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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Montanabw (talk | contribs) at 05:53, 19 February 2014 (→messing around in other people's playpens....: Nope, I'm gonna hibernate on that one!). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Beware! This user's talk page is monitored by talk page watchers. Some of them even talk back. Make articles, not wikidrama User:Jake Wartenberg/centijimbo This user replies where s/he likes, and is inconsistent in that respect. Traffic count!

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Anyone may play in my sandboxes, in the archive list to the right, IF you promise to behave. This means:

• No kicking sand
• No hitting other people over the head with toys
• No pooping, even if you are a cat and neatly cover it up!
• It's my sandbox, so I can throw you out if you misbehave!  :-)

" readers will not be privy to the massive undercurrents of dross that underpins WP. They require well written, well sourced, encyclopaedic material that can inform, enlighten and satisfy their interest."

"We live a time when criticism, especially here on Misplaced Pages, is considered to be a personal attack, which is at the root of this nonsense. Yet without criticism we can't improve."

"Montana, you know I respect you greatly--you write FAs that have fewer adjectives than that outburst."

"Every edit, especially bold ones, is disruptive. Disruptive just means changing the status quo and because Misplaced Pages is in a constant state of evolution, it is in a constant state of disruption ..."

Before you post on my talk page (humor)

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Happy Montanabw's Day!

User:Montanabw has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Montanabw's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Montanabw! Peace, Rlevse 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Awww, gee! That was really super nice! Thank you! Montanabw 04:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

'tis the season

Louisa Venable Kyle wrote a children's book on The Witch of Pungo --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:50, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mucho Macho Man

The article Mucho Macho Man you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Mucho Macho Man for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 07:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

John Walsh article edits

Thanks for restoring the links to Ballotpedia and other external links. I didn't realize those were "live" when I deleted them -- I thought they were a template for something that wasn't yet populated.

I also added the .pdf of the IG report as a reference in the body of the article -- you took it out as an external link, and I think it fits better as a reference for the topic in question.

Thanks,

Billmckern (talk) 12:14, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Feline infectious peritonitis (FIP)

Apologies for the awkward rewrite in the FIP article. My goal was to represent recent changes in the understanding of this disease. Great article, but it needs a few updates. Thanks for your consideration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cytovet (talk • contribs) 18:02, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Just be careful not to delete wikilinks, existing references and such. These medial articles need to be improved, that's for sure, but not by tossing what's there only to replace it with unsourced or poorly-worded new material. Keep plugging away at it, though, you'll get better! Montanabw 21:04, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

New Animal Welfare templates

Hi Montanabw. I'm working on new templates for animal welfare - I'd really appreciate you having a look at Template Talk:Animal welfare and leaving feedback. Come and join my gang  ;-) __DrChrissy (talk) 01:04, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Interesting, but a can of worms. I'll comment there. Montanabw 02:53, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Policy

You have policy backwards. Any contested unsourced claim can be removed instantly and cannot be reinserted without consensus and sourcing. So please dont keep editwarring to keep an obviously problematic unsourced claim in the article.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:59, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Wrong, Maunus. No policy says that. Material may be "challenged and removed" - but you can't just remove anything your POV thinks is inaccurate - and there have been Native People in the in the Americas for well over 9,000 years, so claims of the Piegan to have lived in that region that long may be questionable (I think they arrived much later, the Crow were their sooner, but Montana does have some very ancient sites) but are not "obviously" wrong. If you let the tag sit for a few hours, I'll go find a source and put in the best numbers available, just for you. Really, you also could get off your ass and just fix it yourself, too, you know. Montanabw 00:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I can remove anything that my POV says is inaccurate if it is not sourced. The claim that Piegans lived in MOntana 7000 years ago is not just questionable it is absurd since there were no Piegan or Blackfeet at that time. Yes there have been Bative people in the US for over 13,000 years in fact - but ascribing tribal affiliations to people more than a thousand years into the past is ridiculous and unscientific, doing so constitutes a poltical claim not a factual one. Regarding me getting off my ass I can only say that that is none of your goddamn business. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:16, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

It was something to refine and fix, which I did. (And actually, 13,000 years is the most conservative figure, some speculation goes as far back as 50,000 years, though the oldest evidence is pretty sketchy) Frankly, I can make all the suggestions I want - if you have the energy to waste this much bandwidth arguing, edit-warring, quoting policy at an experienced editor, and being nasty in general, then yes, in fact you DO have the energy to get off your ass, do some research, and have quietly fixed it without creating a bunch of drama. I'm tired of people who complain and won't be part of the solution. We content editors do all the real work of wikipedia, and without us the whole project would not exist. It would be really nice to get a bit more help sometimes instead of a bunch of whiner playing "gotcha." Montanabw 02:24, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

YOU were rude from the outset, both to me and to the IP - and you were editwarring against both of us. You could have made the encounter more pleasant by cutting out the sarcasm and passive aggresion from the outset and engaging in a meaningful discussion. And now you are whining both her and on the talkpage of the article. I quoted policy not because I didnt think you knew it but because you were obviously violating it. It is none of your business how I choose to spend my time. And I am just as much of a fucking content editor as you are so get of that high horse and save the martyr complex for someone who cares. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:43, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Um, no, the rule is WP:BRD. The IP deleted (B), I said no (R) with a simple explanation (edit summaries, are, by their nature, terse), then you barged in and reverted with a nasty edit summary that was a touch racist in it's "they couldn't possibly have been there" tone (no nuance possible in an edit summary I will acknowledge), so I restored and said tag, (that's 2RR, not "edit-warring") then you got obnoxious and left your lovely message above. (kind of a D) Then I went out of my way (to the neglect of other[REDACTED] tasks I hoped to accomplish yesterday) to find a source and straighten out the matter. Disagreeing with your approach is not edit-warring, and calling you on your mean, nasty, snarky and generally disrespectful tone is not "rude" - it's "back atcha, bucko." You still are mis-stating policy, the operative phrase is "challenge and remove" not "remove and attack people who disagree with you." Fankly, you can do anything you want work-wise, but likewise, I have a perfect right to be irritable at people who make more work for me and act like the cat, the dog, and all the other creatures in The Little Red Hen who want others to do all the work but they are perfectly willing to reap the benefits. And please, refrain from using four-letter obscenities on my talk page again. Though we all cuss a bit from time to time (yes, even me), I have no interest in seeing profanity here. Montanabw 18:04, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Just for the record this was my "racist" edit summary " nope anything unsourced can be removed, and this is unlikely to be sourceable". The subsequent snark was all your initiative. And just so you know 2RR is in fact editwarring, and can even get you blocked. Maybe you should read up on policy. BRD is not policy and does not encourage or allow people to reinsert unsourced incorrect information into articles. And be assured that I will not use four letter words or words of any other length on your talkpage again, I will instead do my best to avoid you as the plague.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:09, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, that's fair, I read more into the IP and your edit summaries than you intended. ( I read into it the implication that native people had not been in the area prior to the current era, which is an attitude I've run across sometimes) So I apologize for that. But beyond that, no, you do not get blocked for 2RR, and you have been here long enough to know that, and I am glad to hear that you wish to avoid my talk page, it will be a far pleasanter place for it. Montanabw 18:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Williams Lake Stampede and Sugarcane Reserve, 1941

One of my FB friends, who's also a noted local author Sage Birchwater, who could use an article some day (I mean he couldn't use the article, but[REDACTED] could), posted this 1941 video shot by the "Indian Nurse" and at a certain point onwards by a young Indian boy. The soundtrack isn't from the period, though the style of fiddling may be local....the US flag you'll see would have always shown up for any event drawing an international crowd; the Williams Lake Stampede is one of BC's larger rodeos and draws competitors from the Mountain States and beyond. This is all amazing footage....sending it to you because of the horseflesh in it. I think I made an article on Sugarcane, as Williams Lake Indian Reserve No. 1 is called (might be in Misplaced Pages as Williams Lake 1); the reference is to a sweet-tasting reed that grows on the marge of the eponymous lake. See Williams Lake, British Columbia for the mostly-white town west of the Reserve....I guess you know we have Boxing Day on Dec 26....Williams Lake (or Billy's Puddle as it's called) invented Wrestling Day, January 2.....Skookum1 (talk) 08:14, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Move like this

Move Like This
by 28bytes

I liked your vote, - one link goes to "awesomely weird", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:05, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Beware on the 28th: a blue duck attacks the German Main page, right now! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:07, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Hooray for ducks! File:Duck duck goose Great Falls.JPG. Montanabw 17:40, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

What a blue! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:49, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Your revert

Hi Montanabw,

You reverted my content without explanation, so I undid this revision. Was this a mistake or was this intentional, because if its intentional, then why did you remove legitimate content from an article? Sportsguy17 (T • C) 00:35, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I screwed up and hit the wrong link when comparing old and new versions. Completely my mistake, and I am sorry! Montanabw 04:35, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

No problem. Just making sure. It's a shame that the DYK nomination wasn't qualified. Darn, that would've been a good one. Oh well. Best and thanks for your feedback on the DYKN. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 05:59, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that sucked. I hate to have to fail a nom. But I couldn't crunch the numbers in any way to make it a 5x expansion. Maybe tune it up farther and try to get it to GA? Montanabw 06:16, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Absolutely, I'd love to go for GA. Any advice where to begin? Unfortunately, there is no 1910's baseball team article to use as an example, so what needs to happen in order for this to be a GA? Sportsguy17 (T • C) 23:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Gallery

• White Horse in Pasture, 1806-1807, oil on canvas, Oskar Reinhart Foundation, Winterthur
• Girl riding, all by Jacques-Laurent Agasse
• The Wellesley Grey Arabian Led through the Desert
• Edinburgh and London Royal Mail

Actually I am looking for dogs for the article Cultural depictions of dogs‎; but keep finding horses. Here you have them. Hafspajen (talk) 01:57, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Possibly try searching for dogs by various breed names, might get something there. Montanabw 06:17, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Kudos to your gentility!

		The Civility Barnstar
		I'm very happy to know that humility and knowledge are coexisting in you. You truely have a beautiful mind with a beautiful heart. Thanks for being the way you are. Seabuckthorn ♥ 08:28, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Kind regards, Afro-Eurasian (talk) 23:53, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

"How's my driving?"

Have you seen those signs that employers put on commercial vehicles so they can get feedback on how a driver is doing? I recently had some interactions with the TFA coordinator that raised some concerns in my mind about whether he's exactly the right person for that job. I'm worried about his interpretation of policies like WP:OWN, WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY and WP:BATTLEGROUND. In my interaction, some statements he made suggested that the TFA coordinate may overrule WP:CONSENSUS, using a "because I said so" sort of argument. But hopefully, my interaction is just an anomaly.

I'm not part of the mainpage community, I've never made a proposal at TFA-- in contrast, you userpage is full of stars and you seem familiar with things, so you're a good person to ask.

Has the current coordinator's tenure been well received by the main page community? Is my interaction with the coordinator an anomaly that comes just from fact that I made a very controversial proposal? Or is this just one datapoint in a larger pattern of behavior?

I hope the answer is that it's just an anomaly, but I hafta ask. --HectorMoffet (talk) 19:44, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh dear, poor grasshopper you have just stepped Through the Looking Glass of the Twilight Zone into the manure that is the land of TFA and all other Weird Science that accompanies it. The short answer to your question is that TFA is pretty much a tiny oligarchy answerable to very few, and that the current individual I think you are referencing is actually a vast improvement over the previous individual who held the position. So if you want to change the culture over there, be prepared for months on end of Sturm und Drang, and at the end, a few minor changes. Not that a few minor changes aren't useful (the previous "director" was IMHO problematic when he deigned to do his job at all) but I've decided that the best way to get an article to TFA is to have several other wikipedians supporting it and then apply lots of carrots. Sticks are useless. JMO, and good luck! Montanabw 20:11, 27 January 2014 (UTC) Oh, and no, I don't think it's because your proposal is controversial in the outside world. Around here, "controversy" was putting up Mr. Hankey, the Christmas Poo for TFA on Dec 25, or Icelandic Phallological Museum for Valentine's Day. Now THAT stuff was controversial!  :-P Montanabw 20:20, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I don't think a change of TFA coordinator would necessarily be the controversial, so long as it's presented to a wide community and there's an election like the kind we'd have for other uniquely important positions like Arbcom, Board Members, etc.

The real question is whether there's a problematic patter of behavior. We could get lots of candidates who have greater civility and tact-- traits we would want in a TFA coordinator.

That said, the two encounters I've had aren't enough that I would want to actually present a change of TFA Coordinator to the community. Being rude and battlegroundy is a problem, but that's just a problem for WP:ANI, not elections.

I guess i should ask point blank-- does the current TFA coordinator respect consensus or not? If I learned that of an instances where the coordinator closed something against consensus, that would be something worth holding an election over. WP:CIVILITY shouldn't be flexible for a TFA coordinator, but we all have our bad days. But WP:CONSENSUS doesn't bend.--HectorMoffet (talk) 20:33, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Like I say, I think the problem is more the institutional structure than the individual. Montanabw 22:15, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh, my friend, "not controversial." Oh dear, oh dear... you are new to this area... (sad grin) au contraire. The previous attempt at a coup d' etat against the director created a huge shitstorm. Basically, the answer is no - the two people coordinating most TFAs now do not have to follow consensus. There is no election, and those who back the current system (this actually does not include the two coordinators, who tend to stay out of that drama) fight very hard to keep it that way. The TFA coordinators interpret the guidelines and policy and act as they see fit, though with input from the community. But, some animals are more equal than others, for sure. So my advice is caution: The predecessor there was User:Raul654, his user page self-description is, well, read the last sentence, that sums it up. Getting rid of him took over a year and largely was, at the end of the day, due to the efforts of this now-banned user and the reality that Raul sort of just quit doing the job. My own view is that the current crew get hit about equally from both sides of the "how did this get on TFA" versus "why isn't this on TFA" divide. The problem isn't so much the individuals in the job, it's the unaccountability that's built into the position. Many of us would like to see TFA director/coordinator be an elected position. But it's not. My take is to not go after the individuals, as their replacements would be pretty similar, but instead to look at the underlying structure that creates them and see what can be done there. Montanabw 21:11, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I have to say you've confirmed everything I fear. I notice that 14 Feb will mark one year "in office", so I'll keep an eye on the situation and see if i think it's worth the trouble to start a sitewide discussion about making some changes. I can't rule out that I just stepped on his toes or said the wrong thing that got under his skin, or if this is generally how he treats people. I'll keep an eye out. --HectorMoffet (talk) 21:40, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

One of the problems faced by TFA is that it is, by definition, just about the most visible showcase of articles on Misplaced Pages. This has the effect of inducing a certain degree of conservatism in the choice of article, because of the fear that something controversial would bring disproportionate reputational damage to our project. Consequently, it tends to make TFA directors err on the side of caution, rather than relying on raw consensus - and that of course is part of the rationale for having a TFA director who can exercise judgement to overrule an inappropriate consensus. I am given to understand that there are certain (unnamed) featured articles possessed of problems that would be better not exposed to public view; these articles should never appear on the Main Page and we must rely on the extra knowledge imparted to the TFA director to ensure that is what happens. It is therefore perfectly possible that the TFA director may come across as rude, unhelpful or obstructive to someone unfamiliar with the process, when they are merely trying to do the job they were appointed to do. Hope that helps --RexxS (talk) 22:20, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for reverting that edit on Saddlebag! --Keithonearth (talk) 21:31, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

It never ends, does it?  ;-) Montanabw 21:34, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Thunder (mascot)

On 2 February 2014, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Thunder (mascot), which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that two purebred Arabian horses have served as "Thunder" ("Thunder II" pictured), the mascot of the Denver Broncos? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thunder (mascot). You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:02, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

TPS Alert! Given the topic and the day, this one could attract all sorts of vandalism and notice from fans of that other team. Can we all watchlist for vandalism? Montanabw 16:59, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

No, sorry, travelling. Look at the Swedish Mainpage of today for something blue and tell the author(s), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:22, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Excellent. As for everyone else, obviously my plea goes out only to those who are hanging out on wiki all day today...  ;) Montanabw 19:27, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Let me know when you nominate it at GA.... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I did. A day or two ago.  ;-) Montanabw 21:36, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Aha, you didn't "let me know" though. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:38, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, man! I didn't want to bug you too much! If you want to review it, be my guest, no one else has gotten to it yet. Montanabw 22:10, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm a soft touch. If my reviews are useful and result in decent outcomes for both your WikiCup efforts and humanity, let me know! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:12, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Excellent. You are a thorough reviewer, and I appreciate your efforts. Montanabw 22:18, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

So, apparently Bucephalus versus unicorns was a thing?

The damn things turn up everywhere... --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh! Snarkives worthy! Thanks for the link! Montanabw 23:00, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Thunder (mascot)

The article Thunder (mascot) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Thunder (mascot) for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 20:22, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Thunderous applause to another GA!, GA, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:47, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Y The Rambling Man (talk) 20:58, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! Some consolation for the Broncos loss. Montanabw 22:06, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Re GANs

My plan is to start peer review on Cutthroat trout as soon as the FA comes through on the Rainbow. Then once the cutthroat peer review is underway, I'll list one of the following for GAN: Brown, Brook or Dolly Varden trout. Been working on all three as time permits. On the road this week, but back in frigid Montana on Friday.

FYI re wikilink to Redband trout - Columbia River redband trout is a redirect to same article so I don't know if both links are required. --Mike Cline (talk) 21:43, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd say that the Columbia River Redband should get its own article eventually, so I'd argue to keep.. most of the other redbands have their own articles, probably wouldn't take too much trouble to pop up a stub. Montanabw 22:06, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Exmoor Pony

If you have time, can you take a look at the recent series of edits to Exmoor Pony (which I reverted)? The source used introduced no new DNA studies, but contains a new interpretation of existing DNA research, and the (new) editor in question is using it to re-build the focus of the section. You worked with Pesky on this article more than I did, I think, so I'm hoping that you can take a look at the source (it's a freely-available PDF) and see if there's anything useful in it. Dana boomer (talk) 13:44, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

On it, thanks for the ping. Montanabw 16:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC) Follow up: It's just the usual "our horses are the pure ancient wild horse and thus better than everyone else's" nonsense. POV pushing. You're so kind to these folks, I'll not go over there and bite, but I will continue to monitor and revert as needed. Pesky's research was very solid. Montanabw 16:48, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Horse worship

Hi Montanabw. See User talk:Bladesmulti/Mentorship#Edit#2 Hayagriva and User talk:Bladesmulti/Mentorship#Edit#3 Horse worship. I've no intention to spend more time to search for sources, but if you think this is better, fine. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:57, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Well, just changing sourced material without checking the source or changing the source is not cool in wiki-land, and in this case, the slightly vague word "inhabitants" avoids an issue over which ethnic groups we are discussing. The section header referred to a specific location and culture, your changes inserted the Dutch word for "Mesolithic," which predates the Bronze Age that is relevant here by several thousand years... appears you have a mentor helping you with language issues, here, absent online sources that others can check, I am hesitant to sign off on your changes. If you can find a peer-reviewed journal or google books link, I would be glad to reconsider. Montanabw 17:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I did check the source, that's why I changed it. Mesolithic was incorrect, indeed; should be bronze Age. The "language mentor" is irrelevant here, although she first assumed I'm a native speaker. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 19:38, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

So why did you just revert me and keep the section header error? Or was this the other user? Do you have a link to the source? Montanabw 19:54, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

The header-error was my fault, working from memory. I simply reverted because I'd checked the source, and concluded it was another example of Blades' rather "free interpretation" of sources, with an Indocentric or Hindutva bend. That's what I'm mentoring him for. At India-related pages, we've got an endless pool of "frogs" who all quack this Indocentric song, (mis)informed by Hindu nationalist propaganda, and blissfully ignorant of basic issues like WP:RS. Publications by Cambridge University Press and the like are routinely dismissed as "fringe theory" when it does not fit their world view, whereas obscure sources are presented as God's holy word (literally!) It's incredible how much time and effort it takes to counter this. That's also why I took a short-cut, and got annoyed; it felt like "yet another one..." Anyway, I've added an explanation, sources and links at Talk:Horse worship#Hayagriva. By the way, I think you may find even older roots for horse worship than 1600 or 2000 BCE, when you search for Indo-European people & horse-worship. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:27, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

That was actually my concern too. So, basically, the word "inhabitants" and "Indus Civilization" IS probably the better way to keep it? Which is what I actually support, whatever got tangled up in the various editing... did I revert to the wrong version or something? As for the rest, I don't really actively edit that page, I just watch for blatent POV pushing and vandalism; but I'd sure support anyone who wanted to improve it! Montanabw 20:30, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

No, on the contary! IVC is not the same as "Indo-Aryans". Oh man, that's a long story; I won't consume your time explaining it. I'll make a correction at the article, so you can see. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:32, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I see the issue is also under discussion at article talk; I'll take it there. FWIW, I have had some study of this culture and period, but I admit it was quite a while ago and not terribly thorough, my interest was more on the Near East and the centers of horse domestication in Eurasia. Montanabw 20:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Have a look . Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:41, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

That works. Montanabw 20:48, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Template:Horse breeds of France

Please see WP:REDNOT and WP:EXISTING regarding red links in navboxes. Also, articles should not be linked to more than once in a navbox. There were also some WP:BIDIRECTIONAL issues. --Rob Sinden (talk) 20:29, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Well, go chat with @Justlettersandnumbers: about major changes, I think he created it; I just reverted your edits and then tried to eliminate the duplicated links. I do know that WikiPRoject equine has been using the red links to guide the creation of new articles with an intent to turn them all blue eventually. Montanabw 21:41, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

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February 2014

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• may date back as far as 5,000 years, and human habitation in what today is Montana dates to the [[.

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 02:27, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Nice to meet you

Hi Montana, sorry about mispresuming your gender. (Not so many women on WP as you know. In fact if you did run an RfA, I've observed distinct positive bias that favors women candidates there. However I've also sometimes noticed a fawning quality to same, which is a bit disturbing since seems to be based on perception the candidate is "traditionally conservative" and not likely to rock any boat for "the men in charge". And that would be hypocritically sexist of course.) I'm into board games on the WP, I see our interests intersect in the little article I created here. (I added an art graphic, but really would have preferred this one, but it's proprietary and not on Commons, of course!) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 04:38, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I have seen some people do a 180 once they realize I'm a woman, usually for the worst, or, occasionally, the "fawining"-but horribly condescending thing you mention. It's so stupid. I don't hide my gender, but I don't advertise it either, I prefer to keep it low key so it doesn't become an issue. Montanabw 18:21, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Template:Sports governing bodies of Canada

Your wholesale revert of {{Sports governing bodies of Canada}} was not helpful. As this is outside of your usual editing patterns, I can only assume that you were checking my edits. Whilst the discussion rages on about the Animal breeds, your blatant disregard for the guidelines here as well does not show good faith. You may find your WP:LOCALCONSENSUS with the animal breeds, who knows, but a lot of other navboxes need tidying up - and this was clearly one, as it included a lot of unlinked text as well as redlinks. I'd suggest any further discussion regarding this particular navbox be taken to the corresponding talk page, and I urge you not to revert my future edits where your reversions go against the established guidelines for navboxes. --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:20, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Um, now who has a WP:OWN issue? And no, Equine Canada is on that template, which is why it flagged for me in a automatic notification. Now go assume good faith and quit insisting your interpretation of the navbox guidelines is the only correct one, because it is not the only way to look at this. If you want to preserve the redlinks in a series, then we would have an agreement. Montanabw 18:19, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

WP:REDNOT

Hello, I thought I'd write here as it's quieter, but it has just occurred to me that you may have missed the point regarding WP:REDNOT. The guideline is a broad guideline for all of Misplaced Pages, not a specific one for navboxes, and where it mentions "Do not create red links to articles that are not likely to be created", this is not for navboxes, but a rule for all of Misplaced Pages. It then goes on to state how they should not generally be placed in navboxes, with a possible exception for series sets. --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:38, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Ain't quieter here, have you checked my centijimbos? You are not going to win on your interpretation of the navbox guidelines as the only possible way to do things, and at any rate, they are not "policy" but they are still GUIDELINES. So drop the stick and go fix something that needs fixing, there are tons of bloated, poorly designed navboxes that are languishing where no one cases about them. You are nitpicking some minor navboxes half to death. Now let's go back to the consolidated discussion and keep it there. Montanabw 18:19, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

/me applauds this answer --Tsaag Valren (talk) 19:41, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Popular Cultural References to White Horses

Couldn't seem to respond to your undoing of my addition to the white horse wiki directly at the location of the edit/notification, so this will have to do. I did add a popular references topic to the Talk page of the article itself but I wasn't sure that you'd see that. I'm sure you'll get a notification that I undid your undoing.

As I say on the Talk page of the article in question, I'm not quite sure how such a well-known popular reference to white horses in mysticism constitutes "a stretch," but whether you're a fan of heavy metal or not I dare say that genre and its associated imagery do indeed qualify as bona fide elements of popular culture. Yes, almost without a doubt, Ozzy Osbourne and similar acts use such imagery for the shock value. The fact remains that fans (i.e. "popular culture") eat it up and many take it very seriously. Even among those who simply like the sound of the music, the reference in the Mr. Crowley lyrics is well-known. Must I provide a demographic counting of heavy metal fans to make the point? If so, I call on you or the previous authors to similarly support your choice of "references in popular culture."

At any rate, I have duly provided a reference to the "official" lyrics of the song from the Ozzy Osbourne website (not sure how much more "official it gets. . . ) as well as a wiki link to Mr. Crowley's wiki page, Mr. Crowley being the subject of the song in question and rider of said white horse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikerrr (talk • contribs) 21:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

The entire paragraph is nothing but popcruft that is apt to attract 10,000 more examples and I have removed all of the examples. See WP:TRIVIA Montanabw

The best way to handle "cultural references" in articles is to require third party discussion of the connection of the reference to the actual subject of the article. Thus - say, for King Henry II of England - you have references to plays/literature that Henry appears as a character in, but they are referenced not to the original work but to other works that discuss the actual significance of Henry appearing as a character. This really cuts down on the "cruft" while still preserving important cultural influences. Thus - if it's important to Crowley's influence that he was depicted riding a white horse - there should be articles (not by Crowley) discussing that symbolism. And if Ozzy's usage of Crowley riding a white horse in one of Ozzy's songs is significant, it will be discussed in articles written about Ozzy's songs (and not written by Ozzy or his family). Ealdgyth - Talk 22:08, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

If ALL references are deleted, fine. Otherwise, I maintain that the Ozzy reference was a valid as the rest and call on whomever is responsible for those to defend them equally. Mikerrr (talk) 23:27, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Well, I deleted all the video games and pretty much anything from the mid-20th century forward, if that will work for you. I would agree that Ozzy has greater significance than some video game. But let's discuss it over there, not here. Montanabw 00:48, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Deletion of my section on "Therapy dogs"

214.15.218.74 (talk) 10:49, 16 February 2014 (UTC)Since you insist on deleting my entire section from the article instead of editing the part you feel is pure POV I thought I would ask you how it is you feel you have the right to do so? It's akin to someone creating an article on Cars and another person creating a subsection on Tires and you deciding that Tires have nothing to do with cars and then deleting the whole section.

Thanks and have a nice day.

To the previous IP editor - it would be helpful if you named the article so that other editors can follow the discussion. Having said that, it would be much, much better if the discussion was raised on the Talk page of the article rather than here. That way, you are more likely to get feedback from those interested in the page - whatever that is!__DrChrissy (talk) 17:49, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Sigh, this is an IP and a new editor both, I suspect. See https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Therapy_dog&oldid=595708809&diff=prev I have repeatedly told this person (I think it's the same person) about WP:BRD and to take it to the talk page, because they have some material that MIGHT be useful to include in the article. But as it sits, it's an unencyclopedic POV rant. DrChrissy, all yours if you want it, I'm tired of trying to apply the cluebat. Montanabw 18:45, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, but no thanks. Have my own problems over at Marius (giraffe)!__DrChrissy (talk) 18:54, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

As you can see from stalking my talk page, it's silly season on wiki. Cabin fever can be an ugly thing... Montanabw 19:09, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

We have the same thing here! I live on the edge of the flooded Somerest Levels which I believe has made the news on your side of the Pond.__DrChrissy (talk) 19:47, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Precious again

galloping support
Thank you for your tireless support and teamwork and for your wonderful sandbox rules for a better world, - repeating: you are an awesome Wikipedian (13 January 2010)!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:40, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Two years ago, you were the 27th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:49, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda! It is truly a "precious" award! Montanabw 19:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

messing around in other people's playpens....

Please see User_talk:CJLippert#payback.3F, and the paragraphs preceding it, and User_talk:Uyvsdi#Whoa.21.21.21_-_re_Category:Squamish, although by the end of the day this will be at anywhere from a CfD to ARBCOM or ANI. The optics here aren't good at all, and indicates to me that somebody's been sharpening axes..... now causing a problem and washing their hands of it glibly.... and so time/energy that should go into article writing/expansion/improvement is now once again going to go to procedural/guideline games....all precipitated by someone unconnected to the articles' subject matter, and oblivious to the on-the-ground realities of same. And now calling on other editors who she's already ignored by overturning the CfD.....and leaving it to me to go enlist other WPCANADA editors to deal with the problem she's re-created, and no doubt will accuse me of "polling" them......the arrogance of all this is breath-taking, IMO.....Skookum1 (talk) 05:17, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm staying the heck out of that one; you and Uyvsdi are both good editors and I am not wanting to take sides between the two of you; my thoughts are that you each have legitimate points, and the bigger problem is too much work and not enough worker bees. That and the drama-mongers who never write articles at all, they just haunt the drama boards across subjects. I've noticed that cabin fever hits[REDACTED] this time of year, every time; February and March are open season on drama around here. I wanna go hibernate! Montanabw 05:53, 19 February 2014 (UTC)