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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Srnec (talk | contribs) at 05:30, 27 February 2006 (→Mutual recognition). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Yes. Be bold. —No-One Jones  06:27, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One holy cathloic...

The Phrase "one holy catholic and apostolic church" has been used by scads of Christians, not as a statement of allegiance to a particular church organization, but to the church community (the entire Christian church started by the apostles) so the last line needs to be rephrased but I’m not sure how best to do that. Ideas?

Insertion of filioque

The word "non-canonical" before the insertion of the clause seems to be advocating the Eastern side of the schism. I mean, obviously the Catholics do not think that it is non-canonical, right? I might be wrong... Bratsche 20:42, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)

the Pope claimed he held authority over the four Eastern patriarchs, while the Patriarch of Constantinople claimed since he was the spiritual leader of "new-Rome" that he was the head of the Christian Church

Is the above right? I thought the claim of the four Eastern patriarchs was that none of the five patriarchs could claim authority over the whole Christian church. Today, the various Eastern Orthodox hierarchies recognize the primacy of the Patriarch of Constantinople as only honorary; he has authority over only one of those hierarchical churches. My understanding has been that that has been the position of the Eastern Orthodox Church ever since the schism of 1054. Michael Hardy 22:48, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I always thought that the Patriarch of Constantinople was not called "ecumenical" until after the Schism. Am I wrong? 66.213.21.15 28 June 2005 19:42 (UTC)

Actually, the Patriarch of Constatinople at the time of the split did indeed make primatial claims, much as the modern Orthodox hate to admit it. He was an aberration, unfortunately it was at the wrong time for it to happen.

The above would seem to contradict the current article which says: "All five Patriarchs of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church agreed that the Patriarch of Rome should receive higher honors than the other four" So which is it? At that time, did the Patriarch of Constantinople accord some degree of primacy to the Roman Patriarch/Pope or did he assert his own primacy (or neither)? Crust 21:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The Patriarch of Constantinople never tried to claim any sort of primacy over the Pope. --Midnite Critic 15:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The Origins' Content

Paragraph two is concluded with the line 'thus the Empire was the first to fall' or something similar; which empire? Byzantine or the Western? Both are mentioned in the preceding sentence. Celtmist 5-11-05

I have replaced the word decimated by destroyed, since to decimate means to destroy 10% of something.Mystery Man 14:29, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Should this article be merged with this one?

I have found this article, and Western Schism, about the same topic. Are there enough differences between the two, or should they be merged? DrJones 12:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

They are not at all about the same topic and should not be merged. —Charles P. (Mirv) 20:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, no. They're about two entirely different topics. User:ASDamick/sig 12:40, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Mutual recognition

Should there not be something about the Roman and the Eastern Churches recognising the legitimacy of each other's priesthood and sacraments? That is, a Catholic could receive the Eucharist from a Greek Orthodox priest and would regard himself as having received "proper" communion. He would not so regard communion taken from an Anglican. Avalon 11:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

The recognition generally only goes in one direction. That is, while an RC might consider it okay to receive at an Orthodox church, no Orthodox priest would be allowed to commune him. And while an RC parish might receive an Orthodox Christian to communion, the act of doing so would automatically excommunicate that person from the Orthodox Church.

The Orthodox Church has not made an official statement regarding the "validity" of RC sacraments, but they are certainly not treated in practice as "proper" to the life of an Orthodox Christian. —A.S. Damick 12:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm glad I asked the question because I'm happy to learn the true situation. One lives and learns! Avalon 14:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Details

This article contains no details about the actual excommunications and the immediate events surrounding them which occurred in 1054. It's a serious lacking and should be corrected. What about Bishop Leo of Ochrid's letter or Emperor Constantine IX's attitude? There is no mention here or at Leo IX's articel or Cerularius' about the prime human catalyst for the actual excommunications, Humbert of Mourmoutiers. I can add it if necessary, but I would prefer someone more familiar with the topic do it. Srnec 05:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)