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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Toccata quarta (talk | contribs) at 07:57, 28 December 2012 (→"Personal history"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome

Hello Toccata quarta. Welcome to Misplaced Pages and thank you for your interest in the article about Beethoven's 30th Piano Sonata. Please accept my apologies for reverting your edit to this article, because straight rather than curly quotation marks are preferred on Misplaced Pages. (For the gory details, you can see Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style#Quotation_marks, under the heading "Quotation characters".) Best regards. --Stfg (talk) 10:21, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Composer timelines

Good to see your edits here! I think the Romantic timelines in particular could do with some attention — and probably the 20th century one too. (I've done some work on the earlier ones). (RT) (talk) 17:46, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting the vandalism to my user page! –BMRR (talk) 03:26, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Carlo Grante

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A tag has been placed on Carlo Grante requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Tanzeel Ahad (talk) 12:52, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

-- φ OnePt618 φ 19:06, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Leonardo da Vinci

What you have done appears to be small tweaks, but I really am straining to find them. It is much quicker and more convenient for you to leave an edit summary, as requested for all edits, than for someone who watches the article to have to search everything you do to make sure its not vandalism. PLEEEASE leave edits summaries! This article gets half a million hits a month, so we try to fix anything that goes wrong, immediately.Amandajm (talk) 12:13, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations

Congrats on the impressive work you just added to the list of composers.Spray787 (talk) 12:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid there's nothing to admire; the massive addition was the result of a bug, which I have now fixed. --Toccata quarta (talk) 12:33, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorabji

Hi, Toccata quarta. My apologies for not responding sooner to your query. I actually thought I had, but I have my fingers in a lot of pies around here (too many, probably) and things do slip through occasionally.

Yes, the title and page number(s) etc are the ideal things to have in a reference. In the case of online citations, this is achieved by enclosing the URL in single square brackets and writing in the appropriate reference, thus:

• .

Some people prefer to do it this way:

• .

What I did was the start of the process, the square brackets. Without them, we just had a pile of bare URLs showing up, which is most unsightly. Sometimes URLs reveal what they relate to, but generally they don't. Now we need to finish the process by inserting the references;

If in future I appear to be ignoring you, please be assured it will not be deliberate or malicious. A gentle reminder would be in order. Cheers. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 19:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply! I have to confess I became frustrated when I saw that you had replied to edits done after mine. --Toccata quarta (talk) 21:12, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Mea culpa, but when one is advancing on many fronts simultaneously, one's progress is not always linear and sequential. Cheers. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Leoš Janáček

Hello Toccata quarta. I've addressed your {{which?}} question. Thanks for your interest in the article. What do you think about it? Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 08:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. The article is pretty good; certainly better than anything I have so far mustered up. --Toccata quarta (talk) 08:13, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 13:01, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Heads-up

With reference to this edit I just wanted to give you a heads-up about the existence of {{subst:uw-minor}}. __meco (talk) 09:54, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for drawing my attention to it.—Toccata quarta (talk) 10:03, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Repoulis

Thanks for opening the sockpuppet case on Michael Repoulis. I was contemplating doing this when I found you'd already done it! --Deskford (talk) 09:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Your comment at VPR

Could you please redact the ad hominem portion of this comment? Accusing someone you disagree with of lying and intellectual dishonesty doesn't add anything constructive to the discussion (and would likely derail it), whether the claims have merit or not. Thanks. wctaiwan (talk) 05:14, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

What else is the person doing? He clearly contradicted a Misplaced Pages definition. Pretending to be knowledgeable while not being such or lying is far worse—infinitely worse, if I may say so—than pointing out that either of those two things has taken place. Do you think straw man fallacies have a place in Misplaced Pages? Toccata quarta (talk) 05:19, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

No, not really. I disagree that iridescent was deliberately being dishonest or casting a strawman argument, but even if they were, ad hominem comments aren't required to refute an argument. Anyway, thanks for the redaction.

I think their main point--as they elaborated in the rest of the comment--was that FAs aren't necessarily "the best articles" (relative to articles that aren't FAs), but rather those that meet certain requirements. Basically, they placed more emphasis on the concrete criteria set out in WP:WIAFA than the broad description at the top. wctaiwan (talk) 05:38, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Sky color

Thanks for the note and links! 93.50.155.140 (talk) 22:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

You are welcome! :) Toccata quarta (talk) 03:08, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Tb

Ihardlythinkso (talk) 20:34, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Query re MOS:BIO

Hi Toccata, I noticed the reverts @ Garry Kasparov & would like to understand them better, your edit summary simply refers to MO:BIO. (I'd like to confirm what specific part you're applying. Is it: "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability."?) I'm not challenging your reverts, in fact I agree w/ them. I want to be sure I understand the MOS guideline employed. Thank u! Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:47, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's the part I was referring to. There are some cases when ethnicity is emphasised in the lead, such as Charles-Valentin Alkan and Felix Mendelssohn, as it is relevant to the subjects' notability. Toccata quarta (talk) 12:43, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Toccata, I took a look at those articles, I understand the prominence of ethnicity in the Mendelssohn article (many mentions & references), but just from a straight reading, the Alkan article doesn't seem to present at all why ethnicity has bearing on notability, so I'm puzzled. (I don't know the subject, perhaps you do well. How does ethnicity feature in Alkan's life, and, why isn't there text in the article to convey same? Is it perhaps omission in the article, or am I missing it?) I think you understand this better than I do, so thx for any help. Ok, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 01:04, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I suppose it is omission on part of the article. This page (which is the work of a prominent editor of the Alkan article) has some information on the topic. All best, Toccata quarta (talk) 04:06, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your good answer. I need to read & review (again) the article you identified, to gain solid understanding how "relevant to the subject's notability" is fairly & conscientiously applied. Meanwhile I notice, at least the following articles have "Jewish" in their immediate leads, and I'd like to determine whether (or not) "relevant to the subject's notability" applies: Isaac Boleslavsky, David Bronstein, Akiba Rubinstein, Alexander Khalifman, Edward Lasker, Richard Reti, Grigory Levenfish, Miguel Najdorf, Johannes Zukertort, Jacques Mieses. (I'm sure there are more.) Any help / guidance / suggestions / comments is appreciated. Ok, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 10:26, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I have just gone through those articles and cleaned them. I spared the one on Khalifman, as it has only a lead. Toccata quarta (talk) 21:58, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for doing all that work! I've restrutured the Khalifman article, including creation of a lead (and moved the ethnic info to body). Thanks again for your kind help. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 13:06, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Caroline Haslett

It's a direct quote, now with an added reference to support it. "Wonders" were how this "All-Electric House" was perceived at the time, how it was described, and this is important to understanding its cultural context. This is not added peacock phrasing, per WP:PEA. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:17, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

If that's the case, then it needs to be attributed. For instance, one could write, "The All-Electric House that she invented was described by Times magazine as a 'wonder'." Such words, when not attributed to anybody, are problematic per WP:PEA. Toccata quarta (talk) 17:22, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

It already was attributed, that's why I added a ref to it. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:38, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

The goal of Misplaced Pages is to report what reliable sources have to say. Have you looked at WP:PEA, specifically the Bob Dylan example? Accusing me of violating WP:PEA and describing my adhering to a Misplaced Pages policy as "clumsy unreadability" is needless and will get you nowhere. Toccata quarta (talk) 18:00, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

WP 1.0 articles by size

You had asked about listing articles by size and assessment. I wrote a tool for you at that should do it. Please let me know what you think. — Carl (CBM · talk) 16:48, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Just what I was hoping for. :) Toccata quarta (talk) 19:29, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

List of 21st-century classical composers

Unlike the list for 20th century, this list has no room for works. Isn't it better to list recent works in 20th century then, for a better profile of a composer, rather than showing only the less mature works? (example Rhapsodie Macabre) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:53, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

User:Jerome Kohl came up with the idea of removing non-20th-century works from the 20th-century article (). I think the other article merits a "Notable works" table column as much as the first. Toccata quarta (talk) 14:10, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I see that Jerome removed works before the 20th century, that's different (for me) than after, especially as long as we don't have room in 21st. Or should I be bold and install it there? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:01, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, he has also removed 21st-century works. Toccata quarta (talk) 15:36, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Started to change, got to D, need a break ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:08, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

reached Z, now the works could be populated, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:15, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Precious

	music and chess
	Thank you for your tireless work on the maintenance of composers' and chess lists and articles, and facts about composers known and less known, such as Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji, - you are an awesome Wikipedian! - Gerda Arendt

Thank you very much for the compliment, although I don't feel I quite deserve it. :) Toccata quarta (talk) 08:38, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Wagner

Hi, thanks for your edits on Wagner, and for sorting out my errors - I think I am about at the end of any changes now, do you feel there are still things to be dealt with? Best, --Smerus (talk) 17:53, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

You are welcome. There are several things that are of concern to me:

(Disclaimer: English is not my first language, so that may influence my areas of focus.)

• "described as marking the start of modern music"

Wouldn't "described as the start of modern music" be better?

• At times there is "Ring cycle", but at others there is "Ring Cycle". I think the first form is better (as the second is not related to the work's full title in German).

"However, Wagner continued his correspondence with Mathilde and his friendship with (and support from) her husband Otto."

What is the "(and support from)" part supposed to convey?

• "Richard Wagner's Visit to Rossini (Paris 1860): and an Evening at Rossini's in Beau-Sejour (Passy) 1858"

This is missing an ISBN number. I found two at http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/10782590?versionId=46412229. Sources also differ on the use of a colon in the title; some use a semicolon, others a comma and some nothing instead of it. Some of them also capitalise the word "an".

• "Italienische Tondichter, von Palestrina bis auf die Gegenwart"

A Google search shows various approaches to capitalising the title of this work. Google Books also adds ": Eine reihe von vortragen" at the end of the title. Toccata quarta (talk) 20:10, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Toccata

Are u OK after the rebuke at Bobby? (I understand your angle but as you know agree w/ the current status.) Together (life interventons not withstanding) we'll all build a great encyclopedia!? (The concept is wonderful but currently poisoned by Admin maverickiness. ) Anyway I love chess and classical music (many many years violin student and life-long love of classical), so you know what I mean! (Do u play?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 21:24, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not that bothered by it, but frankly, "GM" is a FIDE title, so I'm staying behind my position. (I've also come to the conclusion that some of Misplaced Pages's policies in this area should be changed.) But I would certainly like the Fischer article to become a GA/FA, and will try in the future to do some work on it. Toccata quarta (talk) 21:39, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Links to klassik-resampled.de

Hi. I've started a discussion about today's links to klassik-resampled.de at: Misplaced Pages:External links/Noticeboard#Links to klassik-resampled.de. Cheers. GFHandel ♬  00:17, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

D Clef and COI

User talk:D clef's edit on my talk page indicats that there is a COI. I have left a message to that effect on D Clef's talk page. I recommended using a edit request. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 18:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Tarik O'Regan

Hi there, I think it's right that Tarik O'Regan's Algerian heritage is included in his biography because it has become notable to his identity as a composer, as per MOS:BIO. In other words, what makes him notable as a composer is that he writes works based on (or referencing) his Algerian heritage, with which he self-identifies, and has become notable for that fact. For example: http://www.schirmer.com/default.aspx?tabId=2422&State_2879=2&newsId_2879=2571 and http://www.chesternovello.com/Default.aspx?TabId=2432&State_3041=2&workId_3041=35661 and http://www.wqxr.org/#!/articles/q2-album-week/2012/jan/10/celts-and-christians-collide-tarik-oregans-irish-colloquy/ and http://www.artsatl.com/2011/03/tarik-oregans-triptych-british-music-in-a-free-concert-on-emory-campus/. What do you think? Grovereaper (talk) 16:54, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

The fact that he is of such or such ethnicity is not a reason why he's famous, even if it is a widely known fact. (For an example of ethnicity being relevant to a summary, see the article Barack Obama.) However, the influence of Algerian music on his work is definitely important, so a "His music is influenced by " sentence is a good idea. Toccata quarta (talk) 09:06, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, thanks. So would that sentence go into the summary paragraph somewhere? I suppose he is one of very few classical composers with an Arab background working in the US or UK, does that make his ethnicity notable do you think? For example I notice the ethnicity of Mohammed Fairouz is mentioned in the first sentence. Grovereaper (talk) 09:54, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I have adjusted the two articles as best as I could. Best, Toccata quarta (talk) 10:31, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit war?

You have twice reverted the information I added to the List of medieval composers. You have not tried to contact me and find an agreement but simply, as a start, as a first move, summarily deleted my contribution. I will again insert that information. I invite you to read what the definition of an edit war is and the consequences of one here before you delete my contribution a third time. Signed: Basemetal (write to me here) 21:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Basemetal, that's very interesting. (That you *believe* in WP policies and guidelines. Because from what I can see, no one follows them.) For example, I think I can find in WP documentation somewhere (it would be easy), that you, as editor, should "not re-revert, even if you think you are right". Question for you: Isn't that exactly what you are doing, or alerting your intention to do? (So then, you yourself are not following prescribed WP protocol, by "re-reverting even when you think you are right". So you, by definition, are equally guilty of not following WP policy and guideline, and, how does that give you any kind of position-basis to accuse or suggest that another editor is not?)

I'm not saying you are wrong. I just think the WP policies/guidelines seem to be a sham in general, chaos rules, and the only order brought to bear, ever, is an Admin who takes a personal subjective liking or disliking to something that has crossed his or her radar, for whatever reason. (And then he or she uses whatever policy or guideline quotations he or she cherry-picks, to justify what sanction he or she wants to bring, on whomever he or she wants to bring it. For example, right at this very moment, writing these words that I'm writing to you, in introspective dialogue about WP operation, could be justification of block of me by an Admin, for "tendentious editing", "battleground mentality", "disruption", "rant", "wall of text", "demonstration of inability to work in collaborative environment", whatever other BS the abusive Admin's little heart wishes it to be, to carry out his or her agenda of the moment.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 22:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Well I don't believe in WP policies and guidelines religiously as it were. They're not gospel. But they're something that has got to exist no matter how flawed its application. But I also believe it is better to reach consensus if not agreement thru personal interaction before one appeals to policy and regulations. I personally never just summarily revert people's contributions before first contacting them and trying to sort out what their purpose was, what they would think of a revert, etc. I don't think it is very pleasant to have someone revert just like that a contribution you have just made. It is almost an insult, almost a "Shut up, you moron!". Now if I have been guilty myself of going against policy, it was out of ignorance. I'll look for what you are saying, even though your directions are a little bit vague :-) But the bright line rule of 3 reverts clearly distinguishes between they who start the series of reverts and they who just react to it, since the first ones would reach the number 3 first. In any case I found a way (I'm assuming you have followed the substance of the matter, that is the actual reverts in List of medieval composers) to take out what Toccata quarta objected to and at the same time provide the same information and more. No only will readers be conveniently provided with the information that those two hymnographers were actually female but in addition they will learn something about ancient Armenian naming customs. The whole reason I inserted that information in List of medieval composers was that I had myself wondered while reading the article, had to go to their personal articles to find out (think what if they did not have personal articles to turn to, and the List of medieval composers were the only place readers could find out) and thought it was more convenient for readers if that information was already present in the List of medieval composers article. Cheers. Signed: Basemetal (write to me here) 23:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm well aware of Misplaced Pages's policies on edit warring, so I don't need to have them pointed out to me. I'm sure you are aware that WP:3RR is subject to exceptions. The overall spirit of Misplaced Pages is a bit absurd in terms of gender—on the one hand, we have Category:Women composers (although there is no Category:Male composers or Category:Men composers), but at the same time we are instructed to use gender-neutral language. Whatever the case, I really don't why we should single it out. Homosexuals are a minority too (among composers), but I don't see the label "LGBT" in the list List of 20th-century classical composers by birth date. Toccata quarta (talk) 09:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

But the issue here was not to systematically distinguish composers by gender, but rather to give information about names of a kind that'd be unfamiliar to any reader except those aware of Armenian naming customs. You can see further down the list there are other composers, male and female. There's no mention of their gender. But their name is immediately identifiable as female or male. So, from the point of view of the information provided these two Armenian composers formed an exception. They were the only two composers whose gender could not be easily identified. On statistical grounds they would be likely to be mistaken as male by most readers. It made sense to provide that information in this case. In any case by directly giving the translation of the Armenian names the purpose was also achieved. Cheers. Signed: Basemetal (write to me here) 14:46, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with Armenian naming customs, and I'm sure the same is true for many other visitors of en.wikipedia.org. The inclusion of that information—which is already contained in the relevant articles in any case—will make many readers think that the female composers not identified as such in the list are male. Toccata quarta (talk) 20:29, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Hand-coding

Hey all :).

I'm dropping you a note because you've been involved in dealing with feedback from the Article Feedback Tool. To get a better handle on the overall quality of comments now that the tool has become a more established part of the reader experience, we're undertaking a round of hand coding - basically, taking a sample of feedback and marking each piece as inappropriate, helpful, so on - and would like anyone interested in improving the tool to participate :).

You can code as many or as few pieces of feedback as you want: this page should explain how to use the system, and there is a demo here. Once you're comfortable with the task, just drop me an email at okeyeswikimedia.org and I'll set you up with an account :).

If you'd like to chat with us about the research, or want live tutoring on the software, there will be an office hours session on Monday 17 December at 23:00 UTC in #wikimedia-office . Hope to see some of you there! Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 23:03, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Untitled

Tocatta quarta:

You have deleted many modifications I did with the comment SPAM. If you are not agree with the Terms of Use of Misplaced Pages, please delete your account. There are guidelines to talk with the autors prior to delete their articles. I have undo all your undos. Next time please contact with me before. Thanks.Wkmsclg (talk) 00:21, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Your comment is the most astounding distortion of Misplaced Pages policies I have seen in ages. Your edits constitute spam as you have repeatedly added a redlink like this one into multiple articles. Misplaced Pages is not a collection of links (see WP:NOTLINK), nor a platform for self-promotion (see WP:SOAP). As you can see, promoting non-notable material constitutes spamming. I'm well aware of Misplaced Pages policies, but you apparently are not, since you speak of "deleting" accounts, although on Misplaced Pages they are either blocked or banned.

I also strongly suggest that you have a very careful look at WP:SPU. Toccata quarta (talk) 06:45, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism by Toccata Quarta

You are deleting every post I am doing. This is not the way Misplaced Pages works. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:WTAF is not mandatory. You must readit as This essay contains the advice or opinions of one or more Misplaced Pages contributors. Essays may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints. Consider these views with discretion. Essays are not Misplaced Pages policies or guidelines. I have reported every undo as vandalism. It is my last warning to you in order to send this vandalism to info-en@wikimedia.org. Wkmsclg (talk) 08:59, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

(watching) before seeing this I addressed the topic on your talk, - treat other editors as you want to be treated, please (spell names correctly, for example, remain fair and factual). Being new is your only excuse, - but for a new editor you know quite well how to revert and read edit summaries, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:39, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Relax, and be careful, unless you want to get into trouble with administrators.

Let's look at this step by step:

• You added the name of a composer and some of his compositions to various lists of compositions, among other articles.
• If the composer is notable, then the reversions that I have done are indeed less than appropriate. If the material is not notable, then my reversions are fine, and you are deliberately spamming.
• Considering that the composer link you added to various articles was a redlink like this one, you were promoting a non-notable composer. Therefore, my reversions were OK.
• However, I notice that the redlink has now become a bluelink, which means I'm not going to remove that name anymore from the relevant articles.
• I have looked at the article and have some doubts about its subject's notability, but that is another issue.

That being said, as you are not a particularly prolific (and consequently experienced) editor, I suggest you familiarise yourself with Misplaced Pages policies and read carefully what you see. Your statement regarding WP:WTAF is nothing but a falsehood—the editor who referenced is was User:Jerome Kohl, not me. Accusing somebody who reverts something of being a vandal is a very serious accusation, and is not taken lightly. For relevant reading, please see WP:3RR and WP:CIV. Toccata quarta (talk) 13:50, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

My apologies for this issue. Now in my humble opinion you must think about an editor who start to write articles and once he saved them receives a deleted content marked as SPAM with the "...Your edits constitute spam as you have repeatedly added a redlink like this one into multiple articles...". Perhaps it is my way of work the cause of this issue. Here are my steps:

1. I create the article about a composer.
2. I start to update any othe article with the content which references the article created.
3. I start with another composer.

If I wait until the article turn into bluelink I can not continue with the second stage, delaying whatever other contribution I wish to do. Now I understand your way of work but it was the word SPAM in the edit summary field what I can not understand doing the things with good faith. If you are agree I can deleted every "vandalism" I have written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wkmsclg (talk • contribs) 15:12, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad you understand the point I was trying to get across. Your apologies are accepted. Best, Toccata quarta (talk) 15:24, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Definition of Jew

Hi Toccata, don't know but think that User:All Hallow's Wraith point at Johannes Zukertort, is that a person is not under contemporary definition considered a Jew without a Jewish mother. From what I can see this is consistent w/ contemporary definition given in article Who is a Jew?. The definition can otherwise be complex and varied. What is the criteria we are using for WP articles? Ok, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 01:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

A relevant discussion of this topic is found at Talk:Garry Kasparov/Archive 1#Category "Jewish chess player". Toccata quarta (talk) 20:38, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Please cite me...

...the policy that says that WP:Project Music has the jurisdiction to prevent an infobox from being added to a composer's article. I submit, rather, that your project's objections to infoboxes is contrary to general Misplaced Pages practices. If you delete the infobox I have added to Harry Partch, I will bring you to the attention of the adminstrator's noticeboards for disruptive editing. The Music Project, does not, and cannot own the articles it claims to be within its purview, and it has no standing to prevent those articles from adhering to normal Misplaced Pages practices. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

You are about as likely to be reported for having violated WP:3RR as I am—see , and . You threaten to report me for edit warring, even though you have performed just as many related reverts as I have. You are also blatantly distorting the policy WP:OWN. You are not seeking to achieve consensus at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Classical music#Infoboxes (yet again). either, and focus only on my edits, while ignoring the fact that the consensus is also reflected in the edits of other users—see , and .

I also suggest that before bringing "you have no authority I will report you" drama anywhere, you have a thorough look at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Composers/Infoboxes RfC. Toccata quarta (talk) 11:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Additional comment: I notice that you are a preeminent example of a civil editor (per ): "You are totally out of your league in this instance, so I suggest you deal with subjects about which you know something, and keep your nose out of things about which you clearly know nothing. In other words: please fuck off." Nice. And let's not forget this gem of an edit summary: "this piece of bullshit" (). Now I know that I should not expect you to partake in a discussion seeking to achieve consensus. Toccata quarta (talk) 13:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

WP:PEACOCK

Hi TQ! Can I suggest that you are careful with using WP:PEACOCK? I think you have mentioned that English is not your first language, and I do not feel that the language you are copyediting in Richard Wagner falls into the WP:PEA category. WP:PEA relates to words that are exaggerated or indefinite, contentious, unsupported puff, etc. - but expressions such as (for example) 'deepening of his powers', especially where they are followed by a justifying source, do not fall under this criterion. There is a thin line of course between using infrequent adjectives and 'peacock' - but any language which one can find in encylopaedic sources should be acceptable (look for example in any detailed article in Grove). There is no need to reduce an ordinary English WP article to the standards of Basic English. Best, --Smerus (talk) 19:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

My English is not that bad; it certainly enables me to understand the guideline in question. My point is that an unsourced statement such "Wagner was awesome" is to be removed, but one like "many commentators consider Tristan und Isolde Wagner's greatest opera<ref>Citation</ref>" is fine. "Wagner was awesome<ref>Citation</ref>" would need attribution, though. Toccata quarta (talk) 19:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I entirely agree with the example you cite. But I cannot concur that the words deleted by you as WP:PEA, viz., 'Wagner's middle stage output begins to show the deepening of his powers as a dramatist and composer', are in the same peacock category as 'Wagner is awesome', and I believe most contributors would agree with me. The latter statement is an 'encylopaedic' expression conveying worthwhile (and indeed important) information about the changes in Wagner's style, which information is backed up by numerous reliable commentators; whilst the former statement has no informative content whatsoever. Shall we take this issue to the article talk page? Best, --Smerus (talk) 20:49, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

In retrospect, I'd say the "deepening of his powers" passage is unnecessary, because it was in any case a duplicate of what the end of the same paragraph said (and still does). Toccata quarta (talk) 21:13, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

That's true, because I reworded the final sentence a day or two ago following a previous citation by you of WP:PEA (which I also felt was not quite justified, although I did think the sentence needed clarification). So let's in the circumstances leave things as they are. But as the article is often a source of controversy, we should try to be as accurate as possible in citing reasons for edits. With thanks,--Smerus (talk) 21:29, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

"Personal history"

I'm not going to bother to change this again, but it's funny how your edit summary states: "Rm heading restored without a convincing edit summary, not supported by Category:FA-Class Composers articles, as well as thousands of other biographical articles on en.wikipedia.org"...while several of the articles at Category:FA-Class Composers articles do not use "Biography", opting for "Life" (e.g. Georges Bizet, Frederick Delius, Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Peter Warlock), "Life and career" in the case of Olivier Messiaen, or, in the case of Rebecca Clarke (composer) and Frank Zappa, nothing at all. I'm left at a loss as to what the objection is supposed to be. There is certainly no standard I have breached, and no consistency even within the Composers project. CüRlyTüRkey_Contribs 07:54, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

"Life" is indeed used; "Personal life", on the other hand, is something I have never seen in this encyclopedia. Toccata quarta (talk) 07:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)