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Archives

April 2005–June 2012

Why we ever did otherwise

Hi, I caught your comment at Talk:Paul Remy. It is beyond me too, but I think after several months of being sucked into this (following seeing unpleasant treatment of East European and Spanish editors on a tennis RM I admit) are various clarity issues in the guideline pages such as WP:AT. In WP:UE for example the lack of coherent linkage (even a bluelink) between reliable and where reliable is defined as "reliable for the statement made." I won't repeat this ad nauseam, I've just restated for the nth time at Talk:Edouard Deldevez. In one way it doesn't matter if the guideline pages like WP:UE WP:EN are kept ambiguous and contradict the 100,000s of Europe articles on en.wikipedia, since most editors who contribute these articles use sources "reliable for the statement made" in terms of spelling anyway with or without guidelines they either don't know exist or interpret using common sense. But clarity in those guidelines might be a way of passing the remaining 100 "English name" bios to consistency with less aggrevation. An idea anyway. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:56, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for nudging Talk:Stéphane Charbonneau into close. That only leaves Talk:Dominik Halmosi I believe. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:09, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I really like how User:Mr.Boire put it at the end of that one. It's a shame there's not a great policy way of phrasing this, but most usage without diacritics is either due to (1) dumbing down; (2) typographical limitations; or (3) ignorance. Native forms of names are preferable unless the subject voluntarily anglicizes it (officially or through common usage) or there's deep-seated practice for historical figures (e.g., Christopher Columbus). Once the request at Talk:Eduardo Barragan is wrapped up, I think we can safely proceed with a second request of Halmosi. Take that, WP:systemic bias! --BDD (talk) 03:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes I thought Mr Boire said it quite well. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Re:Your name

Nothing to convoluted, DUCKISJAMMMY is just a combination of my nicknames & initials & DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER my alternative account rather random sounding I know was thought up by The Bushranger when advising me on second accounts. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 04:28, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Mentorship

I request that you consider serving as my mentor, since it may help alleviate other users' concerns about my editing, and you have been a source of useful advice on how to collaborate productively. It may be a route to resolving the situation I told you about in the email. Thanks, Leucosticte (talk) 05:38, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

My response. I appreciate this. Leucosticte (talk) 07:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't recall having any other accounts besides this one open at this time. All the old ones have been indef-blocked. I opened this account circa June 12, after a 21-month complete absence from Misplaced Pages. Most of my problems on Misplaced Pages have centered around XfDs. Therefore, what I propose is that I list the XfDs in which I'm participating in this page, User:Leucosticte/Deletion debates, which you can add to your watchlist. Then you can check on how those are going and offer suggestions. If after awhile you get the impression that I don't further mentoring in that area, you can let me know and I'll quit posting the deletion debates to that page.

It may be that I've changed enough that I won't need a whole lot of suggestions, although obviously in the last AfD some people didn't think my style was ideal. I think what happens is that sometimes young people will be very idealistic and want to cause a lot of change. Then what is euphemistically called "patience" and dysphemistically called "despair" sets in. One realizes that raging against the system won't help, but there some productive tasks that can be accomplished within the system. And sometimes creative avenues can be found for figuring out solutions that everyone is okay with. That's pretty much at the point I'm at now — working on some innovations and meanwhile contributing within the system we have now, while trying not to cause too much trouble, even though I disagree with a lot of people. Sometimes I rile people up more than I anticipated, although I admit to having done it purposefully in the past.

One of my concerns is that if I am allowed to edit again, it will very easy for me to get kicked off again if, say, someone reports me to WP:ANI for something they perceive as a bad edit. A lot of times, people don't scrutinize the facts very carefully in those forums, and people can get blocked based on mistaken facts or mistaken interpretations of the facts. This is especially true if, as in my case, the accused has a history of getting blocked. The risk is also elevated by the fact that I edit articles on some controversial subjects about which a lot of editors may have agendas. Sometimes people will try to get rid of an inconvenient editor by saying "Look, he's agenda-pushing" or "He's being disruptive" or "He's being uncivil." I'm not saying every such allegation is unfounded, and indeed there have been times I was blatantly guilty, although I'm going to try not to be in the future. But there are also times when allegations are untrue or exaggerated, and people get blocked without good reason.

If you are my mentor, perhaps if I'm being unfairly accused, you can help by pointing out the facts as you know them from your involvement with me and your familiarity with my editing patterns. And maybe you can suggest to me more effective ways of communicating and editing that are less likely to get on people's nerves and arouse objections. Despite my having a lot of experience on Misplaced Pages, there is always more to learn about editing better, applying policy better and working better with other editors. My goal is to succeed as a Wikipedian by making the best contribution I can to the project.

Actually, 99% of what I do on Misplaced Pages, no one seems to take issue with. That could be because I'm doing all right, or because not much attention is paid. In any case, you are free to withdraw from the mentorship relationship at any time if you feel it's not working, but I hope it will. All right, we'll talk later. Leucosticte (talk) 07:50, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I've created a page at User:BDD/Mentorship/Leucosticte dedicated to this mentorship. I've got a couple of broad questions for you to answer there. Full --~~~~ signatures shouldn't be necessary there, but you'll see I'm using a simple signature just to make the conversations more readable. We'll keep our user talk pages clear and use that page for all matters regarding the mentorship—except for "field work," of course. And the talk page will be for general discussion related to the mentorship. Sound good? I'll address some of your points over there. I'm looking forward to this. --BDD (talk) 22:12, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

• Thank you for your willingness to mentor Leucosticte, and the efforts you have put in so far. The Arbitration Committee, however, have become aware that Leucosticte is a returned banned user, and he has been blocked. Any appeals against this block must be made by Leucosticte directly to the Committee by email. SilkTork 20:40, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

RE: Catholic diocese map

Userfication of AFD articles

Hi. I answered your question at WT:Userfication#Userfication of AFD articles. I hope my tone isn't too curt – I wanted to cover everything for future readers. I saw that you've been working on the WP:WikiProject Merge backlog. Your edit summaries and {{Copied}}s look good. Flatscan (talk) 04:24, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

your IP Law Leaders feedback

Thank you very much for your comment regarding "keep" or "delete" in reference to IP Law Leaders. Your explanation was very clear and understandable. Warmest Regards, Chtousi (talk) 01:49, 11 July 2012 (UTC)chtousi

List of Tea Party politicians

Hi! Kudos for your effort in cleaning up the List of Tea Party politicians. That's quite an undertaking. In the AFD, you noted that you also cleaned up the reference formatting. Might I suggest a different citation style for ease of future editting? The current style which is the one I would also normally choose places the full citation in-line with the content. When used with tables which have a bit of awkward syntax, it makes finding and editting rows difficult because of the large amount of citation text with "|" all over the place. Perhaps using the Harvard citation templates might reduce the in-line clutter by moving the full citation into an entry in the references section. -- Whpq (talk) 16:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Gold Standard 19:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

!!

1) Thanks for supporting the Lamia move. I'm glad people are finally seeing reason. But of course you supported the move; it's clear you're a fine, upstanding gentleman, because...

2) W&M! Woo, tribe pride!

96.231.223.206 (talk) 04:51, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for John Daly (soccer coach)

On 26 July 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article John Daly (soccer coach), which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that William & Mary women's soccer, coached by John Daly, is one of two NCAA Division I women's soccer programs that have never had a losing season? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/John Daly (soccer coach). You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:04, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:RT (TV network)

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Punjabi politics

--Soman (talk) 05:07, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

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GOCE July 2012 drive barnstars!

		Copy Editor's Barnstar
		For cranking out more than 40,000 words in the July 2012 drive, I present you with the official GOCE Award. Thanks for your efforts! —Torchiest edits 02:13, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

		Leaderboard Award—4th Place, Oldest Articles
		For copy editing 21 of the oldest articles in the July 2012 drive, here is the GOCE Silver Star Award. Way to go! —Torchiest edits 02:13, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Refusal to serve in the Israeli military

Youre rigt, I put something on the talk page instead.Lihaas (talk) 01:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Aerospace1

Hi, BDD. Good to meet you! In all my years on Misplaced Pages I never saw someone create an account for the first time and move directly to the move request area and stay there only. No one even knows that such thing as move requests exist when they first appear on Misplaced Pages. And when you check Aerospace1's log history you can clearly see that something is very wrong. Thanks for the tip. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 21:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

It does seem like sockpuppet behavior, but I don't see a pattern or any evidence of disruption so far. It's not an everyday occurrence, but I've seen similar new accounts, though they usually stalk AfD more often than RM. {{spa}} will help closing admins give appropriate weight to the votes (close to 0), but at this point, the user is mostly harmless. --BDD (talk) 22:15, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

re:citation style

Sorry about this. On Chinese[REDACTED] this template is for articles that have an inappropriate citation style; I thought that it's the same here on enwiki. I've changed it to {{Cleanup-link rot}}.--Jsjsjs1111 (talk) 08:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

RM

Hey, nice to see someone else put in a RM ;). At some future point, if you have time, I'd like to see Talk:Stephane Huet x5 be reopened. But up to you, cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:20, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'm surprised that move failed just a few months ago. Consensus has definitely changed since then. --BDD (talk) 14:43, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Well it was 8 to 5, but yes I suppose the WP:tennisnames RfC consensus didn't carry to the RM corner. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:35, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Frasier Crane

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Disambiguation link notification for August 19

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Please comment on Talk:Encyclopedia Dramatica

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Speedy deletion declined: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bubb Rubb 2nd nomination

Hello BDD. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bubb Rubb 2nd nomination, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: The page is five years old, and deletion might break links from outside Misplaced Pages. Consider sending this to WP:RFD if you still think it should be deleted. Thank you. — Mr. Stradivarius 19:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Montréal Québec Temple

You do realize that your vote is based on a series of faulty other-stuff-exists arguments, right? Just because the Salt Lake Temple is notable doesn't make the Montreal Temple notable; just because the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels is notable doesn't make the Montreal Temple notable. You have to consider the articles on their individual merits. And in this case, those three temples, and a number of other temples which have already been merged or will be AfDed in the future, are unsourced and fail the BEFORE test pbp 04:34, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

In essence, what your saying is some made-up-no-consensus-for-it-ever idea that all LDS temples are notable trumps GNG. That is why I am so upset at your argument, because that's completely ridiculous. Notability is determined by sources. These articles are unsourced, failed the BEFORE test, and neither you nor Oakshade have found any sources pbp 23:10, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

How do you think policies like inherent notability get applied to subjects? Do you think it applies to high schools because they all have oodles of sources, so obviously ever high school meets GNG? That's at least as silly as my argument. It's about deletion outcomes. If enough people agree with me (probably over multiple nominations), we'll call it inherent notability. If they don't, I'll just look like a fool. You don't have to agree with me, but if you don't, I'd humbly suggest ignoring me is the best course of action. --BDD (talk) 23:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

talkback

GOCE news and September drive invitation

Invitation from the Guild of Copy Editors The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in its events: The August 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is currently in the submissions stage. Submit your best August copy edit there before the end of the month. Submissions end, and discussion and voting begin, on September 1 at 00:00 (UTC). September 2012 Backlog elimination drive is a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy edit backlog. The drive begins on September 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and ends on September 30 at 23:59 (UTC). Our goals are to copy edit the articles tagged longest ago and to complete all requests placed before the end of August. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who copy edits at least one article, and special awards will be given to the top six in the following categories: "Number of articles", "Number of words", "Number of articles of over 5,000 words", "Number of articles tagged longest ago", and "Longest article". This drive features a much easier signup process. We hope to see you there! – Your drive coordinators: Stfg, Allens, and Torchiest. >>> Sign up now <<< To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 18:43, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups

Did my removal of the clause about Internet groups clear up the opening sentence enough? I wasn't sure if i followed all the items you had listed. Insomesia (talk) 00:58, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I think so. Were we (or are we) excluding groups "that appear to exist only on the Internet," or is the SPLC doing that? --BDD (talk) 01:01, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what that was about and it seems unlikely to survive a lot of clarification. As for the SPLC hate is hate, and most groups have an online presence. I recall a big trend being that groups could export music, videos and propaganda directly to the homes of recruits and not have to even organize a rally. This can all be done without national borders so even municipalities that outlaw certain expressions might not have the reach to stop online expressions of hate. The clause raised more questions than it clarified as far as I can tell. Insomesia (talk) 01:34, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's a clearer article without it. As long as none of us are making arbitrary judgments about which SPLC-designated groups should be included or not, the underlying issue is fine. --BDD (talk) 02:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

IIO

This user continuously shops his grievances against me to various admins and in various forums. Judging from his many kilobytes of output, it is a project that he devotes hours to every day. The complaints are mostly about page moves that I made last year. The only reason he knows about these moves is because he researches my edit history obsessively. This has been going on for almost two months now. Kauffner (talk) 17:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Is it just the Vietnamese foods or does it go broader? I suppose it's difficult for a third party to notice these things. --BDD (talk) 18:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I have been actively editing Vietnam-related articles for several years. IIO's original grievance against me related to Eastern European diacritics. He developed an interest in Vietnam toward the end of June, apparently as a way of getting back at me for not "recognizing" Eastern Europeans. This RfC gives you an of idea of his tactics, and how his digs through my edit history to create trouble me. He is trying to move all the Vietnam-related titles to Vietnamese-language spellings, not just food. The complaints against me have already been dealt with at ANI. But IIO continues to shop them around, and even found an admin willing to block me at one point. Kauffner (talk) 02:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)