Talk:Salafi movement - Misplaced Pages

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AnonMoos 03:01, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

That's good advice in general, but there do not seem to be any special conditions regarding the editing of this page. Normal[REDACTED] guidlines apply here and unregistered users may edit the article and expect their contributions to follow the wp:BRD guidelines. Edaham (talk) 05:33, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

You can archive this if you want -- it refers to there being a high number of "drive-by" editors at the time (many with limited English skills)... AnonMoos (talk) 07:10, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Al Azhar should be removed from the lede

Al Azhar as an institution has historically opposed Salafism. Therefore it should not be in the lede. It is confusing and inaccurate. Jorgensen William (talk) 12:28, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, many references treat Salafism as synonymous with Wahhabism. This should be included in the lede as well that Salafism is a synonym of Wahhabism. Jorgensen William (talk) 12:29, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

On Salafi identity @VenusFeuerFalle

@VenusFeuerFalle Merzdad Izady is a Kurdologist. His occupation is that of an ethnographer and his main focus is on Kurdish studies. He creates blunders in his religious and sect view which is biased by his Orientalist Outlook. His area of expertise is only on language, culture and ethnicities. Religion isn't his area of jurisdiction and makes simple mistakes on his "statistics" on religions all across West Asia. Another practical reason is, Salafism isn't a "sect" rather a manhaj/Way. Many adherents to this Path/Methodology don't use it as an "identity" , although some do make it as an identity in certain scenarios. All Salafis identify as "Sunnis" or "Muslims" and most of them emphasize only these two identities. So I hope I clarified why I deleted this earlier, I am deleting it again. If you have a doubt/confusion do reply. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 18:25, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

About the identity of Sunnism and whether or not Salafis are Sunnis or a seperate branch is something up to the Muslims themselves. Others also refer to Salafis as something seperate. Look for example at "Richard Gauvain" and his work "Salafi purity ritual". Especially since the Salafis are way too different from pre-Salafi Sunnism, it is necessary for reseach purpose to distinguish them from other strants within Islam or Sunnism. Differentiating between "a way of interpretation" or putting it in simple words of English language "sect" is ungrounded. (Also it is also referred to as a Movement within Sunnism. So the article already acknowledges your point) There is no dubt or confusion. I totally understand, that the self-identification of Salafis is, that they are Sunnis and that Sunnis are merely following Muhammad and the his closest companies. You don't have to "clarify" me about that. I udnertand, I just object it. But this is far from reality and not backed up by any serious study. If you need a closer look on what Sunnism is from the point of research, you can also just check Sunnism. The same issue we have here, is discussed overhere. I just translated this from German Misplaced Pages about a week ago. It was written by a researcher on Islamic studies. And Merzdad Izady seems to be totally in line with the rest of Researchers among Orientalists, Islamic studies and so on. Further, even if Salafism is "just a way of life" or "method", it does not chance the fact, that this "method" (we say "sect" ore "Movement" despite the negative connotation in everyday language, since it has no negative connotation in academic language) spreads through other contries. And Merzad is just making clear, taht Salafism "identity" (including their teachings) are spreading through the Muslim world. I do not see how this is wrong. Or even how your point makes this claim invalid. I mean, lets say Salafism is "a path". When, the "path" is spreading instead of "the sect" or "the movement". So what is your point about this? I also noticed you removed even more stuff and I misclicked. Of course I will restore the rest removed content too, as long as there is no grounded objection about this.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 00:22, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

If you are affirming the existence of a "Salafi" sub-identity within the Sunni Denomination, even then the statistics are totally wrong. The statistics say there are "50 million Salafis" across the world. This is simply untrue. There are about 1.6 billion Sunnis and out of that, just 0.05 billion "Salafis"???? This is hilarious. This is misrepresenting the statistics of those who adhere to the Salafi methodology. As I stated earlier, those who adhere to the Salafi methodology, most of them identify as Sunnis" or "Muslims", not explicitly as a "Salafi". So this is inaccurate. Also ,Izady thinks Wahhabism is synonymous with Salafism, another blunder. He writes in his statistics Salafi/Wahhabi. Incorrect. Majority of Sunnis view "Wahhabi" as a Sunniphobic slur. And, not every Salafi may be influenced by Ibn Abdul Wahhab. This statistic is just a blunder, totally out of touch with reality Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 05:31, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

VenusFeuerFalle and Shadowwarrior8 do we know where the stats here come from exactly? Were there surveys conducted in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, or does this come from a census? Secondly, the source seems to believe that Salafis and Wahhabis are exactly the same, but there are sources that say that Wahhabism is a particular orientation within Salafism.VR _talk 16:40, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I see, this is a good point. When he equates Salafism with Wahhabism when the statistics are too low. We should elaborate the source further and maybe adjust the terminology (hanging Salafis to Wahhabis?).--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 17:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I have no idea from where Izady got his sources. Izady makes many basic mistakes in his religious surveys I can show many examples, such as in his surveys in Syria. I think he's just assuming what he knows and putting it into a map. Since government surveys as well as other international surveys contradict this as well. If he is referring to "Wahhabis", no supporter of Ibn Abdul Wahhab would identify himself as "Wahhabi" since Ibn Abdul Wahhab's core teachings involved not being attached to mortal personalities. If he's referring to other various Salafi grps such as Ahl I Hadeeth, or Salafiyya in general they too would shun the word "Wahhabi". And they use the word Salafi in so far as to distinguish their methodology from other General Sunni currents such as Deobandism, Barelwism, Maturidism,Asharism, etc. To suggest Salafis are opposed to Sufism/Science of spirituality is equally misleading. The other currents say they are the "true Sunnis" while Salafis would insist that they are the correct Sunnis upon "the way of the Predecessors". It is just an internal slogan, but in front of non-Muslims their first identity would be "Muslim" and "Sunni Denomination". These are very misleading surveys and to suggest "Salafi" trend is just 7000 in Morocco is hilarious. Out of 1.6 billion Sunni Muslims I would say a billion are Salafis whether they identify as such or not. In general it is confusing in laymen terms since most laymen listen to all scholars Asharis, Maturidis or Salafis. Most of them view this as a academic dispute not as a daily life/cultural difference such as Sunni/Shia or Christian/Muslim or religious/irreligious etc Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 16:56, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@VenusFeuerFalle You stated on reaching an agreement Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 17:04, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes we should reach a consensus here. I am now inclined to agree with you. Let's try to find some sources which go into more details. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to do it myself. Let me further investigate that exactly the author did. When I come to the same conclusion, I agree to remove it.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 17:59, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I see, some souces use polls from 2009. This is clearly outdated, since Salafism increased significantly over the last decade. You are free to remove them (in my opinnion).--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 18:06, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 03:54, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

ALERT: page under constant Vandalism

The page is under constant vandalism for the past few days by various IP addresses and trolls. I had to undo many of them. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 12:10, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi Shadowwarrior8, page has been Protected for a period of one month. Kiro Bassem (talk) 21:55, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

👌 Okay, User:Kiro Bassem Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 08:51, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

ALERT: page under constant vandalism

Page under constant vandalism by various trolls and users, at present one named Tun9966 . Constant disruptive edits.

User:Diannaa User:Kiro Bassem

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 09:01, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

The page is semi-protected. Removing the admin help template as there's nothing more for an admin to do. In the future, please report vandalism to WP:AIV. Katie 16:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

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