Talk:Aleksandr Dugin - Misplaced Pages

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Sources

Someone deleted all sources from this article including this one:

He is sometimes described as a "notorious apologist of fascism"

Some others:

Beware the rise of Russia's new imperialism, by Robert Horvath, August 21, 2008

His recent interview (Russian) at Echo of Moscow
Another interview (Russian)
“Neo-Eurasianism,” the Issue of Russian Fascism, and Post-Soviet Political Discourse by Dr. Andreas Umland - 6/7/2008
Aleksandr Dugin Eurasia party founder and chief ideologue of the Russian geopolitical school,By Victor Yasmann
Russia’s New—and Frightening—“Ism” By John B. Dunlop
The Great Danger If Russia Stays on the Path It's On, By Andreas Umland

Aleksandr Dugin was amongst the earliest members of the National Bolshevik Party (NBP) and was instrumental in convincing Eduard Limonov to enter the political arena. A relatively small number of hard-line nationalist NBP members, supported by Dugin split off to form the more right-wing, anti-liberal, anti-left, anti-Kasparov aggressive nationalist organization, National Bolshevik Front.

Will United Russia become a fascist party? by Andreas Umland, Turkish Daily News, Tuesday, April 15, 2008

Biophys (talk) 02:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

His quotes

In his 1997 article “Fascism – Borderless and Red,” Dugin hailed the arrival in Russia of a “genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism.”

...by no means the racist and chauvinist aspects of National Socialism that determined the nature of its ideology. The excesses of this ideology in Germany are a matter exclusively of the Germans, ...while Russian fascism is a combination of natural national conservatism with a passionate desire for true changes.

“Waffen-SS and especially the scientific sector of this organization, Ahnenerbe," was "an intellectual oasis in the framework of the National Socialist regime.'”

Dugin called Reinhard Heydrich, an organizer of the Holocaust a “convinced Eurasianist”. Biophys (talk) 14:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

His biography (Russian)

This needs to be translated and included in this article:

Biophys (talk) 03:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the full text from the external site which you included above. I see no evidence the site has released it under a CC-BY-SA compatible free licence so it's inclusion here (or for that matter any full translation) would likely be a WP:Copyvio Nil Einne (talk) 14:05, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Racist antisemite

nothing on this? he hates joos and calls obama monkey, zebra, etc.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mizanthrop (talk • contribs) 20:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Do you have any source for it? Jezebel1349 (talk) 15:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

No he didn't.

208.81.93.65 (talk) 19:50, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Formation of Eurasia Party/Movement

The article by Dunlop states that the Eurasia Party/Movement was officially recognized on May 31, 2001, making the former statement that it was formed in 2002 an impossibility. I've changed this to reflect the date is was recognized, as I do not currently have the sources or information to state when it was formed.

Doctor title

Shouldn't the article be called Dr. Aleksandr Dugin? --188.103.25.226 (talk) 12:38, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Why Communism Portal?

Why is Dugin in the Communism Portal? That does not make much sense as he seems to be Fascist, sees himself as Fascist and has not much to do with Communism. 141.20.180.71 (talk) 15:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

A Few Thoughts On This Article

As someone whose read Dugin's work for couple years and found much of it insightful(but lately also find him to be a mad man that will do more harm than good to the good aspects of his philosophy), I find this article biased against him and completely unhelpful because you only get to see him as a madman by his detractors. It's kind of sad his eurasianist groupies haven't fixed this yet.

I think it may(and I may be wrong) be useful to completely separate his biography describing activities of his life from his intellectual biography. At the very least, I think "Formation of the Eurasia Movement" should be changed to "Later activism and political views". There should be more links to English languages articles that give general gist of his thought. I think criticism of his thought should be separated and given it's own section.

I think there needs to be a section on exactly what ties he has with the Kremlin and with Putin. Mark Sleboda was one of the translators for his "Fourth Political Theory" book(another one was Nina Kouprianova) and he tweeted out the following claims: https://twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/453107676139225088

"Dugin has never actually met or talked to Putin and Putin has never once mentioned Dugin"
"Surkov specifically kept Dugin at bay"
- BTW, Dugin constantly attacks Surkov on social media.
- Of course, Putin actually had Surkov fired and brought him back some months later.
"Truth is that Dugin has never learned to stop being radical fringe philosopher and to play with the establishment."

Putin seems more enamored with guys like Konstantin Leontiev, Konstantin Pobedonostsev, Ivan Ilyin than Dugin. I think it's ridiculous that there are those trying to see Dugin as the key to Putin's brain. Putin has never spoken about Dugin publicly.

208.124.113.121 (talk) 00:50, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

No, according to many commentators he strongly influenced political decisions on the top. My very best wishes (talk) 15:07, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
- The most frequent combination of words in Dugin’s rhetoric is fifth column that is modern enemies of the people allegedly guilty of the destruction of the Soviet Union, the propagation of gay life style, the humiliation of Russians in Ukraine, sanctions against Russia, etc. The rest of people like Dugin himself, according to his rhetoric, are warm and fuzzy, and the fifth column alone does not let them live their lives the way Dugin plans out. The fifth column prevents Russia from starting a Ukrainian-Russian war, American-Russian war, European-Russian war and, by doing so, prevents Russia from becoming a great empire. It is a very simple and handy philosophy invented by Dugin for stupid Russian politicians alone. Psychiatrick (talk) 13:38, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

What is Dugin's point with Alcohol ?

What says Dugin about Russias manifest drug and alcohol problem ? Is he an abstinentist ? Can anybody tell something about Dugins statements to this major problem in Russia ? Thanks, --93.104.177.12 (talk) 21:16, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Your question based on a stereotype of Russians is a little funny. Dugin says almost nothing about drug and alcohol problem of Russians like nothing about bruins wearing a ushanka, telogreika, valenki and playing a balalaika when walking along the Red Square in Moscow. But somehow he says a lot about the United States as the major problem in Russia. It is a little funny too. Psychiatrick (talk) 12:49, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Some results

Some results of the struggle for the Russian world inspired by Dugin and Igor Girkin: Psychiatrick (talk) 11:31, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

The same ideas from the lips of Russian politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky

The Russian video is about how the Russian authorities want Russia to become a great-power empire. I consider the policy of imperialism as dangerous not to Europeans and Americans but to Russians themselves. It is Russians who will have to work hard to produce armament for implementing their own policy of imperialism. Thus, constructing the empire can challenge individuals and peoples not only outside but also inside Russia. Now Russia seems to be the last in the world to become a great-power empire. --Psychiatrick (talk) 13:49, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Why primary sources used

I used primary sources such as articles by Dugin since his ideology was poorly analyzed in secondary sources. First, there is nothing interesting to researches in his ideology, which is reactionary and anti-Western and considers the Western democracies (Europe, the USA) as the major threats, troubles and enemies to Russia while the Eastern dictatorships (North Korea, China) are considered as the highest good and the best friends to Russia, according to his ideology. Second, nobody in North Korea and China knows about Dugin and his ideology that these countries are the best friends to Russia. They have their own heroes and values that are too different from those used and proposed by Dugin. He does not understand that. Psychiatrick (talk) 12:45, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

The last Chinese warning to Putin

Such an impoliteness as putting his coat on Chinese First Lady Peng Liyuan can cost to Putin half the territory of the Russian Federation. Putin should be warned about the difference of cultural values in the West and those in China if he does not want to let China have Siberia and Caucasia. Psychiatrick (talk) 13:13, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

This is a talk page for improving Dugin's article. Please stick to the topic at hand. Thanks.

--Jprg1966 09:01, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Name

The page title is "Aleksandr" but the infobox and his lede say "Alexandr." They should match. --Jprg1966 08:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Labeling someone as simply FASCIST!!! ?

The one source which is Allan Ingram Professor of English at Northumbria University, in Newcastle calls Dugin some kind of Neo-Fascist. I put up the more relevant source by A. James Gregor who is Professor of Political Science at the University of California, Berkeley, who in turn asked the question "Fascist?" but disregarded the label as overtly simplistic labelling and not really appropriate.

I know that it is in former Soviet Republics a common practice to label everything and everyone as FASCIST for this and that. Still one source is not enough to just label someone a FASCIST you require need Neutrality that means that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represents all significant viewpoints WP:WEIGHT and opinions are no stated as facts WP:YESPOV, WP:NOTOPINION. But, when a statement is a fact (a piece of information about which there is no serious dispute) it should be asserted without prefixing it with "(Source) says that ...", and when a statement is an opinion (a matter which is subject to dispute) it should be attributed to the source that offered the opinion using inline-text attribution - WP:ASSERT. Also avoid falling in the trap of WP:SYN i.e. Synthesis of published material that advances a position.

The problem of herr Dugin is that he is a Maverick of political theory, a bit like the marxist counterpart Slavoj Žižek. Herr Dugin has dipped his toe everywhere and to define a Political syncretist as simply BOLSHEVIK or FASCIST is not really the right course to take. I know that the are great fears, especially among many Eastern Europeans, of people ranting nationalist ideas about the rights of Greater Russia. Still it should not effect correct encyclopedic writing and remembering a neutral and balanced tone. All the best, No Source - No Valid Source (talk) 13:39, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

No, there's quite a number of sources there.Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:52, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Here's some more:

Also have a look at this 1998 interview in Polish quarterly "Fronda": I'm waiting for Ivan the Terrible (in Polish only, sorry). Dugin explains how Russian idea of state differs from the Western one (translation is mine): "In Russian Orthodox christianity a person is a part of the Church, part of the the collective organism, just like a leg. So how can a person be responsible for himself? Can a leg be responsible for itself? Here is where the idea of state, total state originates from. Because of this Russians, because they are orthodox, can be the real fascists as opposed to imaginary Italian fascists such as Gentile or their hegelian. The true heglism is Ivan Peresvetov - the man who in 16th century invented the oprichnina for Ivan the Terrible. He was the true creator of Russia nfascism. He created the idea that state is everything, and an individual is nothing". If that's not fascist then I don't know what is... Pawel Krawczyk (talk) 09:31, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

References

Shekhovtsov, Anton (December 2008). "The Palingenetic Thrust of Russian Neo-Eurasianism: Ideas of Rebirth in Aleksandr Dugin's Worldview". Totalitarian Movements and Political Religions. 2009 (4): 491–506.
Shenfield, Stephen (2001). Russian Fascism: Traditions, Tendencies, Movements. M.E. Sharpe. p. 190. ISBN 0765606348.

To label Political syncretist like Dugin as simply BOLSHEVIK or FASCIST is not correct. I could just say that the crude trick used in the Dugin article is totally beneath rational discourse - YES IT' S "PLAYING THE NAZI CARD" - http://postimg.org/image/t06j7tou7/ .... Reductio ad Hitlerum. The problem is that we have one-sided sources which are of either poor quality or biased. Stephen Shenfield as the source belongs to the better category of the arsenal used to force through a certain point of view in the Dugin article here. Reading Stephen Shenfield webpage (http://stephenshenfield.net/) it can quite easily be concluded that he is an activist and a partisan source that does not contribute to an balanced and fair evaluation of Mr. Dugins thinking. So once again - Neutrality that means that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represents all significant viewpoints WP:WEIGHT and opinions are no stated as facts WP:YESPOV. Lets get started, shall we? No Source - No Valid Source (talk) 22:27, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

The bigger problem of having fair review of this article is the Eastern European gang (of some Polish and Ukrainian political piranhas) that hang around this[REDACTED] article hindering any possibility of encyclopedic writing. Yes, yes I understand your anguish and fears in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe. I'm myself of good Polish descent and name and furthermore living as a neighbor to Russia. I also know that my family went away from those Eastern regions before all civilized layers society of where either killed, purged or force out. And presently there is very little hope of the present-day reign of corruption and the coma of higher-culture (incl. moral statesmanship and academic culture) will rise up there any day soon -not even with some $ etc. from US and Sancho Panza (EU). What Stalin sowed you now reap in the Eastern parts. Like the Serbs, don't emotionalize and fetishize hate & history -it doesn't lead to good clear thinking. Your Polish friend who also knows about the good old things back home! Wishing well No Source - No Valid Source (talk) 23:03, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Jesus Christ, how many times, and with how many different accounts, are you going to do this? Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:53, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

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