Misplaced Pages

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• WP:AN
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Use the closure requests noticeboard to ask an uninvolved editor to assess, summarize, and formally close a Misplaced Pages discussion. Do so when consensus appears unclear, it is a contentious issue, or where there are wiki-wide implications (e.g. any change to our policies or guidelines).

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There is no fixed length for a formal request for comment (RfC). Typically 7 days is a minimum, and after 30 days the discussion is ripe for closure. The best way to tell is when there is little or no activity in the discussion, or further activity is unlikely to change its result.

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Include a link to the discussion itself and the {{Initiated}} template at the beginning of the request. A helper script can make listing easier. Move discussions go in the 'other types' section.

Any uninvolved editor may close most discussions, so long as they are prepared to discuss and justify their closing rationale.

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Non-admins can close most discussions. Admins may not overturn your non-admin closures just because you are not an admin, and this is not normally in itself a problem at reviews. Still, there are caveats. You may not close discussions as an unregistered user, or where implementing the closure would need tools or edit permissions you do not have access to. Articles for deletion and move discussion processes have more rules for non-admins to follow.

If you want to formally challenge and appeal the closure, do not start the discussion here. Instead follow advice at WP:CLOSECHALLENGE.

Other areas tracking old discussions

• Misplaced Pages:Requested moves#Elapsed listings
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Administrative discussions

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive367#Close challenge for Talk:1948 Arab–Israeli War#RFC for Jewish exodus

(Initiated 39 days ago on 13 December 2024) challenge of close at AN was archived nableezy - 05:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Place new administrative discussions above this line using a level 3 heading

Requests for comment

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/In the news criteria amendments

(Initiated 106 days ago on 7 October 2024) Tough one, died down, will expire tomorrow. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 459#RFC_Jerusalem_Post

(Initiated 85 days ago on 28 October 2024) Participation/discussion has mostly stopped & is unlikely to pick back up again. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

 Note: This is a contentious topic and subject to general sanctions. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed.  22:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

would like to see what close is. seems like it was option 1 in general, possibly 1/2 for IP area. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 05:38, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Genocide#RfC: History section, adding native American and Australian genocides as examples

(Initiated 76 days ago on 6 November 2024) RfC expired on 6 December 2024 . No new comments in over a week. Bogazicili (talk) 15:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Australia#RFC: Should the article state that Indigenous Australians were victims of genocide?

(Initiated 75 days ago on 8 November 2024), RFC expired weeks ago. GoodDay (talk) 21:33, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Catholic Church#RfC: Establishing an independent Catholicism article

(Initiated 26 days ago on 26 December 2024) Requesting closure from uninvolved impartial third party to close a discussion that has not seen a novel argument for a bit. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:21, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Place new discussions concerning RfCs above this line using a level 3 heading

Deletion discussions

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 18#Category:Belarusian saints

(Initiated 33 days ago on 20 December 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:10, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 6#Category:Misplaced Pages oversighters

(Initiated 32 days ago on 20 December 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:38, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 6#Redundant WPANIMATION categories

(Initiated 15 days ago on 6 January 2025) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:35, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 13#Redundant WP:COMICS categories

(Initiated 9 days ago on 13 January 2025) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 08:14, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

 Closed by editor Timrollpickering. P.I. Ellsworth , ed.  14:01, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 9#Category:Molossia Wikipedians

(Initiated 13 days ago on 9 January 2025) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 22:47, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 10#WP:DISNEY categories

(Initiated 12 days ago on 10 January 2025) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 22:47, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Place new discussions concerning XfDs above this line using a level 3 heading

Other types of closing requests

Talk:Free and open-source software#Proposed merge of Open-source software and Free software into Free and open-source software

(Initiated 249 days ago on 17 May 2024) Would an uninvolved experienced editor please assess the consensus at Talk:Free and open-source software § Proposed merge of Open-source software and Free software into Free and open-source software? Thank you. — Newslinger talk 01:53, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Arab migrations to the Levant#Merger Proposal

(Initiated 119 days ago on 25 September 2024) Open for a while, requesting uninvolved closure. Andre🚐 22:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Winter fuel payment abolition backlash#Merge proposal

(Initiated 85 days ago on 29 October 2024) There are voices on both sides (ie it is not uncontroversial) so a non-involved editor is needed to evaluate consensus and close this. Thanks. PamD 09:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:You Like It Darker#Proposed merge of Finn (short story) into You Like It Darker

(Initiated 25 days ago on 27 December 2024) Proposed merge discussion originally opened on 30 May 2024, closed on 27 October 2024, and reopened on 27 December 2024 following the closure being overturned at AN. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:22, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Selected Ambient Works Volume II#Proposed merge of Stone in Focus into Selected Ambient Works Volume II

(Initiated 15 days ago on 6 January 2025) Seeking uninvolved closure; proposal is blocking GA closure czar 11:47, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Donald Trump#Proposal to supersede consensus #50

(Initiated 11 days ago on 10 January 2025) Seeking uninvolved closure; its degenerated into silly sniping and has clearly run its course. Slatersteven (talk) 16:46, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Yup, the discussion does need to be closed. GoodDay (talk) 18:30, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Xiaohongshu#Requested move 14 January 2025

(Initiated 7 days ago on 14 January 2025) Seeking uninvolved closure; its been more than 7 days and there appears to be a consensus. There haven't been new opinions for almost three days now. Queen Douglas DC-3 (talk) 22:08, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Place new discussions concerning other types of closing requests above this line using a level 3 heading

Quick question about "email this user"

Sorry, I never get into trouble so I don't know this stuff :) If I click on "email this user" and send them an email, and they later claim that I said something completely different from what I said, does anyone on-wiki have a way to check it? If not, what method do you guys prefer if you're trying to keep something private because you don't want to be publicly pointing a finger at someone, but you want to protect yourself in case they claim you said something different? - Dank (push to talk) 21:43, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Unless you're emailing a mailing list there is no record of the email sent, and no way to verify if someone lies about its content. The best you can do is select the "E-mail me a copy of my message" option on the email user form--Jac16888 21:50, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. - Dank (push to talk) 21:53, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Being slightly pedantic: that is not entirely true. I ask a CU to comment below.  Chzz  ►  22:05, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Right, checkuser can verify an email was sent but there is still no way to see the content of the email. –xeno 22:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Yep, thanks, Xeno, that was my pedantic point.  Chzz  ►  03:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I was under the impression that in case of an absolute emergency, the Devs could see the contents of the email. Was this an incorrect impression? Sven Manguard Wha? 06:31, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the correct impression. Sysadmins can view the contents of an email. -FASTILY 06:44, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Where do you have this information from? I don't know that any emails are being logged, not see it in mail config. Petrb (talk) 15:53, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't mean it's not true, it may be logged but I just don't think that Petrb (talk) 16:01, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I had a quick look at my own little MediaWiki installation, and did a text search in a database dump, and I don't seem to see stored sent mails anywhere in that, but maybe I missed it. More likely any "logging" is somewhere else (in the mail subsystem used by WP servers, for instance... developers could access that, and the mail subsystem could be configured to log outgoing mail). Alternatively, if it is correct, perhaps it's a particular configuration of the MediaWiki version for WMF sites (or just WP). Begoon  03:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

When a user sends an email via Special:EmailUser from this (English Misplaced Pages) wiki, currently: The MediaWiki system records the username (if registered), the IP address of the sender, the date/time that the email was sent, the sender's User agent, and an encoded version of the user-name and address of the user it was sent to. That information is only available to people with checkuser access (ie, checkusers, and Wikimedia/Jimbo, etc). The actual content of the email is not recorded by the currently deployed software - although, in theory, the server operators could store any and all information they see fit to (e.g. the content could be cached somewhere). Meta:Privacy policy applies in all cases.  Chzz  ►  04:00, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

(Deep breath.) If you wanted to you could mail a public key signed message, or merely a suitably checksummed message, and post the sig/checksum of the message on wiki, notifying your victim correspondent on their talk page. If they then wish to claim much later that you said something else they would have to produce a signed message by you with the required sig/checksum. You, conversely would be able to prove that you had sent the message you claimed (if any message). The only thing they could then say was that they received no message or didn't check the sig/checksum. Rich Farmbrough, 19:58, 10 December 2011 (UTC).

Send a copy at the same time to a trusted person, crat., steward or whatever. Leaky Caldron 20:16, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Good news: User:CorenSearchBot is back

I don't know if this has been mentioned in any well-read fora, but User:CorenSearchBot is back for now. A few extra eyes on Misplaced Pages:Suspected copyright violations would be very much appreciated. MER-C 08:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Huzzah! We just need ClueBot NG back and we can go back to letting the robots run everything. —Tom Morris (talk) 08:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords. ~Alison C. (Crazytales) 18:00, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

As long as they don't like beer (Did the Good News heading make anyone else think of a certain professor?) Crazynas 09:59, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

It is better to combat and fight vandalism. Its back when it was shut down on July 2011. --Katarighe (talk) 18:49, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Closers wanted for WP:V RfC

Hi. The RfC regarding the lead section of WP:V ended a little over a month ago. There was an agreement that it would be closed by User:Newyorkbrad, User:Black Kite and User:HJ Mitchell. However, this has not happened because of the low availability of two of those.

Would anyone be interested in joining the process so that it can get back on track?

There is an existing understanding that closers should be three in number, be admins in good standing, not have participated in discussions leading up to this point and not have commented elsewhere in such a way that their impartiality might be questioned.

It's a responsibility to be taken seriously. A minor change is at stake, but it is one about which there are strongly-held views. It's also the RfC with the highest ever level of participation on Misplaced Pages. So there is a lot to read and it will probably not be an open and shut case.

Any takers? If so, please put yourself forward by making your mark below. --FormerIP (talk) 15:52, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Tempted. Am I wrong, or is that RFC archived twice on that page? UltraExactZZ ~ Did 16:18, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I guess that will make it twice as much work. --FormerIP (talk) 16:46, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Could be persuaded. Depends how urgent it is, as there's a lot to read and I'm busy this weekend. Worm · (talk) 16:21, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it is urgent is the sense that a decision is needed by 10 am. But I think editors want to know that it is moving in a forward direction. --FormerIP (talk) 16:46, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm willing to step in if the two above me cannot or someone below me has more enthusiasm.--v/r - TP 16:32, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I could do it... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Maybe SlimVirgin could work with you. Leaky Caldron 16:41, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll have plenty of time starting Monday and am willing to wade through the stuff. --regentspark (comment) 16:47, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Excellent. I don't have the time to do it justice before Monday anyway so that suits me. If Worm will join us, we'll have the requisite three admins. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:59, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

From my limited knowledge of the three of you, that should be good. But can I suggest making yourselves known on the WP:V talkpage first? There has been a little concern there about the risk of a runaway train of biased and incompetent admins. Yes, its a tautological concept. --FormerIP (talk) 17:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

• just checking but are the victims... er I mean volunteers familar with the term hospital pass?? Spartaz 17:18, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. If no one has mentioned it at the RfC by tomorrow, I'll mention it then. Lots of reading to do... yay! Worm · (talk) 21:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

We are playing rugby now? :P --Guerillero | My Talk 18:42, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Government: "A government can also be agreed to in order to close very contentious RFCs. A notable example of this was the 2011 closure of the RFC on the "not truth" issue in the Verifiability policy text. While in principle any univolved Admin is free to close a RFC, in this case it was decided that a group of 3 editors should have the exclusive right to do this. While no other Admin was formally prohibited from ignoring that decision and close that RFC him/herself, in practice any such closure would have been swiftly reverted." Count Iblis (talk) 19:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

That proposal was pretty clearly rejected, Count Iblis -- taking the Rejected tag off is not a good idea. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:04, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I've rewritten it to reflect current practice. Count Iblis (talk) 20:51, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

• Comment It is my understanding that the permission class of a user that the Misplaced Pages community trusts to specifically judge consensus already exists. If we're going to limit this close to a certain class of editor based on permissions held why not entrust it to the people we already trust to make difficult decisions regarding consensus(send it to 'crat chat)?Crazynas 20:42, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

In no way is the above meant to disparage or attack the neutrality or objectiveness or ability to judge consensus of any of the administrators that have volunteered, more of a procedural question. Crazynas 20:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you're understanding is correct, actually, Crazynas. Admins/bureaucrats don't have the exclusive privilege of closing RfCs. --FormerIP (talk) 21:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

No I do understand that, which is why my second sentence was conditional. This is a question for this particular closure (and others of this nature) why we're limiting the close to a subset of editors that are not selected primarily for their ability to judge consensus when there already exists a usergroup that is scrutinized on their neutrality and ability to gauge consensus. (in other words, allow any editor in good standing to assist the close, or limit it to the well defined group of users that are promoted based on this specific type of trust to judge consensus). Crazynas 21:29, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh I see. Yes, actually, that makes sense, except bureaucrats do not present a very large pool. I think, in this particular case it is just a case of consensus, for better or worse, between involved editors that they wanted admins. --FormerIP (talk) 21:37, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and finish what I started on my userpage. I hope you all find it helpful in reaching a conclusion on the RfC. Cla68 (talk) 22:08, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Folks, we have what is one of the largest RFC's ever, and its about a month after comments were closed it looks like we don't even have the closers picked. May I suggest that we create the short list of potential folks here, vett them not only for having no relevant issues, but also for anything that someone could successfully pretend is a relevant issue. And if that doesn't get it down to three, flip a coin and pick three and then roll. North8000 (talk) 14:03, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

In my naiveness, I'm listing the above volunteers and the original three, so other folks can starting paring or adding to the list, please consider this to be editable (not like a part of my post). North8000 (talk) 14:16, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

• HJMitchell
• Black Kite
• NewYorkBrad
• Ultraexactzz
• Worm
• Regentspark
• SarekOfVulcan
• Cla68

I interpret the above discussion to mean that the "new team" of closers consists of HJ Mitchell, RegentsPark and Worm That Turned. Isn't that correct? Neutron (talk) 22:38, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

All three indicated that they would be willing... I would just like them to confirm that they are actually taking this on. Blueboar (talk) 22:41, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, please. North8000 (talk) 22:48, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

That was my understanding, but I also said that I won't be up to it until Monday. I'll probably spend a good chunk of monday afternoon on it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:51, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that people are in a super hurry, they just want to know that it is heading forward, which, right now means hearing a clear statement something like: "HJ Mitchell, RegentsPark and Worm That Turned are the trio that is or will soon be working on closing this" Can somebody say that? Thanks. North8000 (talk) 00:00, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Or to be more specific, can ALL of THEM say that? Neutron (talk) 02:40, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm certainly reading through. I hereby commit to the trio of closers. Worm · (talk) 08:54, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I've scanned the discussion but won't be able to read it carefully till Monday. Since a Monday-Tuesday timetable seems acceptable, I too hereby commit to the trio of closers. --regentspark (comment) 12:13, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

My thanks to Worm That Turned, RegentsPark and HJ Mitchell... it looks like we have our new "admin panel" in place. Hopefully it won't take yet another month... but we will be patient. Blueboar (talk) 14:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

FYI, am reading and writing right now - did I willingly volunteer for this :) --regentspark (comment) 14:33, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Me too. About halfway through the poll responses and making notes, but have a long way to go. What on earth did I agree to this for ;) Worm · (talk) 14:35, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry, nothing bad's going to happen. The sudden disappearance of Black Kite and Newyorkbrad after they agreed to take on the task is almost certainly nothing more than a coincidence... --FormerIP (talk) 14:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Still reading. This is mighty interesting. Also, I have noticed this guy with sunglasses, mac, and hat pulled down over his eyes following me around. Just another coincidence, I guess :) --regentspark (comment) 16:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Struck myself from the list above -- <Leghorn>that was a joke, son.</Leghorn>--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Closure of image compromise at Muhammad

I'd be grateful if an uninvolved admin could try and close the image compromise discussion at Talk:Muhammad/images. The exact section link is Talk:Muhammad/images#Proposed_image_solution, although there is other further discussion elsewhere on the talk page. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:53, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

• I'd certainly hope no one claims that wall of text is a closable discussion. Hold an RfC or something, but that's just an argument that is difficult to parse and too long to follow. Voting is evil, but unorganized walls of text are worse. There is just no way outsiders to that discussion could possibly follow or comment intelligently on it without spending at least 30 minutes. It currently stands (if I counted correctly) at more than 31,000 words. That's a third of a novel. At most I'd hope it would be closed as "hold an RfC". Disclaimer/comment: I personally believe a handful of editors are creating these walls more-or-less on purpose in an attempt to get their way on censorship related issues. WP:NOT's talk page being a good example, with the pregnancy image debate being another one (but it at least was readable). Hobit (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I tend to agree. Frankly, the discussion got trainwrecked by a couple editors (one on each side), and movement forward is unlikely as a result. An RfC would be pointless for the same reason. Resolute 00:47, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
    • • I don't have the time to read it all just now, and probably wouldn't if I did. You're talking about Ludwigs and whom? If you think they're an impediment to reaching a stable article, would you support an article ban for both? I find it impossible to discuss the topic with every thread being derailed into a battle of the egos. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 05:19, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
        • And Tarc. But remove the former, and you remove the latter as well. Ludwigs goes somewhere, repeats the same arguments he made 100 times already, and Tarc replies with the same rebuttal he made 100 times already. Ludwigs moves to the next forum, rinse, repeat. And voila, 500kb of "discussion". Resolute 06:21, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
          • My problem is not with Ludwigs' position - that it's a net negative for the encyclopedia to be gratuitously offending our readers - with which I agree, but with his style of argument, seemingly more intent on impressing posterity or silent watchers with his considerable eloquence and logical prowess than engaging and convincing his interlocutor. I thought you Erasorhead, Jayen, Mathsci and the others (excluding Alan, IP and Tarc) were working towards something there but once Ludwigs returned from his month away, the delicate and elegant resolution you'd proposed just got shoved aside while the various gladiators preened and posed. I don't think I've ever called for an article ban before but I'm seriously tempted here. I'll let Ludwigs know about this. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 06:54, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
            • While Ludwigs has definitely been annoying and over-argued, he has been prepared to compromise. I'm sorry but I strongly object to topic banning an editor who has behaved significantly better than the editors on the other side. If you want to do a two sided topic ban (so Alan, IP, Tarc and Ludwigs) I'm OK with that, and I'm OK with blocking whoever you think is the worst offender - and that isn't Ludwigs. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:38, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
              • I've thought about it some more, and I think this needs to go to Arbcom. They can look at the evidence and decide what to do with regards to topic bans. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
    • I was hopeful that someone might try and close it, but fair enough. I thought it was a better option than escalation. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:33, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

This is now at arbcom Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Muhammad_Images. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:33, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Punishment of exposing someone's identity

I recognized an old user who used to edit under a different username last year, but ended it and started a new one. I went to his new user-page and called him with his old user ID (essentially exposing his old "user" identity). I wonder if I qualify for any sort punishment.69.232.73.16 (talk) 05:10, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

If you are genuinely concerned that you've outed someone's identity, pointing out that you've outed someone's identity on this noticeboard is going to further compound rather than resolve the problem. —Tom Morris (talk) 08:41, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, genuinely revealed the old username of a current user and my IP has been blocked by an administrator for one month(saying that he knows the user corresponding to this IP). I am asking here if that is a fair punishment.--69.232.73.16 (talk) 12:57, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Of course it is. And evading that valid block by editing with a new IP address isn't good either. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:03, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Even though the rule says, an IP must not be blocked for more than a few hours?

"Most IP addresses should not be blocked more than a few hours," --69.232.73.16 (talk) 13:46, 9 December 2011 (UTC) By the way, I did not expose his name/address or anything; just his old user ID. Does that also violate the policy?69.232.73.16 (talk) 13:48, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

"Should not" ≠ "must not". I'm not sure whether you're genuinely concerned or just trolling us; if the former, you should contact WP:OVERSIGHT, and if the latter, you should stop before an admin less charitable than I blocks you. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 00:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

That's kinda what I hinted at above ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 00:08, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Some IP's are blocked for months or years, just not "indefinite", unless maybe they're open proxies. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 05:11, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep

Would an admin close Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep? The discussion has been open 10 days.

I ask that the closer not be an arbitrator or arbitrator candidate as NWA.Rep (talk · contribs) is an arbitrator candidate.

I further ask that the closer not be a writer of an arbitrator voter guide because the user has said: "the lynch mob (namely the arbcom voters guide writers) wants me out of this project and are disgracefully trying to sneak this Mfd through when all the people who support it are the 'arbcom voter guide' writers". Thanks, Cunard (talk) 04:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

If that guy manages to get elected to the ArbCom, it should be a cinch for me the next time I run for admin. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 05:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll do it. 28bytes (talk) 16:56, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done. 28bytes (talk) 17:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

How about User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr, is their consensus to delete that too? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr has been filed. Sven Manguard Wha? 09:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Closure of VPR

Hi could you please review and close http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29#.22Blocked.22_template_tweak it's blocker for deployment. Petrb (talk) 15:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the thread needs closure per se. It's quite clear that there is consensus in support of the proposal. You now need to convince developers to turn it on.  Sandstein  17:07, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I am a developer it can't be deployed if discussion isn't closed. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32819 Petrb (talk) 18:43, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Where is this procedure stated? Rmhermen (talk) 05:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

https://www.mediawiki.org/Writing_an_extension_for_deployment Petrb (talk) 07:11, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's closed now. Feel free to implement. -FASTILY 07:36, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

User:TreasuryTag unblock request – December 2011

User:TreasuryTag has requested to be unblocked. I am taking no position on that, but per his request will copy the unblock request here for the community to discuss, as his previous declined unblock request was judged to be a community ban, and this is the venue for considering whether to rescind such bans. 28bytes (talk) 19:24, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I've been gone for more than two months now, and I daresay some people have noticed the peace and quiet broken only by occasional orchestrated assaults on the project!
Meanwhile, I've been racking up a lot of edits I want to make. Edits that need to be made. Not controversial; not deletion-related; not Doctor Who-related – completely free of the areas where I seem to have generated trouble in the past.
I understand that I caused a lot of problems, understand how it happened, and fully intend to stop it from happening again. I'm already topic-banned from initiating any sort of deletion for six months after being unblocked, so there can't be any issues in that department, and as I say, I've discovered new areas of editing to go into which are (a) away from my past fault-lines and (b) sorely in need of an experienced, good-faith editor like myself.
Please let me back in! Best, ╟─TreasuryTag►quaestor─╢ 19:01, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

This unblock request is so accomplished that I find it almost irresistible. Hans Adler 20:35, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I can resist it. A longer break will do wonders for TT's attitude when he returns. A thought: it might help his case if we could see some evidence of trouble-free contribution on another Wikimedia project. The block is not a global one across his unified account. --Dweller (talk) 21:03, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

• One minor point on the phrasing of the copied-over statement, regarding: "Edits that need to be made". No, no edit "needs to be made"; we don't need any contributor, especially if they are unable to collaborate with other people. Having said that, I'm of two minds about the appeal. Two months is not very long, and I find it hard to believe that TT's combative attitude has vanished. His unblock statement is heartening, and suggests the break did him some good, but did it do him enough? If a little is good, more must be better: I'm not sure the break was long enough, but if TT (and everybody who comments here) thinks so then I don't see a problem with letting him return. He certainly did good work when he was around and tried to be professional. For the purposes of the closing administrator, this is a tentative support. AGK 21:17, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support unblock I've never wished to see TT blocked long-term, merely for him to stop being so gratuitously abrasive when there was no call for it. If he'd go along with that, I'd welcome him back. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:22, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
• Support' The potential benefit of giving a second chance here far outweighs the potential discomforts of having to block him again if he doesn't deliver on his promises.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:23, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
• Support unblock he's done enough time and seems to have made significant progress of understanding the issues that caused the block and seems positive about avoiding them. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:27, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I think User:Worm That Turned is wiser than I am - so oppose per him. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:47, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose (with regret) I was quite unimpressed when the last discussion was interpreted as a "de facto ban", something that appeared to come from left side and was unfair on TreasuryTag. I've had a couple of editors come to me and suggest that whilst they were opposing at the time, it was only for that specific discussion, and not for future ones. Having said that, I am not sure I can support an unblock of TreasuryTag, with no restrictions besides the topic ban. When HJ Mitchell unblocked him a few months ago, his restrictions were lax and TreasuryTag flouted them - I'm not sure that I believe he will not return to his old behaviour. Perhaps with mentoring or strongly enforced restrictions or even evidence that he has changed, I could support, but the unblock request does not persuade me. Worm · (talk) 21:46, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

• Then if that were to happen again, we'd block him again. This small risk is worth taking. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:16, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
• What about making a counter proposal that you could support ? Mtking 22:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

• I would want to see someone actively working with TT, who could nip problems in the bud before they escalate. Depending on what the results of the ArbCom election are, I would be willing to do that - which I mentioned last week on my talk page. Otherwise, I'd like to see some evidence that he has changed, perhaps from work on another WMF project or a decent period where he accepts there is an issue. It's less than 2 months since the discussions died down, and from what I understand, he has appealled this block to a number of admins hoping one would endorse an unblock. Andy, I know reblocks are cheap, but if no one is watching him then I believe he is likely to cause too many problems. I find it telling that TreasuryTag is so desperate to come back to the encyclopedia, that he will not until the announcement of the ArbCom results (less than a week from the point he made this request). As such, I think he'd say anything that might persuade people to let him back in, and so unfortunately, I'm not willing to take his word on this matter. Worm · (talk) 09:30, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose (also with regret). I've seen TT around a lot, and I fully acknowledge his great contributions and I really would like him back on the project. But with his extensive history of abrasive and aggressive confrontation with others, and the past breaking of promises, I could only support an unblock with some sort of reasonably strict mentorship, restrictions, or other supervisory plan in place - and I do hope that can be achieved in the not-too-distant future -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:02, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
• Comment one has to wonder if we need an unblock option for 1 day and so on. So that we can give an editor a chance to demonstrate that they are reformed. They can ask for longer periods each time and maybe get back to normal status. Probably not worth the effort to implement, but I think the concept still makes sense. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:39, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

• Wouldn't re-blocking an editor that has only been productive since their unblock just be making a point?Crazynas 22:57, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

"Probation" is a common practice in the real world. The point is that it is much easier to reinstate the e.g. block if the terms are violated; starting over from scratch is not required. Setting up such a thing might be good. From their wording where "you need me" is emphasized (including in the selection of a link) the and "I've changed" is barely there, I'm guessing that they they have not changed much, but that would be a way to find out, and possibly a way to modify their behavior. North8000 (talk) 23:21, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I understood Vegaswikian's proposal as saying that just like a user can be blocked for a specific amount of time, so that they are automatically unblocked afterwards, we might want to unblock a user with an automatic block later on. It would be even better if we coud set this up periodically, so that e.g. an editor would be allowed to edit only 2 hours per day or so. I suspect that many of the behavioural difficulties on this site have to do with its addictive nature. This is a way in which many blocked editors would still be able to contribute productively, and I think quite a few editors who would otherwise start full-time socking might be led to find a better real-life/Wikipedia balance instead. Hans Adler 00:39, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Comment  While on the one hand, the behavior here in making an unblock request is obsessing and bounds testing; fuel to the fire is the vagueness of the indef block, which must be frustrating.  Suggest changing the indef block to a two-month block to be followed by the start of the six-month topic ban.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
• Support Unblock- basically because if this is opposed then we might as well add the following to the indef blocking policy: "An indefinite block is permanent and irreversible, with no possibility of appeal, under any circumstances, ever." What we have here is an editor who has contributed a lot of good stuff to the encyclopedia and can certainly continue to, but who has got himself in trouble by being obnoxiously opinionated and combative. After two months out of the game there is strong evidence of a change in outlook and a commitment to stay away from the areas that got him into trouble. What more can be demanded? Further, the long and messy discussion that led to the indef block was vague, confusing and frustrating to all involved, and I think indef blocks with a lingering air of dodgyness should be easier to reverse than clear-cut ones. If we unblock, there are two things that could happen. Either TT stays out of trouble, in which case we gain a productive editor, or he reverts back to being objectionable, in which case he can't do much harm because everyone will be watching him. Unblocking has only upside and no downside. If we refuse to unblock, TT's gone for good and it makes a joke of principles like WP:OFFER and "indef != permanent"- only downside and no upside. Thanks. Reyk _YO! 00:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

  Reyk, the spirit of WP:OFFER is that when some time has passed, editors can change. Since his block on the 6th October, there was over 2 weeks of discussions regarding it. TT took it to Arbcom, who turned him down then asked me if we could go for another unblock request early November, I suggested early next year. Since then, a few admins who had tentatively supported his last request have come to me to mention that TT had approached them about unblocking. Last week, one of them asked me on my talk page if my offer to mentor was still open and I suggest it was, depending on the results of the ArbCom elections. Rather than waiting for that, which would be a few more days, TT put forward this request. TT has not stayed away for 6 months, under WP:OFFER, nor has he stayed away for 2 months. In fact, I don't believe he's stayed away at all. Worm · (talk) 09:38, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose, with great regret (sorry, TT, it's nothing personal) and noting my disagreement with the above comment by Reyk. To address Reyk's comment first, declining to unblock an editor at this stage does not banish them to the waste bin of history—it merely says that more time is required—and you would find me vehemently opposed to any proposal to permanently remove TT from this project. However, I do not feel that sufficient time has yet passed for TT to fully appreciate where he went wrong and for the wounds he caused to heal. TT has previously been unblocked under fairly lenient restrictions—themselves imposed to mitigate the potential for him to get himself into trouble in the same way that led to his original indefinite block—and made next to no effort to adhere to them, so I am sceptical that, just a few weeks down the line, he is ready to be released from his third indefinite block in six weeks. That said, I would very much like to see TT back at some point; I just feel that now is too soon. I would suggest another appeal once the block has been in effect for between three and six months. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:41, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Support Unblock. It's been a little over two months since TreasuryTag was blocked, and, as demonstrated in his unblock request, he has clearly learned a lot from that experience. Furthermore, he has agreed to stay away from the topics and areas that resulted in him being blocked in the first place. Like those above, I'm more than ready to give him a chance to prove his worth and contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. -FASTILY 01:46, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose This user has been blocked thirty four times. See here and here. Even asking for unblock after only two months is basically asking us how stupid we are. Well, how stupid are we? Stupid enough to believe that chance number thirty five will be the one that finally works out? I hope not. I instead propose that we not allow this long-term disruption to continue, that we revoke TTs talk page access and refer him to WP:BASC if he wishes to appeal in the future. By the way, before anyone gets all upset and thinks I am saying they are stupid, that's not what I am saying. It was not widely noted in this user's recent history that they had been renamed several times, and that each of those names had a substantial block log of it's own. However, I should hope that the collective "we," now in full possession of the facts regarding how long this problem has really been going on, (again, 34 blocks over a period of about four years) would not be so foolish as to trust this user again after so short a time, and in consideration of the possibility that the renames may have been a strategic maneuver to make these facts less obvious. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:27, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. I was wondering why it felt like there was less drama on here recently. Now i know why. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:30, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - Too soon. This editor's disruptiveness well outweighed his contributions to the project. Six months, minimum, I think, and then if he still wants to return, we welcome him back with open arms. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:29, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Too soon, given the extensive disruption caused.  Chzz  ►  04:50, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. I got an extremely similar email from TT about a week or two ago. I'm guessing he carpet-bombed such requests to at least a handful of admins, hoping someone would bite, and I'm not impressed by that. To me, the request reads as pretty clearly him playing nice through gritted teeth, and the (apparently) scattershot deployment of the request makes me think he realizes that enough people are going to be unimpressed by it that he needed to plant multiple seeds in the hopes that one might grow. In addition, his initial ban came after enough blocks, and enough trampling of second chances and olive branches, that I'm simply not convinced - and I'm not sure how I could be convinced - that TT is capable of operating within Misplaced Pages's guidelines and mores. There is no restriction or parole that has held TT, no matter how repentant he claimed to be, so far; why would we believe that any would work now?

  As a side note, as far as I know, BASC has already declined at least one appeal from TreasuryTag and stated that he may appeal again six months after that. I'm not at all certain that the ability to lift this ban even lies in the hands of the community any longer, given that restriction. I wonder if an arb or someone more well-versed in ban policy than I could weigh in on this. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 04:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

On matters of blocking/unblocking, the community always has the power to override ArbCom. However, in a case like this BASC could be an effective buffer for making sure TT doesn't get unblocked purely through attrition, that is requesting it every month until people get tired of it and stop commenting. BASC could insure that only requests that have a reasonable chance of succeeding are put back to a discussion, and could limit the number of times that happens, but only if we revoke talk page access and possibly email as well in light of the fact that TT has, according to above posts, also been attempting to canvass by email. Beeblebrox (talk) 05:09, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• • Fluffernutter is correct; the Arbitration Committee en banc, not just the BASC, reviewed Treasury Tag's request that his block be lifted, and responded to him on 23 October that we upheld the community decision, and that he could appeal again to BASC/Arbcom in six months. However, that does not prevent the community, which imposed the ban in the first place, from reviewing it at any interval that the community feels suitable. The community may wish to impose a minimum timeframe for a community review as well, but I think that decision is best left in the hands of the community, and I (speaking as an individual arbitrator, and not for the Committee) would leave that issue to the community to decide. Risker (talk) 05:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose as well - the 34 times and the ArbCom statement sway me. I would like to discourage pushing any problematic user onto another project to show improvement. Any problems here are best dealt with here and some other projects have far fewer resources to manage difficult editors. Rmhermen (talk) 05:29, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose The standard offer lists six months as the default time. TreasuryTag was particularly disruptive, and particularly incapable, seemingly until now, of recognizing the reasons we were upset with him. He needs to wait at least another four months, preferably ten months, IMO. Sven Manguard Wha? 06:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Support - Since he has agreed that he made a few problems in the past and he will be a little more careful in the future. And he will refrain from contributing in the areas he has made problems at. And I agree that this is now sufficient time. (Would you mind signing my guestbook?) -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 06:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Too many problems in the past to un-ban so quickly.   Will Beback  talk  06:37, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - I don't know much about TreasuryTag's history here, but it's been only two months since he was blocked, banned, expelled, whatever. I'll rely on my IRL experience : 2 months is way too short for someone to reflect on their actions and to "change". It's easy to say whatever the community/boss wants to hear (e.g. I acknowledge my errors, I'll do better, give me a chance), perhaps it's a first for TT, but it's still an easy thing to do/say. In light of this, and after reading the above, I'll need more than words to be swayed on this; a much more concrete, detailed, specific, thought out plan of what he will edit, how he will edit it, and why we should let him edit it; "an area where an editor like me is needed" is way too abstract and vague. As a general rule, like Sven, I think 6 months should be a standard wait-it-out period, and 12 would be ideal. A mere 2 months served, and coming up with a boilerplate 'acknowledged, sorry, I identified a good area where to edit, thanks' rationale, with no specifics? Sorry, but I don't buy it. That said, and even though I've read the various threads, I'm not familiar with TT and his actions, and thus my opinion should be weighted accordingly. CharlieEchoTango (contact) 06:41, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - Given the 34 blocks over four years, I don't think two months is enough time for someone to change their behavior. Kcowolf (talk) 07:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Block statistic: TreasuryTag's blocks are spread over four block logs, and these are not easy to read. So I made a statistic: 12 straightforward blocks, 4 block tightenings, 15 blocks followed by unblock on request, 3 blocks followed by unblock marking them as erroneous or inappropriate, 4 technical blocks to connect accounts. I believe the last two categories should not be held against the user in this context. That leaves 27 blocks, of which 4 were followed by a tightening and 15 were followed by an honoured unblock request. All this over a period of 5 years / almost 50,000 edits. It amounts to roughly 1 block per 9,000 edits. Hans Adler 09:06, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose - Although I supported his last request, a de facto community ban isn't answered by an unban/unblock request in two months. If he had just stayed away and let the issues be forgotten, he may have gotten off after a few months, but stirring this all up again so soon is just ridiculous. I'll also add that TT emailed me a while back, looking for advice on how he could return, and I obliged. I'm disappointed to see that he apparently decided to opt for an hasty (and pretty generic) unblock request instead. I'm not seeing any real concrete restrictions, no mentorship plan, nothing said that convinces me that a community ban should be overturned so soon. Swarm 09:14, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose far too soon, especially as the unblock conditions in the last unblock were promptly broken. Hut 8.5 12:29, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Far too soon. There was some sound advice in his editor review in June, and in August he proclaimed that he would be weaning himself off Misplaced Pages for good. He hasn't taken any notice of the former, and didn't do the latter. Users have been blocked for longer for less, and based on this I see no reason for an earlier unblock, and he should sit this one out for a full 6 months at the very least. Any return should be tied to extremely strict conditions. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Comment In their request, their wording emphasized "you need me" (including in the selection of a link) and anything about true change is de-emphasized/barely there. And this is when they are at their best, trying to get back in. I think that a request that is a much more explicit commitment on the latter would be the minimum to expect. North8000 (talk) 13:41, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Support with extreme hesitance. The timing is terrible. I am one of those contacted by TT, and I did follow up (although TT may not realize this.) I reached out to Worm, who had volunteered to act as mentor, to see if the offer still stood, in light of the ArbCom elections. Understandably, Worm expressed concern about such a commitment if elected to ArbCom. I understood, and decided to wait until elections were over (which they are, just awaiting results). So the "chomping at the bit" when a couple more days might ring a more positive result, is troubling. However, as Hans Adler points out, the block history isn't as simple as the raw number would suggest. TT has contributed immensely, and a reformed TT would be a great addition. My sense of the results so far is that this isn't yet reaching a positive consensus, although it could but if it does come down as a support for unblock, I urge TT to read the close call as a strong mandate for extreme caution. Many opposers, and I daresay some supporters, would be quick to impose a block in a situation where another editor might get a minor warning. --SPhilbrickT 14:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Support with reservations. I have mostly seen the good side of TT and was saddened when I found the other side. I would support the maintenance of the topic ban(s), but would be interested to see what could come of TT editing away from there. I would agree with Sphilbrick's comments about TT needing to use caution if successful - this is early for a request, and if restoring TT lead to another disaster, it would be a lot longer than the mentioned six months before a request could possibly be considered again. Peridon (talk) 15:37, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - too soon, it's only about three weeks since his last unblock request. Come back in late March/April with some other wiki contribution history. Nothing in the unblock request shows any understanding of the issues imo. As per User:Dweller, who had tried with TT and still is I imagine. Youreallycan (talk) 15:41, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

  I count about 6 weeks since last on wiki request was closed (the one I raised), and a matter of days since the last off-wiki one was brought to my attention. Not sure about 3 weeks. Worm · (talk) 15:48, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

  Here, at the list of banned users, it says TT had a appeal to WP:BASC declined on October 24, 2011. - seven weeks ago, thanks for the correction. Youreallycan (talk) 17:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose He's rude and insulting and this is a much more hospitable project without him. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 15:47, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - TT has burned out any AGF I used to hold towards his ability to work with others. I believe, given all of the past promises, unblocks, and re-blocks that TT will say what he believes we want to hear in order to be allowed to edit again. Given this is largely a behavioural issue that extended over years I simply don't buy that in the short time he has been away he has become rehabilited, seen the light, and will now be able to edit collaboratively. In short, I ain't buying what he's selling. Jezebel'sPonyo 16:09, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

User:Greg L unblock request (baffling block) – December 2011

I can't make any sense of the block of Greg L (talk · contribs), allegedly for disruption (the only evidence is to a discussion at Talk:Yogurt which was mostly caused by a misunderstanding, but was resolved much better and quicker than most disagreement I see on talk pages). Greg has asked for an unblock review, but so far no response from anyone. If I was so blatantly wrongfully blocked, I would hope someone would try to get the attention of an admin to unblock me, so here I am doing that for Greg. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

If anyone should be blocked for disruption, it should be the admin who blocked Greg. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:51, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Born2cycle. The block by User:2over0 needs to be explained to the community. GFHandel ♬  00:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• I agree. 2/0 needs to explain his block to the community. It looks like a terrible block to me. I see nothing blockworthy in anything Greg said at Talk:Yoghurt. It looked like an animated but ultimately productive discussion to me. Reyk _YO! 00:59, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

This was 2over0's first action after 2 two weeks of inactivity and he hasn't done anything since, either. It looks as if there is only boilerplate text, so maybe he just pressed the wrong button somewhere and isn't aware of what he has done? (Admins will know better if that idea makes sense.) Or maybe his account is compromised or something.

It seems pretty much out of character, so the situation should be monitored and maybe the account blocked if things don't get clearer soon. Hans Adler 01:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Given the extensive instructions at User:2over0#Security, it almost looks as if he suspected something like this to happen at some point. Hans Adler 01:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I have unblocked Greg L. There was no reason for him to be blocked at all, especially without any sort of warning or discussion from the blocking admin. Horologium (talk) 01:06, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

To answer Hans's question, it is easy to block/unblock the wrong user if you regularly have a dozen tabs open at once. I've never done it, but I've protected/unprotected the wrong page before now!! However, this was the chap's only edit in two weeks, and only admin action in similar time. He doesn't appear to have been doing or looking at anything else on the project. Have to wait for an explanation I guess. Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:12, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to all for your help. I am now unblocked and able to edit. My block was indeed curious because 2over0’s contribution history shows he was off of Misplaced Pages for two weeks, dropped in to make just a single edit (block me) and immediately fell silent—even after others inquired on his talk page. I don’t profess to be super-expert on all-things-Misplaced Pages, but I do know human nature and find that unusual. Anyway, I very much appreciate my wiki‑friends stepping in here as well as other editors with whom I have had little-to-no interaction with stepping in here to do what they saw was the right thing. Regards. Greg L (talk) 01:36, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

It's actually even more weird than your summary. I suggest contacting Elen with any further information, as I have done. Hans Adler 09:27, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• I emailed User:2over0 last night to ask if it was really he who blocked me or if his account had been hacked. He assured me he has a strong password. Then he assured me that I had not been contributing in a productive and collegial manner. Implicit in the email was that his block was good stuff.

  There were eight years of hard feelings and water under the bridge over on Talk:Yogurt and nerves were apparently raw over the spelling change (*sigh*).

  But why intervention by 2over0 after being off Misplaced Pages so long? At the time of my block (23:30 (UT) on the 11th), there was no mention of “yogurt” on ANI. It stretches credulity to think that 2over0 thought, after a two-week wiki‑break, he would peruse Misplaced Pages, land on Talk:Yogurt, block me, and go back to watching “Jeopardy” on TV. It further stretches credulity to think that 2over0 had some special page watchlisted and, after two weeks of watchlisting, he ended up straight at Talk:Yogurt and did as he did.

  It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on here. The most likely explanation is that someone on that talk page took offense, emailed 2over0 asking for a block, and 2over0 blithely obliged. Whoever asked 2over0 to do so clearly knew who to go to for a drive‑by blocking. It would be nice if whoever put 2over0 up to this to come forward and man‑up to putting 2over0 up to this. Greg L (talk) 15:51, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I'd suggest that there is more than a touch of bad faith in that accusation, and whilst I have no comment on the block itself, the chances that 2over0 was reading Yoghurt/Yogurt even if he wasn't actively contributing on wiki seems reasonably high to me. The person you should be taking this up with is 2over0, who is responsible for his own actions. Worm · (talk) 15:56, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Greg: I found your comments toward Boing! Said Zebedee on the Yogurt talk page to be fairly obnoxious, to be honest. If someone did ask 2over2 to take a look, I don't blame them. I would strongly recommend you consider moderating your aggressive tone. Be thankful that consensus was against the block in this case, but be aware that if you continue to unnecessarily inflame and escalate situations, as you did in this case, more blocks may be in your future, and they may indeed be supported by consensus. 28bytes (talk) 16:01, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I am not seeing anything in that discussion that could be described as "fairly obnoxious" or blockable - and at the end of it BsaidZ says, Looks good to me. And yes, all just a misunderstanding - but all's well that ends well. Cheers. - Who was it that asked 2over to have a look? 2over is making a poor job of explaining his reasons for the block also. Youreallycan (talk) 16:12, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

It seems clear that hard feelings at Talk:Yogurt have spilled over far and wide across the wiki-land and I find it silly. As Horologium wrote, There was no reason for him to be blocked at all, especially without any sort of warning or discussion from the blocking admin. I think we all know what was probably going on here. What is abundantly clear to me is making this ANA any more protracted than it is will inevitably lead to polarization and further accusations being slung about that someone or another is acting in bad faith. Misplaced Pages is an all-volunteer collaborative writing environment and there are different skill levels at every level. 2over0 took the time to respond to my email but elected—so far anyway—to not respond here, which is his right; none of us have been drafted into the Army and we may all participate to the extent we see fit. There is no point pursuing anything anymore. I’m done here then. Thanks to those who intervened. Greg L (talk) 16:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Hey folks, I've only just seen this. I'd just like to confirm that the discussion I had with Greg L was purely down to a misunderstanding, and my feeling was that it had been settled amicably - so for the record, I don't support the block, and I do support the quick unblock -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:37, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Temporary desysop

Yes, Greg's comments and attitude were a little obnoxious, but they did not cross the lines of civility, at least not clearly. In any case, there was no justification for any kind of authoritarian intervention whatsoever, and, even if someone thought there was, the first step should have been a friendly suggestion, not a warning, much less a block.

Such a blatant abuse of power (blocking someone for comments in an inconsequential discussion that resulted in a quickly resolved misunderstanding), made even worse by a failure to explain his actions on his own talk page or here, indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of one's responsibilities as an admin, and the blocking policy.

If possible, to prevent further such abuses, I propose that 2over0 (talk · contribs) be relieved of special admin privileges for, say, a period of 30 days, to make sure they are not abused again. --Born2cycle (talk) 16:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support As proposed. --Born2cycle (talk) 16:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed. If he isn't trusted enough for the tools now, he shouldn't automatically get them back in 30 days. Leave them, or take them, don't do both. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:53, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• - Yes, as per Sarek. With the details that we have I couldn't support recall for a single error as an admin. If he refused to , or is unable to clearly explain what happened and exactly who asked him and why he made the block - I could support him being blocked for the same length of time as the unexplained and quickly reverted block that he made. Youreallycan (talk) 16:56, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Seems to be a one off, so removal of tools would be disproportionate. Recommend administration of oily fish, as Occam's Razor says he probably just didn't read all the way down to the bottom and see that Greg L and Boing had made up. Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose The blatant misuse of the block button is allowed.--Cube lurker (talk) 17:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Neutral Mistakes can be easily forgiven. The misunderstanding I had with Boing! said Zebedee was purely one of my devoting too little time to carefully parse what was written there; we all have to balance real life with our volunteer efforts here. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, so I do not at all favor de-sysoping because of a *mistake*. However, I question whether an editor who devotes so little time to Misplaced Pages and exercises so little attention to wiki‑courtesies (like responding to ANA postings on his talk page asking him to explain his reasoning to the rest of the community) ought to still be using his sysop tools. Greg L (talk) 17:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Emphatic Oppose 2/0 is generally a sensible and reasonable admin, and I think this is the first time I've ever seen him accused of misuse of the tools. This block was inappropriate (and his refusal to engage the discussion here is irksome), but in no way at all does it rise to the level of a de-sysop, temporary or otherwise. Horologium (talk) 17:24, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose lacking a pattern of abuse, or immediate threat of further abuse. I would also rather 2/0 be given the opportunity to address the situation before we take any drastic action. Resolute 17:24, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Can someone please check over today's "Google doodle" topic

Today's Google doodle topic is Robert Noyce, and as usual his WP article is nearly his top g-hit. I read over the article and did a few minor copy edits, and was going to leave a message on the talk page with respect to the over-referencing and use of footnotes to include "cute" anecdotes, when I noticed an allegation of plagiarism. I'm not able to address this myself, as I am about to log off, but it would probably be good if another experienced editor would review the talk page allegations and perhaps also look at some of the other referencing. I know this probably doesn't belong here, but this page is more heavily watched around the clock than most others, and since the article has already required semi-protection due to its sudden popularity, this request is a bit time sensitive. Risker (talk) 06:00, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• In the External Links, this page is mentioned as a biography: http://www.elahmad.com/Robert_Noyce.html
• The content of the page is almost identical to the article on Misplaced Pages. Certainly looks suspicious, though whether it was made itself from the Misplaced Pages article who knows. Either way, the external link to it is pointless as its a duplicate of content here. I'll let someone with more copyright knowledge work out who copied who... (Its semi-protected anyway so nothing for an IP to do.)) --81.98.52.181 (talk) 08:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not a copyright expert by any means. But the link was added today with the edit here. I also note that the elahmad page has the reference in the second paragraph of the career section, which suggests to me that they copied the Misplaced Pages article, but didn't remove all the references. - Kingpin (talk) 08:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Someone should remove it from the external links section then. If all it does is duplicate Misplaced Pages content (and claim its a biography) it is of no use to the reader as an external link, and adds no support to any claims in the article anyway because its a cyclical reference. --155.245.103.78 (talk) 10:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

In future, folks, remember that {{backwardscopyvio}} is around to flag instances of external sites that copy our content being suspected of being plagiarised. But in this case, it's simply a spammy portal linkfarm. I'd be unsurprised if there were plenty of other examples hidden on that site. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:03, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• Well, actually, I was talking about Talk:Robert Noyce#Possible Plagiarism (dating back to July 2010), which suggests that at least part of the copy was taken from the PBS website, not that external link. The article has had a lot of changes since I looked in last night, so I am not certain if this has been addressed. Risker (talk) 16:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Duplicate detector suggests some still remains - but it has its roots in pretty deep. I don't have the time at the moment to do it, but the article needs a deep clean just to rephrase the copied portions. --Errant 16:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

RfC on non-free images needs to be closed

Would an admin please visit the RfC here regarding non-free images of deceased persons, and close it one way or another? Thanks. --Noleander (talk) 07:35, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

User talk:213.232.79.43

Seeing as I cannot report this to AIV, and it is not really an incident, I am reporting that this IP needs its talk page access revoked for some time.—Ryulong (竜龙) 11:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I've removed talk page access for the duration of the block. Hut 8.5 12:15, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

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