my being uncivil to User:Nacl11 was pointing out that anything without reliable sources in a BLP must be removed???

• And the person reporting my alleged uncivil behavior at AFDs starts out by calling it "trolling," which is highly uncivil language right there, but the links posted there actually show me acting pretty reasonably in general. The first link there was my response to User:Azviz who was a sockpuppet of multiple users and had gone through and nominated for deletion a whole slew of articles I had originally created just to target me. His sockfarm was identified and he was banned. The next ones are me quite patiently explaining things quite civilly at first, and then later responding to people who had been both deceptive and highly uncivil. My responses there were quite reasonable considering.

• The alleged "not accepting consensus" was no such thing. I do sometimes make WP:BOLD edits, but whenever a genuine consensus is shown I back off, regardless of whether I think it's right or not. That's what editors are supposed to do. Just declaring there was a consensus that came along later doesn't mean my original edits were bad.

• The alleged "removal of reliable sources" is a disagreement over what counts as reliable sources. Once it was more than just one editor insisting they were reliable I let consensus of two people, such that it is, stand. I do not believe photobucket.com and a press release reprint in a local paper count as reliable sources. The editor who put those there had similar kinds of sources removed by other editors on other pages undergoing AFDs at the time, so the edit seemed in line with consensus I was seeing on other pages. Another editor (one who usually joins the first in voting Keep on AFDs) came along and undid it. I won't edit war with them, so it stayed. That's what editors are supposed to do.

• As far as "Unwarranted editing to change the context of specific entries on his arbitration enforcement page" goes, as far as I am concerned, I was just adding context so people didn't take claims made against me there at face value. I did not remove anyone else's comments there. What I added was factual, and people can read and make up their own mind. Apparently some editors think defending myself with clear, calm and neutral languae is somehow a bad thing?

Are my edits perfect? No. But the comments were at least at the same level of civility as the comments directed at me, if not more civil, and in many cases far more civil. And considering the level of hounding going on by a banned editor and some others who have gone to articles I've edited to revert all my changed regardless of the content of those edits, I think I'm doing pretty well.

Arb sanctions should be about improving behavior on Misplaced Pages. Continually blocking me isn't going to change anything... in fact, as we have seen, it only escalates things, as several editors see ArbCom as a way of escalating conflicts with the goal of getting me blocked if I rise to the baiting. If the goal is to improve behavior, the actions of the people complaining should be looked at here. I think the 1RR restriction I agreed to (and it was voluntary, as I could have just waited an extra 24 hours or whatever on a block and come back without it -- I chose to do it because I sincerely thought it would help) has gotten me to use third opinions, noticeboards, and otehr editors' assistance a lot more often instead of trying to take on bad edits all by my lonesome. DreamGuy (talk) 15:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

And I finally figured out who Promethean is and why he is so set on trying to get me banned. Apparently he is upset that I objected to him non-admin closing an AFD as allegedly having consensus for "Keep" when there wasn't even a majority of votes there that called for "Keep"ing the article. He got all upset and said he wants to see me banned from AFDs, and this is part of his strategy toward that end. When a brand new IP editor first started making these accusations on ANI, he ran with them and strongly resisted anyone looking into that IP for being a banned user. And he also doesn't have a lot of room to be complaining about other people for incivility. DreamGuy (talk) 15:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Response by MuZemike

Over the past six months, Esasus (talk · contribs) has been actively engaging in a campaign to bait DreamGuy into edit warring and incivility. The user, now indefintely blocked for sockpuppetry, has incorporated, to date, five separate socks to engage in this baiting; another sockpuppet investigation is going on right now as I type regarding four IP addresses, all of which are reverting en masse DreamGuy's edits (see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Azviz and Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Azviz/Archive). The previous post to ANI against DreamGuy was one of these IPs, and this was the IP's first edit.

With that being said, if consensus determines a block is necessary that the length of it be reduced as at least one user has been active in baiting DreamGuy into such behaviors. Thank you, MuZemike 15:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment by Colonel Warden

Here's another example which further demonstrates the problem. The article Co-training was not perfect when User:DreamGuy encountered it but it had a source and seemed a reasonably NPOV account of a technical matter. User:DreamGuy tagged it for improvement but then, one minute later, tagged it for deletion too. In the ensuing discussion, two editors supported the deletion proposal and so a band-wagon started rolling which might easily have resulted in deletion of the article. Fortunately, User:Fences and windows exerted himself to turn this around, bringing this article an even better state and establishing a consensus to keep it. In this incident, DreamGuy failed to follow sensible deletion procedure, was rather uncivil and generally failed to add any value to the project. In putting a valid contribution at risk, he acted without due care and attention. This seems to be typical behaviour and he resists suggestions to behave better. So, per WP:DISRUPT, a topic ban from AFD seems appropriate. Colonel Warden (talk) 16:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Decision discussion

In fairness, the ruling limits the first five enforcement blocks to 1 week, and he has had only two or three clear ArbCom enforcement blocks since the ruling. That said, he can be blocked for longer for his general record. A two week block is fair and reasonable here. More than that, I think is debatable. An AfD ban would also I feel be useful, but there is no scope in the case ruling for imposing one. AE is for enforcement of existing remedies, not imposition of new ones. Per Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Fringe_science#Motion_to_clarify_the_interpretative_role_of_administrators, this should be sought by an ArbCom clarification or community request on WP:AN/I. There is enough evidence here to seek an Arbitration clarification+amendment I think. I will hold off imposing a two week block here while this is discussed. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 14:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your input Deacon, I shall ask the Arbitrators for clarification as to if alternative sanctions such as page (in this case WP:AFD) are applicable.   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 14:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Please see my response above... I think looking into both the actual edits and the context of the edits show much ado about nothing and nothing justifying any sort of block. I have to ask the Deacon if he looked into the actual edits or assume from the long list of accusations that when there is smoke there must be fire. DreamGuy (talk) 15:19, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• Comment: Col Warden has been harassing DreamGuy, for which I have warned him. He has been baiting the bear; I strongly advise any and all comments and links for "incivility" to him should be examined extremely carefully. AGF does not give editors carte blanche to hound and persecute editors who are under sanction, something which Col Warden would be well advised to keep in mind. Remember our goal is to benefit the encyclopedie not wage war, which Warden has been doing. I have been debating taking stronger measures against Col Warden for his harassment of DG, and this action confirms that he is more interested in "punishment" than dispute resolution or improving the encyclopedia. Puppy has spoken. KillerChihuahua 16:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
• Second comment: Arcayne has been even worse than ColW in his hostile pestering and harassment of DG, and has also been warned by me regarding this. Arcayne lied prepeatedly regarding an interaction with DG and another editor, and revised his position only after I had caught him. I have no respect for Arcayne's ethics; he blew me off with a DG is a problem editor which excuses my behavior type attitude. Another DG stalker pushing the envelope. Relevant discussion here, although that is only part of it. KillerChihuahua 16:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Absolute and utter bullshit, KC, Not only have I never lied in any discussion about DreamGuy, but it bears pointing out that you are the one who blew me off when I discussed the matter with you. Get your facts straight first, and stop the bullshit. Allow me to ask you a very simple question: is DreamGuy's behavior worthy of a block or not? Instead of attacking the witnesses, maybe you should instead focusing on what is being reported. confirmed. To the arbs, I have no problem with anyone examining my interactions with DG; I am confident that I haven't done anything wrong here. - Arcayne () 16:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

This may be the case, however I fear in DreamGuy's poor handling of AE request alone (such as smearing other users reputations as a form of defense) that the hole is now 10 times bigger than what it was initially.   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 16:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

To what specifically do you refer, please, when you state "smearing other users reputation as a form of defense"? Thanks - KillerChihuahua 16:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

badfaith and uncivil Remarks such as "And I finally figured out who Promethean is and why he is so set on trying to get me banned" or "... doesn't have a lot of room to be complaining about other people for incivility" both of which are just 2 examples on this page where he has violated his editing restriction. This will likely become a full blown arbcom case and in all honesty, I fear that DreamGuy will come out worst off than Arcayne or Col Warden   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 16:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Its fairly well establihsed that there is considerable ill-will between the two of you. Do you have any examples where you see DG smearing anyone as a defense? That DreamGuy has civility issues is not at issue here - but you are claiming motive, and I wish to see something substantial, and not merely your assertion. Thanks - KillerChihuahua 16:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Wrong. DreamGuy's civility is indeed at issue here. Stop the distracting bs. Focus, please. - Arcayne () 16:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You have misread me: I am not arguing that DG is not uncivil. That is what is meant by "not at issue" - in my question to Promethius. What is at issue in my question is his assertion. Please stop inserting yourself and allow others to answer my questions. KillerChihuahua 16:58, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

(after ec) Ye gods, Promethian, you called him a coward? Yeah, I'd have to agree, the incivility goes both ways. May I suggest your feelings are running a little too intense to be impartial here? KillerChihuahua 16:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Do not put words in my mouth, I siad the ad homenium attacks is a cowardly thing, not that any user is. I find it amusing that I have only had 1 other encounter with DG and that was a couple of days ago and I'm accused of have "ill-will". Perhaps your over looking that DG is a disruptive editor who is rude and uncivil and cries about people ganging up on him when someone reports him for civility violations. I'm not your secretary (and i have better things to be doing at 2:30 am), If you impartial merely reading this and the amendment page should show at least 6 examples of ad homenium arguments being used as defenses. If I am not impartial you are clearly here just to be a Fanboi for DG   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 16:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Totally uncalled for. Hipocrite (talk) 17:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Mmm, If I was DG how would I get out of this one....I know, LOOK ITS A TAG TEAM!   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 17:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Stop digging. Hipocrite (talk) 17:03, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

To Promethian: Are you actually accusing me of acting in concert with DreamGuy in this? That I am part of a tag team? Be clear. Assert it, or strike your innuendo. KillerChihuahua 17:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Nah, I just found hipocrite's sudden involvement interesting. Almost as if your trying to run editors of the rails.   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 17:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

This page has been on my watchlist since I edited it here. I worked with DreamGuy from a long time ago, and I have the utmost respect for KC having been involved on both sides of her decisions. Hipocrite (talk) 17:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I presume you meant "you're" as in, you are. That being the case, who is "you" and who are you accusing of tag teaming? Again I strongly request you either be specific or you strike your insinuation. I've asked one question of you three times now, and this is the second time for this one. I'm beginning to think you're trolling me. KillerChihuahua 17:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You may ask questions, doesn't mean I have to address them. However I can see this is going no where... Also, You should know better than to bait people by using an innuendo "I think your trolling" remark   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 17:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, given that response, I can only assume you are trolling me. KillerChihuahua 17:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Please AGF, Discussions can get very heated. Again, stating that someone is trolling is trolling in itself. Please read the essay "Do not feed the trolls"   «l| Ψrometheăn ™|l»  (talk) 17:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I'm well aware of his rudeness. However, that does not justify allegations of motive without clear evidence; saying someone's actions are cowardly are impying they are a coward, at the very least. your accusations notwithstanding, I have asked that you provide a link which has some indication of evidence. I am well aware of DG's tendency to insult others; there is a difference between that and doing it as a form of defense however. KillerChihuahua 17:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

There really doesn't seem to be a problem here... at least, not with DreamGuy. He could be a bit more civil in two of the Edit Summaries, but considering the baiting, the language used by detractors above, and the fact that I've seen much worse, I really don't see a problem (with Dream Guy, from what's been posted here). Verbal chat 17:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Armenia-Azerbaijan remedy thing

Not gonna take the time to fill out a form or whatever, because I know nothing about the topic and don't care enough to, but there's been some edit warring this year on Iğdır that's evident in the page history, and I've now blocked one editor, Abbatai (talk · contribs), twice due to AN3/edit warring complaints. The content of the edit wars looks like it it focuses on stuff like this, which looks like might possibly be part of that Armenia-Azerbaijan arbitration thing, but I dunno. Anyway, thought I'd drop it here and let others more well-versed in the topic deal with it. Cheers. --slakr 13:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)