This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Sodabottle (talk | contribs) at 09:47, 30 March 2011 (Undid revision 421457530 by 59.97.177.48 ([[User talk:59.97.177.48|tal not a forum). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 09:47, 30 March 2011 by Sodabottle (talk | contribs) (Undid revision 421457530 by 59.97.177.48 ([[User talk:59.97.177.48|tal not a forum)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)Do you need the Indic name(s) of something or somebody? Post a request for it.
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Please Peer Review Institute of Chartered Accountants of India
I have recently nominated Institute of Chartered Accountants of India for peer review. I humbly request that someone peer reviews the article.
Proposed rename of article entitled "Nirmala Srivastava" to "Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi"
Hi all, do you think that the above should be done? I know there is a policy of not using honorifics on Misplaced Pages but I think this person should come as an exception since she is more widely known by the honorific title. For example I have compiled this list of academic sources which are used in the article:
Judith Coney, Sahaja Yoga: Socializing Processes in a South Asian New Religious Movement (1999) – Sri Mataji Nirmala Devi, shortened to Sri Mataji (used most often). Only one reference to Nirmala Srivastava.
Hinduism Today - Mataji Nirmala Devi
Kakar, Sudhir (1984) Shamans, Mystics and Doctors: A Psychological Inquiry into India and Its Healing Traditions - Mata Nirmala Devi
Holiest Wars: Islamic Mahdis, Their Jihads, and Osama Bin Laden 2005 by Timothy R. Furnish & Michael Rubin - Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi
Inform brochure - Her Holiness Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Srivastava
http://www.irelandyoga.org - Shri Mataji
Thorax International Journal of Respiratory Medicine - HH Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi
Barrett, David V. The New Believers - Shri Mataji
I'm sure as time goes on she will be even less known by the name she was born with and more widely known by her spiritual name considering the worldwide following she has. Freelion (talk) 02:33, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
- Please refer to the article's talk page for further discussion. Freelion (talk) 00:09, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Edit-warring at Ram Rahim Singh
I'm not an expert on the subject, but there has been a lot of reverting going on at this article for the last few weeks. If anyone with knowledge of the topic would care to look over the article and comment on the talk page, I would appreciate it. —Torchiest edits 20:17, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
- Coming in to reinforce you; thanks for taking the lead on this. Ran citation tool to clean up the refs (and better expose the non-RS ones), took some junk out of the lede, removed the "Mr." throughout. The main issue I see at this point is figuring out how much of the charity work is better-covered in the article about his organistion, vice his personal article, and then sorting out the coverage of accusations against him. The current article has a goofy slant of "here are terrible and unjust defamatory accusations against him by shadowy accusations", so just need to scope the refs and change that to "He was accused of XYZ in July 2008, but a magistrate in Haryana dismissed the case for lack of evidence.-footnote-". Lots of POV pushers there, so watching for my good edits to be challenged. MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:35, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for that. I also ran the citation tool about a week ago, but my edits got reverted and lost in the shuffle. Luckily, some of the truly awful cites, like direct links to images, seem to be permanently out of the article, so some progress has been made. —Torchiest edits 20:57, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Proposal to delete portal - Portal India/Quiz
Portal:India/Quiz has degenerated into a quiz which has nothing whatsoever to do with editting Misplaced Pages. As such, since Misplaced Pages is not a blog, webspace provider, social network, or memorial site, it is prosed to delete this page. The afficionados of the Quiz are free to move it offline to Wikia or elsewhere.
The issue was brought to notice on the talk page by me (Diff) and during a quiz (Diff) but no interest is shown by anyone into making it relevant to Misplaced Pages.
This post is for informing all and for discussion before I post it at WP:MFD.
AshLin (talk) 09:53, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- Nowhere has it been said that this quiz either intends to improve Misplaced Pages or that it's got anything to do with editing India-related articles. I think it's good that editors are given a chance to socialise. The quiz introduction clearly says, " is run as a friendly competition to test and improve your knowledge of India. Most importantly, it's supposed to be fun."
- Having said that, it is a very essential page and many of the mentioned topics in it have most under-developed articles and very often, don't have articles. This is used to motivate editors, but it's not this quiz's goal.
- I quite frankly can't see why this harmless quiz which has been there for years now would disturb anyone. Shahid • 14:58, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- Well, of course, this is not a place for socialising. But I am in favour of retaining it. It was proposed here that each question be prepared around a redlink. Also, I don't think many DYKs are coming out of this. I am aware that this has not been happening much of late, but this is a great opportunity for editors to find out things that need to be edited, or created, or improved. Yes Michael? • 15:33, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- No one says that editors shouldn't socialise! There is #irc chat, the wikimedia sendmail lists, personal email, Twitter, Facebook etc. This is Misplaced Pages and as per policy NOT a place for socialising. So all I'm saying is if its not helping Misplaced Pages, move it somewhere else.
- From what is apparent, there is no attempt for the last few quizzes to improve Misplaced Pages. As per the stated aims, they are supposed to update the DYKs on Portal India but please check the history of the quiz page and editors contributions for yourselves.
- Shahid, if there is no quiz, there is zero difference to Misplaced Pages. On what grounds do you say that it is essential? Mike, if it has to be retained, it has to visibly contribute to Misplaced Pages through every question! As of now, its just adding feel good factor. Let's face it - these quiz editors are spending more time on these then on edits and no contribution is coming out of that time. I can't stop them from using their time as they like. However, this travesty in the name of improving articles can certainly be got rid off. AshLin (talk) 15:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- I think we should let Ashlin win the current round.. :p -- Longhairandabeard (talk) 19:26, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, that would be nice but better still would be someone proposing to fundamentally change the nature of the quiz so that it serves both the purpose of fun and contributing to Misplaced Pages. I have been waiting for someone to suggest this but it does not seem to have to struck anyone's mind as the ideal way to resolve this issue. AshLin (talk) 04:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Test case
User:Vishwaprabha started the first question of the current quiz with :
UP has 4 of them. Next come Kerala, Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu with 3 each and Andrapradesh, Bihar and Karnataka with 2 each. 5 more states and 3 union territories (including Delhi) have just one each.
What are they?
The discussion ran from 4th to 9th March. When specifically queried by me as to what use this was to Misplaced Pages,
And how is all this helping develop India articles?
User:Vishwaprabha has this to say:
That very page List_of_international_airports_in_India is currently an orphan. I think it can be linked quite well with other related articles.
Please check history of List_of_international_airports_in_India (Diff). There is no effort from User:Vishwaprabha to de-orphan the article. No other improvement to this article took place during that time from Users Vishwaprabha, Prasad, Shahid or reuben_lys. In fact, except for User:Shahid (Shshsh), Users Vishwaprabha, Prasad, or reuben_lys did no edits other than the Quiz during that time.
As far as the Portal is concerned, there is not a single edit of the main Portal page between 19 January and 14 March 2011. As far as Portal:India/DYK is concerned, the last DYK was added on 16 Feb 2010. No prizes for guessing how many rounds of quiz took place since then. AshLin (talk) 16:17, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
I rest my case. AshLin (talk) 16:09, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with AshLin that there hasn't been anything going on there which could be seen as constructive to Misplaced Pages. However, I still think it should be retained. I do not know if we can actually formulate rules which say that every question must be formed around a redlink, but if such a rule can be made, then it should be. Yes Michael? • 03:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Good idea, MikeLynch. A set of guidelines for a question could be laid down, such as:
- The question asked must be based on a proposed DYK or fact (with reference), red link to be created, expansion of stub, etc to be included in WP.
- After the question/answer banter, we could specify that two requirements be met before the next question is asked :
- The follow-up edits which contribute to article mainspace around that question should be shown with a diff by the guy who had asked the question/answered it correctly.
- The DYK for India:Portal must be added by the guy who had asked the question/answered it correctly.
- Rest unchanged.
It is not the existance of the quiz that bothers me but the contrast between the great interest shown by participants of the quiz on one hand and the complete apathy to improve WP & Portal:India on the other. My aim was not to be a spoilsport by deleting the quiz, though I have no doubt I may be seen in that light but to get people around to change their approach. It is sad that the only meaningful little discussion on this is between you and me - both non-particpants of the quiz. AshLin (talk) 04:29, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
- I dont see why the quiz needs to be deleted. It in fact serves a very important function of bringing India related topics to attention. Wether or not they are red links does not really matter, because there's only so many red links you're going to have (especially given the vast number of Indian wikipedians) before you start accepting or actively seeking or promoting unencyclopaedic entries. What matters is that under developed articles can also recieve attention. I can specifically point to the article on Virendranath Chattopadhyaya which came up in the quiz as an already developed article but brought to my attention the topic of the Indian freedom movement abroad especially during World War I, from which I developed a large number of articles in the Category:India House, Category:Hindu-German Conspiracy, Category:Anushilan Samiti. Perhaps, what you are looking for are guidelines which refine the questions from pedantic trivialism, but I feel that effort should be aimed more at the users who pose such questions rather than a frustrated attempt at deleting the page altogether.] (talk · contribs) 13:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
- PS: In addition, the very DYK that has been pointed out above, with the image of Pandurang Sadashiv Khankhoje exemplifies my case. I created that article at the fag end of an inspirational spur on the topics identified as lacking from the very portal quiz that is being proposed to be deleted.] (talk · contribs) 17:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Need for change
Firstly, my apologies for my very nasty and aggressive manner of speech on this issue. There is no excuse for not being civil.
Secondly, I was not really interested in deleting the quiz but in getting people to change their ways but obviously it was quite the wrong way to go about it.
Thirdly, I still feel that our current model encourages one-upmanship and competition and doesn't help the purpose of the quiz. We need to change the model so that people still enjoy participating and Misplaced Pages also benefits.
Perhaps we could have some experienced quizzer volunteer to coordinate each quiz in turn, where all the editors on India topics can submit questions and answers, DYK style. Whosever question gets asked gets a point and and whoever answers it gets a point too. After getting say, ã hundred points or so, a person can win an India Quiz barnstar. If they get maximum points in a quiz, they can put up a user infobox as is already being done.
Anyway, this is my last post on the issue. The community needs to change the way the Quiz is structured not because someone threatens to delete the page but because it is the right thing to do. AshLin (talk) 03:26, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Do India and Srilanka share a Land Border
There seem to be referances on[REDACTED] about a small atoll on Adams Bridge that forms one of the smallest land Borders (between India with Srilanka). This is ofcourse refuted by many other pages. How can this issue be addressed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.50.14.235 (talk) 09:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Recent changes made in the titles of a number of Indian State Legislature articles
The titles of a number of Indian state legislature articles, namely Uttar Pradesh Vidhan Sabha, Uttar Pradesh Vidhan Parishad, Maharashtra Vidhan Sabha, Maharashtra Vidhan Parishad and Bihar Vidhan Parishad were changed by the User:Good Olfactory without any prior discussion. It is well known that the state legislations of a number of Indian states are more widely known as the Vidhan Sabha and the Vidhan Parishad and the Indian Legislative Bodies website has mentioned them in the same way.. Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assemebly website (http://uplegisassembly.gov.in/) and Bihar Legislative Council website (http://www.biharvidhanparishad.gov.in/) have also mentioned similarly. I want to draw the attention of the WikiProject India members on these changes and request them to kindly share their opinions. I feel the titles of these articles should be reverted back till the consensus is formed. Thanks.
References
Joy1963 04:08, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
- hmm i am in two minds about this. Many en wiki policy pages about naming explicitly state the preference is for the english name, if there is one. But on the other hand, the hindi names are used as primary names in these cases. Joy, can you initiate a move proposal in one of the talk pages (for all the moves together) and post a link here. --Sodabottle (talk) 16:20, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- I have already placed a move request in the Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly page and here is its link: Talk:Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly#Requested move. Is it sufficient?Joy1963 17:10, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
India v. South Asia
Fowler&fowler (talk · contribs) has proposed to get rid of 'India' and replace it with 'South Asia' from the article List of Indian inventions and discoveries. Please participate in the discussion at the move request section. Zuggernaut (talk) 02:23, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
- Best not to forum shop, Zuggernaut, in the hopes that editors who read this notice board, who you have somehow divined to be "Indian," will naturally vote for "India" on a page move they hitherto knew nothing about and a page they have made no contribution to. I think you've been upbraided before for canvassing. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:30, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
- ANI or WP:DRR is the right place for this if you think so. Might I add that your assumption that people who are active here will vote "for India" is a failure of AGF which has become a pattern with you. Zuggernaut (talk) 04:37, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
- Not my assumption, my dear, but rather your hope. Please read my sentence carefully. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:16, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
- ANI or WP:DRR is the right place for this if you think so. Might I add that your assumption that people who are active here will vote "for India" is a failure of AGF which has become a pattern with you. Zuggernaut (talk) 04:37, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Some problems with articles on Indian train services
Hi all,
I've found some possible problems with a large number of articles on train services in India. Some could be fixable but many are so short on notability/sources that deletion may be the best option. There's a a thread over at WikiProject Trains' talkpage; suggestions from the WikiProject India community would be very welcome. bobrayner (talk) 11:34, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Pics/cites for Raasta roko/Rail roko (protest technique)
Ran across the term Raasta roko, and there's an okay stub giving the basics. Unreferenced though, and this is also a case where a photo would make a great visual impact. Anyone have or no where to find CC photos of such protests? MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:25, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Do we need a page for Ek Noor Khalsa Fauj?
I ran across mention of this Indian militant group online, but we have (as best as I can tell) no article. Do we need an article for them, and/or a redirect to an existing article? MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:29, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
POV edits on Mughal Empire and South Asia History Template
Is there some admin around for South Asia related topics? (I know that RegentsPark is away and both Abecedare and Ragib are on longish wikibreaks.) I don't know if Spaceman is an admin, but if there is someone around could they examine the edits being made by a user, HotWinters (talk · contribs), that, at least to me, seem anti-Muslim. For example, he has changed the lead of the Mughal Empire page from stating that it was an empire in South Asia, to one of being a Central Asian empire based in Uzbekistan that ruled the Indian subcontinent. (The subtle anti-Muslim message being that the Mughals were foreigners and hence occupiers). He has pasted a large chunk of text from the Babur page to the Mughal Empire page (presumably to give his edits a sheen of respectability, since the pasted edits are sourced). This diff will give you an idea. He has tampered with a long-standing template Template:History of South Asia, where he has changed "Muslim Period" (which label is used by Britannica, as well as history texts), to Early Modern (1100 to 1800), even though the Early Modern Period refers to the period 1500 to 1800, all because he doesn't like "Muslim" in there. I suspect he might be a returning POV warrior. The pattern of edits seem vaguely familiar to stuff I've seen before. Unfortunately, I don't have time. Could some admin please look at his edits. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- Please sort it out with the editor per WP:BRD, assume good faith and don't jump to conclusions about the editor being a "returning POV warrior". If the person is in violation of a policy and shows no signs of improving after being made aware of the violation, report him to ANI. Zuggernaut (talk) 15:52, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- Like I said, I don't have the time. That is why I'm requesting some admin to look into HotWinters (talk · contribs)'s edits. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:00, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The Fowler&fowler (talk · contribs) is paranoid about the my edits due to his apparent "Pro Muslim" POV i guess. My edits on Mughal Empire page are completely sourced. I have elaborated the "early history" section as per the given data, the section was badly under written. The user deleted all my edits only to push his POV. The way he has deleted the Central Asian part of the Mughal Empire clearly reflects his geographical and nationalist POV. He is reading too much into my edits like his example that I am implying that "Mughals were foreigners and hence occupiers", I have just wrote sourced facts which can be corrected(if required). This casts a shadow over his intent of editing. The Template section was improved by me in accordance with the set standards of period classification like "Middle Kingdoms" and "Early Modern" Kingdoms. ThanksHotWinters (talk) 16:01, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- I've been around long enough on Misplaced Pages to smell out anti-Muslim or anti-Pakistan when it comes my way. Here are some examples from HotWinters:
- On the page Nargis Fakhri, he changes "half-Czech half-Pakistani with: a) first edit and second edit. — Fowler&fowler , — (continues after insertion below.)
- How is that an ANTI MUSLIM pov? Did I delete her being a muslim or being a Pakitsani? HotWinters (talk) 17:17, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- On the Ghaggar-Hakra river page, (which has been a stable page name for many years and referred to several times in the Indus Valley Civilization page, he (a) first moved the page to "Ghaggar River and then removed "Pakistan" from the lead sentence. — Fowler&fowler , — (continues after insertion below.)
- How is this even related to islam? HotWinters (talk) 17:12, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- On the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) page, he removed statements critical of the VHP that were sourced to Hindustan Times and Frontline without any explanation. — Fowler&fowler , — (continues after insertion below.)
- Plz go through the discusion on Talk page. HotWinters (talk) 17:15, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- Well, what should one make of them? His history is full of such edits on South Asia related pages. Am I really paranoid? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:51, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
- I've been around long enough on Misplaced Pages to smell out anti-Muslim or anti-Pakistan when it comes my way. Here are some examples from HotWinters:
- Yes you are being Paranoid...cite me one Anti-Muslim edit(suggestive), you have pro muslim and I may say anti India pov written all over your edits. You are paranoid and being an Islamophile which is apparent from all ur recent edits and discussions. HotWinters (talk) 17:10, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Need merge of Ahirs and Aheer?
Ran across Ahirs, which is a right mess. Also noted Aheer, which seems to be about the same people. Between the two articles and their various spellings, they appear to get some 6,000 hits a month, which is not insubstantial. Anyone have any objections to merging these two pages? Any objections to such a merge? Anyone interested in that task? MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:10, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Problem with regions of Kochi?
Hi. I'm looking for competent help. I don't have the slightest expertise on Kochi or on administrative subdivision systems in India but I recently came across Category:Regions of Kochi and it doesn't feel right. Kochi is a city so its subdivisions should be neighbourhoods or something of the sort. And there are in fact categories Category:Neighbourhoods of Kochi and Category:Suburbs of Kochi city. Now the thing that really confused me at first is that articles such as Kadavanthra use the term "region of Kochi". However, this is a recent change by Austria156 (talk · contribs) who created the regions category and similarly tweaked other articles so that they fit in the cat. To my untrained eye, this looks like nonsense that should be reverted but like I said, I lack even the slightest bit of expertise so help would be appreciated. Pichpich (talk) 22:58, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Pichpich. Your concern might be true. Having two different categories for the same thing. But when I created the Category:Regions of Kochi, there was specific reason why I did so. Category:Neighbourhoods of Kochi contains place names which are not really part of Kochi, and Category:Suburbs of Kochi city contains places which are part of downtown Kochi. The problem here is that editors from Kerala mistake 'neighbourhood' for something outside but on the periphery (a notion followed from a neighbouring house, among non-native speakers of English) of the city rather than within the city. Also the word 'suburb' is not really followed by many editor who are non-native speakers of English. So I wanted to avoid the ambiguity. It was in good faith. But if other editors feel that the categories should be merged or that one of them be deleted, then let us go ahead. I would like to see opinions from more editors, and particularly those from Kochi. Anyway, thanks Pichpich for your help. A third-person perspective always help in situations like this. Thanks. Austria156 (talk) 23:14, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
- My concern is that "region" usually has a specific administrative meaning so the category's title is misleading (and so are the edits that qualify this or that neighbourhood as a region. From what I understand of your comment, the problem should be solved by improving the consistency of inclusion criteria in the neighbourhoods and suburbs categories and not by creating a third category. Pichpich (talk) 05:40, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Varad bardoli
New stub - should it be Varad Bardoli or Varad, Bardoli (or something else?), or is it OK as it stands? Please move if necessary and update the dab page I've just created at Varad while stub-sorting it. Thank you. PamD (talk) 16:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
proposal to merge Tata Airlines with Air India
I have proposed Tata Airlines be merged with Air India. Reasons listed on Talk:Air India, where I have started a discussion on the same. Around The Globe 08:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
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