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Grand Kartal Hotel in 2007 A fire at a ski resort hotel (pictured) in Kartalkaya, Turkey, leaves at least 76 people dead and 51 others injured. A series of attacks by the National Liberation Army in the Catatumbo region of Colombia leaves more than a hundred people dead. A ceasefire agreement suspends the Israel–Hamas war, involving the release of Israeli hostages and Palestinian prisoners. Two Supreme Court judges are assassinated in a shooting at the Supreme Court of Iran in Tehran. Ongoing: Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline Sudanese civil war timeline Recent deaths: Linda Nolan Tommy Brown Diane Langton Simon Townsend Claire van Kampen Nello Altomare Nominate an article view — page history — related changes — edit

Suggestions

July 5

July 4

Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest

• Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: I do not think this has ever been nominated for ITN before, so I figured I would nominate it since it is always in the news when it happens (especially in recent years since Joey Chestnut has been winning and setting records). Andise1 (talk) 05:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• Nice try, but DYK is thataway! Stephen 05:11, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose where's the encyclopedic value? The Rambling Man (talk) 07:32, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose – Awesome nomination, and a very interesting contest. However, I don't believe that this contest has as much international mainstream interest as The Boat Race or Japanese baseball. Moreover, there isn't actually much prose in this article about the 2018 event. Generally, I would prefer to feature an article on the specific event on the main page, rather than an article about the 50-year old series of contests. Lastly, there are some uncited paragraphs, including a in the Controversies section. I'd be happy to support this nomination had there been a high-quality, well-sourced article on the 2018 event specifically, exemplifying Misplaced Pages as a great source of information on a variety of interesting topics. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:54, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the competition article has no prose update, and Chestnusts has too many missing refs. Personally I see NO difference between a record number of "world cup goals" and a record number of eaten hotdogs. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:15, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess hospitalized after being exposed to Novichok

• Nominated by Count Iblis (talk · give credit)

 Count Iblis (talk) 21:44, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

• Wait - article is not ready and we need to see what, if any, connections there are to the Skripal attack outside of the nerve agent deployed before casting judgement on significance. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:28, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
• Yes, wait Until we're really sure we can blame those evil Russians. Otherwise this is just another (attempted?) poisoning. HiLo48 (talk) 23:31, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
• Strong support major news, will blow up when the world wakes up in the morning Openlydialectic (talk) 00:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Wait – Developing. Sca (talk) 01:00, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment it's in the news here, but the article is very light. There shouldn't be any rush to post this. Interesting no one is stamping their fists frothing at the mouth screaming about minimum deaths - maybe that's just a lame excuse to keep "us-centric" stories of the main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• What is less interesting is your interminable conspiracy theories about keeping US stories off the MP. Give it a rest, please. Black Kite (talk) 07:30, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• Conspiracy theories? Nah, just pointing out bias. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:10, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• Wait - Not opposed, but the article is developing and the blurb so far links to neither article. If news reveals that the Russian government is behind it, refer to it as an allegation, but as HiLo said we should wait until we're sure about that. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 01:41, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment The proposed blurb must be changed to use UK English spelling, and say "hospitalised", not "hospitalized". The victims are British nationals. The article linked to says "hospitalised". HiLo48 (talk) 01:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• ”ize” is acceptable in British English and is preferred by the OED. Pawnkingthree (talk) 08:45, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose it's now becoming common place to be drugged by nerve agents in the UK, these two non-notable individuals will hopefully recover (as the previous more notable pair did) and we will get the usual denials from Russia, the usual obfuscated crap from the laboratories and the usual sabre-rattling from BoJo et al. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:34, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Ah, there's one. Blaming the evil Russians. Was waiting for that. HiLo48 (talk) 07:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh, so Novichok's just lying round the streets of the UK?? Please. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:53, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

RD: Harry M. Miller

• Nominated by HiLo48 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Canley (talk · give credit) and JackofOz (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: New Zealand born Australian promoter, publicist and media agent. Very well known to a couple of generations of Australians, including for serving time for fraud. HiLo48 (talk) 02:52, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support Could use a couple more inline references but otherwise good.  Nixinova  T  C  03:35, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose. Needs a couple of references. If those are fixed should be OK.05:15, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

July 3

(Ready) RD: Wang Jian (businessman)

• Updated and nominated by Zanhe (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Chinese billionaire. Accidental death is reported worldwide. Zanhe (talk) 23:12, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support Nice work. This is good to go, IMO.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:22, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support Well referenced.  Nixinova  T  C  03:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Richard Swift

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Article is not quite there but not too far off. Masem (t) 18:36, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose in its current state unless there are significant improvements. I have started add sources to help the nominator in the effort.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:09, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Support I believe I have fixed the sourcing. Someone uninvolved co-sign so we can post this. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 07:55, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

It took six hours of work. Not to be vain but I would appreciate the poster give me credit.--- Coffeeandcrumbs

• Originally opposed. Now support thanks to good work from Coffeeandcrumbs. Capitalistroadster (talk) 03:21, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support in good shape now thanks to Coffeeandcrumbs. Teemu08 (talk) 14:34, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support Good work, Coffee. Spengouli (talk) 16:09, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support fully referenced. Great work. -Zanhe (talk) 23:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
• Posted. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:04, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

July 2

(Closed) Ongoing: Wimbledon

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Nominated by torqueing (talk · give credit)

• Oppose - ongoing is not intended for sporting events, or else it could conceiveably be constantly filled by them. There are but two exceptions to this rule - the Olympics and the World Cup - and these are exempted due to their sheer popularity (look at the last few versions of the Top 25 Report for evidence). Wimbledon is not in the same pantheon, and as such I feel it is ill-suited to ongoing. Let us post the winner at the end (which is ITN/R). Stormy clouds (talk) 23:34, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

This is why the World Cup is listed at ongoing. Stormy clouds (talk) 07:48, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Olympics and World Cup have ongoing because of the large number of people interested in (easily in the 100s of millions if not more). Tennis doesn't have the same broad appeal, but we'll certainly post the winners of the final rounds per ITNR. --Masem (t) 02:29, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Well, it's not even the top sports article yesterday Misplaced Pages-wise (even at the Spanish Misplaced Pages!), World Cup aside. Howard the Duck (talk) 03:14, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose not really "just like the FIFA World Cup". The Rambling Man (talk) 07:41, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose normal practice - posting the winners - seems appropriate. There's four tennis majors a year, whereas the Olympics and FIFA World Cup are once every four years. Additionally, the tennis majors tend to struggle to get the prose updates for the finals posting, so I'm pretty sceptical we could justify ongoing status here. --LukeSurl 08:20, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Thailand boys soccer team found alive/rescued

• Nominated by CoatCheck (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Gathering coverage in international media. Hopefully a good news item we can put atop ITN. CoatCheck (talk) 16:54, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment - I don't remember; did we post the cave story when it initially occurred?--WaltCip (talk) 17:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
  • No, we did not. Strikerforce 17:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - The team has been found safe, which is great, but getting them out of the cave system is going to be a complicated process. I think it would be best to wait until the rescue operation is complete. ZettaComposer (talk) 17:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Wait per ZettaComposer. Certainly newsworthy that they've been found alive, but the final outcome has yet to be determined. Strikerforce 17:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Wait. A lot of possibly quite complex rescue work to do yet. Black Kite (talk) 18:59, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Wait – A no-brainer but best to wait – not too long! – 'til it looks like a sure thing. I don't think that necessarily means the rescue operation must be complete first. Developing. Sca (talk) 20:49, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose "many people are coming, we are the first". The real story will break when these kids are rescued. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:59, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Wait Too soon right now, but once more information is available it should be posted. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 22:46, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  What a curious vote. "once more information is available it should be posted"? What? They got lost, they got found. What are you looking for? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:52, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  The rescue operation isn't even finished yet; if we wait, the article we'd link to on the main page would offer the readers with the information they'd be looking for. The context should have made this self-explanatory. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 23:04, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Neutral leaning oppose. I'm trying to see how this is not some kind of tabloid sensationalized news story. What is the long term significance to this? Does it pass the Ten Year Test? All of which said I am delighted that they have been found, just not sure that this feel good story belongs on ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:03, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• support - and wait until we know a few more details. The article looks ok though.BabbaQ (talk) 23:08, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. It is a boys' team, not a boys team. Moriori (talk) 23:55, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose as it's not headline news in most parts of the world. Also would look bad on our part to post this instead of more worthy candidates, like the Capital Gazette shooting (a rare attack on journalists, rather than an "ordinary mass shooting"). SounderBruce 00:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Reply I don't think it's necessary to choose to post one without also posting the other. We can post this and the Capital Gazette shooting, but the merits of that story are to be discussed at their own discussion. The ITN page has moved slowly lately, with some stories that broke in mid-June still on the front page. This story will likely only make it to the main page when they're rescued rather than just being found, so I wouldn't worry about it drowning out devastating stories such the attack on journalists. (I say this in a broader sense regarding debates about whether or not to post shootings or other breaking news stories, acknowledging that the story you're referring to was not posted) Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 01:58, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support maybe it doesn't past the ten-year test, but we post other things that don't, e.g. people won't be talking about Neymar's record transfer once it's broken (which it almost inevitably will be). This is being covered in many venues, which suffices for me. Banedon (talk) 01:36, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support - It has appeared in the news (BBC World News ) every day. Sherenk1 (talk) 03:58, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support Has been in the news regularly in New Zealand and is the main international news today. Could take four months to get them out so no point waiting. Much rarer than the above mentioned shooting and quite interesting (there is talk of training the kids how to dive to get them out). Nice to post a story with a happyish result too. AIRcorn (talk) 05:17, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Reply So, a random incident without casualties involving South-East Asia is "much rarer" than the first attack on journalists in the US since 1992? This is the best case of bias on Misplaced Pages I've seen in a while. And the irony is that just a day ago the In the news category listed the capsizing of a boat in an Indonesian lake...--Adûnâi (talk) 23:16, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

A shooting? In the USA? Is that news? What made that shooting newsworthy to me was that it followed "encouragement" to do just that by some right-wing commentators and politicians, and I actually supported its nomination for that reason. I supported this one too, because it IS in the news, all over the world. HiLo48 (talk) 00:53, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

• Complaining about the consensus on another item doesn't help to establish or disestablish consensus for posting this item. Nonetheless, List of journalists killed in the United States shows that your 1992 claim is completely incorrect (Alison Parker being the most recent murder of a journalist stateside), and the claim regarding regularity was not that journalists are killed in mass shootings in the US with frequency - it was that mass shootings are frequent in America (statistically correct). The only way in which you can find bias using the criteria you have laid out is if you ignore multiple incidents, be incredibly specific with a US-centric item, and grossly generalise the other item. (Indonesia was in the news, so Thailand can't be?) Stormy clouds (talk) 23:23, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oh, and there are 2.6 times as many lives at stake/in jeopardy in relation to this item, which has also attracted far more global media attention. I see no bias here, just consensus of many editors. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support posting a blurb now (alt2 suggested, which contains the wikilinks). This seems to be making worldwide headlines. It sees quite possible their discovery and their rescue could be months apart. I can't see the harm in posting both these events. There's an argument for ongoing, but the period in between is likely to be quite uneventful with nothing much to update the article with. --LukeSurl 08:28, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment As it's the rainy season, they could be there for weeks yet while they are trained how to cave dive out. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:42, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support as per above. It's in the news, which if nothing else, is what this section of the main page is called. WaltCip (talk) 09:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support It's in the news here in Australia, the second item on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation website, just behind a bishop who protected paedophiles. And it's an amazing, positive story, much more amazing and positive than obscene amounts of money being paid for some freakishly tall sports person. HiLo48 (talk) 10:11, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support It seems to have caught the public's attention and is all over the news. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 10:13, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Posted. Sam Walton (talk) 10:24, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment There's something really awkward about the phrasing of "Twelve boys and a man trapped". I think one of the other blurbs would be better. Natureium (talk) 13:14, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Post-posting comment – After learning more about this, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the unsettled nature of the boys' situation. The scuba option looks very perilous, and delays seem likely. Perhaps this will wind up in Ongoing? At any rate, it might help readers realize the realities by inserting "submerged" after "trapped in Thailand’s." Sca (talk) 14:09, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) Rédoine Faïd escapes

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Nominated by Banedon (talk · give credit)
• Updated by 2a01:cb19:877b:fc00:9945:ff2:d431:658b (talk · give credit) and Leaky.Solar (talk · give credit)

• Oppose Not significant; would be better off as a DYK.  Nixinova  T  C  02:40, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose good faith nom. Too run of the mill for ITN. Convicts sometimes escape from prison. Eh. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. We did post the arrest of El Chapo in 2014, as well as his recapturing in 2016 after he escaped again. In my quick search of the archives I didn't see if we had posted his escape. 331dot (talk) 07:54, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

It appears that we did post the escape: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/July_2015#.5APosted.5BEl_Chapo_escapes_prison_again. Spencer 10:39, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose – Guzmán (El Chapo) is internationally known; I don't think Faïd is. True, it's not every day a convict helicopters his way outta prison. But in terms of significance, no. Sca (talk) 13:27, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Sca. I don't think this particular criminal is (in)famous enough for his escape to be posted here. Lepricavark (talk) 16:17, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Strong oppose trivia. DYK would be a good place for this kind of nonsense. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:00, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Good faith, and not an entirely unreasonable nomination; he's among the most wanted French criminals, but I don't have reason to believe he's as influential as El Chapo. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 22:51, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) LeBron James

While I personally believe that this nomination is worthy of being listed, it is very clear that this has reached SNOW status in opposition. Thus, I am closing on those grounds. Strikerforce 15:47, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Nominated by Lelcatz39 (talk · give credit)

• Oppose Sports trades or the like are not really appropriate for ITN. --Masem (t) 01:02, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Yawn. Seriously. What is significant about this? HiLo48 (talk) 01:10, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

It's a bit like 33 year old Maradona changing clubs but not quite as important cause the sport is basketball. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment a little context --LaserLegs (talk) 01:52, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
  • If this trade did exceed the 222 M Euros of that one, that might be something. It didn't. --Masem (t) 02:50, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
    • It's not actually a trade. LeBron was a free agent that left for without nothing in return. I don't think soccer's system of selling players for money is comparable to the basketball's free agency system. Howard the Duck (talk) 02:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
      • It's a player moving from one team to another with some money involved. Whether its from team owners to owners, or owners to players, its the monetary figure that indicates the importance that I would use to judge ITN appropriateness. (And as i understand it, James here broke contract with Cleveland, meaning he's allow forfeit some money owed by Cleveland, weaking the value of this). --Masem (t) 03:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• WP:CBALL. Wait till he actually wins other than silver balls. Howard the Duck (talk) 02:26, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose High profile athlete signs contract for lots of money. In other news the sun is expected to rise in the east tomorrow morning. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose - Full disclosure, I'm a Lakers fan, but come on this is not WP:ITN worthy at all. This deal is no Neymar. Narutolovehinata5 04:32, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Why is this deal no Neymar? Banedon (talk) 04:41, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

What I mean to say was, as internation of a star as LeBron is, his deal is not even near Neymar's deal with PSG or any of a number of other association football deals. That and generally we don't post player transfers on ITN in the first place. Narutolovehinata5 04:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: yes but why is this deal "not even near Neymar's deal"? It's clearly not because of size since USD154 million is pretty close to EUR222 million (more than 50%). Are you saying that basketball is less significant than association football? If so, why is it less significant? Banedon (talk) 05:25, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Precisely. As a basketball fan myself, its worldwide popularity is still nowhere near football's. And even if it was, this kind of news is not WP:ITN worthy anyway. Narutolovehinata5 08:10, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Have any athletes been known to make this much a year? (whether inflation-adjusted or not). Premier League/La Liga/Bundsliga/Serie A/Ligue 1 salaries aren't public knowledge right? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 06:04, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

From what I can tell, salaries in foreign leagues are also foreign knowledge, if those "top-payed athletes in the world" lists are anything to go by. Narutolovehinata5 08:10, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Neymar's wages are reportedly about EUR37m, or $43m pa. Black Kite (talk) 09:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. He had been suggesting he was going to leave especially if Cleveland did not win the NBA Finals. This isn't that shocking. 331dot (talk) 07:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Weak support - James is one of the most significant players of his generation, and his move is big news. On these grounds, I could maybe see it being posted - if Messi left Barca on a Bosman transfer, I would support posting. However, using financial metrics, and the relative popularity of basketball, diminishes this greatly. Basketball is not as significant to our readers as football, and football has bigger deals. If we post on financial grounds, bear in mind that the precedent set would open the door not only for Neymar, but for Kylian Mbappé and Philippe Coutinho too. When it comes to wages, Stephen Curry is apparently on more, along with many football players. However, on sporting significance alone, weak support. Stormy clouds (talk) 08:19, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose would be a great DYK, but certainly of no long-standing encyclopedic value at all, a record which is bound to be beaten in the short term, and posting this just gives a free pass to the next time there's an incremental increase. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:30, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support per LaserLegs. We posted Neymar, so to be consistent we should post this. One possible counter-argument I can see would be that basketball is not comparable to soccer, but I don't see that holding water. From , basketball is the world's second most popular sport, as well as the fastest-growing. The contract is also worth more than 50% of Neymar's. Another possible counter-argument is that while Neymar's was a record, there's no indication that this is one. However $154 million over four years is $38.5 million a year, which is comfortably ahead of Stephen Curry, so even if it's not reported as a record I see no reason it is not a record either. Make no mistake, I don't think Neymar should have been posted, but since we posted that we should post this too to be consistent. Banedon (talk) 09:04, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

That totalsportek.com article is rubbish. It says cricket has the second highest number of fans, but declares Basketball, with fewer fans, to be more popular. That's real Humpty Dumpty use of language. HiLo48 (talk) 09:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Curry is up to $40 million a year now. Stormy clouds (talk) 09:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Bear in mind that EUR222m was only the transfer fee for Neymar. The total deal with wages is worth around EUR450m, so this contract is around 1/3 of that. Black Kite (talk) 09:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - We shouldn't be posting about trades within national sports. WaltCip (talk) 09:27, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

If NBA is a non-international league then so is Neymar's league. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:12, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Are you serious? You can't be serious.--WaltCip (talk) 14:22, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

List of foreign NBA players. NBA has had stars who immigrated from countries like Nigeria (Hakeem the Dream), China (Yao), Argentina, Germany, Spain and others I can't think of cause I don't follow basketball. Ligue 1 has players from different countries too. The French league has teams from France and I think 1 from Monaco, NBA has teams from USA and 1 (used to be 2) from Canada. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:35, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment if you want to affirm this is a "Global Encyclopedia" then fine, if you wan't to stamp your fists insist we're not "USAPEDIA" then whatever, but if you're going to pretend to care about what our actual readers care about, you're going to have to open your eyes. fully 40% of the visitors to the English Misplaced Pages are from the USA and if there is one thing I'm certain few people in America care about it's Neymar getting paid millions to fake injuries for corrupt refs, or four blokes being banned from cricket for some reason or other. If this is a "Global Encyclopedia", that globe INCLUDES the United States. Deal with it. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

That 40% of our readers are from the USA does not mean we get to post trivial stories that the remaining 60% find to be utterly meaningless.--WaltCip (talk) 10:58, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

But we do post trivial stories that the 40% find to be utterly meaningless? Come on Walt, your "America sucks" is showing. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:05, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Not sure where you got that idea from.--WaltCip (talk) 12:08, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Neither of the examples you quote (Neymar and the cricket cheating scandal) were trivial, because they were in the news - and by that I mean the news pages, not just the sports pages - all over the world. Black Kite (talk) 12:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Messis goal record? Ferguson retiring? Honestly, most of the sports records we post (Neymar excepted) NEVER leave the sports pages. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:23, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

I doubt if I'd vote to post those that didn't (unless ITN/R of course), unless they were especially notable. Black Kite (talk) 12:36, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Although I am a big NBA fan myself, basketball-related ITN items should be limited to championships of leagues listed on ITN/R. While free agent changes have large interest and can lead to long-term change within a league itself, unless the process itself leads to a new article, it fails to meet the notability bar. Spencer 10:38, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Neymar was a serious one-off, IMO. Quite apart from the fact that the deal ended up around $450m including wages and add-ons, the reason it was posted is that not only was it a record, but it was such a ludicrous destruction of the previous record (and, including the fee, the biggest sporting contract ever) that it ended up being reported in non-sports sources all over the world. Hence, in the news. Meanwhile, apart from the lower value, this doesn't even appear to be a record. This says that two players called Harden and Curry have previously been awarded bigger contracts (though, of course, I'm no expert here). Black Kite (talk) 10:50, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Snow oppose Agree completely that Neymar was about scale and we should not use that as precedent to post more transfers, which are only going to get larger. Separately, let's just acknowledge here that editors at ITNC lean more international than our population at large. Along with producing a global product, part of the mission is to provide what the readers want. If our readers are overwhelmingly American, there should be some deference to the subjects that interest them. If, hypothetically, Cricket had interest from 50% of persons global and 15% of our readers, while gridiron has interest from 10% of persons globally but 30% of our readers, the right thing to do is post both. ghost 11:25, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Not nearly significant enough for ITN. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 12:10, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose One thing I don't see mentioned: he can't formally sign with the Lakers until July 6, which is why the article hasn't even been updated yet. Zagalejo^^^ 12:57, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose – Pro $port$ factoid. Sca (talk) 13:30, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment The blurb provides little context about what this story is about. Who is "LeBron James"? What is the "Los Angeles Lakers" ? Chrisclear (talk) 13:55, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Factoid: The Lakers started out in Minneapolis, "City of Lakes" – in the days when professional bkb players were paid quite modest salaries. – Sca (talk) 15:32, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Chris: FYI, Minneapolis is in Minnesota. Minnesota is the the United States. The U.S. is in North America, which is in the Western Hemisphere of Planet Earth. Sca (talk) 15:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Sca: I'll ignore the facetious parts of your comments, and instead point out that despite providing that geographic information, you still did not address my two simple questions about "LeBron James" and the "Los Angeles Lakers". Readers of ITN shouldn't have to click on article links to find out who this person is what the "Los Angeles Lakers" is. Chrisclear (talk) 00:46, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@Chrisclear: - blurbs require brevity. The majority of people who read this blurb would be easily able to discern what it is about, and the rest could utilise the links provided to find out, within a matter of seconds, if they wished. The main page is not in a vacuum, so there is no need for meticulous explanation, particularly in relation to globally famous individuals. Stormy clouds (talk) 13:58, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't believe it's so certain that "majority of people who read this blurb would be easily able to discern what it is about". While I agree that blurbs require brevity, but it shouldn't be too much trouble to add "In {name of sport for which 'LeBron james' is famous)" to the blurb to provide context to all readers. "Lebron James" might be a famous individual to people who follow his particular sport, or are from the USA (I assume that's the country in which Los Angeles is located?), but to everyone else he is a nobody. Chrisclear (talk) 14:23, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment for those complaining about the dollar amount vs Neymar, there are NBA salary caps, something the corrupt FIFA has yet to implement. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:05, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support I don't buy into the argument stated above that "60% of our readers find this utterly useless". Basketball is a global game, particularly since the NBA's roster of foreign-born players has significantly expanded over the last decade or so. Lebron James is one, if not the, biggest star in the NBA right now. For the second time in his career, he has made a decision to leave his hometown team (grew up in Akron, remember, just outside of Cleveland) in free agency. While it's not The Decision of 2011, this is very much a newsworthy story. IF we are going to list the winner of golf's U.S. Open on the Main Page (which, by the way, we are now two weeks beyond the end of that tournament and we still have it listed... very much makes us look silly, IMO), we should not ignore a story such as this from the NBA. If you'd like to make the argument that the NBA is only of U.S. interest, as a U.S. league, could you not make the same argument for the PGA Tour? After all, professional golf also has the European Tour and, if I recall, an Asian Tour - for neither of which, by the way, have I ever seen an ITN displayed. (Side note worth considering - As @Zagalejo: points out above, the contract can not be signed, officially, for four days. It's not inconceivable that James could change his mind and NOT leave Cleveland... unlikely, yes, but not impossible.) Strikerforce 14:41, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
  • The comparable fact to the winner of the PGA Tour is who won the NBA Finals, which was posted. In team sports, things like trades and the like are not significant ITN because they happen all the time. --Masem (t) 14:50, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
    • Oh, I would respectfully disagree with that. While one of the four "major" tournaments per year on the PGA Tour schedule, I wouldn't equate the winner of the U.S. Open with the NBA Finals. Not even close. (edit) As to the latter part of your statement, it's not very often that a player of this caliber makes such a move. James is a bonafide superstar, one of the best players on the planet right now. If this were, say, @Masem: signing with the Utah Jazz, okay, I'd agree with your "this happens all the time" contention. The subject being who he is makes this newsworthy. Strikerforce 15:03, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - we aren't going to ITN each NBA player trade. L293D (☎ • ✎) 15:28, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Absolutely no way we should be posting a basketball transfer that isn’t even a record. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:34, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

July 1

(Posted) RD: Shirley Huffman

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Article well sourced and updated --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:22, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support the usual good standard from this nominator. Thanks TDKR Chicago 101. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:01, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support ready for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 23:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:18, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Peter Firmin

• Nominated by The Rambling Man (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Clangers, Bagpuss etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:46, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support. Let's not forget Ivor the Engine. Not sure if all the publications need separate refs (or even one). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose 75%Most of the page is not sourced. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:52, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

• Is that by words, sentences or claims? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:48, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Support Just for the record, I now support posting. Even if already posted, I think that is important to note.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 22:59, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment. In addition to the referencing problems, there is very little about his best-known work with Postgate. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:57, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Coffeeandcrumbs - too much unreferenced text. Aiken D 06:17, 2 July 2018 (UTC) Now support per TRM’s improvements. Aiken D 18:23, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment there you go. Coffeeandcrumbs, Aiken drum. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:04, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support - It was in pretty shoddy shape before, but TRM has brought it up to par. Nice work.--WaltCip (talk) 14:21, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support Good to go. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:41, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support G2G. Very good work improving the article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:23, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. Nice work on the referencing, but my above comment on the content still holds. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  Espresso Addict Feel free to improve the areas you feel are deficient. It's not a stub, or even a start class article. What, exactly, is missing? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

I might be missing something but there seems to be no discussion in the body of the (unreferenced) statement in the lead that "Between them they created a number of popular children's TV programmes, The Saga of Noggin the Nog, Ivor the Engine, Clangers, Bagpuss and Pogles' Wood." The Smallfilms article has much more detail that could be used but is generally poorly sourced. In just one example, the 2014 revival of the Clangers with Firmin & Postgate's son. Espresso Addict (talk) 22:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Okay, you answered your own question. There's other detail that could be added, and indeed, some of it exists a mere article away, that could be copied over with suitable attribution (be my guest). But it's late, I'm done, and if no-one else can be bothered, that's life. Note, this is still good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:24, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 23:15, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Mexican general election, 2018

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Angelgfg12345 (talk · give credit) and TexasMan34 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Tags to be resolved. Preliminary results to be released by the end of 1st July. Sherenk1 (talk) 05:24, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

• Wait until a) official, b) there is a blurb, c) tags are resolved. © Tbhotch (en-2.5). 03:27, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I added a blurb. The main article has an orange tag, and the votes are still being counted as of this writing (though media outlets have called for AMLO already based on exit polls). Davey2116 (talk) 03:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - Tags have been removed. Sherenk1 (talk) 10:36, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Wait Support. I have counted two elections nominated for ITN that were not posted for being nominated too early or with tags. --Jamez42 (talk) 16:09, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support Tags are removed and the election was called, with 75%+ reporting. This was the largest and most violent general election in Mexican history. Undoubtedly notable. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 23:00, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. Still an orange tag under results. We also usually require at least a couple of referenced paragraphs of reactions to the result. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:36, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• The only orange tags are requests for updated vote counts as more votes are counted which should not be a problem soon, but I do agree that an international reactions section would be very helpful. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 00:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support – Highly-notable election in a major country with an anti-establishment type candidate from a non-PRI non-PAN party elected president. If any issues in relevant articles can be addressed with haste, all the better. Master of Time (talk) 01:16, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support, per above. Very notable election, and the articles are in good shape. Davey2116 (talk) 02:37, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support: 92.5% of the votes have been counted, everyone else has conceded, and the lead is 30%. Election article is OK, but the AMLO article might still benefit from a careful style edit. (Not sure about the need for a "reactions" section, though -- an NPOV selection of "phoned & congratulated", "tweeted his/her wishes for every success", etc. There haven't been (m)any negative reactions.) Moscow Mule (talk) 03:12, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support looks ready to me. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:46, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support ready for posting. -Zanhe (talk) 04:51, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 04:56, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

June 30

(Posted) RD: Arvid Carlsson

• Nominated by Zanhe (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Nobel Prize winner. Death announced on June 30. Zanhe (talk) 01:19, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment. Referencing needs attention. There's also big holes in the biography, eg how did he go from University of Gothenburg (1959) to Astra AB (date not specified)? Are any personal details available apart from his having a daughter? Espresso Addict (talk) 01:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@Espresso Addict: I've added more sources and some background about his work at Astra (he was always at Gothenburg after 1959, but collaborated with Astra in the 70s and 80s while working for the university). Also added info about family and awards. -Zanhe (talk) 04:41, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 05:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

June 29

(Posted) RD: Matt Cappotelli

• Nominated by Nikki311 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Former wrestler for WWE. Nikki♥311 03:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Weak support brief but okay. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:53, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD Gudrun Burwitz

• Nominated by Ad Orientem (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Only daughter of Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler. She remained loyal to his memory and largely denied Nazi war crimes and genocide throughout her life. Article is short but not in bad shape and adequately referenced. She died in May but the news was only just announced. Ad Orientem (talk) 17:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Oppose as stale Not a recent death. No need to go out of way to post this death which occured a over a month ago.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 22:02, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

From what I can tell, the German newspaper Bild only reported the death on June 29th, the first report of her death. That does not make it stale for us if the death is only first covered some time after it happens. --Masem (t) 22:59, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Support reconsidered after reading procedure for posting. The article is well-sourced.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:12, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support Short but sourced well. --Masem (t) 23:38, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support - good to go. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:40, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Two more references needed, including a claim about religion. Stephen 01:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Two refs added and I removed the claim about being baptized Protestant though I am not sure that should hold up posting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:05, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 04:14, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) RD: Kwesi Amissah-Arthur

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Nominated by GreatCaesarsGhost (talk · give credit)

• Temporarily oppose Many of the references fail on closer inspection. I tried fix some but I ran into a lot of backward copy right violations in Ghanaian media sources about his death which copy chunks of text from Misplaced Pages making hard to add new sources.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 04:51, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. There's precisely nothing about what he did during his term as Vice-President. Additionally, could someone knowledgeable in this area confirm that the MyJoyOnline & GhanaWeb websites, which support nearly all the text, are reliable? Espresso Addict (talk) 05:09, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Neither website is reliable. Both sites copied from Misplaced Pages for their obits: . I checked some of their past reporting on this person and found similar reverse plagiarism from Misplaced Pages to their articles.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:50, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

June 28

(Closed) Capital Gazette shooting

It's becoming clear that there isn't any consensus to post this. Discussion on the merits of WP:MINIMUMDEATHS can continue on its WP:RFD discussion. Narutolovehinata5 00:56, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Nominated by 2600:387:A:9:0:0:0:76 (talk · give credit)

Capital Gazette shooting. 5 dead, dozens injured. Appears to be a mass shooting event.

• Added an alt blurb, as the newspaper situation is a bit complicated to explain in the short blurb. SounderBruce 21:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose unremarkable event with no long-standing impact at all. Probably needs to be covered by a single sentence in a list somewhere, nothing more. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:39, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support, article looks to be in good shape, well-referenced with no glaring errors. -- Tavix 21:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support per Tavix. Mass shooting, article is ready. Lepricavark (talk) 21:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:MINIMUMDEATHS, this occurred in the United States, which is prone to shootings, in addition the death toll is too low to warrant an ITN post. Kirliator (talk) 21:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kirliator and the TRM, no long-term impact and low death toll. Python Dan (talk) 21:45, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose at the moment Unremarkable run-of-the-mill US mass shooting on the face of it, but some comments by political figures may make this more newsworthy as it develops. At the moment, though, no, it's clearly not ITN-worthy. Black Kite (talk) 21:47, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support It's in the news with a decent article. MINIMUMDEATHS is ridiculous, and is not a real WP policy. Davey2116 (talk) 22:09, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

@Davey2116 WP:MINIMUMDEATHS isn’t an official policy, but it does provide enough evidence to show what kinds of disasters get posted onto ITN and which do not. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 22:12, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Actually it doesn't, it's based on a random sampling of postings gathered by a single editor over a brief period of time, and does not in any way aggregate the long history of postings at ITN. Further, it flies in the face of WP:ITN#Purpose. Oh well. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:04, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per the “shootings in the United States” bia. Shootings in the United States are far too common, and often times set a dangerous standard on what gets posted to ITN. I will not interfere with future impact per WP:CRYSTALBALL, but I will state this: shootings were the fatality count is in the single-digits will almost certainly never get posted to ITN. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 22:17, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Isn't the newspaper owned by Tronc? Apparently owned by The Baltimore Sun, which is owned by Tronc. If that is the case, we need to fix this in the article first.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:18, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Fixed and added corporate response.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Is it news that DT says he's praying for journalists? – Sca (talk) 22:21, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose not ITN worthy right now, given the death toll is only in the single digits. Tillerh11 (talk) 22:27, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Comment The proposed blurbs are unclear. In what country did this event occur? Chrisclear (talk) 22:47, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• After a jolly past couple of days of beating cricket bats against American editors for daring to nominate the retirement of some judge in some court somewhere, this is just what ITN/C needs is a rousing discussion on the clockwork brouhaha that is gun violence in the United States. Absolutely wonderful.
• Oppose per WP:MINIMUMDEATHS.--WaltCip (talk) 22:58, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose In addition to the fact that this is an unfortunately but oft repeated gun tragedy in the US, it is getting coverage bias as all the outlets I spot checked are arguing this as a threat to journalism and the like. There's no indication this was an international terrorism act, though I'd reconsider once the authorities (who have the perp in custody) learn more. --Masem (t) 23:04, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support' per WP:MINIMUMDEATHS a made up non standard which is utterly worthless and has no value whatsoever, and per WP:ITN#Purpose which actually does have value. Easily as significant as some people killed in a Venezuelan night club, or a prison, or whatever unsafe building burns down in Venezuela next month. Come on. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:07, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• (edit conflict) x ad nauseum Oppose Sorry, but absent something that adds to the notability of this tragedy, a death toll of five is not enough for ITN. Nor is that a US specific observation. If this had occurred in the Vatican or Buckingham Palace, I'd probably support. But violent crime is an unhappy occurrence all over the world. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:07, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Mass shootings are routine in the United States. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:13, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Pile on Oppose there are a number of problems with this nomination, but the main two that stand out: the article is not in in the best condition, and the fact that the death toll is far too low to warrant an ITN posting as the writer of the MINIMUMDEATHS “policy” states “5 or even 10 deaths is insufficient.” This is nothing more than yet another minor shooting in the gun-loving nation known as the United States. SamaranEmerald (talk) 23:17, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Lets just be clear, so I'm gonna put in bold caps and swear: THERE IS NO MINIMUM DEATHS THAT'S MADE UP BULLSHIT USED PRIMARILY TO KEEP "US-CENTRIC" STORIES OFF THE MAIN PAGE -- IT'S NOT A POLICY IT'S A USER SPACE ESSAY AND IT HAS NO VALUE. You're welcome. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:19, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
    • I don't wish to comment on the merits of this posting, but I agree that MINIMUMDEATHS is inappropriate to cite. Either it should be made an official guideline/policy, or we shouldn't cite it as one. 331dot (talk) 23:23, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
      • I've made a submission at WP:RFD regarding it. While I'm sure the editor was acting in good faith, I don't believe it belongs in the WP namespace. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - five deaths simply doesn't meet the threshold of notability required for ITN, especially considering the extenuating circumstances - the frequency of mass shootings in the states. Hence, I have to oppose. On a side note, WP:MINIMUMDEATHS is not "policy", and should not be considered thusly, despite the fact that it is an interesting and useful catalogue of the seemingly arbitrary thresholds applied at ITN through time. Please do not cite it as a rationale for a !vote. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:40, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support This is in the news here in Australia, packaged with observations about the increasing encouragement by conservative politicians and others to do nasty things to journalists. It's the latter that makes this globally newsworthy. HiLo48 (talk) 23:47, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support Global news, horrible, and it seems "newsier" because it happened to a newspaper.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose minor shooting, would you nominate this if it occurred in another country? 174.231.136.94 (talk) 23:51, 28 June 2018 (UTC)— 174.231.136.94 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Yes, I would if the news was getting international coverage.---Coffeeandcrumbs 23:55, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• • I forget the WP tag for this, but it's worth noting that this is this IP editors first edit. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support This is news that is getting international coverage!

In U.K., The Independent: "Maryland shooting: Capital Gazette staff share harrowing messages after gunman opens fire in Annapolis newspaper building"

In Australia, The Mercury: "Multiple people dead in US newspaper office shooting"

In Canada, The Toronto Star: "Five dead, many injured in shooting at Capital Gazette newsroom in Annapolis, Maryland"

In Germany, Stuttgarter Zeitung: "Schüsse in US-Zeitungsredaktion - Mehrere Tote"

I could go on with newspapers from every developed or developing country in the world. ---Coffeeandcrumbs 23:55, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

In New Zealand, Television New Zealand: "Details on Maryland newspaper gunman: white male believed to be armed with shotgun"

In Italy, Corriere della Sera: "Sparatoria in Maryland, assalto alla redazione di un giornale. La polizia: «Cinque morti, fermato un sospetto»"

In Spain, El País: Tiroteo en un periódico de Maryland, en imágenes

In France, France 24: États-Unis : au moins cinq morts dans une fusillade dans un journal d'Annapolis ---Coffeeandcrumbs 00:11, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Getting international coverage is not a requirement nor necessarily supportive prove that an ITNC should be posted, though does show that an event has more than just local interest. --Masem (t) 00:14, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I should mention that there have been many nominations on this board that have received minimal coverage that ended up getting posted, whilst ones with “widespread international coverage” that were nominated but were not posted amongst various reasons. Kirliator (talk) 00:19, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose expect this to not be resolved like most US shootings do, it will also be forgotten within the next week or so like that YouTube Headquarters shooting awhile back.− 70.62.255.238 (talk) 00:01, 29 June 2018 (UTC)— 70.62.255.238 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • I forget the WP tag for this, but it's worth noting that this is this IP editors first edit. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
    • @LaserLegs: {{subst:Single-purpose account}}?  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  00:21, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Harlan Ellison

• Nominated by Challenger l (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Moscow Mule (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Orange tags for sourcing needed in many sections - so it does need a proper working-on Challenger l (talk) 19:59, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Too much unreferenced content. Please ping me when you have referenced the article, and I will reconsider. Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:29, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose As noted, this is ways away from being front page material, which is a shame. --Masem (t) 22:42, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Parts of this article are well referenced. However, significant parts aren't most notably the works section which is lengthy. Capitalistroadster (talk) 21:09, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - referencing is inadequate for the main page at present. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:22, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
• Ping – Is the article looking any better? The orange boxes are still in place (it's not for me as an involved editor to remove them, I don't think), but all the individual "citation needed" tags have been addressed. Moscow Mule (talk) 23:34, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

@Moscow Mule: it is tons better but the Awards need to be sourced. This might help, but that's really the only thing I see at this point. Good job. --Masem (t) 23:53, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words & encouragement. All the awards are referenced now, unless something's slipped through. Moscow Mule (talk) 06:53, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support This is decently sourced now - yes, good job. Marking for attention. Black Kite (talk) 14:49, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support indeed, concur with Black Kite. Good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:54, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Posted (even though I was involved, will vouch for improvements and clear importance) --Masem (t) 15:31, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Big thanks to Moscow Mule and everyone that helped this along Challenger l (talk) 17:19, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Rob Hiaasen

• Updated and nominated by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk · give credit)

 --- Coffeeandcrumbs 08:10, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose, article was created less than two hours ago. Nothing is stopping it from being turned into a redirect or being deleted at AfD. It would be best if this nomination was withdrawn. Abductive (reasoning) 08:20, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Why should I withdraw the nomination? IMO, the article is well-sourced. Can you point to any particular problems? I will be sure to address them.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 08:49, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - Notable upon death.--WaltCip (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Is there an issue with the contents of the page? Please point it out. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. If you believe the subject is not notable I invited to nominate for AFD. Otherwise, your !vote is moot and irrelevant. The person has an article and recently died. Therefore qualifies for inclusion per this RFC.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 11:16, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't think he's notable, to be honest. Editors of newspapers can be notable, but they generally have some other claim to fame or are nationally well-known. Mr Hiaasen, it appears, did not. I don't think his single short story in an anthology helps much, either. I'm not going to AfD it because I'm interested in what others think. Black Kite (talk) 14:07, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• Seems like a pretty clear WP:VICTIM case. We need "significant coverage" in RS for a BLP aside from his killing. ghost 16:01, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
• Comment this happens every time there is an RD nom for a newly created article. There is no requirement that an article not be new for notability. None. That's made up. If you have a problem with this article vs WP:N then take it to AFD. Opposing on notability grounds is worthless and should be ignored as a meaningless waste of time. Don't like it? Head over to WT:ITN and propose a change. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:23, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment As discussed previously at ITN talk, posthumously-created articles should not be opposed for that reason for RD. As concluded in that discussion, and as Coffeeandcrumbs and LaserLegs note above: if you oppose it on the grounds that the subject is not notable, the appropriate venue is AfD, not here. In my view, the subject is notable enough for an article, so support. Davey2116 (talk) 03:51, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Discussed, yes, but there was a clear lack of consensus. The RD RFC removed the elevated level of significance that exceeded WP:N, but said nothing about assuming notability itself. If an article is AfD'ed, it cannot be considered for ITNC, but the inverse (that anything not nominated is presumed to have met WP:N) is not supported by policy or discussion in the RfC. On the contrary, there is a clear advantage to discussing WP:N at ITNC, as it does not hold up the nom as an AfD would. Requiring such discussion to occur at AfD is a clear violation of WP:BURO. ghost 13:48, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:10, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Polarizing. Outcomes like this mean that people will be tempted to take such nominated articles to AfD to prevent them from being posted. Again, I urge people to not nominate weak cases such as this one. Abductive (reasoning) 06:22, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

It was certainly tempting to go to AFD for this article just to stop this from being posted. Of course, I'm aware this constitutes a WP:POINT...--WaltCip (talk) 11:50, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, the same admin who posted it bumped it 5 minutes later. Seems like he was making a point of his own. ghost 14:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Did you mean 5 hours?--- Coffeeandcrumbs 02:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) Women Disobey

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Updated and nominated by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Another Believer (talk · give credit)

• Support The article is a bit short--please flesh it out. The fact that world-famous Sarandon got arrested, alongside a congresswoman and over 500 attendees, makes it notable/newsworthy.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:57, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose.--WaltCip (talk) 14:28, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose trivial. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Looks like a yuge number of arrests over one protest. Plus a congresswoman and a world-famous actress--no small potatoes!Zigzig20s (talk) 16:51, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Protests against teapot dictators in the Middle East dwarf the size of this protest on a regular basis and do not get posted. This didn't even make the front page of the New York Times. This isn't even small French fries. This is a total nothingburger.--WaltCip (talk) 19:42, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

@WaltCip, Forgive me if I am not convinced by this argument since you voted against The Times front page article of that day "Per WP:MINIMUMDEATHS." @TRM, this is clearly #OPPOSEALLAMERICANNEWS and you are not even trying hard to hide that fact.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 22:19, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

This and that are two different things.--WaltCip (talk) 23:33, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

"@TRM, this is clearly #OPPOSEALLAMERICANNEWS and you are not even trying hard to hide that fact." what are you talking about? I don't even care where this so-called news item took place, it's trivial, not in the news at all, and not worthy of our main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:35, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Blurb does not explain what a "women disobey" is. Chrisclear (talk) 16:10, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Fixed--- Coffeeandcrumbs 22:22, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - no lasting encyclopedic impact, a minor protest compared to those usually posted at ITN. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:34, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support, but maybe this would get more support at DYK. Davey2116 (talk) 03:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support once the article is improved It's a little short and there's a few red links, but it's very notable. The blurb should be a little more specific about what the event was rather than just calling it by name, though. It's not a total nothingburger by any means; I would personally !vote in favour of posting protests with an equal number of arrests in other countries. It's certainly not trivial either. I tend to agree with TRM, but I am not impressed by the one-word response labeling an event that resulted in nearly six hundred arrests (including the arrest of an incumbent member of congress) as "trivial." I am also wholly unimpressed by WaltCip's response which included a total of zero words of rationale. Misplaced Pages is not a vote; rationale is what ultimately determines whether a consensus exists or not. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 22:21, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  It's a trivial number of arrests. And utterly inconsequential. Not newsworthy, nothing short of a trivial stunt to gain publicity. How many of the "arrests" have culminated in prosecutions? In the bad old days of European football, we'd get that many arrests at a single football match. Boring, of no consequence, no encyclopedic value, nothing that a real encyclopedia would even mention in passing. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:32, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  Whether a demonstration results in ten arrests or a thousand arrests does make a difference in how newsworthy the event is; for sitting members of congress to be arrested and detained is not normal. The number of people jailed does make a difference, and arresting members of the legislative branch is definitely more notable than "arrests" in a football match. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 22:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  Sure, it's a publicity stunt, we get it. It's super trivial. This isn't getting close to the main page. Unless it's via the backdoor, trivia DYK route. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:45, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment "Participants in the event were estimated to number in the thousands. ..." Next. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:46, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

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