Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Aimulti (talk | contribs) at 03:51, 11 May 2008 (→Proposed Deletion). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Image copyright problem with Image:Sabbeth.jpg

Thank you for uploading Image:Sabbeth.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Misplaced Pages takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 06:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I included the copyright information several times but for some reason it did not appear correctly. I created the image (for Chrysalis Records/Agency in 1971) but retained full copyright. I am credited on page two (bottom) of the program that the image was the cover of.

Aimulti (talk) 09:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Mark Hanau

Are you able to add information concerning the recording and release of the picture disc album Magical Love by Saturnalia which I believe was Mark's brainchild in 1973 after he ended his involvement with Curved Air ? RGCorris (talk) 11:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Dear RGCorris, I added more detail about Saturnalia (as requested). May I thank you for the fantastic job you did cleaning up this page. I'm still getting the hang of the format but have learned a great deal from you. Thanks so much. What else do you think needs adding or improving?

I added some relevant categories as otherwise you are likely to get the entry considered for deletion. One of the Wiki formatters has also had a go at a tidy-up to put it more into the standard Wiki format. As far as I am concerned with Misplaced Pages it has been a matter of looking and learning as I go along !

As I recall, Magical Love came out in 1973, but there is a reference on the label to 1969 - can you clarify why this is ? RGCorris (talk) 08:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

You are correct. It was 1973. I have no idea why the label says 1969. Do you have a copy of it?

I have a vinyl re-issue of it I bought a few years ago. I also have a scan someone sent me of the CD issue. Both have the 1969 date and as a result there are numerous internet references to it being released in 1969 and reissued in 1973, which I assume are an erroneous attempt to make sense of the dates. I had an e-mail from the bass player recently confirming the 1973 date. I don't suppose there is any part of the picture disc process which was copyrighted in 1969 that might be causing the confusion ? RGCorris (talk) 17:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

No, that cannot be the case. The disc was the old Metronome process except for a profile modification (to allow for the Vari-Vue label) and the added Vari-Vue inserts (made in Mount Vernon, NY).

I see you have set up a page for Saturnalia which quotes the 1969 release date which I thought we had decided was erroneous ? RGCorris (talk) 08:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

What evidence do you have that Mark Hanau started ALRA? Carson's obituary and most available information says she started it herself or with Ziegler. Also says she started it before you claim Mark Hanau came to help his mother in the mid 1980s. Thanks. RetroS1mone (talk) 03:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

External links guidelines

Hi. I removed an external link you had added at Lenticular printing, which led to a page with little content, but offering a product for sale. This does not comply with Misplaced Pages's guidelines. Generally, external links to sites focused on selling product are not allowed, so that Misplaced Pages does not end up being used to advertise or drive traffic to sites. For the full guidelines, see Misplaced Pages:External links.--Srleffler (talk) 04:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome

Hello, Aimulti, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on this page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Srleffler (talk) 04:01, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I got your message. I'm in the middle of working on some edits to the Lenticular printing article. The symbol to insert your username is four "tilde" characters in a row: ~~~~. On American keyboards, this is the key in the upper left corner (with shift held down). When you save the page, the software replaces it with your username and the date.

Are you Mark Hanau? If so, you should probably avoid editing the article about yourself too much. Editors are generally discouraged from writing about themselves or otherwise editing with a conflict of interest. We value unbiased writing, and almost nobody is able to write about themselves without bias.--Srleffler (talk) 04:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. I encourage you to read WP:AUTO. It appears that you wrote most of the Mark Hanau entry, and in your answer on Srleffler's page, you signed as Mark Hanau and Aimulti. Autobiographies are discouraged, and all information must be verifiable. Currently much of the Hanau entry is unverifiable. Please remember that Misplaced Pages does not provide webspace to just anyone who wishes to write about himself. WP:AUTO asks that all apparent BLP violations be reported to the noticeboard. Regards, Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 22:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 08:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

April 2008

Please do not add content without citing reliable sources, as you did to Ronan O'Rahilly.

I thought I referenced this addition but if I failed to do so I am sorry. I will replace it together with references (with your permission). The Scene in Ham Yard is so well known and the existing article mentions his running a club so I may have thought a reference was not required.

Is this reference acceptable?

http://www.offshoreechos.com/Caroline%2060/Radio%20Caroline%20-%20The%2060s%20Chapter%2004.htm

Aimulti (talk) 09:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Before making potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. If you are familiar with Misplaced Pages:Citing sources please take this opportunity to add references to the article. Contact me if you need assistance adding references. Thank you. Helixweb (talk) 03:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Every single addition (without exception) was referenced from RESPECTED sources. I checked and they all appeared correctly.

Aimulti (talk) 09:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize Misplaced Pages, as you did to Condom, you will be blocked from editing. Helixweb (talk) 03:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Dear Helixweb, I am sorry if I offend you but do feel that to call the detailed and well referenced additions 'vandalism' is unjustified. Every addition was referenced from highly respected sources like the FDA, Universities, and other sources considered reliable.

If the topic is 'controversial' (as you say) then surely Misplaced Pages should present the evidence from both sides and leave it to the reader to judge the merits of each case?

If you read the 700 odd studies on condoms, the vast majority (all but about three) cast grave doubts as to their effectiveness. Surely the real science, not the politically correct rhetoric, deserves to be given precedence?

As for the hazards of latex, the evidence of the dangers is overwhelming and to my knowledge little of it is really in dispute, just simply ignored.

Once again I simply was trying to provide useful and factual coverage and not in any way to vandalize the topic. May I present the points, one at a time, to you for review and check?

Aimulti (talk) 09:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Your information on condom effectiveness was unfortunately taken out of context, outdated, or both. Including it in the article would be giving undue weight to a tiny minority view, in violation of Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy. Latex condoms have significantly smaller pores than the study on latex gloves you cited. Furthermore, most HIV is located inside cells, which are much too large to pass through condoms. The small amount of free HIV is greatly hindered from passing through any holes by the viscosity of semen. You can read more details here, if you are interested, and in the articles referenced by that column.

Your actions were taken as vandalism because you were asked to bring up the issue on the talk page of the condom article (Talk:Condom) and instead just re-added your content to the article. Lyrl _C 21:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Below also posted to Lyrl's talk page (which is the correct location?)

Condom lattice size

Dear Lyrl,

You wrote : - "Latex condoms have significantly smaller pores than the study on latex gloves you cited. "

On what do you base this assertion? Can you provide a reference? Having worked with NRL I can assure you ALL latex has exactly the same lattice (pore) size and why would medical gloves select an inferior grade if such existed? Latex gloves have a longer dip dwell time and in most cases more coagulant dips than the two used for condoms. The formers (in terms of composition) and coagulants used are identical.

1). A paper in the February 1992 issue of Applied and Environmental Microbiology reports that filtration techniques show the HIV-1 virus to be 0.1 micron (4 millionths of an inch) in diameter. It is three times smaller than the herpes virus, 60 times smaller than the syphilis spirochete, and 50 to 450 times smaller than sperm.

2). Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) researchers, using powerful electron microscopes, have found that new latex, from which condoms are fabricated, contains "maximum inherent flaw" (that is, holes) 70 microns in diameter.

These holes are 700 times larger than the HIV-1 virus. There are pores in latex, and some of the pores are large enough to pass sperm-sized particles. Carey, et al., observed leakage of HIV-sized particles through 33%+ of the latex condoms tested. In addition, as Gordon points out in his review, the testing procedures for condoms are less than desirable. United States condom manufacturers are allowed 0.4% leaky condoms (AQL). Gordon states, "The fluctuations in sampling permits many batches not meeting AQL to be sold." In the United States, 12% of domestic and 21% of imported batches of condoms have failed to meet the 0.4% AQL.

REFERENCES

Lytle, C. D., et al., "Filtration Sizes of Human Immunodeficiency Virus Type 1 and Surrogate Viruses Used to Test Barrier Materials," Applied and Environmental Microbiology, Vol. 58, #2, Feb. 1992.

"Anomalous Fatigue Behavior in Polysoprene," Rubber Chemistry and Technology, Vol. 62, #4, Sep.-Oct. 1989.

Collart, David G., M.D., loc. cit.

AND

Carey et al.(xxii) observed the passage of polystyrene microspheres, 110 nm diameter ( HIV diameter is from 90nm to 130 nm) across 33% of the membranes of the latex condoms which they studied (29 over 89 nonlubricated latex condoms). More recently, Lytle et al., while criticizing the "exaggerated conditions" of the in vitro, polystyrene.

The condom itself is not 100 % safe. Result of examination show the following :

A condom is made of rubber (latex), a hydrocarbon compound with polymerization, which means that it is fibrous and porous like woven cloth. By means of an electronic microscope the pores of the condom can be seen in a non-stretched state with a width of 1/60 micron, while the HIV/AIDS virus has a width of 1/250 micron. When the condom is stretched the pores of the condom are 10 times as wide as that of the virus; in other words, the virus can go through the wall of the condom. The condom was designed for family planning (to strain sperm, not viruses); and a condom is not meant for fornication/prostitution.

Research carried out in the U.S. on 89 condoms in circulation on the market proved that 29 out of 89 leaked, which means that the leakage was about 30 %. In Indonesia condoms imported from Hong Kong in 1996 were withdrawn from market because 50 % leaked. In practice in the field there is often failure of condoms use for family planning because of leakage, let alone for fornication/prostitution. As a comparison, sperm are as large as oranges and viruses as large as a period (dot).

Another examination conducted in the U.S. ( the Physical Division of Human Sciences, Maryland, USA, 1992) showed that particles as minute as viruses can be detected going through the wall of condoms.

In every condom there are 0.4 % pinhole, microscopic defect in the manufacturing process. The area of the condom is 80 cm2 and if you count 32,000 pinhole in each condom, and if each pinhole is 1/1000 micron, you can imagine the total number of pinholes in a condom.

FOR REFERENCES (to above) AND TO READ THIS HIGHLY DETAILED ARTICLE go to: - www.humanlifeinternational.com/condom_facts_safe_sex_aids.pdf

If you can provide references that contradict the above I will be happy to withdraw my objections to the assertions in the article.

P. S. In addition, the article you referenced (as a rebuttal) cited no references whatsoever and thus should be considered simply an opinion. Also to claim my references are outdated ignores the fact NRL (latex rubber) is a natural material and has not ever changed (at least in modern times) in structure. The only improvements have been in the area of 'on shelf vulcanization' (loss of modulus over time-or hardening to use non technical terms). This has been improved by changing additives. The pore structure (lattice) cannot be modified.

ADDENDA

Latex glove specifications Studies done by Georgetown Medical University and the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Md., published in Nature, Sept. 1, 1988, show that latex gloves, made to much higher specifications than the condom, have pores 50 times larger than the 0.1 micron HIV virus.

Even if there were no pores in latex, in-use breakage and slip-off rates are "so high as to make condoms ineffective for protection against HIV," says biochemist and molecular biologist Dr. David G. Collart, Ph.D., of Stone Mountain, Ga.

Aimulti (talk) 03:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Didik/Varivue

The history in this article relies a bit too much on the articles on the Vari-Vue/Didik website:

• Didik, Frank X. (2001). "A brief history of stereo images, printing and photography from 1692–2001".
• "The History of Vari-Vue".

While these provide useful information, they are not independent sources and cannot be relied on as citations to support facts on Misplaced Pages. The articles also make some claims that are strangely vague, contradictory, and perhaps even misleading. In particular, they claim in some places that Vari-Vue coined the term "lenticular", and in other places attribute the coining of the term to a 1936 patent that predates the existence of Vari-Vue. It's not clear who filed that patent or how it is connected to Vari-Vue. The first article implies that this technology was developed in Russia, but isn't clear. The owners of the Vari-Vue trademark clearly have a financial interest in asserting proprietary rights to terms like "lenticular", and to associated technologies. They also have an interest in presenting the history of Vari-Vue in the most favourable light possible. For this reason, these articles cannot be viewed as independent sources in terms of Misplaced Pages's citation guidelines.--Srleffler (talk) 04:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The apparent contradiction stems from the fact the company was in business producing lenticulars for some considerable time before being incorporated as Vari_Vue.

"In 1936 the modern Lenticular image was patented and this formed the seed which led to the formal incorporation of the Vari-Vue company in 1948."

http://www.didik.com/varivue/3dmain.htm

• (Vari-Vue - the company which popularized Lenticular ™3-D, flip and motion technology , and used the word "Lenticular" to describe linier lenses , "Winkies" and others through its predecessor in the patents of 1936 and other registrations in the 1940's and 1950's).

Confirmation:-

"The company that pioneered the process in the 1940's, Variview, started by making animated political campaign badges with the slogan "I Like Ike!" and moved on to animated cards that were stuck on boxes of Cheerios".

Reprinted from the New York Times.

http://www.depthography.com/times.html

The patents (I found) were in the name Victor G.Anderson. As Kay Anderson was the president of Vari-Vue in the sixties and seventies I assume it was her husband who invented the process. See U.S. patent 2,815,310. Filing date: Mar 1, 1952

Aimulti (talk) 07:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Image policy violations

You will have to read WP:FAIR for a better understanding of Misplaced Pages's image rules. You images are not fair-use in the article in question. Let me know if you have any questions and I will have an administrator assist you. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 21:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Confused

I am confused. The images were my copyright. How can that violate Wiki policy? I can use or assign them as I wish. Aimulti (talk) 23:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC) Aimulti (talk) 23:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Your images are tricky. Hundreds of accounts are created each day to upload images stolen from the internet. I am not saying that is you. But the images uploaded typically look and are tagged just like yours.(its not too often that a user uploading a cover can actually claim ownership of the cover itself). I am not sure which details you need to include to validate your uploads. Try WP:UPI for a start. I will email an admin friend who is better versed in Misplaced Pages's complicated image use policies and see if they can assist. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

If you look at the image you will see my name is on it as the promoter (Large and clear) and small (bottom right) as the artist. The Jody Grind cover is mentioned in the 'Transatlanic Records' page which also mentions me as an artist/photographer for Nat Joseph (CEO). Aimulti (talk) 23:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Eddy Currents

I have a problem with the hypothesis that lamination's or grooves etched into the conductive material reduce Eddy Currents by blocking the flow of electrons or by causing the buildup of static electricity. The drift rate of electrons is far to slow to account for a drop in Eddy Current induction that takes place in microseconds. With drift rates in the order of a millimeter an hour or less, it seems impossible they could reduce the Eddy Currents in say a rail gun projectile traveling at thousands of feet per second, as they clearly do. While the rise time of induction in the conductive material, at first seems a likely candidate for explaining the reduction in induction, this also is impossible as in most cases it is too fast to cause much difference. The only explanation that stands up to close scrutiny is that by breaking up the overall magnetic gradient into discrete regions, the magnetic gradient in each is vastly reduced and this (in accordance with established theory) is the cause of the reduction in induction. It is possible that standing waves at the bottom of each groove (in the case of a etched conductor) add to the reduction in induction. Eddy Currents resulting from the relative movement, over time, of a permanent magnet and a conductive material are very complex as skin depth, phase shift at different depths, relative gradient over time, coupling of the gradient into larger flows due to a increase in equilibrium of the magnetic tension, harmonics and numerous other factors all play a part. In contradiction to traditional induction theory it has been established (1) that in the case of a permanent magnet moving relative to a conductive material, Eddy Currents increase quickly to a peak at around 300rpm and then decline to about 10% by 8,000rpm. This is probably due to phase cancellation and the increasing effect of rise time on the magnetic gradient differential but remains an unresolved phenomenon. (1). L. H. Cadwell, Am. J. Phys. 64, 917923 (1966) and Langman, Mikheev and Tabachnicht et al and Dr. Peter Campbell in his book "Permanent Magnet Materials and their Applications".

Aimulti (talk) 06:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Jody Grind.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Jody Grind.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. NotifyBot (talk) 15:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I have replaced this image - which I photographed and designed. I am the copyright holder as stated.

Aimulti (talk) 21:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Need images for Liquid light show page

Can anyone help provide images of leading light shows?

Angus McBain + John Vickers - photographers

HELP NEEDED. No article on Angus McBain would be complete without a reference to the fact he was jailed (for 5 years, I think) under England's (pre 1967) anti homosexuality laws. I, however, cannot find an on-line reference anywhere. Can anyone help provide one? The London Times covered the case. It would clearly be wrong to include this fact without a solid reference. I was apprentice to John Vickers who was in turn trained by Angus, so I know the history well but my word is not a reference (particularly in such regard). Aimulti (talk) 03:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

YCND

Specialist Sections info removed

RE: - "During this period (1980's) CND established a number of "Specialist Sections" to add to Christian CND and Labour CND (est. 1979), including: Ex-services CND, Green CND, Liberal CND, Student CND, Trade Union CND, and Youth CND".

This is completely wrong. All these existed in the sixties. See any issue of the CND paper 'Sanity'. I was YCND Chairman (for a short time) in the mid sixties (exact date forgotten), Chairman of Highgate YCND, Secretary of Hammersmith CND, Chairman of Hammersmith College CCND and worked full time w/Peggy Duff and Mike Kennedy at 2 Carthusian Street (and contributed to Sanity), so should know what existed and what did not. I was also involved with every single major demonstration (inc. Aldermastons) post 1962.

REF. Papers of the Youth Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (YCND), 1961-1970 and 1985-1989, including minutes of the Executive Committee. http://library-2.lse.ac.uk/archives/handlists/CND/CND.html YCND had it's own conference and leadership throughout the '60s. Aimulti (talk) 03:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

CND Symbol Semaphore debate (CND and 'peace symbols' pages)

I have added information which resolves the Semaphore debate. It is referenced in detail on the CND page and includes a first hand account from Hugh Brock (Peace News). I think it should end all debate in this regard. Aimulti (talk) 08:06, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Spies for Peace

Added detail to the Spies for Peace section of the Committee of 100 page. First hand knowledge and references from Stuart Christie's book. Aimulti (talk) 07:24, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not the only one defendig NPOV at AIDS Reappraisal

What a relief to see your post there :-)

Currently the article is so slanted that (if one forgest for a moment what we are dealing with) it is almost comical. In fact to call dissidents "denialists" is more informative to the reader about what POV monstrosity is going to find there. CU. Cheers Randroide (talk) 17:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Usertalk

Can we please keep the material directly related to improving the article on the corresponding talk page? It encourages wider participation and makes it much easier for later editors to find relevant discussions of issues which have come up before. I assure you, I am watching Talk:AIDS denialism and will respond to your points as time permits. - Eldereft ~(s)talk~ 02:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I find the article so blatantly biased and almost hysterical in its verbiage that the notion of 'improving it' seems almost comical. It has been written by 'editors' who freely admit that they don't believe AIDS dissidents even have the right to a name (even Hitler did not go so far with Jews). The article is a stain on the reputation of Misplaced Pages. I am not asking that it endorse the dissident position, in any way whatsoever, just that it be neutral and consistent with an encyclopedia NOT a religious fundamentalist style rant. Aimulti (talk) 08:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Brothels

I have started a major addition to the modern history of brothels. This is a work in progress and will take several months to complete and fully reference. Please allow me a little freedom and refrain from deletions until the revision is in a more advanced state. Aimulti (talk) 04:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Play party (BDSM) (2nd nomination)

Since you are part of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, i would appreciate it if you could voice your opinion on the article Play party (BDSM), which is currently up for deletion. --Simon Speed (talk) 22:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion

The reasons I gave, |WP:COI, "An article about a little-known band should preferably not be written by a band member or the manager." The article about Mark Hanau is written and edited by someone saying he's Mark Hanau (see comments in user contributions) and using Mark Hanau's website, aimultimedia.com. Editor has also edited or created numerous pages w/subjects he has a close personal connection to like airconditioning, saturnalia, curved air, liquid light shows, John Vickers, and Academy of Live and Recorded Arts. WP:NOTE Article does not establish notability of subject as per guidelines "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". WP:VER, claims not verifiable, some claims conflict with published accounts. Editor/subject uses as a source in this article and in other edited articles, but artistopia.com has Misplaced Pages as source. Before I deleted it, (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=NME_Awards&oldid=209579910), subject placed an image of an invitation to an awards event and represented it as an actual award. WP:SOAPBOX, Aimulti/Hanau is engaging in self-aggrandizement I think by exaggeration, has claimed to have co-founded Paul McCartney's McCartney Productions, established a school (ARLA), won awards, and met "Berthold (sic) Brecht" with no support. WP:NOTMYSPACE, editor using Misplaced Pages to showcase himself. WP:PSTS, editor using primary sources without secondary source backup, such as a college prospectus to establish he "founded" the college 'tho secondary sources give different story. WP:OR, editor/subject scans primary documents and submits them via his company website, aimultimedia.com. WP:Living Many, like example Aimulti claims an actor is his daughter without source. RetroS1mone (talk) 03:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Come on. Sasha is not my daughter. Look at a picture of her. This is getting insane. STOP IT.Aimulti (talk) 03:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)