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    AmYisroelChai

    AmYisroelChai is indefinitely banned from all pages and edits related to post-1932 American politics, broadly construed and may appeal after six months. GoldenRing (talk) 15:37, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning AmYisroelChai

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    MrX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:20, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    AmYisroelChai (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBAPDS
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. January 23, 2019 Assumption of bad faith; broadly discrediting reliable sources.
    2. January 8, 2019 Politicizing disputes.
    3. November 13, 2018 Discrediting reliable sources and a vague legal threat.
    4. November 13, 2018 Assumption of bad faith
    5. August 29, 2018 Assumption of bad faith; politicizing disputes. Warned
    6. August 29, 2018 Politicizing disputes. Struck
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. April 26, 2018 Topic banned
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning AmYisroelChai

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by AmYisroelChai

    regarding

    • aug 29th edit I struck it
    • aug 29 I wasn't wrong his comment was politicized by the media because he is a republican
    • nov 13 The accuser admits to pushing his own views so how could me saying he is be a problem
    • nov 13 RS doesn't mean or at least shouldn't that people who write the articles are automatically reliable if they are writing an opinion article with a blatant bias and I was referring to WP:LIBEL
    • jan 8 I didn't politicize it Soibangla did
    • jan 13 RS is decided by consensus so editors biases can color that consensus and for some reason opinion pieces are considered reliable because they are in an RS. I think I am correct as shown on multiple pages regarding Trump where anything that's anti Trump is added because so called RS say so for example Timeline of Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections where you have a timeline from 1986 - 2014 all before Trump decided to run and before russia could interfere with the election as the election campaign didn't start until at the earliest 2015, for any other page this timeline would have never been added let alone kept as it is idiotic to say that Trump visiting moscow in '87 led to russia interfering in an election nearly 30 years later or the rest of the timeline for example October 15: Trump praises Putin in an interview on CNN. I can find multiple times clinton or obama or any other person praised putin. but since opinion writers wrote articles saying that it gets added.עם ישראל חי (talk) 15:56, 24 January 2019 (UTC) either way i struck the edit
    • as for the edit to death of a nation that doug referenced it was biased opinion which didn't belong as it was written which as you can see from subsequent edits that the correct version is now there.

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning AmYisroelChai

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • This is very clearly not behaviour that is at all helpful to a collaborative project, and I'm thinking that a topic ban from the whole American Politics sphere would be good here, probably for three months. Maybe combined with an indefinite restriction on politicising discussions. Thryduulf (talk) 12:41, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
      • Indeed I wasn't aware of the three-month topic ban mentioned below, which does indeed push me towards a much longer sanction - six months or indefinite with appeal in six months and yes it needs to be broad not just focused on Trump or Russian interference. Thryduulf (talk) 16:46, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
    • Above, MrX mentions a previous one-month topic ban from everything related to Donald Trump or Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, placed in April 2018. However, I note there has been another similar ban since then: a three-month topic ban placed in July 2018, also from everything related to Donald Trump or Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, placed by Doug Weller. (Thryduulf probably wasn't aware of that one, since it wasn't listed.) These short bans don't seem to have improved his practice or attitude any. I noticed his sour discrediting of reliable sources today myself, January 23, 2019, and was inspired by it to renew his DS alert for American politics, just to make sure there isn't a gap in his "awareness" when the previous alert expires in a couple of weeks. His style obviously tends to suck the oxygen out of the talkpages where he posts in that way. Still, I'm not sure whether we need to topic ban him again. That's because I don't know if he is the worst on these pages, and also because Mr X's diffs are rather spread out, going back to August 2018. But if discussion here suggests a topic ban I won't be against it, and I do think it should in that case be indefinite, and from post-1932 American politics in general. It's time to stop piddling with one month and three months, and with Donald Trump and specific issues, for this user. All this micromanagement is very wearying. Bishonen | talk 14:11, 24 January 2019 (UTC).
    • I pretty much agree with Bishonen. When you've had repeated sanctions and chances to change your approach, we've killed enough time giving you chances. Next ban should be indefinite, with an appeal allowed in six or twelve months. GoldenRing (talk) 14:35, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
      • Apologies. my bad. I will say that almost as soon as I did it I regretted making it so narrow and only a month. When I saw this edit Tuesday to Death of a Nation: Can We Save America a Second Time? I wondered if it was time to do something more but got distracted. I think it's probably time to ban him from the area entirely and indefinitely as suggested above. Doug Weller talk 16:59, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
        • Doug, the topic ban you placed on AmYisroelChai in July was for three months — it was the previous ban, that he got in April, that was for one month only. Placed by Sandstein summarizing an AE discussion, I think. Anyway, you have nothing to apologize for, and I'm going to fall in with you: I support an indefinite Tban from post-1932 American politics. Bishonen | talk 17:18, 24 January 2019 (UTC).

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by KidAd

    Appeal declined and withdrawn. Sandstein 11:51, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    KidAd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – TonyBallioni (talk) 19:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    3 month block
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Ian.thomson (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

    Statement by KidAd

    I am aware of the parameters of my block, and I have complied with them. I reverted vandalism on the the page of a journalist and I have been engaging in debate on whether the first lady and second gentleman of California should be referred to as "first partners." These people are not politicians or political appointees, staffers, or public employees. I edited no information about policy or contested political opinions. On the page of the former Buzzfeed journalist, I reverted persistent vandalism with the help of other editors. It was never made clear to me that I couldn't edit the pages of journalists. I have complied with my topic ban thus far and believe that this new block is unjustified. If Ian.thomson wants to insult my competency, let him. KidAd (talk) 21:23, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

    @Ian.thomson: @TonyBallioni: I retract this unblock request and plan on logging out effective immediately. I suggest that you do not waste any more time on this. I initially attempted to comply with the topic ban after my block timed up, but found myself slowly inching back to editing topics that interested me (on the periphery of post-1932 American politics). I stand by these edits as made in good faith and productive, but I understand that they were in violation of the topic ban. I have nothing more to say about this it is not in my best interest to pointlessly argue with administrators. I Thank all involved for your time. I now plan on stepping back without any further excuses and diverting my efforts to other pursuits. KidAd (talk) 23:36, 26 January 2019 copied from KidAd's TP.Icewhiz (talk) 11:29, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Ian.thomson

    I hadn't quite thought that this would end up in front of ArbCom but I'm not sure if/how things would have gone differently. As Nil_Einne pointed out at ANI, in this edit, KidAd should have absolutely realized that he was editing an article that related to post-1932 American politics. Had I spotted that diff before carrying out the block, and had I known that KidAd was going to argue with a straight face that articles about American political journalists and spouses of American politicians and political consultants have nothing to do with American politics, I'd've just gone with an indef. I simply can't imagine simultaneous competence and good faith in the face of that (un)reasoning, just one or the other at most. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:10, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by Innisfree987

    • Support block. As another example, KidAd repeatedly (starting here) tried to nominate Ashley Feinberg, a journalist who often reports on politics, for CSD despite multiple editors declining, and failing that, nominated to AfD saying that perhaps the journalist would one day be notable if she ends up publishing this generation's equivalent of the Pentagon Papers (here, for anyone unfamiliar). I don't know whether overlooking their own invocation of the political involvement reveals bad faith or a major WP:CIR issue, but if the bottom line is that an editor continually tests the limits of their topic ban, the TBAN isn't working to prevent disruption. That AfD alone has wasted the time of ten editors--eight ivoters unanimously voting keep and two more who helped get it listed properly. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:31, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

    Question by Beyond My Ken

    @KidAd: Please explain what the phrase "Broadly construed" means to you. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:18, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

    Never mind, I just read the egregious Wikilawyering on his talk page. I am no longer interested in this matter. Appeal should obviously be denied. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:25, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 2)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by KidAd

    Please note that this appeal was heavily edited by KidAd after it was copied here. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC) Related:

    --Guy Macon (talk) 19:54, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

    • To present just one example, KidAd edited Markos Kounalakis, the biography of a person who is a political scientist and foreign policy analyst, who is the president and publisher emeritus of the well known political magazine Washington Monthly and who co-hosted a radio show about politics, and who has helped establish chairs in politics and democracy at two major universities. KidAd's argument that editing this biography is not a violation of their topic ban on post-1932 politics broadly construed is disingenuous and laughable. The block should stand. Cullen Let's discuss it 20:10, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
    • As I said one his talk page (and he agreed to do), "Don't be that person who stands right on the line he isn't allowed to cross with his toes across the line. Stay a mile away from the line you cannot cross. Make it so that if anyone accuses you of violating your topic ban the unanimous opinion will be that they are crazy." --Guy Macon (talk) 03:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by KidAd

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • No opinion either way on the block, but noting as the block was for an AE TBAN violation, I felt it makes sense for it to come here. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
    • Sorry, but I don't buy the idea that the partners of high-profile political figures aren't covered under your TBAN, especially when your arguing about their official title. As an example, I'm pretty sure edits to Melania Trump or Michelle Obama would be covered under a post-1932 politics ban. Definitely within the scope of the sanctioning admin's discretion, so I'd uphold. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 20:15, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
    • I would decline the appeal. While a first spouse can be notable for reasons unrelated to that position, the edits (example) by KidAd related to that position and therefore to the person's quality as a political figure. Sandstein 22:12, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm sure there is a grey area here, between political journalists and journalists who occasionally cover politics; between activist authors and authors who sometimes comment on politics; and between edits to the biography of California's first related to her role as first lady and edits related to the rest of her life. None of the edits presented in the second ANI linked above fall into this grey area. They are all either on subjects that are squarely political or are about aspects of the subject that are obviously political. I would decline the appeal. If KidAd seriously contends that the title of the first lady is not a political topic then we are probably moving into CIR territory, but I would still let this block play out. GoldenRing (talk) 08:36, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
    • This was not an accidental transgressions into a grey area, it was multiple instances of editing subjects squarely within the topic ban and then trying to wikilawyer about it; and then there is the edit warring over the speedy deletion tag at Ashley Feinberg. This was a good block that I endorse. Thryduulf (talk) 11:22, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
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