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faq page Frequently asked questions

To view an answer, click the link to the right of the question. To view references used by an answer, you must also click the for references at the bottom of the FAQ.

Q1: Is there really a scientific consensus on climate change? A1: Yes. The IPCC findings of recent warming as a result of human influence are explicitly recognized as the "consensus" scientific view by the science academies of all the major industrialized countries. No scientific body of national or international standing presently rejects the basic findings of human influence on recent climate. This scientific consensus is supported by over 99% of publishing climate scientists. See also: Scientific consensus on climate change Q2: How can we say climate change is real when it's been so cold in such-and-such a place? A2: This is why it is termed "global warming", not "(such-and-such a place) warming". Even then, what rises is the average temperature over time – that is, the temperature will fluctuate up and down within the overall rising trend. To give an idea of the relevant time scales, the standard averaging period specified by the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) is 30 years. Accordingly, the WMO defines climate change as "a statistically significant variation in either the mean state of the climate or in its variability, persisting for an extended period (typically decades or longer)." Q3: Can't the increase of CO₂ be from natural sources, like volcanoes or the oceans? A3: While these claims are popular among global warming skeptics, including academically trained ones, they are incorrect. This is known from any of several perspectives:

Current human emissions of CO₂ are at least 100 times larger than volcanic emissions. Measurements of CO₂ levels over the past 50 years do not show any significant rises after eruptions. This is easily seen in a graph of CO₂ concentrations over the past 50 years: the strongest eruption during the period, that of Mount Pinatubo in 1991, produced no increase in the trend.
Isotopic analysis of atmospheric carbon dioxide shows the observed change in the ratio of carbon isotopes reflects the isotopic ratios in fossil fuels.
Atmospheric oxygen content is decreasing at a rate that agrees with the amount of oxygen being used to burn fossil fuels.
If the oceans were giving up some of their carbon dioxide, their carbon dioxide concentration would have to decrease. But instead we are measuring an increase in the oceans' carbon dioxide concentration, resulting in the oceans becoming more acidic (or in other words, less basic).

Q4: I think the article is missing some things, or has some things wrong. Can I change it? A4: Yes. Keep in mind that your points need to be based on documented evidence from the peer-reviewed literature, or other information that meets standards of verifiability, reliability, and no original research. If you do not have such evidence, more experienced editors may be able to help you find it (or confirm that such evidence does not exist). You are welcome to make such queries on the article's talk page but please keep in mind that the talk page is for discussing improvements to the article, not discussing the topic. There are many forums that welcome general discussions of global warming, but the article talk page is not such a forum. Q5: Why haven't the graphs been updated? A5: Two reasons:

There are many images used in the articles related to global warming, and there are many reasons why they may not be updated with the latest data. Some of the figures, like the Global Warming Map, are static, meaning that they are intended to show a particular phenomenon and are not meant to be updated frequently or at all. Others, like the Instrumental Temperature Record and Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Extent Anomalies, use yearly data and thus are updated once per year—usually in mid- to late-January, depending upon when the data is publicly released, and when a volunteer creates the image. Still others, like Mauna Loa Carbon Dioxide, use monthly data. These are updated semi-regularly.
However, just because an image is 6 months or a year old does not mean it is useless. Robert A. Heinlein is credited with saying, "Climate is what you expect, weather is what you get", meaning that climate is defined as a long-term average of weather, usually about 30 years. This length was chosen to eliminate the year-to-year variations. Thus, in terms of climate change, any given year's data is of little import.

Q6: Isn't climate change "just a theory"? A6: People who say this are abusing the word "theory" by conflating its common meaning with its scientific meaning. In common usage, "theory" can mean a hunch or guess, but a scientific theory, roughly speaking, means a coherent set of explanations that is compatible with observations and that allows predictions to be made. That the temperature is rising is an observation. An explanation for this (also known as a hypothesis) is that the warming is primarily driven by greenhouse gases (such as CO₂ and methane) released into the atmosphere by human activity. Scientific models have been built that predict the rise in temperature and these predictions have matched observations. When scientists gain confidence in a hypothesis because it matches observation and has survived intense scrutiny, the hypothesis may be called a "theory". Strictly speaking, scientific theories are never proven, but the degree of confidence in a theory can be discussed. The scientific models now suggest that it is "extremely likely" (>95%) to "virtually certain" (>99%) that the increases in temperature have been caused by human activity as discussed in the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report. Global warming via greenhouse gases by human activity is a theory (in the scientific sense), but it is most definitely not just a hunch or guess. Q7: Does methane cause more warming than CO₂? A7: It's true that methane is more potent molecule for molecule. But there's far less of it in the atmosphere, so the total effect is smaller. The atmospheric lifetime of methane (about 10 years) is a lot shorter than that of CO₂ (hundreds to thousands of years), so when methane emissions are reduced the concentration in the atmosphere soon falls, whereas CO₂ accumulates in the atmosphere over long periods. For details see the greenhouse gas and global warming potential articles. See also: Clathrate gun hypothesis and Arctic methane release Q8: How can you say there's a consensus when lists of "skeptical scientists" have been compiled? A8: Consensus is not the same as unanimity, the latter of which is impractical for large groups. Over 99% of publishing climate scientists agree on anthropogenic climate change. This is an extremely high percentage well past any reasonable threshold for consensus. Any list of "skeptical scientists" would be dwarfed by a comparably compiled list of scientists accepting anthropogenic climate change. Q9: Did climate change end in 1998? A9: One of the strongest El Niño events in the instrumental record occurred during late 1997 through 1998, causing a spike in global temperature for 1998. Through the mid-late 2000s this abnormally warm year could be chosen as the starting point for comparisons with later years in order to produce a cooling trend; choosing any other year in the 20th century produced a warming trend. This no longer holds since the mean global temperatures in 2005, 2010, 2014, 2015 and 2016 have all been warmer than 1998. More importantly, scientists do not define a "trend" by looking at the difference between two given years. Instead they use methods such as linear regression that take into account all the values in a series of data. The World Meteorological Organisation specifies 30 years as the standard averaging period for climate statistics so that year-to-year fluctuations are averaged out; thus, 10 years isn't long enough to detect a climate trend. Q10: Wasn't Greenland much warmer during the period of Norse settlement? A10: Some people assume this because of the island's name. In fact the Saga of Erik the Red tells us Erik named the new colony Greenland because "men will desire much the more to go there if the land has a good name." Advertising hype was alive and well in 985 AD.

While much of Greenland was and remains under a large ice sheet, the areas of Greenland that were settled by the Norse were coastal areas with fjords that, to this day, remain quite green. You can see the following images for reference:

A map of the Eastern Settlement
A satellite image of that area today
A map of the Western Settlement
A satellite image of that area today
A zoom in on the general area where the Brattahlíð (Erik the Red's farm) and Garðar farms were located

Q11: Are the IPCC reports prepared by biased UN scientists? A11: The IPCC reports are not produced by "UN scientists". The IPCC does not employ the scientists who generate the reports, and it has no control over them. The scientists are internationally recognized experts, most with a long history of successful research in the field. They are employed by various organizations including scientific research institutes, agencies like NASA and NOAA, and universities. They receive no extra pay for their participation in the IPCC process, which is considered a normal part of their academic duties. Q12: Hasn't global sea ice increased over the last 30 years? A12: Measurements show that it has not. Claims that global sea ice amounts have stayed the same or increased are a result of cherry picking two data points to compare, while ignoring the real (strongly statistically significant) downward trend in measurements of global sea ice amounts.

Arctic sea ice cover is declining strongly; Antarctic sea ice cover has had some much smaller increases, though it may or may not be thinning, and the Southern Ocean is warming. The net global ice-cover trend is clearly downwards.

See also: Arctic sea ice decline See also: Antarctic sea ice § Recent trends and climate change Q13: Weren't scientists telling us in the 1970s that the Earth was cooling instead of warming? A13: They weren't – see the article on global cooling. An article in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society has reviewed the scientific literature at that time and found that even during the 1970s the prevailing scientific concern was over warming. The common misperception that cooling was the main concern during the 1970s arose from a few studies that were sensationalized in the popular press, such as a short nine-paragraph article that appeared in Newsweek in 1975. (Newsweek eventually apologized for having misrepresented the state of the science in the 1970s.) The author of that article has repudiated the idea that it should be used to deny global warming. Q14: Doesn't water vapour cause 98% of the greenhouse effect? A14: Water vapour is indeed a major greenhouse gas, contributing about 36% to 70% (not 98%) of the total greenhouse effect. But water vapour has a very short atmospheric lifetime (about 10 days), compared with decades to centuries for greenhouse gases like CO₂ or nitrous oxide. As a result it is very nearly in a dynamic equilibrium in the atmosphere, which globally maintains a nearly constant relative humidity. In simpler terms, any excess water vapour is removed by rainfall, and any deficit of water vapour is replenished by evaporation from the Earth's surface, which literally has oceans of water. Thus water vapour cannot act as a driver of climate change.

Rising temperatures caused by the long-lived greenhouse gases will however allow the atmosphere to hold more vapour. This will lead to an increase in the absolute amount of water vapour in the atmosphere. Since water vapour is itself a greenhouse gas, this is an example of a positive feedback. Thus, whereas water vapour is not a driver of climate change, it amplifies existing trends.

See also: Greenhouse gas and Greenhouse effect Q15: Is the fact that other solar system bodies are warming evidence for a common cause (i.e. the sun)? A15: While some solar system bodies show evidence of local or global climate change, there is no evidence for a common cause of warming.

A 2007 National Geographic article described the views of Khabibullo Abdusamatov, who claims that the sun is responsible for global warming on both Earth and Mars. Abdussamatov's views have no support in the scientific community, as the second page of the National Geographic article makes clear: "'His views are completely at odds with the mainstream scientific opinion,' said Colin Wilson, a planetary physicist at England's Oxford University. Amato Evan, a climate scientist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, added that 'the idea just isn't supported by the theory or by the observations.'"
There is no reliable source claiming that Jupiter is warming. However, observations of the Red Spot Jr. storm suggest Jupiter could be in a period of global climate change. This is hypothesized to be part of an approximately 70 year global climate cycle, characterized by the relatively rapid forming and subsequent slow erosion and merging of cyclonic and anticyclonic vortices that help transfer heat between Jupiter's poles and equator. The cycle works like this: As the vortices erode, heat exchange is reduced; this makes the poles cool down and the equatorial region heat up; the resulting temperature difference destabilizes the atmosphere, leading to the creation of new vortices.
Pluto has an extremely elliptical orbit with a period of about 248 years. Data are sparse, but two data points from 1988 and 2002 indirectly suggest that Pluto warmed between those two dates. Pluto's temperature is heavily influenced by its elliptical orbit – it was closest to the sun in 1989 and has slowly receded since. Because of thermal inertia, it is expected to warm for a while after it passes perihelion (similar to how a sunny day's warmest temperatures happen during the afternoon instead of right at noon). No other mechanism has so far been seriously suggested. Here is a reasonable summary, and this paper discusses how the thermal inertia is provided by sublimation and evaporation of parts of Pluto's atmosphere. A more popular account is here and in Misplaced Pages's own article.

See also: Climate of Mars and Extraterrestrial atmosphere Q16: Do scientists support climate change just to get more money? A16: No,

Scientists participate in international organizations like the IPCC as part of their normal academic duties. They do not receive any extra compensation beyond possibly for direct expenses.
Scientific grants do not usually award any money to a scientist personally, only towards the cost of his or her scientific work.
There is not a shortage of useful things that scientists could study if they were not studying global warming.
- Understanding our climate system better brings benefits independent of global warming. For instance, more accurate weather predictions save a lot of money (on the order of billions of dollars a year), and everyone from insurance agents to farmers wants climate data. Scientists could get paid to study climate even if global warming did not exist.

Q17: Doesn't the climate vary even without human activity? A17: It does, but the fact that natural variation occurs does not mean that human-induced change cannot also occur. Climate scientists have extensively studied natural causes of climate change (such as orbital changes, volcanism, and solar variation) and have ruled them out as an explanation for the current temperature increase. Human activity is the cause at the 95 to 99 percent confidence level (see the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report for details). The high level of certainty in this is important to keep in mind to spot mention of natural variation functioning as a distraction. Q18: Should we include the view that climate change will lead to planetary doom or catastrophe? A18: This page is about the science of climate change. It doesn't talk about planetary doom or catastrophe. For a technical explanation, see catastrophic climate change, and for paleoclimatic examples see PETM and great dying. Q19: Is an increase in global temperature of, say, 3 degrees Celsius (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) important? A19: Though it may not sound like much, a global temperature rise of 3 degrees Celsius (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) is huge in climate terms. For example, the sea level rise it would produce would flood coastal cities around the world, which include most large cities.

Earth's climate has varied significantly over geological ages. The question of an "optimal temperature" makes no sense without a clear optimality criterion. Over geological time spans, ecosystems adapt to climate variations. But global climate variations during the development of human civilization (i.e. the past 12,000 years) have been remarkably small. Human civilization is highly adapted to the current stable climate. Agricultural production depends on the proper combination of soil, climate, methods, and seeds. Most large cities are located on the coast, and any significant change in sea level would strongly affect them. Migration of humans and ecosystems is limited by political borders and existing land use. In short, the main problem is not the higher absolute temperature but the massive and unprecedentedly fast change in climate and the related effects on human societies. The IPCC AR6 WG2 report has a detailed discussion of the effects of rapid climate change.

Q20: Why are certain proposals to change the article discarded, deleted, or ignored? Who is/was Scibaby? A20: Scibaby is/was a long term abusive sock-master (or coordinated group of sock masters) who has created 1,027 confirmed sock puppets, another 167 suspected socks, and probably many untagged or unrecognized ones. This page lists some recent creations. His modus operandi has changed over time, but includes proposing reasonably worded additions on the talk page that only on close examination turn out to be irrelevant, misinterpreted, or give undue weight to certain aspects. Scibaby is banned, and Scibaby socks are blocked as soon as they are identified. Some editors silently revert his additions, per WP:DENY, while others still assume good faith even for likely socks and engage them. Q21: What about this really interesting recent peer-reviewed paper I read or read about, that says...? A21: There are hundreds of peer-reviewed papers published every month in respected scientific journals such as Geophysical Research Letters, the Journal of Climate, and others. We can't include all of them, but the article does include references to individual papers where there is consensus that they best represent the state of the relevant science. This is in accordance with the "due weight" principle (WP:WEIGHT) of the Neutral point of view policy and the "Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information" principle (WP:IINFO) of the What Misplaced Pages is not policy. Q22: Why does the article define "climate change" as a recent phenomenon? Hasn't the planet warmed and cooled before? A22: Yes, the planet has warmed and cooled before. However, the term "climate change" without further qualification is widely understood to refer to the recent episode and often explicitly connected with the greenhouse effect. Per WP:COMMONNAME, we use the term in this most common meaning. The article Climate variability and change deals with the more general concept. Q23: Did the CERN CLOUD experiment prove that climate change is caused not by human activity but by cosmic rays? A23: No. For cosmic rays to be causing global warming, all of the following would have to be true, whereas only the italicized one was tested in the 2011 experiment:

Solar magnetic field must be getting stronger
The number of cosmic rays reaching Earth must be dropping
Cosmic rays must successfully seed clouds, which requires:

Cosmic rays must trigger aerosol (liquid droplet) formation,
These newly-formed aerosols must grow sufficiently through condensation to form cloud-condensation nuclei (CCN),
The CCN must lead to increased cloud formation, and
Cloud cover on Earth must be declining.

Perhaps the study's lead author, Jasper Kirkby, put it best: "...it actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate, but it's a very important first step." Q24: I read that something can't fix climate change. Is this true? A24: Yes, this is true for all plausible single things including: "electric cars", "planting trees", "low-carbon technology", "renewable energy", "Australia", "capitalism", "the doom & gloom approach", "a Ph.D. in thermodynamics". Note that it is problematic to use the word "fix" regarding climate change, as returning the climate to its pre-industrial state currently appears to be feasible only over a timeframe of thousands of years. Current efforts are instead aimed at mitigating (meaning limiting) climate change. Mitigation is strived for through the combination of many different things. See Climate change mitigation for details. References

^ Powell, James (20 November 2019). "Scientists Reach 100% Consensus on Anthropogenic Global Warming". Bulletin of Science, Technology & Society. 37 (4): 183–184. doi:10.1177/0270467619886266. S2CID 213454806. Retrieved 15 November 2020.
^ "Commission for Climatology Frequently Asked Questions". World Meteorological Organization. Archived from the original on 5 May 2020. Retrieved 14 July 2020.
Harris, Tom. "Scientists who work in the fields liberal arts graduate Al Gore wanders through contradict his theories about man-induced climate change". National Post. Archived from the original on 30 August 2011. Retrieved 11 January 2009 – via Solid Waste & Recycling. {{cite web}}: |archive-date= / |archive-url= timestamp mismatch; 4 February 2012 suggested (help)
Arriola, Benj. "5 Good Arguments Why GlobalWarming is NOT due to Man-made Carbon Dioxide". Global Warming Awareness Blog. Retrieved 11 January 2009.
Ahlbeck, Jarl. "Increase of the Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Concentration due to Ocean Warming". Retrieved 11 January 2009.
Kirby, Simon (11 April 2007). "Top scientist debunks global warming". Herald Sun. Retrieved 11 January 2009.
Brahic, Catherine (16 May 2007). "Climate myths: Human CO2 emissions are too tiny to matter". New Scientist. Retrieved 11 January 2009.
"More Notes on Global Warming". Physics Today. May 2005. Retrieved 10 September 2007.
Battle, M.; et al. (2000). "Global Carbon Sinks and Their Variability Inferred from Atmospheric O2 and d13C". Science. 287 (5462): 2467–2470. doi:10.1126/science.287.5462.2467.
The Royal Society (2005). "Ocean acidification due to increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide". Retrieved 9 May 2012.
"Met Office: Climate averages". Met Office. Archived from the original on 24 February 2009. Retrieved 23 January 2009.
Climate Central (18 January 2017). "2016 Was the Hottest Year on Record". Climate Central. Retrieved 1 February 2017.
The Saga of Erik the Red, 1880, English translation by J. Sephton, from the original Eiríks saga rauða.
"Cold Hard Facts". Tamino. 8 January 2009. Retrieved 21 January 2009.
Peterson, T. C.; et al. (2008). "The Myth of the 1970s Global Cooling Scientific Consensus". Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society. 89 (9): 1325. Bibcode:2008BAMS...89.1325P. doi:10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1.
Gwynne, Peter (28 April 1975). "The Cooling World". Newsweek. p. 64.
Verger, Rob (23 May 2014). "Newsweek Rewind: Debunking Global Cooling". Newsweek.
Gwynne, Peter (21 May 2014). "My 1975 'Cooling World' Story Doesn't Make Today's Climate Scientists Wrong". insidescience.org.
Ravilious, Kate (28 February 2007). "Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says". National Geographic News. Archived from the original on 2 March 2007. Retrieved 6 March 2008.
Ravilious, Kate (28 February 2007). "Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says (page 2)". National Geographic News. Archived from the original on 2 March 2007. Retrieved 6 March 2008.
Marcus, Philip; Shetty, Sushil; Asay-Davis, Xylar (November 2006). Velocities and Temperatures of Jupiter's Great Red Spot and the New Red Oval and Implications for Global Climate Change. American Physical Society. Retrieved 9 May 2007.
Goudarzi, Sara (4 May 2006). "New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change". Space.com. Retrieved 9 May 2007.
Philip, Marcus S. (22 April 2004). "Prediction of a global climate change on Jupiter" (PDF). Nature. 428 (6985): 828–831. Retrieved 9 May 2007.
Yang, Sarah (21 April 2004). "Researcher predicts global climate change on Jupiter as giant planet's spots disappear". University of California, Berkeley. Retrieved 9 May 2007.
Elliot, J. L.; et al. (10 July 2003). "The recent expansion of Pluto's atmosphere". Nature (424): 165–168. doi:10.1038/nature01762.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
Foerster, Jim. "What's The Difference Between Private Weather Companies And The National Weather Service?". Forbes.
Eilts, Mike (27 November 2018). "The Role of Weather—and Weather Forecasting—in Agriculture". DTN.
"What do the CERN experiments tell us about global warming?". Skeptical Science. 2 September 2011.
Brumfiel, Geoff (23 August 2011). "Cloud Formation May Be Linked to Cosmic Rays". Scientific American.

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Global Warming Graphs

Should we really have this many Hockey-stick graphs on the page? Skeptics might catch on to our plan to skew the data based on old errors.--EchoRevamped (talk) 06:32, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I had added a more recent graph from Satellite temperature measurements (File:Satellite Temperatures.png) to the graphs on this page. It is not currently supportive of the premise of global warming. It is however accurate and more recent than the graphs currently displayed. The current graph is 10 years out of date. The data on this page is stale. I will add the graph again unless I hear of any valid objections.Veteran0101 (talk) 04:18, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for attempting to update this graph, but I am not sure where it is...did you add the updated version? Can we have one with actual error bars on it? Subsumee (talk) 04:27, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Satellite_Temperatures.png . It is already linked to the following pages.

   * Satellite temperature measurements
   * Leipzig Declaration
   * Talk:Global warming
   * Temperature record
   * User:Dragons flight/Images
   * Friends of Science
   * Talk:List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming/Archive 7
   * List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming

Veteran0101 (talk) 05:23, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Are those lines linear least square fits to the individual data sets? If so, is there an accompanying R-squared "goodness-of-fit" value for each? Thank you. 72.57.184.21 (talk) 21:03, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

See Satellite temperature measurements for a further explanation. Veteran0101 (talk) 01:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

What "current graph" was 10 years out of date? As far as i can see, they are (and were) all pretty up2date. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 01:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I got permission to upload and use a 'Global Temperature' chart File:Chart-LongtermGTemps.jpg that demonstrates the various periods of global warming since 2500 BC. It offers a much better perspective and frame of reference on recent warming trends (and fluctuations). I'm just not sure where to incorporate it into the article yet.
-K10wnsta (talk) 20:10, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the though but no, we won't be using that. It is just about sourceless, and badly wrong, and we already have better ones William M. Connolley (talk) 23:04, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. It has no methodology, it's not published in a peer-reviewed venue, and it contains extremely dubious historical claims unrelated to climate (the Hebrew exodus from Egypt is generally considered a myth). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:20, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Rainfall trends?

Due to higher average temperatures, there is more evaporation from the oceans and in a dynamical equilibrium situation, there must be more rainfall. So, I was wondering if the total of the global rainfall records is a reliable indictator of global warming? Count Iblis (talk) 18:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

This isn't a forum for GW, so this question would have been better asked at the reference desk But see How much more rain will global warming bring? -Atmoz (talk) 23:20, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk Topic: update article title to "Global warming change", thus combining "Global warming" and "Climate Change"

Talk Topic: update article title to "Global warming change", thus combining "Global warming" and bigger picture "Climate Change"

Hmm...I'm not sure what the advantage would be of doing that. Could you please explain why the article title should be changed, and how your proposal would be an improvement?--CurtisSwain (talk) 07:49, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The first sentence does not seem intellectually honest. I have not found a reliable reference to indicate that "global warming" has a defining characteristic of "mid 20th century". This would lead one to believe that "global warming" has not happened previously during the history of earth. There are countless references to indicate that it is not just "mid 20th century".

I have found a reliable source for the definition of "global warming". http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/global+warming 1. "an increase in the earth's average atmospheric temperature that causes corresponding changes in climate and that may result from the greenhouse effect." 2. "An increase in the average temperature of the earth's atmosphere, especially a sustained increase sufficient to cause climatic change."

Perhaps changing the title to something like "Recent Global Warming" or "Rapid Global Warming" or remove the time scope of the first sentence would provide a more intellectually honest statement.

I don't understand "intellectually honest"; "Global Warming" in the public mind and the vast, vast majority of discussions is related to recent warming. On Wiki we usually try to use the most common term. Global warming has indeed gone on in the past, but other articles cover past warming, which is why there is the "For ..." at the surface. I don't think that there is a way to use the common usage of "global warming" for what people will be looking for, while also including all warming episodes. Awickert (talk) 17:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for response. One definition of "intellectually honest" is "honesty in performing intellectual activities like thought or communication". I guess I am looking for a more accurate and more permanance than recent discussions, most common terms, common usage, catering to what people will be looking for and so on. Perhaps I should search for a more scientific approach dealing with accuracy rather than Misplaced Pages since this resource seems to focus on recent conversations, common jargon, etc.

"Combining" when an article is this long just seems the wrong way to go. As for your comments on accuracy I suggest you read around the meaning of language to help your perspective to clear. --BozMo talk 11:19, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Please read WP:NEO. The term "global warming change" isn't used by anyone, therefore it can't be an article title here. Oren0 (talk) 17:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

This is why this needs to be amended to say that Global Warming is a scientific THEORY. Right now the article presents Global Warming as scientific fact, which it is not. There's no discussion that Global Warming has come under intense scrutiny in the scientific community. It needs to be changed. jbird669 (talk) 18:37, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

jbird669, please read the FAQ. The Question 8 is addressing that issue. --McSly (talk) 20:16, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

jbird669, intense scrutiny may be found at History of climate change science and the resources provided in that article.--CurtisSwain (talk) 23:24, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

FAQ question 8 says That the temperature is rising is an "observation". However, that is not true. The temperature is actually the output of a proprietary and highly complex model. The FAQ does make it clear that the supposition that increasing CO2 causes global warming is a theory. In addition, the majority of the article is about the theory and not the "obervation". Q Science (talk) 06:29, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Please take a look at where the OP is attempting to insert "theory", it may also be of use to consider why the OP thinks that theory should be inserted. (what is a scientific "fact"?) --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 06:36, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that the phrase "Global Warming" (like most dictionary entries) has several very different definitions. The article itself uses several of these without any specific distinctions. In particular, many people want the term "anthropogenic" added when CO2 is the cause and a different phrase when simply discussing warming without attributing cause. Q Science (talk) 09:36, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that this might help: WP:WTA#Theories_and_hypotheses --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 06:36, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Theory, Law and Fact in Science. TLDR summary: facts are consistent observations; theories explain facts. A scientific theory is much stronger than a scientific fact. See also Evolution as theory and fact. -Atmoz (talk) 06:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I enjoyed those, thanks. However, the Webster definition is a bit looser. (Actually, a lot.) Q Science (talk) 09:20, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

One should take into consideration an early statement of Pielke jr about the Real Climate Bllog, which applies as well to this article: The Controversy ist not so mucb about science, but about politics and political measures, to use only scientific sources and to leave out quality press repeats this error again. --Polentario (talk) 19:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 global temps

I just came across this article about winter forecasts in the US, and most of it doesn't concern this article. However, the last paragraph reads:

NOAA also announced on Thursday that globally September was the second warmest month in 130 years of recordkeeping, just behind 2005. World temperatures last month averaged 60.1 degrees Fahrenheit (15.6 degrees Celsius), which is 1.1 degrees (0.6 degrees Celsius) above normal. Three-quarters of the way through the year, 2009 is lining up to be the sixth warmest year on record.

This seems to support claims that global warming is indeed still happening. Is this, especially the part about September being the second warmest month since recordkeeping began, worth a mention in the article, or in a related article if not this one? Tim meh 20:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

This falls into the same trap as those who think global warming is over because it's been a chilly June or because winter ice extend is the same in ne month as it was in the same month 30 years ago. The key is the multi-decade rising trend in global temperatures, during which of course some years are cooler than others. The trend is still there. --TS 20:46, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

See FAQ #3. Ignignot (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thanks for pointing that out; it makes my comments look a bit stupid! Tim meh 21:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

If you knew everything already, then why would you be reading an encyclopedia? No worries. Ignignot (talk) 13:42, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Ice Core Data

I'm skeptical about AGW and have read about ice core data, if closely examined, show CO2 levels rising hundreds of years after temperatures rise. Before digging up references, I'm sure there is a standard response to this which I'd like to hear. Rkcannon (talk) 05:54, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Where have you read about the ice core data? I would like to look at this. The problem isn't there is not listening by many of the climate scientists, it is there is always an "explanation" when the data doesn't fit the model... El Nino, La Nina, Pacific Decadal Oscillation, aerosols, etc. etc.....warming or cooling, they have it covered. And then they will say they already explained this long ago, and we already knew that is was going to cool before it was going to warm, etc. etc. For this article, it seems like it would be best to add a peer reviewed article indicating the data, and then see what happens. It will likely be deleted, but at least you did your bit for science. Subsumee (talk) 06:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

or . I've trimmed your question to remove the inflammatory "groupthink" on the assumption that you were actually interested in the ice core data William M. Connolley (talk) 08:00, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

And internally, Attribution of recent climate change#Warming sometimes leads CO2 increases William M. Connolley (talk) 08:01, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It’s also covered briefly in Global warming controversy under the Greenhouse gases section.--CurtisSwain (talk) 08:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Q: Should this go into the FAQ? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:32, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

A: Yes, it is a common question and IMO a compelling one for those who do not know the details differences between Milakovitch-driven glacial cycles and present-day warming (i.e., which of multiple variables are doing the forcing). Awickert (talk) 09:47, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

A picture: . Dragons flight (talk) 09:48, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, a nice FAQ about this would be helpful if someone with sufficient knowledge wants to take the time to do that.--CurtisSwain (talk) 10:48, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I mainly use New Zealand Climate Science web site. (http://www.climatescience.org.nz/) Based on the blogs and responses posted above by WMC, it is confirmed that CO2 could be lagging the temp increase by a few hundred years, 800 +- 800 potentially. This further demonstates lack of understanding because it is also admitted that the initial driver of the temperature changes or the CO2 changes is not known, and it is certainly not man. These unknowns are rarely mentioned but should be the main focus of discussion IMO. To me it does not support the theory that CO2 is a significant driver of climate change because one should see a rise in CO2 followed by a rise in temperatures, not the reverse or no effect at all, going back 100k+ years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rkcannon (talk • contribs) 13:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome to use whatever sources you want to for your personal entertainment. But New Zealand Climate Science is not a scientific organization, but pure propaganda, run by a list of well-known contrarians. I suggest you read some real science, like the IPCC reports, the statements of the major academies of science, or, if you like to stay local, the pages of the Royal Society of New Zealand here. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:49, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

So far I have not used anything from that site in this discussion, only what WMC provided, except I admit it has colored my thinking. I also like to look at both sides. Restricting myself to "real science" from certain sites only can lead to groupthink as I said before it was deleted. But the points raised I think are still valid. I have no connection to either side of the argument. Rkcannon (talk) 14:16, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

You might enjoy Dr. Hansen's paper Climate change and trace gases where he says that the ice core data is wrong. His claim is that, if the data was correct, then the CO2 would "warm the upper kilometre of the ocean by approximately 160 C". Q Science (talk) 15:01, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

What, specifically, do you mean by "wrong"? All data and all interpretations are "wrong" in some sense. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

He says that the increases in CO2 actually happened at the same time as, or slightly before, the increases in temperature, even though the data presented in all the other studies indicates that the CO2 concentration increased several hundred to several thousand years after the temperature increases. So, that is what I meant by wrong. Q Science (talk) 15:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I am disinclined to believe Dr. Hansen on this one, especially since all he says is that "two events 800 yr apart and with 1 kyr error bars are nearly synchronous" which is an interesting use of a PDF and dodges the lead/lag issue in question, and because of my general distrust of him on using real data since he was telling everyone a few years ago that sea level would rise on the order of . Also, he has no mechanism for CO2 to vary and lead temperature in such a predictable pattern as Milankovitch cycles provide, which could be because he doesn't seem to touch on this issue too much in my skimming of the paper - it is clearly not the main point of the article. Since we know that temperature rises can lead to the release of CO2 from certain reservoirs, I would not be alone in saying that temperature and CO2 are simply coupled and can interchangably lead or lag. In the Pleistocene, quite a few geologists (including myself) would say that CO2 served to amplify Milankovitch cyclicity and cause the temperature swings that resulted in the glacial and interglacial periods. Awickert (talk) 17:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I worked through that paper (for the superficial meaning of "working through" of a non-specialist with limited time) some time ago. It's been a while, but IIRC his claim is about one particular termination that seems to show a 5000 year lag. He accepts that "forcing and temperature change had to be synchronous within a few centuries" (which agrees with the commonly cited 800+/-200 years). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you (Stephan), however I have yet to find the place where Q Science states that, "the increases in CO2 actually happened at the same time as, or slightly before, the increases in temperature". As a matter of fact (and now that I read the paper more I become less skeptical of Hansen's work), he contradicts what Q Science says by saying "The temperature change appears to usually lead the gas changes by typically several hundred years, as discussed below and indicated in ﬁgure 1b. This suggests that warming climate causes a net release of these GHGs by the ocean, soils and biosphere. GHGs are thus a powerful ampliﬁer of climate change, comparable to the surface albedo feedback, as quantiﬁed below. The GHGs, because they change almost simultaneously with the climate, are a major ‘cause’ of glacial-to-interglacial climate change, as shown below, even if, as seems likely, they slightly lag the climate change and thus are not the initial instigator of change," which I find to be very much satisfactory, Awickert (talk) 17:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The FAQ

Main page: Talk:Global warming/FAQ

I'm always amazed at how many members of the public (i.e. non-climate-scientists) feel that they have just thought out, or found out, or stumbled across the crucial scientific fact that all the world's experts have systematically missed for years or decades. In creationist circles, as noted in a short thread above, the same thing happened for a while over evolution. Yet it never happens in other areas of science (some where there is possibly more of a chance of a member of the public finding or thinking out something new, like entomology, or string theory, or hypersensitivity). The best thing here is the FAQ page, which apart from answering the question, by being pre-prepared also proves to each asker that they're not the first to think of it. --Nigelj (talk) 16:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reply to Nigelj) Actually, it doesn't surprise me, and I think it's a natural reaction to the amount of shoddy partisan reporting that is done on the topic of global warming. Most people know little about the science of global warming, but all the non-scientists I've talked to have done a little bit of interested research. I think that the poor communication about the science behind global warming leads to people questioning the world around them and what they are told - which is a fantastic thing IMO - but leads to a number of intuitive objections to global warming which are not addressed in most readily-available resources. The FAQ here is an excellent source, but unfortunately by the time people land themselves on Wiki, they have rather entrenched views and have drawn the battle lines. So I guess this is more a philosophical reply to a philosophical question and not so directly related to this page, but I think I might ask some of my non-scientist friends (who lie across the political spectrum) if they'd mind reading through a few climate articles on Wiki and giving me feedback on what they do and don't feel satisfied about in the knowledge that they acquired in reading the articles. Awickert (talk) 07:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if the FAQ could (or should) be brought out from being a subpage of a talk page, and be promoted to article status in its own right? What would it get called to meet WP naming guidelines? Could it keep the current collapsible format? Should it? Would it become just another junk-magnet to monitor and police? Maybe it doesn't get targeted so much now, because it is not so well read, but is that really a good thing? A lot of work and thought has clearly gone into it, for it to stay hidden away like it is. Just thinking out loud. --Nigelj (talk) 18:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the FAQ's purpose is to let people with good intentions avoid repeating the same discussion over and over again on the talk page. Therefore it needs to be on the talk page. Unfortunately there is nothing to be done for people without good intentions. Ignignot (talk) 18:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

"Cooling" on the global warming consensus

This news feature gives an excellent summary of how the current consensus on global warming seems to be crumbling:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/13/ED7O1A4IQU.DTL

Could someone please add this to the "Debate and skepticism" section of this article? TS Handon (talk) 03:22, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I think you need to look at WP:weight and Scientific opinion on climate change to understand why the article you're citing holds nothing relevant for this page. But, feel free to add Piers Corbyn to the List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming. Easterbrook is already listed and Carlin isn't a scientist.--CurtisSwain (talk) 06:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

WP:weight "Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source". The BBC and about 50 other news outlets have stated that there has recently been cooling/no warming/paused warming. Neutrality requires that the article represent all significant viewpoints - which must include the viewpoint that we are currently in a cooling period. Only by redefining "reliable" to mean "scientific" and then only by limiting it to those with a clear self interest who believe we are currently and actively warming is it possible to claim WP:weight supports this lack of Neutrality (NPOV) in the article. 88.110.76.120 (talk) 20:32, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Also in WP:weight: "Misplaced Pages aims to present competing views in proportion to their representation in reliable sources on the subject." By my estimate something from 10-50% of all news articles on global warming either dismiss the idea of manmade warming, or state it to be hugely overblown. There is therefore a significant body of opinion that holds the opinion that global warming is a hoax, scam, etc. based on bad science. There is also strong evidence to support this view and clear allegations of misuse of data which simply isn't mentioned in the article, no way on earth can this article be said to be complying with WP:weight.88.110.76.120 (talk) 20:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

And Corbyn is yet another weather man with airs of academe. Simonm223 (talk) 15:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Global warming will spur growth of forests

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/10/20/20greenwire-global-warming-could-spur-growth-in-northwest-43219.html

This NYTimes reference provides a good summary of predicted increased growth of forests, due to global warming. Suggestions on where to add this? Tom Dietz (talk) 06:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Stick to peer-reviewed articles that are Critically Important, don't rely on Broadcast And Bulletin media, else You become Stale and Old hat—Content is King. -Atmoz (talk) 07:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Right. You’ll need the original piece as published in Forest Ecology and Management. However, the scope of the study appears to be too narrow for this article as it only concerns the Pacifc Northwest. But, it might be of some value to Effects of global warming and/or Regional effects of global warming.--CurtisSwain (talk) 09:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Precipitation rates

"TAIPEI (AFP) – Global warming will cause the amount of heavy rain dumped on Taiwan to triple over the next 20 years.... Data showing the incidence of heavy rain has doubled in the past 45 years, coinciding with a global rise in temperatures, said Liu Shaw-chen of Taiwan's leading research institute Academia Sinica...." -- http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/taiwanclimatewarmingtyphoon

Presumably, additional heating induces more evaporation and transpiration, so does the global projection for total aggregate precipitation vary in proportion to temperature linearly? How much more total precipitation is associated with a 1 degree C. increase in temperature? 99.60.3.23 (talk) 06:59, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

No-one else has stepped up (Boris?) so I will. Precip does not vary linearly with T, more like exponentially (so how much extra precip is assoc with 1 oC depends on what your base T is). Local precip will vary much more than global. You might find fig 10.6 of chapter 10 helpful: http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter10.pdf William M. Connolley (talk) 09:51, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Figure 10.36 on page 828 (PDF page 82) is also very helpful. But the different scenarios in this document, and the news I've been reading about, suggest that projections have been changing rapidly. What is the date of that AR4 report? 99.62.185.62 (talk) 11:16, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Its various parts have been published over much of 2007. See IPCC AR4. Cut-off for inclusion of results will have been somewhat earlier. As far as I can tell, nothing in your sources is substantially new - we just choose which of the many possible trajectories for emissions we are following. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 11:53, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

A. How far are increased precipitation rates expected to raise 10-year flood plain levels?

B. How much have projections for future greenhouse gas concentrations changed over the past 10 years? 99.62.185.160 (talk) 07:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC) ]

NASA funded study shows increase in the suns radiation output

In what could be the simplest explanation for one component of global warming, a 2003 study shows the Sun's radiation has increased by .05 percent per decade since the late 1970s. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by EricTyle (talk • contribs) 04:05, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

You want Solar variation guv. Plus the grace to realise that we've already read all the 2003 studies of any interest. Ecclesiastes 1:9-14 William M. Connolley (talk) 08:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't sweat the condescension EricTyle. There are a number of editors that try to minimize any information that doesn't pander to their AGW GHG bias, especially that relating to the possibility that variations in total solar irradiance are significant climate change forcings Dikstr (talk) 21:16, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

What's being minimized? The study referred to in the space.com article was published by R. Willson, et al. in Geophysical Research Letters in 2003. It's used twice in the Solar variation article (footnotes 6 and 30). And if you really want to know what NASA says about the sun's influence on our climate, it's best to go to them directly: . Scroll down and see "Solar irradiance". Or, see NASA's FAQ What is the role of the sun and solar cycles in climate change and global warming?. You'll see that the "Solar variation" section in this article is consistent with what NASA says. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CurtisSwain (talk • contribs) 21:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The JPL (NASA) references are worth perusing as a summary of the view of solar forcing among climate modelers at least up to the past decade. However, science marches on and more recent findings indicate variations of total solar irradiance may account for up to 50% of the climate forcing during the industrial era, for example: Scafetta, N., and B. J. West (2007), Phenomenological reconstructions of the solar signature in the Northern Hemisphere, surface temperature records since 1600, J. Geophys. Res., 112, D24S03, doi:10.1029/2007JD008437.Dikstr (talk) 19:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Please stop responding to Scibaby threads. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 22:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Not exactly a monument to the exchange of ideas.Dikstr (talk) 19:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Look the fact is the whole solar system is warming up because of increased radiation output from the sun. This is relevant to this article especially considering it begins "Global warming is the increase in the average temperature of the Earth's near-surface air and oceans since the mid-20th century and its projected continuation." This puts the data from NASA well within the scope of the article. EricTyle (talk) 11:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, that "fact" is wrong. See Talk:Global_warming/FAQ Q16. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Cooling trend?

88.110.76.120-I think you raise some valid questions, but I believe they've already been covered in both the FAQ (see #3) and in the article itself under Temperature changes. Your suggestion that this article "explain that 8 years is not significant in scientific terms and that the recent cooling is much smaller than the overall warming during the instrumental record" is a good idea, and that's basically what the section on Temperature changes does. It's just articulated differently and it's not in the lede section. And, I think you're correct in that many commentators are saying that "global warming has stopped", but this is certainly not due to a "lack of reporting of the recent cooling by the scientific community." Where do you think the popular press get their temperature readings? They aren't monitoring global temperature trends themselves. They get their information from the scientific community, and then misinterpret it and spin it in a way that sells newspapers. That's why we use peer reviewed scientific literature and not the mass media. But, thank you for bringing up the whole "cooling trend" issue. It's a definitely a popular misperception, and it should probably be expounded upon in Global warming controversy.--CurtisSwain (talk) 23:21, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, of course, the paper is not "from the NCEE", but from an unauthorized "report" by an unqualified individual employee - an economist. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

More importantly, it appears that the whole 'cooling phase' issue only arises based on global temperature data that does not take proper account of the Arctic (i.e. Hadley Center data, rather than GISS data) If we're going to discuss the limitations of focussing on ~10 years of data in a century-sized trend with large 11- to 30-year cyclic trends, this is probably an even more important point. --Nigelj (talk) 18:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Ignorance is not Bliss - It is Disaster

Let's assume for the moment that the public is convinced that humans are creating global warming due to CO2 emissions. Then governments make laws about emissions to stop global warming. How much reduced emissions are enough? How much reduced emissions will have adverse effects on the global climate? Who knows the answers to these questions? Who do you trust to contol the atmosphere? What if they are wrong? The governments have not done very well with global economics, what makes you think they will do any better with global climate? DasV (talk) 12:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Please read WP:SOAP. This page is for discussion about the article and ways to improve it, not general discussion of the topic, or a vaguely related topic. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:59, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Did you read anything in the article about how CO2 emissions were to be controlled? How much is enough? How much is too much? I did not see anything related to this ... who would be expected to excercise control over the climate, or any safeguards. You don't think this is important to an article about Global Warming that suggests (asserts) humans are doing this, and can take steps to undo it? We just leave the article with the notion that 'faith' in our scientific and government community will fix things? Even on the talk page you don't think anyone should ask these questions? DasV (talk) 13:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

This article deals with the science behind global warming. It takes no stand on what should be done, or how - it describes, to the best of our knowledge, what is happening, and why. You might want to look at Politics of global warming or mitigation of global warming. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

NASA research in journal Science indicates role of methane in global warming underestimated

I have added some content to the article, noting the latest peer reviewed NASA research in the journal Science that indicates the role of methane in global warming has been underestimated. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/326/5953/716 and also see http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment/2009-10-29-methane-global-warming_N.htm Artwerkgal (talk) 05:01, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

You mentioned when undoing my edit that there are other very recent sources. I went through all of them, and found these two:

Reducing abrupt climate change risk using the Montreal Protocol and other regulatory actions to complement cuts in CO2 emissions published 12 October 2009
Escape of methane gas from the seabed along the West Spitsbergen continental margin published 6 August 2009

I think that the first of these is definitely too recent, and the second is likely too recent, so I'll probably be removing them removing or resourcing associated material.

The issue with talking about new research, especially that published in journals like Nature and Science, is that there can be issues with the research. That is when other researchers write in comments, and the original authors respond. It is therefore important to wait to see if other scientists have issues with the research.

Others issues in contributing to this reasonably complicated-to-edit article is that every scientific source is peer-reviewed (making stating that redundant), and since it is a featured article, the sources should be referenced in the same style as the others, Awickert (talk) 07:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

~~Are the ubiquitous IPCC reports peer reviewed? Are these a "scientific source." ? Artwerkgal (talk) 08:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)~~

The IPCC reports are summaries of peer-reviewed literature that are written by committees of scientists (peers). So yes. Awickert (talk) 08:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes. The IPCC reports go through multiple levels of review, with both internal and external reviewers. You will often see "sceptics" claiming the status of IPCC reviewers. The IPCC also has the advantage that it only surveys existing literature, i.e. it already is one level higher than individual research papers, and thus more robust against errors. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:25, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a thread of a banned user, but An observationally based energy balance for the Earth since 1950 may interest some watching this page. -Atmoz (talk) 17:33, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

The 'thread of a banned user' is the abstract of a published paper in a highly respected journal. It has far more significance than most of the jibber-jabber in this section. Dikstr (talk) 21:32, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Let's find a way to include this compelling data. 173.126.68.245 (talk) 02:13, 7 November 2009 (UTC) 20:29, 7 November 2009 (UTC)Dikstr (talk)

Where is the Misplaced Pages rule that states the latest peer reviewed research cannot be included in articles? If this is the case, we better get our DELETE buttons ready, as there will be a great deal of material to remove from many technical articles to bring them into compliance! Y4spinmast8 (talk) 06:36, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

"The latest peer-reviewed research" can be included, but we ned to keep WP:WEIGHT in mind. Not every published paper can be included, especially not in a general article such as this. This paper is about a relatively obscure aspect of global warming, namely the global warming potential of different gasses in combination with other pollutants. It does not change the big picture. To be able to gauge the impact of this paper, we need to wait for reactions from the scientific community. Thus, there is no good reason to include it now (and probably never in this article, though it may be more suitable in global warming potential). People react skittish to the proposal to include this paper because Artwerkgal is an obvious (and now confirmed) sock puppet of the long-term abusive editor Scibaby, who has created on the order of 600 sock puppets, all to disrupt work on the global warming articles and, in particular, to waste our time. See Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Scibaby and Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Scibaby. After people have explained the same story or very similar stories to about 50 or so new users, all of which eventually turn out to be disruptive socks, their enthusiasm for these discussions drops. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:29, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The editors functioning as self-appointed 'sock puppet' filters of what gets discussed and how are the problem for scientific credibility in Misplaced Pages, not the solution. As long as the ideas, references and discussions are relevant, constructive, cogent and challenging it doesn't matter who or 'what' is providing them. The point is having the discussion. Editors who challenge the right of others to present their viewpoints (frequently without explanation) give the appearance of attempting to protect ideas that are indefensible.Dikstr (talk) 18:41, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Development over time

The article should describe how the reports of the seriousness of global warming have changed over time. Is this methane problem as substantial, more substantial, or less substantial than the variations in median temperature predictions in the scientific literature over time? A tertiary source like an encyclopedia should be honest and forthright about how the secondary literature has changed. In this case it should be easy to compare projections from the 1990-era IPCC reports with modern projections, shouldn't it? 76.254.70.140 (talk) 07:36, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

You've changed your IP, but you're still the same person. And you're still banned. -Atmoz (talk) 14:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

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