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JSTOR
I have access to JSTOR through school, if you ever need a copy of a document, let me know. Ryan Vesey 04:19, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry to butt in, what's JSTOR? Adam Mugliston Talk 07:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) JSTOR! PamD 07:45, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Kinda busy to do that. Thought I'd ask and come back later when I have an answer. Adam Mugliston Talk 07:52, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- You are too busy to click on a link and read the first sentence? "JSTOR (short for Journal Storage) is an online system for archiving academic journals, founded in 1995." Instead, you have time to write a relatively rude reply to one of my talk page stalkers? I'm not impressed. Worm(talk) 09:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- On another note, it's time for my weekly Popups plug. Using popups would allow you to figure out what JSTOR was in about 10 seconds. In any case, it's a great resource which Misplaced Pages occasionally gives out in the same manner as Highbeam, Credoreference, and Questia except there are less subscriptions available. Ryan Vesey 15:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Kinda busy to do that. Thought I'd ask and come back later when I have an answer. Adam Mugliston Talk 07:52, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) JSTOR! PamD 07:45, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Oh and Ryan, thank you very much. I might well take you up on that offer! Worm(talk) 09:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- No problem, I saw you on the waiting list so I left a note. Ryan Vesey 15:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Oh my, I would LOVE to have access to JSTOR, I sure wish an individual could still get a subscription. Shearonink (talk) 14:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- You should add yourself to the list, have you signed up for any of the other services available at Misplaced Pages:The Misplaced Pages Library? Ryan Vesey 14:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Oh my, I would LOVE to have access to JSTOR, I sure wish an individual could still get a subscription. Shearonink (talk) 14:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- No problem, I saw you on the waiting list so I left a note. Ryan Vesey 15:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
IAR to Revert a BLP-PROD
Hi Dave! When I was on NPP today, I encountered an unsourced BLP. I googled it and couldn't find any reliable sources so I BLP-PRODed it. The author than reverted me citing IAR here. Is this the proper application of IAR? Thanks, Electric Catfish 16:13, 12 August 2012 (UTC).
- Also, I am working on sourcing BLPs using the button on Ryan Vesey's talk. However, can you please link me to the backlog category for articles with this tag? Thanks, Electric Catfish 18:06, 12 August 2012 (UTC).
- I'm also working on CAT:AFC and CAT: COPYEDIT. Electric Catfish 19:01, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hey Electriccatfish, a BLP-PROD cannot be removed per WP:IAR, luckily the article is sourced now. The category I use is Category:All unreferenced BLPs and I'm glad you like my button. Ryan Vesey 04:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, they cannot be removed per IAR because having an unsourced BLP on WP is not an improvement, per WP Consensus. As Ryan says, this is now sorted, which is a very good thing. And I think he's answered the rest of your questions :D Worm(talk) 09:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks guys. I checked the article and the author is edit-warring with a bunch of editors over the BLP-PROD tags, so I issued a {{uw-3rr}}. Electric Catfish 21:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, they cannot be removed per IAR because having an unsourced BLP on WP is not an improvement, per WP Consensus. As Ryan says, this is now sorted, which is a very good thing. And I think he's answered the rest of your questions :D Worm(talk) 09:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hey Electriccatfish, a BLP-PROD cannot be removed per WP:IAR, luckily the article is sourced now. The category I use is Category:All unreferenced BLPs and I'm glad you like my button. Ryan Vesey 04:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm also working on CAT:AFC and CAT: COPYEDIT. Electric Catfish 19:01, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
are you there? need to ask advice!
Don't know if I still have a private talk page with you. (I need a sanity check, quick!) Or can I email you? MathewTownsend (talk) 15:03, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Your adoption talk page is still there, I can provide you a link if you want. Or you can email me. Worm(talk) 15:05, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Not sure how urls work in email. MathewTownsend (talk) 15:44, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Archiving
Can someone help me set up archiving for this page: Talk:Citroën C3 Picasso. Thanks ツ Jenova20 16:02, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'd advise doing only manual archiving for an article talk page. Articles are only archived automatically if they have very active talk pages and it is absolutely necessary. Ryan Vesey 16:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Cool...how do i do that Ryan?? Thanks ツ Jenova20 16:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- This section explains it better than I can. Help:Archiving a talk page#Cut and paste procedure. Ryan Vesey 16:29, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Gave up, it's a minor issue anyway and i'm the biggest contributor on the talk page. Thanks though Ryan ツ Jenova20 12:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- This section explains it better than I can. Help:Archiving a talk page#Cut and paste procedure. Ryan Vesey 16:29, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Cool...how do i do that Ryan?? Thanks ツ Jenova20 16:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- It's fairly simple Jenova... I'm sure you can manage. You just have to cut the sections and paste them to Talk:Citroën C3 Picasso/Archive 1. I'll do the first one for you! Worm(talk) 15:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm unsere i can do this. I already tried twice and even tried copying what i saw on other articles. I'm the biggest contributor to the talk page anyway so it's not a big deal. Thanks Dave ツ Jenova20 15:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Really? I've done one for you. Just click edit section on the section you want to archive. Cut (ctrl-x), save. Got to Archive, click edit, paste at end (ctrl-v). Ta-da! Worm(talk) 15:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Oh that's manual archiving. Can't you just set it to automatic every time there's something that hasn't been added to for say...2 months? Thanks ツ Jenova20 18:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Really? I've done one for you. Just click edit section on the section you want to archive. Cut (ctrl-x), save. Got to Archive, click edit, paste at end (ctrl-v). Ta-da! Worm(talk) 15:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm unsere i can do this. I already tried twice and even tried copying what i saw on other articles. I'm the biggest contributor to the talk page anyway so it's not a big deal. Thanks Dave ツ Jenova20 15:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Some editors for admin watching
Think you could take a look at the interactions between User:Still-24-45-42-125 and User:Belchfire. Both editors seem to be hounding eachother and Belchfire has effectively banned Still-IP from his talk page; however, he still continues to comment on Still-IP's talk page . I'm neutral on the issue, but I feel both editors would find me on the other guy's side, so I thought I'd ask you for you opinion. I don't think admin action needs to be taken, but I do think some mediation needs to occur. If you want, I can try to find more history between the two, but most of the relevant history can be found in their talk page histories and at Wikiquette assistance. Ryan Vesey 16:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Just checking, did you see this? Ryan Vesey 13:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- I did. I saw it a week or so ago... am well aware of the mess across lots of pages. It's on my "I should look into this properly and do something about it, but I'm really quite busy so I also hope the problem will either go away or someone else will deal with it" list... along with more than one other thing. Not a list I like to have at any decent length :( Worm(talk) 13:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- What's one of the other things, perhaps I can shorten this list. Ryan Vesey 20:48, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm trying to get my head around this topic, where I have adoptees on both sides of the discussion. I basically need to work out what's going on so I can help point the right way forward. However, the depth of the article and discussions is making my head ache. I'll get there.. I'm sure. Worm(talk) 12:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'll hopefully read over it sometime, I've always been interested in DID (it might be one of those that I print out and read on a drive somewhere when I'm not driving of course). I woke up this morning to find an edit warring report of Still by Belchfire followed up with an ANI report of Belchfire and Lionelt by Still. I swear, they leave no noticeboard unturned when a hint of a dispute arises. We need something arbitrary like warrior a can only edit articles starting with a, c, e, g, i... warrior b can only edit articles starting with b, d, f, h, j... Ryan Vesey 12:37, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's silly season wrt politics at the moment, and it's only going to get worse as the American elections plow on. I'm pretty sure people are going to end up blocked as POV warriors and headaches will be had all round. One big mess at a time, eh? ;) Worm(talk) 12:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not appreciative of this hostile tone taken towards a new editor who did not seek this as they are. Instead, the editor went to the article and got caught in the crossfire. Probably not blockable, but still... Ryan Vesey 13:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
I've got to say, I can no longer declare myself neutral, but I believe Still has gotten disruptive to the point of being blockworthy. In addition to POV pushing and massive reversions that have resulted in multiple trips to edit warring noticeboards, he has been disruptively editing other peoples' comments and hatting comments that he doesn't like. I can honestly say that my editing experience is much worse since he started editing than it was before and I'm not even actively seeking him out. He keeps showing up on my radar with his disruption. He claims that there is a massive conspiracy to get him blocked, but refuses to acknowledge that the problem might be on his end. Ryan Vesey 20:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)I mean, his battleground mentality is on the obsessive side. He is currently looking to change his username to StillStanding-24. It's almost an issue like the one we saw with YRC. He believes that every editor who disagrees with him is so out to get him, he becomes impossible to work with. Nobody agrees with someone on everything. Ryan Vesey 20:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)- On second thought, I'll just start removing pages where he appears from my watchlist. Why let him ruin my enjoyment. Ryan Vesey 21:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not appreciative of this hostile tone taken towards a new editor who did not seek this as they are. Instead, the editor went to the article and got caught in the crossfire. Probably not blockable, but still... Ryan Vesey 13:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's silly season wrt politics at the moment, and it's only going to get worse as the American elections plow on. I'm pretty sure people are going to end up blocked as POV warriors and headaches will be had all round. One big mess at a time, eh? ;) Worm(talk) 12:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'll hopefully read over it sometime, I've always been interested in DID (it might be one of those that I print out and read on a drive somewhere when I'm not driving of course). I woke up this morning to find an edit warring report of Still by Belchfire followed up with an ANI report of Belchfire and Lionelt by Still. I swear, they leave no noticeboard unturned when a hint of a dispute arises. We need something arbitrary like warrior a can only edit articles starting with a, c, e, g, i... warrior b can only edit articles starting with b, d, f, h, j... Ryan Vesey 12:37, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm trying to get my head around this topic, where I have adoptees on both sides of the discussion. I basically need to work out what's going on so I can help point the right way forward. However, the depth of the article and discussions is making my head ache. I'll get there.. I'm sure. Worm(talk) 12:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- What's one of the other things, perhaps I can shorten this list. Ryan Vesey 20:48, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- I did. I saw it a week or so ago... am well aware of the mess across lots of pages. It's on my "I should look into this properly and do something about it, but I'm really quite busy so I also hope the problem will either go away or someone else will deal with it" list... along with more than one other thing. Not a list I like to have at any decent length :( Worm(talk) 13:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Re: PERM
Hi Dave! You requested me not to make closures at PERM/C. I respect your request, but I'd like to clarify a bit about the situation there. First of all, Armbrust has been handling things there for a while. I asked him if I could join him and he told me what to do. Anyways, most of the requests can be answered by using one of our templates. If the user requests to edit semi-protected pages, you respond with a template that tells him to use the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. If they request to upload a file, you direct them to FFU. If they request to upload an image, you template them asking them what the copyright status is. You also template them if they request to upload a free image and the template directs them to Comons. Anyways, some of the templates contain the {{not done}} template within them. Working at confirmed has nothing to do with my future RfA, but as my mentor, you have my best interests in mind. Now that I have clarified my position, please tell me what to do. Thank you again, Electric Catfish 20:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC).
- (talk-page stapler) Electric, I'd personally advise you not to close them, or archive them like Armbrust is doing. I'd also advise to only comment when there is something important that the closing administrator will miss, which will change their decision entirely. Thine Antique Pen (public) 20:57, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- I get the point, I won't work there for the time being. Also, I read what you posted at WT: PERM and I have to agree with you there. Lastly, regarding number 4, I feel the same way, however, what should I work on besides anti-vandalism? Is NPP alone sufficient enought? Electric Catfish 21:02, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, what do you mean what I posted on WT:PERM? Ye Olde Thine Antique Pen spends time on this and this. :) Thine Antique Pen (public) 21:06, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps this is some inside information, but what do you mean by "number 4"? Ryan Vesey 21:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- See what he wrote on WT: CVUA. Electric Catfish 21:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Aha, what WormTT wrote there. I'd have to agree with him there. Thine Antique Pen (public) 21:16, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Ahh, it is true that NPP doesn't seem to be sufficient on its own. Consider Swister Twister who recently failed an RfA. He was one of the most active new page patrollers. In any case, for the longest time, I was "on the track to adminship". All I can say is, jump off. You can continue editing in maintenance areas where you believe your input will be welcome and helpful, but I think working your way towards adminship is a bad idea. Edit where it's enjoyable and when you are ready, you'll be ready. Ryan Vesey 21:21, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Aha, what WormTT wrote there. I'd have to agree with him there. Thine Antique Pen (public) 21:16, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- See what he wrote on WT: CVUA. Electric Catfish 21:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- I get the point, I won't work there for the time being. Also, I read what you posted at WT: PERM and I have to agree with you there. Lastly, regarding number 4, I feel the same way, however, what should I work on besides anti-vandalism? Is NPP alone sufficient enought? Electric Catfish 21:02, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Ryan, you're totally right here. I joined this project with the sole intention of building an encyclopedia. I've been involved in some maintenance tasks recently and I've greatly enjoyed it. I've also realized that having the sysop tools enabled on my account would be quite useful. Anyways, I'm going to do what I enjoy and the time will come for adminship at some point. Electric Catfish 22:36, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
- Ryan is correct. I'd advise to not try and work your way towards any other rights, including sysop. I also advise that you don't self-nominate yourself when you think it's time for a RfA: I'd suggest waiting for a nomination from an established, trusted user. Thine Antique Pen (public) 07:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- I was never considering self-nominating myself. Electric Catfish 11:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- If you see, I suggest a nomination from an "established, trusted user."
Thine Antique Pen (public) 11:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- If you see, I suggest a nomination from an "established, trusted user."
- I was never considering self-nominating myself. Electric Catfish 11:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Hey Catfish. Thanks for getting back to me on this. I really do feel that it'd be best you kept away from administrative areas of wikipedia, at least for the time being. I'm not criticising the actual decisions you've made, I haven't looked into them, but I would like to see you confirming that you have a good solid knowledge of the basics before moving on. It's just part of my mentoring style. As I said, I don't mind you making comments at those areas, but I'd suggest no template usage, no suggestions of closure - even if it's clear cut and right. My plan for mentoring you is to go through my course, then discuss with you which admin area you'd like to look at, one at a time. As for RfA... Armbrust, whilst he's doing a perfectly good job, has two unsuccessful RfAs under his belt... perhaps not necessarily to best person to follow if RfA is an end goal. Finally, regarding my #4 at CVUA.... Magic Formula. Anti-vandalism + NPP is fine for the administrative work, but it's important you get it right rather than do lots. You still have to hit the "Content Creation" and "Working Well With Others" sections. I've had my eye on your umpire, though I haven't commented yet! Worm(talk) 11:37, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hey Dave! I'd also just like to inform you that I'm a DRN volunteer, so I am working on the interaction part of it. Electric Catfish 20:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- I like your mentoring style. I've seen your tests and they look pretty easy. Can you please give me the next two assignments on WQ and DR? Steven Zhang has taught me a lot about resolving disputes at the DRN. Electric Catfish 21:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
- DRN is a great place to learn the ropes, I certainly wouldn't complain about you participating (as long as you're not closing conversations!) I've marked your current set of answers, feel free to have a read over. I'll put up the next two lessons and associated assignments in a bit :) Worm(talk) 12:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- Actually, I do close discussions there if they are about user conduct, not about content. That's the policy there, and most of the people who actively work there are not admins. Electric Catfish 23:18, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- DRN is a great place to learn the ropes, I certainly wouldn't complain about you participating (as long as you're not closing conversations!) I've marked your current set of answers, feel free to have a read over. I'll put up the next two lessons and associated assignments in a bit :) Worm(talk) 12:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- I like your mentoring style. I've seen your tests and they look pretty easy. Can you please give me the next two assignments on WQ and DR? Steven Zhang has taught me a lot about resolving disputes at the DRN. Electric Catfish 21:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
|
The Original Barnstar |
| For all of the help that you have given me recently. I greatly appreciate it and it's great to have you as my mentor! Thank you! Electric Catfish 00:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC) |
Admin needed
Hi Dave. Could you chime in here please? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
|
The Brilliant Idea Barnstar |
| For your great proposal on WT: CVUA! Electric Catfish 20:50, 14 August 2012 (UTC) |
- Thank you. Worm(talk) 12:18, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
CVU
Looks like I opened a can of worms (pun). I hope they will take the advice and suggestions on board and that everything works out fine. Generally they are doing a good job in the best of GF. I'm rather concerned at the thought of their members wanting to instruct NPPers though, but I'm more than confident that you will be able to pull it off. Perhaps we need a board of instructors and mentors - with full hierarchy and bureaucracy of course :) I'm just wondering where this leaves me with my training video which is on hold until the NPF is perfected. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:47, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
BTW: Any idea why EC has been banned from the CVU's IRC channel? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:02, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- I think it was more that you were the straw that broke the worm's back :) I've been approached by 3-4 people with regards to the area, and I meant to chat to them about it earlier. Your comments at the RfA spurred me on. I think they're doing a great job overall, and it might well be our past experiences and jaded natures that make us pessimistic about the group - if they follow my recent suggestions I think they'll have little difficulty proving that they're as good as I believe they are. No idea about EC and IRC - first I've heard of it. Worm(talk) 09:28, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) They're looking into the banning issue. If I use a different IRC nickname, the ban does not apply. Also, thanks guys for all of your suggestions. You guys probably didn't know about the coordinator elections, which fueled much of the bureaucracy of the project. We've had several issues in the past with our students (4 have been blocked), which is why I asked ItsZippy to become an instructor with us. On behalf of the whole CVUA, I'd like to thank both of you for all of your help. Best, Electric Catfish 11:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC).
- Blocking is always a shame... but it does happen. A fair portion of my adoptees/mentored students have ended up blocked, at least 2 by my own hand. Not too surprising because I work primarily with the more disruptive areas of the community, and I think you'll find there will always be a correlation between those who just want to damage the pedia and those who want to stop the damage. It's similar people who are attracted to each side, meaning that the likelihood of blocking either is quite possible. This isn't a CVUA thing, it's a WP thing. Worm(talk) 11:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) They're looking into the banning issue. If I use a different IRC nickname, the ban does not apply. Also, thanks guys for all of your suggestions. You guys probably didn't know about the coordinator elections, which fueled much of the bureaucracy of the project. We've had several issues in the past with our students (4 have been blocked), which is why I asked ItsZippy to become an instructor with us. On behalf of the whole CVUA, I'd like to thank both of you for all of your help. Best, Electric Catfish 11:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC).
Compressing sections in userboxes
Hi Dave. I've seen sections of userboxes compressed in music articles but i was wondering if that can be done in any userbox? I wanted to compress the size and weight guides in the C3 Picasso article infobox. I realize i could just put a minimum and maximum but that would give out less information, which i would like to keep for now. Thanks ツ Jenova20 10:03, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- Poke ツ Jenova20 14:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yikes! I'm sorry, I thought I answered this. I don't think you've seen "userbox" compressed on music articles, userboxen are those things you put on your userpage to let people know a bit about you. I've added some {{hidden top}} and {{hidden bottom}} templates in, is that the sort of thing you're after? Worm(talk) 15:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I meant infobox...I never noticed i put userbox...facepalm. Thanks for sorting it though =D Have a nice friday and weekend! ツ Jenova20 15:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yikes! I'm sorry, I thought I answered this. I don't think you've seen "userbox" compressed on music articles, userboxen are those things you put on your userpage to let people know a bit about you. I've added some {{hidden top}} and {{hidden bottom}} templates in, is that the sort of thing you're after? Worm(talk) 15:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Whack! Boom! Zap!
Our company is currently developing licenced live streaming software for European TV channels in Thailand. I was watching ITV4 a few moments ago for testing and saw a repeat of this deliberately camp 1960s series. Watch one, and see if it rings a bell. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:57, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've always loved the classic Adam West program! There's something that just warms my cockles about the stupidity of the solutions they come up with. One of my favourites was in one of the cowboy episodes (I think "It's The Way You Play The Game") when Batman and Robin are surrounded by gunslingers, Batman throws a gas bomb to the ground and they hide, whilst Shame and his band shoot at them. Robin asks what they're going to do, and Batman points out that there are (something like...) 6 men with 2 guns, each with 6 bullets, so that's 72 bullets... and asks how many Robin's counted... 71... We hear on more shot and then they're up and fighting! Pow!
- There's something to be treasured about the camp 1960s tv programs, until recently, I had a near complete set of The Avengers, though I've cut it down to the Emma Peel episodes. Amazing how much time you can waste on something so nonsensical. Worm(talk) 09:02, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I actually really enjoyed the Avengers, I was about 11 or 12 at the time, but I thought Batman was childish crap (I didn't realise at the time that it was deliberate). But it looks as if you missed the analogy with the Whack! Boom! Zap! :( Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've been wracking my brains and in honesty, nope.. I can't see the analogy. Though I did watch part of one this morning before work, amazing how many dei ex machina can save the dynamic duo. I count 3 in as many minutes. Worm(talk) 13:00, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I actually really enjoyed the Avengers, I was about 11 or 12 at the time, but I thought Batman was childish crap (I didn't realise at the time that it was deliberate). But it looks as if you missed the analogy with the Whack! Boom! Zap! :( Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Where on Misplaced Pages would I ask this?
I've recently found a lot of articles that are being designated as "hate groups" with sourcing to Southern Poverty Law Center. I obviously have a bias, but I am curious as to whether SPLC's equally biased opinion that a group is a "hate group" is enough for the group to be labeled as a hate group in the article. Ryan Vesey 20:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- It'll generate a lot of media attention with many other sources listing all the "hate-group" stuff they've done and making the same accusations each time. But it's gonna be far more neutral to list it as a Southern Poverty Law Centre Hate-group than simply saying Exodus International (example) is a hate-group founded in bla bla bla...
- Thanks ツ Jenova20 23:29, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- Ryan is the timing of this] a coincidence in this instance? Thanks ツ Jenova20 23:33, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, it's a total coincidence. On the topic of attributing it to Southern Poverty Law Center, I still have trouble giving the center credibility by including it's statement in all of the articles. The SPLC doesn't just call groups that are actively out to harm gays hate groups, it calls every group that has ever disagreed with gay marriage a hate group. Westboro Baptist Church is a hate group, the Family Research Council is not. Ryan Vesey 00:16, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- Gut feeling is the Reliable sources noticeboard, but it might need something bigger. The other option is to look at somewhere like a MOS page and start an RfC... I'll have a think. Worm(talk) 08:20, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- The Family Research Council actually is. They publish false facts about LGBT people and lobby congress about it. They go out of their way to harm LGBT and this is why the SPLC list them as a hate-group. Proof 123456. There's a few and they weren't that difficult to find. Thanks ツ Jenova20 08:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I think there's difficulties with the definition of "hate group", publishing false facts is not equivalent to rallying lynch mobs - but I think Ryan was giving an example, rather than a final definition. The question remains, should we accept one law centre opinion as final? Not a question for this talk page really, we need a few more eyes on the matter. Worm(talk) 08:51, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- When multiple sources list it as a hate group without referring to the SPLC then i think we should. And these false facts are being used as a weapon and to lobby congress. They also aanounced they wanted to extradite all LGBT from America at one stage. Now put the shoe on the other foot and that's racist. We're not saying anything but what the sources do, and that's that it is a hate-group with dark intentions in the name of Religion. The SPLC is very notable so in this case again, yes it wouldn't be neutral at all to remove it when so many others are commenting on it and i feel it would be a gross violation of WP:NPOV and censorship. Thanks ツ Jenova20 09:02, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I think there's difficulties with the definition of "hate group", publishing false facts is not equivalent to rallying lynch mobs - but I think Ryan was giving an example, rather than a final definition. The question remains, should we accept one law centre opinion as final? Not a question for this talk page really, we need a few more eyes on the matter. Worm(talk) 08:51, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, it's a total coincidence. On the topic of attributing it to Southern Poverty Law Center, I still have trouble giving the center credibility by including it's statement in all of the articles. The SPLC doesn't just call groups that are actively out to harm gays hate groups, it calls every group that has ever disagreed with gay marriage a hate group. Westboro Baptist Church is a hate group, the Family Research Council is not. Ryan Vesey 00:16, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Plus Ryan used the example of the Westboro Baptist Church being a hate-group, yet this Family Research Council is doing exactly the same thing but on a National scale and with huge financial backing. They're a miniature NARTH. I hope the irony of that wasn't lost ツ Jenova20 09:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- Given the rather apologetic tone of the SPLC when discussing Black Separatist movements http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/black-separatist, it may be worth bringing them up in terms of sourcing (or simply noting that it is the SPLC that lists the FRC as a hate group). I'm not debating the hate or non-hate status of the FRC, just pointing out that SPLC certainly has a bias based in no small part on its roots and original purpose for organizing. I don't have the date in front of me, but I do recall it took them some years to list the Nation of Islam as a hate group (it may have come after some of the events in Jessie Jackson's presidential nomination bid in the 1980s). Just tossing out that in some ways their hate group list can be as controversial as the State Department's terrorist group list. Both have significant "blind spots." Intothatdarkness 16:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Reasons
Well, your RfC has been running awhile, and has generated a lot of comment.
And there's a lot proposed that's beyond (or different than) the simple question of de-adminship. (Which of course is fine.)
But going back to the original question of a community-wide process for de-adminship...
I'd like to see if you and I (and anyone else, I suppose) could list all the reasons for such a process. And also, all the reasons against having such a process.
So far, the reasons against seem to be (summarised/paraphrased):
- We don't trust the community as a group to make such a determination. Arbcom, as our "representatives", should instead solely handle this.
- We fear that admins could become more politically/diplomatically minded, and even mildly unpopular duties will cease to be performed, to the detriment of the project.
- Having the tools is seen (by those holding this view) as important, and the removal is considered a severe punishment.
Are there others you see?
The reasons for the process are numerous, but off the top of my head:
- Having a community de-adminship process to parallel the RFA process will serve to help remove the often negative tone of RfA.
- It will help reinforce the idea that (while use of the tools may be a big deal in certain situations) adding or removing the tools shouldn't be considered as much a fear-related big deal that it currently seems to be.
- It will help reduce the bureaucracy of the WP:DR process, while still not replacing it.
- It will be another way to help the community members to be more directly involved in the project.
And somewhat related to this: If the community can ban an editor, why can't it ask for certain tools to be removed from an editor?
Anyway, that's all off the top of my head after reading through the RfC discussions. I welcome your thoughts. - jc37 01:00, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've intentionally left it alone for the past week or so, so I don't give the impression of steering the discussion too much, I really wanted some clear ideas of where things should go. I'll have a read when I can and see if I can come up with some points. Once we do have them, it's a case of working out how to present the information and what to do with it. Worm(talk) 08:15, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've been a little surprised that it hasn't attracted more attention. People love to talk about the idea, but when it is on the table, the herd thins out a bit. I had hoped for a larger number of people participating, based on the large number of people claiming that a lack of a process will be the death of Misplaced Pages. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- It was one of the reasons I wanted to do a proof of concept RfC. It was always possible that there are that many people who believe it's a necessity, it was the same people saying it over and over. I think there's enough opinion that it's worth taking further as jc37 suggests, but how far it will go, I don't know. Worm(talk) 15:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Has consensus been reached?
Do you think consensus has sufficiently been reached at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Wikify#No more wikify template (and subsequent section) for me to again move forward with the changes? Ryan Vesey 15:47, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I can certainly see where Debresser is coming from, but the majority of editors seem to be for the changes. I'd suggest going ahead an boldly doing them. Or if you're not confident, put up an RfC. Consensus may not have been reached, but I think there's sufficient views that it'd doing the right thing that, well, you might as well go ahead. Start with the TfD, and more eyes might appear on the situation. Worm(talk) 12:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Debresser had already reverted my changes, but I do think that BRD refers to exactly those situations. When it really comes down to it, the way the message went out to everyone in the group, many of them went to the TfD and not to the talk page. The TfD ends up showing a lot of support for the internal change as well. Ryan Vesey 13:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Ah, I hadn't seen the TfD, didn't realise it had started (there's no indication of it on {{wikify}}). See what the outcome is when that's closed. Worm(talk) 13:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Debresser had already reverted my changes, but I do think that BRD refers to exactly those situations. When it really comes down to it, the way the message went out to everyone in the group, many of them went to the TfD and not to the talk page. The TfD ends up showing a lot of support for the internal change as well. Ryan Vesey 13:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
A bowl of strawberries for you!
|
Hello Sir.
My name is arun kumar sharma. I am an INDIAN. I am highly interested in the military and military aviation and i am also very knowledgeable about it. So i want to become an administrator in[REDACTED] to get some essential rights which are required for me to editing and doing some other task. I swear that i will help to increase the reputation of the wikipedia. So sir, please nominate me for adminship and i will provide my 100 % efforts to improve the wikipedia. Thank You Sir. Please eat these strawberries these tastes good. Thank You again Sir. Arun sharma 101 17:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC) |
- Hi Arun. Welcome to wikipedia, it's great to meet you! Thanks so much for the strawberries, a delicacy I always enjoy with a little clotted cream or (if the mood takes me) balsamic vinegar.
- Regarding becoming an administrator on wikipedia, that's a role which isn't given to many editors, which gives them a few extra tools and allows them to - protect pages from editing, block editors and delete pages. Everything else can be done by you already - you will be able to create new pages, edit pretty much every page, take part in discussions and do everything you could possibly want to. I'm really glad to hear you have a good knowledge on the military, we have a wikiproject on the Military which you may well be able to help out at. Why don't you go there and see if there's anything you'd like to do? If you're unsure about anything, please do give me a shout. Worm(talk) 12:31, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hi Arun, have you graduated from adoption? If so you can request a coach here . If not ask Worm or some one to adopt you here . -- RexRowan Talk 18:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Copyright
Dave can you confirm i've uploaded this one properly since it's my first time uploading a phone picture? Thanks ツ Jenova20 19:26, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- My thought is that it is correct for the most part, but it may be necessary to black out the screen in the manner of iPhone and MacBook. That being said Galaxy Nexus uses an image that is not blacked out. If Worm doesn't know, I'm sure he'd tell you to go to WP:MCQ so you might want to go there for a quicker answer. Ryan Vesey 19:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've seen most phone images without a blacked screen. There's about 4 like that just in Android (operating system). I don't see what real difference that makes. I was just a bit unclear what copyright status i should upload a phone under. Thanks Ryan ツ Jenova20 00:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Well, the design of the phone is always going to be under copyright (I believe), so why not upload a press image, which better demonstrates the look of the phone? All the pages you've shown have press images as their primary image, with all the clever touching up they do. As for the copyright status, it looks right to me, but as Ryan says, MCQ is the best place for answers on this. Worm(talk) 12:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've asked MCQ...I'm not the best at this copyright malarkey. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction you two ツ Jenova20 14:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Well, the design of the phone is always going to be under copyright (I believe), so why not upload a press image, which better demonstrates the look of the phone? All the pages you've shown have press images as their primary image, with all the clever touching up they do. As for the copyright status, it looks right to me, but as Ryan says, MCQ is the best place for answers on this. Worm(talk) 12:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I've seen most phone images without a blacked screen. There's about 4 like that just in Android (operating system). I don't see what real difference that makes. I was just a bit unclear what copyright status i should upload a phone under. Thanks Ryan ツ Jenova20 00:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Call for eyes!
Hey talk page stalkers! Could people who have a little time on their hands watchlist So Solid Crew? The list of members (which should be about 30) has got a bit silly this year. I've currently removed it from the article completely, but if anyone wants to help me build it up accurately... please do. Otherwise, any more eyes watching the vandalism would be good. Also, if you fancy a laugh see how it was when I found it. Best vandalism I've ever seen :D Worm(talk) 09:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- That was pretty funny. I've watched the page but i don't know enough about the band to disprove that Captain Birdseye and Super Mario weren't both members...Thanks ツ Jenova20 09:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- I'm just currently updating the pages so that we've got a starting point. Watching it for obvious stupidity is all I'm asking :) Worm(talk) 09:22, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Frosty the Snowman was in the band? Impossible. He obviously would have melted under the hot lights. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Given the number of posthomous members, perhaps he was used to keep them from smelling? Worm(talk) 09:22, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Why is the fact that Boris Johnson was a member of So Solid Crew not in the Boris Johnson article? That seems an important stepping stone to his candidacy as Mayor of London.
- And some of these rapper names are difficult to tell from joke names. Are we entirely sure "Al ballbag" is not a real person? ツ Jenova20 09:37, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps... just perhaps, we should assume that they're all wrong, and build it up with reliable sources? Worm(talk) 09:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- It would be the best option in this situation. I can't tell if 3 quarters are jokes or real rapper names. Notorious BLT being a perfect example. I've heard of Notorious Big but is this a rapper too or a joke? Thanks ツ Jenova20 09:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps... just perhaps, we should assume that they're all wrong, and build it up with reliable sources? Worm(talk) 09:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Given the number of posthomous members, perhaps he was used to keep them from smelling? Worm(talk) 09:22, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Dave, just an idea but why not use the Members section for Previous members only and leave the current ones in the infobox. There's less names that way and no duplication. Plus it makes it easier to keep an eye on. Eh? Thanks ツ Jenova20 10:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Thought it was worth leaving them in the previous members section because they were notable enough to have their own articles... Agreed it's harder to keep an eye on, but I think it's a reasonable amount of information to keep there. Worm(talk) 10:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Fair enough, but the information in that section doesn't sync up with the infobox...There's a past members section in the infobox which will be very bloated if you use it. ツ Jenova20 10:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- The only past members I've put in the infobox are blue links. If I've missed any blue links in the infobox... feel free to add them. Worm(talk) 10:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- Fair enough, but the information in that section doesn't sync up with the infobox...There's a past members section in the infobox which will be very bloated if you use it. ツ Jenova20 10:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Not so implausible redirect
I rarely nominate redirects for deletion, (redirects are cheap) but I was almost convinced to nominate HEYYEYAAEYAAAEYAEYAA for deletion when I noticed it's been hit 700 times in 90 days. Not so implausible after all I guess. Ryan Vesey 16:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
- See http://heyyeyaaeyaaaeyaeyaa.com/ for an explanation. Worm(talk) 16:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
|
The Barnstar of Diplomacy |
| I have been silently watching WP:CVUA for a while now and wanted to recognize the excellent advisory work that you have done there, especially in the context of reformatting user roles. That is a project that currently suffers from a lack of credibility. I think you have gone a long way to put them on the right track toward establishing that credibility. Trusilver 20:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC) |
Admin needed
Could you or another uninvolved admin chime in here here, and here and and here and review the evidence. I asked on that page for an admin to review it on that page, and at AN where it appears to have been archived without response. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:36, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Userbox
Hi Worm and friends, would you like to display a userbox that I designed to support the WWC?
 | This user is a gentleman who supports his female allies. |
Much appreciated! :D -- RexRowan Talk 07:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for this! Ryan Vesey 19:58, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
Registration at Teahouse
You provide me a link for the Teahouse yesterday.Thank You for this.I am very glad for join Teahouse.But I don't know how to register or Join the Teahouse. So please guide me about it and also tell me how me find a coach.
Hey
I just wanted to let you know I am returning to Misplaced Pages as a negotiator not a full time editor. It was brought to my attention that people on here maybe out to get me and it seems to look like it as every time I return someone wants to start some drama with me that day. I personally think I'd do better as a negotiator on here then an editor. ^_^ Swifty* 18:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
- Is that kind of like this administrator, who is an interlocutor, and has a license to prove it? Or more like The Negotiator or The Negotiator (novel)? I think that editing Misplaced Pages is an important part of participating as an editor. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:49, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
- I assume he means something like working with dispute resolution or mediation. He would be facilitating content creation. Having excellent mediators can be very important. Ryan Vesey 14:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
- That's true, but I'm really not sure how valid this idea is. There are plenty of places one can edit content without getting into drama. If one can't edit content, even non-controversial content, at all without getting into levels of drama that one can't cope with, then sometimes one needs to look at why that might be, and fixing it. Choosing instead to insert oneself into other people's existing drama may not be a better option.
- Then again, who knows, maybe it will work well? Some people only pick things they really care about to edit content on, therefore quickly become dramatic if there are challenges - but if faced with mediating a dispute they neither know nor care about, might find it easier to remain calm. That's the optimistic (naive?) way of viewing it :) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:32, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Query about using references for article
- Can I use following reference in my first article Lottery_(short_story)
"http://books.google.co.in/books?id=ZLXvBlLbAEcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false"
This link tells about the author, publisher of the book but it is in the google books.
If not than why ? because I have try so much but there are no very much information and reference about this hindi(India related) articles on the Internet.I read this story and I also have a pdf file of it.But there are lack of appropriate references for this article on the Internet. Can you help me ?--Arun sharma 101 (talk) 13:36, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Question on AGF
Without blowing things out of proportion...it's a personal attack to call someone a troll right? Also I wanted to know if your knowledge of tables extends to colouring in sections and how i do that? Thanks ツ Jenova20 15:39, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
- It is. In fact, he should have stopped at red herring and ad hominem, adding "with a slice of troll" didn't improve his argument and turned his own response into an ad hominem. Just to be clear, he was referring to StillStanding (recent name change) not to you. As far as the tables are concerned, Worm will have to help you, but you might want to copy code from some of the tables at Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Tables. Ryan Vesey 00:03, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Reviewer
Hi Dave!
I was wondering if you would allow me to request the reviewer userright to participate in the Article Feedback Tool Version 5 program. I helped with the development stage of the article feedback tool, and was sent a t-shirt for doing so. Without being a reviewer, I can't request oversight or hide Article Feedback Tool feedback. Per this.
Thanks! Thine Antique Pen (talk) 11:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- Hi TAP. I've got to say, the "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt" argument doesn't really hold too much water, I've been sent a fair amount of free stuff from the foundation for helping out in the past! However, I do believe that the reviewer right is a reasonable one for you, as you have indicated that you intend to help out at AFTv5. Consider this message an agreement that you can request the "Reviewer" right. Worm(talk) 11:30, 21 August 2012 (UTC)