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Talk:Alpha Kappa Alpha

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Former good article nomineeAlpha Kappa Alpha was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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August 4, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
November 5, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
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Current status: Former good article nominee
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To-do list for Alpha Kappa Alpha: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2023-01-30


Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
  • Article requests : Expand national presidents (low) make pages for the founders (top) (1),  Done expand the history, ask sorority headquarters for EAF and ESP images from website (fair use images) Get a picture of Miner Hall (public domain), expand lead section
  • Cleanup : Citations (i.e. Should the period go before the citation or after?) After
  • Copyedit : Article needs to be copyedited to see if grammar flows smoothly.
  • Expand : 1930-40 National Health Office (1950-1970) grants and information after the war; (EXPAND ACHR to 1950-1970)  Done Programs and NPHC Involvement(NPHC is merged into the 1920s-1950s section of the article), incorporate pictures into article once the history section is finished. List of Alpha Kappa Alpha sisters needs to be updated. Done List is FL. Miranda 03:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge : May merge community service into history
  • NPOV : Hazing incidents ... California. (in 1990s section)
  • Stubs : NPHC History
  • Update : Main programs of Barbara McKinzie's administration for news about the program.
  • Verify : Citations and expand Marjorie Parker's books in References
  • Wikify : delete repetitive links. (i.e. don't hyperlink Alpha Phi Alpha if the organization is hyperlinked in the beginning {{Alpha Phi Alpha}})
  • Other : get a peer review/GA review and a newly updated assessment. Once stable, nominate for the release version. Get FA assessment when done. Get a pic of Rankin Chapel's Founders Window and pics of community service.  Done Already a featured article. miranda 06:15, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Priority 3

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AKA Review 2

Hi. This article is ok I think, although with my strong opposition to self-sourcing, I might want to get a second opinion on that

  • The vast majority of the artilce is sourced to AKA websites or books published by the AKA. Generally I would like to avoid such things unless totally necessary.
The problem is that most of the sorority's history is published by AKA. However, I have incorporated other sources, such as Delta Sigma Theta's history, The Divine Nine, etc. Miranda 07:07, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I might be a bit outspoken on that so I'll aska few other ppl. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • The use of self sourcing is usually ok for sentences describing annoucements, eg, "AKA announced it would do...." but I think it's prefereable for fact statements like "AKA did ...." since now we are dealing with real fact and not just statements of intent, which are the official pov of the organisation. So I think getting more independent sources where possible is good.
Or say, the sorority is planning? Miranda 07:07, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
That is what is preferable. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • There are some POv phrases in the main body, perhaps due to importing from AKA sources
  • "the sorority serves all mankind "
  • "An interested member can join through undergraduate chapters at a college or university" a joining info in the lead might appear to some to be canvassing for RL memberships
  • "Alpha Kappa Alpha has responded to the world’s increasing complexity and continues to empower communities through service initiatives and progressive programs relating to education, family, health, and business " this is sourced to AKA. It should be stated as official ideology. It is not necessarily reality.
This is taken out due to OR. Miranda 07:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • The prose probably isnt the greatest, but for GA it will be alright sort of. You might want to be the links of User:Tony1's page. I can pick some out of the lead.
  • "Alpha Kappa Alpha will celebrate her centennial anniversary on January 15, 2008" -> "Alpha Kappa Alpha will her centenary on January 15, 2008" - redundancies, more efficient to read
Nah, someone just entered the link. Miranda 07:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

 Done Miranda 07:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

  • "Led by Ethel Hedgeman Lyle's efforts, Alpha Kappa Alpha was founded on January 15, 1908" -> efforts is redundant
 Done Miranda 07:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • "Expansion and Initial Implementation of Programs 1920–1940":headers should not be caps except proper nouns
  • The comment at the bottom of the infobox is POV, unless attributed to AKA ideology
  • I will take that out, because someone inserted it
 Done Miranda 07:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • The AKA slogan quote should not be the opening sentence of history or any other section, it is marketingish. There'a another Linda Evans one in a lower section.
 Done Alpha_Kappa_Alpha#Centennial_Celebration:_January_15.2C_2008 Also, that is not the slogan. The purpose is important to the article, because it details why the sorority was founded.Miranda 07:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Bolding of individual programs shouldnt be there
I will de-bold it. Miranda 06:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 Done Miranda 07:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • You also made internal links to other sections of the article. I don't think that's supposed to be there
 Done taken out. Miranda 07:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • In the refs and notes sections, the italic comments aren't needed since that is the normal practice.
 Done deleted. Miranda 07:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Ref 59 is about.com which is a WP mirror. Not a RS.
 Done replaced. Miranda 07:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • In the middle, there is a list of branches which lead to EL. I don't think ELs should belinked in the middle of the text. Another is the large list of the Boules. I think it would be better if it was forked or made collapsible since this listy section subdivides the prose into two. But that 's just my opnion.
  • EAF projects is porbably better off prosified rather than as a list
It will be hard/a tad difficult to prosify.Miranda 07:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • In general, I don't think the large block quotes of glowing comments from leaders and personnel of AKA make it NPOV. I would remove it
  • Also, I think there are too many images. If the text is sandwiched between two pictures, then I think that's too much.
The 1950s-1970s portion is not done yet. :-/ Miranda 07:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Is there more reporting about AKA in the media, because an outside view of events is needed
CNN is mentioned as well as above sources. I am basing this off of Alpha Phi Alpha. Miranda 07:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll get more opinions on teh self-sourcing, but apart from that it is fine.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I was just looking and the books do have ISBNs . Could you add the ISBNs please? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 Done to some. Miranda 20:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Per my request for second opinions, people are asking for AKA source material to be noted as such in teh prose. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, it's not noted in Alpha Phi Alpha, and it's a featured article? I thought the requirements for FA of Greek Articles are grandfathered in with this article. I apologize, but there is no other sources available for Alpha Kappa Alpha's history, except the ones listed. This can be said for other Greek related articles. I said before, that the controversy section is not reported by AKA, but by other reliable sources such as CNN and another newspaper. I have worked VERY HARD on this article as well as it's list, and I would appreciate straight facts, and not wishy-washy answers. I have cited the information accordingly with CITE and the readers can match the authors with the books. Miranda 04:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
APA is front early 2006 when the standards were a bit softer than they were at the moment, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but will not do. Miranda 02:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
I have failed this article. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

So, this article can not get a better grade because there are not other sources of information? The Sorority chose to publish its own material. Are the sorces listed not good enough? If they are not I can not imagine that AKA will all of a sudden stop publishing thier own material.LivelyIvy1908 17:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Dispute

As a 13 year member of Alpha Kappa Alpha (initiated Spring 94, Alpha Epsilon Chapter-Mid-Atlantic Region), I feel the information is too much for a public website and it goes beyond what is on our national website. I feel the edits of this page or any related page should be made by a member of the sorority for clarity. I have made the necessary contacts in the sorority to review this page. Any Sorors can feel free to contact meKnicksfan4ever (talk) 15:23, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I understand your feelings on this, however, this page is not "owned" by anybody, and as such anybody and everybody can contribute to it. This is one of the main points of Misplaced Pages. If a source is available to back part of the article, then it belongs here if it is pertinent to, and advances, the article. You can make all the contacts you want with the national office of AKA, but that doesn't diminish or change the fact that everything contained here that has been cited is in the public record, and this is just a gathering point for that information, and there really isn't anything that you, me, or AKA can do about it. Justinm1978 (talk) 20:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


This is true and like you said anyone can edit it and make corrections. Not trying to shut the page down, as a member just trying to make sure the information is correct, several books under the references have been disputed as falsifying information (i.e just because it's written, doesn't make it fact). ThanksKnicksfan4ever (talk) 20:59, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Some rules. 1.) If she makes a legal threat against me, she will be blocked indef. 2.)If she continues to disrupt, she will be blocked. 3.) Your conflict of interest in the sorority may lead to biased information. Here's a suggestion, why don't you check out the books and look the facts up yourself to see if they are true? I have been working very hard for almost a year to make this an FA, and your "criticizing of the validity of this" and contacting the sorority for validation, doesn't do anything but to disrupt and waste my and others time. FYI, the sorority knows about this page and has used some images without attribution on their centennial website. Also, you can have people revert and delete information off of this page, but the information will be reverted and the page protected. Misplaced Pages is not censored by anyone. Miranda 22:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I respect the fact that you have been working on this article for a year, but your comments are approaching the level of taking ownership of the article. You also know that something this minor will not result in a page protection. You can catch more flies with honey. Also, WP:LT doesn't have anything to do with legal threats :) Justinm1978 05:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Let's see. Justin, when you are stalked by a person who is not doing anything but to disrupt the encyclopedia, let's see what you will do. I am not owning the article, and have asked others to improve upon the content. I said if she brings her sorority members to delete article content, this page will be asked for protection. Miranda 05:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, and I agree that if we get a rash of people deleting out the cited materials, then protection may be necessary. I'm just saying what I'm seeing while observing this. There is a lot of bad attitude and incivility and the impression of ownership. Justinm1978 05:46, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Justin, no one has threatened or stalked, its the internet. I'm making suggestions to help when I could have just took it upon myself and whoever to edit but I respected the fact that she's been working on it. She has not been civil and she's showing ownership like you said and it looks like its not the first time. I'm really trying to help. Didn't understand at first if you notice as the conversation continued, I started understanding better. Its a clear case of WP:BITE.Knicksfan4ever 05:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

No one is going to make a legal threat against you, it's not that serious. I said before that you did an excellent job (check your talk page). I have not changed my mind about that. After looking at it with other sorors, there are some suggestions that I would like to make from a member's prespective, this is free speech. It's not disrupting it's commenting on something that I obviously know a lot about. You deleted my contribution on the sorority's reference of Ethel Hedgeman Lyle which was fact. I've been learning a lot on here and I have found people who are willing to assist. You could also have a conflict of interest with possibly wanting inclusion into the organization. Of course, I would want to make sure all the information is correct, I didn't say it wasn't correct. I just feel that some of it needs to be edited. That's the webmaster who used the photos, BOD doesn't get involved in that, unless they need to. They have a huge celebration to plan. My suggestion to you is consult members of the organizations before you make edits or write about them, they may be able to give you some guidance, they would have more knowledge beyond a book. With all the work you've put into it, I'm sure you would agree with thisKnicksfan4ever (talk) 23:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion to you is consult members of the organizations before you make edits or write about them.
Are you joking? Miranda 23:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

No, I really think it would help you, you asked for help before concering the honorary members vs non-honorary members. Which actually some sorors still debate onKnicksfan4ever (talk) 23:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I am ignoring your "suggestions", since you don't know how Misplaced Pages works. I am tired of wasting my energy responding to these ludicrous claims, when all you are doing is disrupting the encyclopedia.Miranda 23:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for saying this since you don't know how Misplaced Pages works. I am learning fast, it's clear that you are doing this WP:BITE. No worries, I will continue to edit and contribute as a new and learning member of wikipedia. It's the internet, and it's here for information. Thanks again! Knicksfan4ever (talk) 00:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I am not biting, I ran out of patience and good faith with you since you stalked me about my real life activities concerning my interest which is none of your business and inquired about my edits. Sorry, but I am not going to continue aiding you and discussing with you, and advise you to contact some other person about improving the encyclopedia. Miranda 00:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
“ The threshold for inclusion in Misplaced Pages is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Misplaced Pages has already been published by a reliable source. ”
— WP:V
-- Cobi 23:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Not worried about the real life activities, I wish you well in whatever you want to do. I would hardly call editing an organization and subjects of which I have direct association with "stalking" that's a little too far. Will do. Hopefully, I won't run into this again. I just started out trying to figure out the issue, didn't expect to run into this. I had an easier time making it to the 3rd round of the Jeopardy auditions (smile). Trying to lighten it up a little. Thanks again Knicksfan4ever (talk) 00:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

This article reads like a history book, even the founding of America is not this long, I propose that it be shortened with only pertinent information that true researchers would want to know. This information (not all of it) would only be helpful to a person who is in the organization (which they would already know most of this) or someone wanting to join the organizationKnicksfan4ever 01:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

No. I am going for FA. See Alpha Phi Alpha to know what a FA article looks like. Miranda 01:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok I get it now, so it's for recognition (wiki awards, etc.)I see. IMHO I feel it still could be consolidated, it is quite a bit of information that wouldn't even be included if someone was to look it up in the Encyclopedia Thanks Knicksfan4ever 04:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
No, it's not for the recognition. I don't know why you would think that? It's because I feel that AKA is a notable organization and 100th anniversary is coming up soon. Your "sorors" didn't help me at all, except for Lively and two other users, so I had to go at this alone for almost a year. Again, no, this will not be consolidated. If I were you, I would help to gather more information about the sorority instead of complaining about the layout, et cetera. Miranda 04:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


Don't need to gather information it's been in my head going on 14 years. Of course I agree with you about it being a very notable organization. The history that is on the national website is sufficient. It's great information on the page, but it's overkill. Who besides someone who is a prespective member would be interested, that's reality. I think you should take the most important facts within my sorority's history and consolidate it to make it an easy read, instead of clutter. IMHO you probably didn't receive the help because of the way you initially approached the situation for assistance. There are people that are willing to help out there. You just have to askKnicksfan4ever 04:46, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Again, no. We will not consolidate the article due to your opinions. Look at Alpha Phi Alpha, a featured article. Also, be civil. Miranda 04:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't have a dog in this fight, but the Alpha Phi Alpha page says at the top whenever you go to edit it: This page is 83 kilobytes long. It may be appropriate to split this article into smaller, more specific articles. While it may be a FA, that doesn't mean it's not horribly long and could stand to be trimmed nor does it mean that this article must be ridiculously long in order to be considered FA. Civility is a two-way street. From an outside perspective, you are both reaping what you are sowing. This is not advancing the article. Of course, you could always take this to mediation.... Justinm1978 05:25, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Justin, she wants to delete the information and base the article upon the national website. I am not mediating with her. I have made edits to the article, and she is doing nothing, but saying "you have to have the sorority to approve the edits to this article or any articles relating to AKA members". That's disruptive if you ask me. Miranda 05:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I said nothing about deletion and I've been beyond civil and truly trying to help as a member a lot of members may have not been as civil to a non-member questioning there knowledge of something they know inside and out. I don't know why I'm asking you when everyone is free to edit. I have said you've done a good job, but sections like listing where all the Boules took place? You have to agree that its too much. No matter what your opinion is, I am sincere when it comes to AKA. I've seen how you've asked for help as well as had disputes instead of taking into consideration their suggestions. Happy editingKnicksfan4ever 05:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
The article is 66k now. I split a section of Boules to a separate article. Miranda 05:51, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I don't agree with "you have to have the sorority to approve the edits to this article or any articles relating to it". That's totally disruptive and doesn't make for a very good article. I've always been of the opinion that if it's published in a reliable source that a non-member could get their hands on, then it's valid for inclusion. She does have a point about including some rather extraneous material like the picture of pearls that was recently taken out, and the picture of ivy that I'm about to take out. We know what pearls and ivy look like, they don't contribute to the article. Justinm1978 06:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
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