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• Archives: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, January-July 2009

August 2009

Redirecting

Hi, again. I just found several more redirects you had made before I had contacted you initially.

Let me be frank, do not make redirects to cast lists or character lists again for real people. I'm getting a bunch of these deleted because they really serve no purpose and red links are much better. I have seen that you are continuing to do this when red links may actually convince people to write the real articles. I don't want to discuss this with you, again, so this is my last message to you unless I come across more redirects you have made.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:19, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

As a courtesy, this is the thread I started at WP:ANI about this.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 08:10, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I've just deleted many more of these, plus assorted other unhelpful redirects that you created. Please don't create redirects to non-notable items, and redirects that are unlikely search terms. Thank you. Black Kite 10:02, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to bother reading through the four paragraphs you sent me. I'll say this: your redirect creation was bad and it has been determined by administrators and other members of the community that it was bad. You took common Japanese names like Masayuki or Kotaro and made redirects or disambiguation pages solely dedicated to the fictional characters and then you took random combinations of English names and made redirects. Red links are much more effective which is what I told you last time, because it does not matter if an article is made or not. THERE IS NO NEED FOR ALL OF THE REDIRECTS YOU MADE. I don't care if there are or are not articles on these people on either this or the Japanese Misplaced Pages. There is no need to take their given name and surname or their full name and redirect it to a tangentially useful article. If living people exist, and we have no article on them, then we have no page on them, which includes not having a redirect. When they become notable or someone else comes across the red link, an article can be created.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I've removed your comments at ANI because they were all over and comprised about 5k of characters. Instead of responding all over the thread willynilly, just respond at the bottom in something that isn't essay length.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yuchun is an example of one of your bad redirects. "Yuchun" is a given name in China, and I can find multiple people listed on Misplaced Pages who have this name. That is why it should not be a redirect to Li Yuchun. It is equivalent to taking Michael and making it a redirect to Michael Jackson or Takeru and making it a redirect to Takeru "T.K." Takaishi. And there are other examples I could find, like your mashing together of names for other redirects.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:16, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

And Takeshi Kobayashi and Kobayashi Takeshi are also examples of bad redirects. He's a lyricist. He's in no way related to Haruka Ayase.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

And what the fuck is Asakeshi?—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Let me say it plainly. A supermajority of the redirects you have made are implausible names, not typos, and have nothing to do with the pages to which these are redirected. All of them should be deleted. Do not make redirects for anything other than fictional characters to the lists of fictional characters. Portmanteaus are useless and making redirects for real people to people who they are not or films in which they starred are not helpful. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia. Misplaced Pages is not a search engine for you to fine tune. I do not want a two paragraph reply to this.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Do you not get it? That's a bad redirect. Stop making redirects.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Note to self: see User talk:Tyciol/2009#Redirects for preceding conversation.

Would you stop? No one is going to be looking up "Elton Hercules", "David Charles Cunningham", "Ishii Leslie", or "Tsunehiko Kamijo".—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 14:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 10:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Redirect

• If they're character names that have a section in a "List of ... characters" section then that's fair enough. If they're minor non-notable characters that are just mentioned in the text, then they don't need one. Same for minor plot points, organisations in fiction, etc.
• Linking people's names who don't have an article to places where they're a minor character etc. is confusing for editors who may want to create an article on a genuinely notable person of that name.
• If someone's name is "Steven James Smith", then he doesn't need the redirects "Steven James" and "James Smith" unless they're well-known by one of those names. And they certainly don't need those redirects clogging up hatnotes and dab pages, that's completely misleading for the reader. You'll note that a lot of these were reverted by other editors before this subject was raised.
• Linking common surnames to an article isn't worthwhile unless that person is known by their surname only, and I found examples where you linked surnames to one article where there were more than one person with that name, so it should've been a dab. I even found one example (Bavin) where you linked a common surname to a completely irrelevant subject.
• Some of the redirects are even WP:BLP, for example the one I found linking minor people who were involved in a murder case to the murderer's article.
• Linking redlinks back to the article they're already in is creating a circular redirect and shouldn't be done.
• Black Kite 11:31, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Atsushi Okui

I completely disagree with you. We have the Atushi dab page so anyone looking for her will find that in the search box, or they will use google. If and when there is sufficient sourcing to make an article about her then that will be created. Redirecting a person to a small portion of their work seems illogical to me and I agree with the criteria that it was speedy deleted under. Regards, Woody (talk) 13:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

In my opinion Implausible is a very good word for it in this case. I think it is implausible that someone who is looking for information on a person will be placated with a link to a film they worked on once. I think they would prefer to see a red-link then be misled by a redirect to a film. It is not the only film she worked on, it does not define her as a person and it does not add to a reader's understanding in any way other than a short sentence saying she worked on the film. Woody (talk) 14:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If you want to "add more data" find sources on her and create an article not a redirect. It is clear you disagree with my thinking, but it is clear from the ANI discussion that quite a few people agree with mine. If she isn't notable enough then she shouldn't be linked. Regards, Woody (talk) 14:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Re-creating illogical redirects

I'll be quite clear about this. Some of your redirects are fine, some are debatable (and those can be discussed) - ones like this are utterly useless. Here's a Google search for "Elton Hercules" without his surname - no results at all. It looks like you're unaware how Western-style names and honorifics are used. You are making work for other users who have better things to do, and I would have thought, given the number of users who have expressed similar opinions here and on AN/I, that you would know better than to immediately recreate these. So - if you start re-creating more obviously pointless redirects like Elton Hercules, I will block you for disruption. Black Kite 14:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Tyciol, you wrote "For names that seem unusual like 'Bavin' I redirect under the assumption they are unique names (as many fictional and real famous people do create, their own names). If other people share the name, this does not eliminate the usefulness of a redirect."

If a user types in the single word "Bavin", it is not clear what they want. So they are provided with a Search page, showing where in the encyclopedia the word Bavin appears and giving the context. The Search page GIVES THE USER A CHANCE TO CHOOSE, whereas the redirect forces them in one (possibly wrong) direction. Disambiguation pages are created only if there is a serious logjam of possibilities, because they must be maintained: otherwise they may accidentally hide the very article the user is looking for. Furthermore, creating a redirect changes a red link into a blue one, fooling people into thinking that an article has been created when it has not. It is far, far better that there should be NO article than a phantom article. The system works as is, and your redirects are breaking it! Xanthoxyl (talk) 09:50, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

"What I am denying is that the solution is to delete it. The solution is to create a disambiguation page." No, in that case you (not other people) must create the disambiguation page instead of a redirect. Which means searching Misplaced Pages (and Google) for every important instance, and creating a well-formed page which follows the MOS. If you don't, other editors have to chase you all over the place trying to unhide all the possibilities which your redirects have hidden. The slapdash redirects are worse than nothing. If you still don't understand then please just concentrate on contributing text and forget about #R and dab. Xanthoxyl (talk) 04:44, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

"I will not forget about R/DAB, sorry, I know too much about it, an I'm very good at making both of them." Tyciol, you created about a dozen circular redirects on just one page! If you don't have time to make disambiguation pages, you certainly don't have time to type thousands of words in defence of these silly redirects. Are you sure you don't have editcountitis? Xanthoxyl (talk) 05:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

"A redirect can be circular, but one person cannot make a redirect circular unless he makes both the link on the page and the link back to the page. I only make the link back to the page." Okay, I give up. Xanthoxyl (talk) 06:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Tyciol, I am sorry that you have taken offence, but there is no-one on the PLANET who would search for Elton Hercules when looking for Elton John, and given that you put a hatnote on Sir Hercules - which is a racehorse - on the assumption that someone somewhere might search for Elton John by looking for Sir Hercules, then I can only suggest that your grasp of English naming conventions is not as sound as you think it is. And don't stalk me either - if you have something to say to me, say it on my talkpage Elen of the Roads (talk) 08:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)