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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Pasha Abd (talk | contribs) at 21:09, 11 November 2005 (→Irania/Persian?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

In what country/countries are Kharmaithen and Hamadan? -- Zoe

That's actually not an easy question to answer. The 1911 EB says he was "born at Afshena in the district of Bokhara" and that his father was a tax collector in Harmaitin. Modern Bokhara is in Uzbekistan but back then it was all just Central Asia. Hamadan seems to be definitely in Persia/Iran tho. Zadcat

Thanks. I'll add Central Asia and Persia. -- Zoe

Another reason for m:spacetime_DTD

Yo all're crazy man, ibn Sina was Turkmen, and that is not mentioned anywhere in your article

-- Apparently you don't know much about anything as Turkmens weren't even in existence when Avicenna was born.

Using Latin form names everywhere is foolish. It makes more sense to call him what Muslims do, which is Ibn Sina.

-- No it isn't, that's what they're called in English, if you look at any important English document their names are Averroes, Avicenna, Rhazes etc...! Why the confusion?

I've read Avicenna's Psychology. The term psychology there does no mean the modern practice of psychology as mental health, but more the study of the anatomy of the soul. The two are ultimately related but still distinct. The link to psychology is therefore deceptive.

More detail on what "anatomy of the soul" means? Is this clinical psychology merged with moral philosophy or something? List of topics?

the Psychology of Avicenna is a study on the Soul. It means, A philosophical way to studie the human soul.

Avicenna a Tajik?

A comment on the following sentence in the article: "(Some sources actually state that Avicenna was born in Hamadan, and a good brief biography, linked below, claims him as a Tajik from Balkh)."

The tajik ethnicity is ill-defined, and the meaning seems to have fluctuated in the course of history. Some say that the tajiks are descendants of arabs after the Islamic invasions, others claim they are persians have emigrated from the iranian area around 200 AD. Today some will call any persian-speaking sunni with no specific ethnic association in the afghanistan/tajikstan area a tajik, yet there exists ismaili tajiks and even an extremely small group of imami tajik. Others affiliate themselves with different tajik clans.

Because of this confusion around the tajik ethnicity the modern day tajiks are striving to create a national identity, and thus some tajik sites will present persian philosophers with a background from the modern-day Tajikistan area as tajiks... though this can be viewed as highly speculative...

It is extremely doubtful that Ibn Sina/Avicenna would associate a tajik ethnicity with himself... most probably he viewed himself a persian.

-- I'm Azeri/Turkic and I'm more than convinced that Avicenna was PERSIAN!

-- Even though I have a high regard for Persian contributions to human civilization, I think SOME of today's Persians have an inferiority complex, because they self-"persianize" all the great Muslim Scholars. Speaking Persian does not show anything about being a Persian or not, just as using Arabic does not indicate origin. It is a fact that the Islamic world was very mixed those days. Most Muslims were very mixed and spoke Arabic and Persian those days in addition to their native languages. Ibni Sina was born in Central Asia and he could very well be of Tajik or Turkic origin, as well as of Persian or Arabic. -Serkan

--I think before psychological conclusions , you need to learn more Serkan , for a start look at the section below , should you do so you might think for yourself why for example Chatholic encyclopedia states that he was an Arab while all neutral international sources available online recognise him Persian , ethnicity does not matter here , the culture which influences a person and gets influenced directly by his works does matter -Pasha 18:04, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

-- I think it's quite obvious where Serkan is from, nice try!

--The only people with an inferiority complex are Turks and Arabs who cliam a Persian scholar who regarded himself as a Persian as their own to make themselves feel better. -Manny

People, just thought youd like to know:

1. Tajik is an Iranian language, culture, and ethnicity. The Tajiks themselves believe this. So even if Avicinna was a Tajik, he would still be an Iranian.
2. Avicinna also wrote in Persian too. Example, the book: "Daneshnameh ye Alaaee"--Zereshk 18:05, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Textbook Farsi is Dari. If he wrote in Persian it was not the same dialect which Iranians speak today. Persia was a VAST empire at the time of Ibn Sina. He was not "Iranian" because Iran was nonexistent. He was from Balkh which is present day Afgh/Tajik. Iranians claim all great muslim poets and writers as their own but if their poems are closely examined it is evident that they are NOT Iranian. Rudi.

Have you examined their poems closely , do you have any knowledge of Farsi/Dari and its dialects?-Pasha 18:04, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

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Depending on how old the reference to "Tajik" is, it might mean Arab, as "Tajik", derives from Tayyi', the name of an Arab tribe at the forfront of the Muslim conquests in the East (David M. McClory, micopsor@aol.com).

So Rudi with your logic, the Germans are "germanizing" Emmanuel Kant and a great many other great minds because their birthplace lies now in Russia or elsewhere! The Germans cann then disown Hitler! He was born in Austria! Nice logic!

Just wanted to make a point. Avicenna was Persian and tajik and Persian have the same meaning, that is Iranian-persian muslim. Avicennas mother was Zoroastrian and this is a good enough proof of his Iranian/Persian/Tajik origin as opposed to a Turkic origin.

Irania/Persian?

I did a search on Avicenna and he was described as either Iranian or Persian by these sources: Encylopaedia Britanica , Encylopeda dot com , American Heritage dictionary ,The Columbia encylopedia,MSN Encarta , Merriam-Webster dictionary, UNESCO , PDF format,NASA,Reference dot com, Wolfram Researchand French , German and Spanish versions of Misplaced Pages.So his origin is very clear.I added the term of Persian origin to the text , the term is used in an offical UNESCO document and carefuly chosen not to hurt Muslim feelings about international Muslim community while it is prefectly reasonable to call him a Persian philospher etc , in my edit I followed that example.Catholic encyclopedia introduces him as Arabian and the statement is rejected by an editorial note .Islamic sites generally do not mention his nationality.The most reliable sources available online are listed above.Pasha 18:14, 11 November 2005 (UTC)