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"The Ukraine"
Why is it sometimes called "The Ukraine" rather than "Ukraine"? Tipi Tiki (talk) 04:45, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
- My impression is that it normally used to be referred to as "the Ukraine" in English, before it became an independent country; now it's a country it's always "Ukraine". But someone may have more reliable information.--Kotniski (talk) 18:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
- The Ukraine (formerly also Little Russia or Malo-Russia) implies that it is a geographic region, often considered to be a constituent part of the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union. It may also be perceived as belittling the status of Ukrainians as a people. Ukraine is the name of a nation and sovereign country. The former was quite common in English, but not universal, before Ukrainian independence in 1991. —Michael Z. 2008-12-21 20:54 z
WOW! The country exists already for almost 20 years and people still are asking the same question regarding its name. No one says the Belarus or the Russia, although, technically that would be the right name in proper English. The Kyivan Rus was called that way not accidently. It encompassed various other Rus-lands: Chervonarus, Belarus, Chornarus etc. Yet today calling Russia as the Russia sounds kind of akward. I do not see why it is so difficult to say Ukraine instead of the Ukraine. There is nothing wrong with that. Some people argue something about geography or whatever. But there is nothing to argue - it is what it is. Ukraine is Ukraine. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 05:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
It's got nothing to do with whether or not it's an independent country. Some Ukrainians seem to perceive that a slight is intended by the use of 'the'. Such perceptions seem quite odd to native English speakers. Many countries have names in English which end in '-nia' (Albania, Estonia, Macedonia, etc), and somehow the 'ain' ending sounds as if something is missing. Lebanon and Sudan are other countries which, at times, have been preceded by 'the' in English. It would sound more natural in English if 'Ukraine' was called 'Ukrainia' - which would be closer to its actual name in Ukrainian anyway.210.10.106.195 (talk) 01:53, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
- This is purely a linguistic phenomenon, one of actual practice. There is no value judgement involved, no technical distinction being made, and therefore there is no PC issue one way or the other. There is also no officially correct answer: the constitutions of countries give them an official name form in their official language, but there is no officially correct translation into other languages. Like anything else in language, country names just are. Some country names have definite articles for no particular reason. In English we also have "The USA", "The UK", and (often) "The Gambia", as well as the examples already mentioned. In German, the Ukraine, Switzerland and Turkey have definite articles, and traditionally so does the Tirol, though that is gradually disappearing. It is just a question of linguistic variation, and certainly has nothing to do with politics, national status, or any other concrete factor. It can be influenced by purely linguistic factors (English is more likely to do it when the country name involves an adjective-noun combination, German tendentially when it is grammatically feminine) so the last contributor's hypothesis about the -aine ending being a factor is possible, though the US state of Maine doesn't have an article, nor does Spain. Anyway the point is, we should test and see what actual current usage in English is, and follow that. And I THINK that what I ususally hear on the BBC and CNN is still "the Ukraine". --Doric Loon (talk) 10:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
- Incidentally, I just checked some of the other language Wikis and see that Misplaced Pages gives the Ukraine an article in French, German, Italian and Gaelic, but not in Spanish or Dutch. Clearly not something to get worked up about. --Doric Loon (talk) 10:17, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, it can be a linguistic phenomenon sometimes where English users like using the definite article, but the whole "the Ukraine" issue can be taken from a political standpoint (c.f. Name of Ukraine). I watch and read the BBC and never hear them using "the Ukraine." That usage is anachronistic (and sometimes offensive) and not used by many mainstream English sources. ddima.talk 01:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
- It is "Ukraine" not "the Ukraine"... I find it offensive and so does most of my family in L'viv. UkrNole 485 (talk) 23:15, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
It is sometimes called "The Ukraine" because "Ukraine" comes from the Slavic word for "edge" (see wiktionary). The first people to translate the word into English translated it as "The Ukraine" rather than just "Ukraine", because it makes grammatical sense in English ("the Edge" rather than just "Edge"). But being a proper noun, it shouldn't actually be preceded by an article. Hypershock (talk) 12:11, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
It's 'The Ukraine'. Simple as! It's not offensive it's just the way it is. Who the hell says "I just got back from Ukraine"?! If somebody said that to me I'd think they don't speak English properly! (86.1.97.190 (talk) 09:03, 9 November 2009 (UTC))
- I can only conclude from that: You think at the BBC the don't speak proper English... Interesting, but not relevant. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 15:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I think people are being hypersensitive. It's not an insult whatsoever. I don't even understand why you think it is an insult. It naturally comes to mind for native English speakers. In fact, 'the' Ukraine sounds good. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.220.148.111 (talk) 19:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
My belief is it's a linguistic curriosity, resulting from the use of "The UK." We say: "I'm travelling to the UK," so we naturally want to say "I'm travelling to the Ukraine." "I'm travelling to Ukraine," sounds a little odd because our more common experience is with "the UK." Despite this, I think Ukraine on its own is the correct form. --212.192.251.38 (talk) 15:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Language
Main articles: Ukrainian language and Languages of Ukraine
Percentage of native Ukrainian speakers by subdivision. Percentage of native Ukrainian speakers by subdivision.
Percentage of native Russian speakers by subdivision. Percentage of native Russian speakers by subdivision.
According to the Constitution, the state language of Ukraine is Rusian.
--> According to the Constitution of Ukraine the official language is Ukrainian. Please, see the Article #10 of the Chapter I ()
Russian, which was the de facto official language of the Soviet Union, is widely spoken, especially in eastern and southern Ukraine. According to the 2001 census, 67.5 percent of the population declared Russian as their native language and 29.6 percent declared Ukranian. Most native Russian speakers know Ukranian as a second language.
These details result in a significant difference across different survey results, as even a small restating of a question switches responses of a significant group of people. Ukrainian is mainly spoken in western and central Ukraine. In western Ukraine, Russian is also the dominant language in cities (such as Lviv). In central Ukraine, Ukrainian and Russian are both equally used in cities, with Russian being more common in Kiev, while Russian is the dominant language in rural communities. In eastern and southern Ukraine, Russian is primarily used in cities, and Surzhyk is used in rural areas.
--> Ukrainian is more widely spoken in rural settlements both on left and right banks of the Dnipro. The western part of Ukraine is commonly used Ukrainian, whilst Zakarpattia and Chernivtsi have their own specialities - large hungarian and romanian speaking communities. I am not convinced that Lviv is more Russian than Ukrainian. Currently it is more Ukrainian. Kyis is bilingual city, where the native elders use Russian, whilst the youngsters use both Ukrainian and Russian.
For a large part of the Soviet era, the number of Ukrainian speakers was declining from generation to generation, and by the mid-1980s, the usage of the Ukrainian language in public life had decreased significantly. Following independence, the government of Ukraine began following a policy of Ukrainisation, to increase the use of Ukrainian, while discouraging Russian, which has been banned or restricted in the media and films. This means that Russian-language programmes need a Ukrainian translation or subtitles, but this excludes Russian language media made during the Soviet era.
--> I am not agree about the discouraging of Russian, it is widely used in all media, especially dominating in printed ones. During the Soviet time the Soviet government proclaimed the equality of languages on paper, however in real life the Russian is dominating.
According to the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Ukrainian is the only state language of the republic. However, the republic's constitution specifically recognises Russian as the language of the majority of its population and guarantees its usage 'in all spheres of public life'. Similarly, the Crimean Tatar language (the language of 12 percent of population of Crimea) is guaranteed a special state protection as well as the 'languages of other ethnicities'. Russian speakers constitute an overwhelming majority of the Crimean population (77 percent), with Ukrainian speakers comprising just 10.1 percent, and Crimean Tatar speakers 11.4 percent. But in everyday life the majority of Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians in Crimea use Russian.
Kyiv vs. Kiev
Since the actual Kyiv page has no way to from consensus on the proper naming for our capital, I as to change the article the reflect the correct name for Ukraine's capital. Shortly after independence 18 years ago the Rada gave specific guidelines on translating Ukrainian cities and phrases. The argument on the Kyiv talk page is that "Kiev" is much more widely used, while that used to be true more outlets are finally using the correct Ukrainian spelling rather than the Russian spelling. I would like the[REDACTED] article to be CORRECT UkrNole 485 (talk) 23:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
furthermore the US State Department uses the correct spelling of Kyiv UkrNole 485 (talk) 23:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Kiev is the standard English language spelling of Kiev. See: Talk:Kiev/naming--Toddy1 (talk) 04:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Language section needs update?
The Language subsection (subsection of section "Culture") now reads:
- This would, in principle, mean that Russian-language programmes need a Ukrainian translation or subtitles, although excluding Russian language media made during the Soviet era. In practice, however, there is only one channel in Ukraine which broadcasts everything in Ukrainian. Tha majority of other channels are either in Russian, or broadcast varying amounts of Russian programs. In fact, the majority of films available on television are originally in Russian, subtitled in Russian or dubbed in Russian. This is why a language protection policy makes sense in the case of Ukrainian.
With all Russian films being subtitled in Ukrainian these days I am quite sure there is no subtitling in Russian any more. I also doubt that there are any films dubbed in Russian left. Can anybody living in Ukraine confirm that (I do not) please? Is it not also so that most TV-presenters speak Ukrainian but that some guests in there show speak Russian? All in all the section now makes it look like there are is almost no Ukrainian to be heard on Ukrainian TV while I got the idea Ukrainian is getting more and more dominant (or at least gaining ground) on Ukrainian TV. Sentences like: "This is why a language protection policy makes sense in the case of Ukrainian" don't belong in an encyclopaedia by the way. Misplaced Pages is not the place to justify politics. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 16:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
- Indeed, there is no subtitling and dubbing of films in Russian on Ukrainian TV channels anymore. Films originally made in Russian are subtitled in Ukrainian. So this sentence is just wrong: "In fact, the majority of films available on television are originally in Russian, subtitled in Russian or dubbed in Russian". It should read: "In fact, the majority of films available on television are originally in Russian, BUT subtitled in UKRAINIAN or dubbed in UKRAINIAN. " Garik 11 (talk) 17:12, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Aren't the majority of films/tv-series on Ukrainian TV not made in Hollywood (as in Western-Europe) these day's? I also think that the fact that they used to be subtitled in Russian or dubbed in Russian is worth mentioning. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 17:43, 28 October 2009
- No, the majority of films, especially TV series on major Ukrainian TV channels such as Inter, 1 plus 1, STB are from Russia. Western films were never subtitled in Russian, only dubbed in Russian (That old-school dubbing was often work of art, by the way. Now it's like amateur actors dubbing of unprofessional Ukrainian translations). Garik 11 (talk) 17:52, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks for that info! — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 22:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Legatum Prosperity Index 2009
Ukraine 61st world’s most prospering nation according to the 2009 Legatum Prosperity Index produced by experts from Britain’s Legatum Center and published on October 27, 2009. A total of 104 countries were ranked by 79 factors, particularly material wealth, quality of life, personal freedom, safety and security, etc. Is this interesting enough to put in the article, and if so where? The lead or the "Demographics" section? — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 22:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Russai also took over and ruled Ukraine in the olden days.Russai were mean to people in Ukraine and also started commanding people from Ukraine to do stuff for the Russai people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.105.177 (talk) 23:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Simple grammar and structural corrections
The paragraph titled "The 19th Century" now reads:
"In the 19th century the Ukrainian was a rural area largely ignored by Russia and Austria."
Should be:
"In the 19th century Ukraine was a rural area largely ignored by Russia and Austria."
Etosamoe (talk) 20:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Third paragraph under "Independence:"
"Kuchma was, however, criticized by opponents for concentrating too much of power in his office, corruption, transferring public property into hands of loyal oligarchs, discouraging free speech, and electoral fraud"
Kuchma is not mentioned previously. it is not clear who he is. He succeeded Kravchuk as President. He should be linked to his article too.
Etosamoe (talk) 20:40, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
The "Regionalism" paragraph is out of place under the "Geography" heading.
Etosamoe (talk) 20:44, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
See also
I am trying to add a section called See also, and to include a link to 'Category:Ukraine-related_lists'. But am having great difficulty!(Reason: inexperience!) Can anyone help, or do it for me, if it is possible. Thanks. --Lepton6 (talk) 16:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Done. I assume you were previewing your edit but could not get it to work right, so you hit "Cancel". In case you find this interesting, I am sharing the magic trick that makes it work: one must put a colon before "Category" in the link syntax, like so: ]. That's what allows it to be a link to the category rather than putting the page in the category. — ¾-10 23:59, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
An-225
It was build in the SOVIET UNION which official follower is Russia. So it is not a Ukraine.
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