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15 January 2025
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Caca

You have deleted a post by me with no explaination. Can you explain. The previous deletion got no explanation either even though I asked for one more than once. Is this your policy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cakebread (talk • contribs) 13:32, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Cakebread. The person who deleted the entry before actually already gave you explanations: it is a circular non-link and a non-article. What this means is that the Caca page is a disambiguation page, and disambiguation pages are supposed to adhere to the guidelines described here. In short, the entry should lead to an article, and it should not be a mere dictionary definition. I will remove the entry once again. Please do not restore it—unfortunately, there is no way to make it work, as dictionary definitions belong in Wiktionary, not in the encyclopedia. Also, on a slightly unrelated note, please mind the three revert rule—no one is supposed to do more than three identical reverts to the same page in a 24-hour period. Please don't hesitate to contact me or Bkonrad should you have any further questions, and I hope your next experience around here will be a tad more pleasant :) Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 16, 2011; 14:59 (UTC)
How can it lead to an article when you delete it faster than I can write an article for it to link to. If you leave it alone I can link it. This is stupid. This is supposed to be for information right? So why delete it? there is nothing wrong at all in including it.
Why don't you delete the latin discription as well then? The two are the same.I do not see a difference here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cakebread (talk • contribs) 15:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
chinese anti cancer association does not have an article either. can this and the latin discription be deleted then? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cakebread (talk • contribs) 15:44, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
You cannot write an article about your entry for two reasons. First, the link you included in the entry points right back to the disambiguation page on which the entry is placed (which renders the link inoperative). Second, an article which only says something like "Caca is Old English for something round" would also be deleted, because articles are not supposed to consist solely of a dictionary definitions, per this. You need to go to the Wiktionary with this, not here. Misplaced Pages is supposed to include information, true, but not any and all information.
As for the Latin description, please notice that it is included in the "see also" section, not together with the main entries. Also, it leads to a quite valid and informative article on Latin profanity, which is a subject in and out itself. There is no similar topic to which your Old English definition could be similarly redirected.
And on the Chinese anti-cancer association you are quite right; thanks for pointing it out. I have deleted that entry as well.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 16, 2011; 16:17 (UTC)
Thank you for explaining this more fully Ezhiki. older ≠ wiser 17:57, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
No problem.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 16, 2011; 18:07 (UTC)
Libcaca also has no link.
The latin profanity are also just dictionary definitions of various latin words so why are they allowed? My link would also go to an informative article but I have spent so much time with this bit the article isn't finished.
So are you saying it can go in the "see also" section?
CB 22:50, 16 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cakebread (talk • contribs)
Libcaca is OK because it is not a dictionary definition and because it meets the conditions set by the guideline dealing with the red links on disambiguation pages. Your entry was not a valid link (so it could not possibly meet those conditions) and it was a dictionary definition, which are explicitly disallowed, be it on disambiguation pages or as "articles". As for the Latin profanity article, it is not just dictionary definitions of various Latin words. It is an overview of Latin profanity in general, along with the list of words illustrating the subject, each of which has background information in addition to the dictionary definition.
To answer your question, if you manage to write an article for which academic coverage approaches that for Latin profanity, and if the word "caca" can reasonably be expected to serve as a redirect to that article, then yes, you can add a link to the "see also" section. Note, however, that the article should be encyclopedic and about a notable subject. If you are working on something like "list of Old English words dealing with shapes", that won't do. That's not an academic subject, and it will be deleted rather quickly; because of this. At any rate, entries to disambiguation pages should normally be added after the article is written, not before, unless compelling, obvious, or easily explainable reasons exist to do otherwise (and even then editors who are not as liberal with the disambiguation pages as yours truly would likely disagree). Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 17, 2011; 03:30 (UTC)
I wrote the article. It was then deleted within a millisecond (Speedy) with no reason given.
I GIVE UP!!!!
This is clearly not what is advertised. i.e. Anyone can input. Well..you can but it will be deleted straight away.
I won't be adding content again as I have already wasted valuable time on this. ::::::Knowledge is for all and as far as I can see, here, it is being supressed.
CB 14:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
If the article you mean is cakebread, it was deleted because it was perceived as vandalism. I don't know anything about that surname, but I can see how the article in the state you submitted it could be perceived as vandalism. What you needed is a better reference to support what the article was saying—the only link you gave was to a website which does not qualify as a reliable source by a long stretch. Surely you should know of an academic, verifiable source to support that article? If you could point me to such a source, I can help you format and reference the article properly.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 17, 2011; 14:14 (UTC)
The article was entitled "Cacabred" with 2 websources. Other sources would be added as well as more information later on.
Cakebread was also deleted some time ago for no good reason.
CB 19:40, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Cacabred has not yet been deleted; it is up for deletion. From what I see, unless you add sources which are truly reliable (as opposed to two random website of dubious quality), deletion will be the outcome. If this last name is so ancient as you are claiming, surely you should be able to add a reference to a book or two as opposed to the links you have provided so far?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 17, 2011; 19:55 (UTC)

The links are realiable actually. I have lots more to add. But, I was unable to access it. I check just now and It is "back"! however. this still doesn't solve the constant deletion of Caca. Which, if it is deleted, I am unable to link of course. The amount of time I have wasted here could have been used to complete my work, links and references.

Icons for the task forces

Hellow! I've found more suitable icons for all task forces, and hope you will implement them soon in the template. Also, I wonder, if there is any possibility to fix the size of icons, so that all of them have the same width in the banner? GreyHood 20:03, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I've missed this thread indeed. I'll take care of the icons (and research the width issue) next week. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 18, 2011; 22:36 (UTC)
No particular need to hurry. See you after the weekend. GreyHood 22:38, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello again! Thanks for changing the icons. I have few more proposals to improve icons and task forces, see them at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Russia. GreyHood 16:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I've created the pages for the splitted science and technology. GreyHood 20:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing everything. Hope in near future there will be no need to change the entire structure, and we'll have to do only minor tweaks, such as changing icons when better ones are ready. GreyHood 22:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
As long as there is no need to change the parameters (like removing "scitech" and replacing it with "sci"/"tech"), these changes are actually pretty easy to do. But anyway, I too hope that we are done with this at least for a while :) Thanks for your help as well. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 21, 2011; 22:18 (UTC)

Krai

Dear Ezhiki, you probably are right that OED has Krai (Russian term for one of administrative subdivisions) etc, but it also then should have Krai in Buryatian, Mongolian, Chinese, and a hundred of other languages, all known only to the people intimately connected with their native languages. For consistency, the various linguistic expressions for the "Territory" are converted in English WP to an accepted English non-exotic equivalent, in this case Krai => Territory, this is routinely done with all local designations of the admin divisions, titles, ets. that have a well-established English vocabulary. I only followed the WP routine. Barefact (talk) 20:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

You know, consider this. Misplaced Pages has been around for ten years, and the articles about various Russian subdivisions (as krais, oblasts, okrugs, etc.) have been around for at least seven of those years. You don't think that in all this time, today you are the first one to consider why that is? :) This matter had been discussed years ago, more than once, and every single time the outcome was to use the proper loanwords. Yes, it is OK to refer to oblasts as "provinces" and to krais as "territories" in passing where the entity status is of little concern (a newspaper reporting, say, a plane crash in "Novgorod Province" is fine, because the topic is the crash, not the intricacies of the administrative divisions), but we stick to precise terms when we discuss the actual subject matter or where the subject matter, pardon the pun, matters.
Besides, I don't think you understand what kind of havoc you'd wreak by switching to generic terms everywhere. Heck, consider my last edit before I noticed your moves—would you care to explain in generic terms how Leningrad Province was created as a result of a merger of five other provinces and was originally subdivided into nine district which, in turn, were subdivided into districts (and which in turn were also subdivided into districts, but I omitted that part as it would be too much detail for that article)? How will you discuss the switch from three level administrative divisions structure in the early RSFSR to a two-level one, if the only term you have to refer to all three levels is "districts"? How would you distinguish between the 18th century provinces (провинции) and later oblasts?
You are also wrong to assume that the OED includes all kinds of junk. It does not. They have an involved and thorough routine which is followed before any word is included, and I assure you the OED does not contain "hundreds of" Buryat, Chinese, or who knows what else words. Only the words which have been shown to be used in English (i.e., only those which are supported by numerous citations) qualify. We do the same. Things like oblasts and krais are just fine, and things which are not we do change (the articles about the uluses of the Sakha Republic, for example, were moved to "districts" precisely because "ulus" is not an English loanword but rather a straight transliteration of a Russian/Sakha word).
The Misplaced Pages routine is to discuss the moves which are non-obvious—in many cases you'd be surprised to learn just how many reasons exist to do things the way which may not make 100% at the first glance. All that's needed is a second glance. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 18, 2011; 20:26 (UTC)
Please do not move any more of these articles without consensus. I disagree with this move too. Nanobear (talk) 21:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Trezhbon, Czechoslovakia

Dear Ezhiki, Happy New Year!! I've been working on a translated Russian airborne regiment article (108th Guards paraborne regiment (Russia)), and one of the towns involved, mentioned during the Second World War, is Trezhbon (due to planned mergers, mentioned at ru:7-я_гвардейская_десантно-штурмовая_(горная)_дивизия as Трежбонь). Can you give me any guidance at all on which town this might be? Very much appreciate any assistance you might be able to give. Buckshot06 (talk) 17:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I am not 100% sure, but I think what you are looking for is Třeboň, which is usually called "Тршебонь" in Russian, but is occasionally referred to as "Трежбонь".—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 21, 2011; 12:57 (UTC)

Popular pages lists

This is not exactly urgent, but still I want to discuss it now. The bot compiles PP lists monthly. So perhaps there is some sense in creating PP lists for task forces before the end of February. I think it may be interesting even if we don't assess a majority of WP:RUSSIA articles by that time. What do you think about that? GreyHood 23:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, with only a handful of articles in almost every taskforce cat, it's almost easier to look the most popular pages up manually, one by one :) At any rate, I can help setting these up, but I haven't yet looked at what it involves. Let me take a look and I'll let you know if I see anything that may complicate matters. Or, you could probably start the work on the PP lists yourself—I don't suppose there is any admin work or complex markup involved? Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 15:32 (UTC)
Perhaps I could, if no admin work is required. Just hint me where to start. GreyHood 15:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Also, I propose to use the File:Russia coa.png as icon for the History task force, because I've found nothing better, and the birch bark document looks bad at low resolution. Could you change it as well? GreyHood 16:05, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
I've changed the icon. As for setting up the popular pages, requests (one per each taskforce) should be submitted using this form. Note that once the popular pages are set up, it would mean additional hassle should we decide to merge/split more taskforces. That was another reason why I wanted to wait, but if you are sure we are done with the structure, please go ahead and submit the requests. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 16:09 (UTC)
Hm, I am almost sure.. Well, let's better wait until we assess more, you've convinced me. Also, I've made the background of economy icon transparent: File:Russian Gold Coin.png, change it in the template please. I'll see if I could deal with the background of matryoshka image.. GreyHood 16:36, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Meanwhile, I've made a better icon for Religion, comprising the four traditional religions of Russia: File:Religions of Russia.png. GreyHood 16:54, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
But what of atheism? It's not a religion, of course, but it is in the scope of the task force...
I've changed the econ icon, by the way.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 16:59 (UTC)
Also, if this icon is to represent the religions of Russia, the cross probably shouldn't be Latin.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 17:02 (UTC)
Well, atheism has no common symbol as far as I know, and it is not a religion strictly speaking. Of course we should include it into the scope of the Religion task force, but we can't add it to the icon. As for the cross, I'll try to change it. GreyHood 17:04, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
No, it's not a religion, but, strictly speaking, you are not making an icon to represent the religions, but an icon to represent the scope of the taskforce :) As for the symbol, this is probably the closest to a universally recognizable symbol of atheism that can be found. And another one that the icon does not cover is Slavic Neopaganism.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 17:09 (UTC)
I've changed the cross. I'm not sure that Slavic Neopaganism has more followers than non-Orthodox Christianity denominations in Russia. Anyway, there are adherents of every possible religion in Russia and we can't reflect all them in the icon. Orthodox Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Judaism are considered Russia’s traditional religions, legally a part of Russia's "historical heritage" - that's a line from Russia article, and that's why I think these four should be on the icon. As for the atheism, we could insert the Atom symbol onto the icon, of course, but is it worth doing so? We could possibly have, I believe, very few atheism-related articles, such as yet unexisting Atheism in Russia, while we'll have hundreds and thousands of articles about various temples, religious leaders etc., related to the religions. So I propose not to include atheism in the icon, but mention it in the scope of course. GreyHood 17:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Also, technically it is better to have either 4 or 9 symbols on the icon, and while we likely couldn't have 9, we have to choose 4. GreyHood 17:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
You are probably right about the neopaganism, but I disagree with your assessment of atheism. By different counts, the atheists comprise from 15% to 60% of Russia's population, and whatever number is right, it is certainly on par with the major religious denominations. And that we have so few articles to fall into scope of atheism in Russia is more of a testament to the condition of WP:RUSSIA in general and to the fact that atheism-related articles are of a different nature than those related to religions. There's a lot that can be written about the history of atheism in Russia, its current state of the matter, the clericalization of the country, pseudo-sciences which are becoming rampant, philosophy, lifestyle, and so on and so forth. Not much in terms of temples and leaders, true, but still plenty to cover.
Of course, there are still technical questions left (about how to fit the symbol, and what symbol, into the icon). You are right on that point. Let me sit on it for some time and if I can think of a better solution, I'll let you know. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 18:09 (UTC)
Atheism icon is not used by Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Religion, nor it is used in the Pluralism symbols on Commons. However, if you insist on the inclusion of File:Atom of Atheism (lowres)-Zanaq.png, I could try to add it, but we need one more symbol to have at least 6. We could use something related to Slavic paganism, but I'm not sure what to choose. GreyHood 18:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Why does it have to be six? We could have three in the top row and two in the bottom row (kind of like Olympic rings).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 18:32 (UTC)
That requires a bit more effort, but technically possible of course. I'm still unsure about the inclusion of non-religion among religions.. By the way, what do you think about the idea of changing the name of task force to Religion and philosophy (changing the parameter to "belief=yes")? I've intended to include philosophy to Languages and literature, but perhaps it is better to combine it with religion? Then we could include not only the atheism symbol to the icon, but also anarchism, marxism/communism, and Pax Cultura? With the File:Sun symbol.svg for traditional religions we'll have 9 symbols. GreyHood 18:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, I always thought that philosophy is a science? I can see how some philosophies can be considered to be "beliefs", but certainly not the way the traditional beliefs in gods are? Not all philosophies explain the world in supernatural terms like religion does. Do you have any reservations about putting philosophy under "science and education"?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 19:10 (UTC)
Oh, I've missed that obvious option for some reason. OK, so do you agree to use 4 "traditional religions", the Sun symbol, and the Atom of Atheism in the icon, the total of six? Seems a good solution. GreyHood 19:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Sound reasonable. But will you mind re-doing it if I think of something better later? :)) Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 19:38 (UTC)
Re-doing is OK, but just remember that I'm not very good with image editing, and can't perform complex effects on the images. GreyHood 19:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Join the club :) I promise to keep it simple.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 20:02 (UTC)
Here is the file File:Religion in Russia.png. GreyHood 20:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! I already added the previous version, and since the file name has not changed, no other changes are necessary. I appreciate all your help with this!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 21:03 (UTC)
But I've changed the file name this time, so that we could have both files on Commons. It's File:Religions of Russia.png vs File:Religion in Russia.png. GreyHood 21:07, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Ah, crud; thanks for pointing it out. I'll make changes shortly.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 21:12 (UTC)

Tweaking task force parameters

Sorry for possible creation of even more work for you, but I believe the faster we'll deal with it the better.

Look at Talk:Ice hockey. We see the line WikiProject Canada / Sport there, while only WikiProject Russia below. For some reason the similar effect as with WP:CANADA happens only in case of Technology with WP:RUSSIA (see, for example Talk:GLONASS). This better be fixed somehow and sometime.

What is more urgent is that we still haven't assessed too many articles and can simplify task force parameters, so that to make assessment a bit easier.

  • For example, in the case of WP:CANADA they have just "sport=yes" and not "sports=yes".
  • We could also change "langlit=" to just "lit=" (literature will fill a vast majority of the scope anyway, and "lit" also hints to language, though vaguely).
  • Also we could think how to simplify other long parameter names, "humgeo", "physgeo" and "perform". If there are any good ideas, better change them to shorter variants. I could perform the reassessment myself, if you agree to change something. What do you think? GreyHood 21:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
The nested descriptor screw-up is totally my own. I inserted the parameter into the tech taskforce section, but forgot to carry it over to the rest of the sections. An easy fix, but the catch is that it seems that the nested parameter is only supported for the five taskforces built directly into the banner, not for the ten additional ones supported via a hook. To cut the long story short, we can pick and choose the five taskforces for which the descriptor will be displayed (right now they are tech, demo, langlit, art, and perform); the rest will have to do without.
As for the alternative parameters, I've added both "lit" and "sport", but the old ones will continue to work as well (so we don't need to do any re-assessments right away). As for humgeo/physgeo/perform, I unfortunately can't think of anything to replace them with at the moment. I'll keep them in mind though.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 22:02 (UTC)
By the way, not all WikiProjects find short parameter names useful. WP:MILHIST is the most illustrative exception, with such parameter names as "Russian-task-force" and "Ancient-Near-East-task-force".—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 22, 2011; 22:06 (UTC)
That's really good that parameters can be fixed so easily, thanks! As for the descriptors I just propose to change obsolete "demo" with new "sport". And I've edited the matryoshka image so that to make it transparent and larger as icon: File:Matryoshka_transparent.png. Hope this finally ends our work with icons, unless accidentally we encounter better icon candidates. GreyHood 22:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
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