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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by The Rambling Man (talk | contribs) at 20:42, 8 October 2012 (→Liefting: d). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This user has been on Misplaced Pages for 21 years, 2 months and 14 days.

This user is an administrator on the English Misplaced Pages.

contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves)

JD This user has a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree.

BFA This user has a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree.

en This user is a native speaker of English.

This user is a participant in WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases.

[REDACTED] This user is a member of the Comics Wikiproject.

This user thinks okapis are the coolest animal ever.

Archives

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Photo usage

Hi, I've been working on a small game built around animal quizzes and I wanted to let you know I've used one of your pictures.

I found your picture here: http://en.wikipedia.org/File:Red_Brocket_Deer_in_Barbados_10.jpg

And I attributed the picture like this: Postdlf from w with this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Postdlf and also added a link to the license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en

I hope you're happy with it, please let me know if this is not the case. You can find the game here: http://apps.facebook.com/animalalbum Or through here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/AnimalAlbum/156339584490672

Kind regards, Garfunkel Jansen (talk) 20:54, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Thanks for taking the picture and making it available.

A7-deleted article with references

I'm not going to get involved in the VP discussion, but I noticed that you asked for an example: Arthur Sanderson & Sons, an article small stub I wrote about an 150-year old firm that is quite possibly the UK's best known manufacturer of wallpaper and fabrics, got speedy deleted as "not indicat the importance or significance of the subject" despite having the same reference to Grove/Oxford Art Online it has now. (I reposted my off-line sketch after the deletion.) At the time I had ordered a recently published book on Sanderson & Sons but was too pissed off to actually do any further work on the article after the book arrived.

It was, or should have been, obvious that this was not an article eligible for A7 deletion. I think admins making mistakes like this should have the good sense to undelete and apologize. I can only imagine how I would have reacted if this had been my first article. --Hegvald (talk) 19:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I'd agree that was a mistake, and a rather blatant one in my opinion. Even without the reference, I personally would not speedy delete an article about a company that has been operating for that long, but being the subject of an article in Grove Art Online alone should have precluded speedy deletion to anyone paying attention. postdlf (talk) 19:35, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY?

Why would my habit become bureaucratic, as you said in WP:VPP? There's nothing bureaucratic about my posts, is there? I mean, I wanted to resolve this in article talk pages, but I can't because "Fry (Futurama)" is best preferred by consensus and proposing a revert is disruptive. In other words, There's nothing I can do? --George Ho (talk) 18:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Other than disagreeing with the outcome of the move discussion at Talk:Fry (Futurama)#Rename, what new thoughts do you have to add to the issue? WP:CONSENSUS is policy, and as WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY explains, rules are not an end in and of themselves. You seem to be unable to handle that inconsistency is an inevitable feature of Misplaced Pages (and many would say, a desirable feature) that many content issues will be resolved one way for one article and a different way for another article. Instead, you seem to be in search of rules to govern many specific outcomes, just to tell you what the end result should be, when you don't understand or don't agree with what editor consensus has arrived at in a given instance.

To put it another way, your problem seems to be that many of the rules that do exist are not mechanical, but instead call for editors to apply broader principles on a case-by-case basis. Your recent posts regarding non-free images in particular suggest that you are having difficulty understanding nuances that are embodied in policy itself, thinking these are inconsistencies and seemingly wanting broader, more simple rules to dictate outcomes even where there are clear reasons for different treatments that policy and guidelines themselves dictate.

Does it bother you, for example, that Bill Clinton's article title does not give his middle initial, while George W. Bush's does? This is the kind of "inconsistency" complaint you've been raising, in complaining that there is Fry (Futurama) but Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, which is apparently intolerable in your view. WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRECISION both provide meta rules that are often to be balanced against each other, such that different articles will inevitably be titled according to different rules (full name, nickname, name with parenthetical) based on what editors believe is most common and clear for that particular article. And the way this rule works is editors discuss it and come to a conclusion for each article, such that there might be "inconsistency" between articles within a broad subject group. There is no reason to expect all outcomes to be the same. postdlf (talk) 17:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't get it; if inconsistencies continue, would they strengthen or weaken Misplaced Pages, especially in general? By the way, I give up working on the proposal for naming a fictional character because WP:Article titles is adequate. Given recent messages about administrators and less-than-welcoming atmosphere, I was hoping that policies may change based on conversations, as not everyone knows the growing (and dying) rules. I do follow rules literally and interpretly, but I was inspired to improve rather than destruct. If destruction is not the way, then why am I feeling reluctant to improve some things, like List of Codename: Kids Next Door episodes? Am I incompetent to you? --George Ho (talk) 07:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

As for the images, like cast photos, I've given up on proposing changes of image guidelines and too tired to disobey them. Therefore, I must obey while I must competently discuss them with others. I can't force others to obey policies because not everyone, as I said, reads the rules. As for titling, fiction and non-fiction are not the same. Bill and George thing... how is it almost similar to Fry and Apu thing? --George Ho (talk) 08:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I think you're not a very careful reader, and you often seem to miss the point as a consequence, and to post "replies" that raise comments and questions that are already addressed by what you are replying to. The article titling comparison has absolutely nothing to do with fiction and non-fiction, as the same range of different titles (full name, nickname, short name, name with parenthetical disambiguator) exist on articles about real people as on articles about fictional characters. postdlf (talk) 15:54, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

If inconsistencies continue further, when is the right time to address them and propose change to policies and guidelines? So far, we have someone address contradictions between Writing about fiction guideline and no original research policy. If that's not inconsistent, what do you call it?

What exactly is the inconsistency you're talking about now? postdlf (talk) 18:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Billions of kinds, such as case-by-case move consensus, Twitter accounts, and broadly writing about plots. --George Ho (talk) 18:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, the encyclopedia anyone can edit. postdlf (talk) 22:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Flip book

That one looked a lot better than their usual spammy offerings, I actually left it alone when I saw it, and was thinking that an explanation on the talkpage or at least an edit summary would have been appropriate. Penyulap ☏ 23:47, 17 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Oh, there is Flip page which would be a good include on your watchlist if you use such a list. Penyulap ☏ 23:48, 17 Jul 2012 (UTC)

FYI

this pretty obvious I think this article should be Speedy G5.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 16:22, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree that they are likely the same user, but WP:CSD#G5 is only for content created by users who have already been blocked or banned, created in violation of that ban. It is not for content created by users who are later banned. So unless you can establish that the Mahdi account is itself a sock of a previously banned editor, it won't apply here. postdlf (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Well adding large chunks of text with fairly good wiki markup and creating controversial articles in WP:ARBPIA area is not exactly usual behavior of new users but lets wait for CU.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 16:50, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

This clearly disruptive --Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 17:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Category:Deist thinkers

Category:Deist thinkers, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:33, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

The redirect

I realised that you seem to have reset the redirect for 'The Helping Hand' to Hamburger Helper instead of the halfway house with the same name (which I have put up due to a recent newsreport as you can see from my archive).

It's been some time since I have edited[REDACTED] pages but shouldn't relevance take precedence over history? This means that 'the helping hand' should rightly lead to the page that describes the phrase itself.

Looking forward to your response.

sithvincent

Sithvincent (talk) 17:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

A redirect should go to the article most readers are looking for. It's not even clear to me that the halfway house passes WP:GNG, let alone has greater public awareness than a major commercial brand. The note at the top of the Hamburger Helper article deals with it anyway; that's why that kind of note exists. postdlf (talk) 17:46, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Even better, I'll just redirect The Helping Hand to the disambiguation page at Helping Hand. postdlf (talk) 17:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree. I think it would be much more systematic overall as well.

Sithvincent (talk) 17:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Dhoom Machaao Dhoom episodes

Hi, Postdlf, I just wanted to point you to my talk page where discussion with the user is ongoing.—S Marshall T/C 20:00, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with everything you said there. I'm also having a somewhat similar discussion with another editor; check my recent contribs if you're interested. postdlf (talk) 22:26, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Statυs (talk) 00:34, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate you taking care of that. Too many people just dig in their heels when their posts are criticized for being incomplete or insufficient. postdlf (talk) 01:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Clarification

Hi Postdlf. Just to clarify, was your latest comment at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2006 Australian network television schedule (2nd nomination) in response to my comments, or The-Pope's, or both? (I wasn't sure due to it being indented under The-Pope's comment). I thought it was easier to ask this here rather than clutter up the AfD page. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 05:41, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

The indentation should have made it clear, but "Unsourced ≠ unsourceable..." was a reply to you. "Setting aside your cleanup issues..." was a reply to The-Pope, as he seemed to suggest issues along those I have questioned him on. But you can of course try to answer the questions I raised, something that would give me a reason not to treat these schedules the same way we would U.S. network schedules. postdlf (talk) 05:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for clarifying that. DH85868993 (talk) 05:59, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Category:United States Customs Court judges

Category:United States Customs Court judges, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Safiel (talk) 17:07, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism to Continental Congress

We have an IP who is trying to insert a fake quote. The quote is found nowhere on the internet or in any RS. It is not written in 18th century language and does not reflect the views of Franklin Adams or the Continental Congress. The quote is a heavy dose of POV. Rjensen (talk) 23:52, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I trust you on that. My last rollback of your edit was just a fat-fingered mobile browsing accident, which is why I reverted my reversion right away. postdlf (talk) 23:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

it must be hard to edit on a phone. Rjensen (talk) 01:09, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

iPad, so a little easier. Just not the first time I've accidentally hit a rollback link while trying to click on something else in my watchlist. postdlf (talk) 01:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

On this matter I just got a harrassing post from 24.170.192.254 on my talk page. What should I do about it? : "I cited links, I gave you notes, I even gave you relevant page numbers as well as direct link to the Library of Congress' own archive. What is your agenda here? It's really beginning to become more of a personal attack instead of being a nuisance. Do you intend to erase this every day where I have made the proper correction...or will you do you homework on this precise historical account and offer me a much deserved apology? I'm putting my money on the former. Furthermore, why have you not responded the the Misplaced Pages staff's request for an explanation? I saw it in your "talk" section prior to your deletion of my information, but I did not see the reply from you. What gives?

Gotta' run for the moment, but I've enlisted a few of my friends in continually repairing the information on this page that you've omitted. Feel free to condescend them and mock history. It's nothing personal on my end, therefore I feel it a duty to continue this concerted effort to salvage the dignity that you've cost this historical record. Hate to be a pain in the butt, but history bows to no one." Rjensen (talk) 01:28, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Is the editor just lying about providing a source? Is there a diff? An ANI or vandal report post may be in order. I have a newborn so I'm not getting too involved in anything more than sporadic edits and AFDs these days. postdlf (talk) 17:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

yeah he's lying--his "source" is the entire Library of Congress online exhibit of tens of thousands of pages (none of which include the quote). Take care of the baby and I'll worry about this little nuisance :) Rjensen (talk) 00:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, sorry to bother you but he's back (24.170.192.254 that is, with a nasty attack on me on my talk page) -- can you put a protection on Continental Congress Thanks Rjensen (talk) 01:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Zahm Hall deletion

Hello, I was wondering what it would take to get a review of the deletion of the Zahm Hall page on 03/30/11. I know that it was deleted because it did not meet notability requirements, but a number of events that have transpired over the last year and a half lead me to believe that it now meets said requirements. How does the process of reinstating the page begin? Thanks! Farnk20 (talk) 21:27, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Please list the new reliable sources that give significant coverage of Zahm Hall, so as to demonstrate its notability. postdlf (talk) 21:34, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

In this issue:

• Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
• Research: The most recent DR data
• Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
• Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
• DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
• Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
• Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 19:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Hi postdlf, Thank you for your contributions to the Afd discussion on List of planning journals. Much appreciated... DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:54, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

WP: Articles for deletion/One-based numeration

You may soundly describe it as a "disruptive editing" and "edit warring", but I did not notice a single WP:vandalism edit. Why most sysops prefer drop-down menus to verbal explanations? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 15:36, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Because most of the time it's a close enough fit that at least gets the point across, and we all balance our volunteering here with real world demands so often "close enough" is all we have time for. postdlf (talk) 17:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I got your answer, I do not agree with, but I'll not further discuss the matter. I made certain conclusions for myself. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 19:23, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Aleph One redirect

Hi there. Back in 2011, you carried out the decision to delete the article on Aleph One (game engine) and replace it with a redirect to Marathon 2: Durandal. The editor who suggested that redirect was not aware that a much better explanation of Aleph One is on the main page for the game series, Marathon Trilogy. Ideally the redirect would specifically go to Marathon trilogy#Modern developments (2000–Present). However, the Aleph One redirect page is protected, so I cannot make this change. Is there anything you can do to help? Considering how many pages link to the Aleph One page, I think it's important to have it redirect to the best possible place. --Iritscen (talk) 15:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look at it. Has this been discussed with any other regular editors on this topic, such as the talk pages of either the current or prospective redirect target? postdlf (talk) 22:09, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Not really. The issue was originally pointed out by another user (as seen on the Marathon 2 talk page), then I simply traced the edit back to you. Do you feel this warrants a discussion? Because it seems to me that, as long as there is no page devoted to the engine, the best explanation of the engine will always be at the section link I gave above (which hasn't changed since June 2010). Alternately, perhaps you could simply release the redirect page from protection, so we can make sure it can be updated in the future if/when needed. I'm not sure if this is asking too much, as I'm not sure why the page is protected to begin with (I'm not that familiar with WP policies). --Iritscen (talk) 15:48, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Me! :)

This is liable to be long, and please forgive me in advance for being so verbose. I beg of you that if you expect to take a tl;dr approach to this posting, that you refrain from commenting on me in the future.

I am writing in response to this comment you made which I saw while responding to the recent dust-up regarding Alan Liefting's edits.

First, I would like to make it clear that while I have engaged in many discussions regarding the behavior of specific editors, I am not nor have I ever been on anyone's side. If there is an appearance of being so, it is purely coincidental to the larger issues I have been addressing for quite some time now. Whether it be Delta, Rich Farmbrough, EncycloPetey, CartoonDiablo, Alan Liefting or whomever, my approach has been in regards to the methods used in such cases rather than any apparent defense of a particular editor. As many people do, I watch WP:AN, WP:AN/I and Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case, and various other areas where disputes are highlighted. That is how I come to these cases. I have no friends here. I have never wanted friends. I believe it to be anathema to a conducive editing environment here. If I perceive someone to be a 'friend', my actions may be affected by that perception in a way that may be less than exceptional towards the ultimate goals of this project.

I have seen a number of disputes where the most popular means to end the disputes is to aggressively go after a single editor as the source of disruption, as the key component that if it is removed will halt the dispute. See the sixth paragraph here (perm). Yet, in all these cases I have seen ways in which the dispute could be addressed by other means. Take the Rich Farmbrough case as an example. A significant part of the blow up in the case was over the definition of "automation". This had arisen before in the Delta case some half a year before. ArbCom badly tripped over the definition of automation, and then badly tripped over it again in the RF case. ArbCom could have chosen to arrive at an abstract definition of 'automation' for use in cases but has not done so. As a result, they will make the same mistake in the future. There is no corrective mechanism in place for ArbCom to address such failures. The victims in these cases are real people.

As evinced in these in many similar cases, there is a mob mentality approach. One editor under heavy scrutiny has little or no chance to be exonerated of wrongdoing once the mob approach is being used. This is not to say that I think there is any particular intent or cabal or anything the like. I simply mean that this is human nature. Here I am reminded of the Lynching of Jesse Washington, a recently FA featured on the main page. I am not attempting to invoke an emotional response to my statement here, but please read that article (especially the 'Trial and lynching' section). Look at this image. Whether someone thinks this lynching is wrong or not is immaterial. The masses of the people prevent the introduction of any thought that this is wrong. If one person was brave enough to walk up to that tree and declare what the mob was doing was absolutely disgusting, what do you suppose would happen to them? The same thing happens on Misplaced Pages over and over again. The people who raise objection to this are, just as you would expect in the real-life lynching, rejected out of hand and criticized for their actions. I do not mean to claim that anyone is guilt free. Certainly in all the cases I noted in the third paragraph above the noted people had a part in creating the dispute. The point here is the means of solving disputes frequently used here are highly objectionable.

My criticism is not isolated. I have observed a shift in the general atmosphere on Misplaced Pages. I believe that dispute resolution is chiefly responsible for this shift. Sure, people have been complaining to noticeboards since the dawn of wiki-time. I don't mean to claim any rose-colored view of the past. Rather, that dispute resolution has become decidedly nasty over the last few years. The civility policy goes unenforced and is a farce. It will be interesting to watch to see if Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Civility enforcement has any effect. I seriously doubt it will.

I have been highly critical of ArbCom over the last year. They are of course part of the DR process. Their attitudes and approach to dispute resolution are much akin to the lynching I noted above. If you come before ArbCom, and ten people say you're wrong and you're the only voice saying you're right, you are doomed. ArbCom has no oversight. There is no method to appeal. They claim you can appeal to Jimbo, but so far as I'm aware no appeal has ever succeeded. In practice, such a path does not exist. It has gotten so bad that if a person approaches the Foundation, ArbCom sanctions them for taking such action. They are above reproach. I could go on for a while about their abject failures if you would like. I find it interesting that of the people currently sitting on ArbCom none of them but one have any professional experience of any kind with regards to arbitration. Further, when I raised the issue of providing training for ArbCom, I was heartily shot down (even though prior arbitrators had thought this might be a good idea). I recognize that the response to the suggestion was likely motivated by negative opinions of me. Yet, that further proves the point of ArbCom incompetence.

I have been highly critical of the Foundation. As evinced here and here, the Foundation has demonstrated gross incompetence. These are not isolated incidents either. I have witnessed several other occasions where they have demonstrated this, and am aware of multiple serious problems plaguing the Foundation.

I hope with this that you will see a pattern of sorts in regards to my abstract stance. I am seeing failures in a number of areas and addressing them, in part as a larger picture. The project is failing. That's not to say I believe the sky is falling. Rather, there is an opportunity to move ahead in directions which ensure the long term viability of the project. The incompetence of the DR process, of ArbCom, of the Foundation itself are major obstacles to overcome. So, if I've 'made a career' of anything, it isn't to defend the underdogs here. In fact, rather far from it. It is to highlight the serious problems plaguing the project.

Thanks for listening, --Hammersoft (talk) 15:11, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Liefting

Hey Postdlf. Thanks for your note. I have now been amazed by the fact that Hammersoft has not only defended Liefting for his behaviour to new editors, but now is content to maintain a whole series of erroneous posts about me allegedly "reverting" posts etc. I'm glad you gave me an insight into Hammersoft's background, I'll just have to move on, but it's a shame I gave Hammersoft the opportunity to remove all the lies and false allegations they posted against me, and yet Hammersoft refused to do so quoting "DISENGAGE". Amazing that an experienced editor would allow a whole series of lies to persist and then glibly quote DISENGAGE as a defence to leave them there. Certainly taught me a thing or two.... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)