Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by MediaWiki message delivery (talk | contribs) at 18:42, 4 February 2014 (→Coming up in February!: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5

This page has archives. Sections older than 7 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

Question

If you're reading this, and you're waiting on me for a response to something, please remind me of it. I've had family in and out of the hospital recently on top of computer problems, so some balls got dropped.--Tznkai (talk)

Also, if anyone is disturbed by my constant self depreciating reference to the Judgement of Solomon, please let me know.--Tznkai (talk)

Trout: Bad vote

You have voted voted a disambiguation page mu. I'm wondering if you're trying to convey a nuance of meaning other than "no"? (Or at least a Western / American "no"). NE Ent 10:51, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I am confused why I'm being trouted, is it because I didn't link correctly? No matter, I'm using wu in the sense that it is used to answer koans and other loaded questions, that is, to reject the inquiry as ill-founded.--Tznkai (talk) 14:17, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. The primary reason you were trouted is because you have the open to trouting user box on your use page. Practice I was referring to is WP:INTDAB. Per WP:TROUT such things are not meant to be taken seriously. NE Ent 12:33, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

This thread is floundering. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 12:55, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

NE Ent, thanks, I was just concerned I had missed something more serious. George, there is a special circle of hell reserved for child molesters, punsters, and people who talk at the theater.--Tznkai (talk) 15:58, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to come to this party late, but just saw the vote you made and wanted to add "mou" to your repertoire of ways to say it in Asian languages, if it's not already there. That's how you say it in Cantonese (maybe also other southern varieties of Chinese? Not sure.) If you already knew that, please disregard my message. If not... well, you can still disregard it if you so choose. :-) Heimstern Läufer (talk) 11:48, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the information! I wouldn't know on the other dialects of Chinese, since they're pretty much independent languages inexplicably bound by a shared written language. Source it and add it to the page?--Tznkai (talk) 17:16, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

It's already in the infobox, at least, which might be sufficient if there's nothing particularly Cantonese to say about it. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:05, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Regarding appeal Cihsai

Hi Tznkai, upon your advice I have informed the three editors on their talk pages. I was not aware that such notice was my responsibility, therefore thank you for your advice. I wish to inform the editor Omer182 as well who had taken a lead role in discussion back in 2007-2008. Would he be allowed to contribute under the "uninvolved editors" section, if he prefers to interfere?

I wish to make some further statements in view of the comments of "uninvolved editors" as well as possibly "involved editors". Can you please advise where I can insert such new statements?Cihsai (talk) 20:29, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Cihsai, you would add comments under "statement by Cihsai", other editors will add their comments where they will in their best judgement.--Tznkai (talk) 04:34, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi,I have of course acknowledged your decision about the ban. I know that your decision is not subject to discussion. However I am eager to know the reasons for your decision. Therefore I kindly ask you to provide comments to the statements I have made. I have let some time to pass and reevaluated my statements. I beleive I have presented the facts in understandable English. My common sense as well as the Misplaced Pages guidelines as quoted in my statement, lead me to beleive that those facts would not render me to have deserved a ban. Actually I would expect the counterparts to be criticised.I wonder whether I have failed to present the facts or the “Rules” are very different from what I understand.Thanks in advanceCihsai (talk) 20:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

I've been pretty busy this week, but I will try to review over the next day. Is that alright?--Tznkai (talk) 21:11, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

OK. I'm not sure there are formal rules on this anywhere, but in my opinion, in order to modify the ban of another administrator I have to be convinced not that I would have done something different, but that the administrator who did it was obviously wrong. If it is reasonable that the other administrator did what they did, I should not over turn it. OR, if circumstances have changed significantly since the original action, then I might waive or lessen the sanction. Either way, you have to convince me that something is significantly different.

The hang up seems to be over the nature of consensus and the revert/discuss cycle. Your appeal seemed to rest on three grounds. 1. That you had in fact been discussing, 2. that the other people involved in the discussion were reverting without discussion and 3. that you were actually defending the status quo ante.

In order for discussion to be adequate, it needs to be sustained, currently active and almost always on the talk page. If an edit is controversial, that means get agreement before making the substantive change. The point is for people to work together and to come to compromise. So, you needed to be actively discussing. Your second and third points don't work out because of the old adage of two wrongs not making a right. Maybe your opponents should have been more polite, and maybe someone should have done a better job back in 2008, but right now, you're using the edit process to try to force what you think should be the correct.

I understand that the flimsy way we use "consensus" is incredibly frustrating, but the bottom line is this: you have to convince people that you're right, or at least to compromise, instead of just editing the page to try to get your way.--Tznkai (talk) 17:21, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Some food for thought

Amanda Hess' article on being a woman subject to threats on the internet. The law-enforcement part isn't our problem per se, but the dynamic is.--Tznkai (talk)

Indef blocked IPs problem

Hey, so I am nudging you per your remark. There are competing ideas on how to handle the problem but I think the consensus is that this is indeed a problem which is progress never the less.

There are two main competing ideas at the moment one that suggests carefully checking the IPs before unblocking them and the other (mine) is to unblock 1000 IPs per day and let RC patrol/everybody monitor these.

The problem with running checks on these IPs is that it requires some expertise to operate and interpret tools to determine if an IP is an open proxy or not. Even if there were such people with disposable time it would take them months to years to process 20,000 IPs even if they dedicated their time to this task. I do not believe this is worth the trouble.

I think my idea of unblocking 1000 indef blocked IPs per day (only IPs blocked before 2010 and with exceptions at the discretion of admins, arbitrators, checkusers etc. whom may choose to reinstate the block) and monitor them seems to be a practical solution to the problem. The discretion clause is there to avoid senseless wheel wars as the goal here is to pre-process indef blocks down to more manageable numbers where we can review remaining ones with greater scrutiny. It would still take about 1 month to process this many IPs.

Mind that a good chunk of the blocks were precautionary rather than to prevent disruption and the people enacting them while having good intentions weren't necessarily experts in handling open proxies. I am not trying to accuse anyone, just merely suggesting that particularly indeffed IP blocks prior to 1 January 2010 are perhaps outdated as we do not indef block known open proxies today. That cut-off date is entirely arbitrary by the way. Also 20,000 IPs may sound like a lot but we do not run such proposed checks to billions of IPs that edit[REDACTED] "unchecked".

-- A Certain White Cat 18:24, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

OK. I'm going to think about the best way to approach it. While I agree that manually checking IPs is an inefficient way to do it, there tends to be strong resistance to mass unblocking for reasons beyond my understanding. It will do no good to simply unblock a bunch if they are immediately reblocked by someone else. I think we're going to need to demonstrate some sort of groundwork, or automated system before approaching that. I will ask around.--Tznkai (talk) 17:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

It would have been nice if ArbCom established some sort of arbitrary cut off date for this... allowing a bulk unblock prior to that arbitrary date... I am not opposed to the notion of automated checks (if IPs are dynamic ranges, globally blocked on meta, public open proxies, etc.) but say if a check returned positive for open proxy, the block should still be reduced to 1-2 years rather than indefinite as we do not do indefinite blocks for open proxies anymore as you probably know for years. Mind that I do not want to game the system by reducing the blocks down to 1-2 years and let them expire in bulk either. We need to have a way to keep long term blocks in check - particularly for open proxies. -- A Certain White Cat 17:12, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Meetups coming up in DC!

Hey!

You are invited to two upcoming events in DC:

• Meetup at Capitol City Brewery on Saturday, January 25 at 6 PM. Please join us for dinner, drinks, socializing, and discussing Wikimedia DC activities and events. All are welcome! RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.
• Art and Feminism Edit-a-Thon on Saturday, February 1 from Noon – 5 PM. Join us as we improve articles on notable women in history! All are welcome, regardless of age or level of editing experience. RSVP on the linked page or through Meetup.

I hope to see you there!

(Note: If you do not wish to receive talk page messages for DC meetups, you are welcome to remove your username from this page.)

Harej (talk) 00:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Coming up in February!

Hello there!

Our February WikiSalon is coming up on Sunday, February 23. Join us at our gathering of Misplaced Pages enthusiasts at the Kogod Courtyard of the National Portrait Gallery with an optional dinner after. As usual, all are welcome. Care to join us?

Also, if you are available, there is an American Art Edit-a-thon being held at the Smithsonian American Art Museum with Professor Andrew Lih's COMM-535 class at American University on Tuesday, February 11 from 2 to 5 PM. Please RSVP on the linked page if you are interested.

If you have any ideas or preferences for meetups, please let us know at Misplaced Pages talk:Meetup/DC.

Thank you, and hope to see you at our upcoming events! Harej (talk) 18:42, 4 February 2014 (UTC)