Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Full Shunyata (talk | contribs) at 10:39, 5 February 2009. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Doug Weller is away on vacation and may not respond swiftly to queries.

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Coming here to ask why I reverted your edit? Read this page first...

Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply. If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, or I'm slow to reply, feel free to approach me here.

Talk archives:
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/February
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/March
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/April
User talk:Dougweller/Archives/2008/May

You can email me from this link but in the interests of Wiki-transparency, please message me on this page unless there are pressing reasons to do otherwise. Comments which I find to be uncivil, full of vulgarities, flame baiting, or that are are excessively rude may be deleted without response. If I choose not to answer, that's my right, don't keep putting it back. I'll just delete and get annoyed at you.

Hello Dougweller. As you know i'm Ryan (User:Ryanbstevens). Thanks for offering to encourage me. Yes, other editors are frustrated at me, and i know now to add references, sources, and categories. I do apologize to the editors. Thanks for leaving the message. If you have any more comments for me, just post them on my page like you did before. Thanks. —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC).

Luxeindia

As the royalrajasthanonwheels.co.in is only website for the new luxury train "Royal Palace on Wheels" so we have given two links. One link redirected to government offical website and one is to royalrajasthanonwheels.co.in. We would like to give information about the new train. We dont want to put our link. Please suggest us further. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.235.57 (talk) 15:50, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

It won't be notable until it gets reviews, articles, etc in newspapers, etc. Not blogs. Misplaced Pages articles are about subjects that other reputable sources have written about, so most new things can't have articles until this happens. 18:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC)dougweller (talk)

Luxindia

I would like to inform you that we have created the wikipage http://en.wikipedia.org/Royal_Palace_on_Wheels not for the promotional purposes. We have provided the information about the new product and given relevant links to the website. I would request you to please update the page or give us an approval to add the content again about Royal Palace on Wheels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luxindia (talk • contribs) 07:12, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

It read purely as an advertisement and Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia which publishes what reliable and verifiable sources have said about subjects. It had no sources other than its own websites, and to be recreated would required sources that meet our criteria here: WP:RS and it wouls also need to be notable by our standards at WP:ORG. dougweller (talk) 14:25, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

phalanx

it is me (scott) im hoplite well anyway i guess your correct on your statments and verified infotrmation is better and i have been looking on how to contact some sort of historian group or history scholars not much to go off of but do you know anything that might help me in my quest? (quest from anglo french queste an act or instance of seeking)<- just to verify i am using it in a ccorect instance not a nerdy way ya know just a more scholarly word then ending it with, help me with my search. oh and i hope there is no hard feelings hope we can be freinds (not litteraly i mean like we are okay with eachother and i can refer to you if i need help with this or somthing)--Hoplite54 (talk) 00:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Sodom and Gomorrah

The reason I posted the change, I wanted to see how long conservative truth lasts on the Misplaced Pages page of a controversial subject and what kind of PC police force Misplaced Pages has, if any at all. Unbelievable! That revision lasted only minutes!

What I'd said was truth exposed, and that cannot be bigotry.

When you'd said that I'd removed "existing text." So, what's your point? That's what Misplaced Pages is all about. Misplaced Pages encourages people on this site to add, subtract and edit content with wreckless abandon, and you have to know that already. You've made it sound like nobody can touch this page, because it's set in stone. Well, let me give you the same advice that was given to me on this site. You don't own the "Sodom and Gomorrah" page. But, obviously, the page has people watching the site so closely that it not only doesn't pay to try to edit this page, it's shown itself to be of no value to anyone seeking conservative scholarship, if I'd have chosen to include some of that on that page.

However, I have to add that in order for me to have been really legit, I did need to cite sources. If I would've added sources to my comment, then what you did would've been really wrong, because all you seem to be about is slandering, marginalizing and eventually silencing the conservative voice. Canihaveacookie (talk)

Olsson "Editors"

Hey Doug, I would like your help again. Paul Smith and another editor 'Loremaster' have repeatedly harrassed Olsson at Misplaced Pages. Time after time they have removed all positive references and sources from her Wiki page. I cannot continue to deal with these people. Is there someone I can turn to for mediation? Thank You. Alexis

Sorry

I grew up in school with BC and I'm just not used to BCE yet. I'm not doing this for religious reasons. But sorry for the edit. AaronPaige (talk) 14:57, 22 June 2008 (EST)

I sorta agree with this guy. I'm a pretty devout Western Roman Catholic and dang proud of it. I was raised on B.C., before Christ, and I don't appreciate these "threats" being made to me. And make no mistake, every time I see BCE or CE, I will change it.

You have been warned.

Jaet —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.148.126.104 (talk) 23:16, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Edit-warring against "the unofficial global standard, recognized by international institutions such as the United Nations and the Universal Postal Union"? You are asking to be blocked from editing. --Hans Adler (talk) 09:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Midewiwin

I see now that that was an unproductive edit. My apologies. ClovisPt (talk) 19:37, 2 July 2008

SmackBot

Thanks. Rich Farmbrough 10:30 21 September 2008 (UTC).

Image

Hi Doug, I was wondering if you know how where I have to go to give a reason to keep this beloved image for a GA review for Battle of Hyrba, here are the links that will help you answer my question, ], ]. As you will find out, it will be deleted tommorow, so I will greatly appreciated if you respond on my page today. I solemnly apolagize if I might have ever offended you earlier, and I want to thank you for your helping hand in previous events. I can honestly say you have helped me here more than anyone else on Misplaced Pages, a true mentor. Best regards and goodbye.--Ariobarza (talk) 23:10, 21 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

edit on Papua mythology moved out of this section. dougweller (talk) 18:01, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

You guys lost me, (are these two comments above in relation with my question) and how is this answering my question? Doug if the comments do not have anything to do with what I am saying here, tell OXQ to comment somewhere else, so please reread my question, I thank you.--Ariobarza (talk) 07:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

It's too late now, the image is now deleted. Thanks for helping me save the image...--Ariobarza (talk) 07:46, 22 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

I have been away all day being taught by an Italian chef how to cook exotic meat and game. I am afraid I only noticed OXQ's edit -- you are right, he definitely should not have done that. But looking at the links, I don't think I could have come up with a way to save it, sorry. Please though, stop the sarky remarks, they show a real lack of good faith. dougweller (talk) 18:01, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Come on... Sarky comments? Doug you know, as an adult, one should not be offended by sarky comments. This has nothing to do if I have good faith with you or not. A joke is a joke, you must evolve into a new state of conscienceness, I am always happy, and I had a smile on my face when I said that. A big smile! "Don't worry, be happy." Byebye.--Ariobarza (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza

Doug, you have been warned. ----Shadow

Egypt list

I don't personally don't update it as I am unfamiliar with it. It is Captmondo (Keith) who does the updating here. Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 21:47, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I assume anyone can update it. I certainly have added several articles this week which should be in it. I use it to check on vandalism. I guess I should check with Keith though, thank you for mentioning him. dougweller (talk) 21:49, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Indefinite IP blocks

Hey again, I noticed you indefinitely blocked the following IP addresses:

• 68.153.118.30 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 213.100.68.170 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 67.186.20.215 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

Per Misplaced Pages:Blocking IP addresses, IP addresses should almost never be indefinitely blocked (as you probably now know due to the message you recently left on my talk page). Do you have a problem with unblocking (or at least reblocking these IPs for a set period of time)? I've reviewed the history of each of these IPs and I personally would have blocked the first for a month (would be expired by now), the second for no more than a week (would have been expired by now), and the third for no more than a week (also would have been expired by now). From my understanding we should only indefinitely block IP addresses in extreme cases, such as a WP:OFFICE or perhaps an OTRS action. Thanks, VegaDark (talk) 22:34, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

I've unblocked 215, but I'm a bit uncertain about this still as I note another administrator, User:Zzuuzz put an indef block noticed on the user page it and also for 170, thus obviously agreeing with me about the indef blocks. Should I contact them to say I've unblocked? What do I do about the notices on user/talk pages, remove them or add another notice? Thanks. dougweller (talk) 06:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and you don't need to leave a message to ZZuuzz. I'm pretty sure he was just matter-of-fact tagging it so the IP would show up in the proper category. I'm pretty sure he or a bot goes through every once in a while to remove/add the indefblocked IP template from pages, I'm not sure if he reviews to see if he actually agrees with the blocks or not. Thus, you can remove the template if you want but it will eventually be removed whether you do or not. As for removing indefblock notices on talk pages, you can if you want. I don't when I unblock, since usually the pages are so scattered with warnings that I doubt it would make a difference. VegaDark (talk) 07:09, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the explanation. I won't remove them and doubt that the users involved even read the pages themselves. dougweller (talk) 07:16, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

If an IP continues to disrupt after being unblocked, feel free to re-block for whatever time you feel is justified, as long as it isn't indef (usually 1 year is the max regular block length, but a few months is a lot more common). Since they are discussing it on the talk page though, you may want to hold off unless they ignore consensus. VegaDark (talk) 16:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm holding off, but if he continues to edit in contradiction of the references, etc, I may block him again. I appreciate your advice. dougweller (talk) 17:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Sofia Shinas

Hi. I hate to drag up old stuff, but I wanted to direct your attention to Talk:Sofia Shinas#Birth Date - This may solve it.... A Los Angeles Times article seems to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the birth certificate forwarded to OTRS and the 1974 birth date alleged by it. Wildhartlivie (talk) 08:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Florentino

Doug, could you explain to me why you blocked User:Florentino floro? I would like to facilitate his unblock if possible, and I am hoping we can determine some reasonable conditions for that. Everyking (talk) 09:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

You'll need to take this to ANI. He appears to be mentally ill and no one objected to his block, quite the opposite.You've seen the discussion about his user page, also see and although hopefully you already have. Start a new ANI section on unblocking him would be my suggestion. I will oppose it given his refusal to acknowledge any wrongdoing at the very least. I don't think he is able to function as a Misplaced Pages editor, and given his threat to use sockpuppets and the earlier creation of sockpuppets, I expect some will oppose him just for those reasons. I also will say that I don't think he can work within a community on a truly collaborative basis, probably because of his evident mental problems. dougweller (talk) 12:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

What if he acknowledges wrongdoing? Everyking (talk) 17:43, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I think his problems prevent him from doing this meaningfully, for a start. Also, scroll just up from here: . He has also said he would continue editing, he has at least 3 now blocked sockpuppets (he vigorously denies this one, although it seems pretty clear that it is a sockpuppet of his). As I said, you can and more or less must take such a request to ANI, but I don't think it will fly. dougweller (talk) 19:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I am well aware of the difficulty of obtaining a consensus in that setting, particularly considering that people have taken to characterizing him as an lunatic, and I would much prefer it if you would agree to unblock him, or at least outline some conditions. Is it your position that Florentino is fundamentally incapable of functioning as a worthwhile editor and that there are no conditions in which an unblock would be appropriate? Everyking (talk) 04:58, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that is my position, but even if I felt differently I would still take it back to ANI considering the response to my blocking him. I would not consider doing it unilaterally. dougweller (talk) 06:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think your position is compatible with the some of the philosophy behind Misplaced Pages; I think it's necessary that, if someone is going to be blocked, we need to articulate reasons for that block that can actually be addressed by that person within the context of Misplaced Pages if he or she wishes to resume editing. That way, we give everyone a fair opportunity to get back in. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to articulate something like "needs to be more civil"? Florentino could then undertake to be more civil and we could watch his behavior carefully for a while to ensure that he was sticking to his promise. Everyking (talk) 07:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Did you not read the original discussion? He has been politely asked to be more civil many, many times before. He has also been politely asked to refrain from doing the things he does--adding useless trivia, prophesying disaster, threatening people with curses. Each time he was asked to, he replied with an incomprehensible rant, followed by edits that clearly showed he did not follow any of the advice. And keep in mind that people have been asking him this since 2006. Check his talk page and the archives for yourself. He was not blocked for being a lunatic but for harassment, and there are plenty of non-derogatory reasons to keep him blocked, as articulated in the original discussion and even the RfC. I realize that people are coming down hard on him in the ANI page, but that's no reason to make the jump from defending him to saying he should be unblocked. There are plenty of valid reasons to keep him blocked. --Migs (talk) 08:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

On a few occasions early in Florentino's editing history, I gave him some editing advice and he reacted positively; I was subjected to no incomprehensible rants (although, of course, I have seen him indulge in such rants when talking to others—I just want to stress that's not the whole picture). I also think we need to keep in mind that Doug's block is only the second block Florentino has ever received. It's not exactly normal to move so quickly to an indef block when dealing with a long-term, industrious editor. Isn't it reasonable to think that a series of short blocks might have helped guide his behavior? We don't know how he would have reacted because we haven't tried that approach. Everyking (talk) 09:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

(unindent) Please keep this discussion on ANI so everyone can see it. No one else wants to unblock him, and what is strange is that he only has one block. Even his response to the block shows that unblocking him wouldn't bring about a new Floro following Misplaced Pages guidelines and policies, by the way. And that blog of his... if he had a clue and an interest, he'd have wiped most of it. dougweller (talk) 10:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Protection for Hatshepsut

Dear Doug, If you please, I request some form of page protection for Hatshepsut ASAP.

• There has been massive and repeated vandalism of this article by numerous anonymous IPs: Just go through the edit history. I don't know why almost every anonymous editor has to vandalise her page...just because she was a great female pharaoh. How many times is the article going to be vandalised until no one can make sense of its content? Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:20, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Done, I've protected it in the past but they just keep coming back. dougweller (talk) 05:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for acting here. It was painful seeing all the anon IP's placing words like mother f..., btch, etc in Hatshepsut's article. It was brutal. By the way, I created this article: Feel free to place a banner or category for it. Personally, I just create articles and try to source images for them. I got the 3 flickr images from my contacts within the past two days. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 06:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
• Note: Captmondo posted a short response regarding the list here Basically, he says no problem. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 20:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm unwatching all the Egyptian stuff from my watchlist to make it easier to read and making sure it's on the AE list. Good article by the way. dougweller (talk) 22:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• You're very welcome. Since the tomb of Senenmut's parents were found intact, they certainly merited an article here. Sadly, you likely won't find one on Brittanica. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 20:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Unblock request of Lux Lord (talk · contribs)

Hi. Could you comment on that request? I'm asking because it's not immediately evident to me, judging from the contributions, that he's indeed a sock of Florentino floro (talk · contribs). Thanks,  Sandstein  08:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not dougweller but Lux Lord has many of the same speech patterns and obsessions exhibited by Florentino Floro. He also obsesses over similar topics. I'd be more specific, but Floro actually reads other talk pages and I'd rather he didn't know how we're able to tell it's him. I think, though, that a comparison between Lux Lord's messages and Floro's should suffice. Floro himself admits to having sockpuppets so this is a reasonable assumption. In any case, Lux Lord probably isn't who he claims he is; knowing quite a number of faculty at that school, I can say with reasonable certainty that Lux Lord's concerns are not something Ateneo would concern itself with. --Migs (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Laa_Careon

And speaking of Floro's sockpuppets, I suspect this might be one but I'd like a second opinion. Laa Careon. He also follows similar editing patterns and concerns, but he hasn't seen fit to deliver a long incoherent rant yet. I've also posted a notice in the ANI topic. --Migs (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he shows up about 5 hours after Floro's block. I don't understand why some people think a promise to be civil is enough in the face of all of this. dougweller (talk) 09:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Article protected for 6 weeks

I think you're entitled to an answer and/or a discussion on the application of "original research" at the RSN. Otherwise it looks rather as if we're seeing a POV attempt to block the discussion that the page is intended for. PR 18:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. As it happens, another Admin took the bit between his teeth and unblocked it. And now the article on the author is a redirect to his book, Shadows in the Desert: Ancient Persia at War‎ and that is up for AfD!. I'm particularly annoyed still that people think they can quote 'book reviews' that are just Amazon blurbs (and tell me that 'blurbs' isn't encyclopedic). There was a discussion here that was just completely ignored. Another editor has tried to fix that however. This is all basically a POV push for a particular writer, who himself seems to be aware of what is going on here and indirectly taking part. dougweller (talk) 15:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Atlantis Location

I tried to be helpful by including links to Philistines in the Crete location, and Coordinates to the Mount Sipylus under the Turkey location. While I don't particularly lend credence to either location, people examining the merits of those ideas would be better served by having links to inter-related data (eg. Keftiu = Caphtor = Origin of the Philistines, so the Philistines origin may determine the validity of the Minoan postulation) or simply coordinates for all the locations for some Google Earth amusement. I know you chimed in on the edit wars, I wonder if you have any insights regarding why these types of edits would be rescinded. It seems that Georgeos Diaz-Montexano has a strong inclination to promote the Andalusia Hypotheses... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.127.128.2 (talk) 23:17, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I have to admit that an IP editor coming along and adding coordinates without a source is pretty much fodder for reversion. Why not start a new section on the talk page first? And what did you want done with those quotes you put on the talk page? dougweller (talk) 15:58, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I will post the coordinates request in the Talk area. With regard to the quotes, many of Mr Diaz-Montexano's rebuffs against the Minoan theory have to do with the fact that Plato never claimed that Atlantis had such and such attribute. I just tried to post sections of Critias that have correspondece with the History Channel's version of events. While Mr Diaz-Montexano is technically correct, I would say that Critias's comments (in the same document where Plato has commented) count as part of the historical Atlantean cannon.

Battle of Thermopylae

Hi there, You protected this article yesterday after a content dispute. For my part, I am sorry for becoming involved in it, although I didn't really realise I was, until I was, if you see what I mean.

Anyway, I see that I am not the first to come up against Ariobarza and fail to get through. I left a not-especially-polite response to his edits on the discussion page after you protected the article, to which he responded in typically rambling , and equally not-very-polite fashion. Feeling a little guilty, I proposed a compromise (still on the talk page). However, since then I have been now exploring Ariobarza's history a bit more, and I'm not sure that changes should be made to the article purely to please him/her.

I would therefore be happy for the article to remain protected for the time-being. However, given that the current version is a mess of edits which pleases no-one, could I suggest that the whole article be reverted to this version: 18:51, 25 November 2008. This would remove all of yesterday's edits. Not because I believe that that version is the best, just better than the current version. Obviously I understand if you just want to leave the article as it is.

Thanks, MinisterForBadTimes (talk) 11:47, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I can only do that if Ariobarza agrees, I'm afraid, however much I'd like to. dougweller (talk) 15:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Seth Material

You may be interested in commenting here. Verbal chat 12:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Those are perfectly good paragraphs that have been removed. If they are no longer part of the article, other authors won't have the opportunity to add references. Since I have reverted two bad revisions already today, I will restore them after midnight.--Caleb Murdock (talk) 18:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

No, I will put them on the talk page. You can't just put them back and hope something will happen. And midnight has no significance. Nor in fact is there really a magic number 3. dougweller (talk) 18:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me, but if every paragraph on Misplaced Pages which did not have a reference was deleted, two-thirds of Misplaced Pages would disappear. Articles are not developed on Talk pages, and you know that.--Caleb Murdock (talk) 08:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Talk pages exist purely to develop articles. And there is a lot of cleaning up to do on Misplaced Pages, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is never a good argument.

If the standards that you apply to this article were applied to every article from the beginning, nothing would ever get written.--Caleb Murdock (talk) 09:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Sheer nonsense. What happened is policies and guidelines were tightened up a couple of years ago, leaving a lot of articles which have to be improved. I've only written one short article from scratch, and I wrote that all in my userspace, making sure it met Misplaced Pages standards before it was placed in article space. That's how all articles should be written now ideally. dougweller (talk) 10:04, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

You have a point, but when people see one article being held to a higher standard than many others, its quite easy to think that it is being unfairly targeted. The subpage allowing the "tenets' to be worked on until proper references have been established I think is a good solution. 70.186.172.75 (talk) 20:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I wish you could convince Caleb of that, maybe if you said something on the article talk page he'd stop thinking it was simply an attack. I guess the problem is that some people, eg Caleb, have a very narrow view of Misplaced Pages as they only work on one or two articles. dougweller (talk) 22:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to smooth things over. I did mention to him about attacks on others based on religious persuasion (or lack thereof). His approach does not encourage cooperation. 70.186.172.75 (talk) 22:48, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Could You Please Ban Me?

Could you please block me from editing? I have told myself I will stop editing time and time again because doing innocent and supposedly helpful things like adding infoboxes or persondata boxes tend to upset a lot of people here, but usually I end up adding some information anyway. Wiki-addiction maybe. Maybe if you banned me from editing it would be easier for everyone. i am not joking or being sarcastic by the way. Its annoying to get reprimanded over and voer for trying to help but kind of hard to resist editing. Thanks. 70.186.172.75 (talk) 22:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I've replied on your talk page, it would be better to ask to be adopted. Maybe you could find other outlets for your addiction. :) dougweller (talk) 06:26, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Historical Basis for King Arthur

Do you have a reliable source that says that Goodrich is not a reliable source? If so, isn't the proper response to put something into the article indicating that she's wrong, rather than to revert it? I'm not being sarcastic, I actually think that's how NPOV is supposed to work when you have conflicting sources, unless one of the sources is genuinely presenting a fringe argument. Goodrich might be "dreadful" (I'll take your word for it that you have reasons to believe so), but I'm not aware of a reason to think that she's completely goofy. I'm unreverting. Cheers. DCB4W (talk) 15:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I put a flag on the talk page for that article, if we could address it further there, in case there are other editors with opinions on the issue. I kind of liked Goodrich's book, so if there is a reason to disregard her I'd like to know that. I look forward to the discussion. DCB4W (talk) 15:32, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

moved section from my talk to WP:IPNA

Hi Dougwellwer. I just wanted to let you know that I had moved the Gender roles in First Nations and Native American tribes section from my talk page to the discussion page at WP:IPNA as it seemed a bit more appropriate there as I would be able to address some of the "Algonquian" section, but the article is more than just that. At IPNA, I have posed some additional comments for the rest of us to think about as well. CJLippert (talk) 15:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Floro's latest

Sorry to bug you but here's his latest sockpuppet. It's patently obvious that this is him. Here. He's been using it to mass revert the edits to his contributions that were made by max and me. --Migs (talk) 13:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll have to take it to ANI, it isn't obvious enough to me to block it on my own I'm afraid. And if it is a sock it still should be at ANI so others know. dougweller (talk) 13:35, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Seth Material 2

Another discussion here Verbal chat 12:09, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca head

Hi Doug, I'm really not sure of the correct procedure, but there is a little situation at Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca head involving an individual editing from an IP account who is consistently vandalizing the article, at least by my interpretation of vandalism. Of course, I may be incorrect, and the IP's edits may be in the best interests of the 'pedia, but that really doesn't seem likely to me. Could you perhaps take the time to initiate whatever process that will result in blocking this editor, or at least take a look at the article? Thanks, ClovisPt (talk) 09:56, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Editing from a Barclays Bank computer, lots of vandalism from that account and in fact I just reverted vandalism from the same address on James D. Watson, and gave an anonblock of 1 month -- just the latest of a number of blocks on that account. Whatever they were doing on the head article, they needed blocking for their other vandalism. dougweller (talk) 10:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Gracious. ClovisPt (talk) 10:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Seth Material mediation

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Seth Material, and indicate whether you agree or disagree to mediation. If you are unfamiliar with mediation on Misplaced Pages, please refer to Misplaced Pages:Mediation. Please note there is a seven-day time limit on all parties responding to the request with their agreement or disagreement to mediation. Thanks, Caleb Murdock (talk) 19:19, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I've dropped my opinion into the case as an "additional issue". Mangoe (talk) 23:09, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, some good comments there. I still don't feel I have a complete grasp of WP:UNDUE]] but I do think it probably applies to the Seth article. dougweller (talk) 06:29, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

External Link in Sheol

Hi Dougweller, I added the the external link from the article about Sheol, and it was promptly removed. The article I was linking to is a chapter in a free online book, and the chapter deals with the subject and concept of hell in the OT, specifically with the word Sheol in its various usages and contexts. I know the links are "no follow", but I thought the article might have something to offer to a person interested in Sheol and its usage in the OT. The Misplaced Pages article is low traffic, and only has one external link, so I thought I could put the link in there without a problem. What is the protocol for adding links? I've "suggested external links" before in the talk section, and too often they seem to get ignored. What do I do if I don't get a response one way or another?

Take a look at WP:RS, WP:SPS, and WP:EL. Basically links to personal websites unless they are the site of the author/subject of the article are deprecated. Ditto commercial links. If you don't get a response, I guess you can add it but don't be surprised or upset if it gets removed (we all get stuff removed, it's not worth getting upset over). I've added a welcome menu to your talk page with loads of links, and you really should get a regular account if you plan to stay around, but not everyone does. dougweller (talk) 22:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry

Hey, sorry if you think I was being rude over at the Seth discussion. I am writing here because the other discussion is getting so convoluted I am having trouble following the thread. All I meant to say was that to me pseudoscience as far as I am aware is an attempt at making something into a science which really isn't. The Seth Material is more philosophy/magic . . . it is not an organized religion, but part of a "New Age" religious view . . . a kind of mishmash of religious ideas that a good number of people hold. As usual, in situations like this, I try to help and end up getting kicked by both sides. Sorry if I lose my temper on occasion. See why I wanted to be banned? 70.186.172.75 (talk) 20:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

-) No problem, really. I agree about your characterisation of the ideas of the Seth Material, what makes it fringe is simply the psychic element. I hadn't realised until today that it is actually Caleb's religion, which I guess explains his anger and I think makes it difficult to work with him (you, on the other hand, even if you may lose your temper, are trying to work with others). Anyway, I'm definitely not banning you. dougweller (talk) 22:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

He does get a bit hot under the collar which is a pity because it seems the people involved are trying to work with him pending sources for the tenets section. The odd thing is that Roberts herself wanted to avoid having her work turned into a religion. Go figure. Take care. 70.186.172.75 (talk) 22:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Seth Material. For the Mediation Committee, WJBscribe (talk) 17:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Article splits

Interesting. I think , on or about 3 December, renamed Biblical Archaeology and made a mess of things. (The new name he wanted to give it was Biblical excavations and artefacts - which seems pretty sensible and I'd support it). I don't have the skills to fix it. PiCo (talk) 22:30, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It was the talk page for Biblical archaeology, which has now been retitled Biblical excavations and artifacts. Somehow it's been orphaned. PiCo (talk) 23:18, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Temp protect

Can you place a temporary protection on Land of Punt and give a warning to Dragonfire 123? Someone seems to be really obsessed with placing sexual 'stuff' in it from the article history By the way, that was my Anon IP which removed the 3D image here as it is a relief, not a painting or papyri which are 2D art. It has been placed for deletion on Commons. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 09:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom vote

I noticed your vote to oppose me in the election and I felt I should clear some things up. Yes, I have as an aside mentioned that I am not opposed of the idea of a parliament on Misplaced Pages. Would this affect my work as an arbitrator? No. Would I be actively campaigning for a parliament as an arbitrator or even as a regular administrator? No. Would I propose such a thing, or do I plan on proposing it? No, not even close. I give you my complete assurances that a parliament is not and will never be part of the reforms of ArbCom or Misplaced Pages in general that I seek or propose. I urge you to please reconsider your vote. Thank you. --Hemlock Martinis (talk) 17:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi Doug

Thanks. Redirect sorted now. And thanks for your earlier message. Thinking about it... Itsmejudith (talk) 16:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

read this please

this is scott. well im okay with you deleting it though i call it a theory since it is testable and i have studied history since the age of 5 and probably know more then you (no offence intended) i do know more then most people i even match the historical knowlegde of my social studies (history) teacher. im in 8th grade so he knows a good deal meaning i know more since he is only teaches part of history. i knew more then my 7th grade history teacher who taught about the greeks. so i may not have credentials and everything but hey if this is an editing site how come we cant add if it actually matters and isnt random crap and just deletings? im aspired to be a historian since age five. ive read the odessy, the illiad and many history based books that span from the ancient to medieval times and not only am i the same level of intellegence as my history teacher im in advanced so there you go as i said before im not mad im just a little confused as to why you even allow edits also how do i make an account and what does it accomplish for me? --24.44.51.17 (talk) 23:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Appietas

I left some comments on User_talk:Appietas. He is making a large number of Roman history articles unreadable. I can't even understand a lot of what he does, and I am fairly proficient on the topic. Part of the problem is the sheer volume of seemingly irrelevant information he adds (such as quoting contemporary historians in the original Greek), not to mention how disorganized his edits are. RomanHistorian (talk) 00:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Senenmut

Dear Doug,

• I am leaving this message here as a minor request. If possible, please try to 'move' or change the title of this article: from Senemut to Senenmut. (with the second 'n') You did this with the titles for the Psamtik kings. I have read Dorman's 1988 classic on 'The Monuments of Senenmut' and even he spelled this person's name with two n's--and this was 20 years ago. The same happened to Dorman's 1991 book 'The Tombs of Senenmut at Thebes.' My guess is someone started Senenmut's article here on WP with the Senemut spelling which is slightly wrong. I tried to move the title from Senemut to Senenmut and was blocked but you can use your Admin tools. I'm just aiming at historical accuracy, nothing more. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 10:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• As an Aside, please consider placing temporary protection on Ramesses I. Someone with two different anonymous IPs has been targetting it in the past 2-3 months--stripping out chunks of the article. He got blocked temporarily on 1 IP and soon used another IP...and has not been warned. If you look at the article history, I just added back a huge missing chunk which had been lost for 2 weeks. Some people have too much time on their hands! Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 10:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• That's OK on Ramses I. And thanks for helping out on Senenmut. I'lll standardise the spelling there. Enjoy your holiday in Prague. I'm currently snowed in in Metro Vancouver--the first winter storm in Western Canada! Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 23:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Sofia Shinas

Hi. I apologize upfront because I realize this is going to sound like nagging and obsessiveness, but nevertheless, I feel the need to revisit this since the article Sofia Shinas was unprotected this morning. To review, an SPA, one of a slew of the same who variously insisted they know Shinas, insisted they knew she had to have been born in 1974. When pressed for proof, one of them suddenly came up with an alleged copy of her birth certificate obtained from Shinas' brother who "who wouldn't mind" if sent it in (which raises the question of permission to release it). You protected the article because of the edit warring from the SPAs, at which time someone working in OTRS changed the article through the full protection, which you questioned here, which included my recap of the situation. Note my posting was not responded to. At that time, a question was raised on AN/I ]. After my posting, nothing further was posted on this.

The issue of the apparently connected SPAs was raised in a sock puppet case, which was closed because the page was protected, rather than the inquiry be investigated or action taken. I approached the person who closed the SSP here, which you'll note was also not responded to. Everything seems to just wither on the vine and no one seems concerned with this, although I still think OTRS was duped, especially since the following has since been raised on Talk:Sofia Shinas. An editor posted Talk:Sofia Shinas#Birth Date - This may solve it..., which included a 1992 article about an interview with Shinas from the Los Angeles Times, an archive of which exists here. The article gave a chronology that absolutely refutes the alleged birth certificate authenticity. I gave my reasoning on this here. I then contacted you above, User talk:Dougweller#Sofia Shinas.

What I'd like to know is what can and should be done about correcting this? At some point, I believe I read that at the AN/I that Lucasbfr at OTRS was trying to locate the ticket and then someone was trying to contact a Shinas representative to try and verify the birth date, but I suspect that also died a natural death. I honestly don't usually keep revisiting this sort of thing, but everything I've read and know tells me the birth certificate submission was phony, the article in the LA Times supports it, and Misplaced Pages currently supports a "fact" that is not a fact. Please help. Thanks. Wildhartlivie (talk) 11:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I have absolutely no problem with your request (other than how to answer it, minor detail) - it doesn't seem nagging. I've raised this at AN, see here: dougweller (talk) 15:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this. Wildhartlivie (talk) 15:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I second that. I originally opened the AN/I about this but had pretty much give up hope on it. If it's ok, I'm more than willing to remove the DOB because, as Wildhartlivie stated on the AN/I thread, there are sources that contradict the unverified OTRS request. From my personal memory, I know Shinas isn't four years older than me and I'd rather have no information available than false information. Do we need some sort of consensus to remove the date of birth or can it just be removed? Again, thanks for looking into this. Pinkadelica 17:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Just remove it. dougweller (talk) 17:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The long promised ban proposal

Hi Doug. After some three weeks away from Misplaced Pages, I have finally come arround to draft the proposal to ban Ariobarza (at the moment less concise than I initially expected). I still have to look into Talk:Battle of Thermopylae. You may want to take a look at it before I present it at the administrators' noticeboard (no hurry). Feel free to edit it at will. - Regards, Ev (talk) 20:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Response on Ev's talk page; Ariobarza's topic ban

Please read the entire message with an open mind, so Ariobarza does not have to repeat it.

Hi Ev, talk about deconstructive comments. I thought we had put this issue behind us. Since November 2008, I have quietly gathered sources, and minded my own business. And now you want to propose a topic ban on me? This is dissapointing. First of all, for the Siege of Gordium I have giving up, and no longer care if it happpened, because overall consensus of the users here determined probably nothing happened, and I have even agreed with them, so Siege of Gordium is over (I was not the originater of the idea, like I said a thousand times, I copy pasted the info, added 1 sentence from the Gordium article itself). And at the end of the deletion debate, I agreed to delete Siege of Gordium. This is the last sentence I said at the deletion debate; Feel free to delete, it would have been interesting if there was a siege, but guess not, nothing happened at Gordium. Bye.--Ariobarza (talk) 07:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

For Battle of the Tigris, this issue was between me and ChrisO (which I now Do Not have anything against or any problems with that user), it is not your business, I suggest not to involve yourself in this highly sensitive article which I am sure you know nothing about. I NOW have damning evidence of what I said before as the mostly the truth, yet now that I am so close to presenting the evidence, you come up with a topic ban for me, nice job.

I consider your proposal to be highly rude and disheartening at this time. You are attempting to waste my time and others for the next month over a topic ban debate on me. I am tired of waisting my time on quite frankly stupid (I don't care anymore, I said the word stupid, big deal, I am guilty as charged) and endless debates with revisionists with no lives, other than to waist others time.

Misrepresenting the issue, and presenting false information is not helpful here. I {suggest} if you have a personal grudge against me to say it to my face on my talk page. And not spread "Off with Ariobarza's head" pamphlets around the town. You stalking my movements on Misplaced Pages to see if I am breaking the rules has itself inspired me to leave Misplaced Pages. Coordinated group personal attacks on me shows how much Misplaced Pages is in danger of developing close nit gangs within its topics.

Of course its not Misplaced Pages's fault, its the fault of users that don't know squat on a subject, then when they see something they THINK is OR SYN, they jump on that user without looking or researching the evidence for it. So when Ev assumes its OR SYN, and later gets proven wrong (this time by another user who presents the evidence), Ev develops a grudge, and revenge sets in when out of nowhere a topic ban on Ariobarza pops up! A coincedence?

If you do not stop (what I consider a personal attack from you), I will never stop until your true intentions are exposed, possibly an RFC for your other menions too. You spending months on this issue to get me banned from the topic shows how determined you are to get rid of me, actions speak louder than words.

Me being not in contact with my Unofficial mentor or continueing making deleted articles in my userspace is not a violation of any law here. So with the little good faith I still have in me, I ask you to abandon this inapropriate proposal, you must either present the ancient crimes I commited here (which everybody got over) or present new evidence, which does not exist.

I am not saying you have a grudge against me, though it is a possibility. Anyways, I urge you to please stop this, and if you have any concerns with me, to come to my talk page so we can work something out, can we agree? Thank you.--Ariobarza (talk) 05:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

Ramesses II

Dear Doug, I hate to say this but it may be time to consider placing an indef. protection on Ramesses II. Due to the nature of this king's monumental rule, his web page seems to be the victim of an abnormally large number of vandalism by anon IPs according to this article's history If it cuts down on vandalism by 80% (I don't pretend it will be 100%), it's still better than nothing. Of course, you could always discuss the matter with other experienced Admins first if you wish.

• I should note that WP's article on Terry Fox, one of Canada's greatest heros is also protected since it kept attracting constant IP vandalism. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 23:37, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
• Note: I see Ramesses II got vandalised again today. A pity! --Leoboudv (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Anglosphere

Hello, there are now over 500 links to this page all over Misplaced Pages. I think most of these should be replaced with synonyms of some kind. You're welcome to comment at Talk:Anglosphere. 67.150.252.18 (talk) 07:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Newport Tower

Hi Doug. You recently removed some stuff from Newport Tower (Rhode Island) on the grounds that it is original research, or the bad kind of synthesis. I feel like some version of the material could be re-added to the article, since it is accurate, as far as I can tell. Of course, we have the problem here that we always run into with fringe archaeology, that of credible sources not bothering to deal with the multitude of wacky fringe claims. Can you think of anyway to add the basic, sourced point that astronomical alignments didn't disappear from European architecture after the Mediaeval Ages? I kind of thing it would aid the article in it's attempt to present an accurate and reliable collection of information. Regards, ClovisPt (talk) 22:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

David Trochos (talk · contribs) is the most likely person to be able to help with this. I suggest you ask him, sorry, I'm a bit, well very, busy. dougweller (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Dougweller, I am highly dissapointed with what you said about me on my ban page. I already resolved the issues, and I am in the process of doing it. This is the worst time, and it is the worst mistake to ban me. Just 3 days ago was I fine, and now I am about to get banned based on 3 elitist users opinions. They have not gave one shred of evidence that I broke any rules after my block was over, if I get banned my currently SOUrced articles will be gone too. How could this happen? What the hell did I do in the last month to deserve this? You protected the Thermoplyae battle for no reason, I resolved that issue right away with that user, and everything was fine, lies upon lies. People get banned for the worst of reasons, why me, Why me! I have 1% good faith for you now, unless you recount your statements on the page, and acknowledge that ChrisO is now proven to be hypocrite, and wrong on the Tigris battle because I now have the damning evidence that your ignoring too. Other than saying I waist time, why don't read my post once and get it over with, why prolong this dispute? With my last best regards(don't forget to respond on my page), goodbye!--Ariobarza (talk) 05:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

I have kindly accepted a new proposal by user:rouix on my ban page. Please, if you could just go there and vote yes or no for it, much appreciates.--Ariobarza (talk) 05:24, 20 December 2008 (UTC) Ariobarza talk

Thanks Doug for clearing up the point on my talk page. I just think some users have used the excuse of neutrality to balance articles that are in no need of balancing. With respect to others, I still keep an open mind about people, and simply don't appreciate the labeling of them as nationalists and vise versa. If I like editing computer articles, I don't think I should be called a computer nationalist. Its really a simple concept. For you, I have never and will never accuse you of being desrespectfull to other users. In fact, I think that you have helped me on Misplaced Pages more than anyone else. And I thank you for that. Best regards.--Ariobarza (talk) 09:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)Ariobarza talk

scott

im looking for ancient through medieval history modern is not my subject :). i know ancient greek, middle ages europe, and medieval europe. paricularly good with the crusades, spartans. but i have a good knowledge of everything.--Hoplite54 (talk) 00:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy holidays

Thanks for making 2008 an interesting and enlightening year for me; at some point, our paths have crossed and I've found your comments amusing, helpful or thought-provoking—I'll let you guess which!

Middle Ages

When you protected the Middle Ages article, you set the protection level to "edit=sysop". The article has been vandalised frequently, but all vandalism I can see since the last protection expired, with the exception of one edit by J295 (talk · contribs), is from IPs and new accounts. Was full protection intended or should it have been semi-protection with a continuation of the existing move protection? —Snigbrook 20:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Oops, my bad. Meant to be semi-protection with full move protection, but I can't change it for some reason, it keeps complaining about the expiry time. dougweller (talk) 20:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Something was definitely wrong there, but it's fixed now after a 3rd Admin tried. dougweller (talk) 06:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Horus

If the sources are unreliable, it should be pointed out within the article. There is this theory floating around, and it's being heard by lots of people across the world: by simply censoring it, we're not going to help anyone make up their mind.--Exidor (talk) 19:22, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

The 'theory', a hypothesis really, is already mentioned in the article. It is a minor fringe idea, and the table has so many inaccuracies it simply should not be in the article. And as I said, it's a minor idea and WP:Undue would I think suggest that a mention is all that is appropriate. dougweller (talk) 19:25, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Noob Needs Help

Hi Dougweller,

I started on an Aubrey Organics article to keep adding to it as I believe they play an important role in the industry I am in but most of Aubrey Hampton and his company Aubrey Organics' role is unknown to most. I had no intention of advertising in any way. My first article was deleted the same way so I tried to improve on it with my wording and links, references, which was deleted by you. I have looked at some of the other entries that are similar such as Redken and Dr. Hauschka etc. and I don't see why my entry is classified as advertisement and they are not.

I had to keep it short due to the available time I have on my hands right now and have not had a chance to work on the important information such as when and what was achieved in their 42 years of work in the natural cosmetics industry.

Could you please let me know what I'm not doing or doing wrong? If possible I would like it to be available as it is, I will keep working on it or perhaps let me know what is causing the problem so I can fix it.

Thank you

PS: Under "Did I delete your page, block you, or do something else that I should not have done?" above, the link "let me know" to create a new entry goes to J.delanoy instead of your own. I ended up asking J.delanoy :)

JollyJelly (talk) 21:01, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Answered on your talk page. I thought I'd fixed that, thanks! dougweller (talk) 06:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, more reading before more typing. JollyJelly (talk) 21:56, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Tundrbuggy's language

Hi Doug. Tundrabuggy's language on Ariobarza's talk page has become unacceptable. Since TB has not been involved in any editing of Persian/Greek ancient history, his contributions on the talk page are purely trolling. He seems set on gratuitously annoying other wikipedians by posting hate messages. If he continues, I hope that somebody blocks him. He doesn't seem to realize that Elonka dropped Ariobarza's cause some time back. Best regards, Mathsci (talk) 05:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Original Research.

I believe simply that the original research policy is that you must cite what your sources state rather than your own opinion. I did not say there was no OR in the article, but it can be correctd. I don't think thats a reason to delete the entire article. What I think is the main problem of the article, is that, yes there is some synthesis in it. That is why I have removed several sections that directly compare the two empires, and retained sections which explain the empire in each area. E.g. Roman economy(explained) Han economy(explained) and so on. I do not believe putting facts right next to each other is synthesis. If you have any doubts, check the sources of each paragraph. Thank you. Also, i hope you can reverse your delete vote as I have now found several new sources and rewritten part of the article. I have presented my case on why it should not be deleted in Afd template. I look forward to working with you if the article survives Afd. Teeninvestor (talk) 18:06, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I can't check the sources easily because of lack of page numbers. Some of the sources fail our criteria for reliable sources. An article about comparing two things should be based on sources that compare the two things, otherwise it is synthesis. I see where you are coming from, but that would justify an article comparing the Roman Empire with any culture or civilization, ie it would be literally pointless. dougweller (talk) 18:24, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that what I think two sections of facts right next to each other with different sources isn't synthesis. It's used in the most featured articles of wikipedia. Teeninvestor (talk) 14:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree article about comparing two things should be mainly based on sources that compare two things, but that doesn't prevent details from being added by sources that cover one spectrum of the article. For example, on the article "Comparing American and Canadian health care systems" the main sources are about comparing, with minor sources comparing details. In this article, it is structured similarly. Most sections have two or three paragraphs of sourced from a source that compares both of them, and one on each empire from a source that covers only one.Teeninvestor (talk) 14:15, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you still wish to delete the article? Teeninvestor (talk) 00:52, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for bring Misplaced Pages; Comparison articles to my attention. see discussion;Teeninvestor (talk) 17:50, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, see this section:

"The best practice is to write Misplaced Pages articles by taking information from different reliable sources about a subject and putting those claims on an article page in our own words, yet true to the original intent — with each claim attributable to a source that explicitly makes that claim."

Therefore, as long as all your claims are sustained by your sources, it is not original Research. I believe this settles our discussion about whether putting two bodies of facts next to each other is synthesis. As long as the sectiosn are true to their original content, they fit with[REDACTED] guidelines. Also, please do not attempt to interrupt in my private discussions; I for one do not endeauver to find out who you talk to when you are not discussing the comparison article. During the public debate, I have been (from my POV) relatively courteous to you. Teeninvestor (talk) 19:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid it isn't that simple. And on the OR talk page, you must have found that the other editors disagree with you.

As to private conversations, I'm afraid they don't exist on Misplaced Pages. Chiming in on conversations on other editors' talk pages is quite normal. One of the great things about Misplaced Pages is its transparency. dougweller (talk) 20:12, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

IP 194.176.105.40 talk

I see this block is for 1 week; the last was for 6 months, and the one before that 3 months. Is there as reason for the short block? Is the problem getting better? I’d have thought (as someone who works in the NHS) the longer the better.
I thought I’d written to Ryulong about this last week (see here), but it seems the NHS has more than one IP address.Xyl 54 (talk) 17:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused here, why are you asking me as it was User talk:Sam Korn you need to talk to as he did the block. dougweller (talk) 17:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry; you're right. I made an assumption because your name was on the note with the CU block. Xyl 54 (talk) 09:34, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Mistake

I may have indeed made a mistake, but I'm confused about what current Wiki-culture is about withdrawing nominations. In my mind, it's better to let AfDs run their course in order to establish a community consensus. What do you think?

ScienceApologist (talk) 08:20, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I've seen noms withdraw nominations recently, and as your recent AfDs are now being used to attack you, it would show GF. In this case I think it's pretty clear cut that it is going to be a keep anyway. It wouldn't hurt and I think would help to withdraw it - in this specific case. dougweller (talk) 09:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

That's fine, but I've also now been attacked for not "properly" withdrawing AfD nominations. I'm going to wait for an answer on what the "proper" withdrawl procedure is. Unless you can tell me. ScienceApologist (talk) 09:29, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I see, chiming in there. dougweller (talk) 09:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Han/Roman comparison

Happy New Year, Doug. I think you're right that all the material referenced to the WW Norton book needs to be taken out. It will take a bit of time though. Whether it needs to be protected after that depends on whether TI takes on board what we are saying about copyright. Yes, after lengthy ;-) consideration, I do want to run for admin. Do you want to nominate me? Itsmejudith (talk) 17:17, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

One alternative is to put the copyvio template on that blanks the page until the issue is settled. Moreschi offered to nominate you, take him up on it and I'll second you if that's procedure, what do you think? dougweller (talk) 17:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I can see that so far you have deemed me unfit to edit wikipedia; although I disagree with your contention, it is within your abilities as an administrator to prevent a user from making edits. Therefore, in order to save you the displeasure of banning me, I will stop my editing of "comparison between Roman and Han empires" and other articles I have been working on until such time as you feel that I should be able to edit wikipedia. Please inform me of your decision if you do feel that way. Thank you.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:39, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

????? I didn't write any article about tv shows. I have written three articles so far. Also, not to be complaining, but i would welcome it if you found a source about this article yourself and added information to the article; your criticism is very welcome, but work is helpful too.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Working on sources that I can afford, but it may take a few weeks I'm afraid. You did create a talk page for the 100 best comedy shows/episodes/whatever asking what made it notable, a good question and the reason for the template on the article. I've run out of time for a few days to do anything lengthy, if no one comments on what you've written I'll try to find time. remember, there is no real rush (except of course for copyvio problems which I don't think exist anymore, there we do act fast and sometimes drastically). dougweller (talk) 17:44, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh that article. I didn't put up the template because I didn't have much knowledge on the subject, so I merely raised a question to the user. Any contributions by you would be appreciated. Just to note, I am in the process of rewriting paragraphs based on Norton(e.g. restoring the material so it doesnt violate copyvio{I have yet to receive a letter from the publisher, therefore I assume it is copyvio). I'm sure you will agree Norton is a credible source. As to the 5000 years book, I have found you A description of the books the publisher (A big publishing firm in China) has published(It's in Chinese unfortunately). As you can see, the publisher is quite a big and relatively reputable publisher in China. http://www.haotushu.com/press/61/ , http://www.bookschina.com/publish/204/, These websites are lists of books they have published.

search:内蒙古人民出版社 in any chinese book site, and im sure you will get results. Here is the website of the publisher: http://www.ilucking.com/press/neimenggurenminchubanshe/. I know it is preferable to have english sources, and i am in process of getting these sources. search neimenggu renmin chubanshe (pinyin rendition of the publisher's name)in google, and you will see it is cited in even english books. Teeninvestor (talk) 18:14, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I have added page numbers for all my book sources except a few secondary sources e.g. I checked an article found some claims that were sourced to that book. See structural history of the Roman Army in that respect. In terms of the 5000 years book and sun tzu's art of war, I do own them and so I have added page numbers. Sorry that was me I forgot to log in. Also, can you help me rewrite several paragraphs that were deleted because of copyvio and now I have to rewrite based on the source Norton books. We can settle the OR, and 5000 years thing later. I believe getting that information restored is first priority. Do you have any problems with the economics section(proposed restoration)????(teeninvestor)76.70.109.189 (talk) 17:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you see my suggestion regarding the chinese history book? Although I see your objection, I believe it would be a good source for say, description of han agricultural methods, equipment and other noncontroversial details. However, the statement han economy is largest needs more verification. Teeninvestor (talk) 15:32, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Dougweller, when will you be able to get the conceiving empire book? We're waiting for that. As to the chinese source, I believe it can a temporary solution.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea how long it will take to get it. I don't think we can have 'temporary' solutions, it's either suitable for a WP encyclopedic article or not. WP:There is no deadlineand it's better to have a shorter, good article than a longer one that for instance can't be verified by most of our readers.

Most Common Name "Shedu"?

Hello Doug, seeing your knowledge in Ancient Near Eastern Studies, I would like to get your input here ] . I wanted you to look over my findings, on the grounds that the current name of the article is not the most common name in the english language. Perhaps you can validate this finding or make your own suggestion to what is the best name for the article. I would appreciate your input here, perhaps you can come across some findings of your own. Thank you in advance. Ninevite (talk) 20:58, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Dear Dougweller,

Wishing you a happy new year, and very best wishes for 2009. Whether we were friends or not in the past year, I hope 2009 will be better for us both.

Kind regards,

Majorly talk 21:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the wishes, Doug. All the best to you and yours, too! . dave souza, talk 22:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Restoration of material from Norton.

I have decided to restore several paragraphs rewritten because no one seemed to have objections to them. This is NOT an attempt on my part to restore copyright vio material. Although I am not a big fan of copyright law, I don't want to break it or cause[REDACTED] to be sued over it. I only reinserted it after putting it up for a day and no one submitted objections(I knew you were on at that time because you posted several messages on the talk page). If you had complaints, please address them on talk page. Right now, it seems like no one has objections. Don't worry; I will only restore the paragraphs I have written in talk page. Also, regarding inline citations, I'll get to that after we deal with some other concerns(finding another source, adding technology section, etc...). Also, regarding Original research, I believe that sources that only compare one empire can be used to provide context. The reader could make his own comparisons from the facts. As to direct comparisons, I think Norton could be a good source.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:33, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Can you show an example of inline citations? cause WP: Citations isnt very helpful. i used the first method I found for most citations.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

As well as WP:CITE, see , , , - it's hard work. :-) dougweller (talk) 20:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

RE: Do you know why H5+R1A (talk · contribs) is editing your User page?

Hi there,

I'm not sure why he's editing my user page actually, I don't think I've blocked the user or his socks.

The Helpful One 22:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up! :) The Helpful One 18:41, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

RFC at WP:NOR-notice

A concern was raised that the clause, "a primary source may be used only to make descriptive claims, the accuracy of which is verifiable by any reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge" conflicts with WP:NPOV by placing a higher duty of care with primary sourced claims than secondary or tertiary sourced claims. An RFC has been initiated to stimulate wider input on the issue. Professor marginalia (talk) 06:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Sphinx

Hi there. You deleted some of my additions to the Sphinx article. I accept some of your corrections, and have added the required extra references etc as suggested. However you also deleted some significant extra material, seemingly on the grounds that you supposed it to be original research. These OR assertions are incorrect. I have therefore reinstated the original text (more or less) but have included the necessary references to the work of the original authors from whose voluminous papers I have extracted and summarised these points. I hope this now meets the standard. I don't understand your assertion about the "errors such as that about the Geological Society meeting" - I have deleted it meanwhile, but please clarify?Wdford (talk) 23:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Schoch had a booth at the meeting, with photos, etc, for a morning or an afternoon. It's called a poster session, and there are perhaps hundreds of them at a GSA meeting. Other geologists wander among them and perhaps chat a bit. Schoch never claimed this as an endorsement of his work, this all comes from John Anthony West in the first place, and was just an anecdote with no evidence behind him. dougweller (talk) 06:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, it is still OR, because you are using statements by others to come to a conclusion. Eg, unless Lerner connects the channel he discovered to the age of the Sphinx, then you can't use that. If he does, fine, tell us what he says. The paragraph starting 'per Doctor Schoch looks like OR also, and as Giza still receives heavy rainfall so far as I know it's incorrect anyway. The para starting 'the primary counterargument' is all OR (see WP:SYNTHESIS. Ditto the para starting 'However the erosion. You are clearly coming to conclusions yourself based on other people's work. That's fine in an essay, but here we just report what reliable sources have to say and let our readers some to a conclusion. See WP:NPOV about the weight given to various views (not that I'm raising that as an issue here now), and WP:NOR. dougweller (talk) 07:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the very useful feedback. I have left out the less-important elements, and have now inserted only the important but disputed material using direct quotes from the original texts. I hope I have done it correctly. I agree that Lawton himself is not generally an objective source, but Reader's paper is being published here in full and without Lawton's censorship.Wdford (talk) 18:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

And thank you. I tried to go through the article bit by bit detailing what I was doing and why. I think it's still necessary to have a bit of why Bordeau disagrees with Reader, and more about why Egyptologists disagree (the archaeological reasons). Then the thing to do was to think about WP:UNDU and WP:NPOV, so ideas are given coverage that their significance shows they should have, or however it's worded. A bit tricky, but the idea is that an idea not taken very seriously doesn't get the same attention as one taken more seriously. I will say that I think Schoch's prominence over Reader and Coxill's ideas has more to do with publicity than anything else. dougweller (talk) 18:19, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I think Schoch gets the nod because he came on the scene first - Reader has added a lot of extra value, but in most things he agrees with Schoch, and so naturally it is "Schoch, supported by Reader" rather than the other way around. I also think its wrong to suppose that Reader is more credible than Schoch - scientifically their methodology does not seem much different - all that Reader has done differently is to deduce that the Sphinx may have been carved hundreds of years earlier rather than thousands of years earlier, which makes the Establishment a bit less unhappy, and he has done so with less publicity.

I am happy to enlarge the reason why Egyptologists disagree, in this section as well.

However, I disagree with your removing "what the authors didn't say". In all cases the rebuttals failed to explain all the evidence, namely why did their proposed process affect only the one small area and not all the other rock of equal age as well? Both Schoch and Reader clearly stated that no explanation other than water erosion could explain ALL the evidence, and Gergis is already complaining that inserting detailed quotations each time is more than is required. Surely it is not OR to word a point so as to make it clear what it says and what it does not say - especially as this is scientific evidence rather than just an opinion (perhaps we should move the deductions re the timing to the end, to correct the UNDUE??) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wdford (talk • contribs) 13:26, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Of course, neither Schoch nor Reader are full-time professional geologists. One reason not to use Lawton's site is that he calls Schoch a Professor of Geology, which is not at all accurate, geology is part of what he teaches (at a non-degree level), but only part and not a minor part, and he does little if any serious geology research. As far as OR goes, we report what authors say without getting into our own discussions about it, and certainly without making any deductions of our own. And there is still the issue about the mainstream view being given much less coverage than other views. dougweller (talk) 14:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

True - but the fact that they are not full-time professors does not invalidate their observations, and it should not undermine their deductions either? If so, the world would not know that Troy really existed? However I agree with your concern about UNDUE - this extra material was only included in an attempt to address OR - so I have greatly reduced the size of the section to comply. I am happy with the current version, if its acceptable?Wdford (talk) 15:52, 5 January 2009 (UTC

Schoch is a full time professor, I meant that neither of them are full time geologists so far as I know. I started a discussion on WP:UNDUE on the talk page, let's see how that runs. dougweller (talk) 15:58, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Martinjacobson1

Hello. I noticed you detagged Martinjacobson1's userpage. I'm fine with that, I had only tagged it as attack because of concerns that it may have violated WP:BLP. Saying someone was addicted to heroin isn't exactly flattering. But of course, it does seem to have some legitimacy; I had some reservations about CSD'ing the article and they were obviously founded. Apologies for the inconvenience. » \ / (⁂ | ※) 13:50, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I did tell the editor I thought it was inappropriate for his userspace. dougweller (talk) 15:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Deleted: Egolf Tarheel Tour

Why was this article deleted? I wrote this[REDACTED] page as a project for my internship, the first thing I did was just to get it up there. It got marked for speedy deletion, so I changed and added a bunch of stuff to insure that it would not be seen as advertising which it is not. I added a schedule of tournaments and past winners of events as well as references. Egolf Tarheel Tour is a legitimate Developmental Golf Tour, similar to NGA Hooters Tour, which has a[REDACTED] page. Please help me to make this page so that it meets your guidelines. tarheeltour.com

Thank you, Robert Friedman —Preceding unsigned comment added by Refriedm (talk • contribs) 17:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I just saw what you wrote on my talkpage. I am working on getting it userfied and will then add outside sources. Thanks Refriedm (talk) 17:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

2012

Indefinite protection of articles is prohibited by policy (and that's especially true for "preventive protection"); that was the sole reason behind my unprotection action. Seeing the influx of activity you are referring to, I would say that using long-term semi-protection would have been a wiser course of action, but that, of course, would have been impossible to predict when I lifted the protection this morning. Rest assured, it was my intent to watch this article further, but, as you realize, one cannot watch everything full time, so others had to deal with this in the past half day. At any rate, I semi-protected this article for one month due to the reasons you laid out above. If you still disagree, feel free to bring this to ANI. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:36, January 5, 2009 (UTC)

Happy with this, but after the month I shall probably reprotect, this has a few year to run and it will get wilder as it goes on. I may take it to ANI later this year to see how long we can run at a time with semi. Thanks. dougweller (talk) 21:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, but we shouldn't be depriving good editors a chance to make useful contributions to this article, even if it means more work for us reverting all that end-of-the-world crap. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 22:02, January 5, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I think it may be or become eligible for indef semi - "Administrators may apply indefinite semi-protection to pages which are subject to heavy and persistent vandalism or violations of content policy (such as biographies of living persons, neutral point of view)." Did you mean indefinite full protection? dougweller (talk) 22:08, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I talked about originally. Indef semi in this case may be fine; or we could try one-months increments to see how it goes.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:19, January 6, 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Misplaced Pages:An#Copyright_vio_needs_speedily_deleting - John Sloan (view / chat) 22:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - I asked too soon, I managed to get there in the end. dougweller (talk) 22:36, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Promised Land

Hi there,

Just checking the reason why my 'good faith' edit was removed. I thought I included a citation...

Cheers,

Ojh23 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ojh23 (talk • contribs) 01:38, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

You sort of included a citation. But you removed the 'reflist' template which made the other references invisible, you should have used the 'cite your sources' ref /ref with <> -- look in the edit window, bewlow the tick box for watch this page, next to sign your posts. You called the author 'Dr' which we don't do, and you didn't mention that he is speaking from a Muslim tradition which I think is an important part of the context. I have one other non-technical concern, is he speaking for the Muslim tradition or is this just a personal opinion of his? Do you know? dougweller (talk) 06:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry - didn't realise about the 'Dr.' etiquette and I'm afraid I don't understand technical computer-speak stuff. I should have edited without the refs disappearing, but didn't realise I'd done this. On the last point about Guillaume, he was a professor of Old Testament studies at the University of London; generally when scholars are writing scholarly treatises and books they are written in the spirit of rational, academic debate, and not opinion. If you would rather, I can mention that my citation of Guillaume takes account of the fact that he was also a prominent Islamic scholar. However, his commentary on the Scriptures was frequently published by the SPCK - Society for the Promotion of Christian Knowledge, which would suggest he was not 'speaking for the Muslim tradition'. I will wait to hear back from you before changing anything.

Cheers,

Owen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ojh23 (talk • contribs) 15:36, 6 January 2009 (UTC) Sounds good. Use the Preview button next time, when I forget I often have it wrong. I'm sure Guillaume is ok, just add that he was an Islamic scholar (don't call him prominent as that would be a personal opinion). As we have an article on it, put his name within

External link in

Yeah, I linked to a blog. Yeah, I linked to a self-published source. Guilty. Now, please allow me to respond:

• RE: Misplaced Pages:EL

The link is to (AFAIK) a unique resource (Borongan Airport is very remote). The info and photos are unique, reliable, not misleading. This is not an exercise in self-promotion. WP:EL # 11 - I do have some claim under "recognized authority" and will try to point this out without grandstanding ...

• RE: WP:N:

- Significant coverage (which is not available elsewhere)

- Independent of the subject

- The source may be assumed "reliable" due to the scope, and period since publishing.

• RE: WP:SPS:

- the material used is relevant

- the link is NOT self-serving

- does not claim anything, entirely objective

So, I think there is a case for an exception within the WP guidelines ... No?

User:Davidx5

I just want to bring to your attention that User:Davidx5 went ahead and re-created his Hispanic (updated) article again, this time as Hispanic (European View).-5- (talk) 14:14, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I requested CSD as a recreation of deleted material. Verbal chat 14:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, nothing for me to do then! dougweller (talk) 15:10, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Hi Doug. Hope your quiet evening in went well. We did much the same, but it seems like a long time ago. Co-nom would be absolutely great. A bit busy at work this week, but haven't forgotten and hoping to put the RfA in say by the start of next week. Cheers. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks for your co-nom - hard to recognise myself in your description ;-) Have done draft answers to questions now. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Rules of the game

Hi: I don't mind if pages are undeleted or whatever but could you possibly arbitrate this whole charade? Obviously there are things I just cannot discuss and since this is an anonymous place you must appreciate that right? Sincerely, Manhattan Samurai (talk) 16:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

EEStor advert tag

Hi, I removed the advert tag from the EEStor page after doing a minor edit to make it sound less like an advert. Since you added the advert tag I thought I should let you know. Please see my entry on the EEstor discussion page for more info about my thinking on this. Thanks, Stephen Luce (talk) 19:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for this. dougweller (talk) 21:11, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Davidx5 (talk · contribs)

Thank you. As far as I can tell, this user defines as American anyone who does not agree with him. I suspect that this is a fixation which we are not going to eradicate. --Anthony.bradbury 12:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Just as a headsup, it looks like he's back to changing the statement by Anthony. I honestly don't think he'll ever change. Templarion (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I doubt it. Right now I've reblocked him so he can't use his talk page. Thanks for letting me know. dougweller (talk) 20:21, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Bronze Age

Respectfully, I propose to reinstate your deletion. What do you mean the article does not exist? I provided a full citation for it? It is a journal article (ie. hard copy), not a web article as the citation indicates. If you supply me with your email address I can send you a scanned copy. Then, after reading it, if you wish to critique its contents you can do so on the Talk page and comment accordingly. The article appears to be written by Mr Keys based on the work of others - it does not claim to be his own research. Kind regards--Calabraxthis 16:10, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok, but I know it is a magazine article (journal usually implies academic), it is just that the BBC doesn't list it as in the magazine issue you mention. That confuses me. If you click on the email this user at the left of this you can email me, and if you can't add an attachment I'll email you back, I'd rather not put my email address on my talk page. dougweller (talk) 16:14, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - I have sent you through an email with a message so that I might send you an attachment of the scanned article. Kind regards--Calabraxthis 17:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Paper folding

Was it really necessary to remove the entire edit? You could have just asked for a better reference. Please do try to bite less (even though I'm not a newbie). — sjorford++ 18:31, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

My experience is that that rarely works, although what I could have done and perhaps should have done is removed it and notified you why. dougweller (talk) 14:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Missing a pair of curly brackets at Sovereign Grace Ministries I think.

The template does not appear, only {pp-protected}. All the best, and I am so very glad to know I am not the only one who does that from time to time. Thanks! :)sinneed (talk) 23:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

On the BLP board, I have a post that has both right-hand square brackets... but sometimes they both appear, and sometimes only one. Something odd going on. :)sinneed (talk) 13:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyright issue; may I refer a contributor to you?

Hi. I'm getting ready to go out of town for an extended weekend (though I'll be here some hours yet), and I have discovered a rather large copyright concern with User:Redpathanderson. He had an article listed at cp which came current today. As standard operating procedure for active contributors, I checked his other contribs and have so far located 14 other articles that either consist of or include large chunks of text copied from other sources. (I'm processing them, of course, and they're at Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems/2009 January 16.) I've spoken to the contributor about it at User talk:Redpathanderson#Copyright problem: Reculver Castle, but he may have questions or concerns, particularly since his contribution here suggests he may not understand the issue. Do you mind if I refer him to you if he has questions that I am unable to address before going? If you don't have time, please let me know, and I'll track down somebody else who may be available or just tell him that we may not be able to discuss the matter before the 19th. (This, of course, presumes you'll be around before I go. If not, I'll think of something.) --Moonriddengirl 14:25, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

My only problem is that I still don't feel I'm up to speed on handling copyright issues if they aren't straightforward. But otherwise, I'm around and am happy to talk to him. dougweller (talk) 14:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

It shouldn't really be complicated. Thanks. I'll give him your name and let him know when I'll be back. He can also, of course, address questions at WT:CP, but that's hardly a quick forum. :) --Moonriddengirl 14:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

I do. I am happy to give them. Thanks for the heads up anyway. AF-H —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fiskeharrison (talk • contribs) 16:22, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Fringepedia

Don't despair, just learn German and seek exile at de: ;-)

Or more seriously speaking, whereas I'm rather skeptical about the Misplaced Pages in general, the handling of fringe theories and crackpots on enwiki rather made me (nearly) to stop contributing here. It just wasn't possible to stop the snake oil sellers here.

--Pjacobi (talk) 12:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I think I've had more successes than failures. Please don't give up! I've done a bit more tidying of Die Glocke. Warrington seems to have a lot of time on his hands. :-)

Flexibility

I originally created this article as a redirect. I don't think a deletion is appropriate. Deletion just creates a void where someone else will inevitably create an article or redirect anyway, one that might not be appropriate and be less informative or even trolly. If you would like to improve the contents, please try to improve the article itself. Deletion is not a solution at all. If you don't like the changes all these other people have made, then restore it to the redirect please, don't delete it. People have done a lot of work compiling information there, and it has historically existed for a couple years now, so why throw it out? Tyciol (talk) 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I am pretty sure it will end up as a redirect. Hopefully the AfD process will tidy up the bits that have accreted. dougweller (talk) 22:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

My RfA

Doug, thanks very much for your confidence in me and sorry it didn't work out. I'm going to thank everyone who contributed, then take a short break, then considering being adopted, which I've always thought is a nice idea. Keep up the good work! Itsmejudith (talk) 22:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Christopher

Ta for noticing. I must have overlooked that one. Tresiden (talk) 13:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Oops

Mea culpa, I'll be more careful next time, thanks for pointing that out. — PhilHibbs | talk 20:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

help!

please, please ... at Culture. Over the years, thanks to too many cooks, this article turned into a disaster. Mixing up different POV's even from different disciplines, lots of redundancies, no distinction between fringe and mainstream theory. I just did a major overhaul (with explanations on the talk page) - basically deleting fringe materials, cutting repetitions, and reorganizing. My intention for now was to clearly lay out different approaches to "culture." I do not think this article should just repeat stuff in Cultural anthropology and in Cultural studies for example but it does need to explain the relationship and differences between their respective approaches to culture. But (1) my revision is incomplete, (2) I surely made mistakes, and (3) a lot needs to be fleshed out. I would really appreciate it if you would go over it and fix any glaring errors, see if you can improve the organization, and then perhaps flesh out parts that need developing. Misplaced Pages's article on culture was awful - yet it ought to be great! I'd appreciate your help (current archeological methods and theories for material culture are surely relevant, highly relevant), Slrubenstein | Talk 05:48, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Ouch. I don't think I have time right now, as I am going to see my aged father shortly and will be away from my library. Maybe when I get back, it does look like a big job though! I'll think about it and look at it again next month. Sorry about that. dougweller (talk) 13:29, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Totally understandable. On the talk page I summarized specific areas I think still need considerable work, and besides, I value your judgment. I hope when you come back you will give it serious consideration, I am sure it would benefit from your efforts. Good luck with your father, I hope it is a positive visit. Best, Slrubenstein | Talk 15:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I wrote up a section on archeology and material culture - next month when you have time I would appreciate it if you would go over it and make sure there are no glaring errors, I would appreciate it. Also, if you have time to develop it, please let me know, I have a few specific ideas but would rather an expert do any further development. The trick is to make it about "culture" from an archeologist's POV rather than about "archeology" as such. Best, Slrubenstein | Talk 15:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

ancient-wisdom.

Hi Doug.

It appears that ancient-wisdom has been banned from Misplaced Pages.

Honestly...Im not sure exactly whats happened here, or why... I first find myself defending a charge of misrepresentation of the facts, to which I believe I have responded sufficiently well in that ancient-wisdom.co.uk is an exploration of prehistory. The aim of the site is to research the boundaries of prehistoric research and as such some of the content is speculative, but it is no way incorrect, nor aimed to prejudice the reader. The site is fully referenced and is intended to be as unbiased and unprejudiced as Misplaced Pages says it is. As such - I asked for the errors I was accused of making and offered to correct them.

In reply, I found your note on the megaliths discussion page which seems to suggest that I am breaching Misplaced Pages guidelines by neither referencing material (which can be seen to be a false statement), or that I am prejudiced in my approach. It is ironic that your response was to block me, whereas mine was to accept criticism and alter the site according to your original request.

I once again ask you to specify the mistakes I was originally charged with (the 4-5 errors my 2 year old Top-50 stones page), in order that i can correct them ... As the site is clearly referenced, and I am openly offering to alter incorrect information on it... it will be interesting to see if you will allow ancient-wisdom to be part of the Wilkipedia future.

All the best..Alex.

(alex@ancient-wisdom.co.uk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.154.132.175 (talk) 23:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I haven't blocked you, I have said that your site fails our criteria for reliable sources, see WP:RS. If you disagree, you can discuss it at the appropriate noticeboard at WP:RSN. It is your personal site, and I'm afraid neither you nor I are reliable sources on this area. Now if your name was Timothy Darvill or another noted archaeologist, it is possible but not certain that your personal site could be considered a reliable source. This has nothing to do with any specific errors. dougweller (talk) 13:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Protect this article

Can you please place some kind of protection on this article: George Vancouver

• There is quite a bit of vandalism in his article and I just restored a large chunk of info that had been stripped from it. It is a popular site for vandals since the city of Vancouver, Canada derived its name from him. Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 05:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there is enough day-to-day vandalism, at least recently, to justify protection. Take a look at WP:Rough guide to semi-protection. I have found some broken text that I didn't feel I could fix, see the talk page.

If vandalism does grow to a daily basis, let me know. dougweller (talk) 13:23, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Block of 205.236.31.238

I used the wrong template, I did mean to only block for 24 hours. Feel free to bump it higher if it's warranted (I did notice they'd had lots of previous warnings and blocks). Sorry for the confusion. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Myspace Farm

Saw your notice on the admin noticeboard; I looked a bit deeper and found a few more of the chatters: Donnawood123 (talk · contribs), Laneyboi (talk · contribs) and DANHOWARD2K9 (talk · contribs) and it looks like the geezer character is back as Geezer1003 (talk · contribs)... Aunt Entropy (talk) 20:12, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Blocked Geezer1003 for his legal threat, put them all on ANI to see if anyone can block their IPs. dougweller (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

RfA thankspam

		Thank you for your participation in my recent RfA, which failed with 90/38/3; whether you supported, opposed or remained neutral. Special thanks go out to Moreschi, Dougweller and Frank for nominating me, and I will try to take everyone's comments on board. Thanks again for your participation. I am currently concentrating my efforts on the Wikification WikiProject. It's fun! Please visit the project and wikify a few articles to help clear the backlog. If you can recruit some more participants, then even better. Apologies if you don't like RfA thankspam, this message was delivered by a bot which can't tell whether you want it or not. Feel free to remove it. Itsmejudith (talk), 22:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Denbot (talk) 22:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Lindisfarne

Hi Doug,

Many thanks for your message.

I am unsure why there is an issue adding the safe-tide website to the lindisfarne entry. You provide a link to a version of the tidetables which is not covered by indemnity insurance or a strict data integrity policy. In addition to this, you link into a website selling a dvd about Holy Island and the 'Island Website' which is packed full of adverts for Holy Island related businesses and products. The castle also runs as a commercial venue, yet a link to their website is also displayed. Please can you explain why it is acceptable for one business to have an external link and not others.

Thanks,

James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.27.190 (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

The castle is National Trust, not a commerical venue. The island website is so far as I can see their official website, so is ok (see WP:EL and bring it up on the talk page if you are unhappy, but you'll be told the same thing. dougweller (talk) 09:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by an official website? Anyone could claim to have the official website for a place. In this situation it is an individual who has set up a website about the place they live and sell advertising and products on the site. You are keeping the link for the Diary of an Island DVD (http://www.holyislanddvd.co.uk) - set up specifically to promote or sell? That would appear to be contrary to the policy you refer to. It is not a case of being 'unhappy' but I would like to see a consistent approach to the application, if certainly raises the issue of integrity over the data and those editing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.27.190 (talk) 19:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

No reason you couldn't have deleted them, but I have now. Things get missed, not enough editors watching every article. dougweller (talk) 19:36, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello Doug,

I have removed links selling photography from the Lindisfarne site on several occasions, as have other users. More of less as soon as we remove them they end up being added again. Can you help?

Larry —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.251.52 (talk) 00:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

A notable essay or not?

A minor point - I'm not interested in the entry - but please view latest article in Prospect - the blog entry for which which cites my bullfighting piece as a "much-noted essay for Prospect on bull-fighting (a piece which sparked one of the most in-depth discussions ever to feature on this blog)" - First Drafts --Fiskeharrison (talk) 01:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Manion

Hi Doug

Thanks for your message explaining. I am brand new and simply read around to see what to do, followed the rules as far as I was concerned as I was in the process of making a page for Manion which is a mascot. Im not sure about the parameters of "notability", but there's a few relatively notable online followings.

Thanks, Simon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simanion (talk • contribs) 08:58, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

modern geocentrism: some scientists do believe it.

You said that no scientist believes that the earth is the center of the universe. That is shown to be false if you consult the following papers and monographs.

"Galileo Was Wrong: The Church Was Right, Volume I, The Scientific Case for Geocentrism" by Robert A. Sungenis, Ph.D. and Robert J. Bennett, Ph.D,

"Geocentricity, Relativity and the Big Bang" by Russell Arndts, (PhD in Chemistry from Louisiana)

"Geocentricity" by Gerardus D Bouw, (a mathematician)

Additionally, non-relativistic models of the universe which has the universe floating around a fixed earth have been developed by Moon and Spencer: "Binary Stars and the velocity of Light" Journal of the Optical Society of America (1953); and Barbour and Bertotti "Gravity and Inertia in a Machian Framework" Il Nouvo Cimento (1977).

Finally, an inverted universe, which claims that the surface of the earth is the inside of a hollow sphere, plausibly counts as geocentric and has been advocated by Fritz Braun, and by an Egyptian Mostafa Abdelkader: "A geocosmos: Mapping outer space into a hollow earth" in Speculatinos in Science and Cosmology (1983).

With the exception of Bouw these are all (to my knowledge) professional scientists, and so I would appreciate it if you let my edit stick. Pretending that scientific minority opinion does not exist because it is from a minority is not the attitude of the intellectually honest.

Perhaps "Modern Geocentrism is rejected by the vast majority of the scientific establishment" would be better?

Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.17.180.41 (talk) 19:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

It would be. Bouw is an astronomer but I don't know what he actually taught. I do think that this scientific minority is infinitessimal, but it is there even if you can count them on your fingers. Put the list on the talk page, make it vast majority of scientists ('establishment' is not necessary, is it now?). dougweller (talk) 20:34, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Ole Miss

Ah! I didn't notice that one; never heard the nickname before, and thought it was a Norwegian University or something. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 03:10, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Now why didn't I think of that, of course it's Norwegian! dougweller (talk) 21:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Admin help

I would like this page moved to that page, but with the edit histories merged, if that is at all possible, if not, can you direct me to some way to do that sort of thing? TARTARUS 02:18, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I was in the air (literally). Why not just copy and paste your version over the current one? Does it matter that you would lose the history from the one on your page? dougweller (talk) 15:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

No, not really, I just heard that that was the way to do it... But if not, then I will just copy and paste it. TARTARUS 20:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

James Cameron Bio

Dougweller: You made an edit to the page of filmmaker James Cameron on 12-13-08 which did do two things, one (in my opinion) quite right, but the other (as far as I can tell), quite wrong. You deleted somebody's listing of Camoern as an "Anti-Christian". However, you apparently also listed Cameron as Jewish. It was my understanding that Cameron was raised only vaguely religious, but that he is entirely of Scottish ancestry with a light Protestant upbringing. I've read and heard him say this in numerous interviews (I'm a large fan of his, and run a blog about his works). For my citation, please see the "discussion" page at Cameron's own page.

If indeed you were correct and I am wrong, please contact me with your sourcs and also please incorporate these into his bio. Thank you.

Sorry, that must have been an effect of my edit. I would probably never add religious cateagories to an article. I'll undo it. dougweller (talk) 11:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Dougweller: Thank you for your rapid response, explanation for the error, and correction. Just one experience, but that's professional behavior through-and-through! —Preceding unsigned comment added by CameronFanSite (talk • contribs) 04:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Rktect

I agree. I can only revert the same article once a day, so there's nothing more I can do there, but he's clearly got a monomania about this, and doesn't much care about how Misplaced Pages works. Maybe an RfC? -LisaLiel (talk) 16:46, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

RfC means what? Cush (talk) 18:28, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Rktect

I'm afraid I'm too uninvolved. To give this proper attention I'd need to spend too much time reading the relevant discussions. I suggest you report this to WP:ANI instead to get responses from people with more time on their hands. - Mgm| 21:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Link to Roman Empire.

I tried to put a link on Roman Empire for Comparisons between Roman and Han Empires but Gun Powder Ma reverted it supposedly because the article has "no information". He retained other links I put though(Roman architecture, History, etc...). I haven't worked on the article for a while(busy with other things, such as Economy of the Ming dynasty) but would you think that comparison article is ready for a link to the Roman Empire article? Also, Dougweller, not to be rude, but when will schiedel arrive? if the book arrives, can you inform me as soon as possible. Thank you very much for your help. Regards.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea and no way to find out when the book will arrive, sorry. I'll think about the link question. dougweller (talk) 05:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

RfC on use of myth in religious articles

Hi. I have raised a RfC at Proposed change to policy on ambiguous words in religious articles. I feel this is an important issue and wanted to get an interested admin involved in the issue. Any input appreciated. Thanks--FimusTauri (talk) 09:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Sources

Hi! Thanks for the heads-up on the dead-end source. I didn't know the source was unreliable, but it is a personal website from someone so I agree it's best not to use. I took your advice and looked for better sources. Are these sources okay?

http://www.arkamani.org/arkamani-library/meroitic/brustein.htm

http://www.nps.gov/archive/hofu/teachers/timeline.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=PZcX2jQFTRcC&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=Nubia,+iron,+furnace&source=web&ots=WJzolQaCH5&sig=VPOhOXewQAF5hSLwuZ8QWh0NLwQ&hl=en&ei=_cCKSaDqBYqhtweSn-yeBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result

http://books.google.com/books?id=6tsaBtp0WrMC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=Nubia,+iron,+furnace&source=web&ots=ZnEjQi52NG&sig=WRvnLo72eW1qNGPQtid36tcAttM&hl=en&ei=_cCKSaDqBYqhtweSn-yeBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=11&ct=result

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab24

http://books.google.com/books?id=JAca1F3qG34C&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=Africa,+neolithic&source=web&ots=wWVGAvbwDC&sig=oLsfZADAq2fplcionxe5hXjBgXw&hl=en&ei=V8GKSaSbO9eitge6-eibBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPA71,M1

Please let me know. Sorry for the cumbersome format, I'm still not completely used to the formatting scheme of Misplaced Pages.Full Shunyata (talk) 10:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)