Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lightbreather (talk | contribs) at 20:33, 20 January 2015 (→Welcome!: link). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome!

If you have signed the Kaffeeklatsch Pledge in good faith, Welcome! - and please proceed.

If you have not signed the pledge, please join or start a discussion on the hostess' talk page.

Please introduce yourself.

Please sign your post with four tildes (~~~~).

Hello. I am Lightbreather or "LB". My focus to-date on Misplaced Pages has been gun control, porn (briefly), and articles to-do with women. I am pretty good at finding sources, and for light work, I like to improve source citations using WP:CS1. Lightbreather (talk) 19:00, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi all! I'm Smirkybec, named for a type of Sindy doll from the 1980s. In general I focus on women's histories, and as I'm from Ireland I have a particular interest in Irish women. I really enjoy the history of science, but I have been drawn into histories around WWI, larger Irish histories and more current science topics. I love a challenge of finding resources and citations to get marginalised histories represented! Smirkybec (talk) 20:48, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Welcome, Smirkybec. Your post made me think of one of The Cranberries' song Zombie, which I always thought was about a WWI survivor, but which, according to our WP article, is about the 1916 Easter Rising. Hmmm... I am glad to meet you, and always glad to learn something new. Lightbreather (talk) 22:24, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Oh yes, there would be a very long tradition of song writing about 1916, and independence in general, the history of of Ireland WWI is one that is not well represented or even talked about - although that's changing with the centenary! Looking forward to getting to know you and other contributors :) Should mention that I'm involved in the new Wikimedia Community Ireland, and I'm doing a PhD looking at the role of Misplaced Pages in relation to GLAM organisations. Smirkybec (talk) 23:05, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I'm LadyofShalott. I've been editing since 2006, and an administrator since 2008. I have a concern with the pledge. It says that transwomen are welcome, but then insists that people identify with she/her pronouns. I am cisgendered myself, but I think that some who may identify as transwomen may prefer gender-neutral pronouns. LadyofShalott 16:59, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Welcome, LadyofShalott. I share your concern to some degree. I will start a separate discussion and after we get 10 or 12 members, maybe we can take some sort action on tweaking the wording of the pledge to be as inclusive as possible while at the same time assuring (as much as is possible) that the klatsch feels safe... much as one might expect at a spa or a domestic violence shelter. Lightbreather (talk) 19:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

But why risk at all making transwomen feel unwelcomed? It seems to me that saying you identify as a woman should be enough. Period. Keeping non-inclusive pronouns as a requirement for discussion here - as it is now - is exclusionary. What point is there in waiting to correct that? LadyofShalott 19:34, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that it will make transwomen feel unwelcome. I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I'd like to take it slow. I guess it's worth asking directly: Do you believe that asking a transwoman to identify as "she" for the sake of joining a women-only group on Misplaced Pages is offensive? (I do mean for this group to be for women only and not just any person who doesn't identify as a man - which isn't exactly the same thing.) I may very well be less educated about this than you, and gender can be a controversial topic, so patience, please, and let's take it slow.

FYI, I started a section below for this discussion, which I'd like to get more viewpoints on. Lightbreather (talk) 20:18, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Also, the orientations need to be inclusive. Not all are straight or lesbian. Bisexual erasure is a thing, and some women are asexual. We could just say "of any sexual orientation" rather than attempting to list all possibilities. LadyofShalott 19:45, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

 Done I agree that's an improvement, thanks. Lightbreather (talk) 20:08, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi there. Thanks for creating this. I mostly work on articles related to women's soccer and the Women's football/soccer task force but do get involved in other articles related to women, human rights, and music from time to time along with other random updates I come across. This seems like a great potential project to work on for Women's History Month coming up in March. Hmlarson (talk) 20:04, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Welcome, Hmlarson. Please sign the pledge. Thanks.

Yes, I think a group like this could be useful for women who work on that. Not so much to develop articles, but as a refuge if related discussions in other spaces get overrun by testy men (such as happens at the GGTF-related articles). Lightbreather (talk) 20:18, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Part 1 of the Klatsch Pledge (I am a woman)

Concern has been expressed about requiring klatsch members to set their user "Internationisation" preference to "She edits wiki pages." However, I know that some editors who identify as men are members of the Category:Female Wikipedians.

My number one goal in creating this group was to have a safe place for women Misplaced Pages editors to get together. By "safe" I mean free of worry that men ("cisgender" men and persons who do not identify as women, who together make up 85% to 90% of WP editors) will overrun discussions with their advice, criticism, and explanations. By "women" I mean persons who were born with female genitalia or who identify as women.

I do not believe we can assume that all women who set their Internationalisation preference to "I prefer not to say" have done so because gender is irrelevant to them as an editor. Some have done so to avoid sexist and sometimes hostile treatment. I did so myself for a time, but I reached a point where I wanted to "come out" as a woman editor - to be, if not proud, at least unafraid. I believe some women editors feel the same way, and that's why I created this group.

So my question is, should we keep the preference "She edits wiki pages" as one of the "I am a woman" pledge criteria? Lightbreather (talk) 20:01, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Cisgender or trans-woman

My first impulse on that distinction was simply, "I self-identify as a woman." Maybe "I self-identify primarily as a woman" is another plain-English way to say it. This is just the kind of detail that many editors like to consider, so I'm throwing it out there. Also, FWIW, I know my ignorance may be showing, but my question is GF. I am a cisgender, straight, older woman with a bachelor's degree - not in human sexuality - and love and concern for others in my heart, that's all. Lightbreather (talk) 20:44, 17 January 2015 (UTC)